The section of the Western Kentucky Parkway between the Pennyrile (I-69) and the Natcher (I-165) is going to be designated as I-569. (Link) (https://surfky.com/index.php/muhlenberg/news-muhlenberg/146305-section-of-wendell-ford-western-ky-pkwy-designated-as-i-69-corridor)
Not sure why they don't extend this all the way to I-65.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 18, 2019, 03:35:59 PM
The section of the Western Kentucky Parkway between the Pennyrile (I-69) and the Natcher (I-165) is going to be designated as I-569. (Link) (https://surfky.com/index.php/muhlenberg/news-muhlenberg/146305-section-of-wendell-ford-western-ky-pkwy-designated-as-i-69-corridor)
Not sure why they don't extend this all the way to I-65.
interesting, Does Kentucky plan on turning all of their parkways into interstates?
Quote from: hbelkins on December 18, 2019, 03:35:59 PMNot sure why they don't extend this all the way to I-65.
Because it makes too much sense for those that pushed for this. Any money spent on I-569 signs would be wasted unless it extends to I-65, IMO.
Or they could just sign it as I-66 to I-165 :spin:
Make it I-769 instead so you don't have a 569/65 junction.
Could just make it I-71...(I do not take credit for this idea...have read it on the forums here, probably Fictional)
Wasn't this I-369?
With 65, 69, 165, 169, 369, 569 all in close proximity I could see some confusion there.
I always thought a 2di might work there especially if they wanted to finish the gap in the Blue Grass and put it on that. Lots of free numbers on that part of the grid.
Oh well, there goes that I-60 idea, right out the window!
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 18, 2019, 10:53:42 PM
Or they could just sign it as I-66 to I-165 :spin:
IIRC, the Cumberland and Hal Rogers Parkways were once proposed as I-66; of course, that one is now dead.
Never did like use of names by Kentucky. Hard to put on maps, paper or electronic. While coming up with a dozen 3di numbers is overdoing it, they all should just pick up the number of the nearest US or state route.
I advocated for the entire WK-BG corridor to become I-58 years ago on MTR.
Two things I thought about later concerning this. Because this will connect two interstates, I-69 and the newly-minted I-165, it should have an even first number instead of an odd first number. This should be I-269 instead of I-569. And, I wonder if this route becoming an interstate will endanger the travel plaza located in the median at Beaver Dam? I know these are not allowed on free interstates, only toll roads. Would it be grandfathered in? It was closed for awhile and public outcry hastened its reopening.
Wouldn't the highway have to be substantially upgraded to meet Interstate standards?
^ I thought that was the reason there would be no interstate designation for the eastern portion of the WK Parkway near Elizabethtown. The medians are basically raised curbs that are mountable.
I'm just wondering if KYTC will sign I-569 as a N/S route, even though it clearly goes E/W.
After all, according to NCDOT, all 3-dis whose parents are N/S interstates MUST be signed N/S, even when the road clearly goes E/W (their logic for I-587 :banghead:).
Quote from: PastTense on December 19, 2019, 12:20:26 PM
Wouldn't the highway have to be substantially upgraded to meet Interstate standards?
The other ones needed some upgrades. Now that you mention it, I wonder if that's part of the reason for only going to I-165.
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 19, 2019, 12:16:07 AM
Could just make it I-71...(I do not take credit for this idea...have read it on the forums here, probably Fictional)
That makes way too much sense. Would have been perfect as part of the I-71 corridor. But I'm guessing that designating part of it as I-569 was the very quick way to do it, and obviously McConnell is cynically trying to make it appear as if he's actually lifting a finger to help his state in an election year. I-569 looks pretty pointless in its proposed state. It's just cheap pork.
Quote from: Verlanka on December 19, 2019, 05:14:46 AM
Quote from: Interstate 69 Fan on December 19, 2019, 01:15:01 AM
Wasn't this I-369?
No, that would be the Audubon Parkway.
I had the same question when HB posted about it on FB. It was previously referenced as Interstate 369, but I guess that number was never made formal. I typed up a page (https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-369-ky/) for it nonetheless on interstate-guide (guess I'll be amending that).
This also reminds me how the Natcher Parkway was previously referenced as future Interstate 565, but ultimately designated as I-165.
Legislation Introduced to Designate I-369 Spur in Muhl., Ohio Counties (https://www.surfky.com/index.php/webster/179-news/kentucky/138548-legislation-introduced-to-designate-i-369-spur-in-muhl-ohio-counties)
QuoteWESTERN KENTUCKY (4/3/19) – U.S. Rep. James Comer and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell today introduced companion legislation to begin the process of designating a section of the Wendell H. Ford Western Kentucky Parkway in Muhlenberg and Ohio counties as a spur of Interstate 69 (I-369).
Why not all the way to Lexington. It's a metro area and ends at US 60 a 4 lane that is probably an NHS route?
It must be the road is not up to Interstate standard east of 165?
I think the Louie B. Nunn Parkway should be made an Interstate. Somerset is not that small of a town for being in such an otherwise rural area. Isn't that parkway up to Interstate standards already?
Quote from: SP Cook on December 19, 2019, 11:48:11 AMNever did like use of names by Kentucky.
I was OK with parkway names until KY decided to change most of them. If drivers are going to be confused, they might as well go ahead with a bunch of similar-sounding highway numbers.
Is Kentucky still thinking about putting a loop or spur in Western KY to include Murray, KY? If so, that would take another number off the list.
Quote from: seicer on December 19, 2019, 12:29:23 PM
^ I thought that was the reason there would be no interstate designation for the eastern portion of the WK Parkway near Elizabethtown. The medians are basically raised curbs that are mountable.
That has mostly been converted to a level or recessed median as pavement rehab projects have been done over the years. I noted that years ago, but can't recall seeing many places where that old median is left the way it was. I'd have to take a tour via the KYTC photolog to confirm, though.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on December 21, 2019, 02:06:26 PM
Is Kentucky still thinking about putting a loop or spur in Western KY to include Murray, KY? If so, that would take another number off the list.
That would be news to me. although improvements to US 641 and the completion of the KY 80 corridor from Mayfield to Murray should eliminate the need for an interstate.
Quote from: Alex on December 20, 2019, 02:17:29 PM
Quote from: Verlanka on December 19, 2019, 05:14:46 AM
Quote from: Interstate 69 Fan on December 19, 2019, 01:15:01 AM
Wasn't this I-369?
No, that would be the Audubon Parkway.
I had the same question when HB posted about it on FB. It was previously referenced as Interstate 369, but I guess that number was never made formal. I typed up a page (https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-369-ky/) for it nonetheless on interstate-guide (guess I'll be amending that).
This also reminds me how the Natcher Parkway was previously referenced as future Interstate 565, but ultimately designated as I-165.
Legislation Introduced to Designate I-369 Spur in Muhl., Ohio Counties (https://www.surfky.com/index.php/webster/179-news/kentucky/138548-legislation-introduced-to-designate-i-369-spur-in-muhl-ohio-counties)
QuoteWESTERN KENTUCKY (4/3/19) – U.S. Rep. James Comer and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell today introduced companion legislation to begin the process of designating a section of the Wendell H. Ford Western Kentucky Parkway in Muhlenberg and Ohio counties as a spur of Interstate 69 (I-369).
The "Future I-69 Spur" signs have been gone from the Audubon for several years. I can't get a good answer from anyone as to why.
Of course they had to sneak "Open for Business" in there.
So... is this portion of the Western Kentucky Parkway going to be I-569 or I-369? There have been articles alleging both now. If it's going to be I-369, the thread title should probably be updated.
Quote from: vdeane on December 22, 2019, 06:29:53 PM
So... is this portion of the Western Kentucky Parkway going to be I-569 or I-369? There have been articles alleging both now. If it's going to be I-369, the thread title should probably be updated.
The original story said 569, but looks like it's since been edited to say 369.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 22, 2019, 07:31:19 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 22, 2019, 06:29:53 PM
So... is this portion of the Western Kentucky Parkway going to be I-569 or I-369? There have been articles alleging both now. If it's going to be I-369, the thread title should probably be updated.
The original story said 569, but looks like it's since been edited to say 369.
Actually, I clicked on the link Alex provided instead of the original link I referenced.
Quote
MUHLENBERG/OHIO COUNTY, Ky. (12/17/19) – U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) announced today that he secured legislation in the fiscal year 2020 government-funding agreement to begin the process of designating a section of the Wendell H. Ford Western Kentucky Parkway in Muhlenberg and Ohio counties as a spur of Interstate 69 (I-569).
The government funding bills were approved today by the House of Representatives and the Senate is expected to approve them in the coming days, according to a press release. Once approved, the government-funding agreement will be sent to Pres. Donald Trump for his signature.
In April, Majority Leader McConnell and Congressman James Comer (KY-01) introduced companion legislation for the new designation, which will highlight the region's connections with the federal interstate highway system and aid in attracting new industry and economic development to the area, McConnel reports. The McConnell/Comer legislation will add this section of road to the list of "High Priority Corridors," and once the designation is official at the state and federal levels, the road will be labeled as I-569. Additionally, this legislation provides an exemption to the federal weight limit on the Edward T. Breathitt Pennyrile Parkway.
I'd number the Western Kentucky Parkway Interstate 369 (from 69 and 169 all the way to Interstate 65), and save the 569 designation for the Audubon Parkway. Actually, I would have preferred the WKP be numbered Interstate 269, but then again, I have no say in the matter.
I could see it as an interm thing, having it end at 165. the eastern end of it may not be up to snuff just yet, and having the x65 and x69 system converted over to interstates from parkways may be a higher priority, having lower miles for the WK Parkway to be 569/369 on paper sounds better to people who don't wanna spend highway money.
Quote from: vdeane on December 22, 2019, 06:29:53 PM
So... is this portion of the Western Kentucky Parkway going to be I-569 or I-369? There have been articles alleging both now. If it's going to be I-369, the thread title should probably be updated.
I live in Raleigh-Durham NC, where we get grief on the Forum all the time saying that I-540 should be I-640 since it connects two interstates (I-40 west to I-87 east). Shouldn't/couldn't this WKP section get a designation starting with an even number for the same reason?
Proposed I-569 would serve as a spur of I-69, even though it would terminate at another Interstate (I-169 , also a spur). I think an odd prefix would be fine for this road. I am not aware of a rule that says that odd 3di's can't terminate at another interstate, only that they are usually spurs or relatively short branches.
IMO, should just make the entire Western Kentucky Parkway, a small overlap with I-65, and the Bluegrass Parkway, then extend it to I-64, a single 2D route, such as I-56. It would be about 182 miles long.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 23, 2019, 09:16:59 PM
IMO, should just make the entire Western Kentucky Parkway, a small overlap with I-65, and the Bluegrass Parkway, then extend it to I-64, a single 2D route, such as I-56. It would be about 182 miles long.
Cause everyone loves intrastate 2DIs
I'm doubling down on the 69-65 remainder segment of the Western KY Pkwy becoming extended I-71
If the Bluegrass can ever be extended to I-64 or I-75 at or near Lexington, I nominate it for I-171. Could it be an (odd)DI like 171 not ending on the Interstate system on both ends? Sure! And it would be a Spur from I-65, I-71, Fort Knox, and Elizabethtown to the Frankfort and Lexington areas - legitimate. It just ends so relatively close to 64 and 75 in Lexington. And yes, I understand there are issues with the land around the east end of the Bluegrass...right in Horse Country. Hence why the Bluegrass ends where it does.
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on December 23, 2019, 08:52:58 PM
I am not aware of a rule that says that odd 3di's can't terminate at another interstate, only that they are usually spurs or relatively short branches.
Rules...more like Guidelines anyway. Plenty of previous threads discussing Even vs Odd 3DI Numbering Theory and Practice around these forums
I vote US 62. :rolleyes:
This is what happens when political weasels stick their noses (and other protrusions) into matters such as highway designation -- good ideas like a I-71 extension (logical as a "veer-off" from I-69) don't see the light of day. Not that McConnell gives a shit about anything besides covering his ass in an election year -- but the timing of this seems at best gratuitous. Obviously KY folks didn't learn anything from the TX (I-69 and siblings) clusterfuck!
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2019, 03:37:32 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 18, 2019, 03:35:59 PM
The section of the Western Kentucky Parkway between the Pennyrile (I-69) and the Natcher (I-165) is going to be designated as I-569. (Link) (https://surfky.com/index.php/muhlenberg/news-muhlenberg/146305-section-of-wendell-ford-western-ky-pkwy-designated-as-i-69-corridor)
Not sure why they don't extend this all the way to I-65.
interesting, Does Kentucky plan on turning all of their parkways into interstates?
I was thinking the same thing with the Audubon planned to become I-369 that only leaves the Bluegrass, Cumberland and Mountain parkways left that aren't interstates. The Hal Rodgers doesn't count since it's only 2 lanes. As mentioned before I like the I-56 idea there are no even numbered interstates as of yet in the 50's this would be the first one.
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2019, 03:37:32 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 18, 2019, 03:35:59 PM
The section of the Western Kentucky Parkway between the Pennyrile (I-69) and the Natcher (I-165) is going to be designated as I-569. (Link) (https://surfky.com/index.php/muhlenberg/news-muhlenberg/146305-section-of-wendell-ford-western-ky-pkwy-designated-as-i-69-corridor)
Not sure why they don't extend this all the way to I-65.
interesting, Does Kentucky plan on turning all of their parkways into interstates?
I doubt very seriously if there will ever be a move to turn the Mountain Parkway into an interstate, even after the four-laning is completed all the way to Salyersville.
The Kentucky Parkway system looks like the earliest state post interstate plan and it seems to have been completed. Am I right hbelkins?
I vote I 56 all the way to Lexington.
Quote from: ilpt4u on December 23, 2019, 09:42:46 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 23, 2019, 09:16:59 PM
IMO, should just make the entire Western Kentucky Parkway, a small overlap with I-65, and the Bluegrass Parkway, then extend it to I-64, a single 2D route, such as I-56. It would be about 182 miles long.
Cause everyone loves intrastate 2DIs
I'm doubling down on the 69-65 remainder segment of the Western KY Pkwy becoming extended I-71
If the Bluegrass can ever be extended to I-64 or I-75 at or near Lexington, I nominate it for I-171. Could it be an (odd)DI like 171 not ending on the Interstate system on both ends? Sure! And it would be a Spur from I-65, I-71, Fort Knox, and Elizabethtown to the Frankfort and Lexington areas - legitimate. It just ends so relatively close to 64 and 75 in Lexington. And yes, I understand there are issues with the land around the east end of the Bluegrass...right in Horse Country. Hence why the Bluegrass ends where it does.
I'll raise you extending I-71 all the way to I-24 just south of Hopkinsville. The irony is that the Pennyrile/I-569/WK/I-65/I-71 route actually is already the fastest route between Hopkinsville and Cleveland.
Even though Paducah would not actually be on I-71, it would be the likely control city on a good part of I-71.
Quote from: tidecat on December 30, 2019, 10:56:27 PM
I'll raise you extending I-71 all the way to I-24 just south of Hopkinsville. The irony is that the Pennyrile/I-569/WK/I-65/I-71 route actually is already the fastest route between Hopkinsville and Cleveland.
Even though Paducah would not actually be on I-71, it would be the likely control city on a good part of I-71.
That would introduce one more Interstate "Bump" which some around these parts aren't fans of (IDOT clearly does not mind, as IL has two of the glorious Interstate Bumps). I would use Memphis as the Control over Paducah on "that" I-71, along the Western KY Parkway (assuming Tennessee gets I-69 actually built to Memphis), going by the same reasoning that IL uses Memphis for I-57, not Sikeston
Fictional: The Pennyrile has a future as I-41. That Future may be 50 years from now, but I-41 will make it out of Wisconsin, some day...
I like the Pennyrile Parkway freeway (and whatever "Interstate" designation the rest of it may be given, some day) being extended into Tennessee and leading directly into the current western end of I-840 at I-40 west of Nashville. Would potentially have a similar effect that I-74 and I-39 do for Chicago -- a Long Distance Bypass of the Urban Area that would probably pull at least some Long Distance Truck (and car) Traffic away from I-65 and I-24 in Downtown Nashville. Also increases Interstate Access (and more Direct) for Fort Campell
Because that is my Vision for the remaining Southern Section of the Pennyrile, I would not endorse that for an I-71 extension. It is a legitimate idea, tho - as good as I-569 anyway!
Count me is as 71.
Those wanting I-71 here, would you sign it north-south or east-west?
Quote from: Buck87 on December 31, 2019, 10:42:31 AM
Those wanting I-71 here, would you sign it north-south or east-west?
Since it'll be a more or less diagonal extension of the existing I-71 in KY, it should retain the N-S bannering. Don't need to pull a I-69 at Lansing move and change it mid-stream -- besides, as a functional "branch-off" of I-69 (if indeed deployed as such), the N-S description is certainly appropriate.
Just establish a Paducah-to-Lexington Interstate already. Nearly all of it is already built.
What are the traffic counts from TH to Lexington?
I must correct myself. Checked Rand McNally from 1961 and 2. No Parkways in 61 but Western and Mountain are in 62 as proposed or under construction like most of the Interstates at the time.
Also interesting is I 24. It's in 61 as proposed in Kentucky but not Tennessee or Illinois.Then in 62 it is gone. I know Illinois didn't pick a route until the mid sixties.
Quote from: 3467 on December 30, 2019, 09:49:49 PM
The Kentucky Parkway system looks like the earliest state post interstate plan and it seems to have been completed. Am I right hbelkins?
I vote I 56 all the way to Lexington.
It has been completed, and I certainly don't anticipate any more toll freeways being built in the state.
Governors added routes to the plans as the toll construction progressed. Bert Combs proposed the Mountain Parkway to reach his adopted hometown of Prestonsburg. Louie Nunn, a Republican island in a sea of Democrats, proposed the Cumberland and Daniel Boone parkways to reach into traditionally Republican areas of the state (what's known as the "Old 5th" congressional district back when Kentucky had seven districts.) I honestly don't know why the Pennyrile was never originally finished all the way to I-24 and it took decades to complete it. IIRC, the Pennyrile was completed before I-24 was, so the logical ending point was Alt. US 41. A lot of other connector routes were built as the interstates were (such as KY 32 in Morehead, KY 36 in Owingsville, KY 2 in Olive Hill) so a link to the Pennyrile could have been built then.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 31, 2019, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: 3467 on December 30, 2019, 09:49:49 PM
The Kentucky Parkway system looks like the earliest state post interstate plan and it seems to have been completed. Am I right hbelkins?
I vote I 56 all the way to Lexington.
It has been completed, and I certainly don't anticipate any more toll freeways being built in the state.
I thought there was a branch off the Mountain Parkway near Campton that was cancelled?
Given the number of cancelled freeway corridors around Louisville and Lexington, it seems odd that there weren't more proposed and cancelled parkway corridors.
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 31, 2019, 11:03:25 PM
I thought there was a branch off the Mountain Parkway near Campton that was cancelled?
My 1964 Rand McNally Road Atlas (the one with the vinyl cover that smelled nice) has a branch from Campton to Hazard marked as proposed. In fact, a tiny stretch of it was marked as under construction, so I don't know what became of that.
Quote from: bandit957 on December 31, 2019, 12:05:53 PM
Just establish a Paducah-to-Lexington Interstate already. Nearly all of it is already built.
My understanding is that any extension of the Bluegrass Parkway to connect to I-64 (or to KY 4) is politically problematic because it would involve taking land from farms where some prize-winning horses get bred. Which the state isn't going to do because of that whole Kentucky Derby thing.
Quote from: Duke87 on January 01, 2020, 01:43:14 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on December 31, 2019, 12:05:53 PM
Just establish a Paducah-to-Lexington Interstate already. Nearly all of it is already built.
My understanding is that any extension of the Bluegrass Parkway to connect to I-64 (or to KY 4) is politically problematic because it would involve taking land from farms where some prize-winning horses get bred. Which the state isn't going to do because of that whole Kentucky Derby thing.
If I recall correctly from numerous previous discussions of this issue, it seems that any potential extension -- even those more indirect, such as a southern bypass of Lexington, all have severe NIMBY issues -- the "direct trajectory" route to I-64 and/or I-75 simply being the most longstanding of the bunch. A southern bypass of Lexington itself would have similar problems -- plowing through costly "high-end" housing in large plots being the most prominent of these. It's been suggested that the only feasible -- in both political and logistical senses -- would be a N-S connection using an upgrade of US 127 north from the Bluegrass to I-64 at Frankfort. Such would get the job done, albeit indirectly.
If a connection were to be established, then a new even 2di number from the available
unused pool in the 50's (personally I'd select 56) would be appropriate for the whole "shooting match" from I-69 to Frankfort. Nevertheless, my preference for an I-71 extension west of I-65 is predicated upon such a connection
not being done -- or even considered.
Quote from: Duke87 on January 01, 2020, 01:43:14 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on December 31, 2019, 12:05:53 PM
Just establish a Paducah-to-Lexington Interstate already. Nearly all of it is already built.
My understanding is that any extension of the Bluegrass Parkway to connect to I-64 (or to KY 4) is politically problematic because it would involve taking land from farms where some prize-winning horses get bred. Which the state isn't going to do because of that whole Kentucky Derby thing.
It already gets close enough to Lexington that can't they number it now?
Under the new rules for Interstate numbers I suspect it could be renumbered.I think it has to end at an NBA route .
Quote from: hbelkins on December 31, 2019, 06:50:03 PM
I honestly don't know why the Pennyrile was never originally finished all the way to I-24 and it took decades to complete it. IIRC, the Pennyrile was completed before I-24 was, so the logical ending point was Alt. US 41. A lot of other connector routes were built as the interstates were (such as KY 32 in Morehead, KY 36 in Owingsville, KY 2 in Olive Hill) so a link to the Pennyrile could have been built then.
Correct. I believe the Pennyrile was opened around '69, and 24 was in the mid-late 70's. I can remember several trips to Nashville taking the Pennyrile to Hoptown, and then one of the 41 routes.
As someone who has driven that route countless times in the last 50 years, I too am at a loss on why it took so long to extend it. For me, what is even more illogical is the north end in Henderson. In the 60's, KY spent millions adding a second bridge over the Ohio, and 80 miles of nice limited-access parkway, yet left the two connected by a 3 mile street. Had they just finished it back then, we may not have to be building a 2nd bridge for 69.
Quote from: Captain Jack on January 01, 2020, 11:28:27 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 31, 2019, 06:50:03 PM
I honestly don't know why the Pennyrile was never originally finished all the way to I-24 and it took decades to complete it. IIRC, the Pennyrile was completed before I-24 was, so the logical ending point was Alt. US 41. A lot of other connector routes were built as the interstates were (such as KY 32 in Morehead, KY 36 in Owingsville, KY 2 in Olive Hill) so a link to the Pennyrile could have been built then.
Correct. I believe the Pennyrile was opened around '69, and 24 was in the mid-late 70's. I can remember several trips to Nashville taking the Pennyrile to Hoptown, and then one of the 41 routes.
I remain one of those that believes I-71 would serve as a better label for the remaining Western KY Parkway to I-65, whether they branch it down the Pennyrile to I-24, twin it with I-69 and then rename I-155 to I-71, or simply end it at the Pennyrile.
As someone who has driven that route countless times in the last 50 years, I too am at a loss on why it took so long to extend it. For me, what is even more illogical is the north end in Henderson. In the 60's, KY spent millions adding a second bridge over the Ohio, and 80 miles of nice limited-access parkway, yet left the two connected by a 3 mile street. Had they just finished it back then, we may not have to be building a 2nd bridge for 69.
That gave Henderson their unofficial Breezewood for those years, although they are not inclined to fighting the bridge and bypass as those in PA are for getting a direct I-70 to I-70 connection.
This is only one digit away from my imagined designation for the Western Kentucky Pkwy, I-56. So I'm okay with this :bigass:
Quote from: 3467 on January 01, 2020, 10:47:00 AM
Under the new rules for Interstate numbers I suspect it could be renumbered.I think it has to end at an NBA route .
Gee, I didn't know Lexington had gotten an NBA franchise! :) Actually, the rules call for an Interstate to end at a
NHS-designated facility.
Quote from: bandit957 on December 31, 2019, 11:22:07 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 31, 2019, 11:03:25 PM
I thought there was a branch off the Mountain Parkway near Campton that was cancelled?
My 1964 Rand McNally Road Atlas (the one with the vinyl cover that smelled nice) has a branch from Campton to Hazard marked as proposed. In fact, a tiny stretch of it was marked as under construction, so I don't know what became of that.
It's KY 15. I suspect that APD funds may have been used in its construction, as it's designated as Corridor I. For years, locals in Jackson referred to it as "the Parkway" and there were a number of businesses that had "Parkway" in their names.
Quote from: sparker on January 01, 2020, 04:08:30 PM
Actually, the rules call for an Interstate to end at a NHS-designated facility.
From https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/nhs_maps/kentucky/ky_kentucky.pdf (https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/nhs_maps/kentucky/ky_kentucky.pdf), it looks like the Bluegrass Parkway would meet this criteria.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 01, 2020, 05:54:37 PM
It's KY 15. I suspect that APD funds may have been used in its construction, as it's designated as Corridor I. For years, locals in Jackson referred to it as "the Parkway" and there were a number of businesses that had "Parkway" in their names.
Looks like a bypass of Jackson is (was?) under consideration still though, based on the western KY 15/KY 30 intersection. (https://goo.gl/maps/B2pEa2MWCuJGm4M69)
Quote from: bandit957 on January 01, 2020, 10:16:01 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on January 01, 2020, 01:43:14 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on December 31, 2019, 12:05:53 PM
Just establish a Paducah-to-Lexington Interstate already. Nearly all of it is already built.
My understanding is that any extension of the Bluegrass Parkway to connect to I-64 (or to KY 4) is politically problematic because it would involve taking land from farms where some prize-winning horses get bred. Which the state isn't going to do because of that whole Kentucky Derby thing.
It already gets close enough to Lexington that can't they number it now?
While
technically they could (it doesn't violate any specific rules), I would argue that numbering the Bluegrass as an interstate without building a connection northeast to the interstate system is bad for a system point of view. It would basically be a giant Breezewood. I prefer to look at interstate designation from a systemic POV, not a corridor-based one.
I think my autocorrect was having a premonition about David Stern.
It really wouldn't be a Breezewood because say I 56 would come to an end and you would take the arterial to 64. It would not be a break in the middle of the same interstate.
Quote from: 3467 on January 01, 2020, 09:32:14 PM
I think my autocorrect was having a premonition about David Stern.
It really wouldn't be a Breezewood because say I 56 would come to an end and you would take the arterial to 64. It would not be a break in the middle of the same interstate.
But it would still serve as an example of the inability of the agencies tasked with planning and deploying efficient systems to come up with a solution that would provide that necessary connection rather than throwing up their hands in defeat --
for close to a half-century at this point!. The gap would effectively be a monument to NIMBYism at its most virulent. The Bluegrass and the agencies charged with its existence & upkeep don't deserve a trunk Interstate designation until they can grit their teeth and formulate some sort of freeway connection to I-64 and/or I-75. A 3di of I-65 (the long-missing I-365?) would be more appropriate until the connection was a reality.
Cannot disagree with that .NIMBY ism is the reason we might as well give them a 2di. There are not going to be many more built anyway. Might as well use the number.
Quote from: 3467 on January 01, 2020, 09:32:14 PM
I think my autocorrect was having a premonition about David Stern.
It really wouldn't be a Breezewood because say I 56 would come to an end and you would take the arterial to 64. It would not be a break in the middle of the same interstate.
You're thinking from a corridor/interchange perspective, not a system one. That lack of a connection is a problem from a system level. Think of cities as nodes and interstates as links. If you're traveling north on I-65 and looking to head east on I-64, navigating "old school", with some system familiarity but not a ton, you might see "I-5x East, Lexington" and think "I-64 goes through Lexington too, this looks like a nice shortcut" and then get stuck on 15 miles of arterial highway, not realizing that you should have gone up to Louisville for anything on I-64. Interstates are supposed to be useful as a
system, not just a random collection of corridors that happen to have a specific shield. The Bluegrass isn't useful from a system POV, so IMO it should not be an interstate unless it becomes useful in that respect.
Not to mention that it's extraordinarily inelegant as-is.
I would support making the entire WKY Interstate 569, but keep the Bluegrass Parkway with its existing (secret) KY 9002 designation. As for those parkways that have become Interstates, I would have preferred that the roads also kept their pre-Interstate parkways names, even after becoming Interstates.
Quote from: vdeane on January 02, 2020, 01:50:40 PM
Quote from: 3467 on January 01, 2020, 09:32:14 PM
I think my autocorrect was having a premonition about David Stern.
It really wouldn't be a Breezewood because say I 56 would come to an end and you would take the arterial to 64. It would not be a break in the middle of the same interstate.
You're thinking from a corridor/interchange perspective, not a system one. That lack of a connection is a problem from a system level. Think of cities as nodes and interstates as links. If you're traveling north on I-65 and looking to head east on I-64, navigating "old school", with some system familiarity but not a ton, you might see "I-5x East, Lexington" and think "I-64 goes through Lexington too, this looks like a nice shortcut" and then get stuck on 15 miles of arterial highway, not realizing that you should have gone up to Louisville for anything on I-64. Interstates are supposed to be useful as a system, not just a random collection of corridors that happen to have a specific shield. The Bluegrass isn't useful from a system POV, so IMO it should not be an interstate unless it becomes useful in that respect.
Not to mention that it's extraordinarily inelegant as-is.
In most cases the Bluegrass is the superior alternative to taking I-64 for traffic from Elizabethtown and points south. You may have 15 non-freeway miles taking the Parkway, but it beats 31 miles on I-65, and another 15 miles on I-265 just to get to I-64.
That said, I would not give it a 2 digit interstate designation unless if it connects to I-75.
Quote from: tidecat on January 02, 2020, 10:02:51 PM
In most cases the Bluegrass is the superior alternative to taking I-64 for traffic from Elizabethtown and points south. You may have 15 non-freeway miles taking the Parkway, but it beats 31 miles on I-65, and another 15 miles on I-265 just to get to I-64.
That said, I would not give it a 2 digit interstate designation unless if it connects to I-75.
An (odd)3DI I think could still be appropriate for the Bluegrass. If the rest of the Western KY were to become I-71 instead of I-569 I'd be a fan of making the Bluegrass I-171
I might even be in favor of continuing this I-569 designation on the Bluegrass, approaching the Lexington and Frankfurt areas. Its already odd, and it Spurs to I-69 on one end and the Capital and one of the Larger Metro Areas in KY on the other
The flyover ramp that was built a few years ago from eastbound US 60 to northbound KY 4 (New Circle Road) helps with the flow of traffic from the BG to I-64, and the improvements that are being made at the KY 4/KY 922 (Newtown Pike) interchange to renovate that antiquated cloverleaf should help as well, but there are a bunch of traffic lights along KY 922, and a short merge area onto southbound 75/eastbound 64 (but I understand that some work is planned to alleviate that). You actually encounter fewer signals by taking KY 4 to US 27/68, but again, there's a short merge area onto the interstate plus a shorter acceleration area due to the folded diamond design of the interchange.
Plus, when Keeneland is in session for spring and fall meets, traffic is a nightmare around the airport on US 60. I've taken to avoiding Keeneland traffic and afternoon Lexington rush hour when necessary by using US 127 from Lawrenceburg up to Frankfort.
The state really messed up by not pursuing the extension on to I-64 somewhere in Scott County back in the 1960s, and now that land has become prohibitively expensive and the NIMBYs are entrenched (especially in Woodford County) so an extension will never happen.
Someone upthread mentioned a southern bypass. The state has proposed building a link from US 27 near Nicholasville, with a new Kentucky River crossing, to connect with I-75 near Exit 95 in Madison County. The NIMBYs are opposed to this as well. The typical arguments about "sprawl" come up. Those fears could be allayed with local zoning and strict access control on the new route.
^^^^^^^^^^
Forgive me for both harping on this and/or indulging in something a tad fictional, but an upgrade of US 127 north from the Bluegrass to I-64 south of Frankfort seems the most feasible way to effect a connection. We all know a slash through horse country between Frankfort & Lexington's not going to happen; likewise a southern Lexington bypass through pricey exurban property. Not much else left; there's too much commercial development along US 60 for an overlay or adjacent ROW. A northward 127 jog certainly wouldn't be the most efficient -- but, then, that ship has long sailed!
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 02, 2020, 05:19:22 PM
I would support making the entire WKY Interstate 569, but keep the Bluegrass Parkway with its existing (secret) KY 9002 designation. As for those parkways that have become Interstates, I would have preferred that the roads also kept their pre-Interstate parkways names, even after becoming Interstates.
I-165 has several green signs designating it as the "William H. Natcher Expressway." They wouldn't be able to do that with the Wendell H. Ford Western Kentucky Parkway because the "Wendell H. Ford Expressway" already exists around Owensboro. They could, however, name it the "Wendell H. Ford Freeway" if they wanted.
^
Why not just continue to call it a "Parkway"? I see no issues with that.
Quote from: sparker on January 03, 2020, 07:06:11 PM
^^^^^^^^^^
Forgive me for both harping on this and/or indulging in something a tad fictional, but an upgrade of US 127 north from the Bluegrass to I-64 south of Frankfort seems the most feasible way to effect a connection. We all know a slash through horse country between Frankfort & Lexington's not going to happen; likewise a southern Lexington bypass through pricey exurban property. Not much else left; there's too much commercial development along US 60 for an overlay or adjacent ROW. A northward 127 jog certainly wouldn't be the most efficient -- but, then, that ship has long sailed!
Right. I think there are signs directing people to use US 127 as a connector to I-64, so it's not that big of a deal already. Connecting the Bluegrass Parkway to I-64 is just adding a very expensive redundant route at this point given that it cannot be feasibly extended as the financial and popular support just isn't there. Heck, even a four-lane northwest bypass of Versailles (itself an overkill) was shot down very early on for the same reasons.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 03, 2020, 12:02:29 PM
The flyover ramp that was built a few years ago from eastbound US 60 to northbound KY 4 (New Circle Road) helps with the flow of traffic from the BG to I-64, and the improvements that are being made at the KY 4/KY 922 (Newtown Pike) interchange to renovate that antiquated cloverleaf should help as well, but there are a bunch of traffic lights along KY 922, and a short merge area onto southbound 75/eastbound 64 (but I understand that some work is planned to alleviate that). You actually encounter fewer signals by taking KY 4 to US 27/68, but again, there's a short merge area onto the interstate plus a shorter acceleration area due to the folded diamond design of the interchange.
Plus, when Keeneland is in session for spring and fall meets, traffic is a nightmare around the airport on US 60. I've taken to avoiding Keeneland traffic and afternoon Lexington rush hour when necessary by using US 127 from Lawrenceburg up to Frankfort.
The state really messed up by not pursuing the extension on to I-64 somewhere in Scott County back in the 1960s, and now that land has become prohibitively expensive and the NIMBYs are entrenched (especially in Woodford County) so an extension will never happen.
Someone upthread mentioned a southern bypass. The state has proposed building a link from US 27 near Nicholasville, with a new Kentucky River crossing, to connect with I-75 near Exit 95 in Madison County. The NIMBYs are opposed to this as well. The typical arguments about "sprawl" come up. Those fears could be allayed with local zoning and strict access control on the new route.
I agree that IF the Nicholasville-I75 connector is ever built, the "solution" to a 2 digit Bluegrass Pkwy-based interstate is to connect the Bluegrass to that proposed connector via KY 169 corridor. The KY 169 connector would be about the same mileage as a US 127 connector.
does kentucky really need any more interstates? i feel like all the new proposals for interstates are based on slim reasons through states that can barely afford to take care of what they already have. i-14 is a big version of this, no one seriously believes this interstate is needed, in texas barely, in miss? louisiana? alabama? hell no. alabama is too busy wasting all their money on that useless birmingham bypass at the moment.
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 05, 2020, 02:37:02 PM
does kentucky really need any more interstates? i feel like all the new proposals for interstates are based on slim reasons through states that can barely afford to take care of what they already have.
Kentucky's interstate highway proposals are simply overlaying the existing parkways which are designed to interstate standards. They are fully controlled access freeways that carry 70 mph speed limits, have 12 foot lanes, 10 foot shoulders, and divided by a 35 foot median. The only modifications that are needed are at select interchanges, which need improvements regardless of an interstate designation.
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 05, 2020, 02:37:02 PM
alabama is too busy wasting all their money on that useless birmingham bypass at the moment.
Alabama has put very little money into that loop... enough for an interchange and grading of a 2 mile stretch of the mainline.
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 05, 2020, 02:37:02 PM
does kentucky really need any more interstates? i feel like all the new proposals for interstates are based on slim reasons through states that can barely afford to take care of what they already have. i-14 is a big version of this, no one seriously believes this interstate is needed, in texas barely, in miss? louisiana? alabama? hell no. alabama is too busy wasting all their money on that useless birmingham bypass at the moment.
Need? I think you could argue need. Want, on the other hand, well, everyone "wants" to be on or near an Interstate, especially cities whose names start and end with O and rhyme with Nowensboro.
I think the WKP should be a southwestern extension of I-71, and truthfully, I'd replace the proposed I-169 with 71 as well. It makes sense on a map. Not much else really does.
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on January 05, 2020, 06:23:28 PM
I think the WKP should be a southwestern extension of I-71, and truthfully, I'd replace the proposed I-169 with 71 as well. It makes sense on a map. Not much else really does.
Except if they did that, they'd have to reconstruct the WK/Pennyrile interchange (again) to provide a through, high-speed connection for I-71, the way they did with I-24 and the Purchase. If two interstates (I-169/Pennyrile and I-569/WK) are terminating at I-69, then what's there now is fine.
Actually, I thought both cloverleafs were fine as they were for the I-69 extension, but apparently FHWA or KYTC, or both, thought differently.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 05, 2020, 07:14:49 PM
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on January 05, 2020, 06:23:28 PM
I think the WKP should be a southwestern extension of I-71, and truthfully, I'd replace the proposed I-169 with 71 as well. It makes sense on a map. Not much else really does.
Except if they did that, they'd have to reconstruct the WK/Pennyrile interchange (again) to provide a through, high-speed connection for I-71, the way they did with I-24 and the Purchase. If two interstates (I-169/Pennyrile and I-569/WK) are terminating at I-69, then what's there now is fine.
Actually, I thought both cloverleafs were fine as they were for the I-69 extension, but apparently FHWA or KYTC, or both, thought differently.
The extension of I-71 from Louisville south on I-65 and then taking over the WK makes a lot of sense, indeed. And makes most sense to end at that intersection with I-69, rather than running down I-169. Mitch McConnell could have fun if he had I-71 designated as an addition to the NAFTA highway connecting Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland (and taking I-90 to Buffalo and I-190 to Niagara Falls for a true NAFTA addition). Why not.
Then I-71 could "arise again" in Texas and take over I-69E. I-69C can drop the C, and I-69W can become I-67... Consecutive odd numbers that way makes for much better signage.
Quote from: sturmde on January 16, 2020, 11:34:30 PM
Then I-71 could "arise again" in Texas and take over I-69E. I-69C can drop the C, and I-69W can become I-67... Consecutive odd numbers that way makes for much better signage.
Since both the main TX-based backers
and TxDOT have long signed on to the suffixed-69 idiom, the chances of the above ever happening are slim and none -- and slim's left the building! The above plan is actually a halfway decent idea -- but with no chance of advancing beyond a fictional notion.
Quote from: sparker on January 17, 2020, 04:16:25 AM
Quote from: sturmde on January 16, 2020, 11:34:30 PM
Then I-71 could "arise again" in Texas and take over I-69E. I-69C can drop the C, and I-69W can become I-67... Consecutive odd numbers that way makes for much better signage.
Since both the main TX-based backers and TxDOT have long signed on to the suffixed-69 idiom, the chances of the above ever happening are slim and none -- and slim's left the building! The above plan is actually a halfway decent idea -- but with no chance of advancing beyond a fictional notion.
Yes, very true about Texas. However, 2-digit numbers carry a really higher status. Perhaps some federal funding thrown their way would encourage them. I suspect that is what it would take. Perhaps extra funding to extend I-14 east to I-69, even. That could also encourage Kentucky to extend the numbering of I-71.
Quote from: sturmde on January 23, 2020, 09:42:34 PM
Quote from: sparker on January 17, 2020, 04:16:25 AM
Quote from: sturmde on January 16, 2020, 11:34:30 PM
Then I-71 could "arise again" in Texas and take over I-69E. I-69C can drop the C, and I-69W can become I-67... Consecutive odd numbers that way makes for much better signage.
Since both the main TX-based backers and TxDOT have long signed on to the suffixed-69 idiom, the chances of the above ever happening are slim and none -- and slim's left the building! The above plan is actually a halfway decent idea -- but with no chance of advancing beyond a fictional notion.
Yes, very true about Texas. However, 2-digit numbers carry a really higher status. Perhaps some federal funding thrown their way would encourage them. I suspect that is what it would take. Perhaps extra funding to extend I-14 east to I-69, even. That could also encourage Kentucky to extend the numbering of I-71.
It's not likely that the current "Triangle" plans for I-14 will include an eastern extension past I-45 to I-69 for one simple reason: Lake Livingston, and the additional mileage and subsequent expense it would take to bypass it. The only thing that would prompt the expenditure for such a project would be a commitment by LA to build their portion of the corridor to at least Alexandria/I-49 -- and such certainly has not been forthcoming as of yet. But getting back to the KY issue: IMO the I-569 designation was short-sighted (possibly McConnell can't seem to give his undivided attention to in-state stuff right now! :cool:); extending I-71 down I-65 and then over the WKY to I-69 seems to be the most useful concept given that no one is seriously considering extending the Bluegrass. Let's hope someone sees the light before anything becomes written in stone (we've all seen how
that worked out in TX!)
Extending I-71 down the WK is a great idea. The biggest problem is the continuity issue of WK East to 65 North. You can't have people "exit" to stay on interstate which would currently be required and there isn't enough space in that congested area to do a flyover ramp and the geometry of the WK from the 31W Bypass to 65 is strange. It would also make Spaghetti Junction an even bigger sign cluster in Louisville.
Quote from: WKDAVE on January 24, 2020, 10:01:06 AM
Extending I-71 down the WK is a great idea. The biggest problem is the continuity issue of WK East to 65 North. You can't have people "exit" to stay on interstate which would currently be required and there isn't enough space in that congested area to do a flyover ramp and the geometry of the WK from the 31W Bypass to 65 is strange. It would also make Spaghetti Junction an even bigger sign cluster in Louisville.
For Louisville, I would change I-71's route to switch over to I-264 and then meet I-65 at Exit 131. I-264 could then complete the loop on I-71's old road. The way that the split is made back at that intersection, it would look natural. Of course you might have to do some revision at 264/65.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on January 24, 2020, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: WKDAVE on January 24, 2020, 10:01:06 AM
Extending I-71 down the WK is a great idea. The biggest problem is the continuity issue of WK East to 65 North. You can't have people "exit" to stay on interstate which would currently be required and there isn't enough space in that congested area to do a flyover ramp and the geometry of the WK from the 31W Bypass to 65 is strange. It would also make Spaghetti Junction an even bigger sign cluster in Louisville.
For Louisville, I would change I-71's route to switch over to I-264 and then meet I-65 at Exit 131. I-264 could then complete the loop on I-71's old road. The way that the split is made back at that intersection, it would look natural. Of course you might have to do some revision at 264/65.
Also would have to Christen a new 3DI for the orphaned bit of I-71 going to Downtown Louisville...but there are plenty of x64s, x65s, and x71s available...I would probably go with I-171, personally
Given the outer-outer bypass for Louisville is still under consideration, I wonder if I-71 would likely get thrown on that. I-171 would replace the orphaned part of I-71. Or we could go with a total heel move and make it I-66.
Quote from: WKDAVE on January 24, 2020, 10:01:06 AM
Extending I-71 down the WK is a great idea. The biggest problem is the continuity issue of WK East to 65 North. You can't have people "exit" to stay on interstate which would currently be required and there isn't enough space in that congested area to do a flyover ramp and the geometry of the WK from the 31W Bypass to 65 is strange. It would also make Spaghetti Junction an even bigger sign cluster in Louisville.
Anything's possible with the will and $$$ to get it done. And since KYTC was able to get the OK to convert the Natcher to 165 before rebuilding the old toll booth interchanges, surely they could get an I-71 designation done without converting the E-town interchange.