The US 22/322 freeway through Lewistown, PA has a rail road crossing at-grade:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6019735,-77.561953,3a,75y,349.51h,90.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sasDk-3UtUtSEFJAY804uyw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DasDk-3UtUtSEFJAY804uyw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D44.392%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
Any others that anyone knows about?
I personally wouldn't consider it a freeway if it has an at-grade railroad junction.
Before the US 60 / US 65 interchange was upgraded (around the turn of the decade), there was an at-grade railroad crossing on James River Freeway (US-60 west of US-65 in Springfield MO). This was incredibly dangerous crossing not only because of the urban setting, it's immediately before the busiest interchange outside the KC and STL metros, and is at the bottom of a steep-for-a-freeway grade.
Map of divided highways with RR crossings (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hKfbyvdcjITGSwITuCLUG4KKcyc&usp=sharing). Note that this also includes many arterial roads that happen to be divided, not just freeways.
All freeways must absolutely have no at-grade railroad crossings. If that picture shows it has one, then it should be an expressway.
That picture is pretty rare.
Quote from: lepidopteran on December 26, 2019, 06:07:07 PM
Map of divided highways with RR crossings (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hKfbyvdcjITGSwITuCLUG4KKcyc&usp=sharing). Note that this also includes many arterial roads that happen to be divided, not just freeways.
One
former divided highway railroad crossing not on the MyMap is US-60 near MO-114, near Moorehouse. The railroad no longer exists, but you can still see where is was on this highway.
GSV photo of what's left of the old railroad bed (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8385278,-89.7179582,3a,16.5y,92.33h,83.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd6hxRCT_8w3y9Ytm5f5eRA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
GSV photo of the warning markers, still somewhat visible. (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8385657,-89.7202369,3a,75y,69.99h,54.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAiekS5pqDGO65hYwL4Ig6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Quote from: lepidopteran on December 26, 2019, 06:07:07 PM
Map of divided highways with RR crossings (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hKfbyvdcjITGSwITuCLUG4KKcyc&usp=sharing). Note that this also includes many arterial roads that happen to be divided, not just freeways.
Fort Weaver Rd (HI 76), just south of Renton Rd, should be on that list - Ewa, HI
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 07:18:19 PM
All freeways must absolutely have no at-grade railroad crossings. If that picture shows it has one, then it should be an expressway.
That picture is pretty rare.
It seems like the examples being given are State Highway and US Routes. I'd say that more isn't adherence to Interstate standards than said segment not being a freeway. I'd be curious to see anyone has an example from the Interstate System.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 26, 2019, 07:45:26 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 07:18:19 PM
All freeways must absolutely have no at-grade railroad crossings. If that picture shows it has one, then it should be an expressway.
That picture is pretty rare.
It seems like the examples being given are State Highway and US Routes. I'd say that more isn't adherence to Interstate standards than said segment not being a freeway. I'd be curious to see anyone has an example from the Interstate System.
There used to be, but most of them have been removed.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 26, 2019, 07:45:26 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 07:18:19 PM
All freeways must absolutely have no at-grade railroad crossings. If that picture shows it has one, then it should be an expressway.
That picture is pretty rare.
It seems like the examples being given are State Highway and US Routes. I'd say that more isn't adherence to Interstate standards than said segment not being a freeway. I'd be curious to see anyone has an example from the Interstate System.
In California, the definition of a "freeway" requires grade separation. There are many California freeways that have "END FREEWAY" signs for an at grade crossing (either for cars, railroads, or boats) that have "BEGIN FREEWAY / EMERGENCY PARKING ONLY" signs a few hundred meters later. By our definition, freeways can have lots of things that are Interstate substandard or completely nonstandard (narrow lanes, narrow shoulders, narrow or artificial media, short merges, low vertical clearances, no guard rails {just a fence}, "hole in the fence" exits, bad sight lines, low design speeds, sharp curves, and steep grades {and you can probably find at least 10 examples of each in California -- we have lots of freeways}), but the minute that there is an at grade crossing, it's not a freeway.
NY 49 in Rome (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2045544,-75.4183199,3a,75y,103.65h,79.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sFqH8e2ovrYPy_im3cRAkpA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DFqH8e2ovrYPy_im3cRAkpA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D325.74582%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) (this is the reason why it's not I-790)
NY 840 near Utica (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0825095,-75.2952301,3a,75y,151.1h,73.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3fGSaOoN3DW3sTa_qwosNg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D3fGSaOoN3DW3sTa_qwosNg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D24.869463%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)
NY 5/8/12 near Utica (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0796297,-75.2947891,3a,76.5y,44.03h,91.72t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_rXOeWF-6CS3BQ7u7EhFGg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D_rXOeWF-6CS3BQ7u7EhFGg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D96.6944%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)
Location of former example on I-87 in Colonie (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7863744,-73.7577755,3a,70.1y,351.85h,86.95t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOIxj_Vr30SEh1NcjMsXnuA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DOIxj_Vr30SEh1NcjMsXnuA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D39.678898%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656), removed in 1965 (http://gino.cdfw.net/_railpage/TandS/northway.html).
Let's reword the original post a bit. Suppose a road would be a full freeway, except for an at-grade railroad crossing. The example I used, US 22/322 in Lewistown, PA, qualifies as such.
The 1977 Thomas Bros. Map shows a completed interchange of SR 520 that completely avoids contact with a railroad. They eventually built an interchange similar to this, but wound up putting some ramps over the railroad, considering it was little-used and likely to be abandoned soon. It was abandoned about 15 years later. Google Street View. (https://goo.gl/maps/jisw2QMtMMRFK42S8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49280150367_7a15512e39_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i5HDNX)
US 12 bypassed Walla Walla Washington on an freeway elevated above streets and railroads, except at one place where it dropped down to cross a railroad at-grade. This must have been a seldom-used track just a block from a warehouse, and wasn't worth bridging. When I finally went by in 1998 or '99, I found the pavement marking scrapped off and a new Jersey barrier placed in the area. Since then they've taken advantage of the surface running of the freeway to put in a RIRO interchange. (https://goo.gl/maps/FVrUyjHvMCbCjXJw6)
Quote from: michravera on December 26, 2019, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 26, 2019, 07:45:26 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 26, 2019, 07:18:19 PM
All freeways must absolutely have no at-grade railroad crossings. If that picture shows it has one, then it should be an expressway.
That picture is pretty rare.
It seems like the examples being given are State Highway and US Routes. I'd say that more isn't adherence to Interstate standards than said segment not being a freeway. I'd be curious to see anyone has an example from the Interstate System.
In California, the definition of a "freeway" requires grade separation. There are many California freeways that have "END FREEWAY" signs for an at grade crossing (either for cars, railroads, or boats) that have "BEGIN FREEWAY / EMERGENCY PARKING ONLY" signs a few hundred meters later. By our definition, freeways can have lots of things that are Interstate substandard or completely nonstandard (narrow lanes, narrow shoulders, narrow or artificial media, short merges, low vertical clearances, no guard rails {just a fence}, "hole in the fence" exits, bad sight lines, low design speeds, sharp curves, and steep grades {and you can probably find at least 10 examples of each in California -- we have lots of freeways}), but the minute that there is an at grade crossing, it's not a freeway.
Yes, but by that logic wouldn't something like a draw span technically be a grade crossing? Heck some rural Interstates in Arizona and Texas even have some graded intersections since the expense of a interchange couldn't be justified. Either way it's hard not to see a road with complete limited access control of cars as not a freeway even if a rail crossing existed.
About the most fringe variation I've found of a California Freeway is CA 18 in Waterman Canyon. It is actually signed as a freeway and more or less has the grade separation to qualify but the most fringe definition. The curvature of the roadway is more akin to a two lane mountain highway which it essentially widened from. I don't think any other state would try to tout something like that as a freeway.
I like the one in Miami near the airport where FL 112 crosses a rail line at grade then further east the freeway is grade separated from the same rail line. A long freight can be both under and on FL 112 at the same time, but thanks to the runways at Miami International and a low water table, there is no way to grade separate the one without altering the flight path of incoming planes or flooding the area.
I remember back in the 90s reading an old book that said Interstate standards required a grade separation for any railroad crossing used more than twice per day. This implies that grade crossings used no more than twice per day were allowed, at least back when the old book was written.
As I said, that's what I remember, but I could be misremembering.
For a while, Paseo Del Norte (NM 423) in Albuquerque had a railroad crossing in what was otherwise a freeway segment (https://goo.gl/maps/ss4PABTYdhjd3eHLA). The crossing was closed off around 2014 when the freeway was extended east to I-25, but the tracks are still there (https://goo.gl/maps/5VDYNQAcf3hf53qU7).
US-151, a divided expressway in WI, has two: One near WI-33 in Beaver Dam, and one near WI-26 in Waupun.
The only one that I ever remember seeing was on A-20 between Montreal and Drummondville.
The Washington and Old Dominion (W&OD) used to cross the Shirley Highway (pre-interstate) at-grade.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fconnection.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2017%2F09%2F25%2FV092717-501_t670.jpg%3Fb3f6a5d7692ccc373d56e40cf708e3fa67d9af9d&hash=647a13d04bcfc1164fc1799d3c752ac59b1c6d70)
I encountered this crossing on NB-15 on the northeast side of Moncton, New Brunswick
https://goo.gl/maps/kyUwfKNhvfEoNPXJ9
I have my own photo of {the TCH-2 crossing just to the north}, too, because I thought it was weird.
(Edited the part in braces because I realized the photo was from a different location)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48829528648_b4607b2be5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hoU6EY)
IMG_4426 (https://flic.kr/p/2hoU6EY) by Paul Drives (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138603251@N02/), on Flickr
This overhead sign announces the grade crossing in advance. https://goo.gl/maps/pH87fr3LKzjPJrSr7
I feel like we've had threads on this before... but I'll bite.
US 4, Rutland, VT: https://goo.gl/maps/j7E9K1Wty9FN6H4u7
NB 2, Moncton, NB: https://goo.gl/maps/YFZmtLpVpR3a4N2b9
NB 15, Moncton, NB: https://goo.gl/maps/pNhA8mDkFzVFnChE6 EDIT: I see Paul just barely beat me on this one!
NB 2, Moncton, NB: https://goo.gl/maps/t8mSCKkXJXUDb53D8
Quote from: ozarkman417 on December 26, 2019, 05:50:29 PM
Before the US 60 / US 65 interchange was upgraded (around the turn of the decade), there was an at-grade railroad crossing on James River Freeway (US-60 west of US-65 in Springfield MO). This was incredibly dangerous crossing not only because of the urban setting, it's immediately before the busiest interchange outside the KC and STL metros, and is at the bottom of a steep-for-a-freeway grade.
How often is that railroad used, though? I've never seen a train there. My memory is fuzzy, but I don't remember there being gates either–just [EXEMPT] signs.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 27, 2019, 12:10:43 PM
I feel like we've had threads on this before...
I know we have, but I can't find the thread.
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2019, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: ozarkman417 on December 26, 2019, 05:50:29 PM
Before the US 60 / US 65 interchange was upgraded (around the turn of the decade), there was an at-grade railroad crossing on James River Freeway (US-60 west of US-65 in Springfield MO). This was incredibly dangerous crossing not only because of the urban setting, it's immediately before the busiest interchange outside the KC and STL metros, and is at the bottom of a steep-for-a-freeway grade.
How often is that railroad used, though? I've never seen a train there. My memory is fuzzy, but I don't remember there being gates either–just [EXEMPT] signs.
Before 2015 I would occasionally see trains delivering coal to the Lake Springfield Power Plant (where the railroad terminates) though I'm not sure if I have ever been stopped on JRF by one. I do remember the 'BE PREPARED TO STOP' signs at the interchange. 2015 was the year the Power Plant stopped using coal and disabled 3 of 5 generators. Now, The plant is being retired. (https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Power-plant-responsible-for-Lake-Springfield-and-our-electricity-on-the-way-out-565860862.html)
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2019, 01:39:48 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 27, 2019, 12:10:43 PM
I feel like we've had threads on this before...
I know we have, but I can't find the thread.
FWIW, I did try a search before I started this, but I didn't see a specific thread for this particular subject. I certainly could have missed it...
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2019, 01:39:48 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 27, 2019, 12:10:43 PM
I feel like we've had threads on this before...
I know we have, but I can't find the thread.
Railroad Crossing (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25072.0)
Quote from: lepidopteran on December 26, 2019, 06:07:07 PM
Map of divided highways with RR crossings (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hKfbyvdcjITGSwITuCLUG4KKcyc&usp=sharing). Note that this also includes many arterial roads that happen to be divided, not just freeways.
There's one on US 218 north of Austin, MN not marked on your map. I have no idea how often the railroad crossing is used.
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on December 27, 2019, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2019, 01:39:48 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 27, 2019, 12:10:43 PM
I feel like we've had threads on this before...
I know we have, but I can't find the thread.
Railroad Crossing (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25072.0)
Not that thread, but I remember a thread from a few years ago that focused specifically on divided highways and freeways.
The Atlantic City - Brigantine Connector in Atlantic City crosses the NJT Atlantic City Line (https://goo.gl/maps/4aT9q3RHqnj9ihNz5) immediately west of that line's station in AC. I don't know why they didn't build up, but it would have been impossible to go down thanks to the Intracostal Waterway.
Not a full freeway, but NJ 17 (a "Jersey Freeway") has a grade crossing at its interchange with I-80 (https://goo.gl/maps/amNYjdrc7ZLEAxDo9).
Quote from: ozarkman417 on December 27, 2019, 02:27:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2019, 01:37:33 PM
How often is that railroad used, though? I've never seen a train there. My memory is fuzzy, but I don't remember there being gates either–just [EXEMPT] signs.
Before 2015 I would occasionally see trains delivering coal to the Lake Springfield Power Plant (where the railroad terminates) though I'm not sure if I have ever been stopped on JRF by one. I do remember the 'BE PREPARED TO STOP' signs at the interchange. 2015 was the year the Power Plant stopped using coal and disabled 3 of 5 generators. Now, The plant is being retired. (https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Power-plant-responsible-for-Lake-Springfield-and-our-electricity-on-the-way-out-565860862.html)
Figures the line probably gets abandoned after it gets grade separated.
The crossing had cantilevers (https://goo.gl/maps/mpSF7ZQTMmB52wAM6) and gates, and at least one set of 'Be Prepared to Stop' signs with a pair of flashing beacons above that would alternate with a flashing 'train' word message below the sign for EB US 60 (https://goo.gl/maps/snH6LjbLcjacoq6p8). Looking at 2007 Streetview from SB US 65 and some of the ramps (https://goo.gl/maps/w4gatCjhfTgrpEH16), it looks like there may have also been an advanced flashing assemblies for WB and the SB to WB ramp as well, but not with the circular sign.
Quote from: DandyDan on December 28, 2019, 02:02:00 AM
Quote from: lepidopteran on December 26, 2019, 06:07:07 PM
Map of divided highways with RR crossings (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hKfbyvdcjITGSwITuCLUG4KKcyc&usp=sharing). Note that this also includes many arterial roads that happen to be divided, not just freeways.
There's one on US 218 north of Austin, MN not marked on your map. I have no idea how often the railroad crossing is used.
Also on MN 61 in Duluth, which is largely but not exclusively a seasonal railroad operated by the Duluth Depot's train museum.
Until 1967, there was one just to the west of Exit 8 (75) on the Mid-Cape Highway back in that section's Super-2 days.
Quote from: lepidopteran on December 26, 2019, 06:07:07 PM
Map of divided highways with RR crossings (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hKfbyvdcjITGSwITuCLUG4KKcyc&usp=sharing). Note that this also includes many arterial roads that happen to be divided, not just freeways.
How long ago was this map made? A good number of these don't even exist anymore.
In just NJ alone, the southern one on US 1, both of the US 22 ones, NJ 15, the western and eastern ones on US 46.
On an unrelated note, I never knew that NJ 17 had a railroad crossing under an overpass!
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2019, 01:39:48 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 27, 2019, 12:10:43 PM
I feel like we've had threads on this before...
I know we have, but I can't find the thread.
Obviously the few angered users on here who normally shame a new members when they ask a question today in 2019 by another member back in 2001 are either busy for the holidays or taking meds to calm their nerves. Usually someone will hastefully post the link to it!
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on December 27, 2019, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2019, 01:39:48 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 27, 2019, 12:10:43 PM
I feel like we've had threads on this before...
I know we have, but I can't find the thread.
Railroad Crossing (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25072.0)
That's not a thread about freeways with at-grade railroad crossings. That's a thread about railroad crossings in general. I thought there was a whole thread about this same topic, but apparently there isn't, or else someone would have linked to it by now.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 31, 2019, 12:01:38 PM
Obviously the few angered users on here who normally shame a new members when they ask a question today in 2019 by another member back in 2001 are either busy for the holidays or taking meds to calm their nerves. Usually someone will hastefully post the link to it!
No, I think there must genuinely not be one. We've tried and failed to find it.
Quote from: lepidopteran on December 26, 2019, 06:07:07 PM
Map of divided highways with RR crossings (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hKfbyvdcjITGSwITuCLUG4KKcyc&usp=sharing). Note that this also includes many arterial roads that happen to be divided, not just freeways.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3154098,-77.5157874,3a,72.9y,29.21h,78.63t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1soB5zEsAegTgUAzcWpRSUOA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DoB5zEsAegTgUAzcWpRSUOA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D125.638054%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3133795,-77.61696,3a,75y,263.19h,85.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqM81Z6C580EosEtMeL2qNA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
You missed some and these are going to be freeways in the future.
I remember that Autoroute 20 in Quebec has a railway crossing on it somewhere. I don't remember where, but I remember being so surprised to see one that I had to double check the GPS to see if I was actually still on Autoroute 20.
Quote from: andrepoiy on January 05, 2020, 07:00:34 PM
I remember that Autoroute 20 in Quebec has a railway crossing on it somewhere. I don't remember where, but I remember being so surprised to see one that I had to double check the GPS to see if I was actually still on Autoroute 20.
That's in Saint-Hyacinthe, east of Montreal. It is on the map.
I went in and added the crossings listed in this thread. Pins that are red are abandoned, and green pins are active, though "active" doesn't necessarily mean it sees much use. Yellow pins are rare; these indicate a grade crossing that used to exist, but has since been grade-separated.