I was at this light today, one that I know has this strange phase. The normal green ball and green right arrow occurs, but seconds later, the right arrow and right turn signals go yellow and then red. The doghouse shows both the green ball and red ball. This happens for no apparent reason! I'll try to get better pics soon!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200114/6bf65b96d57c97dcfb6eef74361aa23f.jpg)
iPhone
Is the green ball light aimed at a different intersection? It looks like it's on an angle compared to the red light right above it
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 14, 2020, 06:00:30 PM
I was at this light today, one that I know has this strange phase. The normal green ball and green right arrow occurs, but seconds later, the right arrow and right turn signals go yellow and then red. The doghouse shows both the green ball and red ball. This happens for no apparent reason! I'll try to get better pics soon!
Can you link a map location so we can get some more context?
Quote from: ET21 on January 15, 2020, 09:12:14 AM
Is the green ball light aimed at a different intersection? It looks like it's on an angle compared to the red light right above it
It's a 3 way intersection. Here's the link https://goo.gl/maps/U6kzzTYwqKEyi35X8
iPhone
Also fun fact. When this signal was first installed the 4 section left turn signal on the main Trapelo road was mounted on the bottom right of the pole, and the top two signals were 3 sections. It was fixed quickly I guess
iPhone
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 15, 2020, 09:07:31 PM
Quote from: ET21 on January 15, 2020, 09:12:14 AM
Is the green ball light aimed at a different intersection? It looks like it's on an angle compared to the red light right above it
It's a 3 way intersection. Here's the link https://goo.gl/maps/U6kzzTYwqKEyi35X8
It would appear that red arrows would be a wise replacement for those circular red indications.
The way I understand it, the doghouse is a near-side signal for both the left and right turns. But both maneuvers, which apparently go at different times, both seem to use circular-only indications (or possibly, the right turn only uses a green arrow). Easy fix would be to replace the right turn red indications with red arrows. The doghouse would have a right red arrow, with two right-facing amber and green arrows below that on the right; two regular amber and green circular indications on the bottom left.
(https://i.imgur.com/e6gTYMn.jpg)
I think there's no reason to have the doghouse signal there to repeat both left and right turns, since the right turn signal displays are well within line of sight and are very close to the two primary signals for the right turn. Should've just installed it as a repeater for the left turns and called it a day.
Also interesting when I looked at the intersection in Street View: There appear to be signals facing the residential driveways across the street.
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 14, 2020, 06:00:30 PM
I was at this light today, one that I know has this strange phase. The normal green ball and green right arrow occurs, but seconds later, the right arrow and right turn signals go yellow and then red. The doghouse shows both the green ball and red ball. This happens for no apparent reason! I'll try to get better pics soon!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200114/6bf65b96d57c97dcfb6eef74361aa23f.jpg)
Looking at the photo and looking at the intersection on Google Street View, it seems bizarre that the green would be on for the left turn at the same time as a red for the right turn. I could understand the other way (red for left, green for right), but this way (red for right, green for left) has no known reason for being. There is no obvious conflict, with the left turn having a green due to the setup of the intersection, for the right turn.
I would just replace all the yellow and green signal sections protecting a left turn with left arrows. Leave the red signal as a ball.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 16, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
I would just replace all the yellow and green signal sections protecting a left turn with left arrows. Leave the red signal as a ball.
Again, you can't, because the left turn isn't protected.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 16, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
I would just replace all the yellow and green signal sections protecting a left turn with left arrows. Leave the red signal as a ball.
Again, you can't, because the left turn isn't protected.
Remove that doghouse, and put arrows on the right turn signals. Also check out some other trapelo road signals, (the main street), there are some weird setups with many high (way too high) cantilevers.
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 16, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 16, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
I would just replace all the yellow and green signal sections protecting a left turn with left arrows. Leave the red signal as a ball.
Again, you can't, because the left turn isn't protected.
Remove that doghouse, and put arrows on the right turn signals. Also check out some other trapelo road signals, (the main street), there are some weird setups with many high (way too high) cantilevers.
That would be fine too. Keep the near-side signal on the edge of that porkchop island for the left turn, but maybe eliminate the near-side right turn signal.
I've also drawn this, where the right turn signal becomes a HAWK which normally operates as a yield:
(https://i.imgur.com/r1oO41w.png)
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 16, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 16, 2020, 01:29:03 PM
I would just replace all the yellow and green signal sections protecting a left turn with left arrows. Leave the red signal as a ball.
Again, you can't, because the left turn isn't protected.
Remove that doghouse, and put arrows on the right turn signals. Also check out some other trapelo road signals, (the main street), there are some weird setups with many high (way too high) cantilevers.
That would be fine too. Keep the near-side signal on the edge of that porkchop island for the left turn, but maybe eliminate the near-side right turn signal.
I've also drawn this, where the right turn signal becomes a HAWK which normally operates as a yield:
(https://i.imgur.com/r1oO41w.png)
What's with the upside down hawk
iPhone
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 11:13:53 AM
Looking at the photo and looking at the intersection on Google Street View, it seems bizarre that the green would be on for the left turn at the same time as a red for the right turn. I could understand the other way (red for left, green for right), but this way (red for right, green for left) has no known reason for being. There is no obvious conflict, with the left turn having a green due to the setup of the intersection, for the right turn.
In most states, it's not acceptable to have a slip lane with a green signal at the same time as oncoming permissive left turn.
For example, this right turn in Albuquerque: https://goo.gl/maps/amBwxn1rkcXJyNao9
There's no oncoming left turn here that is visible in the photo. It's effectively a "T" intersection and this part is the "T".
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 16, 2020, 06:42:07 PM
What's with the upside down hawk
Accident
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 11:13:53 AM
Looking at the photo and looking at the intersection on Google Street View, it seems bizarre that the green would be on for the left turn at the same time as a red for the right turn. I could understand the other way (red for left, green for right), but this way (red for right, green for left) has no known reason for being. There is no obvious conflict, with the left turn having a green due to the setup of the intersection, for the right turn.
In most states, it's not acceptable to have a slip lane with a green signal at the same time as oncoming permissive left turn.
For example, this right turn in Albuquerque: https://goo.gl/maps/amBwxn1rkcXJyNao9
There's no oncoming left turn here that is visible in the photo. It's effectively a "T" intersection and this part is the "T".
The driveways have signals. Note the signals facing away from the left turn stop line.
Let's extend this even more. One intersection down is a common New England Red and Green, and a notably high cantilever for no reason: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3880433,-71.1910772,3a,75y,173.41h,85.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4ivEC0C9eE3anLaL7Zq7mw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 16, 2020, 10:11:12 PM
Let's extend this even more. One intersection down is a common New England Red and Green, and a notably high cantilever for no reason: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3880433,-71.1910772,3a,75y,173.41h,85.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4ivEC0C9eE3anLaL7Zq7mw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
That mast arm on the left is high in order to be above the trolleybus wires.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 07:58:02 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 16, 2020, 06:42:07 PM
What's with the upside down hawk
Accident
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 11:13:53 AM
Looking at the photo and looking at the intersection on Google Street View, it seems bizarre that the green would be on for the left turn at the same time as a red for the right turn. I could understand the other way (red for left, green for right), but this way (red for right, green for left) has no known reason for being. There is no obvious conflict, with the left turn having a green due to the setup of the intersection, for the right turn.
In most states, it's not acceptable to have a slip lane with a green signal at the same time as oncoming permissive left turn.
For example, this right turn in Albuquerque: https://goo.gl/maps/amBwxn1rkcXJyNao9
There's no oncoming left turn here that is visible in the photo. It's effectively a "T" intersection and this part is the "T".
The driveways have signals. Note the signals facing away from the left turn stop line.
If the driveways are green, then the left turn should be red (for the same reason as the right turn), based on the location of the driveways.
https://goo.gl/maps/yCNyoK28e6zVv7JXA
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 16, 2020, 10:11:12 PM
Let's extend this even more. One intersection down is a common New England Red and Green, and a notably high cantilever for no reason: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3880433,-71.1910772,3a,75y,173.41h,85.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4ivEC0C9eE3anLaL7Zq7mw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
That would make more sense as a five-lamp tower if it displays a red ball and a green arrow.
Also that 4 section left turn at Pleasant/Trapelo doesn't even have a bi-model arrow.
Quote from: Brandon on January 17, 2020, 01:33:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 07:58:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 11:13:53 AM
Looking at the photo and looking at the intersection on Google Street View, it seems bizarre that the green would be on for the left turn at the same time as a red for the right turn. I could understand the other way (red for left, green for right), but this way (red for right, green for left) has no known reason for being. There is no obvious conflict, with the left turn having a green due to the setup of the intersection, for the right turn.
In most states, it's not acceptable to have a slip lane with a green signal at the same time as oncoming permissive left turn.
For example, this right turn in Albuquerque: https://goo.gl/maps/amBwxn1rkcXJyNao9
There's no oncoming left turn here that is visible in the photo. It's effectively a "T" intersection and this part is the "T".
The driveways have signals. Note the signals facing away from the left turn stop line.
If the driveways are green, then the left turn should be red (for the same reason as the right turn), based on the location of the driveways.
https://goo.gl/maps/yCNyoK28e6zVv7JXA
I thought about that too. The offsets would be unusual for a "yield on green" signal, but they
did remove a fourth southerly-facing signal (https://goo.gl/maps/t5Qts3ttgLyLb9nc9) for one of the driveways (
current image (https://goo.gl/maps/L1CdUKiCD3XVAfDb6)), which makes me wonder if all of the driveways and the left turn go at once (why else would they remove one of the two signals required for each approach?). If this is not the case, sure, change the left turn to green arrows. But the signals facing the driveways should have arrows as well, since it's all split-phased.
Strange thing to do, but maybe I'll go and u turn in a driveway to see what happens! :colorful:
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 17, 2020, 03:45:08 PM
Strange thing to do, but maybe I'll go and u turn in a driveway to see what happens! :colorful:
Easiest thing is just to look back at the lights facing the driveway when you turn left. If they're all red, the intersection is split-phased and could be modified with green arrows.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 17, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 17, 2020, 03:45:08 PM
Strange thing to do, but maybe I'll go and u turn in a driveway to see what happens! :colorful:
Easiest thing is just to look back at the lights facing the driveway when you turn left. If they're all red, the intersection is split-phased and could be modified with green arrows.
I already know that the driveway lights aren't green as the other street has a green. That's also proven because there are sensors for those driveways. It's def split phasing.
iPhone
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 17, 2020, 07:11:40 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 17, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 17, 2020, 03:45:08 PM
Strange thing to do, but maybe I'll go and u turn in a driveway to see what happens! :colorful:
Easiest thing is just to look back at the lights facing the driveway when you turn left. If they're all red, the intersection is split-phased and could be modified with green arrows.
I already know that the driveway lights aren't green as the other street has a green. That's also proven because there are sensors for those driveways. It's def split phasing.
Oh. Well then green arrows would work fine for that left turn. My whole point has been that the intersection must use permissive phasing because there are no green arrows for the left turn. Older intersections sometimes would split-phase without any green arrows, but I was not aware of new intersections that operated that way.
I normally could have figured this out on my own if I was able to find a street view image with the left turn being green, but I wasn't able to.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 17, 2020, 03:40:37 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 17, 2020, 01:33:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 07:58:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 11:13:53 AM
Looking at the photo and looking at the intersection on Google Street View, it seems bizarre that the green would be on for the left turn at the same time as a red for the right turn. I could understand the other way (red for left, green for right), but this way (red for right, green for left) has no known reason for being. There is no obvious conflict, with the left turn having a green due to the setup of the intersection, for the right turn.
In most states, it's not acceptable to have a slip lane with a green signal at the same time as oncoming permissive left turn.
For example, this right turn in Albuquerque: https://goo.gl/maps/amBwxn1rkcXJyNao9
There's no oncoming left turn here that is visible in the photo. It's effectively a "T" intersection and this part is the "T".
The driveways have signals. Note the signals facing away from the left turn stop line.
If the driveways are green, then the left turn should be red (for the same reason as the right turn), based on the location of the driveways.
https://goo.gl/maps/yCNyoK28e6zVv7JXA
I thought about that too. The offsets would be unusual for a "yield on green" signal, but they did remove a fourth southerly-facing signal (https://goo.gl/maps/t5Qts3ttgLyLb9nc9) for one of the driveways (current image (https://goo.gl/maps/L1CdUKiCD3XVAfDb6)), which makes me wonder if all of the driveways and the left turn go at once (why else would they remove one of the two signals required for each approach?). If this is not the case, sure, change the left turn to green arrows. But the signals facing the driveways should have arrows as well, since it's all split-phased.
That signal is literally in every other street view picture. I think the location so close to the roadway mightbe a problem for that. It appears to have been installed with them originally, but then newer with the yellow border in later ones, so I would guess with the signal being so close to the roadway its been hit like 3 or 4 times.
Quote from: UCFKnights on January 20, 2020, 08:37:11 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 17, 2020, 03:40:37 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 17, 2020, 01:33:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 07:58:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 11:13:53 AM
Looking at the photo and looking at the intersection on Google Street View, it seems bizarre that the green would be on for the left turn at the same time as a red for the right turn. I could understand the other way (red for left, green for right), but this way (red for right, green for left) has no known reason for being. There is no obvious conflict, with the left turn having a green due to the setup of the intersection, for the right turn.
In most states, it's not acceptable to have a slip lane with a green signal at the same time as oncoming permissive left turn.
For example, this right turn in Albuquerque: https://goo.gl/maps/amBwxn1rkcXJyNao9
There's no oncoming left turn here that is visible in the photo. It's effectively a "T" intersection and this part is the "T".
The driveways have signals. Note the signals facing away from the left turn stop line.
If the driveways are green, then the left turn should be red (for the same reason as the right turn), based on the location of the driveways.
https://goo.gl/maps/yCNyoK28e6zVv7JXA
I thought about that too. The offsets would be unusual for a "yield on green" signal, but they did remove a fourth southerly-facing signal (https://goo.gl/maps/t5Qts3ttgLyLb9nc9) for one of the driveways (current image (https://goo.gl/maps/L1CdUKiCD3XVAfDb6)), which makes me wonder if all of the driveways and the left turn go at once (why else would they remove one of the two signals required for each approach?). If this is not the case, sure, change the left turn to green arrows. But the signals facing the driveways should have arrows as well, since it's all split-phased.
That signal is literally in every other street view picture. I think the location so close to the roadway mightbe a problem for that. It appears to have been installed with them originally, but then newer with the yellow border in later ones, so I would guess with the signal being so close to the roadway its been hit like 3 or 4 times.
If you look at the most recent street view imagery on a computer, you can see that the yellow-bordered signal was actually removed. The latest imagery does not show it, only the older stuff. Which is odd, because you'd think it would be newer (hence the yellow strip), but it seems to have been installed at the same time as the other signals, just with a yellow border.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 20, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: UCFKnights on January 20, 2020, 08:37:11 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 17, 2020, 03:40:37 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 17, 2020, 01:33:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 07:58:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2020, 11:13:53 AM
Looking at the photo and looking at the intersection on Google Street View, it seems bizarre that the green would be on for the left turn at the same time as a red for the right turn. I could understand the other way (red for left, green for right), but this way (red for right, green for left) has no known reason for being. There is no obvious conflict, with the left turn having a green due to the setup of the intersection, for the right turn.
In most states, it's not acceptable to have a slip lane with a green signal at the same time as oncoming permissive left turn.
For example, this right turn in Albuquerque: https://goo.gl/maps/amBwxn1rkcXJyNao9
There's no oncoming left turn here that is visible in the photo. It's effectively a "T" intersection and this part is the "T".
The driveways have signals. Note the signals facing away from the left turn stop line.
If the driveways are green, then the left turn should be red (for the same reason as the right turn), based on the location of the driveways.
https://goo.gl/maps/yCNyoK28e6zVv7JXA
I thought about that too. The offsets would be unusual for a "yield on green" signal, but they did remove a fourth southerly-facing signal (https://goo.gl/maps/t5Qts3ttgLyLb9nc9) for one of the driveways (current image (https://goo.gl/maps/L1CdUKiCD3XVAfDb6)), which makes me wonder if all of the driveways and the left turn go at once (why else would they remove one of the two signals required for each approach?). If this is not the case, sure, change the left turn to green arrows. But the signals facing the driveways should have arrows as well, since it's all split-phased.
That signal is literally in every other street view picture. I think the location so close to the roadway mightbe a problem for that. It appears to have been installed with them originally, but then newer with the yellow border in later ones, so I would guess with the signal being so close to the roadway its been hit like 3 or 4 times.
If you look at the most recent street view imagery on a computer, you can see that the yellow-bordered signal was actually removed. The latest imagery does not show it, only the older stuff. Which is odd, because you'd think it would be newer (hence the yellow strip), but it seems to have been installed at the same time as the other signals, just with a yellow border.
Actually no, it was installed without, a year later it was placed, and then it was taken out again.
iPhone
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 21, 2020, 02:52:22 PM
Actually no, it was installed without, a year later it was placed, and then it was taken out again.
Are you certain? In
this June 2015 imagery (https://goo.gl/maps/waKuFp8sv2JDUzTz5), we can see the signals being placed for the intersection. The pole for the removed signal is visible just around the corner, sans-signal display. The
next immediate imagery (https://goo.gl/maps/5RQ1axUrumrcWLm47), from March 2016, shows the signal installed.
Basically, they would have installed the signal pole, but then not installed the signal display, for your comment to make sense. The signal seems to have been activated late Summer of 2015, and that yellow-bordered signal was there by the following March (less than a year).
What's really confusing to me, is why they'd have that signal display there, only to remove it a short time later.
Definitely split phasing. Just went through there again today and we stopped for a driveway car. The light didn't do the red and green thing today for some reason. Idk why
iPhone
Ok update guys: I just saw the red and green again (driving through again). The green left and the tightest driveway signal were green, and the right turn was red. Doghouse red and green again.
iPhone
Alright, here's my hypothesis based on that description: the driveways only activate if someone is waiting at one of the driveways. In these situations, I'm guessing the left turn would have to yield to traffic leaving the driveway turning right, necessitating the green orb.
I don't know why they signalised the driveways. Would have been easier to do nothing, and let those five people figure it out.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 21, 2020, 04:00:39 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 21, 2020, 02:52:22 PM
Actually no, it was installed without, a year later it was placed, and then it was taken out again.
Are you certain? In this June 2015 imagery (https://goo.gl/maps/waKuFp8sv2JDUzTz5), we can see the signals being placed for the intersection. The pole for the removed signal is visible just around the corner, sans-signal display. The next immediate imagery (https://goo.gl/maps/5RQ1axUrumrcWLm47), from March 2016, shows the signal installed.
Basically, they would have installed the signal pole, but then not installed the signal display, for your comment to make sense. The signal seems to have been activated late Summer of 2015, and that yellow-bordered signal was there by the following March (less than a year).
What's really confusing to me, is why they'd have that signal display there, only to remove it a short time later.
Its there March 2016, missing September 2016, there September 2017, missing September 2018. As I said before, I'm betting the signal is placed too close to the roadway around a turn and keeps getting clipped by trucks and whatnot. They probably finally gave up on it after it appearing to have been hit 3 times.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 22, 2020, 02:22:43 AM
Alright, here's my hypothesis based on that description: the driveways only activate if someone is waiting at one of the driveways. In these situations, I'm guessing the left turn would have to yield to traffic leaving the driveway turning right, necessitating the green orb.
I don't know why they signalised the driveways. Would have been easier to do nothing, and let those five people figure it out.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 22, 2020, 02:22:43 AM
Alright, here's my hypothesis based on that description: the driveways only activate if someone is waiting at one of the driveways. In these situations, I'm guessing the left turn would have to yield to traffic leaving the driveway turning right, necessitating the green orb.
I don't know why they signalised the driveways. Would have been easier to do nothing, and let those five people figure it out.
Not sure about Massachusetts, but Caltrans (California) requires that opposing private driveways be signalized. The justification is because the MUTCD doesn't allow "mixtures" of different traffic control at the same intersection, e.g., stop signs at signalized intersections. Some older intersections in California, though, use just a red ball for the driveway intersection. Example: https://goo.gl/maps/JsBrWqE7Fcc7QUd88
Quote from: UCFKnights on January 22, 2020, 05:17:03 PM
Its there March 2016, missing September 2016, there September 2017, missing September 2018. As I said before, I'm betting the signal is placed too close to the roadway around a turn and keeps getting clipped by trucks and whatnot. They probably finally gave up on it after it appearing to have been hit 3 times.
It does seem awfully close to the road. That theory makes sense. At any rate, each approach needs two signals, so I'm not sure if that driveway is now part of the larger intersection, or operates by itself with only one signal.
Quote from: mapman on January 22, 2020, 06:38:26 PM
Not sure about Massachusetts, but Caltrans (California) requires that opposing private driveways be signalized. The justification is because the MUTCD doesn't allow "mixtures" of different traffic control at the same intersection, e.g., stop signs at signalized intersections. Some older intersections in California, though, use just a red ball for the driveway intersection. Example: https://goo.gl/maps/JsBrWqE7Fcc7QUd88
I think that's a general rule in most states (evidently the case in Mass as well). My idea comes from several intersections in my area (
one example (https://goo.gl/maps/c2DuApBMJR9tb9qi6), now gone,
and another (https://goo.gl/maps/Pef1eea8QjoLQ44T9)) where one approach (always a driveway) does not have a signal, much less a stop sign. There's just not enough cars to justify the extra engineering complexity. I cannot recall any recently-installed examples.
Yes, in Massachusetts driveways that are within a signalized intersection must be signalized as well.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on January 23, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Yes, in Massachusetts driveways that are within a signalized intersection must be signalized as well.
Is it an actual written rule, or just a rule of thumb?
I've seen so many with that, but idk if it is written law
iPhone
Quote from: Amtrakprod on January 23, 2020, 03:18:53 PM
I've seen so many with that, but idk if it is written law
Well, and I've probably seen just as many. But sometimes it's just a de facto rule (taken as the rule, but perhaps not actually). Meaning engineers have the final say-so, as far as I know.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 23, 2020, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on January 23, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Yes, in Massachusetts driveways that are within a signalized intersection must be signalized as well.
Is it an actual written rule, or just a rule of thumb?
Usually up to engineer's discretion, although often their "discretion" is mandated by transportation department policy. Usually things like this don't get to the point of needing a law, unless someone complains to their local politician who decides they can create a feel-good law in the name of safety.
To use another example, while most states have laws describing what to do at a stop sign, and what to do at a traffic light, it's up to engineer's discretion what gets installed where. TUnlike what a lot of people feel, it doesn't take a death at an intersection to have a light installed, and as one person in an online discussion tried telling me recently, it's not law that a flashing red light be installed for several years before a traffic light is installed! :-D :no:
Quote from: jakeroot on January 23, 2020, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on January 23, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Yes, in Massachusetts driveways that are within a signalized intersection must be signalized as well.
Is it an actual written rule, or just a rule of thumb?
I can't find an actual rule anywhere, but it's standard practice, and frankly it's common sense.
The MUTCD allows for a driveway within a signalized intersection to not be signalized (instead getting a stop or yield sign) only so long as "an extremely low potential for conflict exists".
Also, fun thing from the SAME doghouse. It decides to turn off the red ball for the left turn when the right turn has a green and left is red. Bad photo from(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200128/ada2841a86f3a5ca8eab85ea01c62450.jpg)
Uber I'm sorry!
iPhone
My apologies, I misread his post.