AARoads Forum

So this happened last night. I'll let you guess the outcome and I'll post later today (or tomorrow or sometime...)

I was driving on 295 North in NJ woth my wife, and got stopped by a State Trooper.  I knew he caught me going about 76 in a 55 approaching Cherry Hill's Exit 34 (He was in an odd spot...I usually see them in the median there, but he was angled on the right shoulder this time). As I was pulling over, I realized my phone, which I had left home by accident, contained my license in the case pocket.

Cop pulls in behind me and approaches the car on the passenger side. Asks for my license, registration and insurance. As I pull put my reg and ins from the glove box, I tell him I don't have my license...

So. How did this turn out for me?

Did you end up on "Live PD?"

Quote from: renegade on January 25, 2020, 12:52:12 PM
Did you end up on "Live PD?"

Nah. Thank goodness. Actually I don't think Live PD has ever been in NJ. Live Fire and Rescue does role with the Patterson FD, and apparently with Trenton as well.

I'm assuming that most police departments now have the ability to view your license off DMV records on their dashboard computer and verify you are who say you are. 

You now have to take your DL to the police station within a certain number of days, to prove that you did in fact possess a current DL at the time of the infraction.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 25, 2020, 12:39:57 PM
So. How did this turn out for me?

Because you're here to tell us about it, I'm assuming you're white.

Are you writing this from a jailhouse computer? I'm sorry, but I cannot help with bail.

You had to phone a friend to drive the car from that spot? (rule in British Columbia)

Quote from: jakeroot on January 25, 2020, 03:30:05 PM
You had to phone a friend to drive the car from that spot? (rule in British Columbia)

Would his wife not suffice under that rule?

Ooh, a cliffhanger!  :popcorn:

Quote from: webny99 on January 25, 2020, 05:19:15 PM
Ooh, a cliffhanger!  :popcorn:

I purposely didn't read the statute so the actually answer has some actual "suspense"  to it. 

Quote from: ozarkman417 on January 25, 2020, 04:27:43 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on January 25, 2020, 03:30:05 PM
You had to phone a friend to drive the car from that spot? (rule in British Columbia)

Would his wife not suffice under that rule?

Forgive my lack of proofreading skills.

New answer: wife had to drive home.

The cop's birth parents were unmarried.

Going to guess that the cop took your DOB, address, possibly SSN, and called it in to verify that you have a valid DL. You got a ticket for speeding and a warning for license to be in possession.

So, this is the long-winded version of what happened. First a little more detail...

One of the things I learned when getting pulled over is simply don't do anything stupid. I was approaching an interchange, which is a bad place to stop. I moved over to the right lane, then after the acceleration lane ended I moved over well onto the right shoulder, stopping with my two right wheels on the grass, so plenty of distance from live traffic. Trooper pulled in behind me. I opened my windows and turned on my interior lights as it was dark so he could clearly see in the vehicle.

As they normally do, he walked over to the passenger side, and asked for my info. As I pulled it out I clearly admitted to what I did, saying "I guess I was going a little fast there". He gave a quiet "yeah".

As I said, I told him I didn't have my license, but I have my license number memorized if he wanted it. He looked at my reg and ins and asked if I was Jeff, and I said yes. Then he said: "Nah, I don't feel like going back and looking it up. Just slow down a little". And walked away!

No mention of my actual speed (I estimated about 76 or so), how much over the limit I was or the 55 limit. After I got home, even my wife commented that he didn't make us switch drivers! He just let a driver without their license continue to drive! The entire time he was at my car lasted about 45 seconds!

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 26, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
[The trooper] looked at my reg and ins and asked if I was Jeff, and I said yes. Then he said: "Nah, I don't feel like going back and looking it up. Just slow down a little". And walked away!

Yup, you're white.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 26, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
So, this is the long-winded version of what happened. First a little more detail...

One of the things I learned when getting pulled over is simply don't do anything stupid. I was approaching an interchange, which is a bad place to stop. I moved over to the right lane, then after the acceleration lane ended I moved over well onto the right shoulder, stopping with my two right wheels on the grass, so plenty of distance from live traffic. Trooper pulled in behind me. I opened my windows and turned on my interior lights as it was dark so he could clearly see in the vehicle.

As they normally do, he walked over to the passenger side, and asked for my info. As I pulled it out I clearly admitted to what I did, saying "I guess I was going a little fast there". He gave a quiet "yeah".

As I said, I told him I didn't have my license, but I have my license number memorized if he wanted it. He looked at my reg and ins and asked if I was Jeff, and I said yes. Then he said: "Nah, I don't feel like going back and looking it up. Just slow down a little". And walked away!

No mention of my actual speed (I estimated about 76 or so), how much over the limit I was or the 55 limit. After I got home, even my wife commented that he didn't make us switch drivers! He just let a driver without their license continue to drive! The entire time he was at my car lasted about 45 seconds!

Lucky you!  In Oregon, the State Police are hard core as are the cities where they emphasize traffic enforcement.  Add in cities with photo traffic enforcement to the "no breaks" list.  Encounter other law enforcement agencies if you want to be able to slide in the Beaver State!

Rick

Quote from: Mr. Matté on January 26, 2020, 08:47:06 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 26, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
[The trooper] looked at my reg and ins and asked if I was Jeff, and I said yes. Then he said: "Nah, I don't feel like going back and looking it up. Just slow down a little". And walked away!

Yup, you're white.

That certainly helped, I'm sure.

I have found, twice when I was stopped under very similar circumstances (in Ohio), that being honest and respectful goes a long way:

"Do you know why I pulled you over?"
ME:  "Yes, officer, I was obviously going too fast."
"Do you know how fast you were going?"
ME:  "I'd estimate 55-to-60"  (in a 45-mph zone).
"Thank you for being honest--I clocked you at 59"

Written warning, no ticket..."have a nice night, and drive safely..."

I've been pulled over five times in my adult life and I'm 2 for 5 for getting tickets.  The two tickets I got were for expired tags when I bought a house (2007) and didn't realize that ADOT would forward the renewal in the mail and the other was not turning to the most extreme right lane (2005) The other three were as follows:

-  In 2016 I was pulled over on I-20 in western Texas for following a trucker at 500 feet at 70 MPH.  The State Trooper wanted to know someone with a Florida tag wasn't on I-10 and I handed him my travel order showing that I was moving to California.  I further explained that I was headed to US 180 to go to Carlsbad Caverns that day in New Mexico.  The trooper thanked me and told me that a lot of drug runners had been using I-20 to avoid their checkpoints on I-10.  This trooper had a Crown Victoria so it ended up mostly being a conversation about Panther Body cars before he let me go with a warning. 
-   In 2015 someone cut me off coming out of a driveway on Spring Lake Highway in Hernando County, Florida.  I slammed my car up (a Challenger) up to 70 MPH and blew past the driver.  A sheriffs deputy read my speed coming the other way and pulled me over.  I explained that I was cut off by the other driver but I shouldn't have done what I did.  Again the conversation turned to about cars and I was given a warning (this was on Thanksgiving).
-  On a military base in 2013 I California stopped a stop sign and was pulled over the military police.  I knew the officer and told him I knew exactly why he pulled me over.  Again I was was let go with a warning, I guess the stop sign was a known traffic problem.

Honesty, being respectful, and apologizing can go a long way in terms of things going more smoothly when pulled over.  Nonetheless it isn't any guarantee that you won't get a ticket.  I've found that as I've gotten older that I tend to draw less attention as possibly being suspicions regarding the questions I get asked.  That makes sense since the most crime prone age group is males 18-25.  In the case of the registration deal back in 2007 I was asking if I was carrying drugs and if the officer could look in my trunk.  I told the officer politely no to both questions, he wasn't happy but he didn't have cause to look in there.  I don't think letting the consent search of the truck happen would have made a difference if I got a ticket or not in that particular instance given how direct that interaction was. 

With the not turning to the most extreme right lane ticket that was in the City of Tempe.  Given that had a penalty attached to it which was a moving violation I elected to go to traffic court class to get it waived.  I showed up early and struck up a conversation with the female officer who was conducting the class.  When she asked me what was there for I told her it was for not turning to the most extreme right lane.  She looked up my ticket and told me that the officer who pulled me over must have thought I was doing something else to bother with a minor infraction.  She then told me that she would waive the ticket and I didn't have to bother with the class since it could only be taken once in a certain number of years.  I was kind of tempted to ask for her number given she was around my age but I figured it was best not to push my luck and left. 

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 26, 2020, 11:57:31 AM
-  In 2016 I was pulled over on I-20 in western Texas for following a trucker at 500 feet at 70 MPH.  The State Trooper wanted to know someone with a Florida tag wasn't on I-10 and I handed him my travel order showing that I was moving to California.

This kind of crap should be illegal. We have freedom of movement and I should not have to justify why I'm on Road X when he thinks I should be using Road Y. If you didn't have a travel order is that a consent to search/detainment because he thinks you might be up to something?

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 27, 2020, 12:39:50 AM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 26, 2020, 11:57:31 AM
-  In 2016 I was pulled over on I-20 in western Texas for following a trucker at 500 feet at 70 MPH.  The State Trooper wanted to know someone with a Florida tag wasn't on I-10 and I handed him my travel order showing that I was moving to California.

This kind of crap should be illegal. We have freedom of movement and I should not have to justify why I'm on Road X when he thinks I should be using Road Y. If you didn't have a travel order is that a consent to search/detainment because he thinks you might be up to something?

I would still have to give my consent to search or the officer would have to get a search warrant for my vehicle.  All he was greeted with was a travel order in my hand and a big lab mix in the back seat. 

It was immediately apparent that there was disappointment with the traffic stop.  What I found strange was two things: one the officer slowed down in the left lane and followed me for five miles before finding a reason to pull me over.  That is a pretty desperate attempt to find even the most minor traffic violation, basically the tenant of a text book pretext stop.  Apparently being out at 6:30 AM was odd in the officer's opinion, I actually was out the hotel door late and didn't find that unusual to be on an Interstate Highway at that hour.  I guess all that effort to find anything of interest at 6:30 AM seemed over the top considering it was obvious what the officer was doing from the get-go. 

Second, why does Texas require an actual warning ticket to be printed?  Is that to keep records that a patrolman actually gave a warning?  Off the top of my head I can't think of another state that has warning tickets, there must be others. 

^^^^^^^^
I got a "warning ticket" on EB I-20 between Pecos and Monahans back in 2002; heading to Atlanta, it was my maiden out-of-state ticket in my then-new Sportage.  At that time posted at 75mph, the trooper got on at the US 285 interchange, pulled up behind me, and stayed there for at least six miles before hitting the red light.  He explained that my speed had been varying quite a bit over that stretch, and exceeding 75 in a couple of spots.  I explained that I had just purchased the vehicle and was trying to get the hang of the speed control (a previous Chrysler-built car had required speeding up to just above the desired speed and then backing off).  He seemed to be OK with that explanation and handed me the warning ticket for 79mph, stating that if I got a 2nd one in TX, it would be a real one the next time.  So I was extra-careful about my speed from that point on -- and was quite thankful when I crossed the line into LA that evening (overnighted in Shreveport). 

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 27, 2020, 12:39:50 AM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 26, 2020, 11:57:31 AM
-  In 2016 I was pulled over on I-20 in western Texas for following a trucker at 500 feet at 70 MPH.  The State Trooper wanted to know someone with a Florida tag wasn't on I-10 and I handed him my travel order showing that I was moving to California.

This kind of crap should be illegal. We have freedom of movement and I should not have to justify why I'm on Road X when he thinks I should be using Road Y. If you didn't have a travel order is that a consent to search/detainment because he thinks you might be up to something?

Reminds me of once when I had to pick up my college roomie in Ontario (vehicle died - no way to get back home otherwise).  Border guard on the way back asked me where I was headed.

I gave him my Massachusetts ID (and college ID) and said I was a student at Ithaca College.

He then asked why I was going to Ithaca when I have a MA ID.

...cue "Confused Jackie Chan" meme in my head...I had JUST TOLD HIM I was a student there.  🙄

I got pulled over on TX 302 (near Loving County) in a car with Utah plates.  Cop said it was due to speeding, but then didn't tell me what speed he caught me going at.  I was even idiotic enough to ask how fast I was going and he pointedly said something like, "Oh, I could definitely let you know if you really need to."  Left it at that.

He let me off with a warning.  It was pretty obvious the pullover was just for being out-of-staters.

So glad that NJ has solved murder, rape, robbery, general mayhem, dope dealing, and all of the other way to use the limited police resource, and can now worry about people driving safe and fast on roads designed to be driven safe and fast.

I'm 2 for 2 on getting pulled over and leaving with just a warning. First time was at the Hanover/Speedwell intersection in Morris Plains (quite notorious in the area and prone to extreme congestion) when the light went from yellow to red as I hit the line and I wasn't about to slam on the brakes and land 3/4 of the way through the intersection - apparently the officer waiting in the vacant lot on the corner disagreed! Thankfully he let me go with just a warning and said if I got caught running a light again it would be a real ticket. Second time was in Rockaway Twp, thought it was because I was going 40 in a 25 and started to freak out once I realized I had forgotten my license at home, but when he got to my window he only said my headlight was out and was more interested in talking about the college sticker in my back windshield than my speed or license. Got very lucky in both cases.

Quote from: Rothman on January 27, 2020, 09:30:50 AM
I got pulled over on TX 302 (near Loving County) in a car with Utah plates.  Cop said it was due to speeding, but then didn't tell me what speed he caught me going at.  I was even idiotic enough to ask how fast I was going and he pointedly said something like, "Oh, I could definitely let you know if you really need to."  Left it at that.

He let me off with a warning.  It was pretty obvious the pullover was just for being out-of-staters.

Same happened to me in Kansas this summer. He said I was "following too closely" behind a truck, which appears to be one of those nebulously-defined laws that basically leaves it up to cops for their own interpretation to apply when they want to stop someone so they can check on out of staters. He even made me get out of the car and come with him, giving him an excuse to pat down my pockets fdr drugs and weapons.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 26, 2020, 08:22:20 AMNo mention of my actual speed (I estimated about 76 or so), how much over the limit I was or the 55 limit. After I got home, even my wife commented that he didn't make us switch drivers! He just let a driver without their license continue to drive! The entire time he was at my car lasted about 45 seconds!

I'd say you got lucky.  If this had happened in Kansas, I am pretty sure you would have been ticketed for speeding (21 over is well above tolerance).  The law in Kansas (KSA § 8-244) does use the phrase "immediate possession" in regard to driver's licenses, though Kphoger is correct when he says one can avoid being prosecuted for failure to carry if one later takes the license to court or to the office of the arresting officer.

I have received two traffic tickets while driving, both in Kansas.  One was for speeding in 1995 (66 in a workzone 55 on K-177 between I-70 and Manhattan, which was then being widened from two-lane to four-lane divided), and the other was in 2019 for failure to come to a complete stop at a stop sign (I think the officer felt he had to write the ticket since I pulled out into a gap that was a bit narrower than I should have accepted).  Oddly enough, in the latter situation I was asked for license only, not registration.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 27, 2020, 12:53:49 AM
Second, why does Texas require an actual warning ticket to be printed?  Is that to keep records that a patrolman actually gave a warning?  Off the top of my head I can't think of another state that has warning tickets, there must be others. 

I've received a written warning in both Illinois and Kansas.

In Illinois, I was driving a truck for work and my written warning had three different issues (half of the license plate was missing, I was speeding, and something else).  When I got back, I told the office about getting a warning for the license plate.  They asked me for a copy of the warning, and I lied by telling them it was verbal only (not proud of that).  I didn't want them to see the speeding part.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 26, 2020, 08:22:20 AM
Then he said: "Nah, I don't feel like going back and looking it up. Just slow down a little". And walked away!

After I went home the other day, I started wondering if you were going to lose the ability to drive a work vehicle, because a speeding ticket that large would probably make you fail an MVR run.

I got pulled over in Kansas for speeding on my way back to Springfield, Mo., in a rental car, after the 2013 Wichita meet. It was a local deputy sheriff in some community along US 166. I was in a rental vehicle and gave him all the information I could find on the rental, including the contract and what was an outdated proof of insurance. Turns out, the guy was originally from Kentucky, knew the area where I live, and had lived in the town where I'd lived for six years. He said he'd called the rental company and read them the riot act, telling them he could have taken their customer to jail for not having valid proof of insurance, but was able to verify that the car did, indeed, have a valid insurance policy in force. He ran my driver's license and found I didn't have any warrants, and I can't remember if he wrote me a written warning for the speeding or not, but he was very pleasant and professional.

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 27, 2020, 12:39:50 AM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 26, 2020, 11:57:31 AM
-  In 2016 I was pulled over on I-20 in western Texas for following a trucker at 500 feet at 70 MPH.  The State Trooper wanted to know someone with a Florida tag wasn't on I-10 and I handed him my travel order showing that I was moving to California.

This kind of crap should be illegal. We have freedom of movement and I should not have to justify why I'm on Road X when he thinks I should be using Road Y.

Agreed. It's none of their damn business.

Quote from: LM117 on January 27, 2020, 04:24:23 PM

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 27, 2020, 12:39:50 AM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 26, 2020, 11:57:31 AM
-  In 2016 I was pulled over on I-20 in western Texas for following a trucker at 500 feet at 70 MPH.  The State Trooper wanted to know someone with a Florida tag wasn't on I-10 and I handed him my travel order showing that I was moving to California.

This kind of crap should be illegal. We have freedom of movement and I should not have to justify why I'm on Road X when he thinks I should be using Road Y.

Agreed. It's none of their damn business.

Well the problem is that a lot of people who are really up to something will answer the question or consent to search at that point.  The whole deal of finding a minor traffic violation to pull someone over when they are "suspicious"  is what is called a Pretext Stop.  Basically the premise is that you stop someone for something small and fish for some big like drug trafficking.  Granted the advent of plate scanners certainly makes finding people with warrants way easier than it used to be. 

I've only been pulled over once in my life, and that was in Crescent City, just after crossing into California on US 101.  It was late, we were looking for a motel, and my traveling companion pointed to one to the left.  I turned left without looking and cut off a California Highway Patrol man.  I only got a warning.  All this some years after watching CHiPs in the 70s.

Speaking of California, I noticed that the Agricultural Inspection Station in Meyers/South Lake Tahoe is right in the middle of town, so it would be easy to avoid it by just turning off the highway and driving local streets through town.  (The inspection station itself has a bypass lane.)  In that case, law enforcement might be looking for drivers who don't look local.

When a passport or enhanced ID became required to travel to or from Canada, I got a passport.  They recommended I copy it and carry the copy with me.  I did, and the first time I came back from Canada on Amtrak I lost my passport.  I had it that morning when I went into Canada, but I lost it since then.  I showed them the copy, and after a while they accepted it.  (This was back when the Customs agents would board the train in Blaine and inspect while the train traveled south to Bellingham.  Later they stopped the train for the whole time the agents interviewed the travelers, ran the dog down the train for drugs, etc, etc.)  Once they left, I tried again to search all over for my passport.  I finally found it between the wall and the seat.  Wouldn't you know it, the passport is made with the exact same blue color and texture leatherette as the train seat.  What a stupid coincidence that is.

I've noticed that their are some officers who are "Nicer & some that are "Ticket Friendly"

I've only received one speeding ticket before, and this was for a speed trap on a wavy road in good ol Elkton MD. which I should have fought but it was already a losing battle due to a little "green stuff". I received this ticket when I was 19.

My other tickets when I was 16 or 17 and they got me for front tint, and a headlight that was out which caused the initial pull over. I ended up only paying the Headlight out one and the Tint ticket was dropped.

One time a DMV mistake which said my license was suspended caused an officer to pull me officer on New Castle Ave in Delaware, I guess the officers were having a bad day because they pulled me over and said my License was suspended and then called 2 other cars for backup.

they cuffed My girlfriend, My friend and Me put us in the police cars, searched the vehicle and after they could not find anything he let them go back in the car and then kept me in the car to talk, He "thanked me for not lying about anything in the car and then tried to figure out why my License was suspended.

He let me out to get in my car, and after he did the 2nd officer was leaving, and I gave him the Middle Bird.

The 1st officer then comes back to my car with 3 tickets "Driving with a suspended license, failure to change address (I just moved) , and a 3rd ticket which was absurd. I had a couple words with the officer and then my girlfriend got into the driver and we drove off.

I was very upset that weekend and couldn't call the DMV till Monday. When I called finally on Monday they said "Oh did you get any tickets, I said "Yes" They said "Ok im sorry about that, come down to the DMV and get this paper proving your license was not suspended it was an accident on the DMV's part, they didn't update your record.

The tickets were dropped and that was the end of it.

Both of those stops were not bad, but I cant get mad because the officers are only doing their job.

on another note I have been pulled over 13 times in my driving career from 16 to 21 3 times ticketed 9 times a warning, but also I was given 2 fake tickets by officers because they couldn't find anything to ticket me for and probably felt pretty stupid.

Also city officers are less likely to give you a ticket when you are pulled over and it's more of a safety check.

Rural officers are more likely to give a ticket since I assume they are pretty bored.

I am Mixed so I can look anything from spanish to black. I am Black/indian/native american.

My god, how do you get pulled over 16-21 times by the age of 21?  I was only pulled once in High School for doing donuts in the High School Parking lot after a snow storm. 

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 25, 2020, 12:39:57 PM
So this happened last night. I'll let you guess the outcome and I'll post later today (or tomorrow or sometime...)
I was driving on 295 North in NJ woth my wife, and got stopped by a State Trooper.  I knew he caught me going about 76 in a 55 approaching Cherry Hill's Exit 34 (He was in an odd spot...I usually see them in the median there, but he was angled on the right shoulder this time). As I was pulling over, I realized my phone, which I had left home by accident, contained my license in the case pocket.
Cop pulls in behind me and approaches the car on the passenger side. Asks for my license, registration and insurance. As I pull put my reg and ins from the glove box, I tell him I don't have my license...
So. How did this turn out for me?

I just opened the thread now, and have only read this one post as I post the below.

His MDT (the computer in his car) should enable him to quickly look up your name and determine your driver's license info.  Your registration and insurance card and other info in your wallet would have your name.  His MDT would enable him to access state and federal databases to look up any other law enforcement info and DMV info that he might want to see.  This would take 5 minutes max.

If everything adds up there, he will know that you have a driver's license, and a good approach would be to not issue any charge for the license. 

As far as the speed I can't predict what he did there.

Besides the two incidents where I received tickets, I have been pulled over while driving and given warnings, including in two countries other than the US.

In Tuam, County Galway, Ireland, a garda pulled me over for passing a slow-moving farm tractor in a no-passing zone.  Britain has a get-out clause that makes it legal to pass in a no-overtaking zone as long as the vehicle being overtaken is moving at less than 10 MPH, but apparently this does not apply in Ireland.

In Chihuahua City, Mexico, I pulled up to a stoplight preparatory to turning onto avenida Flores Magón.  Seeing that there was no conflicting traffic, I turned while the signal was still red, forgetting for the moment that right turn on red is not legal in Mexico, or indeed in most countries other than the US and Canada.  A tránsito (traffic cop) pounced on me right away, in a scooter-like vehicle.  He took my license, studied it, handed it back, and decided to let me go.  I was sweating bullets not just because I was in a foreign country, but also because I was sitting in a car with a Kansas plate on a street named after a journalist and activist who died in federal prison in Leavenworth, Kansas.

Both of these incidents occurred long before consumer-grade GPS logging and StreetView were available, and just now I've struggled to re-find the locations.  In Tuam I think I may have been on what is now the R332 (the road in question had islands and was not far from the garda station), and in Chihuahua I was headed out of the city center for the Periférico.

In my 41+ years of driving, I've been pulled over exactly three times.

First time was in 1989 in my local neighborhood in Lynn, MA for failing to stop at a stop sign.  It was a blind corner where opposing cars would routinely cut the left turn, so I (like most others) would stop well short of the stop sign before proceeding into the intersection.  I note that there was also a large hedge on the right corner of the intersection, which the officer was standing behind.  I fought the ticket on the basis that, as the officer's view of my approach was blocked by the hedge, he couldn't see that I had stopped prior to the intersection.  The magistrate agreed with me and dropped the ticket.

Second time was in 2003 on a wide two lane arterial in Melrose MA when I passed someone slowing down, and signaling, for a left turn.  Noticed the traffic light at the next intersection change to yellow, so I made a hard stop (but didn't squeal my tires).  Officer working a construction detail then pulled me over for illegally passing on the right (which was untrue in this circumstance, per Massachusetts law).  After the officer checked my license and registration, I got away with a verbal warning after getting a short lecture from the officer about how he could have charged me with driving to endanger as well.

Third time was in 2018 on a two lane rural road outside of Portsmouth NH.  Was doing about 40 in a 30 zone, when I came over a rise to see the officer's SUV on the side of the road facing approaching traffic.  After I passed the SUV, I see the lights come on and the officer start following me.  Pulled over at the next wide spot.  Officer gets out, comes up and asks for license and registration, then asks me where I'm going.  Mentioned I was going to see (X), who lived about half a mile from where I was pulled over.  Officer then goes back to his SUV, runs my information, and then comes back.  Hands me my license and registration, and says "I'm giving you a verbal warning.  Just slow down from now on."  As I left, the officer followed me for a short distance, turned around, and went back to his spot just after the hill.

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 28, 2020, 01:05:12 PM
In Chihuahua City, Mexico, I pulled up to a stoplight preparatory to turning onto avenida Flores Magón.  Seeing that there was no conflicting traffic, I turned while the signal was still red, forgetting for the moment that right turn on red is not legal in Mexico, or indeed in most countries other than the US and Canada.  A tránsito (traffic cop) pounced on me right away, in a scooter-like vehicle.  He took my license, studied it, handed it back, and decided to let me go. 

---

As in the USA, this law varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

As for the state of Chihuahua specifically...

Quote from: Folleto Anexo al Periódico Oficial:  Reglamiento de Vialidad y Tránsito para el Estado de Chihuahua (5/26/2007)
Capítulo II:  De las señales y dispositivos del control de tránsito

Artículo 78 – En las vialidades y cruceros en que se controle el tránsito a través del uso de los semáforos, se procederá de la siguiente manera:

V.  Frente a la luz roja de un semáforo, los conductores detendrán la marcha del vehículo precisamente sobre la línea de alto marcada sobre la superficie de rodamiento, sin invadir la zona de cruce peatonal. Cuando exista luz roja y después de hacer alto total, una vez cerciorado que no estén cruzando peatones o vehículos con preferencia de paso, el conductor podrá dar vuelta a la derecha o continuar su circulación en carril de flujo continuo, procediendo con extrema precaución;

My translation: 

Article 78 – On roads and intersections in which traffic is controlled by the use of signals, one shall proceed as follows:

V.  Facing a red light on a signal, drivers shall stop the vehicle's progress precisely at the stop line marked on the driving surface, without invading the pedestrian crossing area.  When there is a red light and after coming to a complete stop, upon ascertaining that there are no pedestrians or vehicles crossing with priority, the driver may turn right or continue his maneuver in a continuous flow lane with extreme caution;

A "continuous flow lane" such as mentioned in the statute would be indicated with the post-mounted sign illustrated below.  About this sign, the SCT manual states:

Quote from: Manual de Señalización Vial y Dispositivos de Seguridad, SCT 2014
Capítulo II:  Señalamiento vertical

II.2.  Señales restrictivas (SR)

II.2.7.  Uso de las señales restrictivas

SR-10 VUELTA CONTINUA DERECHA

Se emplea en las intersecciones controladas por semáforos en las cuales está permitida la vuelta derecha en forma continua aunque para el tránsito que siga de frente se indique ALTO.

Esta señal solamente se utilizará cuando pueda garantizarse que el paso de peatones tenga prioridad y éste sea respetado por los conductores de vehículos.

My translation:


It is used at intersections controlled by signals at which a continuous right turn is permitted, even though for traffic that continues straight ahead STOP is indicated.  This signal shall only be used when one can ensure that the crosswalk has priority and that such is respected by the drivers of vehicles.

---

tl;dr – Absent a local city ordinance to the contrary, your turn was legal if there was a sign matching the one above, but it was illegal if not.  At least, that has been true since at least 2007.

21 mph over the limit and no ticket doesn't shock me at all. In NY it would be rare to even get pulled over at all for 15 over or less, and you might even get away 15 to 20 over (but, word to the wise, I wouldn't exceed 70 in a 55 zone or 80 in a 65 zone). That said though, it's just a totally different game here than it is in the Midwest and West, because it's so incredibly, painstakingly, spectacularly obvious that the limits are too low, and not just a little too low, but not even in the right ballpark.

Enforce 65 mph on the Thruway, one of the highest quality roads in the US, if not the world? *snickers*
Enforce 55 mph on a freeway that's actually flowing in the NYC area? *chuckles*
Enforce 35 mph on a road like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1621099,-77.4751248,3a,75y,347.8h,87.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sa2d2cREFE4VZa-ZfjZEGYQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Da2d2cREFE4VZa-ZfjZEGYQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D1.3661407%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1)? *laughs out loud*

So the speeding part doesn't surprise me one bit, but the no license thing is another whole level! :-o

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 28, 2020, 12:47:20 PM
My god, how do you get pulled over 16-21 times by the age of 21?

That is quite the accomplishment, without a doubt.

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 28, 2020, 02:34:25 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 28, 2020, 12:47:20 PM
My god, how do you get pulled over 16-21 times by the age of 21?

That is quite the accomplishment, without a doubt.

It was actually 13 times (confusion due to lack of punctuation), but still.

I've been pulled over 5 times in 31 years of driving:
1990 - pulled over for doing 69 in a 55 coming downhill from the Tuscarora Tunnel on the PA Turnpike...got a ticket.
1994 - pulled over for doing 45 in a 35 in Medford NJ in one of those traps where the road went from 50 to 35 and the cop was sitting right after the first 35 sign.  I got a ticket and decided not to fight it since the hassle of driving 90 min to court wasn't worth it.
1996 - pulled over for supposedly doing 50 in a 35 in Valley Forge Natl Park...I wasn't...and I actually argued w the ranger for a little but he decided to give me a verbal warning.
2005 - pulled over for rolling a stop sign in Letchworth State Park in NY...which I did, and was given a warning.
2011 - pulled over for not yielding to a pedestrian in a mid-block crosswalk on East Main St in Rochester NY.  East Main St has 4 driving lanes and 2 parking lanes there.  I was in the far right driving eastbound, and the pedestrian just stepped off the curb on the westbound side.  I didn't argue but I said I had no idea why he pulled me over, so he mentioned the crosswalk. The cop ran supposedly ran my info and then said that since everything checked out, he was just giving me a warning.  What he didn't notice was that I was 2 months overdue on my inspection (but not my registration since they weren't aligned).

IN all those cases (except for the Valley Forge one), I was cooperative and didn't attempt to argue.

I've been also pulled over as a passenger twice;
New Years Day 1995 - was in a friends car in Valley Forge Park...a ranger pulls behind her from a side road but with no lights.  She panics because her registration was overdue by one day, and makes a quick turn onto a side road.  Ranger hits the lights and pulls us over.  He commented on the registration and then claimed he smelled weed so he asked to search, to which she agreed.  He found two joints (I had no clue she smoked), to which he cuffed her, asked me to get out of the car, did a pat search on me and found nothing.  He then searched the rest of the car and found nothing.  He told me that he didn't think I had anything to do with that, gave her a citation for both the registration and the possession, and made me drive the car.

1996 - my friend and I were going down a hill in his '95 Firebird in a town marked at 25 - this hill is known for speed traps so we were going 25 in 2nd gear, but cop pulls behind us, follows us for three blocks, then hits the lights.  He gave us attitude and claimed we were speeding, but we argued, and then we sat there for a good 15 min before he ended giving us a verbal warning.  My friends dad had a police scanner and he told us that he had it on and heard the plates being run four times and asked us if anything happened...which it didn't.

Quote from: kphoger on January 28, 2020, 02:02:01 PMtl;dr – Absent a local city ordinance to the contrary, your turn was legal if there was a sign matching the one above, but it was illegal if not.  At least, that has been true since at least 2007.

Thanks for digging up the Chihuahua traffic code and the right-turn-restriction sign from the latest MDCT.  It looks like Mexico is in the early stages of rolling out RTOR since using a sign to indicate specific locations where RTOR is permitted is more restrictive than the American model (which also applies to Canada outside the ÃŽle-de-Montréal), where RTOR is legal by default except at locations indicated by signs.

The incident in question happened around New Year's Day 2003.  I didn't see SR-10 signs at any intersections I encountered, let alone the one where I was pulled over.

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 28, 2020, 03:26:07 PM
It looks like Mexico is in the early stages of rolling out RTOR since using a sign to indicate specific locations where RTOR is permitted is more restrictive than the American model (which also applies to Canada outside the ÃŽle-de-Montréal), where RTOR is legal by default except at locations indicated by signs.

The incident in question happened around New Year's Day 2003.

That's the earliest reference I can easily find online.  If you have an older file of Mexican traffic laws, I'd be happy to thumb through them.

Quote from: kphoger on January 28, 2020, 02:41:34 PM

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 28, 2020, 02:34:25 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 28, 2020, 12:47:20 PM
My god, how do you get pulled over 16-21 times by the age of 21?

That is quite the accomplishment, without a doubt.

It was actually 13 times (confusion due to lack of punctuation), but still.

Still impressive in a maximum five year span. 

In British Columbia in 1999 I sped past a temporary photo radar installation.  I saw the permanent sign for the possible installation, and I knew the speed in kilometers.  I still exceeded the speed limit as I saw the van by the road, and then the flash as I went by.  I wondered if they would mail a ticket internationally, and they didn't.  They never mentioned it on future border crossings, and I've long since crossed with newer cars.

During visits to Cozumel, I recall seeing signs at some traffic lights that had a right-turn arrow with "Continua con precaucion" (or something very similar) underneath. I interpreted that as authorizing right on red after a stop.

Quote from: webny99 on January 28, 2020, 02:25:55 PM
80 in a 65 zone

Can't comment on New York, but doing 80 - 85 mph on the New Jersey Turnpike is the norm. On my most recent trip, rarely saw anybody traveling below 75 mph and was passed multiple times when cruising at 78 mph. At one point I punched it to 85 mph and joined a flow for a little while, but then slowed to around 70 mph once it dropped to 55 mph.

Really in almost every state you're more than likely not going to a target by a highway patrol for speeding until you cross the felony threshold.  Most highway patrols generally frown upon their officers writing high volumes of misdemeanor tickets for speeding.  Most officers don't even like writing misdemeanor tickets because of the paperwork involved. 

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 28, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
Really in almost every state you're more than likely not going to a target by a highway patrol for speeding until you cross the felony threshold.  Most highway patrols generally frown upon their officers writing high volumes of misdemeanor tickets for speeding.  Most officers don't even like writing misdemeanor tickets because of the paperwork involved.

In Virginia, merely 10 mph over in a 70 mph is considered "reckless driving"  and is punishable with high fines and potential jail time. State police or localities running speed traps on the highways (Emporia and Hopewell come to mind) will not ticket until you hit 80 mph so they can take in the most revenue.

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 28, 2020, 08:38:32 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 28, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
Really in almost every state you're more than likely not going to a target by a highway patrol for speeding until you cross the felony threshold.  Most highway patrols generally frown upon their officers writing high volumes of misdemeanor tickets for speeding.  Most officers don't even like writing misdemeanor tickets because of the paperwork involved.

In Virginia, merely 10 mph over in a 70 mph is considered "reckless driving"  and is punishable with high fines and potential jail time. State police or localities running speed traps on the highways (Emporia and Hopewell come to mind) will not ticket until you hit 80 mph so they can take in the most revenue.

Here in California the laws on speeding are surprisingly lax, especially when it is under 100 MPH.  CHP has a long standing edict of "9 you're fine, 10 you're mine"  that the officers are supposed to follow.  On freeways speeds of 10-20 MPH over are common and surface highways 5-10 MPH is the norm.  You could in theory bit hit for driving at an unsafe speed based on road conditions but I've never of heard anyone receiving a ticket for that.  A lot of roads aren't even signed with speed limits which presumptively bumps it up to 55 MPH aside from school zones or railroad crossings.  The big speed tickets come from doing 100 MPH or more. 

Back in Arizona even DPS usually wouldn't go after speeders unless it was 11 MPH or over.  Interestingly 85 MPH is considered criminal speeding no matter what.  I've found that eastern states generally take speed limits far more seriously than they do out west.  The big exception seems to be Oregon which tends to some really aggressive enforcement zones in areas with low speed limits, particularly on freeways. 

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 28, 2020, 08:38:32 PM
In Virginia, merely 10 mph over in a 70 mph is considered "reckless driving"  and is punishable with high fines and potential jail time. State police or localities running speed traps on the highways (Emporia and Hopewell come to mind) will not ticket until you hit 80 mph so they can take in the most revenue.

Actually 81 is the threshold and according to news reports those sites don't ticket until over 85 and then rarely reckless if speed is the only issue, and the ones that were jailed were going near 100 or more (and IMO they deserve a few days in jail).

The only speeding ticket I have ever gotten in 1.1 million miles and 50 years was for 15 over and that was on Labor Day in Cumberland C.H., and that was my misfortune, I missed the speed reduction signs on US-60.  I routinely travel at 5 to 7 over everywhere.

 

Quote from: webny99 on January 28, 2020, 02:25:55 PM
21 mph over the limit and no ticket doesn't shock me at all. In NY it would be rare to even get pulled over at all for 15 over or less, and you might even get away 15 to 20 over (but, word to the wise, I wouldn't exceed 70 in a 55 zone or 80 in a 65 zone). That said though, it's just a totally different game here than it is in the Midwest and West, because it's so incredibly, painstakingly, spectacularly obvious that the limits are too low, and not just a little too low, but not even in the right ballpark.

Enforce 65 mph on the Thruway, one of the highest quality roads in the US, if not the world? *snickers*
Enforce 55 mph on a freeway that's actually flowing in the NYC area? *chuckles*
Enforce 35 mph on a road like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1621099,-77.4751248,3a,75y,347.8h,87.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sa2d2cREFE4VZa-ZfjZEGYQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Da2d2cREFE4VZa-ZfjZEGYQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D1.3661407%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1)? *laughs out loud*

So the speeding part doesn't surprise me one bit, but the no license thing is another whole level! :-o

FYI, the maximum in NYC is 50, not 55.  Even here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5718556,-74.1899037,3a,75y,22.41h,96.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siKlUGhbZXfAFOYtOJBmUfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).

Quote from: ErmineNotyours on January 28, 2020, 03:46:41 PM
They never mentioned it on future border crossings, and I've long since crossed with newer cars.

They wouldn't.  CBSA only enforces federal law, not provincial.

Let's see if I can remember all mine...

---First car had a bad speedometer...didn't know it originally---
1989 - 60 in 45 on US-6 in North Truro, MA (though I was radared before the speed reduction from 50-45) - warning (cop was my uncle)
1990 - 64 in 55 on Mass Turnpike - ticket
1991 - Headlight failure in Provincetown, MA - warning (turned out to be a bad wiring harness)
1991 - 72 in 55 on I-88 in NY State - ticket
---At this point, I realized I had a bad speedometer...no more stops in 1st car...or 2nd---

---3rd car---
1996 - 45 in 35 on MA-28 in S Yarmouth, MA - warning
1997 - 65 in 55 on US-6 in Yarmouth, MA - warning
1998 - 78 in 65 on Ohio Turnpike - ticket
1999 - 81 in 55 on I-79 in Pennsylvania - ticket (to be fair though, I was on a downhill surrounded by big rigs...I couldn't go slower...cop picked me and my MN plates out)

--4th car, had a bad bouncey speedometer...which was the LEAST of its troubles--
2000 - 76 in 55 on I-35E in Eagan, MN - ticket (cop was sitting right at thepoint where limit dropped from 70 to 55)
2001 - 81 in 55 on MN-100 in Edina, MN - ticket (last ticket until 2016)

--5th car--
2004 - 65 in 55 on US-212 (Ave of Saints) in Iowa - warning (at the time, there were still 2-lane sections...this was one of them...limit was 65 on divided sections)
2004 - Failure to lane change around traffic stop - warning (was a brand new law at the time in MN)
2005 - 40 in 30 on MSP Airport Post Office access road - warning

--6th car--
2007 - Suspected DUI - blew 0.00 (it was my passenger that had been drinking) - no infraction

--7th car--
2011 - 78 in 70 on I-35 in Minnesota - warning

--current car--
2016 - 70 in 60 on I-35E in St. Paul, MN - ticket

Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 02:43:43 AM
--7th car--
2011 - 78 in 70 on I-35 in Minnesota - warning

--current car--
2016 - 70 in 60 on I-35E in St. Paul, MN - ticket

You've gotta be kidding me

Quote from: jakeroot on January 29, 2020, 03:03:33 AM

Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 02:43:43 AM
--7th car--
2011 - 78 in 70 on I-35 in Minnesota - warning

--current car--
2016 - 70 in 60 on I-35E in St. Paul, MN - ticket

You've gotta be kidding me

I wish I was....

My ex's father once got a ticket for 32 in 30 on  a street in Deephaven, too.

Also, that final stop was the first time I gave digital proof of insurance.  I have a Geico app on my phone.

Quote from: jakeroot on January 29, 2020, 03:03:33 AM

Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 02:43:43 AM
--7th car--
2011 - 78 in 70 on I-35 in Minnesota - warning

--current car--
2016 - 70 in 60 on I-35E in St. Paul, MN - ticket

You've gotta be kidding me

Seriously.  The normal flow of traffic on I-35 between Iowa and the Cities is usually around 80 mph, with probably at least 10% of vehicles going more like 85 mph.  And 70 mph is my usual driving speed on I-35E.

One time, I was doing 75 mph on MN-100 SB, which is posted at 55 mph.  We were heading home to Wichita from...hmm, I think maybe Princeton.  I saw flashing red and blue lights that may or may not have been for me, so I quickly exited onto MN-62 EB and then exited from that onto I-35W SB.

Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 03:24:39 AM

Quote from: jakeroot on January 29, 2020, 03:03:33 AM

Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 02:43:43 AM
--current car--
2016 - 70 in 60 on I-35E in St. Paul, MN - ticket

You've gotta be kidding me

I wish I was....

My ex's father once got a ticket for 32 in 30 on  a street in Deephaven, too.

Did such occur towards the end of the month and/or on a holiday weekend?  Such tickets, on the surface, appear to be quota-induced.

Quotas don't exist.

[/sarcasm]

Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2020, 10:42:30 AM
Quotas don't exist.

[/sarcasm]

Sorry, revenue/fund-raising.  :sombrero:

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 28, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
Really in almost every state you're more than likely not going to a target by a highway patrol for speeding until you cross the felony threshold.  Most highway patrols generally frown upon their officers writing high volumes of misdemeanor tickets for speeding.  Most officers don't even like writing misdemeanor tickets because of the paperwork involved. 

As a close relative of a state trooper, I can confirm this.  Some officers are a bit more ticket-happy than others, but on the whole they are focused more on improving road safety rather than punishing drivers.  If you don't have an aggravating factor like being a habitual offender, invalid license or registration, no insurance, etc, you're pretty likely to get just a warning.  It's just as likely to correct the behavior, without the paperwork and also without leaving the driver with a negative opinion of police.  Being cooperative also helps a lot. 

Local jurisdictions, especially the smaller ones, tend to be more reliant on ticket revenue and are where you're more likely to get tickets for every minor violation they can find.

In NY, I believe State Troopers' flexibility in issuing warnings was reduced by law a few years ago.  The chances of getting a ticket rather than a warning from a Trooper are more than 50/50 (although the last time I was stopped by one, I got a warning).

All you guys saying cops will give 15-20 over out east have me baffled. I won't go more than 5 over in the Midwest, and especially not out of state. They're not forgiving.

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 29, 2020, 12:16:49 PM
All you guys saying cops will give 15-20 over out east have me baffled. I won't go more than 5 over in the Midwest, and especially not out of state. They're not forgiving.

Just stay in the right lane, then.

Quote from: Rothman on January 29, 2020, 12:18:06 PM

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 29, 2020, 12:16:49 PM
All you guys saying cops will give 15-20 over out east have me baffled. I won't go more than 5 over in the Midwest, and especially not out of state. They're not forgiving.

Just stay in the right lane, then.

Heh, even at limit or +5 I feel like I've been one of the faster cars on the road lately.

Minnesota drivers are, in my experience, not typical of drivers in the Midwest.  They go closer to the speed limit, and they have absolutely no concept of slower traffic keeping right.  In Iowa, in contrast, I hardly ever see anybody hogging the left lane or doing less than 5 over the limit on the Interstate.

Don't believe anyone who tells you cops don't have a quota. They do, especially if there's a federal grant involved. A hometown friend of mine, now deceased, was a cop. I ran into him one morning when I was off work; we had both moved to the same town then but hadn't run into each other in awhile. He said he didn't have time to talk long; that he had to write a certain number of speeding tickets because he was being paid on a federal overtime grant for his work that day. Sure enough, I passed by him with a driver pulled over just a few minutes later.

The big NHTSA campaigns ("Drive Sober or Get Pulled Over," and "Click It Or Ticket") have quotas attached to the grants as well. Participating agencies are expected to report a certain number of tickets written.

Quote from: hbelkins on January 29, 2020, 01:59:48 PM
Don't believe anyone who tells you cops don't have a quota. They do, especially if there's a federal grant involved. A hometown friend of mine, now deceased, was a cop. I ran into him one morning when I was off work; we had both moved to the same town then but hadn't run into each other in awhile. He said he didn't have time to talk long; that he had to write a certain number of speeding tickets because he was being paid on a federal overtime grant for his work that day. Sure enough, I passed by him with a driver pulled over just a few minutes later.

The big NHTSA campaigns ("Drive Sober or Get Pulled Over," and "Click It Or Ticket") have quotas attached to the grants as well. Participating agencies are expected to report a certain number of tickets written.

It's not a quota anymore, it's a "performance metric."

Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2020, 01:13:40 PMMinnesota drivers are, in my experience, not typical of drivers in the Midwest.  They go closer to the speed limit, and they have absolutely no concept of slower traffic keeping right.  In Iowa, in contrast, I hardly ever see anybody hogging the left lane or doing less than 5 over the limit on the Interstate.

Isn't Minnesota one of the states that doesn't have a KRETP statute?

I confess I haven't noticed Minnesota drivers are more or less likely to comply with speed limits, but this is largely because I usually set cruise control at the limit (or 72 in a 75) and typically exceed it only in the context of overtaking maneuvers.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 29, 2020, 02:27:06 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on January 29, 2020, 01:59:48 PM
Don't believe anyone who tells you cops don't have a quota. They do, especially if there's a federal grant involved. A hometown friend of mine, now deceased, was a cop. I ran into him one morning when I was off work; we had both moved to the same town then but hadn't run into each other in awhile. He said he didn't have time to talk long; that he had to write a certain number of speeding tickets because he was being paid on a federal overtime grant for his work that day. Sure enough, I passed by him with a driver pulled over just a few minutes later.

The big NHTSA campaigns ("Drive Sober or Get Pulled Over," and "Click It Or Ticket") have quotas attached to the grants as well. Participating agencies are expected to report a certain number of tickets written.

It's not a quota anymore, it's a "performance metric."

Exactly.  It's not a quota, but you'll get a bad performance review if you don't meet the expectation.  At least, I assume that's how it works.

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 29, 2020, 03:11:28 PM
Isn't Minnesota one of the states that doesn't have a KRETP statute?

Minnesota doesn't have a KRETP statute, but it's still the law that you have to move out of the left lane for faster traffic.

Quote from: 2019 Minnesota Statutes
TRANSPORTATION

Chapter 169

169.18  DRIVING RULES.

§  Subd. 10.  Slower vehicles.

(b) Upon a roadway with more than one lane in the same direction of travel, a person must move out of the left-most lane to allow another vehicle to pass, when practicable under existing conditions. A left-most lane under this paragraph is the lane adjacent to one designated and posted for a specific type of traffic, including as provided under section 160.93. This paragraph does not apply when:

(1) overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction;

(2) preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway;

(3) preparing to exit a controlled-access highway on the left side of the road;

(4) the lane is designated and posted for a specific type of traffic; or

(5) the vehicle is an authorized emergency vehicle.

That doesn't mean people do so, however.

The state patrol pretty much admitted recently that statute as written is unenforceable, and that they're more interested in hammering the tailgater/leadfoot waiting to floor it once the slower driver moves right.

One issue I notice here is inconsistent speed. Plenty of idiots I'm passing suddenly speed up when they notice they're being passed.

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 29, 2020, 04:29:02 PM
The state patrol pretty much admitted recently that statute as written is unenforceable

What part makes it so?  It seems plainly worded to me.

Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2020, 04:34:50 PM

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 29, 2020, 04:29:02 PM
The state patrol pretty much admitted recently that statute as written is unenforceable

What part makes it so?  It seems plainly worded to me.

Basically, not a priority for them compared to other enforcement issues.

Quote
Will a lot of tickets be handed out for this?

Probably not. The State Patrol, for one, isn't planning a special campaign to cite slower drivers. It wants to educate them on the law, but Langer said enforcement won't rise to the level of combating distracted driving, excessive speed or other unsafe conditions that can put lives at greater danger.

The other big traffic safety law about to set in – making it illegal to hold a cellphone while operating a vehicle – will have a much bigger emphasis out of the gate.

Are speeders being given priority over those abiding by the posted limit?

No. In fact, Langer of the State Patrol expects drivers going over the limit to still be a greater focus for law enforcement.

"Those are the motorists we're going to be looking for, that we always are looking for. We're definitely focused on speeding because speeding is one of the leading contributors to fatal and injury crashes and property damage crashes,"  he said. "That person holding up traffic in the left lane can cause problems, can cause frustration, can lead to aggressive driving, but isn't the contributor toward fatal and injury crashes."

As Gov. Tim Walz put it during a news conference Monday, "It's not a free-for-all to go as fast as you can. It's simply to make sure that the flow of traffic works in the most efficient and safe manner."

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/07/29/drive-right-law-directs-slower-motorists-to-move-over

Which I suppose isn't the "unenforceable" I stated, but the MSP thinks other things are more important.

As is the case in other states as well.

Quote from: kphoger on January 29, 2020, 01:13:40 PM
Minnesota drivers are, in my experience, not typical of drivers in the Midwest.  They go closer to the speed limit, and they have absolutely no concept of slower traffic keeping right.  In Iowa, in contrast, I hardly ever see anybody hogging the left lane or doing less than 5 over the limit on the Interstate.

I've noticed that with Minnesotans as well.  Michiganders are rarely any lower than 10 over the 70 mph limit (especially in Metro Detroit).  However, Chicagoans are all over the freaking place.  Left lane slow, right lane fast, jackass trying to do 45 in the middle lane while another goes 95 up his ass.

I agree about Minnesota. It's generally a weird combination of big-city entitlement vibes (even on rural interstates), insistence on the speed limit, and toss in some follow-the-leader for good measure. They seem to just be totally OK with a whole bunch of lanes moving at the same speed.

Not always slow, though! I've been in a whole pack moving at an 85 mph clip in a 65 mph zone - and not in the middle of nowhere either - it was on MN 77 in Eagan, as I recall.

I have also had relatives from the upper Midwest express shock that we would thinking nothing of doing 80 mph on the Thruway.

Quote from: PHLBOS on January 29, 2020, 10:40:56 AM

Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 03:24:39 AM

Quote from: jakeroot on January 29, 2020, 03:03:33 AM

Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 02:43:43 AM
--current car--
2016 - 70 in 60 on I-35E in St. Paul, MN - ticket

You've gotta be kidding me

I wish I was....

My ex's father once got a ticket for 32 in 30 on  a street in Deephaven, too.

Did such occur towards the end of the month and/or on a holiday weekend?  Such tickets, on the surface, appear to be quota-induced.

My 2016 ticket was in mid-June

Quote from: kphoger on January 28, 2020, 03:45:49 PMThat's the earliest reference I can easily find online.  If you have an older file of Mexican traffic laws, I'd be happy to thumb through them.

I'm afraid I don't have any files for traffic laws, but I did dig up the 1986 edition of the MDCT and it has SR-10.  I now suspect that sign is to be used to mark right-turn channel lanes similar to those that in the US do not require a full stop.

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 30, 2020, 11:51:09 AM

Quote from: kphoger on January 28, 2020, 03:45:49 PM
That's the earliest reference I can easily find online.  If you have an older file of Mexican traffic laws, I'd be happy to thumb through them.

I'm afraid I don't have any files for traffic laws, but I did dig up the 1986 edition of the MDCT and it has SR-10.  I now suspect that sign is to be used to mark right-turn channel lanes similar to those that in the US do not require a full stop.

Article 78, which I quoted up-thread, specifically says that traffic in a "carril de flujo continuo" still has to come to a complete stop and yield to other traffic and pedestrians.  Furthermore, my own personal experience is that right-turn channel lanes are signed merely with yield signs, stop signs, or nothing at all (example (https://goo.gl/maps/KqiePdSqoB6jrM9UA), example (https://goo.gl/maps/mhDFYpkeK7R4RbNg8), example with both (https://goo.gl/maps/XJEwA9cWWjBSrToY7)).  I've only ever seen the SR-10 sign (and I've seen many of them) at normal stoplight intersections without channel lanes (example (https://goo.gl/maps/yb9rowwuuXiqgEHK7), example (https://goo.gl/maps/fwbJyG4NaTw3VQXD9), example (https://goo.gl/maps/hsFmFzLJY5yW2icU9), example (https://goo.gl/maps/9EkQhgZGjQmqz7hMA)).

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Quote from: webny99 on January 29, 2020, 09:52:28 PM
They seem to just be totally OK with a whole bunch of lanes moving at the same speed.

This describes Minnesota perfectly.  Nobody bothers to keep right at all, but nobody seems to be bothered by it either.  It drives me nuts when I'm up there, however.

My first time getting pulled over was when I was 16 by the local city police (Crandall PD). The inspection sticker had expired on my car. I told them I would get my stepdad on that since he was the owner of the car and I didn't know how to do it since I was 16, and he let me off with a warning.

My second time was Crandall PD again, this time because my "back license plate light was uncovered". Crandall PD is known in the area for being racist and profiling, so if I wasn't a white guy I'm sure it would have went differently.

The third time was Crandall PD again, for going 83 in a 70 and possibly trying to enforce curfew. This was around 1am on a Saturday night and I was a minor, but there was an exception for kids who were working, and I had just finished closing at Sonic. He let me off with a warning.

Fourth time was for speeding, he didn't tell me how fast exactly but it was probably low 60's in a 45. The cop said "if I catch you speeding in my town again, you're getting a ticket" in a thick Southern accent. This was Combine PD, not far from Crandall.

The fifth time was Crandall PD yet again, for 87 in a 55. I know it was stupid, and I was a dumb 18-year-old. Obviously I got a ticket for this one.

The sixth and most recent time was a Louisiana State Trooper, on I-20 near Ruston. He told me "We normally don't give tickets unless you're going 10 over or higher. You were going 81 [in a 70], so you're getting a ticket." Somehow I resisted the urge to call him an asshole.

Quote from: debragga on January 30, 2020, 05:00:52 PM
The sixth and most recent time was a Louisiana State Trooper, on I-20 near Ruston. He told me "We normally don't give tickets unless you're going 10 over or higher. You were going 81 [in a 70], so you're getting a ticket." Somehow I resisted the urge to call him an asshole.

Meanwhile somebody else flies by doing 90 mph while he's wasting his time with you.

I've driven that segment of I-20 before, people routinely do well over 80 mph, many out of state plates.

Quote from: hbelkins on January 29, 2020, 01:59:48 PM
Don't believe anyone who tells you cops don't have a quota. They do, especially if there's a federal grant involved. A hometown friend of mine, now deceased, was a cop. I ran into him one morning when I was off work; we had both moved to the same town then but hadn't run into each other in awhile. He said he didn't have time to talk long; that he had to write a certain number of speeding tickets because he was being paid on a federal overtime grant for his work that day. Sure enough, I passed by him with a driver pulled over just a few minutes later.

The big NHTSA campaigns ("Drive Sober or Get Pulled Over," and "Click It Or Ticket") have quotas attached to the grants as well. Participating agencies are expected to report a certain number of tickets written.

In Massachusetts, the state troopers are ripping us off by claiming they worked OT and a chunk of the money comes from federal grants. The good news is since our AG is completely useless, the feds can and do indict them instead. Now the state has finally started going after them as well. So... they find multiple ways of banking off the grants.

Quote from: DJ Particle on January 29, 2020, 02:43:43 AM
2000 - 76 in 55 on I-35E in Eagan, MN - ticket (cop was sitting right at thepoint where limit dropped from 70 to 55)

That is one of the dumbest speed changes in the Twin Cities. I too have been pulled over for that one, although I only got a warning.

Quote from: vdeane on January 28, 2020, 09:23:12 PM

Quote from: webny99 on January 28, 2020, 02:25:55 PM
Enforce 55 mph on a freeway that's actually flowing in the NYC area? *chuckles*
...

FYI, the maximum in NYC is 50, not 55.  Even here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5718556,-74.1899037,3a,75y,22.41h,96.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siKlUGhbZXfAFOYtOJBmUfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).

I was actually thinking of just the NYC area in general, but yes, 50 is even more egregious than 55, so there's that.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 28, 2020, 12:47:20 PM
My god, how do you get pulled over 16-21 times by the age of 21?  I was only pulled once in High School for doing donuts in the High School Parking lot after a snow storm.

You can thank the people around my age of 16-25 for behaving like idiots and causing people our age to be looked at differently, I am glad its happening less now though.

Quote from: Tonytone on February 02, 2020, 09:59:14 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 28, 2020, 12:47:20 PM
My god, how do you get pulled over 16-21 times by the age of 21?  I was only pulled once in High School for doing donuts in the High School Parking lot after a snow storm.

You can thank the people around my age of 16-25 for behaving like idiots and causing people our age to be looked at differently, I am glad its happening less now though.

I might buy that would lead to you getting pulled over maybe once, twice, but over a dozen times?....  :eyebrow:

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2020, 10:22:09 PM

Quote from: Tonytone on February 02, 2020, 09:59:14 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 28, 2020, 12:47:20 PM
My god, how do you get pulled over 16-21 times by the age of 21?  I was only pulled once in High School for doing donuts in the High School Parking lot after a snow storm.

You can thank the people around my age of 16-25 for behaving like idiots and causing people our age to be looked at differently, I am glad its happening less now though.

I might buy that would lead to you getting pulled over maybe once, twice, but over a dozen times?....  :eyebrow:

I really would like to say otherwise I dont want to make my color be the reason for it..........

Generally, after a few times getting pulled over, you would think 1 of 2 things would happen: (1) (if you're unlucky) you would lose your license, or (2) (if you're lucky enough to avoid (1)) you would figure out what type of problem is causing you to get pulled over, and figure out how to keep it from happening again.

That's after a few times. After a few more, and a few more, and a few more, in a span of five years, it is strange, and even borderline unbelievable, that neither of those things happened.

I've only been pulled over once, for doing 45 in a 35 on Old US 1416 eastbound into New Underwood. The state trooper that pulled me over said that when I came over the hill I was doing 42 and he would have let that slide if I hadn't (for some dumb reason I don't even know) coasted down the hill back up to 45. He also said that most state troopers in SD only care if you're doing 10 or more over unless it's the Interstate (the 80 mph speed limit portion). I was let off with a warning.

Here's the best part: I wasn't in my own car. I was in a maroon Ford Taurus with state plates and a brake pedal on the passenger side. The cop was a little surprised by this. I guess driver's ed cars aren't that common here.