Last week, I drove Interstate 80, end-to-end in Pennsylvania, while traveling between New England and Ohio. It's quite the interesting road to drive and a relatively quiet road, meaning it bypasses all the major cities and is a solid 2 lanes each way throughout. Once you get east of I-380, however, it sees a lot more traffic.
Anyways...
Throughout I-80 there are what I call criss-crosses. They appear to be in place before overpasses, which facilitate the closing of one side of an overpass in order to replace the other side. In some cases, these criss-crosses are still paved, in others, they are dirt or just graded. An example of one is here: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0673255,-77.0612173,288m/data=!3m1!1e3
So is this a PA thing? There wasn't a single active bridge reconstruction project along the route, but there they were. Were these put in as part of the original construction of the highway, or were they leftovers from bridge projects, just not fully removed? Other states which have used "crossovers" to rebuild bridges have removed them completely upon completion, leaving no evidence.
Then, at the Susquehanna Bridge, there is not just a crossover but a lot of unused pavement in the form of extra wide inner shoulders westbound, as seen here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0195319,-76.3093854,3a,27.7y,147.83h,90.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRcnz_IdDKEJsE6dEvfaW7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Switching to satellite mode, you can see what was going on: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.018172,-76.3074322,390m/data=!3m1!1e3
I just find it odd that they left the crossover intact.
Maybe it's not odd, but you're on I-80 for 310 miles in PA, there isn't much to see, and I had fun shouting "criss-cross!" every time I saw one, in reference also to the Simpsons episode. Travelling east, when one sees "New York City" as a control point, and the only control point in eastern OH, it really makes sense, as there is no suitable out-of-state point other than NYC, even if it does snub PA and NJ entirely. In PA, you get second-rate control points such as Clarion and Bloomsburg, with New York City not appearing again until the I-81 interchange.
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiNrdvWz6LnAhUnlHIEHTMfCXkQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nohomers.net%2Fshowthread.php%3F115387-NHC-TOP30-HD-ERA-EPISODES-Choose-your-top20!&psig=AOvVaw0dGpRJNtCYGPAT5vrEvVb2&ust=1580174714286069)
Here's the link to some of the photos I've taken on I-80:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shadyjay/albums/72157711494425893
(https://static-media.fxx.com/img/FX_Networks_-_FXX/612/359/Treehouse_of_Horror_XX.jpg)
These are fairly common in Québec (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4276381,-71.7895724,3a,75y,27.21h,87.07t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s86mwfk16Zb1tL-3E3ayEWg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D86mwfk16Zb1tL-3E3ayEWg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D69.60562%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656).
The first one you mentioned looks like it's leftover grading from a construction project, since it's not paved.
PA retains old crossovers in several locations, but they are most prominent on I-79 (example (https://goo.gl/maps/o4wpcdGuwpkVk5s16)) and I-80. No idea why. They also exist on I-81 and I-84.
We should distinguish this from major bridges and tunnels, which have crossovers in other states. The PA Turnpike tunnels, for example, all have crossovers on both ends so they can close one tube if necessary.
Quote from: shadyjaySo is this a PA thing?
Simply put, no. Midwestern and Plains states often use crossovers, and some will be kept for multiple construction seasons if there's work on adjacent segments (or doing one side one year and another side the next).
I don't get it either. In NJ, those things are ripped up and replanted as they should be.
The one that bugs me is on I-390 in Dansville (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5662998,-77.7165749,3a,75y,131.22h,82.68t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1simcHeMjiuX2Ztg-EfYPKfw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DimcHeMjiuX2Ztg-EfYPKfw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D163.99658%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656). It's been there for 10 or 15 years, is in the forward direction of travel (i.e. you could use it to create a head-on collision), and is protected by nothing more than a line of closely-spaced delineators each way.
PA has used a set of these on I-84 for each of the past few construction seasons. They merge one side of I-84 down to one lane then crossover to smoosh it onto the other directions roadbed for several miles and then back, allowing a completely car free construction area for faster progress. It has been years but if memory serves it was done a lot in Germany etc too. If your traffic counts aren't crazy it seems like a pretty good system. As for them remaining in place after the project is done.... I don't have a strong opinion. I believe the PA ones are used when there is land between the two roadways so it isn't like there is oncoming traffic just feet away with no barrier but I guess it would be nicer looking if they removed them?
Quote from: shadyjay on January 26, 2020, 08:27:35 PM
Last week, I drove Interstate 80, end-to-end in Pennsylvania, while traveling between New England and Ohio. It's quite the interesting road to drive and a relatively quiet road, meaning it bypasses all the major cities and is a solid 2 lanes each way throughout. Once you get east of I-380, however, it sees a lot more traffic.
Anyways...
Throughout I-80 there are what I call criss-crosses. They appear to be in place before overpasses, which facilitate the closing of one side of an overpass in order to replace the other side. In some cases, these criss-crosses are still paved, in others, they are dirt or just graded. An example of one is here: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0673255,-77.0612173,288m/data=!3m1!1e3
So is this a PA thing? There wasn't a single active bridge reconstruction project along the route, but there they were. Were these put in as part of the original construction of the highway, or were they leftovers from bridge projects, just not fully removed? Other states which have used "crossovers" to rebuild bridges have removed them completely upon completion, leaving no evidence.
Then, at the Susquehanna Bridge, there is not just a crossover but a lot of unused pavement in the form of extra wide inner shoulders westbound, as seen here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0195319,-76.3093854,3a,27.7y,147.83h,90.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRcnz_IdDKEJsE6dEvfaW7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Switching to satellite mode, you can see what was going on: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.018172,-76.3074322,390m/data=!3m1!1e3
I just find it odd that they left the crossover intact.
Maybe it's not odd, but you're on I-80 for 310 miles in PA, there isn't much to see, and I had fun shouting "criss-cross!" every time I saw one, in reference also to the Simpsons episode. Travelling east, when one sees "New York City" as a control point, and the only control point in eastern OH, it really makes sense, as there is no suitable out-of-state point other than NYC, even if it does snub PA and NJ entirely. In PA, you get second-rate control points such as Clarion and Bloomsburg, with New York City not appearing again until the I-81 interchange.
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiNrdvWz6LnAhUnlHIEHTMfCXkQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nohomers.net%2Fshowthread.php%3F115387-NHC-TOP30-HD-ERA-EPISODES-Choose-your-top20!&psig=AOvVaw0dGpRJNtCYGPAT5vrEvVb2&ust=1580174714286069)
Here's the link to some of the photos I've taken on I-80:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shadyjay/albums/72157711494425893
(https://static-media.fxx.com/img/FX_Networks_-_FXX/612/359/Treehouse_of_Horror_XX.jpg)
I remember these in use.
The first times I crossed Pennsylvania on I-80 were in the mid-1980s, during which time there was a years-long full rebuilding of the road going on, all the way down to the roadbed. I think they actually poured concrete, though current aerials show an asphalt surface. It was probably the first full-scale rebuilding of the pavement and roadbed.
These crossovers were in active use at the time, and both directions of traffic would indeed use one carriageway for several miles at a time while the other was rebuilt.
It made crossing the state via I-80 a miserable experience for several years.
It's been 30+ years. I hope there's not another round coming up anytime soon.
Quote from: Alps on January 27, 2020, 01:52:47 AM
I don't get it either. In NJ, those things are ripped up and replanted as they should be.
I generally agree, but . . . at least one that I know of, I-195 east of Allentown, is still there, signed as an emergency crossover and "blocked off" by flexible bollards. Not sure where others may be and whether there are specific purposes for their remaining.
I remember some on the Mass Pike back in the 80's when they were widening it between 84 and 128. Driving to Boston, my dad would always fascinate me, much to the chagrin of my mom, and drive in the one crossover lane on the other side of the median to give us the effect we were driving on the wrong side of the highway.
Quote from: akotchi on January 27, 2020, 09:54:28 AM
Quote from: Alps on January 27, 2020, 01:52:47 AM
I don't get it either. In NJ, those things are ripped up and replanted as they should be.
I generally agree, but . . . at least one that I know of, I-195 east of Allentown, is still there, signed as an emergency crossover and "blocked off" by flexible bollards. Not sure where others may be and whether there are specific purposes for their remaining.
That's a hurricane evacuation crossover, built specifically for that reason. There's a companion crossover on NJ 138 just east of that GSP. A few years back a hurricane evacuation crossover was built on the AC Expressway near Exit 41.
More to what the OP is referring to, a temporary crossover was built and removed on 295 near MP 45.4. NJDOT removes these and puts the median back to pre-construction conditions. This GSV link may not work well, but you can very faintly see the old roadway lines on the pavement leading into the median. The median offers no signs of thr crossover though.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4AvNMENp6gdBFUdW7
Quote from: GenExpwy on January 27, 2020, 03:20:35 AM
The one that bugs me is on I-390 in Dansville (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5662998,-77.7165749,3a,75y,131.22h,82.68t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1simcHeMjiuX2Ztg-EfYPKfw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DimcHeMjiuX2Ztg-EfYPKfw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D163.99658%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656). It's been there for 10 or 15 years, is in the forward direction of travel (i.e. you could use it to create a head-on collision), and is protected by nothing more than a line of closely-spaced delineators each way.
Might be due to the recurring issues they've had on that section of road. I remember a few times in the late 2000s where one direction was closed with traffic detoured to NY 36 for unspecified "construction".
Another current construction crossover is on NJ 42 just south of NJ 55. 3 lanes (currently 42 North) shift over a lane, 1 lane from 42 South crosses over to the NB side, and the remaining 2 lanes shift as necessary so they can replace 2 closely spaced overpasses 2 lanes at a time.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JAu1E1PAAzGieWeV8
Quote from: Alps on January 27, 2020, 01:52:47 AM
I don't get it either. In NJ, those things are ripped up and replanted as they should be.
Temporary crossovers for running 2-lane 2-way traffic on one freeway roadway.
In Virginia they also are normally demolished and obscured, but there are a few still out there. On I-64 near Sandston / I-295, and there were a pair on I-95 for the original Meherrin River bridge but they are now gone.
Quote from: Beltway on January 27, 2020, 12:20:46 PM
On I-64 near Sandston / I-295
This is specifically in place in the event the eastbound lanes of I-64 are reversed to point westbound in the event of a major evacuation of the Hampton Roads area. Another pair exists on I-64 in the Ocean View area of Norfolk (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.961137,-76.2670053,182m/data=!3m1!1e3), the southern end of the reversal.
A few years ago MoDOT had a project to replace the two bridges over Radio lane on MO-13 here. (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2587164,-93.3144736,3a,75y,252.52h,82.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svSLx1wJwD7ML-Az0BWpu5Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and IMO it was a good move to just keep it for when they need to do it again. I can't recall if MoDOT did the X to divert traffic when re-constructing several I-44 bridges late last year but it did result in a obnoxious "zipper" merge pattern lasting for a few miles.
Quote from: bemybear on January 27, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
PA has used a set of these on I-84 for each of the past few construction seasons. They merge one side of I-84 down to one lane then crossover to smoosh it onto the other directions roadbed for several miles and then back, allowing a completely car free construction area for faster progress. It has been years but if memory serves it was done a lot in Germany etc too. If your traffic counts aren't crazy it seems like a pretty good system. As for them remaining in place after the project is done.... I don't have a strong opinion. I believe the PA ones are used when there is land between the two roadways so it isn't like there is oncoming traffic just feet away with no barrier but I guess it would be nicer looking if they removed them?
I've done 3 trips since October to (at least) western PA and have encountered that I-84 construction. On this last trip, it was wrapping up, as each direction was restored to its proper carriageway, but only very recently, as one lane was still partially closed. In VT and CT, the crossovers are removed, long before they even reach full "crisscross" status. I figured that was the use of them on I-80, but just find it strange that they were left in position, creating a squished "X" every so often, sometimes with an emergency vehicle only u-turn in the median, creating not just a criss-cross but an asterisk.
Think I saw one or two on I-380 as well.
Quote from: froggie on January 26, 2020, 11:12:30 PM
Quote from: shadyjaySo is this a PA thing?
Simply put, no. Midwestern and Plains states often use crossovers, and some will be kept for multiple construction seasons if there's work on adjacent segments (or doing one side one year and another side the next).
This.
In fact, it seems to me like a waste of resources to rip it up, when it might come in handy several years later.
Oklahoma example (https://goo.gl/maps/TCKgEoAtBV2yapFp8). Why rip this up?
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 27, 2020, 05:38:25 PM
Quote from: Beltway on January 27, 2020, 12:20:46 PM
On I-64 near Sandston / I-295
This is specifically in place in the event the eastbound lanes of I-64 are reversed to point westbound in the event of a major evacuation of the Hampton Roads area. Another pair exists on I-64 in the Ocean View area of Norfolk (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.961137,-76.2670053,182m/data=!3m1!1e3), the southern end of the reversal.
That is interesting, but this has been around since long before the lane reversal scheme was implemented.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5197115,-77.2664164,706m/data=!3m1!1e3
Granted, there is no obvious bridge project in that area.
Quote from: kphoger on January 27, 2020, 06:46:26 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 26, 2020, 11:12:30 PM
Quote from: shadyjaySo is this a PA thing?
Simply put, no. Midwestern and Plains states often use crossovers, and some will be kept for multiple construction seasons if there's work on adjacent segments (or doing one side one year and another side the next).
This.
In fact, it seems to me like a waste of resources to rip it up, when it might come in handy several years later.
Oklahoma example (https://goo.gl/maps/TCKgEoAtBV2yapFp8). Why rip this up?
That OK example is more of a rural/turnpike style median, vs the wide variable median that is found on I-80. So no, there is no reason to rip that up. It can serve as a wider inside shoulder as well.
Leaving the criss-crosses in place very well may be commonplace in the west, but to me, the "west" is anything west of PA. Now the farthest west I've traveled is I-76 in Akron/Canton OH.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on January 27, 2020, 05:48:19 PM
A few years ago MoDOT had a project to replace the two bridges over Radio lane on MO-13 here. (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2587164,-93.3144736,3a,75y,252.52h,82.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svSLx1wJwD7ML-Az0BWpu5Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and IMO it was a good move to just keep it for when they need to do it again.
If they need to replace it again in the next 50 years, the bigger concern would be why are they building bridges with a short life span?
The crossover will have a life expectancy of about 15 years, so they will need to rebuild that anyway.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 27, 2020, 10:07:32 PM
Quote from: ozarkman417 on January 27, 2020, 05:48:19 PM
A few years ago MoDOT had a project to replace the two bridges over Radio lane on MO-13 here. (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2587164,-93.3144736,3a,75y,252.52h,82.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svSLx1wJwD7ML-Az0BWpu5Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and IMO it was a good move to just keep it for when they need to do it again.
If they need to replace it again in the next 50 years, the bigger concern would be why are they building bridges with a short life span?
The crossover will have a life expectancy of about 15 years, so they will need to rebuild that anyway.
I forgot to mention It was a
rehabilitation project that was done one bridge at a time. I don't know how often they do those kinds of projects per bridge, but it would help if the project's website was still up.
Iowa appears to have a few, but with a tigher/lower speed design. Example on I-80 west of Quad Cities. (https://goo.gl/maps/NcofLPN3vWjgAv9C8) I seem to recall a pair of these existing crossovers being used not too long ago in western Iowa on I-80 for a bridge project.
There's a similar one on the free section of I-88 west of Sterling/Rock Falls, (https://goo.gl/maps/LWunwGa7JfUexdS19) though it would appear to need a tighter curve for the crossovers. But when compared to most other median crossovers in Illinois (example median crossover on I-39 near Bloomington (https://goo.gl/maps/RaK2gf9QTP7rpM5M6) and one on I-57 south of Marion (https://goo.gl/maps/mRPRRsJWUpkVpXuYA)), it certainly seems built more for switching traffic than just providing a place for enforcement and maintenance vehicles to turn around.
EDIT: Found an example on Streetview for one of the Iowa ones in use:
I-80 at US 71 during construction (https://goo.gl/maps/1Lme2FgZow9DxfC18)
I-80 at US 71 about 10 years after construction (https://goo.gl/maps/9NREuYwvH48zfS4m9)
Florida has one on I-4 under I-75 near Tampa paved but a movable jersey barrier. However, I-4 is set up for contraflow during hurricane evacuations, and even flip Do Not Enter signs are on all WB ramps west of Disney from all side roads. Plus the WB I-4 speed limit signs from SR 417 to I-75 has a flip panel on the back, so that confirms that the I-75 crossover is for that.
SR 528 has one at the SR 520 diamond interchange in rural east Orange County, so I assume that is for Space Coast evacuations during storms.
There are a few on I-64 near the Kentucky state line in West Virginia. Seems like some of those bridges are often being repaired, so they just leave the crossovers in place and put guardrail or cable barrier along them, then pull up the railings if necessary to divert traffic.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 27, 2020, 09:50:04 AM
I remember these in use.
The first times I crossed Pennsylvania on I-80 were in the mid-1980s, during which time there was a years-long full rebuilding of the road going on, all the way down to the roadbed. I think they actually poured concrete, though current aerials show an asphalt surface. It was probably the first full-scale rebuilding of the pavement and roadbed.
These crossovers were in active use at the time, and both directions of traffic would indeed use one carriageway for several miles at a time while the other was rebuilt.
It made crossing the state via I-80 a miserable experience for several years.
It's been 30+ years. I hope there's not another round coming up anytime soon.
That brings back the memories. For my entire childhood, whenever my family trips would take us from Southeastern PA up towards State College or anywhere along the I-80 corridor, we ran into the same construction projects. My recall is they stretched over the eastern two thirds of the interstate and the reconstruction was over the course of at least 15 years. Those access lanes were in heavy use, and possibly have been more recently for repaving projects. I remember hearing more than a few jokes about how I-80 was always going to be under reconstruction due to the lousy PENNDOT finances and the length of the highway.. At the time, it seemed like a reasonable possibility.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 27, 2020, 09:50:04 AM
Quote from: shadyjay on January 26, 2020, 08:27:35 PM
Last week, I drove Interstate 80, end-to-end in Pennsylvania, while traveling between New England and Ohio. It's quite the interesting road to drive and a relatively quiet road, meaning it bypasses all the major cities and is a solid 2 lanes each way throughout. Once you get east of I-380, however, it sees a lot more traffic.
Anyways...
Throughout I-80 there are what I call criss-crosses. They appear to be in place before overpasses, which facilitate the closing of one side of an overpass in order to replace the other side. In some cases, these criss-crosses are still paved, in others, they are dirt or just graded. An example of one is here: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0673255,-77.0612173,288m/data=!3m1!1e3
So is this a PA thing? There wasn't a single active bridge reconstruction project along the route, but there they were. Were these put in as part of the original construction of the highway, or were they leftovers from bridge projects, just not fully removed? Other states which have used "crossovers" to rebuild bridges have removed them completely upon completion, leaving no evidence.
Then, at the Susquehanna Bridge, there is not just a crossover but a lot of unused pavement in the form of extra wide inner shoulders westbound, as seen here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0195319,-76.3093854,3a,27.7y,147.83h,90.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRcnz_IdDKEJsE6dEvfaW7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Switching to satellite mode, you can see what was going on: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.018172,-76.3074322,390m/data=!3m1!1e3
I just find it odd that they left the crossover intact.
Maybe it's not odd, but you're on I-80 for 310 miles in PA, there isn't much to see, and I had fun shouting "criss-cross!" every time I saw one, in reference also to the Simpsons episode. Travelling east, when one sees "New York City" as a control point, and the only control point in eastern OH, it really makes sense, as there is no suitable out-of-state point other than NYC, even if it does snub PA and NJ entirely. In PA, you get second-rate control points such as Clarion and Bloomsburg, with New York City not appearing again until the I-81 interchange.
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiNrdvWz6LnAhUnlHIEHTMfCXkQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nohomers.net%2Fshowthread.php%3F115387-NHC-TOP30-HD-ERA-EPISODES-Choose-your-top20!&psig=AOvVaw0dGpRJNtCYGPAT5vrEvVb2&ust=1580174714286069)
Here's the link to some of the photos I've taken on I-80:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shadyjay/albums/72157711494425893
(https://static-media.fxx.com/img/FX_Networks_-_FXX/612/359/Treehouse_of_Horror_XX.jpg)
I remember these in use.
The first times I crossed Pennsylvania on I-80 were in the mid-1980s, during which time there was a years-long full rebuilding of the road going on, all the way down to the roadbed. I think they actually poured concrete, though current aerials show an asphalt surface. It was probably the first full-scale rebuilding of the pavement and roadbed.
These crossovers were in active use at the time, and both directions of traffic would indeed use one carriageway for several miles at a time while the other was rebuilt.
It made crossing the state via I-80 a miserable experience for several years.
It's been 30+ years. I hope there's not another round coming up anytime soon.
I remember this. In the late 80s I was a young kid and did several trips back and forth from NJ to my dad's in Chicago. I remember the long vast stretches of 80 where it was one lane in each direction in one roadway because they were doing that full depth reconstruction on the other side.