Been reading there's supposed to be a rolled Hempstead Expressway, but confused on if it's a new road or an expansion of US-290. Seems US-290 has already been built out....
Also, saw there was a motion to make US-290 an "˜I' any traction on that?
I believe the Hempstead Tollway would run over or on top of the railroad right-of-way along Hempstead Road. It appears that they were planned to become de-facto express lanes for 290, but instead of being in the median, located on a separate, parallel right-of-way. Maybe similar to the situation of the Hardy Toll Road and I-45, though closer together.
The plans for 290 / Hempstead Tollway were changed a number of times. The orginal plan was to widen 290 to 5 general purpose lanes and 1 reversible HOV lane, plus the Hempstead Tollway. Later plans included 4 GP lanes each way and 3 tolled reversible lanes without the Hempstead Tollway. They then basically built the original plan but without the Hempstead Tollway, which may still be an option in the future?
So
1. Hempstead tollway was supposed to be a new road // to 290?
-So when conceived, was 290 an expressway?
-Since 290 is an expressway, is the tollway dead?
Quote from: bluecountry on February 17, 2020, 04:44:57 PM
1. Hempstead tollway was supposed to be a new road // to 290?
-So when conceived, was 290 an expressway?
-Since 290 is an expressway, is the tollway dead?
The Hempstead Tollway was part of the overall recommended plan for improving the US 290 corridor. The plan was developed in the early 2000s. As Chris mentioned, it was intended to be the managed-lane component of the corridor. Inside BW8, it is proposed to be in the location of the current Hempstead Road (but of course on a wider right-of-way). Outside BW8 it would be south of the railroad.
The tollway will not be a big money-maker since it will mainly serve peak-period traffic. In fact, it may be financially marginal or may not even pay for itself (which would not necessarily kill it because one of its main purposes will be for public transit). Building it will require a major right-of-way clearance, especially inside BW8. Of course funding is always limited so it was deferred, with the 2030s the target period for construction.
Last year HGAC gave the project its second highest ranking in the annual call for new projects to be included in the regional plan for funding in 2026. See page 5
http://www.h-gac.com/transportation-policy-council/meeting-agendas/documents/2019/march/ITEM-06-Approval-of-TAC-Recommendations-for-2018-CFP-Background.pdf (http://www.h-gac.com/transportation-policy-council/meeting-agendas/documents/2019/march/ITEM-06-Approval-of-TAC-Recommendations-for-2018-CFP-Background.pdf)
However, you can see that it was not included in the selected projects, with the explanation on page 3
Quote
Hempstead Highway Frontage Roads Project: This project application was submitted by TxDOT Houston District scoring a total of 194 points and ranked 2 is a major investment project requesting $175.3 million in proposed FY 2026. Staff is not recommending funding at this time because of opposition from the City of Houston. However, staff will add this project to the 2045 RTP so that this project will have completed the conformity analysis.
I don't know why the City of Houston opposes it. It could be related to plans by Texas Central to build its high-speed rail along Hempstead Road. A couple years ago the plan for Texas Central was to build an elevated viaduct using about half of the existing Hempstead Road corrdor width, which is 100 feet wide. I don't know if anything has changed since I saw that early plan.
However, I don't think TxDOT has given up on the Hempstead toll road. In November 2019 TxDOT posted a consultant solicitation which included the following. (Note that solicitations sometimes don't move forward)
Quote
"Scenario: For each of the three criteria of this solicitation, demonstrate how your team will assist the State in developing the Hempstead Managed Lanes, IH 610 West Loop, and IH 10 from IH 610 W to IH 45 projects as either design-build or design-bid-build projects."
So to answer your question: The Hempstead Tollway is not dead, but there are no current plans to move it forward toward construction. What happens with Texas Central (if it actually is built, and in what configuration) may have an influence on the future of the toll road. The political climate in Houston is also shifting to be more Democrat, and Democrats are either less supportive of roads or outright opposed to all new roads. So my assessment is that the future of the toll road is uncertain due to politics, funding and Texas Central.
It also has a lot of local opposition due to yet another toll road in the city with too many of them. Off peak hours, I couldn't see much use of it as the non tolled highway is mere feet away and would require rebuilding I-610 west, yet again, for connection ramps. Personally would be best for old 290 to stay a street. Hempstead road doesn't travel that much north of the beltway, so the relief route wouldn't really relieve that much.
Quote from: Perfxion on February 17, 2020, 10:18:35 PM
It also has a lot of local opposition due to yet another toll road in the city with too many of them. Off peak hours, I couldn't see much use of it as the non tolled highway is mere feet away and would require rebuilding I-610 west, yet again, for connection ramps. Personally would be best for old 290 to stay a street. Hempstead road doesn't travel that much north of the beltway, so the relief route wouldn't really relieve that much.
I actually live near BW 8 and US 290 (Jersey Village), but I commute to work on BW 8 (Sam Houston Tollway). I agree there is not a compelling need for the Hempstead Toll Road right now. But I think the greatest need eventually will be outside Beltway 8, not inside Beltway 8. Similar to IH 10 West, the expansion shifted much of the congestion to be outside BW 8.
Building the Hempstead Toll Road inside BW 8 will displace a very large number of properties. My (very) rough estimate is around 200. Outside BW 8 there are much fewer properties, mostly warehouse and industrial sites, some derelict. So clearing right-of-way will be easier outside BW 8, at least to SH 6. If Texas Central is built, it will require right-of-way clearance south of the railroad tracks outside BW8 since Hempstead road stops around BW 8.
I'm nearly sure the original plan for the Hempstead Tollway takes the Hempstead Tollway all the way to the Grand Parkway (although it may not be implemented that far if actually built.)
Quote from: MaxConcrete on February 17, 2020, 10:55:06 PM
But I think the greatest need eventually will be outside Beltway 8, not inside Beltway 8. Similar to IH 10 West, the expansion shifted much of the congestion to be outside BW 8.
These are rather interesting developments. Conventional wisdom would say that if a city grows outward, trips would be longer, i.e. people working downtown moving from 15 miles to 25 miles away from work. So traffic volumes would increase along the entire corridor.
But that is not the case. If you look at traffic volume data for I-10 post-widening, you can see tremendous growth of traffic in West Houston but almost none inside I-610. Similarly, the busiest stretch of I-45 / North Freeway is north of Beltway 8, with almost no growth inside I-610. So these people who move to the outer suburbs and exurbs evidently don't keep commuting to downtown jobs, or going even past downtown to the other side of the city.
Many trips nowadays are circumferential in character, taking an inbound route, then switch to a beltway and then to a surface road or another inbound of even outbound route, not going to or past downtown at all. These travel patterns are very different from the 1960s when urban freeways were first built.
https://www.txdot.gov/apps/statewide_mapping/StatewidePlanningMap.html
This is still confusing.
So what 290 is now from 610 to wherever, was that supposed to be the Htollway?
What is the current plan?
US290 is still the Northwest freeway in Houston all the way to I-10 on the otherside of Austin. Hempstead road, old US290 alignment, is still a street for locals. And I don't see a tollway being made any time soon.
That video still on Youtube might be the only renmant of the Hempstead tollway proposal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-wmD_Sk0-E
Quote from: ChrisThese are rather interesting developments. Conventional wisdom would say that if a city grows outward, trips would be longer, i.e. people working downtown moving from 15 miles to 25 miles away from work. So traffic volumes would increase along the entire corridor.
But that is not the case. If you look at traffic volume data for I-10 post-widening, you can see tremendous growth of traffic in West Houston but almost none inside I-610. Similarly, the busiest stretch of I-45 / North Freeway is north of Beltway 8, with almost no growth inside I-610. So these people who move to the outer suburbs and exurbs evidently don't keep commuting to downtown jobs, or going even past downtown to the other side of the city.
Contrary to the fantasy of
New Urbanists who dream of everyone moving back near old city center downtown districts that hasn't been happening in
newer and
booming metros like Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston.
Decentralization has been an important trend that is NOT stopping. Even areas like Northern Virginia and the zone between DC and Baltimore are long term examples.
There's all sorts of places around the country where major corporate campuses and even tall office buildings have been built well outside the traditional downtown zone. They've been doing this to be closer to where employees are choosing to live. They've also been doing this because locating in a downtown office tower is often too expensive for the company, in addition to being too expensive for employees.
Various levels of success in reviving downtown districts of American cities has helped spark the whole
New Urbanism effort. But the efforts at densification and getting Americans to live within walking distance of work have hit a hard brick wall. Global/anonymous speculative investment in American urban real estate has created a wave of gentrification and price gouging for housing in major cities. "Rich" cities like New York and San Francisco have an exploding problem of homelessness. Metros like Houston are growing rapidly due to people fleeing the extreme costs of other cities.
I doubt the Hempstead Tollway will get built any time soon. The same thing goes double for that high speed rail line. I'm very pessimistic about those efforts. The US needs a "revolution" of sorts to bring down the ridiculous costs before any true, modern high speed rail projects materialize in America.
I think US-290 will likely get more upgrades in the years to come. I still expect the US-290 corridor to eventually be upgraded to Interstate quality completely between Houston and Austin.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 18, 2020, 11:09:26 PM
Contrary to the fantasy of New Urbanists who dream of everyone moving back near old city center downtown districts that hasn't been happening in newer and booming metros like Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston. Decentralization has been an important trend that is NOT stopping. Even areas like Northern Virginia and the zone between DC and Baltimore are long term examples.
The new urbanist types in Austin seem to be pretty pro-decentralization. One of their big complaints at the moment is that we need something like the Galleria area in Houston that creates another urban center outside of the traditional downtown/Capitol Complex/UT urban core.
Quote from: Perfxion on February 18, 2020, 12:22:58 PM
US290 is still the Northwest freeway in Houston all the way to I-10 on the otherside of Austin. Hempstead road, old US290 alignment, is still a street for locals. And I don't see a tollway being made any time soon.
I don't see any need for the Hempstead Tollway since 290 has been expanded pretty much all the way past 99, or am I missing something?
Quote from: djlynchThe new urbanist types in Austin seem to be pretty pro-decentralization. One of their big complaints at the moment is that we need something like the Galleria area in Houston that creates another urban center outside of the traditional downtown/Capitol Complex/UT urban core.
If they're saying that I'll bet it's because they realize most residents of the Austin metro area will still have to get around the area by car for the foreseeable future. Austin has only the basic beginnings of a commuter rail system. It's going to be 20 years or more before it expands enough to be a decent system.
Quote from: bluecountryI don't see any need for the Hempstead Tollway since 290 has been expanded pretty much all the way past 99, or am I missing something?
US-290 can still get jammed with traffic, even on the sections that have been expanded. Plus, that single reversible express lane is pretty dopey. They shouldn't have even bothered on that and used the space for free lanes.
IMHO, express lanes are only decent if there's at least 2 lanes going the same direction
to allow drivers to pass slow pokes. A pair of reversible express lanes isn't the best configuration, but it's better than nothing in some situations. Separate pairs of express lanes serving opposite directions is really the best approach, but requires the most ROW (for four total lanes). The Hempstead Tollway would have effectively offered that function to US-290 while allowing the main US-290 route to have all free lanes.
US-290 was expanded to 3 lanes in each direction out to Waller, a good way West of the TX-99/Grand Parkway interchange. It's a 4 lane freeway all the way to Hempstead and TX-6. That's about 1/3 of the way to Austin. Near term US-290 needs a freeway upgrade to the partial freeway loop at Brenham.
Right, I don't see how or where the Hempstead Tollway could be built between TX6 and Beltway 8.
I COULD see it built inside beltway 8.
It boggles my mind that a port city like Houston doesn't have an expressway to the state capital.
Is there any chance 290 gets and 'I' designation?
I've noticed that the Manor Expressway Toll Road in Austin is signed TX-290 Toll, while the frontage roads are US 290. Why is that? Also, if more managed toll lanes (such as the Hempstead Tollway) are constructed, might they also get the TX-290 Toll designation as well?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2020, 06:22:02 PM
I've noticed that the Manor Expressway Toll Road in Austin is signed TX-290 Toll, while the frontage roads are US 290. Why is that? Also, if more managed toll lanes (such as the Hempstead Tollway) are constructed, might they also get the TX-290 Toll designation as well?
Because the toll road is not part of the US Highway system, so when the toll was built, the US-290 designation was moved to the frontage roads.
Quote from: bluecountry on February 19, 2020, 06:20:08 PM
Right, I don't see how or where the Hempstead Tollway could be built between TX6 and Beltway 8.
I COULD see it built inside beltway 8.
It boggles my mind that a port city like Houston doesn't have an expressway to the state capital.
Is there any chance 290 gets and 'I' designation?
There is enough ROW adjacent to the railroad for a 4 lane toll-road between TX6 and BW8, WestPark tollroad is an example of a highway built along a similar ROW.
As far as 290 becoming an Interstate at some point....I'm sure it will eventually, but it will be many years from now as there are no current proposals for it.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2020, 06:22:02 PM
I've noticed that the Manor Expressway Toll Road in Austin is signed TX-290 Toll, while the frontage roads are US 290. Why is that? Also, if more managed toll lanes (such as the Hempstead Tollway) are constructed, might they also get the TX-290 Toll designation as well?
It isn't TX 290. That's out in west Texas. It's the 290 Turnpike. The number is part of the name, not a highway number. The "290" sign is just like a "DNT" sign used by NTTA. The 183A Turnpike was originally proposed as US 183A, which would have been owned by TxDOT and would be part of the state highway system. The actual 183A is just named so drivers know what it does, like 290. Both are run by the RMA. RMAs can run state highway toll roads. The only one I know of is I-169/SH 550. The road that's commonly called Loop 49 is actually Toll 49, as the state highway loop designation was cancelled when the right-of-way was turned over the the RMA for development. In other cases, when TxDOT doesn't directly control a tolled state highway, or tolled lanes on a state highway, it's still owned by the department and run under a development agreement. In all other cases I'm familiar with regarding regional or local toll roads, any state highway is designated only on the frontage roads.
Quote from: thisdj78 on February 19, 2020, 10:36:02 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on February 19, 2020, 06:20:08 PM
Right, I don't see how or where the Hempstead Tollway could be built between TX6 and Beltway 8.
I COULD see it built inside beltway 8.
It boggles my mind that a port city like Houston doesn't have an expressway to the state capital.
Is there any chance 290 gets and 'I' designation?
There is enough ROW adjacent to the railroad for a 4 lane toll-road between TX6 and BW8, WestPark tollroad is an example of a highway built along a similar ROW.
As far as 290 becoming an Interstate at some point....I'm sure it will eventually, but it will be many years from now as there are no current proposals for it.
OK, so when they talk about the Hempstead Tollway...it is of it being a // road to 290 BW TX6 and BW 8?
Nothing inside BW8?
If it's just the former I hardly see the need, and I wonder why they expanded 290 toll free instead of doing the tollway.
Quote from: thisdj78 on February 19, 2020, 10:30:35 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2020, 06:22:02 PM
I've noticed that the Manor Expressway Toll Road in Austin is signed TX-290 Toll, while the frontage roads are US 290. Why is that? Also, if more managed toll lanes (such as the Hempstead Tollway) are constructed, might they also get the TX-290 Toll designation as well?
Because the toll road is not part of the US Highway system, so when the toll was built, the US-290 designation was moved to the frontage roads.
290 has no tolls.....
The Manor Expressway in Austin (which US-290 flanks on the frontage roads) is very much indeed a toll road.
Quote from: thisdj78 on February 19, 2020, 10:30:35 PM
Because the toll road is not part of the US Highway system, so when the toll was built, the US-290 designation was moved to the frontage roads.
US 301 would like a word...
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 20, 2020, 11:52:07 AM
The Manor Expressway in Austin (which US-290 flanks on the frontage roads) is very much indeed a toll road.
290 from 610 to 6.
Quote from: US 89 on February 20, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
Quote from: thisdj78 on February 19, 2020, 10:30:35 PM
Because the toll road is not part of the US Highway system, so when the toll was built, the US-290 designation was moved to the frontage roads.
US 301 would like a word...
I was specifically referring to the 290 toll. It is not part of the US Highway system.
Quote from: bluecountry on February 20, 2020, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on February 19, 2020, 10:30:35 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2020, 06:22:02 PM
I've noticed that the Manor Expressway Toll Road in Austin is signed TX-290 Toll, while the frontage roads are US 290. Why is that? Also, if more managed toll lanes (such as the Hempstead Tollway) are constructed, might they also get the TX-290 Toll designation as well?
Because the toll road is not part of the US Highway system, so when the toll was built, the US-290 designation was moved to the frontage roads.
290 has no tolls.....
I believe that is the same as what I just said: US-290 has no tolls as it was moved to the frontage roads, as it relates to the Manor Expressway aka "290 Toll" .
OK now it makes some sense, it seems the Hempstead Tollway will be where the current 290 HOV shifts too, with the current HOV being part of general purpose lanes on 290.
My question...
1. 290 is 5 lanes from 610 to where...1960?
-Then 4 lanes to where....3 to where.....then 2
2. What was 290 5/10/20 years ago?
Quote
My question...
1. 290 is 5 lanes from 610 to where...1960?
-Then 4 lanes to where....3 to where.....then 2
2. What was 290 5/10/20 years ago?
610 to 6/1960: 5-1H-5
1960 to 99 (Grand Parkway): 4-1H-4
99 to west of FM 2920 (at Waller): 3x3
The HOV was originally slated to be on the Hempstead Toll Road, so when it was moved onto the main lanes it caused narrowing of the main lanes and also conversion of a planned freeway lane in some areas.
For 5/10/20 years ago, it varied by section, but was generally 3-1H-3 610 to 1960, 3x3 1960 to around Barker Cypress and 2x2 from around Barker Cypress westward. Some sections around 99 were not full freeway standards until after 2000 (and were very dangerous due to crossings and signals). The new alignment west of Hockley is not that old, mostly built in the 1990s.
US 290 was originally constructed to low standards, even though long-term planning maps anticipated heavy growth in the corridor. Fortunately, growth turned out to be less than expected, but still more than the underdesigned freeway could handle.
Thanks...I thought 290 was 2 lanes in each direction in Waller to 6?
Quote from: bluecountry on March 05, 2020, 10:16:10 AM
Thanks...I thought 290 was 2 lanes in each direction in Waller to 6?
No, it's been expanded to 3 lanes each way, up to 4 between grand parkway and Hwy6
Quote from: MaxConcrete610 to 6/1960: 5-1H-5
1960 to 99 (Grand Parkway): 4-1H-4
I really cannot stand single lane express/HOV lanes. They suck. IMHO those separated roadways need to be at least 2 lanes wide, either in a reversible configuration or (better) 2 specialty lanes in each direction, provided if there is enough room for them. Additionally, I think the separate "free" lanes parts of the road need to be at least 3 or 4 lanes across before anyone farts around with adding separate express/HOV roadways. A 4-4-4-4 configuration (looking at you I-820 in Fort Worth) sucks. But so does something like a 3-1H-3 configuration. If there's not enough room to build a PAIR of specialty lanes then they don't need to be building any premium priced lanes at all. Make all the lanes free instead.
The most obvious problem with single lane express/HOV lanes is the strong likelihood that once you enter one of these one-lane scams you'll end up looking at the bumper of some slow poke driving the same speed as the other people in the "free" lanes off to the right. Since there's only one lane you're stuck. It's not like you can pass the slow poke. The toll rates per mile in Dallas-Fort Worth are not overtly bad, but they're really not all that cheap either (they're definitely a substantial premium over any toll road in Oklahoma).
Here's an even bigger problem with single lane express/HOV lanes. If they're configured like they are on US-290 going NW out of Houston you might have the tendency to slow down a LOT. The freaking lane is closely bracketed by concrete Jersey barriers on both the left and right. The feeling of driving along in an "express" lane like that is
very similar to driving through a construction zone on a bridge rehab project. I might feel comfortable driving on a single lane with Jersey barriers on both sides at speeds of 35-40mph. At speeds of 60-70mph the feeling is going to get a whole lot more claustrophobic and scary. Honestly the toll authority
would have to pay me to drive in that stupid single lane. Get rid of it!!
Quote from: thisdj78 on February 19, 2020, 10:36:02 PM
There is enough ROW adjacent to the railroad for a 4 lane toll-road between TX6 and BW8, WestPark tollroad is an example of a highway built along a similar ROW.
When I last drove it regularly (before/during the I-10 expansion), the Westpark Tollway was a bit of a botch, and would always become congested when I drove it during peak periods (I was living near TX 6/Beechnut at the time). Eventually, the Westpark Tollway will likely need widening (from Beltway 8 to I-610), and the only way I see that happening is at the expense of surface road capacity on Westpark Drive and/or the remaining right-of-way originally planned to be used for light rail.
Back on topic... four lanes, two each direction, might be just enough for peak-hour relief, especially given it's closer to other routes than the Westpark Tollway is to either I-10 or I-69/US 59.
Quote from: Bobby5280A 4-4-4-4 configuration (looking at you I-820 in Fort Worth) sucks.
Just noticed this typo from months ago. That should be
2-2-2-2 configuration. That's what I-820 is in Fort Worth (as well as some parts of I-35W). A 4-4-4-4 super highway would not be all that bad, but 6-2-2-6 would be much better.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 05, 2020, 12:57:39 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280A 4-4-4-4 configuration (looking at you I-820 in Fort Worth) sucks.
Just noticed this typo from months ago. That should be 2-2-2-2 configuration. That's what I-820 is in Fort Worth (as well as some parts of I-35W). A 4-4-4-4 super highway would not be all that bad, but 6-2-2-6 would be much better.
Which is why driving I-635 and SH 183 is more pleasant than driving I-35W.
The Hempstead
Toll road Freeway is the subject of renewed attention from TxDOT.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/transportation/article/TxDOT-takes-tolls-out-of-Hempstead-Highway-plans-15568502.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/transportation/article/TxDOT-takes-tolls-out-of-Hempstead-Highway-plans-15568502.php)
Good news: if built, it will be toll-free
Possible problem: building it as an elevated freeway will increase cost
The article fails to mention that Texas Central plans to build a tall elevated structure along Hempstead Road for high speed rail. So if Texas Central is built (which is a big if), there will already be an elevated structure along the corridor.
I live near Hempstead road and drive it occasionally. A ground level toll road will require a major right-of-way clearance of businesses, nearly all of which are lower-tier. But with right-of-way clearance becoming politically difficult or impossible in Houston, an elevated structure possibly double-decked may be the only politically feasible option.
Quote
TxDOT takes tolls out of Hempstead Highway plans, but raises idea of elevated lanes
A long-planned tollway along Hempstead Road has new life, albeit without the tolls, as Texas Department of Transportation planners pitch an elevated system that could cater to carpools and transit.
Specific designs are years away, but the concept TxDOT officials are pursuing, and recently inserted in the regional 10-year transportation plan updated annually by the Houston-Galveston Area Council, involves rebuilding most of Hempstead Road from Loop 610 to Jones Road in northwest Harris County and adding a transit-only lane in each direction.
The biggest change, however, hovers above Hempstead, where officials are proposing two managed lanes in each direction along an elevated structure atop or alongside the road.
I'm confused, so is this going to be a 4 lane expressway with managed lanes and transit only lanes // to 290?