I asked about this topic on the Northeast board, with specific attention on the New York Thruway.
Now, I'm looking broader at the country (and other countries), wanting to know peoples' thoughts and feelings about service plazas on turnpikes, thruways, and toll roads.
-What kind of variances are there from state to state?
-What states are good when it comes to quality and quantity of services offered at service plazas? What states are bad?
-Over the decades, what has changed about how these plazas serve the motoring public? I'd be curious to know when they came about, what they were like in the 40's, 60's, 80's, etc.
-Do some toll roads have stops with more amenities (car wash? Showers? Mechanics? Non-fast food choices?). Is there one standout among rest stops?
-Do you have a favorite service plaza?
-Do you have any interesting anecdotes about any particular plaza?
I'm trying to get a feel for how rest stops are reinventing themselves and if that's a common trend or not and compare how NY stands up to the other states
Main variances are what is provided for truck parking. Most have fast food. McDonalds, Sbarro, BK, Hardee's, Roy Rogers out east, etc. Truck parking is either overly abundant, or none at all. IS it a median based one like oklahoma and kentucky, is it an over the road oasis...etc. is the other
Good state would be ohio, bad would be indiana. Ohio has more plazas with each one having something different. Indiana is more standardized and fewer.
Over the decades what has happened is people drive longer distances without needing as many breaks. Simple as that.
NJ turnpike has tires and oil changes at most plazas most have just...food.
Favorite would be the Ohio Turnpike one near toledo @ I280. It has a hardee's/red burrito and it isn't expensive to get 5 tacos. It also has full laundry facilities and laundry for truck drivers like all other ohio ones.
The Illinois Tollway has three over-the-road oasis in the system (Belvidere, Lake Forest, and Chicago Southland) and one on one side of the highway (DeKalb). There was also three over-the-road oasis that have either been torn down or plan on demolishing (Des Plaines- gone, O'Hare, Hinsdale). All of them have Mobile/7-Eleven and a car wash. The remaining oasis have various restaurants to choose from.
Indiana, on the other hand, is TINY and SMALLER. Two of them are convenience stores and the other two have a couple of fast-food restaurants in them.
Personally, the Ohio Turnpike service plazas are the nicest plazas that I've seen in my travels.
One of the variances from state to state I've noted in the past (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7359.0) is service area positioning–on the right side versus in the median–and whether U-turns can be executed via a service area. The New Jersey Turnpike's service areas are all on the "outside" (the right side of the road) except for the Vince Lombardi. Florida's Turnpike, by contrast, has them all in the median. The median design is theoretically less expensive because you only need one set of facilities, though you might need to make it bigger to serve the added traffic. Service areas on the New Jersey Turnpike, the New York Thruway, and the Pennsylvania Turnpike are also set up so that even when the two directions of travel share one service area (again, excepting the Vince Lombardi, where I believe this doesn't apply), there is some sort of divider down the parking lot so you can't effectively make a U-turn by going through the service area. Florida doesn't prohibit that.
When I was a little kid, the Maryland House had a classy white-tablecloth sit-down restaurant. That's long gone; it disappeared in the early 1980s, if I recall correctly, in favor of fast food. I have not been there since its most recent renovation and in general I tend to avoid stopping there just because it's often crowded. If I'm driving north and I need a toilet break, I try to hold it until the Chesapeake service area (the next one to the north), but in general I seldom drive north via I-95 anymore just because I've been that way too many times, and when I travel for work I'm usually on Amtrak.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2020, 08:16:26 AM
One of the variances from state to state I've noted in the past (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7359.0) is service area positioning–on the right side versus in the median–and whether U-turns can be executed via a service area. The New Jersey Turnpike's service areas are all on the "outside" (the right side of the road) except for the Vince Lombardi. Florida's Turnpike, by contrast, has them all in the median. The median design is theoretically less expensive because you only need one set of facilities, though you might need to make it bigger to serve the added traffic. Service areas on the New Jersey Turnpike, the New York Thruway, and the Pennsylvania Turnpike are also set up so that even when the two directions of travel share one service area (again, excepting the Vince Lombardi, where I believe this doesn't apply), there is some sort of divider down the parking lot so you can't effectively make a U-turn by going through the service area. Florida doesn't prohibit that.
When I was a little kid, the Maryland House had a classy white-tablecloth sit-down restaurant. That's long gone; it disappeared in the early 1980s, if I recall correctly, in favor of fast food. I have not been there since its most recent renovation and in general I tend to avoid stopping there just because it's often crowded. If I'm driving north and I need a toilet break, I try to hold it until the Chesapeake service area (the next one to the north), but in general I seldom drive north via I-95 anymore just because I've been that way too many times, and when I travel for work I'm usually on Amtrak.
The Vince Lombardi is an oddball when it comes to Rest Areas/Service Plazas, both on a state and national level, because it serves not only as a normal service plaza, but as a Park and Ride and a Trucker's holding area. Even with all of that, along with it being in the center of the highway, it still manages to utilize right-sided offramps (which are expensive and take up additional real estate, even though the surrounding area really isn't buildable/usable). However, since it's outside the tolled system of the Turnpike, u-turns are permitted.
As you referenced with not making u-turns, this is mostly going to be found at Service Plazas within a ticketed system, so you can't go a certain distance, make a U-turn, then come back to where you entered the toll road. If you managed to exit where you entered, you will be charged a maximum toll.
Using NJ as an example, the AC Expressway and GSP have service areas that are "inside" as they're not ticketed systems. They could easily seal off the parking lot to prevent motorists making u-turns (and potentially avoiding a toll). On the AC Expressway, there's very little reason a traveler would want to travel just to the travel plazas unless they want overpriced food and gas. One could avoid a toll, but it's about a 20 mile round trip just to avoid paying 75 cents. On the GS Parkway, many of the parking lots serve as park-and-rides, and due to the single direction entrance/exits along the parkway, many of them service travelers that need to access those single-direction ramps. And from the Parkway's view, while they usually won't officially endorse some of those u-turns, allowing them reduces the need to spend tens of millions to build the missing ramps.
Many Turnpike Service Plazas had full-service, sit down restaurants back in the 1960's and 1970's, because it was basically a luxury to drive a well-maintained toll road, and the service level was likened to first-class service on an airline. When travel as a whole became more common and easier with the interstate system being nearly completed, travelers wanted food options that didn't require an hour's worth of their time. So out went the white tablecloths and sit down meals, and in came the prepared/fast food options.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 21, 2020, 09:36:08 AM
....
As you referenced with not making u-turns, this is mostly going to be found at Service Plazas within a ticketed system, so you can't go a certain distance, make a U-turn, then come back to where you entered the toll road. If you managed to exit where you entered, you will be charged a maximum toll.
....
I suppose part of what I've never really understood is why some of the toll agencies seem to be so afraid of this. If someone wants to (or needs to, say if the driver realizes he left his wallet behind) pay the maximum possible toll, then that's more money for the toll agency, right? Why is that such a problem? (I suppose there is the issue of what, in the prior thread I linked, vdeane called "idiot protection"–setting it up to guard against the possibility of people
accidentially getting back on going the wrong way and either wasting a lot of time or getting charged the higher toll.)
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on February 21, 2020, 02:51:54 AM
Indiana, on the other hand, is TINY and SMALLER. Two of them are convenience stores and the other two have a couple of fast-food restaurants in them.
Personally, the Ohio Turnpike service plazas are the nicest plazas that I've seen in my travels.
Agree with both of these points.
I am not a fan of the new Indiana ones that are just a slightly larger than normal convenience store, with everyone having to snake through the aisles to get to the restrooms.
I guess I don't get the love for Illinois Tollway service areas.
Maybe that's because the only one I can remember stopping at was one of the smallest, dingiest, and even unsafe-feeling rest stops I've been to - in any state. After some searching, I think it was this joint (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0155786,-87.9258808,3a,41.6y,104.79h,86.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLpY_93iVK99jpurbUEsGpw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1). Certainly not your typical Thruway rest stop & I believe the bathrooms may have even been one-holers!
Quote from: webny99 on February 21, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
I guess I don't get the love for Illinois Tollway service areas.
Maybe that's because the only one I can remember stopping at was one of the smallest, dingiest, and even unsafe-feeling rest stops I've been to - in any state. After some searching, I think it was this joint (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0155786,-87.9258808,3a,41.6y,104.79h,86.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLpY_93iVK99jpurbUEsGpw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1). Certainly not your typical Thruway rest stop & I believe the bathrooms may have even been one-holers!
If you went to just the convenience store at the filling station, then, yes, those washrooms aren't great. The over-the-road pavilions are much, much better.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2020, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 21, 2020, 09:36:08 AM
....
As you referenced with not making u-turns, this is mostly going to be found at Service Plazas within a ticketed system, so you can't go a certain distance, make a U-turn, then come back to where you entered the toll road. If you managed to exit where you entered, you will be charged a maximum toll.
....
I suppose part of what I've never really understood is why some of the toll agencies seem to be so afraid of this. If someone wants to (or needs to, say if the driver realizes he left his wallet behind) pay the maximum possible toll, then that's more money for the toll agency, right? Why is that such a problem? (I suppose there is the issue of what, in the prior thread I linked, vdeane called "idiot protection"–setting it up to guard against the possibility of people accidentially getting back on going the wrong way and either wasting a lot of time or getting charged the higher toll.)
For the most part, there was no real legit reason would there be to access a service plaza on a Turnpike, only to return back to where you entered. Especially in the early days of the Turnpike, it wasn't going to be seen as much of a highway for commuting, and especially not for carpooling. As I mentioned, there isn't much incentive for motorists to want to go to a service plaza for eating, shopping, bathroom, gas or car repair.
In more recent times, if you needed to access a NJ Turnpike Service Plaza for, say, to pick up an EZ Pass, they gave you directions how to get to the employee lot and enter thru the back door of the Plaza!
The most likely reason someone would present a ticket from where they entered is that they managed to hold onto a ticket from when they used the Turnpike at one point. Once that's done, you can enter the Turnpike, pick up another toll ticket, then exit the turnpike using whatever ticket gives you a cheaper fare. Yes, there's time stamps and encoding, but that would entail all the machines working properly, which from experience doesn't happen. And from a toll collector's view, we're not going to sit there and argue with the motorist over something that, for all intents and purposes, accuses them of stealing without any proof. So the easiest way to avoid instances that may involve u-turns: Simply don't allow it.
^^^^
I wasn't so much thinking of the idea of going to a service area as a destination. I guess I'm thinking more in terms of a situation where someone either forgets something important (necessitating a U-turn) or just plain changes his mind on where he's going. (I suppose nowadays there's the situation where you get a message saying to turn around for whatever reason, like an emergency at home, but obviously that wasn't a scenario back when the turnpikes, and their original service areas, were built.) Yeah, you can get off at the next exit and turn around, although at least on the Pennsylvania Turnpike that can entail going a long way before you hit an exit.
I'll speak for Mexico.
On older toll roads, there are usually services at the toll booths: bathrooms, often a convenience store, possibly a (sketchy) restaurant or two, but probably not gasoline. Away from toll booths, services (gas station plus food and bathrooms) are located along the side of the highway; this generally means you can only access them from one side of the highway but, for example, this service area between Laredo and Monterrey (https://goo.gl/maps/qeRieibmCpDYXMpc7) can be accessed by way of median U-turns about a half-mile on each side of it (one of which is immediately before reaching a toll booth).
On newer or shorter toll roads, don't be surprised if services haven't popped up yet at all–or at least are few and far between.
Do any states other than Ohio explicitly allow public access to the facilities from surface roads? You can't get to the gas stations (though I guess you could walk back and forth with a can if you really needed to) but the employee parking lots have signs (https://goo.gl/maps/ojq8bDKfwNUu5RNm7) saying that customers can use them as well. I'm sure they don't get a lot of business that way, but some of them are out in the sticks where there aren't many other businesses, so it might be of use to the locals occasionally.
Quote from: ibagli on February 22, 2020, 04:47:27 AM
Do any states other than Ohio explicitly allow public access to the facilities from surface roads? You can't get to the gas stations (though I guess you could walk back and forth with a can if you really needed to) but the employee parking lots have signs (https://goo.gl/maps/ojq8bDKfwNUu5RNm7) saying that customers can use them as well. I'm sure they don't get a lot of business that way, but some of them are out in the sticks where there aren't many other businesses, so it might be of use to the locals occasionally.
The Illinois ones allow for that access.
Quote from: ibagli on February 22, 2020, 04:47:27 AM
Do any states other than Ohio explicitly allow public access to the facilities from surface roads? You can't get to the gas stations (though I guess you could walk back and forth with a can if you really needed to) but the employee parking lots have signs (https://goo.gl/maps/ojq8bDKfwNUu5RNm7) saying that customers can use them as well. I'm sure they don't get a lot of business that way, but some of them are out in the sticks where there aren't many other businesses, so it might be of use to the locals occasionally.
I need to check PA's rules about this, because I know how to get to the Highspire plaza's parking area, and it's the only Steak and Shake east of US 119 in PA that I know of.
But I have never tried to go there when not using the turnpike, and it'd be nice not to have to go the whole way out to exit 266 and back.
Also, I am a big fan of Ohio's plazas.
Quote from: ibagli on February 22, 2020, 04:47:27 AM
Do any states other than Ohio explicitly allow public access to the facilities from surface roads? You can't get to the gas stations (though I guess you could walk back and forth with a can if you really needed to) but the employee parking lots have signs (https://goo.gl/maps/ojq8bDKfwNUu5RNm7) saying that customers can use them as well. I'm sure they don't get a lot of business that way, but some of them are out in the sticks where there aren't many other businesses, so it might be of use to the locals occasionally.
I've done that several times, at the Erie Islands/Commodore Perry plazas near Clyde, though it's been a while. When those new plazas first opened they had Max and Erma's, and my parents liked to go there to eat.
Quote from: sbeaver44 on February 22, 2020, 09:01:27 AM
I need to check PA's rules about this, because I know how to get to the Highspire plaza's parking area, and it's the only Steak and Shake east of US 119 in PA that I know of.
But I have never tried to go there when not using the turnpike, and it'd be nice not to have to go the whole way out to exit 266 and back.
There is a Steak and Shake at the South Midway plaza as well. Stopped there many times on the way home from western PA. There's also one off I-78 at Fogelsville, one off I-80 near Bloomsburg, and one in the Philly area. Still would be more helpful for you to be able to access Highspire without getting on the Turnpike proper.
Speaking of the South Midway plaza, it is my personal favorite of the PA Turnpike's plazas, because of the display of PA Turnpike history inside.
Quote from: Crown Victoria on February 22, 2020, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: sbeaver44 on February 22, 2020, 09:01:27 AM
I need to check PA's rules about this, because I know how to get to the Highspire plaza's parking area, and it's the only Steak and Shake east of US 119 in PA that I know of.
But I have never tried to go there when not using the turnpike, and it'd be nice not to have to go the whole way out to exit 266 and back.
There is a Steak and Shake at the South Midway plaza as well. Stopped there many times on the way home from western PA. There's also one off I-78 at Fogelsville, one off I-80 near Bloomsburg, and one in the Philly area. Still would be more helpful for you to be able to access Highspire without getting on the Turnpike proper.
Speaking of the South Midway plaza, it is my personal favorite of the PA Turnpike's plazas, because of the display of PA Turnpike history inside.
Oh good to know.
Yeah, South Midway is quite awesome. I like the new service plazas in general but some of the old charm is cool too.
Quote from: ibagli on February 22, 2020, 04:47:27 AM
Do any states other than Ohio explicitly allow public access to the facilities from surface roads?
You can get to Tamarack and the service place there from an access road off WV 3, without having to use the WV Turnpike.
Quote from: Brandon on February 22, 2020, 08:40:59 AM
Quote from: ibagli on February 22, 2020, 04:47:27 AM
Do any states other than Ohio explicitly allow public access to the facilities from surface roads? You can't get to the gas stations (though I guess you could walk back and forth with a can if you really needed to) but the employee parking lots have signs (https://goo.gl/maps/ojq8bDKfwNUu5RNm7) saying that customers can use them as well. I'm sure they don't get a lot of business that way, but some of them are out in the sticks where there aren't many other businesses, so it might be of use to the locals occasionally.
The Illinois ones allow for that access.
The surface road access to Illinois Tollway oases are gated off and presumably for employee use only.
https://goo.gl/maps/yVzAHXmAyEJ3ahZ89
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 23, 2020, 11:53:01 AM
Quote from: Brandon on February 22, 2020, 08:40:59 AM
Quote from: ibagli on February 22, 2020, 04:47:27 AM
Do any states other than Ohio explicitly allow public access to the facilities from surface roads? You can't get to the gas stations (though I guess you could walk back and forth with a can if you really needed to) but the employee parking lots have signs (https://goo.gl/maps/ojq8bDKfwNUu5RNm7) saying that customers can use them as well. I'm sure they don't get a lot of business that way, but some of them are out in the sticks where there aren't many other businesses, so it might be of use to the locals occasionally.
The Illinois ones allow for that access.
The surface road access to Illinois Tollway oases are gated off and presumably for employee use only.
https://goo.gl/maps/yVzAHXmAyEJ3ahZ89
I do like when the "gate" is open near the gas station at the DeKalb Oasis on I-88 (the side of road plaza, not over) where traffic can "turn around" or basically get back on I-88 from the direction they entered the plaza
I don't know why that gate isn't always open. I-88 isn't a Ticket system - who cares if you Enter and Exit the Oasis from/to the East or from/to the West?
Quote from: ibagli on February 22, 2020, 04:47:27 AM
Do any states other than Ohio explicitly allow public access to the facilities from surface roads? You can't get to the gas stations (though I guess you could walk back and forth with a can if you really needed to) but the employee parking lots have signs (https://goo.gl/maps/ojq8bDKfwNUu5RNm7) saying that customers can use them as well. I'm sure they don't get a lot of business that way, but some of them are out in the sticks where there aren't many other businesses, so it might be of use to the locals occasionally.
MA allows public access to at least some plazas from off the Turnpike, somewhat prominently signing it: https://goo.gl/maps/9Hc5Mw5v6PTDfZwG6 / https://goo.gl/maps/jRbcKL7CPciY611L6
New Hampshire does as well: https://goo.gl/maps/uJXTAdBbQtcr87E69 (which is important primarily because the service plazas include state liquor stores)
Quote from: ibagli on February 22, 2020, 04:47:27 AM
Do any states other than Ohio explicitly allow public access to the facilities from surface roads? You can't get to the gas stations (though I guess you could walk back and forth with a can if you really needed to) but the employee parking lots have signs (https://goo.gl/maps/ojq8bDKfwNUu5RNm7) saying that customers can use them as well. I'm sure they don't get a lot of business that way, but some of them are out in the sticks where there aren't many other businesses, so it might be of use to the locals occasionally.
Each plaza in Indiana has signs on the surface road access stating "Restaurant customers only." I don't know if that means employees are required to use the toll road to get to work or if it's just implied in the sign that employees can use surface road access.
Quote from: ibagli on February 22, 2020, 04:47:27 AM
Do any states other than Ohio explicitly allow public access to the facilities from surface roads? You can't get to the gas stations (though I guess you could walk back and forth with a can if you really needed to) but the employee parking lots have signs (https://goo.gl/maps/ojq8bDKfwNUu5RNm7) saying that customers can use them as well. I'm sure they don't get a lot of business that way, but some of them are out in the sticks where there aren't many other businesses, so it might be of use to the locals occasionally.
The West Gardiner service plaza in Maine (https://goo.gl/maps/Pmb9uE8MLv5A1N1t5) is an unusual beast in that it's located off a local road and accessed via a roundabout, such that anyone on the local road can access it. Because access requires exiting the Maine Turnpike, there is a system whereby exiting traffic gets credited the difference in the toll rate. E-ZPass users get credited automatically; cash users must request a receipt at the toll plaza prior to exiting the highway (https://goo.gl/maps/ptBYQCxjG1gQ6k8UA).
Regarding Pennsylvania, I've always assumed that accessing a service plaza via the service/employee entrance wasn't illegal per se, even if the practice wasn't officially condoned by the PTC. At the very least, even if doing so was technically prohibited, I doubt you'd be cited by the state police unless you made a major nuisance of yourself (like harassing plaza employees, blocking driveways/gates, or attempting to illegally enter the Turnpike). I've accessed various service plazas via the service entrance over the years, and I've never been stopped or questioned, even when state troopers were nearby.
My impression of the PTC's permissive attitude was formed in significant part by the signage posted at the service entrance of the Allentown plaza when I lived in the Lehigh Valley around 2003-2004. At that time, the service driveway entrance at Cetronia Road was posted with a billboard-sized sign bearing the logos of the restaurants at the plaza (which at the time included Bob's Big Boy, Roy Rogers, and a few others) and an arrow pointing down the driveway. So I assumed the plaza operator was trying to attract some local business. And as I recall, I didn't encounter any "Employees Only" or similar prohibitive signage. In fact, I seem to remember that the employee parking area was posted with something like "Limit 1 Hour Except Employees" –essentially admitting that non-employees (i.e. plaza visitors) were allowed to park there.
When the plaza was completely rebuilt a few years later, the sign was replaced to reflect the logos of the updated plaza restaurant lineup. (Hopefully this 2008 Street View link works: https://goo.gl/maps/QuUhzs469GhGpEK89) By 2011, that sign had a "Delivery/Employee Entrance" panel appended beneath–perhaps suggesting that this plaza driveway was somewhat less than completely open to the public. (https://goo.gl/maps/Pyf544f6NvDMsRVY7) Then last year, the main sign with restaurant logos was removed, leaving only the "Delivery/Employee Entrance" panel. And the PTC had also installed a freestanding "Private Roadway" regulatory sign which is their standard practice at maintenance access points and the like. (https://goo.gl/maps/vUjjiri9JqKiZnSG8)
I'm curious as to what prompted this change. Clearly, incremental actions have been taken in the past nine years, but I have a tough time imagining what could have happened to prompt the gradually stricter stance. Still, I'd have no qualms about visiting a service plaza (as a pedestrian) via the service entrance.
did the old skyway mcdonalds let you do an u-turn for free?
Quote from: briantroutman on February 24, 2020, 07:12:39 PM
Regarding Pennsylvania, I've always assumed that accessing a service plaza via the service/employee entrance wasn't illegal per se, even if the practice wasn't officially condoned by the PTC. At the very least, even if doing so was technically prohibited, I doubt you'd be cited by the state police unless you made a major nuisance of yourself (like harassing plaza employees, blocking driveways/gates, or attempting to illegally enter the Turnpike). I've accessed various service plazas via the service entrance over the years, and I've never been stopped or questioned, even when state troopers were nearby.
My impression of the PTC's permissive attitude was formed in significant part by the signage posted at the service entrance of the Allentown plaza when I lived in the Lehigh Valley around 2003-2004. At that time, the service driveway entrance at Cetronia Road was posted with a billboard-sized sign bearing the logos of the restaurants at the plaza (which at the time included Bob's Big Boy, Roy Rogers, and a few others) and an arrow pointing down the driveway. So I assumed the plaza operator was trying to attract some local business. And as I recall, I didn't encounter any "Employees Only" or similar prohibitive signage. In fact, I seem to remember that the employee parking area was posted with something like "Limit 1 Hour Except Employees" –essentially admitting that non-employees (i.e. plaza visitors) were allowed to park there.
When the plaza was completely rebuilt a few years later, the sign was replaced to reflect the logos of the updated plaza restaurant lineup. (Hopefully this 2008 Street View link works: https://goo.gl/maps/QuUhzs469GhGpEK89) By 2011, that sign had a "Delivery/Employee Entrance" panel appended beneath–perhaps suggesting that this plaza driveway was somewhat less than completely open to the public. (https://goo.gl/maps/Pyf544f6NvDMsRVY7) Then last year, the main sign with restaurant logos was removed, leaving only the "Delivery/Employee Entrance" panel. And the PTC had also installed a freestanding "Private Roadway" regulatory sign which is their standard practice at maintenance access points and the like. (https://goo.gl/maps/vUjjiri9JqKiZnSG8)
I'm curious as to what prompted this change. Clearly, incremental actions have been taken in the past nine years, but I have a tough time imagining what could have happened to prompt the gradually stricter stance. Still, I'd have no qualms about visiting a service plaza (as a pedestrian) via the service entrance.
Wescosville Substation access is also part of that road
The MDTA's renovations of Maryland House and Chesapeake House have certainly improved the layout and flexibility of each site, but the charm of the original buildings made them somewhat noteworthy to visit prior to the renovations. I wonder how much revenue they return to the MDTA, especially for gas and diesel purchases, and if they attract any significant amount of true long-distance traffic versus opportunistic locals commuting to/from Baltimore.
Quote from: TheOneKEA on February 24, 2020, 10:50:42 PM
The MDTA's renovations of Maryland House and Chesapeake House have certainly improved the layout and flexibility of each site, but the charm of the original buildings made them somewhat noteworthy to visit prior to the renovations. I wonder how much revenue they return to the MDTA, especially for gas and diesel purchases, and if they attract any significant amount of true long-distance traffic versus opportunistic locals commuting to/from Baltimore.
We stopped at the Chesapeake House service plaza in Cecil County yesterday and I glanced at some of the registration plates there - plenty of non-Maryland east coast tags, including New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, Virginia, D.C. and North Carolina.
WV Turnpike. Three service areas, the north most and south most reachable only northbound (there is a smaller, improvised one for southbound parallel to the north most one. The central one (Tamarack) is reachable from either direction.
This is because the road used to be two lane and it just worked out that way, more than anything. While the areas were completely gutted and rebuilt, they never did a ramp to allow access for the other side. Back in the day when it was two lane, and the road was on the "closed" ticket system, the restaurants were the "Glass House" which was table service, and you could, at least at Beckley, go there and then return to the exit with a receipt and pay no toll.
The three rest areas are pretty similar. Exxon, with a "food court" consisting of the typical fast food. The central one, at Beckley, adds a truck stop with a large truck parking lot, showers, and like that (BTW, big prostitution sting there a couple of years ago). And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance. Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack. Bleeds $$.
There has been talk of shuttering the south most one. Since the turnpike does not charge a "side toll" (you can use any of the exits, save one, without charge, just like a normal interstate), and the road is only 88 miles long, there is little need for service areas in the first place, and the south most one is just a few miles north of Princeton, which has plenty of services, and less than 40 from Wytheville, VA, which has far more (and lower Virginia fuel taxes to boot) it really does not make enough to even pay the staff.
Quote from: briantroutman on February 24, 2020, 07:12:39 PMAnd the PTC had also installed a freestanding "Private Roadway" regulatory sign which is their standard practice at maintenance access points and the like. (https://goo.gl/maps/vUjjiri9JqKiZnSG8)
Similar was done with respect to the eastbound Valley Forge Service Plaza access road to/from PA 252 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.081728,-75.4446604,3a,75y,74.41h,77.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU3IocP_m0259z5RnhjusGg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).
Quote from: briantroutman on February 24, 2020, 07:12:39 PMI''m curious as to what prompted this change. Clearly, incremental actions have been taken in the past nine years, but I have a tough time imagining what could have happened to prompt the gradually stricter stance. Still, I'd have no qualms about visiting a service plaza (as a pedestrian) via the service entrance.
Speculation on my part but it's possible that such may have been used for one or a combination of the following:
1. A potential escape/shunpike route; especially given the annual Act 44-related toll increases.
2. Such was becoming a potential
hang-out for either gang-related and/or illegal/illicit activity.
3. Similar to 1 & 2 as it relates to if a robbery took place at one of those service plaza stores; those driveways would serve as a perfect escape route.
Quote from: briantroutman on February 24, 2020, 07:12:39 PM
Regarding Pennsylvania, I've always assumed that accessing a service plaza via the service/employee entrance wasn't illegal per se, even if the practice wasn't officially condoned by the PTC. At the very least, even if doing so was technically prohibited, I doubt you'd be cited by the state police unless you made a major nuisance of yourself (like harassing plaza employees, blocking driveways/gates, or attempting to illegally enter the Turnpike). I've accessed various service plazas via the service entrance over the years, and I've never been stopped or questioned, even when state troopers were nearby.
My impression of the PTC's permissive attitude was formed in significant part by the signage posted at the service entrance of the Allentown plaza when I lived in the Lehigh Valley around 2003-2004. At that time, the service driveway entrance at Cetronia Road was posted with a billboard-sized sign bearing the logos of the restaurants at the plaza (which at the time included Bob's Big Boy, Roy Rogers, and a few others) and an arrow pointing down the driveway. So I assumed the plaza operator was trying to attract some local business. And as I recall, I didn't encounter any "Employees Only" or similar prohibitive signage. In fact, I seem to remember that the employee parking area was posted with something like "Limit 1 Hour Except Employees" –essentially admitting that non-employees (i.e. plaza visitors) were allowed to park there.
When the plaza was completely rebuilt a few years later, the sign was replaced to reflect the logos of the updated plaza restaurant lineup. (Hopefully this 2008 Street View link works: https://goo.gl/maps/QuUhzs469GhGpEK89) By 2011, that sign had a "Delivery/Employee Entrance" panel appended beneath–perhaps suggesting that this plaza driveway was somewhat less than completely open to the public. (https://goo.gl/maps/Pyf544f6NvDMsRVY7) Then last year, the main sign with restaurant logos was removed, leaving only the "Delivery/Employee Entrance" panel. And the PTC had also installed a freestanding "Private Roadway" regulatory sign which is their standard practice at maintenance access points and the like. (https://goo.gl/maps/vUjjiri9JqKiZnSG8)
I'm curious as to what prompted this change. Clearly, incremental actions have been taken in the past nine years, but I have a tough time imagining what could have happened to prompt the gradually stricter stance. Still, I'd have no qualms about visiting a service plaza (as a pedestrian) via the service entrance.
How would the State Police be able to tell who you are, compared to any other employee in the travel plaza?
The difference between then and now: Maybe there wasn't anything that happened in PA per se, but elsewhere around the country. And even if it happened in PA, often times unless its major, it's not going to make the news. While signs aren't going to stop someone from doing what you're doing, but it gives the State Police a lot more authority to stop and detain someone like you to determine why you are visiting service areas. From an employee/State Police point of view, it probably is quite abnormal. If the PA Turnpike's Board Minutes are available online, they will be worth reading to possibly get an understanding of their more restrictive approach.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 25, 2020, 10:34:36 AM
And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance. Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack. Bleeds $$.
Where does the name "Tamarack" come from anyway?
Quote from: Buck87 on February 25, 2020, 11:10:10 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 25, 2020, 10:34:36 AM
And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance. Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack. Bleeds $$.
Where does the name "Tamarack" come from anyway?
It's a tree that grows in the local area.
Just a theory...
Anyone think the Indiana Toll Road service plazas might be better quality if it was still under state control rather than publicly-owned?
Quote from: TheOneKEA on February 24, 2020, 10:50:42 PM
The MDTA's renovations of Maryland House and Chesapeake House have certainly improved the layout and flexibility of each site, but the charm of the original buildings made them somewhat noteworthy to visit prior to the renovations. I wonder how much revenue they return to the MDTA, especially for gas and diesel purchases, and if they attract any significant amount of true long-distance traffic versus opportunistic locals commuting to/from Baltimore.
I've stopped at both in spite of the renovations. But I agree that the charm of the original service areas has been lost. The newer version of the Maryland House makes a bad attempt to pretend to have those same features of the old one. Nevertheless drivers from all over the country
do stop there for the same reasons that they did before, with the exception of car repairs. I just wish there was some old pictures of Delaware House around.
Actually, a Tamarack is a larch tree, native to most of Canada and the extreme northern edge of the USA. It is not native to WV at all, with the exception of the Cranesville Swamp, which is on the WV-MD border, hundreds of miles from Beckley. The swamp, is described as a "boreal bog" and a "frost pocket" which due to being in a deep valley at a high elevation it has a micro-climate that is like places about 800 miles further north, and is populated with species generally found in Canada.
The use of "Tamarack" for the place was done by the same out-of-state consultants who thought up the whole bad idea. It kind of underlines the faux nature of everything about the place.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 25, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
Actually, a Tamarack is a larch tree, native to most of Canada and the extreme northern edge of the USA. It is not native to WV at all, with the exception of the Cranesville Swamp, which is on the WV-MD border, hundreds of miles from Beckley. The swamp, is described as a “boreal bog” and a “frost pocket” which due to being in a deep valley at a high elevation it has a micro-climate that is like places about 800 miles further north, and is populated with species generally found in Canada.
The use of “Tamarack” for the place was done by the same out-of-state consultants who thought up the whole bad idea. It kind of underlines the faux nature of everything about the place.
Number One: The Larch. The Larch.
And now, Number One: The Larch. The Larch.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 25, 2020, 10:34:36 AM
WV Turnpike. Three service areas, the north most and south most reachable only northbound (there is a smaller, improvised one for southbound parallel to the north most one. The central one (Tamarack) is reachable from either direction.
This is because the road used to be two lane and it just worked out that way, more than anything. While the areas were completely gutted and rebuilt, they never did a ramp to allow access for the other side. Back in the day when it was two lane, and the road was on the "closed" ticket system, the restaurants were the "Glass House" which was table service, and you could, at least at Beckley, go there and then return to the exit with a receipt and pay no toll.
The three rest areas are pretty similar. Exxon, with a "food court" consisting of the typical fast food. The central one, at Beckley, adds a truck stop with a large truck parking lot, showers, and like that (BTW, big prostitution sting there a couple of years ago). And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance. Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack. Bleeds $$.
There has been talk of shuttering the south most one. Since the turnpike does not charge a "side toll" (you can use any of the exits, save one, without charge, just like a normal interstate), and the road is only 88 miles long, there is little need for service areas in the first place, and the south most one is just a few miles north of Princeton, which has plenty of services, and less than 40 from Wytheville, VA, which has far more (and lower Virginia fuel taxes to boot) it really does not make enough to even pay the staff.
If I'm not mistaken, it's possible to access the northernmost travel plaza from the little county road that runs parallel to the turnpike in that area. Not sure about the southernmost one.
I can't think there's really that much need for the northernmost plaza, although the parking lot seems full every time I have passed by there. You're not that far from either Beckley or the Kanawha City/Chesapeake area with all the restaurants and gas stations there. A standard rest area would probably be sufficient.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 25, 2020, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 25, 2020, 10:34:36 AM
WV Turnpike. Three service areas, the north most and south most reachable only northbound (there is a smaller, improvised one for southbound parallel to the north most one. The central one (Tamarack) is reachable from either direction.
This is because the road used to be two lane and it just worked out that way, more than anything. While the areas were completely gutted and rebuilt, they never did a ramp to allow access for the other side. Back in the day when it was two lane, and the road was on the "closed" ticket system, the restaurants were the "Glass House" which was table service, and you could, at least at Beckley, go there and then return to the exit with a receipt and pay no toll.
The three rest areas are pretty similar. Exxon, with a "food court" consisting of the typical fast food. The central one, at Beckley, adds a truck stop with a large truck parking lot, showers, and like that (BTW, big prostitution sting there a couple of years ago). And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance. Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack. Bleeds $$.
There has been talk of shuttering the south most one. Since the turnpike does not charge a "side toll" (you can use any of the exits, save one, without charge, just like a normal interstate), and the road is only 88 miles long, there is little need for service areas in the first place, and the south most one is just a few miles north of Princeton, which has plenty of services, and less than 40 from Wytheville, VA, which has far more (and lower Virginia fuel taxes to boot) it really does not make enough to even pay the staff.
If I'm not mistaken, it's possible to access the northernmost travel plaza from the little county road that runs parallel to the turnpike in that area. Not sure about the southernmost one.
I can't think there's really that much need for the northernmost plaza, although the parking lot seems full every time I have passed by there. You're not that far from either Beckley or the Kanawha City/Chesapeake area with all the restaurants and gas stations there. A standard rest area would probably be sufficient.
Because motorists like convenience. If the parking lot was mostly empty, a rest area would be fine. But if it's full, it's probably making money. And why take away something that motorists find useful?
Quote from: TheOneKEA on February 24, 2020, 10:50:42 PM
The MDTA's renovations of Maryland House and Chesapeake House have certainly improved the layout and flexibility of each site, but the charm of the original buildings made them somewhat noteworthy to visit prior to the renovations. I wonder how much revenue they return to the MDTA, especially for gas and diesel purchases, and if they attract any significant amount of true long-distance traffic versus opportunistic locals commuting to/from Baltimore.
Maryland House has traditionally been one of the most profitable turnpike service plazas in the United States, since there are none on I-95 south of there.
Note that there was once a place advertised as a service plaza on I-95 in Baltimore City, signed on I-95 as "Baltimore Travel Plaza," but it lacked direct ramps to and from I-95 and I-895 (and had no access from southbound 895) on O'Donnell Street Cut-Off (https://www.google.com/maps/place/39%C2%B016'42.2%22N+76%C2%B032'52.9%22W/@39.2783801,-76.5502067,561m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!1m7!3m6!1s0x89c803ff6dffba75:0x7ee26589e6ab83b8!2s1100+Interstate+Ave,+Baltimore,+MD+21224!3b1!8m2!3d39.2793233!4d-76.552526!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d39.2783779!4d-76.5480185) and I think once had some sort of connection to the municipal government of Baltimore City and is now a T/A truck stop. I have not been there in many years (and not since T/A took it over), for the place was dirty and run-down and the fuel dispensers did not work well.
Regarding Chesapeake House especially, the old building (built about 1975, 12 years after Maryland House) was in very poor condition and needed to be torn down and replaced.
Quote from: kennyshark on February 25, 2020, 01:05:22 PM
Just a theory...
Anyone think the Indiana Toll Road service plazas might be better quality if it was still under state control rather than publicly-owned?
They were shitty back then. Even the new ones are an improvement.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 25, 2020, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 25, 2020, 10:34:36 AM
WV Turnpike. Three service areas, the north most and south most reachable only northbound (there is a smaller, improvised one for southbound parallel to the north most one. The central one (Tamarack) is reachable from either direction.
This is because the road used to be two lane and it just worked out that way, more than anything. While the areas were completely gutted and rebuilt, they never did a ramp to allow access for the other side. Back in the day when it was two lane, and the road was on the "closed" ticket system, the restaurants were the "Glass House" which was table service, and you could, at least at Beckley, go there and then return to the exit with a receipt and pay no toll.
The three rest areas are pretty similar. Exxon, with a "food court" consisting of the typical fast food. The central one, at Beckley, adds a truck stop with a large truck parking lot, showers, and like that (BTW, big prostitution sting there a couple of years ago). And then the money pit that is Tamarack, which, as HB notes, can be accessed from a back entrance. Tamarack is a store selling faux hill folk brick brack. Bleeds $$.
There has been talk of shuttering the south most one. Since the turnpike does not charge a "side toll" (you can use any of the exits, save one, without charge, just like a normal interstate), and the road is only 88 miles long, there is little need for service areas in the first place, and the south most one is just a few miles north of Princeton, which has plenty of services, and less than 40 from Wytheville, VA, which has far more (and lower Virginia fuel taxes to boot) it really does not make enough to even pay the staff.
If I'm not mistaken, it's possible to access the northernmost travel plaza from the little county road that runs parallel to the turnpike in that area. Not sure about the southernmost one.
I can't think there's really that much need for the northernmost plaza, although the parking lot seems full every time I have passed by there. You're not that far from either Beckley or the Kanawha City/Chesapeake area with all the restaurants and gas stations there. A standard rest area would probably be sufficient.
Back in the '80s and before traveling the full length of the WV Turnpike was much more of an odyssey between the 55mph speed limit, two-lane sections and automobiles that were much more tiring to drive. For truckers though, the Turnpike and I-77 in general is more of a challenge than other interstates even today.
Among the notable service plazas.
On the New York State Thruway:
Angola. This one is in the median, but the exit ramps and the parking is on the right hand side. To get to the plaza building, you have to take an overhead crosswalk over the highway lanes. There is also a gas station on each side after the parking area.
Sloatsburg. On the northbound side, it is the first plaza on the Thruway west of the Hudson River, and is the only plaza I've ever seen with its own parking garage! This makes sense for two reasons (1) no room to expand due to being hemmed in by mountains, and (2) it's a popular stop, since it's the first plaza encountered after getting out of the New York City metro area, by which time the "we have to go to the bathroom"s begin. Indeed, that second point actually precedes the construction of the Thruway; the parallel "old route", NY-17, had a popular stop called the "Red Apple Rest" right around the same point. Last I heard it's still standing, but has been abandoned for a while.
Ramapo. On the southbound side across from Sloatsburg. Originally, there was only a parking lot here; customers had to walk across an overhead crosswalk to get to the Sloatsburg plaza. But services were eventually added to the southbound side. Not sure if or when the Ramapo name was added later. The bridge is still intact, BTW, but it appears to be fenced off.
Quote from: lepidopteran on February 25, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
Among the notable service plazas.
On the New York State Thruway:
Ramapo. On the southbound side across from Sloatsburg. Originally, there was only a parking lot here; customers had to walk across an overhead crosswalk to get to the Sloatsburg plaza. But services were eventually added to the southbound side. Not sure if or when the Ramapo name was added later. The bridge is still intact, BTW, but it appears to be fenced off.
As a frequent passenger in my parent's car in the early 1970s, I believe the SB plaza was always Ramapo.
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on February 24, 2020, 09:01:36 PM
did the old skyway mcdonalds let you do an u-turn for free?
Yes. It even had a single drive-through that was available for traffic from both directions, if I remember correctly. Since the the restaurant was to the southeast of the toll barrier one could conceivably drive from Indiana to get a Big Mac fix and return home without paying a toll, though I have no idea why they would. There are more conveniently-located Golden Arches at 106th and State Line Rd., which we've been known to visit on our way to The Loop.
Regarding the Indiana Service Plazas, I agree with others that they are miserably cramped. I had high hopes when they were recently rebuilt, but I was badly disappointed. It's impossible to know if they had turned out better if the state still ran the Toll Road. I also agree that Ohio has the best plazas in the Midwest, showing great improvement in resent years. In years gone by, we used to make a point of getting off the Turnpike at Toledo for dinner, but the current selections make exiting unnecessary. Illinois's food selections are a close second to Ohio in my opinion.
Historically, I recall most of the Ohio and Pennsylvania plazas once featured Howard Johnson's cafeterias, but we tried to avoid them. You've never lived until you've sampled the Jell-o cubes that have been out on the cafeteria line all day.
Quoteauthor=theline link=topic=26457.msg2480744#msg2480744 date=1582706282
Historically, I recall most of the Ohio and Pennsylvania plazas once featured Howard Johnson's cafeterias, but we tried to avoid them. You've never lived until you've sampled the Jell-o cubes that have been out on the cafeteria line all day.
Never knew that Howard Johnson's had cafeteria-style restaurants. As they say, you learn something new every day. Of course, the McDonalds at the Indiana Toll Road service plazas used to be notorious for making a big batch of sausage biscuits at the start of the breakfast hours and letting them sit under the heat lamps all morning. Nothing quite like a dried out biscuit, which usually crumbled in a "poof' when you tried to eat it.
Are there service plazas today that have cafeteria-style restaurants?
Quote from: chays on February 20, 2020, 01:22:46 PM
-Do you have any interesting anecdotes about any particular plaza?
The last time I ate at a service plaza was the Ohio Turnpike Towpath plaza between I-71 and I-77.
I went up to the combined Pizza Hut and KFC counter, and was served by a guy wearing a Burger King uniform. Thought that was kinda funny. Was tempted to ask him if I could order off the Panera Bread menu and then pick it up over at the Starbucks counter.
Quote from: roadman on February 26, 2020, 11:44:54 AM
Never knew that Howard Johnson's had cafeteria-style restaurants.
I'd be interested in learning more about the cafeteria setup as it applied to Howard Johnson's toll road locations. From what I've seen in old photos (like this one (https://live.staticflickr.com/5296/5439146829_28f92da150_o.jpg) showing table service at a Pennsylvania Turnpike location circa the early '60s–by my guess), I'm inclined to believe that the cafeteria setup wasn't entirely universal.
Perhaps the company reserved the cafeteria arrangement for either high-volume locations or locations where the local labor pool made it difficult to maintain adequate staffing–or perhaps a combination of the two factors. Or maybe it was something Howard Johnson's primarily rolled out in later years ('70s/'80s) as traveler preferences shifted toward fast food and the company struggled to maintain profitability.
OrangeRoof.org (http://www.highwayhost.org/Connecticut/ConnPike/connpike1.html), the Howard Johnson's history website, mentions that Howard Johnson's won a contract for Connecticut's service plazas in 1975. (I wonder what they were prior; amazing to me that a turnpike in Howard Johnson's backyard didn't have a contract with HoJo from day one.) And the company remodeled the service plazas, implementing a cafeteria-type layout. There's a photo of the cafeteria line on the page linked above. But the timing of the cafeteria implementation in Connecticut (1975) leads me to believe it was something that the company resorted to in its declining years.
Quote from: sbeaver44 on February 26, 2020, 02:01:36 PM
Are there service plazas today that have cafeteria-style restaurants?
I don't know about today, but the cafeteria scheme was still in place at a few PA Turnpike locations up until about a decade ago.
When I first encountered the Allentown Service Plaza in the 1990s, the Roy Rogers was set up in a cafeteria arrangement where you'd pick up a tray, pass a line of stainless steel chutes with pre-made sandwiches, pass a warming rack with pre-filled fry boxes, and then come to a cashier at the end who would total your order and give you a drink cup. As I recall, the Roy Rogers at Peter J. Camiel (pre-renovation) was virtually identical. Since their renovations, both have been reconfigured with typical fast food counter service (like all standalone Roy's locations–as far as I know).
Quote from: sbeaver44 on February 26, 2020, 02:01:36 PMAre there service plazas today that have cafeteria-style restaurants?
I believe ones along the NJ Turnpike still have such for certain restaurants within the plaza.
The Roy Rogers at the Delaware Turnpike service plaza used the same arrangement briantroutman describes. I have not stopped at that plaza in years, possibly not since 2002, in large part because I seldom use that route north anymore, so I have no idea what's there now.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 26, 2020, 04:29:00 PM
The Roy Rogers at the Delaware Turnpike service plaza used the same arrangement... I have no idea what's there now.
That service plaza, since renamed the "Biden Welcome Center" , was completely razed and rebuilt in the relatively recent past. Unlike several reconstructed plazas on the PA Turnpike, Delaware's Roy Rogers did not survive the transition. But like the new PA plazas, the giant open-air space is ringed by several standard order-at-counter fast food storefronts.
Quote from: briantroutman on February 26, 2020, 04:05:09 PM
Quote from: roadman on February 26, 2020, 11:44:54 AM
Never knew that Howard Johnson's had cafeteria-style restaurants.
I'd be interested in learning more about the cafeteria setup as it applied to Howard Johnson's toll road locations. From what I've seen in old photos (like this one (https://live.staticflickr.com/5296/5439146829_28f92da150_o.jpg) showing table service at a Pennsylvania Turnpike location circa the early '60s–by my guess), I'm inclined to believe that the cafeteria setup wasn't entirely universal.
Perhaps the company reserved the cafeteria arrangement for either high-volume locations or locations where the local labor pool made it difficult to maintain adequate staffing–or perhaps a combination of the two factors. Or maybe it was something Howard Johnson's primarily rolled out in later years ('70s/'80s) as traveler preferences shifted toward fast food and the company struggled to maintain profitability.
OrangeRoof.org (http://www.highwayhost.org/Connecticut/ConnPike/connpike1.html), the Howard Johnson's history website, mentions that Howard Johnson's won a contract for Connecticut's service plazas in 1975. (I wonder what they were prior; amazing to me that a turnpike in Howard Johnson's backyard didn't have a contract with HoJo from day one.) And the company remodeled the service plazas, implementing a cafeteria-type layout. There's a photo of the cafeteria line on the page linked above. But the timing of the cafeteria implementation in Connecticut (1975) leads me to believe it was something that the company resorted to in its declining years.
Quote from: sbeaver44 on February 26, 2020, 02:01:36 PM
Are there service plazas today that have cafeteria-style restaurants?
I don't know about today, but the cafeteria scheme was still in place at a few PA Turnpike locations up until about a decade ago.
When I first encountered the Allentown Service Plaza in the 1990s, the Roy Rogers was set up in a cafeteria arrangement where you'd pick up a tray, pass a line of stainless steel chutes with pre-made sandwiches, pass a warming rack with pre-filled fry boxes, and then come to a cashier at the end who would total your order and give you a drink cup. As I recall, the Roy Rogers at Peter J. Camiel (pre-renovation) was virtually identical. Since their renovations, both have been reconfigured with typical fast food counter service (like all standalone Roy's locations–as far as I know).
Oh yeah I do remember that Roy's at Peter J. Camiel.
Quote from: lepidopteran on February 25, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
Sloatsburg. On the northbound side, it is the first plaza on the Thruway west of the Hudson River, and is the only plaza I've ever seen with its own parking garage! This makes sense for two reasons (1) no room to expand due to being hemmed in by mountains, and (2) it's a popular stop, since it's the first plaza encountered after getting out of the New York City metro area, by which time the "we have to go to the bathroom"s begin. Indeed, that second point actually precedes the construction of the Thruway; the parallel "old route", NY-17, had a popular stop called the "Red Apple Rest" right around the same point. Last I heard it's still standing, but has been abandoned for a while.
Also worth noting that Sloatsburg serves not one but two corridors - I-87 north and NY 17 west. They don't split until exit 16.
Do bathroom stops happen disproportionately leaving metro areas? I've noticed on I-87 that the rest areas favor northbound - in particular, Clifton Park has no southbound counterpart. Similarly on the Thruway, the Ardsley service area has no southbound counterpart.
Quote from: briantroutman on February 26, 2020, 04:05:09 PM
Quote from: roadman on February 26, 2020, 11:44:54 AM
Never knew that Howard Johnson's had cafeteria-style restaurants.
I'd be interested in learning more about the cafeteria setup as it applied to Howard Johnson's toll road locations. From what I've seen in old photos (like this one (https://live.staticflickr.com/5296/5439146829_28f92da150_o.jpg) showing table service at a Pennsylvania Turnpike location circa the early '60s–by my guess), I'm inclined to believe that the cafeteria setup wasn't entirely universal.
Perhaps the company reserved the cafeteria arrangement for either high-volume locations or locations where the local labor pool made it difficult to maintain adequate staffing–or perhaps a combination of the two factors. Or maybe it was something Howard Johnson's primarily rolled out in later years ('70s/'80s) as traveler preferences shifted toward fast food and the company struggled to maintain profitability.
OrangeRoof.org (http://www.highwayhost.org/Connecticut/ConnPike/connpike1.html), the Howard Johnson's history website, mentions that Howard Johnson's won a contract for Connecticut's service plazas in 1975. (I wonder what they were prior; amazing to me that a turnpike in Howard Johnson's backyard didn't have a contract with HoJo from day one.) And the company remodeled the service plazas, implementing a cafeteria-type layout. There's a photo of the cafeteria line on the page linked above. But the timing of the cafeteria implementation in Connecticut (1975) leads me to believe it was something that the company resorted to in its declining years.
Quote from: sbeaver44 on February 26, 2020, 02:01:36 PM
Are there service plazas today that have cafeteria-style restaurants?
I don't know about today, but the cafeteria scheme was still in place at a few PA Turnpike locations up until about a decade ago.
When I first encountered the Allentown Service Plaza in the 1990s, the Roy Rogers was set up in a cafeteria arrangement where you'd pick up a tray, pass a line of stainless steel chutes with pre-made sandwiches, pass a warming rack with pre-filled fry boxes, and then come to a cashier at the end who would total your order and give you a drink cup. As I recall, the Roy Rogers at Peter J. Camiel (pre-renovation) was virtually identical. Since their renovations, both have been reconfigured with typical fast food counter service (like all standalone Roy's locations–as far as I know).
I'm quite sure that my encounters with the cafeteria-style HoJos on the Ohio/PA turnpikes was when I was driving in the '70s and early '80s. When I was a young passenger in the '50s and '60s, I think the restaurants has table service. That's foggier in my aging brain though.
I just checked with my wife, who can't recall the Ohio/PA HoJos, but she clearly recalls sit-down HoJos in the Tri-State Tollway oases in the '60s.
Quote from: vdeane on February 26, 2020, 08:47:06 PM
Do bathroom stops happen disproportionately leaving metro areas? I've noticed on I-87 that the rest areas favor northbound - in particular, Clifton Park has no southbound counterpart. Similarly on the Thruway, the Ardsley service area has no southbound counterpart.
I noticed that the rest areas on I-5 around Seattle favor inbound travelers. There are no corresponding rest areas on the other side for outbound travelers. I imagine there could be desperate situations where you may be looking for a parking spot and a bathroom, and, yes, information for attractions in the city. Also, not having outbound rest areas discourages extra-curricular activity there.
Quote from: vdeane on February 26, 2020, 08:47:06 PM
Do bathroom stops happen disproportionately leaving metro areas? I've noticed on I-87 that the rest areas favor northbound - in particular, Clifton Park has no southbound counterpart. Similarly on the Thruway, the Ardsley service area has no southbound counterpart.
There used to be a SB area on the Northway near to opposite Clifton Park but it was closed many, many years (in the 70s probably) ago due to illegal hangouts going on there. I really have no recollection where exactly it was.
EDIT: Looking at it Google Earth, I believe it was between Exits 11 and 10. Link in Google Maps is https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clifton+Park,+NY/@42.9150241,-73.7980691,662m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89de134e8818c603:0x4d433646c523c77a!8m2!3d42.844668!4d-73.8183804 but if you look at the same area in Google Earth and then use the historical imagery time slider to go back to 1997, it's much more obvious as a lot of trees have taken back that area in the last 23 years.
Quote from: lstone19 on February 28, 2020, 12:21:46 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 26, 2020, 08:47:06 PM
Do bathroom stops happen disproportionately leaving metro areas? I've noticed on I-87 that the rest areas favor northbound - in particular, Clifton Park has no southbound counterpart. Similarly on the Thruway, the Ardsley service area has no southbound counterpart.
There used to be a SB area on the Northway near to opposite Clifton Park but it was closed many, many years (in the 70s probably) ago due to illegal hangouts going on there. I really have no recollection where exactly it was.
EDIT: Looking at it Google Earth, I believe it was between Exits 11 and 10. Link in Google Maps is https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clifton+Park,+NY/@42.9150241,-73.7980691,662m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89de134e8818c603:0x4d433646c523c77a!8m2!3d42.844668!4d-73.8183804 but if you look at the same area in Google Earth and then use the historical imagery time slider to go back to 1997, it's much more obvious as a lot of trees have taken back that area in the last 23 years.
Yep, that's where it was. I found it (or at least the remains of it) on a 1978 aerial image on USGS Earth Explorer.
Quote from: theline on February 26, 2020, 03:38:02 AM
Historically, I recall most of the Ohio and Pennsylvania plazas once featured Howard Johnson's cafeterias, but we tried to avoid them. You've never lived until you've sampled the Jell-o cubes that have been out on the cafeteria line all day.
And New Jersey Turnpike too.
;-)
Here's what one of the ones at the Joyce Kilmer Service Center was in October 2018.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Joyce_Kilmer_Service_Area;_Nathan%27s_and_Hershey%27s.jpg
I don't know if those franchises are still there today.
The lottery machines at the NJTP plazas don't check for ID before they dispense. I've always found that odd.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on February 29, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
The lottery machines at the NJTP plazas don't check for ID before they dispense. I've always found that odd.
I've never seen a lottery machine that does. The Illinois ones (anywhere) do not either.
Quote from: Brandon on March 02, 2020, 05:46:31 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on February 29, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
The lottery machines at the NJTP plazas don't check for ID before they dispense. I've always found that odd.
I've never seen a lottery machine that does. The Illinois ones (anywhere) do not either.
No NJ Lottery machine checks ID. Neither do ones I've used in PA, DE, MD, and VA.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 02, 2020, 07:52:40 AM
Quote from: Brandon on March 02, 2020, 05:46:31 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on February 29, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
The lottery machines at the NJTP plazas don't check for ID before they dispense. I've always found that odd.
I've never seen a lottery machine that does. The Illinois ones (anywhere) do not either.
No NJ Lottery machine checks ID. Neither do ones I've used in PA, DE, MD, and VA.
Add MA to that list.
Quote from: roadman on March 02, 2020, 09:38:52 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 02, 2020, 07:52:40 AM
Quote from: Brandon on March 02, 2020, 05:46:31 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on February 29, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
The lottery machines at the NJTP plazas don't check for ID before they dispense. I've always found that odd.
I've never seen a lottery machine that does. The Illinois ones (anywhere) do not either.
No NJ Lottery machine checks ID. Neither do ones I've used in PA, DE, MD, and VA.
Add MA to that list.
The ones I know of definitely do.
I've never heard of a lottery machine that checks ID. How would that even work, given the varied sorts of IDs across the country?
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 02, 2020, 09:44:28 AM
I've never heard of a lottery machine that checks ID. How would that even work, given the varied sorts of IDs across the country?
Airline and Hotel self-service check-in machines read and validate IDs - surely Lotto machines also can
I've never bought a Lotto ticket from a machine, so no data on IL or other states Lotto
I do know the self-service check-in machines @ Caesar's properties in Vegas have never once validated my Illinois license via their ID reader. Always ends up going to the desk to check in the old fashioned way. Airline self-service check-ins have validated my ID, tho
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 02, 2020, 09:44:28 AM
I've never heard of a lottery machine that checks ID. How would that even work, given the varied sorts of IDs across the country?
To the best of my knowledge, AAMVA (https://www.aamva.org/), which is to state DMVs what AASHTO is to state DOTs, maintains certain standards regarding the design and encoding of information on state drivers' licenses to allow for interstate interchange of license data.
Quote from: roadman on February 26, 2020, 11:44:54 AM
Quoteauthor=theline link=topic=26457.msg2480744#msg2480744 date=1582706282
Historically, I recall most of the Ohio and Pennsylvania plazas once featured Howard Johnson's cafeterias, but we tried to avoid them. You've never lived until you've sampled the Jell-o cubes that have been out on the cafeteria line all day.
Never knew that Howard Johnson's had cafeteria-style restaurants. As they say, you learn something new every day.
The Northbound WV Turnpike Howard Johnson's were also like this.
Quote from: Brandon on March 02, 2020, 05:46:31 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on February 29, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
The lottery machines at the NJTP plazas don't check for ID before they dispense. I've always found that odd.
I've never seen a lottery machine that does. The Illinois ones (anywhere) do not either.
Ours in CT do.
Quote from: briantroutman on March 03, 2020, 10:40:44 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 02, 2020, 09:44:28 AM
I've never heard of a lottery machine that checks ID. How would that even work, given the varied sorts of IDs across the country?
To the best of my knowledge, AAMVA (https://www.aamva.org/), which is to state DMVs what AASHTO is to state DOTs, maintains certain standards regarding the design and encoding of information on state drivers' licenses to allow for interstate interchange of license data.
So what happens to people who don't use driver's licenses as their IDs?
(Regarding the comment above about airline and hotel checkin kiosks, I normally do both of those online and so have not used a machine in years.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2020, 07:45:08 AM
So what happens to people who don't use driver's licenses as their IDs?
Assumably, people trying to use a passport, Global Entry card, DoD ID, etc. as a form of ID would be out of luck. But I'd estimate that the percentage of eligible people trying to buy lottery tickets at a service plaza kiosk who
do possess a passport or other valid form of ID–but
don't also have either a driver's license or state-issued non-driver ID card in their possession–would be exceptionally small.