Spinning this from the COVID thread since it's a fun debate in all of the Lakes states.
In Minnesota I consider MN 210 to be the unofficial dividing line, but others consider traditional stopping points like Little Falls or Hinckley to be the start of "up north" .
1. MN 27 - a more literal definition, cutting the state in half from west to east. In my mind it's a little too far from the northern woods, minus the long jog on MN 65.
2. MN 210 - really the boundary between the woods to the north and farmland to the south. As mentioned this is my choice for the dividing line, possibly flipping onto US 10 where they meet going westward.
3. MN 200 - a good argument can be made for this route given it connects key tourist spots Itasca Stats Park and Leech Lake, definitely deep in the northwoods.
4. US 2 - while it fits some of the same descriptors as MN 200, it feels like you've been up north for a while before you hit this route.
5. MN 1 - only the hardcore up north folks think it's this far. :-D
Wisconsin, I would go with WIS 70. US 8 seems a little too far south.
Massachusetts has a pretty clear line: the Cape Cod Canal. However, there is a lot of coastline in the state, so vacation homes can be elsewhere, too.
Indiana does not have a clear delineation separating primarily residential and primarily vacation areas.
North of IN 14 you have a lot of natural lakes with a lot of vacation properties, but you also have three population centers in this zone that aren't at all vacation country.
South of IN 44 is where the state is more rural and less flat, and you have a lot of camping and recreation activity, but not quite the volume of permanent vacation properties.
In CT, it's US 1 for the shoreline. There are also some pockets in Litchfield County around lakes.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 13, 2020, 01:55:51 PM
Wisconsin, I would go with WIS 70. US 8 seems a little too far south.
"Up North" is Highway 29.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Wis-29-map.png)
That is a bias for those of us who frequent the I-39/US 51 corridor. Once you leave Wausau and get the cool view around Brokaw, it feels like 'Up North'. I'm sure it doesn't feel much like 'Up North' for folks in Green Bay or Hudson. But it does include Door County; a very 'Up North' kind of place in this state.
In Illinois, up north is pretty much anything on the other side of the "Cheddar Curtain," less facetiously known as the Wisconsin border.
in Michigan, its anything north of Flint/Lansing.
In Missouri, you have the Ozark Highlands in the south (except the west-central area) and plains in the north. The Ozarks contains several large lakes, including Table Rock Lake and Lake of the Ozarks (those are the two lakes that are the most developed). Due to the Geography of the Ozarks and the layout of the state highway system, this is difficult to do with a single route.
Subdividing the state, we have:
South and east of a US-60 up to US-63 up to I-44 line for the state's most rugged areas.
Dividing the state nearly 50/50 would be.. US 50. What a coincidence.
A Route 52-17-I-44 line for "Lake Country".
Down further south, in Arkansas, you have US-67 dividing the U.S. Interior Highlands (Ozarks & Ouachita mountains) and the flat Mississippi Alluvial Plain.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 13, 2020, 03:18:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 13, 2020, 01:55:51 PM
Wisconsin, I would go with WIS 70. US 8 seems a little too far south.
"Up North" is Highway 29.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Wis-29-map.png)
That is a bias for those of us who frequent the I-39/US 51 corridor. Once you leave Wausau and get the cool view around Brokaw, it feels like 'Up North'. I'm sure it doesn't feel much like 'Up North' for folks in Green Bay or Hudson. But it does include Door County; a very 'Up North' kind of place in this state.
I've always heard the phrase "north of 64," with is basically the next highway north from WI-29. Parts of Green Bay, Wausau and Eau Claire shouldn't be considered "up north."
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 13, 2020, 01:55:51 PM
Wisconsin, I would go with WIS 70. US 8 seems a little too far south.
I think US-8 is too far south. There is plenty of "up north" south of that highway...Crivitz, Wabeno, Tomahawk....are are "up north."
Quote from: ozarkman417 on April 13, 2020, 03:57:25 PM
Down further south, in Arkansas, you have US-67 dividing the U.S. Interior Highlands (Ozarks & Ouachita mountains) and the flat Mississippi Alluvial Plain.
Arkansas is more like 6 different regions with the Ozarks/Boston Mtns. being very different kinds of mountains than the Ouachitas, which are weird in that they run E-W and pretty much every other mountain range in the US runs N-S. Makes for a rather difficult slog for finishing I-49 between Fort Smith and Texarkana. They are more traditional mountains in the sense that they are up-heaved folds, whereas the Ozarks are eroded plateau, which is why people in other parts of the country don't even consider the Ozark region to contain "real" mountains. The southern reaches of the Boston Mtns., which are the highest parts of the Ozarks, aren't that much higher than the rest of the plateau, but the valleys are really deep, which is what gives the elevation differential to consider them mountains instead of hills. The Arkansas River makes up a region all its own in the western half of the state, dividing the 2 ranges. The Gulf Coast Plains in the south/southwest part of the state are where most of the timberlands and paper/lumber production is, and the Delta makes up pretty much the eastern 1/3 of the state until you get down to about Pine Bluff where the timberlands get closer to the Mississippi River. There is a huge, weird ridge called Crowley's Ridge that runs 150 miles in NorthEast Arkansas that is between 250 and 550ft. higher than the delta plains around it. It is still being pushed up and posited that it may be related to the New Madrid fault.
I would say in Arkansas, the vacation portion of the state isn't divided north from south, but more northwest half from southeast half along US-67/I-30/Future I-57.
For Michigan it's a bit rugged. From the East it's M-61 to M-66 then down to M-46.
Saginaw and the thumb certainly aren't up north.
Quote from: cwf1701 on April 13, 2020, 03:41:12 PM
in Michigan, its anything north of Flint/Lansing.
I would say that's drawing the line too far south.
For Jerseyans who do NOT go to the shore, I'd say it's the Poconos, the Catskills, and even the Adirondacks.
In California it seems to be anything north of Tejon Pass for the SoCal crowd. For the Central part of the state the destinations seem to mostly be in the Sierra Nevada Mountains or north of the Bay Area (aside from Big Sur and Pismo Beach). In Arizona it seemed like the Mogollon Rim to the Utah State Line was consisted "up north." For Michigan it was always north of Lansing and Grand Rapids when I was growing up. The Florida Keys seemed like the vacation spot for the state unless you were a theme park fiend.
Oregon sees the PDX/Salem people head for the North Coast in the summer and for those who ski, the destination is Bend/Central Oregon in the winter.
So where do we folks who live on the South Coast go? The Valley! Eugene/Springfield and PDX are popular destinations for enjoying Big City life.
Rick
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2020, 06:17:09 PM
In California it seems to be anything north of Tejon Pass for the SoCal crowd. For the Central part of the state the destinations seem to mostly be in the Sierra Nevada Mountains or north of the Bay Area (aside from Big Sur and Pismo Beach). In Arizona it seemed like the Mogollon Rim to the Utah State Line was consisted "up north." For Michigan it was always north of Lansing and Grand Rapids when I was growing up. The Florida Keys seemed like the vacation spot for the state unless you were a theme park fiend.
Assuming this is for the "get out of town" type of getaway (or where people are most likely to own/rent vacation homes):
When I lived in L.A./Long Beach, it usually meant one of three things:
-Desert: Palm Springs/Palm Desert
-Mountains: either Mammoth or Big Bear/Lake Arrowhead
-Wine Country: Santa Barbara/Santa Ynez or Paso Robles
Here in the Bay Area, it usually means:
-Mountains: Tahoe or Yosemite
-Wine Country: Napa/Sonoma
-North Coast: Redwoods/Mendocino
-Central Coast: Monterey/Big Sur
Quote from: DTComposer on April 13, 2020, 06:48:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2020, 06:17:09 PM
In California it seems to be anything north of Tejon Pass for the SoCal crowd. For the Central part of the state the destinations seem to mostly be in the Sierra Nevada Mountains or north of the Bay Area (aside from Big Sur and Pismo Beach). In Arizona it seemed like the Mogollon Rim to the Utah State Line was consisted "up north." For Michigan it was always north of Lansing and Grand Rapids when I was growing up. The Florida Keys seemed like the vacation spot for the state unless you were a theme park fiend.
Assuming this is for the "get out of town" type of getaway (or where people are most likely to own/rent vacation homes):
When I lived in L.A./Long Beach, it usually meant one of three things:
-Desert: Palm Springs/Palm Desert
-Mountains: either Mammoth or Big Bear/Lake Arrowhead
-Wine Country: Santa Barbara/Santa Ynez or Paso Robles
Here in the Bay Area, it usually means:
-Mountains: Tahoe or Yosemite
-Wine Country: Napa/Sonoma
-North Coast: Redwoods/Mendocino
-Central Coast: Monterey/Big Sur
One I'm forgetting about with SoCal is Big Bear. It seems most of the Big Bear crowd is either Inland Empire or Mojave Desert centric.
The Mammoth crowd is absolutely brutal aside from a couple stray months where you can get to Devil's Post Pile relatively unabated. That crowd drives up the hotel prices in Lone Pine and Bishop even...usually I tried to camp or just do a day trip from Fresno by way of Sherman Pass/Tioga Pass.
Most of the Fresno Crowd is big on the Sierras. The beach crowd prefers Pismo for some reason over places like Big Sur, San Simeon, Monterey, and Moro Bay. For some reason Santa Cruz is a big draw from carnivals, it seems like a lot of people like to stop in Casa de Fruita.
I'm really not sure who the Tahoe crowd is but there is always a ton of people up there I the summer. I'm assuming that's mostly Sacramento and Reno folks.
Colorado is pretty easy:
The "up-north" moniker is pretty much everything north of I-70.
The "Vacationland" moniker is pretty much everything about 10-20 miles west of I-25 as soon as you hit the foothills of the Rockies.
Quote from: J3ebrules on April 13, 2020, 05:31:05 PM
For Jerseyans who do NOT go to the shore, I'd say it's the Poconos, the Catskills, and even the Adirondacks.
Some friends of ours ran into some Jerseyans on Keuka Lake one time.. which is a good 3-1/2 to 4 hours even from the nearest parts of Jersey, and more west than north.
Quote from: DTComposer on April 13, 2020, 06:48:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2020, 06:17:09 PM
In California it seems to be anything north of Tejon Pass for the SoCal crowd. For the Central part of the state the destinations seem to mostly be in the Sierra Nevada Mountains or north of the Bay Area (aside from Big Sur and Pismo Beach). In Arizona it seemed like the Mogollon Rim to the Utah State Line was consisted "up north." For Michigan it was always north of Lansing and Grand Rapids when I was growing up. The Florida Keys seemed like the vacation spot for the state unless you were a theme park fiend.
Assuming this is for the "get out of town" type of getaway (or where people are most likely to own/rent vacation homes):
When I lived in L.A./Long Beach, it usually meant one of three things:
-Desert: Palm Springs/Palm Desert
-Mountains: either Mammoth or Big Bear/Lake Arrowhead
-Wine Country: Santa Barbara/Santa Ynez or Paso Robles
Here in the Bay Area, it usually means:
-Mountains: Tahoe or Yosemite
-Wine Country: Napa/Sonoma
-North Coast: Redwoods/Mendocino
-Central Coast: Monterey/Big Sur
In the Sacramento area "get out of town" type of getaway its the same as the Bay Area though
But with a few additions such as going to Reno and going to the Mount Shasta region.
The San Juan Islands, which have seen an influx of "refugees" despite having no hospital and only a small grocer. The islanders are not pleased.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 13, 2020, 02:08:06 PM
Indiana does not have a clear delineation separating primarily residential and primarily vacation areas.
North of IN 14 you have a lot of natural lakes with a lot of vacation properties, but you also have three population centers in this zone that aren't at all vacation country.
South of IN 44 is where the state is more rural and less flat, and you have a lot of camping and recreation activity, but not quite the volume of permanent vacation properties.
Specifically, at least for the Indianapolis crowd, Brown County in southern Indiana usually gets a special mention in terms of a destination. A good number of cabins and campsites make it quite popular for a weekend trip from the city.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 13, 2020, 01:55:51 PM
it's a fun debate in all of the Lakes states.
Might as well include New York as a Lakes state... why not?
There's no hard and fast line, but anything east of NY 12 and north of NY 29 is definitely "North Country".
You also get a lot of vacationing/summer travel in the Finger Lakes and Catskills.
As far as routes that connect population centers to vacation destinations, the Thruway is the big collector-distributor statewide. I-87 (the Northway) north of Albany is probably the most famous as far as having a direct seasonal tie in to congestion. NY 332 is the big one for the Rochester area, and NY 104 to a lesser extent (but still enough to make the 2-lane portion a frustrating drive). There's not a lot of clear cut ones other than that. US 20/NY 5 and NY 14, maybe a bit. Honestly not really sure for Syracuse and Buffalo. They don't have a single route to the Finger Lakes like Rochester does. Maybe US 219 between Buffalo and the Chautauqua-Allegany region? NY 481 between Syracuse and the Lake Ontario beaches? Now I'm really stretching it... :-D
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 13, 2020, 01:55:51 PM
In Minnesota I consider MN 210 to be the unofficial dividing line, but others consider traditional stopping points like Little Falls or Hinckley to be the start of "up north" .
Personally, I actually think I-94 does a pretty good job dividing MN between forest/lake country (north) and farm country (south).
If you use both I-94 and MN 210, you're left with a triangle that has some characteristics of the true north, but just isn't quite there yet. :)
Cape Cod, the Islands, the Berkshires, and to a lesser extent the North Shore/South Shore.
In South Carolina, I'd say anywhere north of US 123 or US 29 is the "mountains" to us in the Charleston area. A very small percentage of the population of the state is in that region. Some people use I-85, but you'd have basically the entire Greenville-Spartanburg metro as a part of that.
Clemson is in that area, right along 123. The tens of thousands of folks who drive up there every football home weekend from the Lowcountry think it is the mountains. You can see the Blue Ridge from there.
For the coast, most non-locals probably say anywhere east of US 17 is the coast before you get to Georgetown. Once you get above Georgetown, it is probably US 701. Coming from Charleston, at Georgetown if you go straight you use 701 to get to Conway and Loris, 17 to get to Myrtle Beach.
77 and 26 are big dividing lines for beach traffic. There are a lot of northeast TN tags down at the Charleston beaches in the summer because of the direct route on 26, and tons of Ohio and West Virginia thanks to 77. Kentucky and Ohio folks also come here frequently because of the easy connection from 75 to 40 to 26.
Quote from: webny99 on April 13, 2020, 08:32:19 PM
Quote from: J3ebrules on April 13, 2020, 05:31:05 PM
For Jerseyans who do NOT go to the shore, I'd say it's the Poconos, the Catskills, and even the Adirondacks.
Some friends of ours ran into some Jerseyans on Keuka Lake one time.. which is a good 3-1/2 to 4 hours even from the nearest parts of Jersey, and more west than north.
I LOVE the Finger Lakes - Keuka in particular because at least the last time I was there, it was the only one with waveunner rentals. I don't recall seeing a ton of New Jerseyans - more Pennsylvanians and other New Yorkers than anything else.
I would say US 10 for Michigan.
Quote from: 1 on April 13, 2020, 01:58:38 PM
Massachusetts has a pretty clear line: the Cape Cod Canal. However, there is a lot of coastline in the state, so vacation homes can be elsewhere, too.
Don't forget the Berkshires as well, as they get bombarded by New Yorker and other tourists every fall.
Quote from: J3ebrules on April 13, 2020, 05:31:05 PM
For Jerseyans who do NOT go to the shore, I'd say it's the Poconos, the Catskills, and even the Adirondacks.
You can pretty much apply that to Long Islanders and New Yorkers... or you can just use the usual rule of thumb about the definition of "Upstate," i.e.; everything north of The Bronx.
Although I'm pretty sure "vacation country" doesn't apply to Yonkers, Mount Vernon or Bronxville.
Having watched the traffic on the Northway from my office for over a decade, it's actually a fun bias of mine to discount the Catskills as a destination (all the closed resorts notwithstanding). I'd put the line at Lake George Village. It's vacationland from there north.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2020, 05:22:58 PM
For Michigan it's a bit rugged. From the East it's M-61 to M-66 then down to M-46.
Saginaw and the thumb certainly aren't up north.
I'd switch to M-20 on the west end. And then include any counties in their entirety that those roads pass through. Else, for example, you exclude half of Clare County including Clare itself - which definitely could be considered the door to "up north". And using M-46, you put Muskegon up north - in my opinion it's not.
A lot of the lakeshore communities of the Thumb are considered to be up north by people, because of the cottages and campgrounds there. But I agree with you, while it's a vacation spot, it's not really "up north".
Quote from: D-Dey65 on April 14, 2020, 12:27:20 AM
Quote from: J3ebrules on April 13, 2020, 05:31:05 PM
For Jerseyans who do NOT go to the shore, I'd say it's the Poconos, the Catskills, and even the Adirondacks.
You can pretty much apply that to Long Islanders and New Yorkers... or you can just use the usual rule of thumb about the definition of "Upstate," i.e.; everything north of The Bronx.
Although I'm pretty sure "vacation country" doesn't apply to Yonkers, Mount Vernon or Bronxville.
I wouldn't call Buffalo and Rochester "vacation county"
Within Ohio, it's the north coast - anything east of 75 and north of 2, excluding metro Cleveland (yes, that's a pretty narrow strip of lakefront). It's where I have a permanent camper.
Most Ohio people when they say "up north", they mean Michigan. Lake Cumberland (KY), Myrtle Beach, and Destin are also popular among Buckeyes.
Quote from: GaryV on April 14, 2020, 07:40:35 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2020, 05:22:58 PM
For Michigan it's a bit rugged. From the East it's M-61 to M-66 then down to M-46.
Saginaw and the thumb certainly aren't up north.
I'd switch to M-20 on the west end. And then include any counties in their entirety that those roads pass through. Else, for example, you exclude half of Clare County including Clare itself - which definitely could be considered the door to "up north". And using M-46, you put Muskegon up north - in my opinion it's not.
A lot of the lakeshore communities of the Thumb are considered to be up north by people, because of the cottages and campgrounds there. But I agree with you, while it's a vacation spot, it's not really "up north".
Yeah M-20 might be a better line for that than M-46. I keep forgetting that M-46 dips south using US-131 to do so. Maybe if you keep it M-46 then M-82 could be the line west of US-131 but M-20 is a good line too. Or you could almost use M-20 keeping the line straight in the Canadian Lakes area and then back to US-10 to Bay City but that then puts Midland and Bay City back into the mix. I know that the Turkey Roost Restaurant is a major stopping off point along I-75 heading up north.
Quote from: frankenroad on April 14, 2020, 10:49:37 AM
Most Ohio people when they say "up north", they mean Michigan. Lake Cumberland (KY), Myrtle Beach, and Destin are also popular among Buckeyes.
Ah, yes. The Ohio Navy.
If by "Up North" you're talking geography, then obviously it's the three Cincinnati suburb counties of Boone, Kenton, and Campbell. For vacation areas, then truthfully, Kentucky's "Up North" is Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge, Tenn. But the lakes (Cumberland in the south-central part of the state, Barkley/Kentucky in the western part of the state, and some of the other smaller Corps of Engineers lakes scattered throughout the state) would also deserve consideration.
My area, with Natural Bridge State Resort Park, the Red River Gorge, and various rock climbing and ATV park facilities, is gaining in popularity, especially with out-of-staters.
Both of those are the Cascade/McCall area for people in Boise.
EDIT: And if you're wondering where the line between "Northern Idaho" and "Southern Idaho", I'd say it's Riggins. That's where the time zone split is, Riggins and south is Mountain, north of Riggins is Pacific (roughly, it follows the Salmon River). And US-95 is the only real highway between the two sides (not counting going through OR/WA or MT) so everyone goes through there (the "bottleneck" is between New Meadows and Grangeville).
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 13, 2020, 04:50:11 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 13, 2020, 03:18:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 13, 2020, 01:55:51 PM
Wisconsin, I would go with WIS 70. US 8 seems a little too far south.
"Up North" is Highway 29.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Wis-29-map.png)
That is a bias for those of us who frequent the I-39/US 51 corridor. Once you leave Wausau and get the cool view around Brokaw, it feels like 'Up North'. I'm sure it doesn't feel much like 'Up North' for folks in Green Bay or Hudson. But it does include Door County; a very 'Up North' kind of place in this state.
I've always heard the phrase "north of 64," with is basically the next highway north from WI-29. Parts of Green Bay, Wausau and Eau Claire shouldn't be considered "up north."
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 13, 2020, 01:55:51 PM
Wisconsin, I would go with WIS 70. US 8 seems a little too far south.
I think US-8 is too far south. There is plenty of "up north" south of that highway...Crivitz, Wabeno, Tomahawk....are are "up north."
Not that long ago, I caught a discussion on a Milwaukee radio station about what is considered to be 'Up North™'.
:hmmm:
The responses varied greatly depending on where the various respondents were from, ranging from north of WI 33 all the way to north of US 8.
From my vantage point here in Appleton, I would say 'Up North™' is anything north of WI 29 west of Shawano and WI 22 east of Shawano. To me, there is a very definite change in the scenery and character of the area as one crosses that line.
:nod:
Mike
There are several definitions in Michigan:
1. North of a line running from about Montague/Whitehall to about Pinconning
2. North of US-10
3. North of M-55
4. North of M-72
5. North of the Mackinac Bridge
IMHO, #1 fits the best as there are several decent-sized vacation areas between that imaginary line and US-10, such as Silver Lake Sand Dunes, Croton and Hardy dams, Big Star Lake, and the Canadian Lakes.
Quote from: mgk920 on April 14, 2020, 12:07:35 PM
The responses varied greatly depending on where the various respondents were from, ranging from north of WI 33 all the way to north of US 8.
Indeed. Living where I do compared to where I grew up, I find it amusing if I hear someone refer to a place like Jackson County as "up north".
Quote from: mgk920 on April 14, 2020, 12:07:35 PMFrom my vantage point here in Appleton, I would say 'Up North™' is anything north of WI 29 west of Shawano and WI 22 east of Shawano. To me, there is a very definite change in the scenery and character of the area as one crosses that line.
This bring up a thought I've had about what is 'up north'. While not as famous as the one between the Appalachian Mountains and the coastal plain, we have a Fall Line bowing through Wisconsin. It marks the transition in our bedrock geology between tougher Precambrian metamorphic and volcanic rocks that dominate the northern half of the state and the younger, relatively more erosive Paleozoic strata that cover everything south of there. As all of our mostly south-flowing rivers cross this point, the transition is inevitably a place with a series of waterfalls or large rapids. These were perfect places to set up a mill and new town back in the day because the rivers were all easy to dam.
So just like out east, one can trace the Fall Line by connecting the dots with cities. Draw a line starting at St. Croix Falls and going through Chippewa Falls, Black River Falls, Wisconsin Rapids, Shawano, and Oconto Falls to mark this feature. It creates a demarcation that lines up pretty well with the parts of the state that feel "up north", especially to folks from the big cities to the south.
It's not a precise line, especially in central Wisconsin with all its farmland and mid-sized cities, but it's pretty close. It has the bonus of dipping south to include some pretty wild places in eastern Jackson County, but also gets further north as one gets toward the edges of the state and the proximity those edges have to bigger cities (St. Paul and Green Bay).
I remember having a discussion on what constitutes "up north" in Michigan several years ago, from a geographical standpoint, but don't remember where that discussion was.
PA...it's the battle between Western PA and Eastern PA...and it always seemed to me that the line, from south to north, starts with the Blue Mountain ridge up to the Susquehanna River, and then following the Susquehanna River north, but then it gets kinda nebulous.
Does York and Carlisle and Chambersburg consider themselves Western PA or Eastern? What about Williamsport? or Lock Haven? Or Lewisburg? State College I believe falls under Western.
Or is there a third line that everything above I-80 is considered Northern PA?
From west to east, I'd say something like:
(Alabama) — GA 20 — Rome — GA 53 — Gainesville — US 23 — Cornelia/Toccoa — US 123 — (South Carolina)
I debated whether or not to include Lake Lanier as part of it, but really once you get to the south end of the lake (Cumming/Buford), you're pretty much back in the Atlanta suburban morass. Maybe an argument for GA 400/GA 20/I-985 around the lake, but no farther south.
It kind of depends on what highway you are on too. For I-75 I would say it starts at exit 188 which is the US-23 split near Standish. For US-127, it's when you pass US-10 in the Clare area. For US-131 probably around the Big Rapids area. For US-31, it's Silver Lake.
Few state highways, For M-30, the Midland-Gladwin county line. For M-18, north of Beaverton. For M-66, north of M-46. For M-37, once you get into the Manistee National Forest.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2020, 09:23:48 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on April 14, 2020, 12:27:20 AM
You can pretty much apply that to Long Islanders and New Yorkers... or you can just use the usual rule of thumb about the definition of "Upstate," i.e.; everything north of The Bronx.
Although I'm pretty sure "vacation country" doesn't apply to Yonkers, Mount Vernon or Bronxville.
I wouldn't call Buffalo and Rochester "vacation county"
Well, not in the sense being referred to in this thread, anyways.
Believe it or not, there are over 6 million people upstate, and both Rochester and Buffalo are big enough to have vacation countries of their own. :)
Quote from: webny99 on April 14, 2020, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2020, 09:23:48 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on April 14, 2020, 12:27:20 AM
You can pretty much apply that to Long Islanders and New Yorkers... or you can just use the usual rule of thumb about the definition of "Upstate," i.e.; everything north of The Bronx.
Although I'm pretty sure "vacation country" doesn't apply to Yonkers, Mount Vernon or Bronxville.
I wouldn't call Buffalo and Rochester "vacation county"
Well, not in the sense being referred to in this thread, anyways.
Believe it or not, there are over 6 million people upstate, and both Rochester and Buffalo are big enough to have vacation countries of their own. :)
I don't think there's anywhere that's really unified "vacation country" for the state. For the Capital District, the south boundary of the Adirondack Park is a good marker (basically the same as what Rothman said). For NYC, I would think I-84. For the rest of the state, hard to come up with hard lines, since with the 1000 Islands, Lake Ontario, and the Finger Lakes, it's not really oriented in any one direction.
Quote from: vdeane on April 14, 2020, 09:16:50 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 14, 2020, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2020, 09:23:48 AM
I wouldn't call Buffalo and Rochester "vacation county"
Well, not in the sense being referred to in this thread, anyways.
Believe it or not, there are over 6 million people upstate, and both Rochester and Buffalo are big enough to have vacation countries of their own. :)
I don't think there's anywhere that's really unified "vacation country" for the state. For the Capital District, the south boundary of the Adirondack Park is a good marker (basically the same as what Rothman said). For NYC, I would think I-84. For the rest of the state, hard to come up with hard lines, since with the 1000 Islands, Lake Ontario, and the Finger Lakes, it's not really oriented in any one direction.
Does anything along the Lake Ontario State Parkway and it's formerly proposed extension to the ex-Robert Moses State Parkway qualify as "vacation country" for the people of Buffalo and Rochester? And since you and Rothman mentioned the Adirondack region, I just though I'm mention that I was looking at a GSV of the Adirondack Northway in the Lake George region (including NY 912Q), and it reminded me of the fact that I want to drive the Northway before I die.
Quote from: Rothman on April 14, 2020, 12:08:14 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 13, 2020, 01:58:38 PM
Massachusetts has a pretty clear line: the Cape Cod Canal. However, there is a lot of coastline in the state, so vacation homes can be elsewhere, too.
Don't forget the Berkshires as well, as they get bombarded by New Yorker and other tourists every fall.
Akin to Litchfield County in CT, which aside from also being largely forgotten, are in the foothills of the Berkshires. In addition, they are vacation country, not for any of Connecticut's dwindling number of working stiffs, but rich and famous New Yorkers eager (desperate?) to escape the city. Especially now, I'd bet, of all times.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on April 14, 2020, 11:33:27 PM
Does anything along the Lake Ontario State Parkway and it's formerly proposed extension to the ex-Robert Moses State Parkway qualify as "vacation country" for the people of Buffalo and Rochester?
The blunt answer is no. All of the best Lake Ontario beaches are east of Rochester. Hamlin is the main one to the west that allows swimming, and it generates a decent amount of day trip traffic, but very few true "vacationers". Really the entire area north of the Thruway between Rochester and Buffalo is true hick country, the lake shore notwithstanding. My bet is that Orleans County would rank dead last on a list of NY counties to visit on vacation.
Quote from: vdeane on April 14, 2020, 09:16:50 PM
For the rest of the state, hard to come up with hard lines, since with the 1000 Islands, Lake Ontario, and the Finger Lakes, it's not really oriented in any one direction.
That's true, there's not much clear cut directionality.
From Rochester, the Lake Ontario shoreline (heading east) and I-390 (heading south) would be roughly the boundaries of the directions where vacationers fan out. And from Buffalo, the fanning out mostly occurs between the Lake Erie shoreline (heading southwest) and the Thruway (heading east).
For Syracuse, it's even less clear. You can literally head any direction you want: Mohawk Valley, Adirondacks, 1000 Islands, Lake Ontario, and the Finger Lakes bring it full circle.
"Up north" in Virginia is mostly too urban to be "vacation country".
Virginia's "vacation country" is often to the east, and not always in Virginia. For northern Virginia, it's largely beach towns in Maryland and southern Delaware, and also reaches south to the Virginia Beach area and North Carolina's Outer Banks.
Quote from: oscar on April 15, 2020, 12:19:40 AM
"Up north" in Virginia is mostly too urban to be "vacation country".
Virginia's "vacation country" is often to the east, and not always in Virginia. For northern Virginia, it's largely beach towns in Maryland and southern Delaware, and also reaches south to the Virginia Beach area and North Carolina's Outer Banks.
What about the Appalachian mountains in Virginia?
Here in Nova Scotia.....you say you're "going to the shore" .....and that could be anywhere along the coast surrounding the province. In my small town a lot of people have a cottage and it might only be a 15 > 20 km drive away....but that's where you spend your summer weekends.
Right now and with the nice weather starting soon .....people are anxious to get those cottages open for the season but like just about everyone else.....we've been asked to shelter in place. So hopefully..... we'll get out within the next month or so.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49777950177_0bcafdb311_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iQH1mi)
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 13, 2020, 01:55:51 PM
Spinning this from the COVID thread since it's a fun debate in all of the Lakes states.
In Minnesota I consider MN 210 to be the unofficial dividing line, but others consider traditional stopping points like Little Falls or Hinckley to be the start of "up north" .
1. MN 27 - a more literal definition, cutting the state in half from west to east. In my mind it's a little too far from the northern woods, minus the long jog on MN 65.
2. MN 210 - really the boundary between the woods to the north and farmland to the south. As mentioned this is my choice for the dividing line, possibly flipping onto US 10 where they meet going westward.
3. MN 200 - a good argument can be made for this route given it connects key tourist spots Itasca Stats Park and Leech Lake, definitely deep in the northwoods.
4. US 2 - while it fits some of the same descriptors as MN 200, it feels like you've been up north for a while before you hit this route.
5. MN 1 - only the hardcore up north folks think it's this far. :-D
Wisconsin, I would go with WIS 70. US 8 seems a little too far south.
The trouble I have with your list is that you aren't really hitting a vacation spot the farther west you go in northern Minnesota, generally speaking. Also, as far as my one friend is concerned, his grandpa's cabin was in NE Morrison County, between MN 27 and MN 210, so up north for him was quite far south.
As far as Iowa goes, I'm not sure they have one, although I know the Lake Okoboji area gets tourists. Clear Lake, only 10 miles west from where I am now, gets some Des Moines people.
In WA, I-90 is the dividing line for up north and the rest of the state. And Seattle has lots of great vacation spots nearby, namely Mt. Rainier to the east and Bainbridge Island to the west.
"The north" in Louisiana begins at Alexandria. A rough divider would be LA 8 - LA 28 - Red River - Old River.
In Louisiana (at least south La), the most popular vacationland would be the beach cities extending from Gulf Shores AL to Panama City FL. Biloxi and the MS coast was favored prior to the 1970s, but the AL-FL beaches have white powder sand and clearer water so they became more favored as highway access was improved.
I suspect Holly Beach is the preferred destination for some in SW La. Holly Beach along with Grand Isle are the only true coastal beaches in La.
For fishing/boating recreation, the coastal swamps/lakes/bays and Atchafalaya Basin, along with various state parks around the north and central parts of the state.
The OP's use of "up north" as a synonym for vacation country suggests a certain bias toward either hunting/fishing cabins and lake recreation as the popular getaway destination. And for that, there are a number of people from the Philadelphia area who escape to cabins or resorts in the Poconos, especially for skiing in the winter. But in terms of weekend getaways for this region, my impression is that the number of people heading north and west to lakes and mountains is dwarfed by the number of people heading south and east–"downashore" , as they say in Philadelphia–to New Jersey and Delaware beaches.
Outside of the Philadelphia area, it's generally fair to say that there are plenty of lakes and forests statewide, especially north and west of Blue Mountain, and Pennsylvanians from across the state tend to head in all different directions to their cabin or favorite lake.
Quote from: jemacedo9 on April 14, 2020, 04:05:50 PM
Does York and Carlisle and Chambersburg consider themselves Western PA or Eastern? What about Williamsport? or Lock Haven? Or Lewisburg? State College I believe falls under Western.
Or is there a third line that everything above I-80 is considered Northern PA?
Well–you seem to be answering a different question, which is along the lines of the New York upstate vs. downstate debate.
As a native of Williamsport, I feel completely safe in saying the West Branch Valley is more closely tied with eastern PA than western–in terms of sports team affiliations, media market overlap, cultural traditions, dialect, etc. That's also the case with Lewisburg, Carlisle, Chambersburg, and York. State College is a unique case since it's largely populated by students and faculty from all over the state and beyond.
If there was a third "northern Pennsylvania" , the dividing line wouldn't be I-80 but rather US 6. Many of these towns are so far removed from the rest of PA civilization that they share more in common with New York's southern tier towns–and in many cases, crossing the border to Olean or Elmira provides the closest big box shopping. But it's very different region culturally–many of them are Bills fans; they buy groceries at Tops, are crazy about something called "spiedie sauce" , and have a touch of that Northern Cities Vowel Shift.
Quote from: briantroutman on April 16, 2020, 11:34:49 PM
If there was a third "northern Pennsylvania" , the dividing line wouldn't be I-80 but rather US 6. Many of these towns are so far removed from the rest of PA civilization that they share more in common with New York's southern tier towns–and in many cases, crossing the border to Olean or Elmira provides the closest big box shopping. But it's very different region culturally–many of them are Bills fans; they buy groceries at Tops, are crazy about something called "spiedie sauce" , and have a touch of that Northern Cities Vowel Shift.
Wonderfully well put, and even with the appropriate touch of disgust about it! You got me smiling and nodding my head by the end there. :)
And, this is random, but here's what that Tops reference made me think of (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2470661,-77.0477281,3a,17.2y,264.46h,92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sut0pySNkjKkjcdV6glnHhA!2e0!5s20150901T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1)... such a classic example of the difference between Pennsylvania and New York, linguistically. You'd never see that on a billboard around here.
Quote from: webny99 on April 16, 2020, 11:57:25 PM
And, this is random, but here's what that Tops reference made me think of (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2470661,-77.0477281,3a,17.2y,264.46h,92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sut0pySNkjKkjcdV6glnHhA!2e0!5s20150901T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1)...
So here's a piece of trivia about that billboard and a bit of a roadgeek connection: It's posted above the Pepsi bottler in Williamsport. The bottling plant is now owned by Pepsi, but it was originally the Confair Bottling Company, the enterprise of Z.H. Confair, who was also a state senator and the single person most responsible for pushing the cause of the Keystone Shortway (I-80) in Harrisburg.
Quote from: briantroutman on April 17, 2020, 12:35:20 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 16, 2020, 11:57:25 PM
And, this is random, but here's what that Tops reference made me think of (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2470661,-77.0477281,3a,17.2y,264.46h,92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sut0pySNkjKkjcdV6glnHhA!2e0!5s20150901T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1)...
So here's a piece of trivia about that billboard and a bit of a roadgeek connection: It's posted above the Pepsi bottler in Williamsport. The bottling plant is now owned by Pepsi, but it was originally the Confair Bottling Company, the enterprise of Z.H. Confair, who was also a state senator and the single person most responsible for pushing the cause of the Keystone Shortway (I-80) in Harrisburg.
Interesting, and noteworthy too that I-80 still missed Williamsport itself by a fairly wide margin. It's not hard to envision an alternate routing of I-80 between roughly DuBois and Mt. Pocono that would have hit Lock Haven, Williamsport, and even Wilkes-Barre. All three of those would have been likely generators of additional traffic on I-80, not to mention big improvements over the current control cities!
(I should note that the specific "Pepsi is Tops" ad is no longer there. I remembered it quite distinctly from my trips down that way, and it was a surprisingly easy find, although I did have to go back to 2015 street view.)
In Ontario you do say you're going 'Up North' for the weekend and that's the Muskoka, Huntsville, Algonquin Park area about 2 hrs north of Toronto......and that 2 hr drive on ON400/11 can easily double with the summer Friday evening exodus to 'Cottage Country'. Same returning on Sunday.
But in Ontario....it's really not that far 'Up North'. You would have to go to the shores of Hudson Bay.....another 1250 km (800 miles) further north and only accessible by air or water.
Quote from: ghYHZ on April 18, 2020, 06:46:34 AM
But in Ontario....it's really not that far 'Up North'. You would have to go to the shores of Hudson Bay.....another 1250 km (800 miles) further north and only accessible by air or water.
800 miles north of my place would be just shy of Ruther Glen, Virginia. And it's all road from there, baby!
Personally, I don't what "Up North" is for most people in the northern suburbs of Tampa Bay. I keep guessing it might be anywhere north of Citrus and Sumter Counties, with the exception of Ocala or Dunnellon. Or maybe Ocala is included. Sure, it's a city. But with all the parties I pass by in Downtown Ocala every time I drive through there it wouldn't surprise me if they get visitors from Tampa-St. Pete and Gainesville.
Quote from: Urban Prairie Schooner on April 16, 2020, 09:36:44 PM
I suspect Holly Beach is the preferred destination for some in SW La. Holly Beach along with Grand Isle are the only true coastal beaches in La.
My family took a couple of campers and setup on the beach at Holly Beach, one of the few places with a campground right on the beach. I think that the campground was wiped out by a hurricane since we were there, but it was pretty neat nonetheless. Not a particularly clean beach with a view, but the absolute closest beach to NW Arkansas. It's a little close to Port Arthur/Beaumont TX and St. Charles, LA to be a really nice area, and there was no shortage of oil platforms within sight of the beach.