Back in the early 2000s I used to frequently drive the entirety of AZ 88 on the Apache Trail from US 60 in Apache Junction east to AZ 188 at Roosevelt Dam. The Apache Trail was built as a stage route to haul materials for the Roosevelt Dam project which took place from 1903 to 1911. The Apache Trail was one of Arizona's first Auto Trails and for a good portion of the early 20th Century was the main highway from the Phoenix area east to Globe. The Apache Trail appears on the 1925 Rand McNally Arizona/New Mexico Highway Map co-signed in sections with; the Lee Highway, the Bankhead Highway, the Southern National Highway, the Atlantic Pacific Highway, and the Old Spanish Trail. When the Arizona Sign State Routes were commissioned the Apache Trail was intended to be designated AZ 66 but US Route 60 changing to US Route 66 forced the designation to be changed to AZ 88. AZ 88 today has a large unpaved portion east of Tortilla Flat which remains unpaved and is a good reminder of how major highways used to be in the early 20th Century.
https://www.gribblenation.org/2020/04/2016-fall-mountain-trip-part-27-arizona.html
On one of my previously frequent trips to the Valley of the Sun, I did the Apache Trail from AJ (Apache Junction) to Roosevelt Dam, then back to US 60 and through the Queen Creek Tunnel back down to the east Valley. The one-lane portion of the unpaved road hanging from the side of Fish Creek Canyon was most likely the scariest piece of road I've even been on in my 64 years! But the experience & the scenery were well worth it.
Unfortunately, AZ 88 is closed west of Tortilla Flat. Between the wildfire and flooding of late last year, and the rock slide just west of AZ 188 3 weeks ago, it is completely closed over most of its length. I haven't seen any indications of when it will reopen at either end.
This article from AZcentral pertaining to the closed portion of AZ 88 was shared to a group I admin:
https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/arizona/2023/01/23/why-apache-trail-is-closed/10592001002/?fbclid=IwAR2O-8m2wv2rdXIq8Xh7h9FNoNnwVY_dFtsZMP6rQFanIs1rH3PGyj2pEWc&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on April 19, 2020, 08:48:27 PM
Unfortunately, AZ 88 is closed west of Tortilla Flat. Between the wildfire and flooding of late last year, and the rock slide just west of AZ 188 3 weeks ago, it is completely closed over most of its length. I haven't seen any indications of when it will reopen at either end.
I believe you mean east?
Quote from: 707 on April 07, 2023, 04:40:23 PM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on April 19, 2020, 08:48:27 PM
Unfortunately, AZ 88 is closed west of Tortilla Flat. Between the wildfire and flooding of late last year, and the rock slide just west of AZ 188 3 weeks ago, it is completely closed over most of its length. I haven't seen any indications of when it will reopen at either end.
I believe you mean east?
Yes. Sorry about that.
Work is continuing to get this road closer to being fully reopened. This is only phase one and won't fully open the road yet for all types of traffic but that phase is planned.
QuoteArizona Department of Transportation crews are removing vegetation, grading the roadway and repairing drainage culverts to prepare for a project that will restore limited access to a stretch of State Route 88 (Apache Trail) that has been closed since severe flooding in 2019.
The work is preparing the roadway for a $4 million interim project scheduled to begin this summer that will make the five unpaved miles that remain closed near Fish Creek Hill east of the Phoenix area (mileposts 222-227) accessible to high-clearance four-wheel drive vehicles and utility task vehicles.
Meanwhile, ADOT continues seeking federal funding for far more extensive upgrades, estimated to cost $33.7 million, that would make the highway accessible to other vehicles and more resilient to storms.
- https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/arizona-construction-crews-restoring-access-to-sr-88/64730
I have a feeling that I'll need to drive this right when it reopens so that it doesn't close again before I get the chance. :) One of my few bucket list drives in the lower 48.
Once the low clearance work is done, I'll probably propose a meet for AZ 88.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 15, 2024, 05:30:23 PMOnce the low clearance work is done, I'll probably propose a meet for AZ 88.
I think this sounds amazing. I moved back to Arizona in 2021, so I've only been able to drive the two stranded open sections and can't wait to be able to drive the whole length.
Quote from: kwellada on May 16, 2024, 10:10:42 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 15, 2024, 05:30:23 PMOnce the low clearance work is done, I'll probably propose a meet for AZ 88.
I think this sounds amazing. I moved back to Arizona in 2021, so I've only been able to drive the two stranded open sections and can't wait to be able to drive the whole length.
Seems there is clamor for an Arizona Meet in general. I ran a couple car clubs on AZ 88 when I lived in Phoenix. When the road was fully opened it was fine for all vehicles but it did get a little washboarded.
I wonder why Google Maps doesn't show this five-year-old closure. It's a state highway, for cripes sake. I would have blithely headed up this road on my next AZ trip, had I not happened on this thread.
AZ 88 reopens to high clearance 4WD traffic:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02CHA8fHCTy4zBi1eT9k6ek7XsytNsyZkbCAoCcpvhvtP8CCc8kgededVFeZ1UDrznl&id=100068725377132&mibextid=cr9u03
ADOT didn't really demonstrate a "high clearance need" in their first photo. Using the term 4WD cars is kind of strange also. I'm hoping someone else can get a true assessment if this is actually a primitive road or just hyperbole.
I've always wondered how many inches of clearance is high clearance.
Quote from: Rothman on September 16, 2024, 08:46:24 PMI've always wondered how many inches of clearance is high clearance.
I'm curious also. There are a lot of Forest Service roads by me touted as high clearance that aren't hard to get through in a car. If I still lived in Phoenix I would probably headed out to Tortilla Flat and Fish Creek Hill to test what ADOT's theory on the matter is.
What's frustrating is that Google is no help in solving the mystery. Some sources indicate my modest Nissan Rogue is high clearance, which I find hard to believe. On the other hand, some other sources are nutty, declaring roads like the dirt roads behind the house I grew up in as high clearance, when my family drove around on them in an '81 Chevette.
At least in Colorado, if a sign says high clearance, you either want a Wrangler, Bronco, Xterra, 4Runner, Tacoma, etc. or you want a car you don't mind scraping.
An OHV group I'm part of is confirming the road can accommodate regular clearance cars.
Quote from: Rothman on September 16, 2024, 08:46:24 PMI've always wondered how many inches of clearance is high clearance.
I have a Nissan Juke (don't laugh) with clearance of 7". It's actually adequate for many dirt roads but I also know when to NOPE out of a situation. However, it's a challenge to research dirt roads to find out if it's "Suitable for a Silly Juke"
Apparently I'm working with 5.1 inches ground clearance in my 2019 Impreza. Usually I can squeeze out another inch (or two) if I can approach an obstacle at an angle. For the most part when it comes to finding out the conditions of dirt roads it usually comes down to driving it and finding out for yourself.
Of course, my wife has 2018 Forester with 8.7 inches clearance. I suppose now that my Impreza has been retired from daily driving duty it will be far easier for me to requisition her vehicle for high clearance needs.
My 2020 Nissan Rogue: 8.4"
The Outback I have right now has 8.7". I sold my Wrangler Rubicon with 10.8".
Seems my 2024 Corolla has 5.3 inches of ground clearance. I never thought it would be slightly more than an Impreza.
Seems my 2016 Challenger Scat Pack has a 5.2 inch clearance.
The National Park Service doesn't mess around; they will ticket folks if they take certain trails in insufficiently off-road vehicles (the determining factor appears to be presence of a low range). https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/national-park-service-will-cite-drivers-of-awd-cars-for-driving-on-4wd-only-trails/ar-AA1otL3J
No idea if officials in Arizona are as strict.
They aren't and ADOT isn't really fooling anyone. Fish Creek Hill isn't an actual a high clearance road in present state. ADOT probably should have just gone with a temporary length restriction.
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 19, 2024, 06:50:03 PMThe National Park Service doesn't mess around; they will ticket folks if they take certain trails in insufficiently off-road vehicles (the determining factor appears to be presence of a low range). https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/national-park-service-will-cite-drivers-of-awd-cars-for-driving-on-4wd-only-trails/ar-AA1otL3J
No idea if officials in Arizona are as strict.
Requiring 4WD is not the same as requiring a high-clearance vehicle. NPS does have roads where high clearance is a requirement, but 4WD is not.
I believe I saw some chatter than ADOT doesn't plan on putting a ton of attention into continually grading and clearing that part, so while it may be fair for now, it will eventually get rutted and rougher as rains hit and more traffic hits it and thus wanting to not let people be led to believe they can take their Camry "the back way" just because.
Quote from: Sonic99 on September 20, 2024, 01:19:50 AMI believe I saw some chatter than ADOT doesn't plan on putting a ton of attention into continually grading and clearing that part, so while it may be fair for now, it will eventually get rutted and rougher as rains hit and more traffic hits it and thus wanting to not let people be led to believe they can take their Camry "the back way" just because.
This is basically how half the off road recovery YouTube videos get their origin story.
Quote from: kwellada on September 20, 2024, 02:12:15 PMQuote from: Sonic99 on September 20, 2024, 01:19:50 AMI believe I saw some chatter than ADOT doesn't plan on putting a ton of attention into continually grading and clearing that part, so while it may be fair for now, it will eventually get rutted and rougher as rains hit and more traffic hits it and thus wanting to not let people be led to believe they can take their Camry "the back way" just because.
This is basically how half the off road recovery YouTube videos get their origin story.
Considering how "warmly received" ADOT's lazy response to reopening AZ 88 I don't see slack maintenance being tolerated for very long. A couple years ago ADOT tried to relinquish a lot of low traffic count highways and pretty much was met universally with community outrage everywhere they went.
Heh, now the ADOT social media account is essentially admitting the 4WD/high clearance signage is in place due to anticipated weathering the temporary grade at Fish Creek Hill:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0N2737quBDLggMbYXzbf2EiooKvUXWRXv8h4GZp75md5zZrhGofCLu1JMkCFi5DBbl&id=100068725377132&mibextid=cr9u03
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 20, 2024, 03:59:44 PMHeh, now the ADOT social media account is essentially admitting the 4WD/high clearance signage is in place due to anticipated weathering the temporary grade at Fish Creek Hill:
I watched a couple YouTubers who did the road a few days ago and right now it looks like one of the nicest gravel roads in the state. There were a few sedans on it and they were doing just fine. Naturally, that is not a road I'd ever consider in rainy weather, but I'm thinking I'll have to visit it in a couple weekends.
I understand that fires increase the danger of slides, and they're reluctant to invest in repairs until the vegatation has recovered. But is there some reason that they never bothered to pave this road in the first place? Sounds like a fairly popular road, and it is an actual State Highway.
I finally did the full Apache trail earlier today in a Nissan Juke. What a gorgeous drive. I'm so pleased the state put some money into reopening the roadway. There was a state trooper at the old west gate, apparently there to make sure no one was taking a trailer into the newly reopened section, but clearly they don't care about non 4x4s right now.