On the Maine turnpike, signs at the start and end of I-295 sign staying on the Maine Turnpike as the way to get to Portland/Augusta. NY also does this with the Berkshire Connector, and Kansas signs both I-35 and the Kansas Turnpike as the way to Kansas City. Any other examples?
An example that's no longer standing:
The Ohio Turnpike had signs located between Toledo and Cleveland giving distances to Chicago (westbound) and New York City (eastbound), via the neighboring tollways. Both signs were removed when widening and modernization of the Turnpike began in the late 1990s/early 2000s.
On the Indiana Toll Road in Lake Station, travelers to Chicago are directed to stay on the Toll Road and onward to the Chicago Skyway and 80/94 West is marked for long-distance traffic to Des Moines, even though drivers could easily dip on to 80/94 and then take the Bishop Ford to the Dan Ryan to Chicago, dodging the $5 Skyway toll as well as saving $2.60 on the Indiana Toll Road (if you entered at the Ohio state line) with just 3 minutes additional travel time.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5915787,-87.2279267,3a,75y,287.79h,102.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBytSmn-yohzKB3m1HValmA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
None of these seem particularly egregious to me. 335/70 is a couple minutes faster than 35 between Emporia and KC. 95 from the south 295 split to Augusta is three minutes slower than taking 295. In the financial sense the 80/94 over 90 does make sense.
On the south end of the Tri-State near the Thorton Quarry overpass, ISTHA has a Distance sign for the Indiana Toll Road...20 miles or so away, separated from the (tolled) Tri-State by (free) 80/94
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 29, 2020, 07:34:06 AM
On the south end of the Tri-State near the Thorton Quarry overpass, ISTHA has a Distance sign for the Indiana Toll Road...20 miles or so away, separated from the (tolled) Tri-State by (free) 80/94
Odd that they don't even hammer home the point that drivers wishing to continue on I-80 long term must use that particular junction to do so. I always personally thought that was the reason for the sign.
Don't know about signs, but the way the Oklahoma turnpike interchanges are constructed make the turnpike connections the thru route, and any interstates (I-44, I'm looking at you) are exits. This happens as I-44 westbound approaches both Tulsa and Oklahoma City.
If coming east on the NY Thruway, signs for Boston lead drivers south on I-87 to the Berkshire Connector (unsigned 912M)
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 29, 2020, 06:20:55 AM
None of these seem particularly egregious to me. 335/70 is a couple minutes faster than 35 between Emporia and KC.
As someone living in Wichita, I can tell you that the route one takes to KC is usually determined by which side of town he's going to. KTA to the Speedway or the airport, I-35 to most anywhere else.
If I plan to be driving through KC around rush hour as part of a long-distance trip–this often happens on the way from Minnesota back to Wichita–I sometimes use KTA after bypassing the city on the west side, just because it's less prone to rush-hour traffic problems than either I-35 through downtown, I-635, or the eastern I-435.
Quote from: Ben114 on April 29, 2020, 11:08:31 AM
If coming east on the NY Thruway, signs for Boston lead drivers south on I-87 to the Berkshire Connector (unsigned 912M)
And conversely, signage going west for Buffalo when you get to B1.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on April 29, 2020, 08:22:32 PM
Quote from: Ben114 on April 29, 2020, 11:08:31 AM
If coming east on the NY Thruway, signs for Boston lead drivers south on I-87 to the Berkshire Connector (unsigned 912M)
And conversely, signage going west for Buffalo when you get to B1.
Yep, as soon as I opened this thread the first thing I looked for was the obligatory mention of the Thruway near Albany.
It is the faster, more straightforward routing, so I have no issues with it being posted that way. I doubt there's many long-distance travelers that want to mess around with free 90 through Albany. I would far rather change the
route shields (by making free 90 a 3di and re-routing 90 along Berkshire Connector) than the control cities.
traffic signs on the M6 that announce "M6 TOLL CLEAR", even when the M6 is also clear
Quote from: interstate73 on April 29, 2020, 04:09:57 AM
On the Indiana Toll Road in Lake Station, travelers to Chicago are directed to stay on the Toll Road and onward to the Chicago Skyway and 80/94 West is marked for long-distance traffic to Des Moines, even though drivers could easily dip on to 80/94 and then take the Bishop Ford to the Dan Ryan to Chicago, dodging the $5 Skyway toll as well as saving $2.60 on the Indiana Toll Road (if you entered at the Ohio state line) with just 3 minutes additional travel time.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5915787,-87.2279267,3a,75y,287.79h,102.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBytSmn-yohzKB3m1HValmA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Now if they did build the planed high speed ramps for that how would have they they singed it?
Any one have old web link?
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on April 29, 2020, 09:42:05 PMNow if they did build the planed high speed ramps for that how would have they they singed it?
Any one have old web link?
There were no links to the proposed sign designs, but if they did go with the routing plans in those old blueprints, the signage would not have changed.
The Toll Road signage at the Lake Station interchange serves two purposes: the first is to let Chicago drivers know to stay on the Toll Road to get there quickly (for a price). The second is to emphasize focus on I-80; those wanting to continue on I-80 must exit there and realize that I-80 doesn't go to Chicago. With Des Moines being the next major metro city along I-80, it got the nod.
Design changes to the ramp system weren't going to change the control cities. They would've changed the distribution points, but that's it.
Not necessarily something that "tries to make you (i.e. a car driver) stay on the toll road," but the two tolled Delaware/Maryland crossings are examples of roads that restrict trucks on at least one of the obvious shunpike routes.
US-301's shunpike of MD-299/MD-282/DE-299 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3818155,-75.8027015,3a,32.8y,70.51h,83.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKt7GHnyPeviEkpXgkl1uiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) disallows trucks. Not sure why the sign here only mentions "MD-299 South" as the restricted route, when MD-299 North clearly has a no trucks sign posted for traffic entering it (Google's image doesn't have the resolution to make it readable).
I-95's shunpike of DE-896/DE-4/DE-279/MD-279 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6567189,-75.7514383,3a,15y,33.39h,90.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPNTH4KgyWWxYNR8yj0skWQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) also disallows trucks. I don't know of any signs on I-95 that post this restriction, but there are signs on DE-279 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6645926,-75.7768251,3a,34.8y,64.34h,88.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sttcg5EsZjEXJi_a6NRGjCg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and DE-896 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6668276,-75.7745615,3a,31.3y,194.46h,84.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8C-XDrnR-CEpmg_j-azJlg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) pointing it out.
EDIT: Just checked and yeah, DelDOT mentions the DE-4 truck restriction from I-95 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6482429,-75.7356845,3a,30.1y,276.34h,89.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snADBIdNZTTSQxGFhadN-dA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).
Ironically, DE-1 doesn't really seem to mind if you avoid its tolls. The main toll that is interesting here is the one at the Roth Bridge (built 1995), where DelDOT actually made the bridge free to prevent trucks from using the old St. Georges Bridge (built 1942). However, the Dover toll plaza is a little different. Approaching Dover, traffic using US-13 to Salisbury and Norfolk (really Camden DE and anywhere due south of it), is encouraged to take the Puncheon Run Connector (Exit 97) instead of the US-13 North Dover exit (Exit 104) (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2221799,-75.5663482,3a,16.3y,153.23h,91.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCPiuriU0u8Gu1WW5E7Awxw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). This is particularly interesting because the toll at Exit 104 is 50 cents for cars every day, but the toll at Exit 97 is set by the Dover Toll Plaza (approximately halfway between Exits 104 and 97), which is $1 for cars on weekdays and $3 for cars on weekends.
Quote from: webny99 on April 29, 2020, 09:14:20 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on April 29, 2020, 08:22:32 PM
Quote from: Ben114 on April 29, 2020, 11:08:31 AM
If coming east on the NY Thruway, signs for Boston lead drivers south on I-87 to the Berkshire Connector (unsigned 912M)
And conversely, signage going west for Buffalo when you get to B1.
Yep, as soon as I opened this thread the first thing I looked for was the obligatory mention of the Thruway near Albany.
It is the faster, more straightforward routing, so I have no issues with it being posted that way. I doubt there's many long-distance travelers that want to mess around with free 90 through Albany. I would far rather change the route shields (by making free 90 a 3di and re-routing 90 along Berkshire Connector) than the control cities.
Seeing that the Thruway has its own mileage counter (similar to what the Illinois Tollway system had before the 2010s), this would be entirely feasible. I found the current routing (getting off I-90 to return to I-90 in about half an hour to 45 minutes) very confusing until I read the map.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 29, 2020, 11:07:29 AM
Don't know about signs, but the way the Oklahoma turnpike interchanges are constructed make the turnpike connections the thru route, and any interstates (I-44, I'm looking at you) are exits. This happens as I-44 westbound approaches both Tulsa and Oklahoma City.
Interestingly, it's the other way around on eastbound I-44 entering Tulsa. EB I-44 follows the mainline, and the Creek Turnpike is the exit. But still, the Creek Turnpike is given the longer-distance control city (Joplin), while I-44 is signed for "Tulsa Downtown." But this is typical when control cities are used on beltways, whether they're tolled or not. I-44 is certainly a straighter path. I'm honestly not sure how often traffic on I-44 in Tulsa results in the Creek Turnpike being the faster route.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6y7L9TCu4wGoqDa3A
Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on May 30, 2020, 11:17:12 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 29, 2020, 09:14:20 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on April 29, 2020, 08:22:32 PM
Quote from: Ben114 on April 29, 2020, 11:08:31 AM
If coming east on the NY Thruway, signs for Boston lead drivers south on I-87 to the Berkshire Connector (unsigned 912M)
And conversely, signage going west for Buffalo when you get to B1.
Yep, as soon as I opened this thread the first thing I looked for was the obligatory mention of the Thruway near Albany.
It is the faster, more straightforward routing, so I have no issues with it being posted that way. I doubt there's many long-distance travelers that want to mess around with free 90 through Albany. I would far rather change the route shields (by making free 90 a 3di and re-routing 90 along Berkshire Connector) than the control cities.
Seeing that the Thruway has its own mileage counter (similar to what the Illinois Tollway system had before the 2010s), this would be entirely feasible. I found the current routing (getting off I-90 to return to I-90 in about half an hour to 45 minutes) very confusing until I read the map.
NYSTA actually did consider doing just that at one point (albeit with current free I-90 being redesignated as an extended I-88 rather than as a 3DI): https://web.archive.org/web/20110719082831/http://www.cdtcmpo.org/linkage/hudson/final.pdf
Quote from: stridentweasel on May 30, 2020, 11:19:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 29, 2020, 11:07:29 AM
Don't know about signs, but the way the Oklahoma turnpike interchanges are constructed make the turnpike connections the thru route, and any interstates (I-44, I'm looking at you) are exits. This happens as I-44 westbound approaches both Tulsa and Oklahoma City.
Interestingly, it's the other way around on eastbound I-44 entering Tulsa. EB I-44 follows the mainline, and the Creek Turnpike is the exit. But still, the Creek Turnpike is given the longer-distance control city (Joplin), while I-44 is signed for "Tulsa Downtown." But this is typical when control cities are used on beltways, whether they're tolled or not. I-44 is certainly a straighter path. I'm honestly not sure how often traffic on I-44 in Tulsa results in the Creek Turnpike being the faster route.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6y7L9TCu4wGoqDa3A
Sounds like there's a compound reason for specifying a long-distance control city or point on a toll bypass: (a) to divert as much through/commercial traffic as possible to the bypass and away from downtown arterial freeways, and (b) get some revenue in the process. Since the particular situation at hand here (Creek Tpk./OK 364) involves a bypass facility that was built quite a bit later than I-44 over Skelly Drive (itself the "original" city bypass), it may be likely that older commercial drivers who have been accustomed to the through I-44 route will simply stay on that route (and effectively shunpike the Creek) while newer drivers (not necessarily using GPS, which may point to the shorter original alignment) may simply read more into the Joplin and OKC controls and elect to utilize the bypass. I'm going to assume that all three toll facilities in question (Turner, Creek, W. Rogers) are participating in a common OTR system -- which may well make the bypass decision considerably easier.
Here's an example of the exact opposite situation: MDOT SHA encouraging drivers to stay in Maryland a while longer and NOT take the Pennsylvania Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6443735,-78.0369537,3a,43.2y,317.42h,88.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stnk3CaDUtmciFjCX-_ANrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Quote from: jmacswimmer on June 02, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
Here's an example of the exact opposite situation: MDOT SHA encouraging drivers to stay in Maryland a while longer and NOT take the Pennsylvania Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6443735,-78.0369537,3a,43.2y,317.42h,88.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stnk3CaDUtmciFjCX-_ANrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Maryland wants to keep drivers in their state for longer.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 02, 2020, 10:38:32 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on June 02, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
Here's an example of the exact opposite situation: MDOT SHA encouraging drivers to stay in Maryland a while longer and NOT take the Pennsylvania Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6443735,-78.0369537,3a,43.2y,317.42h,88.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stnk3CaDUtmciFjCX-_ANrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Maryland wants to keep drivers in their state for longer.
Or their level of disdain for the Breezewood situation matches much of the attitude expressed on these pages! :-P
Quote from: jmacswimmer on June 02, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
Here's an example of the exact opposite situation: MDOT SHA encouraging drivers to stay in Maryland a while longer and NOT take the Pennsylvania Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6443735,-78.0369537,3a,43.2y,317.42h,88.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stnk3CaDUtmciFjCX-_ANrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Same travel time and only 10 miles longer (I-68 to I-79)
I'd certainly use it vs. I-70 heading west. Avoids the long 55 mph stretch, Breezewood, and the Turnpike tolls.
Now, for traffic going onto the Ohio Turnpike and I-80, probably best to stick with the PA Turnpike.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 02, 2020, 01:26:07 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on June 02, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
Here's an example of the exact opposite situation: MDOT SHA encouraging drivers to stay in Maryland a while longer and NOT take the Pennsylvania Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6443735,-78.0369537,3a,43.2y,317.42h,88.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stnk3CaDUtmciFjCX-_ANrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Same travel time and only 10 miles longer (I-68 to I-79)
I'd certainly use it vs. I-70 heading west. Avoids the long 55 mph stretch, Breezewood, and the Turnpike tolls.
Now, for traffic going onto the Ohio Turnpike and I-80, probably best to stick with the PA Turnpike.
Those looking to get to Columbus, Wheeling, or Pittsburgh would benefit greatly from using I-68 as alternate to the Penna Pike.
Even for someone like myself looking to drive home from Baltimore/D.C., I'd be willing to take the extra 10 miles, then use I-79 and I-376 to connect to the Pennsylvania Turnpike to get back to NW Indiana. Still takes Breezewood out of play.
Approaching Harrisburg on the PA Turnpike westbound, there are signs before exits 247 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2134132,-76.7703677,3a,43.3y,305.92h,89.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szg8-a66ugcKDNSe02JSn-w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en) & 242 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2023734,-76.844701,3a,54.5y,317.51h,87.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9pfZG54taYfHglL1BcWNMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) directing motorists bound for I-81 south to continue to exit 226. (As opposed to taking either of these exits and making the connection to 81 via PA 581, which does have the benefit of being all-freeway unlike Carlisle.)
Quote from: jmacswimmer on June 02, 2020, 05:34:01 PM
Approaching Harrisburg on the PA Turnpike westbound, there are signs before exits 247 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2134132,-76.7703677,3a,43.3y,305.92h,89.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szg8-a66ugcKDNSe02JSn-w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en) & 242 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2023734,-76.844701,3a,54.5y,317.51h,87.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9pfZG54taYfHglL1BcWNMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) directing motorists bound for I-81 south to continue to exit 226. (As opposed to taking either of these exits and making the connection to 81 via PA 581, which does have the benefit of being all-freeway unlike Carlisle.)
Going on PA 581 would take longer and go out of the way.
Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on June 02, 2020, 03:21:56 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 02, 2020, 01:26:07 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on June 02, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
Here's an example of the exact opposite situation: MDOT SHA encouraging drivers to stay in Maryland a while longer and NOT take the Pennsylvania Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6443735,-78.0369537,3a,43.2y,317.42h,88.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stnk3CaDUtmciFjCX-_ANrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Same travel time and only 10 miles longer (I-68 to I-79)
I'd certainly use it vs. I-70 heading west. Avoids the long 55 mph stretch, Breezewood, and the Turnpike tolls.
Now, for traffic going onto the Ohio Turnpike and I-80, probably best to stick with the PA Turnpike.
Those looking to get to Columbus, Wheeling, or Pittsburgh would benefit greatly from using I-68 as alternate to the Penna Pike.
Even for someone like myself looking to drive home from Baltimore/D.C., I'd be willing to take the extra 10 miles, then use I-79 and I-376 to connect to the Pennsylvania Turnpike to get back to NW Indiana. Still takes Breezewood out of play.
You're driven that way before, right? Cumberland, Maryland is practically Breezewood's counterpart. There are no traffic signals, and it's fully divided, but it's 40-MPH (https://goo.gl/maps/1fK6BvL4eKNYtoi58 , hey, that's 5 MPH faster than the 35-MPH speed limit through the roughly third of a mile through Breezewood) and configured somewhat like an RIRO arterial (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6500645,-78.7554621,121m/data=!3m1!1e3 , https://www.google.com/maps/@39.648631,-78.7680801,242m/data=!3m1!1e3) that technically qualifies as a freeway.
And then there are the mountains. No sweat if you're just driving a car. When you're a big-rig carrying a 40,000-pound load, you'll
wish you could've taken the PA Turnpike (unless you just really love mountain climbing), but if you're hauling bulk HazMat, you
have to take I-68 instead.
^
The lack of tolls might also be an incentive of taking I-68 vs. I-70 even with climbing. Truck tolls can get quite high.