AARoads Forum

Which turnpike system is the best one?

Voted PA because that's the only one of those turnpike systems I've been on, unfortunately.

I like the New Hampshire one because its the cheapest lol

I added Connecticut because they removed their tolls and confirmed (finally) that they're not coming back.

Quote from: Alps on May 13, 2020, 05:34:06 PM
I added Connecticut because they removed their tolls and confirmed (finally) that they're not coming back.

Does the turnpike really still exist in any way or is it just like any old Connecticut interstate now?

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 13, 2020, 05:40:00 PM

Quote from: Alps on May 13, 2020, 05:34:06 PM
I added Connecticut because they removed their tolls and confirmed (finally) that they're not coming back.

Does the turnpike really still exist in any way or is it just like any old Connecticut interstate now?

It's still referenced as the "Gov John Davis Lodge Turnpike" with signs at each end and in the middle.  It still has its service plazas.  And it still has its narrow width median, vs the wide variable median of typical rural interstate construction.  And heck, even NY still has several signs calling it the "Conn Tpke". 

I don't believe it ever had its own "authority", just being part of then-CT Highway Dept/now-ConnDOT. 

You forgot Delaware even though most people, if they like it, would be that it's easy to avoid the toll.

I do like the Everett Turnpike.

Quote from: ozarkman417 on May 13, 2020, 04:40:32 PM
Voted PA because that's the only one of those turnpike systems I've been on, unfortunately.

Yeah, I think that would be the only reason to vote for PA, since it's at the bottom of the list IMO.  :-D
The PA Turnpike is a road with an important place in road history, no doubt, but it's unnervingly narrow and just generally sub-par design to: the Thruway, which gets my vote.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 13, 2020, 07:39:59 PM
You forgot Delaware even though most people, if they like it, would be that it's easy to avoid the toll.

Maryland?

12 lanes on wide open, rural New Jersey Turnpike between I-95 and Newark with very little congestion and the capability to handle well over 100,000 AADT smoothly even during peak holidays.

The only pet-peeve is the 65 mph speed limit. Not that anybody actually obeys it. Also the remaining 4 lane segment south of Exit 4 that will be finally expanded to 6 lanes within the next decade.

I choose Connecticut since it has no tolls.

NJ.

If you expanded this beyond the Northeast, KY would be a contender in my book.

Ohio Turnpike between Cleveland and Toledo is also a contender if you're going outside the Northeast. 6 lanes across the rural plains of northern Ohio, capable of handling traffic volumes for the most part, easy to pass slower trucks, etc.

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 15, 2020, 12:45:39 AM
12 lanes on wide open, rural New Jersey Turnpike between I-95 and Newark with very little congestion and the capability to handle well over 100,000 AADT smoothly even during peak holidays.

The only pet-peeve is the 65 mph speed limit. Not that anybody actually obeys it. Also the remaining 4 lane segment south of Exit 4 that will be finally expanded to 6 lanes within the next decade.

I try not to complain about the speed limit in NJ given the enforcement. I'd rather have 65 enforced at 80-85 than 70 enforced at 75.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 15, 2020, 12:47:09 AM
I choose Connecticut since it has no tolls.

Me too, even though I've never been on it.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 13, 2020, 04:33:49 PM
Which turnpike system is the best one?

I'm with Rothman on this, one, you should have made this a nationwide question (think IL, TX etc.).  Why you did not, idk.

I voted NJTP because I've been on it quite a few times, and because of its celebrity.

ixnay

Quote from: ixnay on May 15, 2020, 09:05:27 AM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 13, 2020, 04:33:49 PM
Which turnpike system is the best one?

I'm with Rothman on this, one, you should have made this a nationwide question (think IL, TX etc.).  Why you did not, idk.

I voted NJTP because I've been on it quite a few times, and because of its celebrity.

ixnay

Many toll roads outside the Northeast, like the ones in TX and CA, are short-distance suburban connectors. They're nothing like the New Jersey Turnpike or any other long-distance through route.

There also would have been too many options to pick from.

I vote the NY Thruway because of how wide the medians are in a lot of places.  The tolls are also a relative bargain compared to PA and NJ.

I voted for New Jersey because it's the best-quality road in my opinion (notwithstanding the narrow section south of Exit 4) and because it's one where if you've travelled it often over the years you can see the toll money being put back into road improvements that have made a real difference.

Of the ones in the poll, I think I've had the fewest trips on the Connecticut Turnpike, and I've only driven on it myself once (as opposed to being a passenger when I was a kid), but I have no real desire to drive on the portion between the New York State line and New Haven again if I can avoid doing so. I would like to clinch I-395 sometime, though. That was actually why I was on it the one time I drove on there myself–we were on our way north to Portland to catch the ferry to Nova Scotia and I had planned to take I-95 across to I-395, then use I-290 to connect to I-495, but the traffic on I-95 was so miserable I bailed at the Milford Connector and took the Wilbur Cross Parkway to I-91 to Hartford instead. We liked the scenic respite so much that we used the Wilbur Cross and the Merritt on the way home as well. The Connecticut Turnpike, at least the part southwest of New Haven, feels much more like a local commuter road than a long-distance "turnpike" in the sense of the Thruway or Florida's Turnpike or the Pennsylvania Turnpike. (I haven't been on the part of that road east of New Haven since August 1985, so I have no valid comment to make about that stretch.)

Quote from: Alps on May 15, 2020, 01:20:33 AM
I try not to complain about the speed limit in NJ given the enforcement. I'd rather have 65 enforced at 80-85 than 70 enforced at 75.

Good point.  Sometimes I have to remind myself that we have it relatively good in NJ in that regard....and no speed or red light cameras.

Quote from: 1 on May 15, 2020, 09:24:45 AM
Many toll roads outside the Northeast, like the ones in TX and CA, are short-distance suburban connectors. They're nothing like the New Jersey Turnpike or any other long-distance through route.

Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Toll Road, Kansas Turnpike, Florida's Turnpike, Kentucky Turnpike, Kentucky's Parkway system, Oklahoma's Turnpike system etc.

All toll roads that serve long distance traffic.

Even the 90 mile TX-130 toll road around Austin is similar to the NJTP in the sense it provides a long-distance freeway for I-35 thru traffic that avoids Austin entirely.

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 15, 2020, 11:06:39 AM

Quote from: 1 on May 15, 2020, 09:24:45 AM
Many toll roads outside the Northeast, like the ones in TX and CA, are short-distance suburban connectors. They're nothing like the New Jersey Turnpike or any other long-distance through route.

Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Toll Road, Kansas Turnpike, Florida's Turnpike, Kentucky Turnpike, Kentucky's Parkway system, Oklahoma's Turnpike system etc.

All toll roads that serve long distance traffic.

Even the 90 mile TX-130 toll road around Austin is similar to the NJTP in the sense it provides a long-distance freeway for I-35 thru traffic that avoids Austin entirely.

Not necessarily disagreeing with your overall point, but I suppose it's fair to consider that while the 90-mile length of TX-130 is comparable to the Jersey Turnpike's 118-mile mainline in terms of raw distance, in terms of a "turnpike" being a major thru route serving a significant part of a state there's no real comparison between the two because New Jersey is such a small state, whereas in Texas 90 miles is a trivial distance in the overall scheme of things. (If instead TX-130 connected Dallas to Houston or Dallas to Austin or something like that, I'd probably view that as more "functionally analogous" to the turnpikes in the Northeast or to most of the other ones you cited.)

Easily NJ, because who can compete with the clever setup of dual carriageways per direction?

Quote from: 1995hoo on May 15, 2020, 10:29:40 AM
I voted for New Jersey because it's the best-quality road in my opinion (notwithstanding the narrow section south of Exit 4) and because it's one where if you've travelled it often over the years you can see the toll money being put back into road improvements that have made a real difference.

Unfortunately, I think that road quality has gone down a bit, especially in regards to pavement.  The NJTA used to be very quick to repave sections of roadway where there was even the slightest hint of rutting.  Over the past many years though, ruts are more common and pavement seam quality has gone down.  This has been very noticeable between Exit 4 and 6, and in some very busy older parts of the Turnpike (say, north of Exit 14).

Quote from: MASTERNC on May 15, 2020, 09:55:41 AM
I vote the NY Thruway because of how wide the medians are in a lot of places.  The tolls are also a relative bargain compared to PA and NJ.

Yep. While PA always wins the prize for the most expensive Turnpike in total, it has a lot to do with its length.  When you compare it on a per-mile basis, the NJ Turnpike isn't that far off. 

I'm torn between a couple different ones:

-Ohio Turnpike for the service plazas (not northeast, but still)
-PA Turnpike for the history (speed limit 70 is a plus too)
-NJ Turnpike for the dual-carriageway design (they also seem to have the fastest EZPass transaction turnaround time, FWIW)
-Mass Pike for being the first ones to go entirely all-electronic (which happened while I was nearby attending college in Worcester)

Ultimately, I think my vote will go to PA (ever-inflating tolls notwithstanding).

Also, as 1995hoo noted I too make a conscious effort to avoid the Conn Tpke when heading to New England, and typically take the Merritt/Wilbur Cross Parkways.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 15, 2020, 12:32:39 PM
Yep. While PA always wins the prize for the most expensive Turnpike in total, it has a lot to do with its length.  When you compare it on a per-mile basis, the NJ Turnpike isn't that far off. 

The excessive tolls on the Penn Pike are directly related to Act 44 and Act 89, mandating that customers of the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission be required to pay billions of subsidy dollars to Pennsylvania's transit agencies (especially SEPTA and the Port Authority of Allegheny County) - none of the transit agencies have anything to do with the markets served by the PTC's roads.

CT may be my native and present home state, but I'll always play favorites to I-95/Maine Turnpike. I once lived west of Exit 19 (then Exit 2) in Wells and later in Old Orchard Beach, about 2 miles down I-195 East to ME Route 5. (Then Exit 5 and now Exit 36.)

I can't pick a favorite.  I am too a fan of the Maine Turnpike, perhaps because it hasn't lost its turnpike identity.  The Maine Turnpike shield is proudly posted on all I-95 reassurance shields and on guide signs, while other turnpikes no longer post shields as often.  And since they widened it up to the Portland area, it is a nice road to drive.  I do miss the unique signs the road used to have in its median, such as "Are your tires safe?".  There also used to be an oversized shield posted with a traffic info phone #.

The New Jersey Turnpike is unique with its dual-dual setup and the eastern and western spurs.  Its signage was also very unique.

But the Connecticut Turnpike will always hold a ranking near the top for me.  I remember the last vestiges of its original signage which held on until 1992/1993.  I have vague recollections of the toll booths.  I was present for the 1993 opening of the Baldwin Bridge.  And, of course, have sat in traffic many times on that road. They also have really nice modern service plazas as well.

I give honorable mention to the PA Pike, having been born and raised in the Commonwealth.

And yes,  I like the  ME Tpk. reassurance shield touch, having seen  them in person a couple of times.

I might pick the Maine Turnpike as my #2 choice. They have a built-in advantage of almost all visitors entering/leaving the state on their turnpike, and it is a super nice road, especially the six-lane section between the NH line and Portland.

Let's not forget the badly-needed widening it got in the 2000s. The lane drop used to be in York, heading towards the Ogunquit town line.

Quote from: webny99 on May 17, 2020, 12:00:47 PM
I might pick the Maine Turnpike as my #2 choice. They have a built-in advantage of almost all visitors entering/leaving the state on their turnpike, and it is a super nice road, especially the six-lane section between the NH line and Portland.

It certainly was a nice drive the last time I was one it... two minuses, though:
1. They do the same thing MA does and post absurdly low regulatory speed limits (not warning) on many exit ramps.
2. They have a particularly perverse form of transponder discrimination where people with an out of state transponder don't get to use the virtual ticket system they set up for Maine E-ZPass holders.

NJ is the best since the 6-9 project finished, very smooth.

MA has great rest stops and scenery but not as great shoulders.

PA lacks a median.

CT is the worst, not high speed.

My vote was for Connecticut. I95 is really now the Turnpike, but I had the Merritt and Wilbur Cross more in mind.

For me it was a coin-flip between PA and NJ but PA's 70 MPH speed limit gave it the slight nod.

Delaware and Maryland are missing from the poll (I think for this exercise they should be considered northeastern states). We all know DE's cost per mile is obnoxious and easily shunpiked but the road is a very wide, high quality freeway. MD's Turnpike is equally of good quality and generally wide. Now that they've finally finished modernizing the southern end (after 20+ years), I enjoy driving that stretch of road.

My vote has go to to MA because of the all-electronic tolling.

(Note: Have not been on NJ or PA.)

Maryland narrowly over NJ.  I do like the new service plazas and I've never had an issue with that section of 95.  Maryland generally takes care of their roads.  NJ does great with the dual configuration, but I don't always care for the service plazas.

I love my home PA turnpike and all but the cost and some design issues prohibit me from voting for it.

If I'm allowed to go outside the NE, it's Ohio no question.  3 lanes each way Toledo to Youngstown, 70, and the most beautiful and clean service plazas.  Tolls look cheap compared to PA!

Quote from: sbeaver44 on May 25, 2020, 07:43:08 PM
Maryland narrowly over NJ.  I do like the new service plazas and I've never had an issue with that section of 95.  Maryland generally takes care of their roads.  NJ does great with the dual configuration, but I don't always care for the service plazas.

I love my home PA turnpike and all but the cost and some design issues prohibit me from voting for it.

If I'm allowed to go outside the NE, it's Ohio no question.  3 lanes each way Toledo to Youngstown, 70, and the most beautiful and clean service plazas.  Tolls look cheap compared to PA!

Maryland Turnpike...?????????????

Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 27, 2020, 02:56:43 PM

Quote from: sbeaver44 on May 25, 2020, 07:43:08 PM
Maryland narrowly over NJ.  I do like the new service plazas and I've never had an issue with that section of 95.  Maryland generally takes care of their roads.  NJ does great with the dual configuration, but I don't always care for the service plazas.

I love my home PA turnpike and all but the cost and some design issues prohibit me from voting for it.

If I'm allowed to go outside the NE, it's Ohio no question.  3 lanes each way Toledo to Youngstown, 70, and the most beautiful and clean service plazas.  Tolls look cheap compared to PA!

Maryland Turnpike...?????????????

Northeastern Expressway/John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway, aka the ~50-mile stretch of I-95 from Baltimore to Delaware.  To be fair, it can seem more like a freeway with a toll bridge as opposed to a turnpike (there used to be ramp tolls, I believe), but the 2 service plazas are still a turnpike feature. 

Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 27, 2020, 03:06:33 PM

Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 27, 2020, 02:56:43 PM

Quote from: sbeaver44 on May 25, 2020, 07:43:08 PM
Maryland narrowly over NJ.  I do like the new service plazas and I've never had an issue with that section of 95.  Maryland generally takes care of their roads.  NJ does great with the dual configuration, but I don't always care for the service plazas.

I love my home PA turnpike and all but the cost and some design issues prohibit me from voting for it.

If I'm allowed to go outside the NE, it's Ohio no question.  3 lanes each way Toledo to Youngstown, 70, and the most beautiful and clean service plazas.  Tolls look cheap compared to PA!

Maryland Turnpike...?????????????

Northeastern Expressway/John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway, aka the ~50-mile stretch of I-95 from Baltimore to Delaware.  To be fair, it can seem more like a freeway with a toll bridge as opposed to a turnpike (there used to be ramp tolls, I believe), but the 2 service plazas are still a turnpike feature.

Non toll roads can have service plazas, like MA 3 and MA 24.

Favorite is NJT for the central part; new bridges, 3-3-3-3 lane configuration (separation from trucks!), interesting exit signage, and more.

Least favorite is Penna Turnpike because no one should have to shell out $50 for a drive between Philly and Pittsburgh on a narrow four-lane road with very few exits and absolutely arcane interchanges (Breezewood, anyone?). There are a few redeeming qualities (revolutionary for its time, ample climbing lanes when needed, not-too-ancient bridges) but among the northeast I believe it to be the worst.

Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 27, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
To be fair, it can seem more like a freeway with a toll bridge as opposed to a turnpike (there used to be ramp tolls, I believe), but the 2 service plazas are still a turnpike feature.

That $8 toll bridge going northbound is what hits. Granted, while it's only for the bridge, it "technically" covers the entire 60+ mile Turnpike.

Does Maryland count? It's not a turnpike, and it's arguably not in the Northeast.

Maryland's I-95 (mostly untolled) has better service plazas than the Penna Turnpike. Maryland and Chesapeake Houses are great (I've been through).

Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 27, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
To be fair, it can seem more like a freeway with a toll bridge as opposed to a turnpike (there used to be ramp tolls, I believe), but the 2 service plazas are still a turnpike feature. 

1. All of it is maintained by the Maryland Transportation Authority. MDTA is an "unbudgeted agency," which means it does not normally get tax dollars from the state's general fund or the transportation trust fund.

2. There were ramp tolls at all of the interchanges north of (but not including) MD-43, present-day Exit 67 at White Marsh to south of (but not including) MD-279 Exit 109 at Elkton.  The JFK Highway ramp tolls were never staffed, were exact change/coin drop only. 

Only traffic that did not pass through the main toll barrier (then two-way) at U.S. 222 (now MD-222) Exit 93 at  Perryville had to pay a ramp toll.

The ramp tolls went away when the construction bonds to build the Northeast Expressway (JFK Highway now) were paid-off in the early 1980's.   The Delaware Turnpike also had ramp tolls, but they were removed in the 1970's.

Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 27, 2020, 06:46:05 PM
Does Maryland count? It's not a turnpike, and it's arguably not in the Northeast.

Maryland is certainly in the northeast. I consider it the northeast up to the Potomac River. As for I-95, I think the only toll is the Susquehanna River Bridge, heading north.

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on May 29, 2020, 10:58:46 PM

Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 27, 2020, 06:46:05 PM
Does Maryland count? It's not a turnpike, and it's arguably not in the Northeast.

Maryland is certainly in the northeast. I consider it the northeast up to the Potomac River. As for I-95, I think the only toll is the Susquehanna River Bridge, heading north.

No.  No, it is not.  It is even below the Mason-Dixon Line.  It definitely has a more southern feel.

It's in the Mid-Atlantic, along with PA.

Northeast is NY and New England.

Quote from: Rothman on May 31, 2020, 12:14:18 PM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on May 29, 2020, 10:58:46 PM

Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 27, 2020, 06:46:05 PM
Does Maryland count? It's not a turnpike, and it's arguably not in the Northeast.

Maryland is certainly in the northeast. I consider it the northeast up to the Potomac River. As for I-95, I think the only toll is the Susquehanna River Bridge, heading north.

No.  No, it is not.  It is even below the Mason-Dixon Line.  It definitely has a more southern feel.

It's in the Mid-Atlantic, along with PA.

Northeast is NY and New England.

I consider Maryland northeast.

Quote from: Rothman on May 31, 2020, 12:14:18 PM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on May 29, 2020, 10:58:46 PM

Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 27, 2020, 06:46:05 PM
Does Maryland count? It's not a turnpike, and it's arguably not in the Northeast.

Maryland is certainly in the northeast. I consider it the northeast up to the Potomac River. As for I-95, I think the only toll is the Susquehanna River Bridge, heading north.

No.  No, it is not.  It is even below the Mason-Dixon Line.  It definitely has a more southern feel.

It's in the Mid-Atlantic, along with PA.

Northeast is NY and New England.

Northern NJ is Northeast, southern NJ is Mid-Atlantic. For that matter, western NY and western PA are more "Old Northwest" or whatever term you would use for Ohio. Regional lines don't follow state boundaries.

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 27, 2020, 06:23:31 PM

Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 27, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
To be fair, it can seem more like a freeway with a toll bridge as opposed to a turnpike (there used to be ramp tolls, I believe), but the 2 service plazas are still a turnpike feature.

That $8 toll bridge going northbound is what hits. Granted, while it's only for the bridge, it "technically" covers the entire 60+ mile Turnpike.

Still cheaper than most of the bridges of New York City.

Quote from: Alps on May 31, 2020, 01:05:51 PM
For that matter, western NY and western PA are more "Old Northwest" or whatever term you would use for Ohio.

Probably "Rust Belt"?

Quote from: Alps on May 31, 2020, 01:05:51 PM

Quote from: Rothman on May 31, 2020, 12:14:18 PM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on May 29, 2020, 10:58:46 PM

Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 27, 2020, 06:46:05 PM
Does Maryland count? It's not a turnpike, and it's arguably not in the Northeast.

Maryland is certainly in the northeast. I consider it the northeast up to the Potomac River. As for I-95, I think the only toll is the Susquehanna River Bridge, heading north.

No.  No, it is not.  It is even below the Mason-Dixon Line.  It definitely has a more southern feel.

It's in the Mid-Atlantic, along with PA.

Northeast is NY and New England.

Northern NJ is Northeast, southern NJ is Mid-Atlantic. For that matter, western NY and western PA are more "Old Northwest" or whatever term you would use for Ohio. Regional lines don't follow state boundaries.

All of NJ is Northeast.

PA is Northeast.

Mid-Atlantic is kinda like Central NJ. It exists only because there's too much disagreement if the states, generally DE, MD and VA, are northeast or southeast states.

Quote from: Alps on May 31, 2020, 01:05:51 PM

Quote from: Rothman on May 31, 2020, 12:14:18 PM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on May 29, 2020, 10:58:46 PM

Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 27, 2020, 06:46:05 PM
Does Maryland count? It's not a turnpike, and it's arguably not in the Northeast.

Maryland is certainly in the northeast. I consider it the northeast up to the Potomac River. As for I-95, I think the only toll is the Susquehanna River Bridge, heading north.

No.  No, it is not.  It is even below the Mason-Dixon Line.  It definitely has a more southern feel.

It's in the Mid-Atlantic, along with PA.

Northeast is NY and New England.

Northern NJ is Northeast, southern NJ is Mid-Atlantic. For that matter, western NY and western PA are more "Old Northwest" or whatever term you would use for Ohio. Regional lines don't follow state boundaries.

Western Pennsylvania was never part of the Northwest Territory. In fact, the Mason-Dixon survey placed Pittsburgh firmly in Pennsylvania by 1780, during the American Revolution. This idea that everything west of I-81 is part of the Midwest is absurd, especially when you consider that Pittsburgh is a) longitudinally east of the entire state of Florida, and b) closer to New York City than Chicago, both in a straight line and by vehicle. There's nothing "mid-" about that at all. Western Pennsylvania and western New York are interior Northeast. In fact, you can probably include Vermont as well, since it has no coastline. If the South and the West can have interior regions, then so can the Northeast, pop/soda line be damned.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 31, 2020, 02:14:34 PM

All of NJ is Northeast.

PA is Northeast.

Mid-Atlantic is kinda like Central NJ. It exists only because there's too much disagreement if the states, generally DE, MD and VA, are northeast or southeast states.

In political terms, Delaware, Maryland and Virginia are all now Northeast states, and I do not see that changing, even if a majority of the counties of Maryland and Virginia are red or deep-red. 

The counties with the large populations are either purple or light blue or deep blue, and so go the states.

Culturally, there are large parts of all three states that are Southern (I suppose in Delaware that means Sussex County).

Moderate Republicans can win in these states, as Maryland's Gov. Larry Hogan Jr. (R) demonstrates.  But I think even in Virginia, hard-right GOP candidates have no chance statewide.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 07, 2020, 08:52:04 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 31, 2020, 02:14:34 PM

All of NJ is Northeast.

PA is Northeast.

Mid-Atlantic is kinda like Central NJ. It exists only because there's too much disagreement if the states, generally DE, MD and VA, are northeast or southeast states.

In political terms, Delaware, Maryland and Virginia are all now Northeast states, and I do not see that changing, even of a majority of the counties of Maryland and Virginia are red or deep-red. 

The counties with the large populations are either purple or light blue or deep blue, and so go the states.

Culturally, there are large parts of all three states that are Southern (I suppose in Delaware that means Sussex County).

Moderate Republicans can win in these states, as Maryland's Gov. Larry Hogan Jr. (R) demonstrates.  But I think even in Virginia, hard-right GOP candidates have no chance statewide.

While I mostly agree, what region is the I-88 corridor in New York part of? It's a red area except when there's a popular incumbent, but I can't imagine it being considered anything that's not the Northeast.

Quote from: 1 on June 07, 2020, 08:58:57 PM

Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 07, 2020, 08:52:04 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 31, 2020, 02:14:34 PM

All of NJ is Northeast.

PA is Northeast.

Mid-Atlantic is kinda like Central NJ. It exists only because there's too much disagreement if the states, generally DE, MD and VA, are northeast or southeast states.

In political terms, Delaware, Maryland and Virginia are all now Northeast states, and I do not see that changing, even of a majority of the counties of Maryland and Virginia are red or deep-red. 

The counties with the large populations are either purple or light blue or deep blue, and so go the states.

Culturally, there are large parts of all three states that are Southern (I suppose in Delaware that means Sussex County).

Moderate Republicans can win in these states, as Maryland's Gov. Larry Hogan Jr. (R) demonstrates.  But I think even in Virginia, hard-right GOP candidates have no chance statewide.

While I mostly agree, what region is the I-88 corridor in New York part of? It's a red area except when there's a popular incumbent, but I can't imagine it being considered anything that's not the Northeast.

The Northeast.

PA. Yes, the road is insanely long, but the service plazas are nice. Sideling Hill is my favorite one. Cleanest Burger King I've eaten at. The view of the mountain is stunning.

The PA turnpike serves its purpose and I respect its historical significance, but it drives me crazy with a bad combination of an incredibly boring ride at high speeds on a narrow roadway with lots of truck traffic - at least the eastern half which I drive every so often to visit family.  They can't widen it soon enough.

I hate them all. Shunpiking is cool.

I think it's silly to associate Dems with the Northeast and therefore shove MD into the Northeast per that idea.

The cultural and ecological differences are many between MD and MA, for example.

Quote from: Rothman on June 08, 2020, 10:20:47 AM
I think it's silly to associate Dems with the Northeast and therefore shove MD into the Northeast per that idea.

The cultural and ecological differences are many between MD and MA, for example.

If we use politics, then parts of upstate NY would be in the deep south and Miami would be in the northeast.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 08, 2020, 10:38:06 AM

Quote from: Rothman on June 08, 2020, 10:20:47 AM
I think it's silly to associate Dems with the Northeast and therefore shove MD into the Northeast per that idea.

The cultural and ecological differences are many between MD and MA, for example.

If we use politics, then parts of upstate NY would be in the deep south and Miami would be in the northeast.

Precisely why it's absurd to do so.

Been on all of them except Maine. Voted for New Jersey, mostly for the unique signage that's mostly a distant memory now.

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 07, 2020, 11:09:44 PM
The PA turnpike serves its purpose and I respect its historical significance, but it drives me crazy with a bad combination of an incredibly boring ride at high speeds on a narrow roadway with lots of truck traffic - at least the eastern half which I drive every so often to visit family.  They can't widen it soon enough.

The upgraded six-lane segments (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5635466,-79.8522079,3a,75y,137.17h,94.95t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMTJGaTwdCNcYGaZta2KriBmM3RUUag22sh8nuo!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMTJGaTwdCNcYGaZta2KriBmM3RUUag22sh8nuo%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0.68361497-ya212.42894-ro2.8187656-fo100!7i7680!8i3840) of the Pennsylvania Turnpike are excellent, though.

Quote from: Gnutella on June 07, 2020, 07:04:36 PM

Quote from: Alps on May 31, 2020, 01:05:51 PM

Quote from: Rothman on May 31, 2020, 12:14:18 PM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on May 29, 2020, 10:58:46 PM

Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 27, 2020, 06:46:05 PM
Does Maryland count? It's not a turnpike, and it's arguably not in the Northeast.

Maryland is certainly in the northeast. I consider it the northeast up to the Potomac River. As for I-95, I think the only toll is the Susquehanna River Bridge, heading north.

No.  No, it is not.  It is even below the Mason-Dixon Line.  It definitely has a more southern feel.

It's in the Mid-Atlantic, along with PA.

Northeast is NY and New England.

Northern NJ is Northeast, southern NJ is Mid-Atlantic. For that matter, western NY and western PA are more "Old Northwest" or whatever term you would use for Ohio. Regional lines don't follow state boundaries.

Western Pennsylvania was never part of the Northwest Territory. In fact, the Mason-Dixon survey placed Pittsburgh firmly in Pennsylvania by 1780, during the American Revolution. This idea that everything west of I-81 is part of the Midwest is absurd, especially when you consider that Pittsburgh is a) longitudinally east of the entire state of Florida, and b) closer to New York City than Chicago, both in a straight line and by vehicle. There's nothing "mid-" about that at all. Western Pennsylvania and western New York are interior Northeast. In fact, you can probably include Vermont as well, since it has no coastline. If the South and the West can have interior regions, then so can the Northeast, pop/soda line be damned.

1.  West PA is not the mid-west, lol.  The mid west is based of flat farmland.  That ain't WPA.
2.  What WPA/WNY/NE OH are...they are the mid east. 

Quote from: bluecountry on August 02, 2020, 09:39:59 PM
1.  West PA is not the mid-west, lol.  The mid west is based of flat farmland.  That ain't WPA.

The Midwest is (https://goo.gl/maps/KnGVEqmJUmgW8dgv6) not all (https://goo.gl/maps/LKF4X6HUFJmYzCUm8) flat. (https://goo.gl/maps/Xkuk1dcCMrTskrWv9)

And there is some relatively flat farmland in western Pennsylvania. (https://goo.gl/maps/U1DA1kZMvWm5e8xG6)

Quote from: Revive 755 on August 02, 2020, 10:05:21 PM

Quote from: bluecountry on August 02, 2020, 09:39:59 PM
1.  West PA is not the mid-west, lol.  The mid west is based of flat farmland.  That ain't WPA.

The Midwest is (https://goo.gl/maps/KnGVEqmJUmgW8dgv6) not all (https://goo.gl/maps/LKF4X6HUFJmYzCUm8) flat. (https://goo.gl/maps/Xkuk1dcCMrTskrWv9)

Um, yeah, that's flat. I don't think anyone thinks that flat means no small rolling hills or an embankment off a roadway.

Bottom line, if it's located in one of the 13 original colonies, then it's categorically not in the Midwest.

Quote from: Gnutella on August 05, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
Bottom line, if it's located in one of the 13 original colonies, then it's categorically not in the Midwest.

The 13 colonies extended farther than they do now. Kentucky was originally part of Virginia, and it's in line with Indiana and Ohio.

i have to say, the nj turnpike.. its not just a road, its an adventure

i find it absolutely bananas how you have to plan where you're going in new york like 20 miles out from the GWB.

Quote from: 1 on August 05, 2020, 11:41:05 AM

Quote from: Gnutella on August 05, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
Bottom line, if it's located in one of the 13 original colonies, then it's categorically not in the Midwest.

The 13 colonies extended farther than they do now. Kentucky was originally part of Virginia, and it's in line with Indiana and Ohio.

Pittsburgh was settled by British settlers in 1758, incorporated in 1771, and placed in Pennsylvania by Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon in 1780. Stop placing it in the Midwest, where it doesn't belong. Same goes for Buffalo and Rochester, for that matter. The Northeast doesn't end at I-fucking-81.

I'm honestly surprised to see the NJ Turnpike currently topping the list. While it will always hold a very special, dear place in my heart, in terms of scenic quality and historicity (The FIRST modern American Turnpike), Pennsylvania Turnpike wins my vote. I've never been the full length of the Tunnel Turnpike, but boy would I love to do that when I have time and money. It even has the cool Abandoned section!!

Quote from: J3ebrules on August 06, 2020, 12:22:39 AM
I'm honestly surprised to see the NJ Turnpike currently topping the list. While it will always hold a very special, dear place in my heart, in terms of scenic quality and historicity (The FIRST modern American Turnpike), Pennsylvania Turnpike wins my vote. I've never been the full length of the Tunnel Turnpike, but boy would I love to do that when I have time and money. It even has the cool Abandoned section!!

Clinching the PA Turnpike mainline was probably my favorite clinch!  I wish I had a chance to clinch the whole NJ Turnpike, TBH.  I think I'm only missing the eastern spur and the Newark Bay Extension.

Quote from: Gnutella on August 05, 2020, 07:17:53 PM

Quote from: 1 on August 05, 2020, 11:41:05 AM

Quote from: Gnutella on August 05, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
Bottom line, if it's located in one of the 13 original colonies, then it's categorically not in the Midwest.

The 13 colonies extended farther than they do now. Kentucky was originally part of Virginia, and it's in line with Indiana and Ohio.

Pittsburgh was settled by British settlers in 1758, incorporated in 1771, and placed in Pennsylvania by Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon in 1780. Stop placing it in the Midwest, where it doesn't belong. Same goes for Buffalo and Rochester, for that matter. The Northeast doesn't end at I-fucking-81.

And slightly a bit before by the French in 1754 as Fort Duquesne.

Quote from: Gnutella on August 05, 2020, 07:17:53 PM

Quote from: 1 on August 05, 2020, 11:41:05 AM

Quote from: Gnutella on August 05, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
Bottom line, if it's located in one of the 13 original colonies, then it's categorically not in the Midwest.

The 13 colonies extended farther than they do now. Kentucky was originally part of Virginia, and it's in line with Indiana and Ohio.

Pittsburgh was settled by British settlers in 1758, incorporated in 1771, and placed in Pennsylvania by Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon in 1780. Stop placing it in the Midwest, where it doesn't belong. Same goes for Buffalo and Rochester, for that matter. The Northeast doesn't end at I-fucking-81.

That's why it's the mid-east.

NJ Turnpike due to Express Local roadways for 63 miles Florence Exit 6 to Fort Lee Exit 73. Express Roadway becomes Western Spur 18W Local Eastern Spur 18E.

Quote from: Interstatefan78 on August 15, 2020, 01:37:37 AM
Express Roadway becomes Western Spur 18W Local Eastern Spur 18E.

Actually, both roadways split to both the western and eastern spurs, because the spurs go to different interchanges.

Quote from: Interstatefan78 on August 15, 2020, 01:37:37 AM
NJ Turnpike due to Express Local roadways for 63 miles Florence Exit 6 to Fort Lee Exit 73. Express Roadway becomes Western Spur 18W Local Eastern Spur 18E.

It's not an Express roadway. They are known as inner and outer roadways, or car and truck lanes. Both roadways allow exits at all interchanges, so there's nothing "Express".

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 15, 2020, 09:44:57 AM
It's not an Express roadway. They are known as inner and outer roadways, or car and truck lanes. Both roadways allow exits at all interchanges, so there's nothing "Express".

A family member in New Jersey refers to the cars-only roadway as "the express lanes," so it's probably a common misnomer.

Quote from: stridentweasel on August 15, 2020, 09:51:53 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 15, 2020, 09:44:57 AM
It's not an Express roadway. They are known as inner and outer roadways, or car and truck lanes. Both roadways allow exits at all interchanges, so there's nothing "Express".

A family member in New Jersey refers to the cars-only roadway as "the express lanes," so it's probably a common misnomer.

Especially as the cars only lanes can be anything but express.

Quote from: stridentweasel on August 15, 2020, 09:51:53 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 15, 2020, 09:44:57 AM
It's not an Express roadway. They are known as inner and outer roadways, or car and truck lanes. Both roadways allow exits at all interchanges, so there's nothing "Express".

A family member in New Jersey refers to the cars-only roadway as "the express lanes," so it's probably a common misnomer.

Especially if you're on these forums, they should know better.

And as Rothman stated...the car lanes are often more used and thus slower than the truck lanes.

There's been times I've had more success moving 75 - 80 mph in the truck lanes vs. the car lanes that may be full flowing only 70 mph.

I'm going to jump in and say that I've heard north Jerseyans refer to the cars-only as "Express" , probably thinking analogous to I-80's express/local lanes. Yes, 80 does have legit "Express"  - as in, not all exits accessible (although God knows I've sat in them and watched the Local lanes fly by - similarly to bring in Cars only on the Turnpike), but I can see why people around there think of them as similar ideas. So just wanted to confirm  that his family member isn't a crazy one-off, even though obviously incorrect.

As a total aside, it's funny thinking of Cars Only as "Express"  given that it can be slower - my mother always got into the Truck lanes when I was a kid because she said that those lanes were the slower ones and those in the Cars lanes wanted to speed without trucks in the way!

Meanwhile, after I nearly got turned into Human-and-Metal pudding against those enormous sound barriers around exit 9 or 10 by a truck that nearly ran me off the road, I've avoided the Truck lanes.

Quote from: J3ebrules on August 16, 2020, 12:33:50 AM
I'm going to jump in and say that I've heard north Jerseyans refer to the cars-only as "Express" , probably thinking analogous to I-80's express/local lanes. Yes, 80 does have legit "Express"  - as in, not all exits accessible (although God knows I've sat in them and watched the Local lanes fly by - similarly to bring in Cars only on the Turnpike), but I can see why people around there think of them as similar ideas. So just wanted to confirm  that his family member isn't a crazy one-off, even though obviously incorrect.

As a total aside, it's funny thinking of Cars Only as "Express"  given that it can be slower - my mother always got into the Truck lanes when I was a kid because she said that those lanes were the slower ones and those in the Cars lanes wanted to speed without trucks in the way!

Meanwhile, after I nearly got turned into Human-and-Metal pudding against those enormous sound barriers around exit 9 or 10 by a truck that nearly ran me off the road, I've avoided the Truck lanes.

My dad would never take the inner roadway (the technical name, not car lanes, because sometimes trucks are let onto them) because he was worried about a ramp being closed and he couldn't get out. My response... they can also close ramps from the outer roadway...

Quote from: Alps on August 16, 2020, 12:55:26 AM
My dad would never take the inner roadway

Sounds like a Philly traffic reporter referencing the inner or outer drives of Roosevelt Boulevard.

Quote(the technical name, not car lanes, because sometimes trucks are let onto them)

Indeed they are, but I don't worry about that minituae [sp.].  That said, they didn't have those famous flip signs all those years for nothing.

One time going up to NYC with my dad (we lived in Delaware Co., PA), coming up the Pike approaching the old split before exit 9, all traffic was shunted onto the outer drive (I don't recall a major backup; maybe maintenance on the inner drive).  The signs were flipped accordingly (the outer drive was signed ALL TRAFFIC FOR ALL EXITS).

Quotebecause he was worried about a ramp being closed and he couldn't get out. My response... they can also close ramps from the outer roadway...

My mother had a similar worry: that inner drive usage prevented exiting at all, i.e. that ramps north of the split fed to and from the outer drive only.

ixnay

Quote from: J3ebrules on August 16, 2020, 12:33:50 AM
I'm going to jump in and say that I've heard north Jerseyans refer to the cars-only as "Express" , probably thinking analogous to I-80's express/local lanes. Yes, 80 does have legit "Express"  - as in, not all exits accessible (although God knows I've sat in them and watched the Local lanes fly by - similarly to bring in Cars only on the Turnpike), but I can see why people around there think of them as similar ideas. So just wanted to confirm  that his family member isn't a crazy one-off, even though obviously incorrect.

As a total aside, it's funny thinking of Cars Only as "Express"  given that it can be slower - my mother always got into the Truck lanes when I was a kid because she said that those lanes were the slower ones and those in the Cars lanes wanted to speed without trucks in the way!

Meanwhile, after I nearly got turned into Human-and-Metal pudding against those enormous sound barriers around exit 9 or 10 by a truck that nearly ran me off the road, I've avoided the Truck lanes.

Correct I-78 has them too exits 48-58. Only Exit 56 offers entry and exit from Express and Local Lanes

I chose the PA turnpike.  To me, having spent most of my life on the West Coast, toll roads are often the best roads in the region. I especially like the long distances between exits which helps people more often stay right except to pass since there isn't an exit every 2 miles as is often the case on free roads.  I don't remember the CT turnpike meeting these criteria and with no toll infrastructure to build, there are likely to be even more in fill on and off ramps in the future?

The PA turnpike, especially the mainline East-West road has amazing engineering, gentle grades and those awesome tunnels.  Even the NE Extension has 1 cool tunnel.  Plus a nearly constant and lightly enforced 70 MPH speed limit.  Most of the mainline mileage in Central PA is almost never truly congested in the way the GSP or NJTP are.

Now that we live in NY near Rochester, I think the I-90 Thruway is fine also. The geography it passes through especially west of I-81 is very unimpressive so there aren't a lot of neat engineering elements to it but it is well maintained, has long gaps between exits, reasonably placed service plazas and for passenger cars, a lower toll rate than many.