I was poking round Jacksonville on Maps and I noticed a particularly ugly stretch of I-95 (https://www.google.pl/maps/@30.3325727,-81.6730793,1891m/data=!3m1!1e3) in downtown. That got me thinking of other metros with horrific, awful, downright shitty exit patterns, be they weavy, lefty, clustered, or just stupid. Springing to mind were the rapid-fire exits/entrances on the Dan Ryan in Chicago (https://www.google.pl/maps/@41.8822144,-87.6503133,1250m/data=!3m1!1e3) and the infamous alphabet loop of KC (https://www.google.pl/maps/@39.1008552,-94.5884894,2164m/data=!3m1!1e3). Feel free to share other examples below!
Downtown Minneapolis (I-94/35W/MN 55, city streets)
https://goo.gl/maps/Kgsm9o28BNc36FjLA
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 14, 2020, 09:58:57 PM
Springing to mind were the rapid-fire exits/entrances on the Dan Ryan in Chicago (https://www.google.pl/maps/@41.8822144,-87.6503133,1250m/data=!3m1!1e3)
Technically that section is the southern end of the Kennedy. 90/94 is the Kennedy north of 290/the Eisenhower, and the Ryan south of the Ike. Makes traffic reports easier, when the major expressways all travel to/from Downtown
There used to be even more rapid fire exits on that short stretch. IDOT removed some of the ramps several years back
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 14, 2020, 10:43:02 PM
Downtown Minneapolis (I-94/35W/MN 55, city streets)
https://goo.gl/maps/Kgsm9o28BNc36FjLA
Doesn't look super dense, but it does get pretty ugly at both 35W/94 interchanges and the tight curve on 94 at Hennepin.
Quote from: ilpt4u on May 15, 2020, 07:15:05 AM
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 14, 2020, 09:58:57 PM
Springing to mind were the rapid-fire exits/entrances on the Dan Ryan in Chicago (https://www.google.pl/maps/@41.8822144,-87.6503133,1250m/data=!3m1!1e3)
Technically that section is the southern end of the Kennedy. 90/94 is the Kennedy north of 290/the Eisenhower, and the Ryan south of the Ike. Makes traffic reports easier, when the major expressways all travel to/from Downtown
There used to be even more rapid fire exits on that short stretch. IDOT removed some of the ramps several years back
Yeah, looks less packed just north of 290 but still a ton of center-median left entrances in that area.
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 15, 2020, 09:02:59 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 14, 2020, 10:43:02 PM
Downtown Minneapolis (I-94/35W/MN 55, city streets)
https://goo.gl/maps/Kgsm9o28BNc36FjLA
Doesn't look super dense, but it does get pretty ugly at both 35W/94 interchanges and the tight curve on 94 at Hennepin.
The focus was supposed to just be on the eastern 94/35W cluster, but I guess as usual Maps had its own deas about what it wanted to display.
The redesigned US 6 freeway from I-25 west to Perry Street in Denver is my "champion" for the downtown Denver area. You merge from northbound/southbound I-25 onto a parallel collector lanes, immediately have a left merge (https://www.google.pl/maps/@39.725594,-105.0161162,3a,75y,262.56h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shjEJQgBNej9eR6Fi0RY9-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) from an exit from the 6th Avenue mainline, then a left exit (https://www.google.pl/maps/@39.725564,-105.0196875,3a,75y,272.03h,81.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_C_5V8kVaVwwXABwiF3Wdg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) to CO 88/Federal Boulevard, then not just one (https://www.google.pl/maps/@39.7258608,-105.0217004,3a,75y,262.89h,88.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sETY1FIVyjZ-tJSvPstNJQw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) but two (https://www.google.pl/maps/@39.7256719,-105.0316616,3a,34.2y,256.9h,96.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suQy0wxKdCAc98vDdtFdkKA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) lane drops before merging with the mainline just after the Perry Street exit. It's a constant source of backups and frustration.
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 14, 2020, 09:58:57 PM
the infamous alphabet loop of KC (https://www.google.pl/maps/@39.1008552,-94.5884894,2164m/data=!3m1!1e3).
I've never had a problem with KC's loop.
I-83 along the Capital Beltway, exits 50-51.
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 14, 2020, 09:58:57 PM
Springing to mind were the rapid-fire exits/entrances on the Dan Ryan in Chicago (https://www.google.pl/maps/@41.8822144,-87.6503133,1250m/data=!3m1!1e3)
That's the Kennedy Expressway there. Entries on the left, exits on the right, and includes use of Exits 51A through 51I, inclusive (Exits 51H&I are for Ida B. Wells Dr. (nee Congress Pkwy) and I-290 (Eisenhower Expy)).
I-110 in Baton Rouge is pretty rough. Lots of right hand entrances and left exits. Factor in the curves near the capitol building, where it also floods frequently and the already bad traffic and you get a good tangle.
Also of note, although not in downtown BR. I-12 merging onto I-10 west headed towards downtown. None of the 3 lanes from I-12 make it to the I-10 through lanes that carry over the Mississippi River. Lanes 5 and 4 drop at the first 2 exits (College Dr and Acadian Thruway) and Lane 3 becomes part of I-110. I-10 will be expanded through that section (somehow) but it would benefit to have some sort of express or thru section for long distance traffic coming from I-12 to bypass exits and head for I-10 west and beyond.
iPhone
Downtown Pittsburgh, anyone? I've seen memes about the Fort Pitt Bridge, but that's hardly the only example :wow:
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2020, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 14, 2020, 09:58:57 PM
the infamous alphabet loop of KC (https://www.google.pl/maps/@39.1008552,-94.5884894,2164m/data=!3m1!1e3).
I've never had a problem with KC's loop.
Have you ever tried following northbound I-35 (the signed way)? Those two quick, consecutive lane changes to the left can be a pain.
It's so horrible that the 45-MPH speed limit is probably warranted. But Kansas City drivers are so horrible that you're unlikely to ever see them come close to obeying it.
It's long overdue for an overhaul. It would be nice to see one that safely brings it up to a 55-MPH design speed (except for the corner curves). There have been many ideas floated around, including removing the northern portion entirely, but as far as I know, nothing has been firmly decided on.
Edit: Also, in my opinion, northbound I-71 through downtown Columbus, OH isn't much better, for the same reason as northbound I-35: you have to make two consecutive lane changes to the left in a relatively short distance.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 15, 2020, 04:04:07 PM
Downtown Pittsburgh, anyone? I've seen memes about the Fort Pitt Bridge, but that's hardly the only example :wow:
Yes, agreed. That's an absolute mess down there - all of the downtown freeways.
Glasgow, Scotland. Originally built as two sides of a planned motorway box around the center of the city, there are intersections built for motorway-to-motorway connections that were never built, right exits and right entrances on tight curves, and then when the third side was finally built, the original stub ramps weren't used.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Glasgow,+UK/@55.8609976,-4.255862,14.43z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x488815562056ceeb:0x71e683b805ef511e!8m2!3d55.8643309!4d-4.251709
Quote from: djlynch on May 15, 2020, 09:17:40 PM
Glasgow, Scotland. Originally built as two sides of a planned motorway box around the center of the city, there are intersections built for motorway-to-motorway connections that were never built, right exits and right entrances on tight curves, and then when the third side was finally built, the original stub ramps weren't used.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Glasgow,+UK/@55.8609976,-4.255862,14.43z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x488815562056ceeb:0x71e683b805ef511e!8m2!3d55.8643309!4d-4.251709
I assume you're referring to the interchange of the M74 and M8? From a quick first look, I think the surveyor goofed up and was a block off when staking out the ramp alignments.
Quote from: djlynch on May 15, 2020, 09:17:40 PM
Glasgow, Scotland. Originally built as two sides of a planned motorway box around the center of the city, there are intersections built for motorway-to-motorway connections that were never built, right exits and right entrances on tight curves, and then when the third side was finally built, the original stub ramps weren't used.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Glasgow,+UK/@55.8609976,-4.255862,14.43z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x488815562056ceeb:0x71e683b805ef511e!8m2!3d55.8643309!4d-4.251709
Here's the original plan:
(https://i.imgur.com/iOn6NV3.jpg)
I-5 from Mercer to SR 520 to 45th Street. Exits on the right, left, and right respectively, which causes major jams from weaving.
Atlanta Downtown Connector (I-75/I-85). You have I-85 merging from the left followed by several spaghetti exits, then a right hand to GA-10 and the I-20 mess. I don't think there's a single exit on that section that isn't an overengineered spaghetti mess.
Quote from: mrcmc888 on May 16, 2020, 08:08:09 PM
Atlanta Downtown Connector (I-75/I-85). You have I-85 merging from the left followed by several spaghetti exits, then a right hand to GA-10 and the I-20 mess. I don't think there's a single exit on that section that isn't an overengineered spaghetti mess.
Define "overengineered."
Quote from: stridentweasel on May 16, 2020, 08:37:21 PM
Quote from: mrcmc888 on May 16, 2020, 08:08:09 PM
Atlanta Downtown Connector (I-75/I-85). You have I-85 merging from the left followed by several spaghetti exits, then a right hand to GA-10 and the I-20 mess. I don't think there's a single exit on that section that isn't an overengineered spaghetti mess.
Define "overengineered."
Anything that gets less total traffic than was expected upon design. Like a 3-lane freeway that gets few cards (coughAkroncough)
Quote from: stridentweasel on May 16, 2020, 08:37:21 PM
Quote from: mrcmc888 on May 16, 2020, 08:08:09 PM
Atlanta Downtown Connector (I-75/I-85). You have I-85 merging from the left followed by several spaghetti exits, then a right hand to GA-10 and the I-20 mess. I don't think there's a single exit on that section that isn't an overengineered spaghetti mess.
Define "overengineered."
Needlessly complex exits to surface streets that have multiple ramps going every which way, of which the Downtown Connector has a ton. None of them ease congestion in any way.
Quote from: Hwy 61 Revisited on May 16, 2020, 09:36:54 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on May 16, 2020, 08:37:21 PM
Quote from: mrcmc888 on May 16, 2020, 08:08:09 PM
Atlanta Downtown Connector (I-75/I-85). You have I-85 merging from the left followed by several spaghetti exits, then a right hand to GA-10 and the I-20 mess. I don't think there's a single exit on that section that isn't an overengineered spaghetti mess.
Define "overengineered."
Anything that gets less total traffic than was expected upon design. Like a 3-lane freeway that gets few cards (coughAkroncough)
How about the two sequential Y-Interchange Freeway-style exits in East St Louis off 55/64, one for IL 3 South and the other for E St Louis surface streets (Tudor Ave Exit/Piggott Ave Entrance)?
Quote from: mrcmc888 on May 16, 2020, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on May 16, 2020, 08:37:21 PM
Define "overengineered."
Needlessly complex exits to surface streets that have multiple ramps going every which way, of which the Downtown Connector has a ton. None of them ease congestion in any way.
Those are called braided ramps. They eliminate weaving on the freeway mainline, which eases congestion on the freeway mainline and reduces collision potential. Spend some time analyzing the design before criticizing it.
I second downtown Pittsburgh. But you do have to give them a bit of a break because terrain was certainly not working in their favor.
Quote from: ilpt4u on May 16, 2020, 11:05:13 PM
Quote from: Hwy 61 Revisited on May 16, 2020, 09:36:54 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on May 16, 2020, 08:37:21 PM
Define "overengineered."
Anything that gets less total traffic than was expected upon design. Like a 3-lane freeway that gets few cards (coughAkroncough)
How about the two sequential Y-Interchange Freeway-style exits in East St Louis off 55/64, one for IL 3 South and the other for E St Louis surface streets (Tudor Ave Exit/Piggott Ave Entrance)?
Both of those were for freeways that were never built: A freeway along IL 3 down to I-255 and then beyond to Marion, and a freeway out to the IL 15/IL 163 intersection. Had they been built the PSB probably would have had even more issues, but I believe the one at IL 3 still handles a good amount of traffic.
I'm taking issue with the use of "overengineered". It seems some would rather end up with a lot more Breezewood situations rather than have something built for future improvements that may not come to fruition. It is usually easier to downgrade a facility/interchange rather than upgrade it if it is designed for less traffic than anticipated.
Quote from: stridentweasel on May 15, 2020, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2020, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 14, 2020, 09:58:57 PM
the infamous alphabet loop of KC (https://www.google.pl/maps/@39.1008552,-94.5884894,2164m/data=!3m1!1e3).
I've never had a problem with KC's loop.
Have you ever tried following northbound I-35 (the signed way)? Those two quick, consecutive lane changes to the left can be a pain.
It's so horrible that the 45-MPH speed limit is probably warranted. But Kansas City drivers are so horrible that you're unlikely to ever see them come close to obeying it.
I-35 along its signed route is my usual route through the city at any time of day other than near rush hour.
US 35 in Dayton