Has anyone ever seen a dashed middle line - i.e. passing is allowed - on a road with more than two lanes? For instance, on a 2+1 road, is there an instance where the traffic on the "1" lane can still pass in the middle lane, but must yield? Or is there an instance on a four-lane undivided road where a slow car in the left lane can be passed in the left lane of traffic going the other way?
I know what you mean but I haven't seen any in North America. They were popular here and a few still remain. It must be remembered that our central striping is white not yellow. This example shows a Land Rover in the middle lane which can be used by either direction to pass. Neither direction has priority so if vehicles were using that lane in opposite directions approaching each other there is potential for a nasty collision.
https://goo.gl/maps/9ZtDY6JXu3MYHnzS6
Some western and midwestern states allow opposing traffic to pass when there's a passing lane in one direction.
Here's an example on US 36 in western Kansas: https://goo.gl/maps/bHqMe3Nan1gce9eH9
^^ That example is fairly typical but do any exist or have existed in the past without the solid yellow line?
Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 18, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
Has anyone ever seen a dashed middle line - i.e. passing is allowed - on a road with more than two lanes? For instance, on a 2+1 road, is there an instance where the traffic on the "1" lane can still pass in the middle lane, but must yield? Or is there an instance on a four-lane undivided road where a slow car in the left lane can be passed in the left lane of traffic going the other way?
See this post Takumi made in 2011 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=294.msg128317#msg128317)–in this case, traffic coming from the other direction in his photo would have to yield if they wanted to pass.
Quote from: Truvelo on May 18, 2020, 11:27:31 AM
I know what you mean but I haven't seen any in North America. They were popular here and a few still remain. It must be remembered that our central striping is white not yellow. This example shows a Land Rover in the middle lane which can be used by either direction to pass. Neither direction has priority so if vehicles were using that lane in opposite directions approaching each other there is potential for a nasty collision.
https://goo.gl/maps/9ZtDY6JXu3MYHnzS6
Off-topic here, and there's probably another thread on this, but I've wondered how with all white striping (outside North America) like shown in the above GSV link, confusion is avoided on direction of travel for each lane.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 18, 2020, 11:42:52 AM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 18, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
Has anyone ever seen a dashed middle line - i.e. passing is allowed - on a road with more than two lanes? For instance, on a 2+1 road, is there an instance where the traffic on the "1" lane can still pass in the middle lane, but must yield? Or is there an instance on a four-lane undivided road where a slow car in the left lane can be passed in the left lane of traffic going the other way?
See this post Takumi made in 2011 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=294.msg128317#msg128317)–in this case, traffic coming from the other direction in his photo would have to yield if they wanted to pass.
Here's a google maps link to that location, for anyone curious: https://goo.gl/maps/tptCxA7GpThp4epV6
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on May 18, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
Off-topic here, and there's probably another thread on this, but I've wondered how with all white striping (outside North America) like shown in the above GSV link, confusion is avoided on direction of travel for each lane.
A 2-lane road will look identical to one half of a divided road. Our medians are however much narrower, like the PA Turnpike, so there really isn't much confusion. On the rare occasion where there is a wide median there are ways of informing drivers such as this https://goo.gl/maps/2jvWPoJfCvCmYQ4E9
There's also this when emerging from a side road https://goo.gl/maps/PaCdhNRHW1noZfyL8
Virginia's suicide lanes were double dashed yellow lines...
Here is a Gribblenation photo of the last one, US 1 south of US 58 someplace, that lasted to about 2004:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.com%2Fpapics%2Foutofstate%2FPhoto0096.jpg&hash=fb58deba247ef90b50a853fa8f835fae7b7c9832)
Quote from: Truvelo on May 18, 2020, 01:38:47 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on May 18, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
Off-topic here, and there's probably another thread on this, but I've wondered how with all white striping (outside North America) like shown in the above GSV link, confusion is avoided on direction of travel for each lane.
A 2-lane road will look identical to one half of a divided road. Our medians are however much narrower, like the PA Turnpike, so there really isn't much confusion. On the rare occasion where there is a wide median there are ways of informing drivers such as this https://goo.gl/maps/2jvWPoJfCvCmYQ4E9
There's also this when emerging from a side road https://goo.gl/maps/PaCdhNRHW1noZfyL8
What about multilane undivided roads? Just a solid white stripe separating directions? I noticed just scrolling around the standard on many local streets seems to be just a dashed white stripe, for which the yellow US equivalent would allow passing and is typically not used in a local/residential street setting.
Quote from: Truvelo on May 18, 2020, 01:38:47 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on May 18, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
Off-topic here, and there's probably another thread on this, but I've wondered how with all white striping (outside North America) like shown in the above GSV link, confusion is avoided on direction of travel for each lane.
A 2-lane road will look identical to one half of a divided road. Our medians are however much narrower, like the PA Turnpike, so there really isn't much confusion.
Well, it depends on the country, of course. In France, center lines are dashed differently from lane lines. Lane lines are dashed pretty loosely, while center lines are more tightly spaced together when passing is allowed (and solid if it's not). Finally, edge lines are much longer dashes.
(https://i.imgur.com/UI7b0oN.png)
This definitely happens both in Ontario (Canada) and in some western US states. I know it has been discussed here on the forum, although I am not sure if there has ever been a thread devoted to it.
Probably not exactly what the OP had in mind, but Mexico's A2 highways are often striped in such a way:
GSV example (https://goo.gl/maps/TAQq17guJAPbhDV46)
The shoulder is intended to be used for slower vehicles to allow passing down the center line.
I've personally been part of the following scenario on such a highway in Mexico:
Far right (shoulder / slower traffic lane), slightly straddling the dashed edge line – Two truckers
Middle, slightly straddling the dashed center line – Me, passing the truckers
Far left (oncoming lane), slightly straddling the opposite dashed edge line – Pickup, passing me
Far left (oncoming lane), slightly straddling the opposite dashed edge line – Trucker coming toward us
Ireland does it exactly the same as the Mexican example above but with yellow for the shoulder markings. Like Mexico, slower vehicles will use the shoulder to let faster traffic pass.
https://goo.gl/maps/6RnbUPxmUv6XShcE8
I think they have this on US-191 in Utah. There are frequent 3 lane sections, where two lanes are in one direction delineated with a dashed white line, and in the other direction that has yellow dashed line where the sight line is far enough enough to pass. Also single lane is not supposed to pass when there is car in either lane in the other direction.
Chickasaw Turnpike.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Chickasaw_Turnpike_3-lane.jpg/800px-Chickasaw_Turnpike_3-lane.jpg)
Cretin Ave. St. Paul, MN.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.952347,-93.19251,3a,75y,27.26h,71.06t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sat9zfc7hpqfOML1vFYxxpA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dat9zfc7hpqfOML1vFYxxpA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D181.47015%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
Approximately two blocks of Electron Way in Fircrest, WA (https://goo.gl/maps/8Q7iHA7UKoacr9fz9) (south of Seattle) are painted this way:
(https://i.imgur.com/VZxVysF.png)
Quote from: DJ Particle on May 19, 2020, 01:55:00 AM
Cretin Ave. St. Paul, MN.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.952347,-93.19251,3a,75y,27.26h,71.06t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sat9zfc7hpqfOML1vFYxxpA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dat9zfc7hpqfOML1vFYxxpA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D181.47015%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
This has to be the most extreme example so far, and reminds me a lot of the UK's four-lane undivided roads.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 19, 2020, 04:29:09 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on May 19, 2020, 01:55:00 AM
Cretin Ave. St. Paul, MN.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.952347,-93.19251,3a,75y,27.26h,71.06t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sat9zfc7hpqfOML1vFYxxpA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dat9zfc7hpqfOML1vFYxxpA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D181.47015%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
This has to be the most extreme example so far, and reminds me a lot of the UK's four-lane undivided roads.
The centre line is usually heavier. Four-lane undivided rural roads are rare over here due to poor safety records. This photo shows the only example I can think of where the centre line is still broken. All the others now have solid lines like this https://goo.gl/maps/QZBnVJfbnBoVm9197
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedcam.uk%2Fd70%2Ffourlaness.jpg&hash=1df4cae6561e565a5465672e1f90dac15b7c4d05)
Quote from: Truvelo on May 19, 2020, 05:50:02 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 19, 2020, 04:29:09 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on May 19, 2020, 01:55:00 AM
Cretin Ave. St. Paul, MN.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.952347,-93.19251,3a,75y,27.26h,71.06t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sat9zfc7hpqfOML1vFYxxpA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dat9zfc7hpqfOML1vFYxxpA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D181.47015%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
This has to be the most extreme example so far, and reminds me a lot of the UK's four-lane undivided roads.
The centre line is usually heavier. Four-lane undivided rural roads are rare over here due to poor safety records. This photo shows the only example I can think of where the centre line is still broken. All the others now have solid lines like this https://goo.gl/maps/QZBnVJfbnBoVm9197
http://www.speedcam.uk/d70/fourlaness.jpg
Thanks for the photo. I thought that design was more common! I guess it was but not anymore.
Not far up the road, it looks like there
still is some ambiguity (https://goo.gl/maps/voEhoKSRkBKyu8Ry7) around, if only for short distances.
This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8434033,-76.2861926,3a,36.6y,120.53h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCas5mjFBHZ-Ke31QPodPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in Norfolk, VA used to have one lane in each direction with the center turn being a two-way left turn. In the past couple years though, it was restriped to this configuration. Not sure of its intended usage.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 19, 2020, 06:07:53 PM
This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8434033,-76.2861926,3a,36.6y,120.53h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCas5mjFBHZ-Ke31QPodPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in Norfolk, VA used to have one lane in each direction with the center turn being a two-way left turn. In the past couple years though, it was restriped to this configuration. Not sure of its intended usage.
It looks consistent with tidal flow but none of the signage or signals seem to be in place yet.
Regarding three lane undivided roads I have also seen them in France. This one is in an urban 30mph limit so I don't really see the point of it.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedcam.uk%2Fd70%2Ffrance3lane.jpg&hash=acf06ecb6542e4e1474ea05b903f5d45416502a3)
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 19, 2020, 06:07:53 PM
This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8434033,-76.2861926,3a,36.6y,120.53h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCas5mjFBHZ-Ke31QPodPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in Norfolk, VA used to have one lane in each direction with the center turn being a two-way left turn. In the past couple years though, it was restriped to this configuration. Not sure of its intended usage.
Maybe they'll use it to help with traffic leaving Tides games? It is one of the logical connections from Harbor Park to 264.
Quote from: Truvelo on May 19, 2020, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 19, 2020, 06:07:53 PM
This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8434033,-76.2861926,3a,36.6y,120.53h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCas5mjFBHZ-Ke31QPodPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in Norfolk, VA used to have one lane in each direction with the center turn being a two-way left turn. In the past couple years though, it was restriped to this configuration. Not sure of its intended usage.
It looks consistent with tidal flow but none of the signage or signals seem to be in place yet.
Definitely, or what might be referred to as a "contraflow lane".
Some in the US do not operate with signals, but instead with flippable signage,
such as here (https://goo.gl/maps/h5SxAp9HUKPKje6Q9) (until it was restriped with a center lane).
As for that Norfolk example, I'm guessing the "center lane closed" sign would be bagged when contraflow is in effect, and extra signs or cones placed as necessary. Still, it's weird not to see any extra signage.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on May 20, 2020, 08:12:07 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 19, 2020, 06:07:53 PM
This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8434033,-76.2861926,3a,36.6y,120.53h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCas5mjFBHZ-Ke31QPodPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in Norfolk, VA used to have one lane in each direction with the center turn being a two-way left turn. In the past couple years though, it was restriped to this configuration. Not sure of its intended usage.
Maybe they'll use it to help with traffic leaving Tides games? It is one of the logical connections from Harbor Park to 264.
This is making me remember the old Capital Centre in Maryland, the arena where the Capitals played until 1997 (it's now been demolished and a shopping center replaced it). I think Harry S. Truman Drive, which was the primary route used to access the arena from the Beltway (via Central Avenue), was striped similarly to what's seen in that Street View image except the road was wider and they always maintained at least one lane going against the prevailing flow of traffic.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 20, 2020, 03:48:42 PM
Quote from: Truvelo on May 19, 2020, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 19, 2020, 06:07:53 PM
This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8434033,-76.2861926,3a,36.6y,120.53h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCas5mjFBHZ-Ke31QPodPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in Norfolk, VA used to have one lane in each direction with the center turn being a two-way left turn. In the past couple years though, it was restriped to this configuration. Not sure of its intended usage.
It looks consistent with tidal flow but none of the signage or signals seem to be in place yet.
Definitely, or what might be referred to as a "contraflow lane".
Some in the US do not operate with signals, but instead with flippable signage, such as here (https://goo.gl/maps/h5SxAp9HUKPKje6Q9) (until it was restriped with a center lane).
As for that Norfolk example, I'm guessing the "center lane closed" sign would be bagged when contraflow is in effect, and extra signs or cones placed as necessary. Still, it's weird not to see any extra signage.
There's something similar to that on 5400 South (SR 173) (https://goo.gl/maps/DEabRcuKB5XDVizh7) southwest of Salt Lake City, but with a lot more lanes. Normally there are 3 lanes each direction with a center turn lane, but it switches to 4-1-2 during rush hour. UDOT uses the term "Flex Lanes" to describe the setup, and that phrase is even signed at each traffic light (https://goo.gl/maps/W5dD22fbP2rhb8YG6).
Quote from: US 89 on May 21, 2020, 12:50:49 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 20, 2020, 03:48:42 PM
Quote from: Truvelo on May 19, 2020, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 19, 2020, 06:07:53 PM
This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8434033,-76.2861926,3a,36.6y,120.53h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCas5mjFBHZ-Ke31QPodPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in Norfolk, VA used to have one lane in each direction with the center turn being a two-way left turn. In the past couple years though, it was restriped to this configuration. Not sure of its intended usage.
It looks consistent with tidal flow but none of the signage or signals seem to be in place yet.
Definitely, or what might be referred to as a "contraflow lane".
Some in the US do not operate with signals, but instead with flippable signage, such as here (https://goo.gl/maps/h5SxAp9HUKPKje6Q9) (until it was restriped with a center lane).
As for that Norfolk example, I'm guessing the "center lane closed" sign would be bagged when contraflow is in effect, and extra signs or cones placed as necessary. Still, it's weird not to see any extra signage.
There's something similar to that on 5400 South (SR 173) (https://goo.gl/maps/DEabRcuKB5XDVizh7) southwest of Salt Lake City, but with a lot more lanes. Normally there are 3 lanes each direction with a center turn lane, but it switches to 4-1-2 during rush hour. UDOT uses the term "Flex Lanes" to describe the setup, and that phrase is even signed at each traffic light (https://goo.gl/maps/W5dD22fbP2rhb8YG6).
Fairly new setup there, too. Are there any other examples of these "Flex Lanes" in the Salt Lake region? It's interesting to see them given branding.
The contraflow system I am most used to is along West Georgia Street in Vancouver. The only signage from side streets are those indicating "
Centre Lane Closed When Flashing (https://goo.gl/maps/Z7PNKYawxrE4MUkF6)". But, at least with our examples, there is some signage. That Norfolk example has nothing apart from those tiny regulatory signs.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 19, 2020, 06:07:53 PM
This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8434033,-76.2861926,3a,36.6y,120.53h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCas5mjFBHZ-Ke31QPodPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in Norfolk, VA used to have one lane in each direction with the center turn being a two-way left turn. In the past couple years though, it was restriped to this configuration. Not sure of its intended usage.
The access road to the Salem Nuclear Power Plant in NJ used to be striped that way with overhead lane control signals hung from wires, but more recently they restriped it to two sets of double yellow. A sign here indicates the center lane is for emergency use only:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4970533,-75.4645437,3a,74.9y,227.89h,91.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suk9pQ0yMqQnxGkYBQoIaqA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4970533,-75.4645437,3a,74.9y,227.89h,91.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suk9pQ0yMqQnxGkYBQoIaqA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Maybe it should indicate "Center Lane for Those Fleeing for Their Lives Only"
Quote from: jakeroot on May 21, 2020, 02:15:53 AM
Quote from: US 89 on May 21, 2020, 12:50:49 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 20, 2020, 03:48:42 PM
Quote from: Truvelo on May 19, 2020, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 19, 2020, 06:07:53 PM
This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8434033,-76.2861926,3a,36.6y,120.53h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCas5mjFBHZ-Ke31QPodPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in Norfolk, VA used to have one lane in each direction with the center turn being a two-way left turn. In the past couple years though, it was restriped to this configuration. Not sure of its intended usage.
It looks consistent with tidal flow but none of the signage or signals seem to be in place yet.
Definitely, or what might be referred to as a "contraflow lane".
Some in the US do not operate with signals, but instead with flippable signage, such as here (https://goo.gl/maps/h5SxAp9HUKPKje6Q9) (until it was restriped with a center lane).
As for that Norfolk example, I'm guessing the "center lane closed" sign would be bagged when contraflow is in effect, and extra signs or cones placed as necessary. Still, it's weird not to see any extra signage.
There's something similar to that on 5400 South (SR 173) (https://goo.gl/maps/DEabRcuKB5XDVizh7) southwest of Salt Lake City, but with a lot more lanes. Normally there are 3 lanes each direction with a center turn lane, but it switches to 4-1-2 during rush hour. UDOT uses the term "Flex Lanes" to describe the setup, and that phrase is even signed at each traffic light (https://goo.gl/maps/W5dD22fbP2rhb8YG6).
Fairly new setup there, too. Are there any other examples of these "Flex Lanes" in the Salt Lake region? It's interesting to see them given branding.
Those are the only flex lanes in the state as of now. They seem to work fairly well though, so I wouldn't rule out maybe seeing some more in the Wasatch Front in the not-too-distant future.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on May 21, 2020, 10:35:25 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 19, 2020, 06:07:53 PM
This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8434033,-76.2861926,3a,36.6y,120.53h,82.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCas5mjFBHZ-Ke31QPodPUw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in Norfolk, VA used to have one lane in each direction with the center turn being a two-way left turn. In the past couple years though, it was restriped to this configuration. Not sure of its intended usage.
The access road to the Salem Nuclear Power Plant in NJ used to be striped that way with overhead lane control signals hung from wires, but more recently they restriped it to two sets of double yellow. A sign here indicates the center lane is for emergency use only:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4970533,-75.4645437,3a,74.9y,227.89h,91.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suk9pQ0yMqQnxGkYBQoIaqA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4970533,-75.4645437,3a,74.9y,227.89h,91.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suk9pQ0yMqQnxGkYBQoIaqA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Maybe it should indicate "Center Lane for Those Fleeing for Their Lives Only"
That's very interesting. Was the thinking genuinely to help with evacuation from the plant? If Chernobyl is any indication, quick evac should only be necessary if they failed to construct a containment structure around the reactor, and the thing starts releasing radioactive material into the air. Pretty sure most American reactors built since the 50s have had containment structures (unlike those shifty RBMK reactors in the Soviet Union).
Quote from: US 89 on May 21, 2020, 06:26:50 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 21, 2020, 02:15:53 AM
Are there any other examples of these "Flex Lanes" in the Salt Lake region? It's interesting to see them given branding.
Those are the only flex lanes in the state as of now. They seem to work fairly well though, so I wouldn't rule out maybe seeing some more in the Wasatch Front in the not-too-distant future.
Seems fairly unlike the SLC area to not just widen the road to add the extra lanes, so I can understand why it might be rare.
On the Mt Hood Highway (US-26) in Oregon, there are 2+1 sections where the "1" lane can pass:
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3021416,-121.7507861,3a,75y,291.71h,78.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spzlW56bG9jxz6xK7g3go7A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656