(https://i.imgur.com/vemvBCq.png)
Got google maps to route from MA 27 to the Mass pike through the Natick service plaza. They don't suggest it at first, but I was able to reroute through the plaza. Google does suggest going on the plaza's surface road entrance if you put in directions to the plaza itself. Do people actually enter toll roads through service plazas?
Ha! And here's how (https://goo.gl/maps/bTszSdaSyTv1agH39) to get from Matfield Green to Cassoday by using two illegal access points. Of course, you'd have to have some bolt cutters...
In the Mass Pike example there's a barrier (https://goo.gl/maps/eyW9NxF1e7csP2Af9) at the service plaza with a gap big enough to squeeze through if you're riding a motorbike.
There are no toll roads I know of where back accesses are ungated for obvious reasons.
Quote from: Truvelo on May 27, 2020, 04:57:10 PM
In the Mass Pike example there's a barrier (https://goo.gl/maps/eyW9NxF1e7csP2Af9) at the service plaza with a gap big enough to squeeze through if you're riding a motorbike.
There are no toll roads I know of where back accesses are ungated for obvious reasons.
At the ludlow plaza, Dangelos advertises their restaurant from the side streets.
All the Mass Pike service plazas have a parking lot on the access road from the side streets. I assume this is where customers park and then have to walk into the service plaza on foot.
Quote from: Truvelo on May 27, 2020, 05:04:14 PM
All the Mass Pike service plazas have a parking lot on the access road from the side streets. I assume this is where customers park and then have to walk into the service plaza on foot.
It's also for employees.
I seem to recall news reports about some guy getting busted for exiting and entering the Maine Turnpike illegally via a sidewalk or something similar, I think at that Ramada just south of the I-195 interchange where the hotel has its own exit off the Turnpike but there's no (legal) vehicular access to area streets for the general public.
The Cheesequake Service Plaza on the Garden State Parkway appears to permit access to and from the Parkway from CR-615 via the permit parking area at the north end of the service plaza. There doesn't appear to be a gate, based on Street View imagery.
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
Ha! And here's how (https://goo.gl/maps/bTszSdaSyTv1agH39) to get from Matfield Green to Cassoday by using two illegal access points. Of course, you'd have to have some bolt cutters...
There's always KS 177, which shouldn't require bolt cutters.
Back when the O’Hare Oasis on the Tri-State Tollway existed, the gates to the access roads were almost never closed. So one day, I came up Mannheim Road, turned on to Belle Plaine, came up the access road, parked in the employee parking lot, and had a nice lunch at Panda. Then, once I was back in my car, I cut across into the main section of the parking lot, and got on the ramp to the highway.
Overall, it was kind of fun. Not the worst Saturday of my life.
(https://i.imgur.com/zPTikL0.png)
Not entering per say, but I have used the (usually closed) gate that separates EB & WB traffic at the DeKalb Oasis Mobil gas station on the Reagan Tollway/I-88 to head back in the direction I came from, typically WB back to EB
Sometimes that gate is left open. Does that count as an illegal U-Turn? Maybe? Even if the gate is closed, it really isn't that hard to "hop the curb" separating the EB and WB sides of the gas station, especially driving a pickup or SUV. If ISTHA really didn't want you to do it, it would have a Jersey Barrier separating the two sides
Of course, should you illegally enter a ticket-system toll road, you'd also need to find an illegal exit or face the "maximum fare charged for lost ticket" penalty X-(
This would have been an issue previously in the OP's Natick Plaza example, but with the new all-electronic system it would just shake out as an "entry" at the Weston toll gantry located a couple miles east before 95/128.
It appears the Google Street View car accessed New Jersey's John Fenwick Service Area when someone left the gate open:
https://goo.gl/maps/BaB5cFL1g3mYWUVQ9
Quote from: ilpt4u on May 27, 2020, 08:26:49 PM
Not entering per say, but I have used the (usually closed) gate that separates EB & WB traffic at the DeKalb Oasis Mobil gas station on the Reagan Tollway/I-88 to head back in the direction I came from, typically WB back to EB
Sometimes that gate is left open. Does that count as an illegal U-Turn? Maybe? Even if the gate is closed, it really isn't that hard to "hop the curb" separating the EB and WB sides of the gas station, especially driving a pickup or SUV. If ISTHA really didn't want you to do it, it would have a Jersey Barrier separating the two sides
It's completely normal for that sort of movement to be possible here in Kansas. The service plaza is in the middle of the two directions, with the parking lots and gas station having access to both directions.
Here (https://goo.gl/maps/7paBfzkTAPv6uCBz6), in fact, are signs at the Topeka service area for both directions.
So I submitted a data correction request to Google, noting a blockade at this service area. Let's see if the reaction makes it a candidate for another long-running thread on the board.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 27, 2020, 05:33:15 PM
The Cheesequake Service Plaza on the Garden State Parkway appears to permit access to and from the Parkway from CR-615 via the permit parking area at the north end of the service plaza. There doesn't appear to be a gate, based on Street View imagery.
There are a couple of service plazas along the GSP with access to local streets. The Cheesequake access is intended for drivers parking to use the Academy Bus park and ride and is signed for this use at entrance:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.469336,-74.2933753,3a,49.2y,127.84h,89.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGxYyC_sx6FZaRvl0iZj3AA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.469336,-74.2933753,3a,49.2y,127.84h,89.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGxYyC_sx6FZaRvl0iZj3AA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
I've seen state troopers monitoring this entrance from the upper plaza end of the parking lot for drivers using it as exit/entrance rather than parking.
The Monmouth rest area has a similar entrance to the park and ride lot area. The PNC Bank Arts Center in Holmdel which is accessed from the Parkway also has a "secret" entrance/exit to a local road but you have to go right past a trooper barracks. People do use it for concert parking.
The Atlantic City rest area on the GSP used to actually allow traffic to access Jimmie Leeds Road through the service plaza, and there was a small sign for the road under the plaza exit signage and a traffic light for the plaza driveway on JLR. This was probably allowed at least in part to provide access to the nearby hospital from the Parkway. More recently they constructed a legitimate full interchange for this road, and no longer allow the use of the old driveway (which passes a new trooper station). The down side is that with the new configuration, there is no longer any direct access between JLR and the service plaza, so the locals and hospital workers will have to hunt down another Burger King.
Quote from: kphoger on May 28, 2020, 01:05:09 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on May 27, 2020, 08:26:49 PM
Not entering per say, but I have used the (usually closed) gate that separates EB & WB traffic at the DeKalb Oasis Mobil gas station on the Reagan Tollway/I-88 to head back in the direction I came from, typically WB back to EB
Sometimes that gate is left open. Does that count as an illegal U-Turn? Maybe? Even if the gate is closed, it really isn't that hard to "hop the curb" separating the EB and WB sides of the gas station, especially driving a pickup or SUV. If ISTHA really didn't want you to do it, it would have a Jersey Barrier separating the two sides
It's completely normal for that sort of movement to be possible here in Kansas. The service plaza is in the middle of the two directions, with the parking lots and gas station having access to both directions.
Here (https://goo.gl/maps/7paBfzkTAPv6uCBz6), in fact, are signs at the Topeka service area for both directions.
KP, It is a bit different having access only to/from the turnpike like in you example and being able to access the tollway from a side service road at the O'Hare Oasis. In the old days, if I didn't have the 40 cents to pay the Touhy Toll or the Irving Park Toll, I would use the Oasis service exit and entrance to get on/off 294. Just sayin.
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 29, 2020, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 28, 2020, 01:05:09 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on May 27, 2020, 08:26:49 PM
Not entering per say, but I have used the (usually closed) gate that separates EB & WB traffic at the DeKalb Oasis Mobil gas station on the Reagan Tollway/I-88 to head back in the direction I came from, typically WB back to EB
Sometimes that gate is left open. Does that count as an illegal U-Turn? Maybe? Even if the gate is closed, it really isn't that hard to "hop the curb" separating the EB and WB sides of the gas station, especially driving a pickup or SUV. If ISTHA really didn't want you to do it, it would have a Jersey Barrier separating the two sides
It's completely normal for that sort of movement to be possible here in Kansas. The service plaza is in the middle of the two directions, with the parking lots and gas station having access to both directions.
Here (https://goo.gl/maps/7paBfzkTAPv6uCBz6), in fact, are signs at the Topeka service area for both directions.
KP, It is a bit different having access only to/from the turnpike like in you example and being able to access the tollway from a side service road at the O'Hare Oasis. In the old days, if I didn't have the 40 cents to pay the Touhy Toll or the Irving Park Toll, I would use the Oasis service exit and entrance to get on/off 294. Just sayin.
I wasn't replying to a post about the O'Hare oasis, but to one about the DeKalb oasis. I don't see much difference between that and the Kansas one I posted.
Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 02:32:18 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 29, 2020, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 28, 2020, 01:05:09 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on May 27, 2020, 08:26:49 PM
Not entering per say, but I have used the (usually closed) gate that separates EB & WB traffic at the DeKalb Oasis Mobil gas station on the Reagan Tollway/I-88 to head back in the direction I came from, typically WB back to EB
Sometimes that gate is left open. Does that count as an illegal U-Turn? Maybe? Even if the gate is closed, it really isn't that hard to "hop the curb" separating the EB and WB sides of the gas station, especially driving a pickup or SUV. If ISTHA really didn't want you to do it, it would have a Jersey Barrier separating the two sides
It's completely normal for that sort of movement to be possible here in Kansas. The service plaza is in the middle of the two directions, with the parking lots and gas station having access to both directions.
Here (https://goo.gl/maps/7paBfzkTAPv6uCBz6), in fact, are signs at the Topeka service area for both directions.
KP, It is a bit different having access only to/from the turnpike like in you example and being able to access the tollway from a side service road at the O'Hare Oasis. In the old days, if I didn't have the 40 cents to pay the Touhy Toll or the Irving Park Toll, I would use the Oasis service exit and entrance to get on/off 294. Just sayin.
I wasn't replying to a post about the O'Hare oasis, but to one about the DeKalb oasis. I don't see much difference between that and the Kansas one I posted.
Ah. Got it. At DeKalb, the gate from the service road to the plaza is always closed. The employee lot is actually on the service road now. and the EB and WB lanes at the Oasis are separeted by "islands". It is not possible to do that at DeKalb anymore. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9003417,-88.7397877,430m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 29, 2020, 02:38:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 02:32:18 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 29, 2020, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 28, 2020, 01:05:09 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on May 27, 2020, 08:26:49 PM
Not entering per say, but I have used the (usually closed) gate that separates EB & WB traffic at the DeKalb Oasis Mobil gas station on the Reagan Tollway/I-88 to head back in the direction I came from, typically WB back to EB
Sometimes that gate is left open. Does that count as an illegal U-Turn? Maybe? Even if the gate is closed, it really isn't that hard to "hop the curb" separating the EB and WB sides of the gas station, especially driving a pickup or SUV. If ISTHA really didn't want you to do it, it would have a Jersey Barrier separating the two sides
It's completely normal for that sort of movement to be possible here in Kansas. The service plaza is in the middle of the two directions, with the parking lots and gas station having access to both directions.
Here (https://goo.gl/maps/7paBfzkTAPv6uCBz6), in fact, are signs at the Topeka service area for both directions.
KP, It is a bit different having access only to/from the turnpike like in you example and being able to access the tollway from a side service road at the O'Hare Oasis. In the old days, if I didn't have the 40 cents to pay the Touhy Toll or the Irving Park Toll, I would use the Oasis service exit and entrance to get on/off 294. Just sayin.
I wasn't replying to a post about the O'Hare oasis, but to one about the DeKalb oasis. I don't see much difference between that and the Kansas one I posted.
Ah. Got it. At DeKalb, the gate from the service road to the plaza is always closed. The employee lot is actually on the service road now. and the EB and WB lanes at the Oasis are separeted by "islands". It is not possible to do that at DeKalb anymore. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9003417,-88.7397877,430m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
I believe
ilpt4u meant that
this gate (https://goo.gl/maps/BUjLC61hw2yee2wR9) is occasionally left open. It's disallowed for you or me to drive through there even so, unlike in Kansas, but that doesn't mean it's "not possible".
At the KTA service area near Towanda (KS), in contrast, the corresponding access is just a matter of
crossing a parking lot (https://goo.gl/maps/XL8XXn2LMhZemcJbA).
Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 03:01:27 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 29, 2020, 02:38:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 02:32:18 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 29, 2020, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 28, 2020, 01:05:09 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on May 27, 2020, 08:26:49 PM
Not entering per say, but I have used the (usually closed) gate that separates EB & WB traffic at the DeKalb Oasis Mobil gas station on the Reagan Tollway/I-88 to head back in the direction I came from, typically WB back to EB
Sometimes that gate is left open. Does that count as an illegal U-Turn? Maybe? Even if the gate is closed, it really isn't that hard to "hop the curb" separating the EB and WB sides of the gas station, especially driving a pickup or SUV. If ISTHA really didn't want you to do it, it would have a Jersey Barrier separating the two sides
It's completely normal for that sort of movement to be possible here in Kansas. The service plaza is in the middle of the two directions, with the parking lots and gas station having access to both directions.
Here (https://goo.gl/maps/7paBfzkTAPv6uCBz6), in fact, are signs at the Topeka service area for both directions.
KP, It is a bit different having access only to/from the turnpike like in you example and being able to access the tollway from a side service road at the O'Hare Oasis. In the old days, if I didn't have the 40 cents to pay the Touhy Toll or the Irving Park Toll, I would use the Oasis service exit and entrance to get on/off 294. Just sayin.
I wasn't replying to a post about the O'Hare oasis, but to one about the DeKalb oasis. I don't see much difference between that and the Kansas one I posted.
Ah. Got it. At DeKalb, the gate from the service road to the plaza is always closed. The employee lot is actually on the service road now. and the EB and WB lanes at the Oasis are separeted by "islands". It is not possible to do that at DeKalb anymore. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9003417,-88.7397877,430m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
I believe ilpt4u meant that this gate (https://goo.gl/maps/BUjLC61hw2yee2wR9) is occasionally left open. It's disallowed for you or me to drive through there even so, unlike in Kansas, but that doesn't mean it's "not possible".
At the KTA service area near Towanda (KS), in contrast, the corresponding access is just a matter of crossing a parking lot (https://goo.gl/maps/XL8XXn2LMhZemcJbA).
That gate is only ever open for State Police or Tollway trucks. Incredibly rare. Unless you got the General Lee or a monster truck, it ain't happening.
I've seen the DeKalb Oasis gate open multiple times. I have used it when it is open.
Certainly closed is its default position, but incredibly rare is probably too far the other way. I would say that gate is left open sparingly
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 29, 2020, 03:35:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2020, 03:01:27 PM
I believe ilpt4u meant that this gate (https://goo.gl/maps/BUjLC61hw2yee2wR9) is occasionally left open. It's disallowed for you or me to drive through there even so, unlike in Kansas, but that doesn't mean it's "not possible".
At the KTA service area near Towanda (KS), in contrast, the corresponding access is just a matter of crossing a parking lot (https://goo.gl/maps/XL8XXn2LMhZemcJbA).
That gate is only ever open for State Police or Tollway trucks. Incredibly rare. Unless you got the General Lee or a monster truck, it ain't happening.
Looking at where the toll plazas are located the only possible journey to be made using that gate to avoid paying a toll is between exits 94 and 109.
I-88 has a couple Free Zones west of DeKalb anyway
Between I-39/US 51 and IL 251/old US 51 is a Free zone near Rochelle. Also to/from the west the Dixon exit is a Free exit now, even tho ISTHA owns the roadway until Exit 44/US 30
Bottom line - on ticket system toll roads (and those with virtual ticket systems too, such as MD-200), the toll road agencies usually do not want people entering their roads by way of maintenance gates or back gates to service plazas. Nor do their want patrons driving through service plazas to accomplish a "U" turn (examples include Sideling Hill on the I-76 part of the Penn Pike and the two plazas on the I-476 Northeast Extension of the Penn Pike, which serve both directions but have barriers to prevent someone from making a "U" Turn).
The one exception I have seen to this on the I-70 part of the Kansas Turnpike (between Topeka and Kansas City, a ticket toll road), where the two plazas serve both directions, and a "U" Turn is possible and not forbidden by signage.
Compare and contrast with median plazas like the ones on I-95 in Maryland and Delaware, and at some of the plazas on the Garden State Parkway. Nobody cares if a driver makes a "U" Turn at these. In the days of the ramp tolls (at least on the I-95 part in Maryland) there were barriers that could be raised (looked like railroad grade crossing gates, minus the flashing lights) to allow official vehicles to make a "U" turn, but not for others, since a "U" turn was a simple way to evade payment of those ramp tolls. I do not remember if Delaware had similar barriers at its plaza in the days of ramp tolls.
As for walking in to a service plaza from the employee lot, I do not think anyone really cares (Looking for America on the New Jersey Turnpike describes people walking to the plaza from the neighborhood outside the gate (might have been the Thomas Edison plaza on the southbound side in Woodbridge or the Grover Cleveland plaza nearby on the northbound side) to purchase breakfast, and there was no objection raised by the NJTA or NJSP).
Some friends and I had a need to use facilities and get something to eat in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania, but near the Sideling Hill plaza. We parked in the employee lot (and there's a gate to prevent vehicles from entering the Turnpike there) and followed a nice sidewalk to the plaza building. Even though the road to the employee parking has a pair of PRIVATE ROAD signs (which PTC seems to install on all roads that could possibly lead to an access gate to the Turnpike), nobody cared.
Florida's Turnpike doesn't care about U-turns in the service areas either. I started a thread about that at some point in the context of placing the service areas in the median versus on the outside: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7359.msg164776#msg164776
That being said, while KTA doesn't legally disallow you from U-turning at service plazas, my understanding from KTA literature is that any sort of "impossible" routing like that would cause your toll to default to the rate charged when entering at South Haven and exiting at Kansas City (i.e. the highest toll possible for your vehicle class).
I may be wrong, however, since I've never attempted it.
You can get to the Atlantic City Expressway's service plazas without paying a toll either, although it would seem kind of pointless to drive a minimum of 20 miles just to get overpriced gas, food or drink on the Expressway.
I remember one night my wife was coming back to NJ from her family in PA over the turnpike bridge and called to tell me she was completely stopped in traffic about a half mile east after the Turnpike entry point on then 276/current 95 (interchange 6). There was some kind of major accident on the turnpike in that area (pre-widening) and for some reason both the ramps to NB and SB on the the turnpike mainline were blocked. People were out of their cars waiting, and I was considering whether to tell her to just cut across the median and go back west on 276 to the toll barrier and use another route. I wasn't sure what the penalty was for the "U-turn" movement (full distance fare?) so we debated whether it was worth it, although a few other drivers did turn around. Ultimately there were enough troopers rolling past periodically where we decided it best to just wait it out as the ticket would probably be a lot worse than whatever the turnpike would throw at her.
I had a friend/acquaintance way back in the day (when some of my friends were over 21, and some (*cough*) weren't - He had land and a trailer right next to the PA Turnpike
One night - this is when the Turnpike was doing a total reconstruction project from New Stanton to ~PA-982 - we were riding around his yard/land, when he headed out to the road, and then stopped at an open maintenance gate.... then proceeded thru.
There was some "Oh, shit!" moments, as we were now driving on the Turnpike, but then he pulled on the shoulder, slowed down, and there was an opening right onto his land.
He obviously knew about the opening, since he agreed (and probably wanted) to take a bunch of dirt/fill from the construction project to help smooth out his land.
Looking back, not a smart thing to do (as I'm sure we were all shitfaced), but it is the only time I've entered the turnpike from a non-interchange ramp.
Hard to beat this guy!
https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/03/30/local-seneca-businessman-really-building-thruway-off-ramp/473904002/
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 30, 2020, 02:22:46 PM
That being said, while KTA doesn't legally disallow you from U-turning at service plazas, my understanding from KTA literature is that any sort of "impossible" routing like that would cause your toll to default to the rate charged when entering at South Haven and exiting at Kansas City (i.e. the highest toll possible for your vehicle class).
I may be wrong, however, since I've never attempted it.
How does it work for the people who work at the restaurants and service stations in the toll plazas? Do they even have to pay a toll since they work on the turnpike?
If I worked at the Towanda service plaza, I'd hate to have to get on the turnpike at Andover, work, and then go all the way to El Dorado in order to go home so that I could avoid paying the maximum toll.
Quote from: apeman33 on June 08, 2020, 08:30:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 30, 2020, 02:22:46 PM
That being said, while KTA doesn't legally disallow you from U-turning at service plazas, my understanding from KTA literature is that any sort of "impossible" routing like that would cause your toll to default to the rate charged when entering at South Haven and exiting at Kansas City (i.e. the highest toll possible for your vehicle class).
I may be wrong, however, since I've never attempted it.
How does it work for the people who work at the restaurants and service stations in the toll plazas? Do they even have to pay a toll since they work on the turnpike?
If I worked at the Towanda service plaza, I'd hate to have to get on the turnpike at Andover, work, and then go all the way to El Dorado in order to go home so that I could avoid paying the maximum toll.
I double checked and it turns out I was misremembering a little bit, but it almost sounds worse than I wrote above. Quoting from the Wikipedia article, which I trust because I wrote it:
QuoteIf a motorist presents a ticket at the same toll plaza it was issued from, the KTA charges a "per-minute" fare if the trip was more than fifteen minutes. Should the ticket be lost, or should the trip take over eighteen hours to complete, the driver must pay the highest possible toll for that exit.
Given the fact that an 8-hour per-minute toll must be astronomical (I can't find a source for how much per minute it is), I'd have to imagine that KTA has a special K-Tag issued to employees, like New York does, that grants a special rate.
non-revenue tag all tolls cost zero
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on June 09, 2020, 02:31:54 PM
non-revenue tag all tolls cost zero
I wonder if those tags can legally be used (and are they actually used) for personal purposes? Some businesses - e.g. airlines - allow employers to use their product as a free perk - as long as that doesn't affect paying customers. For example, airline employees may occupy seats that would otherwise go out empty.
Quote from: kalvado on June 09, 2020, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on June 09, 2020, 02:31:54 PM
non-revenue tag all tolls cost zero
I wonder if those tags can legally be used (and are they actually used) for personal purposes?
Considering that it's easy enough to simply move a tag from one vehicle to another*, I'm sure there's at least someone out there doing it.
* If you never affix to your windshield to begin with, choosing instead to just masking-tape it to your windshield as needed.
Quote from: kphoger on June 09, 2020, 03:54:48 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 09, 2020, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on June 09, 2020, 02:31:54 PM
non-revenue tag all tolls cost zero
I wonder if those tags can legally be used (and are they actually used) for personal purposes?
Considering that it's easy enough to simply move a tag from one vehicle to another*, I'm sure there's at least someone out there doing it.
* If you never affix to your windshield to begin with, choosing instead to just masking-tape it to your windshield as needed.
Wouldn't they be able to cross-check tag reads to work schedules to discover abuse? If you're not scheduled to work on a Saturday, and your tag gets read that day, especially at a plaza you normally wouldn't pass through to get to work, it would be a sure sign.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2020, 01:40:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 09, 2020, 03:54:48 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 09, 2020, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on June 09, 2020, 02:31:54 PM
non-revenue tag all tolls cost zero
I wonder if those tags can legally be used (and are they actually used) for personal purposes?
Considering that it's easy enough to simply move a tag from one vehicle to another*, I'm sure there's at least someone out there doing it.
* If you never affix to your windshield to begin with, choosing instead to just masking-tape it to your windshield as needed.
Wouldn't they be able to cross-check tag reads to work schedules to discover abuse? If you're not scheduled to work on a Saturday, and your tag gets read that day, especially at a plaza you normally wouldn't pass through to get to work, it would be a sure sign.
I was about to post that no agency would likely think it's worth it to pay someone to check for that sort of thing. But then I realized that my company used to pay me to do almost the exact same thing (checking for company vehicle use when off the clock).
Quote from: kphoger on June 10, 2020, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2020, 01:40:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 09, 2020, 03:54:48 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 09, 2020, 03:36:33 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on June 09, 2020, 02:31:54 PM
non-revenue tag all tolls cost zero
I wonder if those tags can legally be used (and are they actually used) for personal purposes?
Considering that it's easy enough to simply move a tag from one vehicle to another*, I'm sure there's at least someone out there doing it.
* If you never affix to your windshield to begin with, choosing instead to just masking-tape it to your windshield as needed.
Wouldn't they be able to cross-check tag reads to work schedules to discover abuse? If you're not scheduled to work on a Saturday, and your tag gets read that day, especially at a plaza you normally wouldn't pass through to get to work, it would be a sure sign.
I was about to post that no agency would likely think it's worth it to pay someone to check for that sort of thing. But then I realized that my company used to pay me to do almost the exact same thing (checking for company vehicle use when off the clock).
True, but I think the service center businesses lease from KTA, don't they? I imagine it would be far more trouble to audit those employees' schedules than it would be worth, considering the most they could probably do is assess a toll after the fact, which they may play hell actually collecting on from a McDonald's employee.
I imagine far stricter auditing would take place of actual KTA employees.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 10, 2020, 11:45:18 PM
True, but I think the service center businesses lease from KTA, don't they? I imagine it would be far more trouble to audit those employees' schedules than it would be worth, considering the most they could probably do is assess a toll after the fact, which they may play hell actually collecting on from a McDonald's employee.
I imagine far stricter auditing would take place of actual KTA employees.
Exactly right. In fact, the reason I no longer do this sort of thing at work is that our field techs switched from being employees to being contractors. For a while, even though there was no longer any time clock to check against, I at least checked for vehicle usage on
days off. But eventually keeping up on vehicle tracking stopped being worth it to the company for field techs who are technically their own individual companies.
Quote from: kphoger on June 11, 2020, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 10, 2020, 11:45:18 PM
True, but I think the service center businesses lease from KTA, don't they? I imagine it would be far more trouble to audit those employees' schedules than it would be worth, considering the most they could probably do is assess a toll after the fact, which they may play hell actually collecting on from a McDonald's employee.
I imagine far stricter auditing would take place of actual KTA employees.
Exactly right. In fact, the reason I no longer do this sort of thing at work is that our field techs switched from being employees to being contractors. For a while, even though there was no longer any time clock to check against, I at least checked for vehicle usage on days off. But eventually keeping up on vehicle tracking stopped being worth it to the company for field techs who are technically their own individual companies.
The Commonwealth of Kentucky has installed GPS units in its vehicles. They track both vehicle location and speed. If you drive a certain amount over the speed limit, it automatically flags a notification to a supervisor. This system was used to discipline a state employee who drove his work vehicle out of the assigned service area (to another county outside his highway district) to visit a female other than his wife.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 11, 2020, 04:47:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 11, 2020, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 10, 2020, 11:45:18 PM
True, but I think the service center businesses lease from KTA, don't they? I imagine it would be far more trouble to audit those employees' schedules than it would be worth, considering the most they could probably do is assess a toll after the fact, which they may play hell actually collecting on from a McDonald's employee.
I imagine far stricter auditing would take place of actual KTA employees.
Exactly right. In fact, the reason I no longer do this sort of thing at work is that our field techs switched from being employees to being contractors. For a while, even though there was no longer any time clock to check against, I at least checked for vehicle usage on days off. But eventually keeping up on vehicle tracking stopped being worth it to the company for field techs who are technically their own individual companies.
The Commonwealth of Kentucky has installed GPS units in its vehicles. They track both vehicle location and speed. If you drive a certain amount over the speed limit, it automatically flags a notification to a supervisor. This system was used to discipline a state employee who drove his work vehicle out of the assigned service area (to another county outside his highway district) to visit a female other than his wife.
My favorite incident was when I caught an OKC tech having gone home, grabbed his fishing gear, and headed to the lake for an hour and a half–all using his company vehicle, clocked in, and statused at a customer's house.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 11, 2020, 04:47:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 11, 2020, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 10, 2020, 11:45:18 PM
True, but I think the service center businesses lease from KTA, don't they? I imagine it would be far more trouble to audit those employees' schedules than it would be worth, considering the most they could probably do is assess a toll after the fact, which they may play hell actually collecting on from a McDonald's employee.
I imagine far stricter auditing would take place of actual KTA employees.
Exactly right. In fact, the reason I no longer do this sort of thing at work is that our field techs switched from being employees to being contractors. For a while, even though there was no longer any time clock to check against, I at least checked for vehicle usage on days off. But eventually keeping up on vehicle tracking stopped being worth it to the company for field techs who are technically their own individual companies.
The Commonwealth of Kentucky has installed GPS units in its vehicles. They track both vehicle location and speed. If you drive a certain amount over the speed limit, it automatically flags a notification to a supervisor. This system was used to discipline a state employee who drove his work vehicle out of the assigned service area (to another county outside his highway district) to visit a female other than his wife.
NYSDOT does the same. Someone once got a call asking why they hadn't turned in the keys and paperwork yet because they could see from the GPS that the vehicle had been in the parking lot for a while.