As someone who loves the interstate highway system and how it works as a network rather than just a bunch of corridors, one of the things I love about living near Albany is how well Albany is served by the interstate system. Of the six major directions, five of them are interstates - I-90 to Rochester/Buffalo/Syracuse, I-90 to Springfield/Boston, I-87 to NYC, I-87 to Montréal, and I-88 to Binghamton. The one that isn't is NY 7 to Bennington. Moreover, most of the rest of the country that is on the interstate system is possible to get to by interstate without going out of one's way - the major exceptions being Vermont and Rhode Island (and the latter isn't excruciatingly far out of the way by I-495, and at least MA/RI 146 is mostly freeway and four-lane divided throughout).
Contrast this to Rochester, which does function this way within NY, but doesn't with respect to the rest of the country since the US 15 corridor is not an interstate across PA and MD, resulting in the entire Mid-Atlantic and much of the Southeast being inaccessible without significant mileage on non-interstates or going way out of the way.
Syracuse would seem to fit, depending on whether you desire to include interstate equivalents in Canada and how much you'd penalize it for the non-freeway portion of ON 137... and, of course, that its own freeway system means you're likely to have to pass through and non-interstate between two interstates just to get around the metro area even before you leave it, a problem that will get even worse when I-81 is removed.
I wonder how many other places there are that fit so well into the system.
Boston is well served.
You've got I-90 going towards Albany and points west, I-95 to NH / Maine, I-95 towards Providence / NYC, I-93 towards NH. The only direction not served is southeast, where MA 3 does a good job serving.
Indianapolis. The under construction portion of I-69 can be bypassed using I-70, I-57, and I-55. After I-69 is completed I really only see two corridors standing out that haven't been built out from Indianapolis: US 31 up to South Bend (kind of being slowly built), and a diagonal towards Cleveland, OH (the latter of which is currently served by using I-70 and I-71).
How far do we stretch city?
The Washington DC area can be reached directly via I-95 (and you can go into the center of the city via I-395, through its east side via I-295, or around it entirely via I-495). I-270 brings you into DC from I-70, which connects to the Midwest to the District. I-66 connects DC to I-81 and points north and south along the Appalachians. I-97 also starts and ends in the DC area but it's best we avoid talking about that one.
We need an outer beltway for me to be satisfied with the DC area freeway system.
Quote from: vdeane on June 08, 2020, 09:02:05 PM
The one that isn't is NY 7 to Bennington.
That's an annoying one, because of that slow stretch right through the heart of Troy.
I wonder if an interstate along the NY 7/VT 9 corridor has ever been proposed. That's definitely the missing link that would give Albany almost perfect connectivity.
Quote from: vdeane on June 08, 2020, 09:02:05 PM
Contrast this to Rochester, which does function this way within NY, but doesn't with respect to the rest of the country since the US 15 corridor is not an interstate across PA and MD, resulting in the entire Mid-Atlantic and much of the Southeast being inaccessible without significant mileage on non-interstates or going way out of the way.
If/when the CSVT is ever complete, I'll actually have very few complaints about the US 15 corridor. Sure, you've got that long non-freeway stretch along the Susquehanna, and I-180 adds some extra mileage, but other than that, getting from Rochester to Harrisburg (and Baltimore, etc.) is really not that bad. I don't care so much about the lack of an interstate designation per se, as long the route is stoplight-free and expressway grade or better (which it will be).
I do think I-390 would take on much greater significance as a 2-di instead of a 3-di. I-83 would have been perfect, but I'd settle for an I-99 extension to get another 2-di to the Rochester area.
Quote from: vdeane on June 08, 2020, 09:02:05 PM
I wonder how many other places there are that fit so well into the system.
Scranton is actually quite similar to Albany, with 5 major directions served by the interstate system.
US 6 westbound appears at first to be the exception, but I-81 to I-86 is actually faster for most trips in that direction, even places as nearby as Elmira and Sayre. I would say the actual missing connection is west/southwest to Williamsport. I'm surprised better connectivity between Scranton and Williamsport hasn't come up here as a complaint, or in the fictional board, more often.
Here's a partial list of what I guess we could call textbook examples (interstates in 6 or more directions):
Indianapolis (8), Chicago (7), Birmingham (6-7)*, Dallas-Fort Worth (6), Oklahoma City (6), Kansas City (6), St. Louis (6), Nashville (6), and Atlanta (6).
*Depending on how you account for the extremely long I-20/I-59 mutiplex.
I know it's bias talking, but I gotta give a nod to Chicago. Even if the interstates entering/leaving the city don't have direct access to other parts of the country, they have easy access to the nearby interstates that do.
I-65 (via I-80/94 or the quicker, more expensive Skyway/Toll Road): access to the Southeast
I-90: access to Ohio, upstate New York, and Boston (eastbound); access to the upper Rockies and the Pacific Northwest (westbound)
I-80: same with I-90 until Cleveland, then access to New York City (skipping the Pennsylvania and New Jersey Turnpikes, eastbound); central plains, major mountain cities and San Francisco (westbound). Can be accessed with Interstates 90, 94, 57, 55, 355, and even 88.
I-57: access to the Mid-South, with Little Rock in future plans
I-55: access to St.Louis, Memphis, and New Orleans
I-94: the way to Michigan and Canada (east), while accessing Milwaukee, the Twin Cities and Fargo as an alternative to I-90 (westbound)
I-88 (via I-290 or I-294): stays in state but provide access to the west suburbs and the network of Interstates in the Quad Cities (80, 280, and 74).
I also like the intricacies of the 3dis, which give quick access to the mainlines.
Seattle. Can't really think of any other directions that are needed.
Quote from: webny99 on June 08, 2020, 10:53:03 PM
Scranton is actually quite similar to Albany, with 5 major directions served by the interstate system.
US 6 westbound appears at first to be the exception, but I-81 to I-86 is actually faster for most trips in that direction, even places as nearby as Elmira and Sayre. I would say the actual missing connection is west/southwest to Williamsport. I'm surprised better connectivity between Scranton and Williamsport hasn't come up here as a complaint, or in the fictional board, more often.
Google says that I-81/I-80/I-180 is less than five minutes longer than PA 118, so close enough.
KC and St. Louis are über-important crossroads, both having 4 2dis within city limits.
San Antonio, TX.
I-10 East - Houston, Gulf Coast, connections to other interstates along the East Coast.
I-10 West - El Paso, points west. Not the best connections to the northwest.
I-35 North - Austin, Dallas-Fort Worth, points north/northeast, connections to other interstates in the Midwest.
I-35 South - Laredo and Mexico
I-37 South - Corpus Christi, connections to US-281 and US-77 to the Rio Grande Valley.
No major connections that are screaming to be built - such as Houston with an Austin and southwest / northeast connection (I-69). Well served to many major metros on the interstate system with good connections to other highways. The exception is the northwest which doesn't have interstate connections from any of the three Texas triangle metros.
Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2020, 01:08:19 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 08, 2020, 10:53:03 PM
... I would say the actual missing connection is west/southwest to Williamsport. I'm surprised better connectivity between Scranton and Williamsport hasn't come up here as a complaint, or in the fictional board, more often.
Google says that I-81/I-80/I-180 is less than five minutes longer than PA 118, so close enough.
Hmmm. I could have sworn it was longer than that when I checked last night.
I guess it's a Rochester-Niagara Falls type situation where the freeway adds quite a bit of mileage and creates a U-shaped routing, but still manages to be just as fast.
Quote from: webny99 on June 09, 2020, 03:02:51 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2020, 01:08:19 PM
Google says that I-81/I-80/I-180 is less than five minutes longer than PA 118, so close enough.
Hmmm. I could have sworn it was longer than that when I checked last night.
Who's saying it wasn't longer last night? Google Maps estimates are based on current traffic.
Quote from: kphoger on June 09, 2020, 03:08:07 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 09, 2020, 03:02:51 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2020, 01:08:19 PM
Google says that I-81/I-80/I-180 is less than five minutes longer than PA 118, so close enough.
Hmmm. I could have sworn it was longer than that when I checked last night.
Who's saying it wasn't longer last night? Google Maps estimates are based on current traffic.
Well, of course, but I don't recall any significant traffic (which would have displayed in orange/red), and I would have thought that if anything, the times would have been more comparable in the late evening than at mid-day. Not that it really matters. She's right - it's close enough either way.
For its size, I'd say Little Rock is very well served by 2.5 2-DI's and lots of 3DI's.
2DI's:
I-30
I-40
Future I-57
3DI's:
I-430
I-530
I-630
I-440
And Northwest Arkansas is just recently getting it's first one, despite being only 27 places below LR in the MSA listings.
Detroit.
Interstate access to/from the south, west, northwest, and north. Full bypass on the north side (I-696) and a partial bypass of the west side (I-275), the latter of which combines with two other freeways to form a full bypass. I-94 provides access to all points west via interstate without going out of the way; same with I-75 to all points south and east. (I don't deduct points for Lake Erie being in the way or the hopeless obsolescence of I-94 through downtown.)
Quote from: webny99 on June 09, 2020, 03:02:51 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2020, 01:08:19 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 08, 2020, 10:53:03 PM
... I would say the actual missing connection is west/southwest to Williamsport. I'm surprised better connectivity between Scranton and Williamsport hasn't come up here as a complaint, or in the fictional board, more often.
Google says that I-81/I-80/I-180 is less than five minutes longer than PA 118, so close enough.
Hmmm. I could have sworn it was longer than that when I checked last night.
I guess it's a Rochester-Niagara Falls type situation where the freeway adds quite a bit of mileage and creates a U-shaped routing, but still manages to be just as fast.
PA 118 is a fun and beautiful road. Make a stop at the Red Rock Scoop!
Cleveland is well-served. I-90 East to Buffalo/Canadian Border, I-71 to Columbus and Cincinnati, I-77 to Charleston and points south, I-80/Turnpike east to Pittsburgh/New York, I-80-90/Turnpike west to Chicago, I-480 is a good outer belt connecting to the Turnpike at both ends. I-271 is a good road connecting I-71, I-77, and I-480 with I-90 east of Cleveland. And the I-490 connector provides the missing movements from EB I-90 to SB I-77 and vice-versa.
Quote from: zzcarp on June 09, 2020, 08:39:25 PM
Cleveland is well-served. I-90 East to Buffalo/Canadian Border, I-71 to Columbus and Cincinnati, I-77 to Charleston and points south, I-80/Turnpike east to Pittsburgh/New York, I-80-90/Turnpike west to Chicago, I-480 is a good outer belt connecting to the Turnpike at both ends. I-271 is a good road connecting I-71, I-77, and I-480 with I-90 east of Cleveland. And the I-490 connector provides the missing movements from EB I-90 to SB I-77 and vice-versa.
Cleveland to Toronto is not direct.
Quote from: 1 on June 09, 2020, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: zzcarp on June 09, 2020, 08:39:25 PM
Cleveland is well-served. I-90 East to Buffalo/Canadian Border, I-71 to Columbus and Cincinnati, I-77 to Charleston and points south, I-80/Turnpike east to Pittsburgh/New York, I-80-90/Turnpike west to Chicago, I-480 is a good outer belt connecting to the Turnpike at both ends. I-271 is a good road connecting I-71, I-77, and I-480 with I-90 east of Cleveland. And the I-490 connector provides the missing movements from EB I-90 to SB I-77 and vice-versa.
Cleveland to Toronto is not direct.
I don't see where he mentioned anything about Toronto. But in any case, the reason Cleveland-Toronto is not direct is because Lake Erie is in the way, not because of the lack of freeways. The current route (I-90 - I-190 - QEW) is all freeway except for the Peace Bridge and associated connections to I-190.
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 08, 2020, 10:33:59 PM
Indianapolis. The under construction portion of I-69 can be bypassed using I-70, I-57, and I-55. After I-69 is completed I really only see two corridors standing out that haven't been built out from Indianapolis: US 31 up to South Bend (kind of being slowly built), and a diagonal towards Cleveland, OH (the latter of which is currently served by using I-70 and I-71).
You could make a case that the NE diagonal for Indy is I-69 to Ft Wayne since it does goe northeast to Muncie first.
Milwaukee is pretty well served.
I-41 North: Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Appleton, Green Bay and eventually the UP of Michigan.
I-41 South/I-94 East: Chicago and points south, east and southeast.
I-43 North: Sheboygan, Manitowoc and Green Bay
I-43 South: Beloit and towards Iowa to San Francisco via I-39, I-88 & I-80. Also St Louis, Texas and New Orleans via I-39 and I-44 or I-55.
I-94 West: Madison, Minneapolis/St Paul and the Pacific Northwest.
STL was already mentioned but it feels very overserved for it's current size; the plans were drawn up when STL was far more important than it is now. That does leave us with several easy routes out of town, though.
Quote from: STLmapboy on June 12, 2020, 06:56:58 PM
STL was already mentioned but it feels very overserved for it's current size; the plans were drawn up when STL was far more important than it is now. That does leave us with several easy routes out of town, though.
Which routes do you think are not needed?
All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates. Chicago in particular has five inside its inner beltway (I-294), and ten in total if you count Rockford and Beloit WI as part of the Chicago area.
Quote from: thspfc on June 12, 2020, 09:11:37 PM
All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates.
Except for St. Cloud, MN, and Kokomo, IN.
Quote from: webny99 on June 12, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 12, 2020, 09:11:37 PM
All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates.
Except for St. Cloud, MN, and Kokomo, IN.
Those aren't large metropolitan areas.
Quote from: The Nature BoyWe need an outer beltway for me to be satisfied with the DC area freeway system.
Agreed - or at least an outer "half belt" to get around downtown DC. The current beltway gets seriously congested, with no straightforward alternate route. It would probably be more realistic to build an outer belt to the west, though with everything built up now I don't think the land could be acquired.
Quote from: M3100 on June 13, 2020, 12:16:59 AM
Quote from: The Nature BoyWe need an outer beltway for me to be satisfied with the DC area freeway system.
Agreed - or at least an outer "half belt" to get around downtown DC. The current beltway gets seriously congested, with no straightforward alternate route. It would probably be more realistic to build an outer belt to the west, though with everything built up now I don't think the land could be acquired.
Eastern route along VA-207 and US-301 between I-95 at Ruther Glen to US-50 / I-97 near Annapolis. Widen US-50 / US-301 to 8 lanes including a new / third Chesapeake Bay Bridge, and upgrade US-301 to interstate standards to DE-1.
Quote from: webny99 on June 12, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 12, 2020, 09:11:37 PM
All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates.
Except for St. Cloud, MN, and Kokomo, IN.
St. Cloud is served by I-94. There are many cities its size that do not have any Interstates near them. As for Kokomo, we'll see if that US-31 corridor ever becomes an Interstate.
Quote from: M3100 on June 13, 2020, 12:16:59 AM
It would probably be more realistic to build an outer belt to the west, though with everything built up now I don't think the land could be acquired.
Preferably one that gets far enough to reach Dulles International Airport.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 12, 2020, 11:21:22 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 12, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 12, 2020, 09:11:37 PM
All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates.
Except for St. Cloud, MN, and Kokomo, IN.
Those aren't large metropolitan areas.
Quote from: thspfc on June 13, 2020, 10:51:51 AM
St. Cloud is served by I-94. There are many cities its size that do not have any Interstates near them. As for Kokomo, we'll see if that US-31 corridor ever becomes an Interstate.
Yes, but they are certainly included among "all Midwestern cities", no?
As far as St. Cloud, the reason I included it is because it isn't really served all that well by I-94. There are connections, but not very good ones. To go westbound, you have to go through St. Joseph on surface streets, and to go eastbound, you have to use surface streets too, and even then sometimes US 10 is faster. You would never know from driving along I-94 that you were anywhere near St. Cloud. There's not even any development near the highway except for a little bit near Exit 171.
Quote from: webny99 on June 13, 2020, 01:20:14 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 12, 2020, 11:21:22 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 12, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 12, 2020, 09:11:37 PM
All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates.
Except for St. Cloud, MN, and Kokomo, IN.
Those aren't large metropolitan areas.
Quote from: thspfc on June 13, 2020, 10:51:51 AM
St. Cloud is served by I-94. There are many cities its size that do not have any Interstates near them. As for Kokomo, we'll see if that US-31 corridor ever becomes an Interstate.
Yes, but they are certainly included among "all Midwestern cities", no?
As far as St. Cloud, the reason I included it is because it isn't really served all that well by I-94. There are connections, but not very good ones. To go westbound, you have to go through St. Joseph on surface streets, and to go eastbound, you have to use surface streets too, and even then sometimes US 10 is faster. You would never know from driving along I-94 that you were anywhere near St. Cloud. There's not even any development near the highway except for a little bit near Exit 171.
Are we forgetting that MN-15 is a 65 mph freeway between Downtown and I-94?
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 13, 2020, 01:34:42 PM
Are we forgetting that MN-15 is a 65 mph freeway between Downtown and I-94?
The freeway ends about 2 miles west of downtown, and it's not the preferred route to get to either direction of I-94. Google Maps says it's 5 minutes longer to get to I-94 EB, and similar time-wise to get to I-94 WB (because of St. Joseph), but almost 5
miles longer. That is not great connectivity by any stretch of the imagination.
Quote from: webny99 on June 13, 2020, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 13, 2020, 01:34:42 PM
Are we forgetting that MN-15 is a 65 mph freeway between Downtown and I-94?
The freeway ends about 2 miles west of downtown, and it's not the preferred route to get to either direction of I-94. Google Maps says it's 5 minutes longer to get to I-94 EB, and similar time-wise to get to I-94 WB (because of St. Joseph), but almost 5 miles longer. That is not great connectivity by any stretch of the imagination.
Assuming you're coming from Downtown. Anywhere in the central area has easy access to the freeway.
Bottom line is that St. Cloud is served by I-94. It doesn't ride up along Downtown, but it still provides access to/from the area to the rest of the system.
OK, let's just say it's a minimum of 10 minutes to get to the interstate, and possibly as much as 20, depending on where you start and which direction you're going. That does not meet my definition of "served", but that's just my opinion. Even if MN 15 was an interstate it might be a different story.
Quote from: webny99 on June 13, 2020, 01:48:47 PM
OK, let's just say it's a minimum of 10 minutes to get to the interstate, and possibly as much as 20, depending on where you start and which direction you're going. That does not meet my definition of "served", but that's just my opinion. Even if MN 15 was an interstate it might be a different story.
The urban area extends out to I-94. It's served by I-94.
Under your definition, Fayetteville, NC (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0098484,-78.8101755,33850m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1) and Wilmington, NC (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.21421,-77.8646208,40642m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1) would not be served by I-95 and I-40 respectively, even though the latter was built specifically with the intent to connect with Wilmington despite not hugging Downtown.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 13, 2020, 04:37:47 PM
The urban area extends out to I-94. It's served by I-94.
Barely, if you use your imagination. And not the city - I thought we were talking about the city.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 13, 2020, 04:37:47 PM
Under your definition, Fayetteville, NC (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0098484,-78.8101755,33850m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1) and Wilmington, NC (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.21421,-77.8646208,40642m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1) would not be served by I-95 and I-40 respectively, even though the latter was built specifically with the intent to connect with Wilmington despite not hugging Downtown.
I never said what my definition was, only that it doesn't include St. Cloud.
Fayetteville is absolutely served by the interstate system. It's served by I-295 and I-95 Business, but not by I-95 itself. Wilmington I would say, yes, it is served by I-40, because I-40 runs
towards downtown and ends in close proximity to downtown. You also have I-140.
Those are different situations to St. Cloud, where there are no 3dis, and I-94 would never be used for any trips
within the metro area. In fact, I would say that's a defining characteristic of whether a place is "served" by the interstate system or not. If people are using interstate for trips within the metro area, then it is served. The more this occurs, the closer you get to "
well-served", which is what this topic was originally supposed to be about.
Quote from: webny99 on June 13, 2020, 05:57:13 PM
I never said what my definition was, only that it doesn't include St. Cloud.
Fayetteville is absolutely served by the interstate system. It's served by I-295 and I-95 Business, but not by I-95 itself. Wilmington I would say, yes, it is served by I-40, because I-40 runs towards downtown and ends in close proximity to downtown. You also have I-140.
I-95 Business is not an interstate highway.
I-295 and I-140 are relatively new interstates. Before 2000, only I-95 and I-40 respectively served them.
I-40 would not be used for local trips unless heading to the outskirts of the metro.
Quote
Those are different situations to St. Cloud, where there are no 3dis, and I-94 would never be used for any trips within the metro area. In fact, I would say that's a defining characteristic of whether a place is "served" by the interstate system or not. If people are using interstate for trips within the metro area, then it is served. The more this occurs, the closer you get to "well-served", which is what this topic was originally supposed to be about.
I interpreted the OP as connections to the rest of the system. A metro like Indianapolis that has an interstate spoke to the northeast, east, southeast, south (future), west, southwest, and northwest is well-served, whereas a metro like Hampton Roads only has one spoke to the northwest, and lacks connections south, southwest, and northeast, and is underserved. Not necessarily how it runs in the area itself. The Hampton Roads metro has good connections internally, though ultimately merges into a single interstate out one direction, and many arterial highways to reach the rest of the system.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 13, 2020, 06:14:55 PM
I interpreted the OP as connections to the rest of the system. ... Not necessarily how it runs in the area itself.
Yeah, no disagreement there, but the area itself at least has to have
some interstates. If you have to go out of your way to even get to an interstate, then it's not really well-served.
Quote from: webny99 on June 14, 2020, 01:57:08 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 13, 2020, 06:14:55 PM
I interpreted the OP as connections to the rest of the system. ... Not necessarily how it runs in the area itself.
Yeah, no disagreement there, but the area itself at least has to have some interstates. If you have to go out of your way to even get to an interstate, then it's not really well-served.
Less than 10 miles is not out of the way. Not to mention, a freeway connects to the urban area from I-94, even if it's not directly riding up to Downtown.
Having to drive 70 miles from Hampton Roads to I-95 South or 100 miles to I-85 South along US-58 is out of the way and not well served.
Not to drag up St. Cloud again, but as I said earlier, we're talking about the actual interstate system, not just all freeways. If MN 15 was a 3di maybe I'd think differently.
I agree, the Hampton Roads area is not particularly well-served. An interstate along the general US 58 corridor, or otherwise heading south/south-west providing better connectivity to the South, would change that.
Quote from: webny99 on June 14, 2020, 05:23:04 PM
I agree, the Hampton Roads area is not particularly well-served. An interstate along the general US 58 corridor, or otherwise heading south/south-west providing better connectivity to the South, would change that.
I-87 is planned along US-17 and US-64 to Raleigh in the future, but that won't be until at least 2045.
Quote from: webny99 on June 13, 2020, 01:20:14 PM
As far as St. Cloud, the reason I included it is because it isn't really served all that well by I-94. There are connections, but not very good ones. To go westbound, you have to go through St. Joseph on surface streets, and to go eastbound, you have to use surface streets too, and even then sometimes US 10 is faster. You would never know from driving along I-94 that you were anywhere near St. Cloud. There's not even any development near the highway except for a little bit near Exit 171.
I've stayed at the HIE at Exit 171. While it is quite a way from St Cloud itself, the area doesn't really feel disconnected from the city center to me. Far away yes, but under-served no. The only other time I've stayed in St Cloud, I was coming in from Princeton and therefore wasn't using I-94.
I'm curious to know what the pre-Interstate routing of US-52 was. If it was through downtown St Cloud, then I'd say I-94 was purposely designed as a bypass.
I live in St. Cloud, but that doesn't always mean this board might like my answer :bigass: A city the size of St. Cloud has an interstate serving it, although all the exits converge to the Waite Park-St. Cloud border. That's where a lot of commercial stuff is (jct Hwy. 15 and 23), but it's not the center. And, Hwy. 15 is merely expressway through town with lights at nearly every intersection (and given St. Cloud's classic light timing, you stop at every one). St. Cloud also is along US 10 towards lake country (Brainerd), but has two traffic lights in town. The city is well served by state highways, as MN 23 is one of the few northeast-southwest roads in central and southern Minnesota. Still, you could argue that Rochester, a bigger city and too far from Minneapolis-St. Paul to be considered an exurb, has more limited service from I-90.
Quote from: lakewobegon on June 15, 2020, 12:36:02 PM
And, Hwy. 15 is merely expressway through town with lights at nearly every intersection (and given St. Cloud's classic light timing, you stop at every one).
I mentioned MN-15 since between I-94 and 2nd St (intersection before MN-23), the highway is built to full interstate standards and is posted at 65 mph. It's not an interstate highway, but it's still a freeway that functions as such.
Quote from: lakewobegon on June 15, 2020, 12:36:02 PM
Still, you could argue that Rochester, a bigger city and too far from Minneapolis-St. Paul to be considered an exurb, has more limited service from I-90.
US-52 is built to full interstate standards and is posted at 65 mph between Rochester and I-90 to the east, with the exception of the I-90 interchange itself which has intersections with the ramps. It's not an interstate highway, but it's still a freeway that functions as such.
Los Angeles definitely qualifies. You can take I-5 north to Sacramento/San Francisco (via I-580) or south to San Diego; I-10 east to Phoenix; and (in nearby San Bernardino) I-15 north to Las Vegas or south to San Diego. Plus there are many spurs to cover the area as well.
Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2020, 12:01:06 PM
I'm curious to know what the pre-Interstate routing of US-52 was. If it was through downtown St Cloud, then I'd say I-94 was purposely designed as a bypass.
Westbound piggybacked along MN 23 after leaving US 10, then left 23 at the MN 15 intersection where 23/75 bumps today. If anything is really needed in St. Cloud, it's improving the 15-23-75 junctions.
Additionally, some thoughts on St. Cloud.
1. It wasn't even half its size 50 years ago, so putting 94 through it probably wasn't a consideration or a need.
2. I think the current setup suits it fine. It has two high-speed E-W routes (well, NW-SE) that keep the substantial amounts of through traffic out of the city. It also has four-lane expressway access from the west via County 75 and southwest from MN 23. I don't get the "poorly served" unless we're strictly speaking of how 94 is a little ways out.