AASHTO recently had a Spring Meeting (May 26) that was virtual, do we know what announcements came from it yet?
I've looked a few times this month and haven't seen anything yet. https://route.transportation.org/past-meetings/
Almost another month since the meeting and still nothing posted. Does anyone here have AASHTO connections they could contact to inquire about what was decided or about getting the website updated?
Bob,
Here is the contact information:
Janae Dawkins
Engineering Program Specialist
AASHTO logo_int_K_bmp (2)
American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials
555 12th Street NW, Suite 1000, Washington, DC 20001.
Tel: (202) 624-7799 │ E-mail: jdawkins@aashto.org
https://route.transportation.org/ has the next meeting as happening in November - yet we still don't have the Spring meeting results.
Any news on this?
The results have been posted on Wikipedia at Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Resources/AASHTO minutes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_U.S._Roads/Resources/AASHTO_minutes). Unfortunately, the copy of the minutes obtained by email and used to post those results didn't have any detail on the individual applications.
So changes have been made to the following routes, with my guesses about to what may happened to them:
US 67 IL (relocation)
US 30 IA (relocation)
I-680 IA (truncation. I suspect they forgot to officially truncate it when creating I-880 last year)
I-295 NC (addition)
USBR 50 CA (addition)
USBR 21 KY (addition)
USBR 35 MI (relocation)
USBR 230 WI (addition)
USBR 30 WI (addition)
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on September 20, 2020, 05:57:30 AM
So changes have been made to the following routes, with my guesses about to what may happened to them:
US 67 IL (relocation)
Relocation for the Deli Bypass near Jerseyville?
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on September 20, 2020, 05:57:30 AMUS 30 IA (relocation)
Did Iowa previously apply for relocating US 30 onto the bypass for Mt. Vernon? If this is something else that is not a minor relocation I am really curious as to what.
The original file from AASHTO: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9tmgrv26plh0uir/Spring%202020%20Report_USRN%20Ballot%20Results%20and%20Contingencies.pdf?dl=0
Mount Vernon-Lisbon bypass was in the May 2019 meeting.
This could apply to the new four-lane in Tama County. The soon-to-be-former two-lane is right beside the new road, but will not be part of it, so it's possible an official relocation is needed.
(I'm guessing that traffic will move H2H in the future westbound lanes over the winter, and in spring the final connections will be made and the old road removed.)
The Special Committee on US Route Numbering supposedly met virtually sometime the week of November 9-13. Perhaps time to start a new AASHTO Fall 2020 thread? Nothing new yet on the Wikipedia page.
Info on the bike route changes:
"In Kentucky, an agreement was reached to re-route USBR 21 through the Cumberland Gap National Park tunnel." (http://www.adventurecycling.org/members/news/behind-the-scenes-3-states-working-on-the-usbrs/) (it had gone west from Middlesboro on KY 74)
USBR 30 and 230 (http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/travel/bike/bike-maps/usbr.aspx)
USBR 35: apparently a minor change in Suttons Bay (http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89823056)
USBR 50: http://ridewithgps.com/routes/32300248 http://ridewithgps.com/routes/32300255
The following USBR changes were made in December 2020:
DC USBR 1 created
MD USBR 201 created
NY USBR 11 created
WV USBR 11 created
ND USBR 30 created
and possibly some realignments.
Quote from: NE2 on January 04, 2021, 03:55:20 PM
The following USBR changes were made in December 2020:
DC USBR 1 created
MD USBR 201 created
NY USBR 11 created
WV USBR 11 created
ND USBR 30 created
and possibly some realignments.
Just curious, did they post the results from the meeting online somewhere? I haven't had any luck finding them. Thanks in advance.
Quote from: bulldog1979 on September 20, 2020, 05:45:19 AM
The results have been posted on Wikipedia at Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Resources/AASHTO minutes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_U.S._Roads/Resources/AASHTO_minutes). Unfortunately, the copy of the minutes obtained by email and used to post those results didn't have any detail on the individual applications.
Results for November 2020 have been posted on the link above, but there's no citation and no links to the applications (just the Wikipedia entries for each route listed). If the results are accurate, NC has applied for a change for US 70 and US 258, but no application for I-885 or any other interstate. There are also entries for an I-195 in DC, along with I-395. There is no updated listing on the AASHTO USRN website.
Quote from: bob7374 on January 05, 2021, 11:59:13 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on September 20, 2020, 05:45:19 AM
The results have been posted on Wikipedia at Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Resources/AASHTO minutes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_U.S._Roads/Resources/AASHTO_minutes). Unfortunately, the copy of the minutes obtained by email and used to post those results didn't have any detail on the individual applications.
Results for November 2020 have been posted on the link above, but there's no citation and no links to the applications (just the Wikipedia entries for each route listed). If the results are accurate, NC has applied for a change for US 70 and US 258, but no application for I-885 or any other interstate. There are also entries for an I-195 in DC, along with I-395. There is no updated listing on the AASHTO USRN website.
Any idea where a DC I-195 fits in? My guess would be the Center Leg portion of I-395. Not sure why they would feel it necessary to change the designation.
Of course without seeing the actual report we're only relying on Wikipedia...
All of the changes involving US Routes are likely relocations. There are no other possible explanations.
I have no clue what PA would be doing with US 13.
Yes on 67 Delhi bypass. Funded and under construction. Looks like reconstruct through Jerseyville not bypass. Why would you spend 25 million through town and 150 million on a bypass?
Quote from: Crown Victoria on January 06, 2021, 09:03:41 AM
Any idea where a DC I-195 fits in? My guess would be the Center Leg portion of I-395. Not sure why they would feel it necessary to change the designation.
They probably went through the records and realized the Center Leg was renumbered I-195 in 1984 and never changed back, so now it's been fixed.
Does anyone know why the USRN website is not being updated? Until a year or two ago, about a week after each time the committee met, we'd have the application decision document available for public download. Now, we have to rely on Wikipedia and maybe getting a link on this board. It seems like that public information should be easier to find.
Quote from: zzcarp on January 07, 2021, 08:44:36 AM
Does anyone know why the USRN website is not being updated? Until a year or two ago, about a week after each time the committee met, we'd have the application decision document available for public download. Now, we have to rely on Wikipedia and maybe getting a link on this board. It seems like that public information should be easier to find.
Well, what about the world changed about a year ago? Say, last March?
^ COVID should not have impacted their ability to update the website, since USRN committee documents had gone digital long before then.
As to zzcarp's question, it should be noted that website updates to committee documents became far less often and more haphazard after Marty Vitalie (who was the long-running committee secretary) retired.
"Should not have" does not mean "didn't". Covid has caused a lot of stuff that "shouldn't" be impacted to be impacted, because someone in another part of an organization leaves/dies/goes into quarantine, so personnel get shifted around to cover the more important stuff, and now the less important stuff is getting neglected. Or the workflow changes because now everyone's working from home, and some part of the old way of doing things doesn't get included in the new way of doing things. Or whatever.
Hell, covid has impacted me taking the trash out, because I straight up forget when the recycling truck comes by (used to be the same day I got paid, so it was easy to remember, now I don't get paid on those days, so I forget to take it out).
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 07, 2021, 02:46:57 PM
"Should not have" does not mean "didn't". Covid has caused a lot of stuff that "shouldn't" be impacted to be impacted, because someone in another part of an organization leaves/dies/goes into quarantine, so personnel get shifted around to cover the more important stuff, and now the less important stuff is getting neglected. Or the workflow changes because now everyone's working from home, and some part of the old way of doing things doesn't get included in the new way of doing things. Or whatever.
Hell, covid has impacted me taking the trash out, because I straight up forget when the recycling truck comes by (used to be the same day I got paid, so it was easy to remember, now I don't get paid on those days, so I forget to take it out).
I get COVID causing some delays personally. I've set a reminder on my phone to remind me of garbage/recycling day is because it's easy to forget. Though, it seems these electronic files are not large and can be easily uploaded.
Quote from: froggie on January 07, 2021, 12:29:31 PM
^ COVID should not have impacted their ability to update the website, since USRN committee documents had gone digital long before then.
As to zzcarp's question, it should be noted that website updates to committee documents became far less often and more haphazard after Marty Vitalie (who was the long-running committee secretary) retired.
Thanks, Froggie. That makes sense that it's not being done because of an institutional change due to retiring. I did notice the website stop being consistently updated a couple of years ago (definitely before COVID). It's too bad since before I joined this board, I looked forward to reading the minutes from the two meetings per year as they were nearly the only information I could get on US/Interstate route changes.
Quote from: zzcarp on January 08, 2021, 01:52:33 AM
I get COVID causing some delays personally. I've set a reminder on my phone to remind me of garbage/recycling day is because it's easy to forget. Though, it seems these electronic files are not large and can be easily uploaded.
Right. In large organizations like this, it's not so much how easy it is
technically to conduct the upload–it could be made no harder than dropping a file in a folder that gets periodically synced to the website, if they wanted it to be. The difficulty is more institutional–does the right person have access to the necessary files, and is there sufficient management emphasis on creating them and making them public in a timely manner?
Covid has caused a lot of the normal management priorities in every organization to get scrambled and something like this is exactly the sort of thing that could easily slip through the cracks. If the secretary responsible for creating the reports now works from home and doesn't have easy access to the webserver because they're now on the wrong side of a firewall, for instance, that is a duty that could easily become too inconvenient to keep up on when they may have many additional duties pushed onto them due to workforce shortages and don't have the spare time to push management and IT to make access easier.
^ In this case, Scott, I disagree with you regarding COVID's impact. As has been noted, the lack of USRN committee updates had been noted long before COVID came around.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 08, 2021, 02:32:17 AM
Quote from: zzcarp on January 08, 2021, 01:52:33 AM
I get COVID causing some delays personally. I've set a reminder on my phone to remind me of garbage/recycling day is because it's easy to forget. Though, it seems these electronic files are not large and can be easily uploaded.
Right. In large organizations like this, it's not so much how easy it is technically to conduct the upload–it could be made no harder than dropping a file in a folder that gets periodically synced to the website, if they wanted it to be. The difficulty is more institutional–does the right person have access to the necessary files, and is there sufficient management emphasis on creating them and making them public in a timely manner?
Covid has caused a lot of the normal management priorities in every organization to get scrambled and something like this is exactly the sort of thing that could easily slip through the cracks. If the secretary responsible for creating the reports now works from home and doesn't have easy access to the webserver because they're now on the wrong side of a firewall, for instance, that is a duty that could easily become too inconvenient to keep up on when they may have many additional duties pushed onto them due to workforce shortages and don't have the spare time to push management and IT to make access easier.
This is interesting. I've been working from home since last spring. I typically go in to the office once every couple of weeks to get mail, sign timesheets, check in with my boss, and do things at the office that aren't easy to do from home. I haven't been able to get access to the VPN due to my use of a Mac with older system software (upgrading would break my copy of Adobe CS2) so any webpage updates needed to be done at the office. But today I found out that I can, in fact, update the webpage from home, which helped because we currently don't have an operational vehicle. (My Facebook friends know about my ongoing problems with my Saturn Vue, and my wife's vehicle is down due to a broken ignition switch that probably won't be repaired until next week).
I still don't have access to any documents on the server remotely, which is why I copied a bunch of stuff onto a flash drive when I found out I would be working from home, so I would have access to various document templates.
The AASHTO Site has been updated to include all of the 2020 Meetings. Link below.
https://route.transportation.org/past-meetings/
Of interest is the I-195/395/695 changes in DC. It seems like they are partially revisiting a plan when I-95 was relocated to beltway.
Thanks
Aha! As I guessed. I-680 being eliminated from I-29 since Iowa forgot to include that when renumbering the section that was originally I-80N to I-880. Rand McNally was correct in showing I-680 as overlapping I-29 to I-880.
I-195 replaces I-695 as the only Inter-"state" to never enter a state (excluding Puerto Rico's paper Interstates).
Quote from: ssummers72 on January 10, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
The AASHTO Site has been updated to include all of the 2020 Meetings. Link below.
https://route.transportation.org/past-meetings/
Of interest is the I-195/395/695 changes in DC. It seems like they are partially revisiting a plan when I-95 was relocated to beltway.
Thanks
Another missed opportunity for an I-995...there's already two I-395's within 40 miles of one another. Now two I-195's so close. With I-595 (hidden) just outside DC, and I-795 just outside Baltimore, I-995 would have been a good choice here.
Yay.
Spring 2020:
I-680 deletion from I-29 overlap in IA (cleanup after 2019 creation of I-880)
US 30 Business creation in Mount Vernon-Lisbon, IA (bypass had been approved in 2019)
US 67 realignment near Delhi, IL (to open fall 2021)
I-295 extension from US 401 Business to SR 1007 around Fayetteville, NC (had already been approved as future)
USBR 50 creation in CA
USBR 21 realignment south of Middlesboro, KY
USBR 35 realignment in Suttons Bay, MI
USBR 230 creation in WI
USBR 30 creation in WI (missing from the applications)
Fall 2020:
US 70/258 Business deleted in Kinston, NC
US 13 realigned along PA 291 and US 13 Business created in Chester, PA
US 63 Business deleted in Pine Bluff, AR
US 71 Business deleted in Fayetteville, AR
US 270 realigned at Wister, OK
USBR 1 realignment in West Palm Beach, FL
USBR 11 creation in WV
USBR 1 creation in DC
USBR 30 ND (application missing, but it's apparently just US 12)
USBR 201 creation in MD
USBR 11 creation in NY
I-395 realigned over I-695 to I-295/DC 295, with former I-395 north of I-695 becoming I-195 (this is pretty close to what was approved in 1984 but never carried out)
Quote from: ssummers72 on January 10, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
The AASHTO Site has been updated to include all of the 2020 Meetings. Link below.
https://route.transportation.org/past-meetings/
Of interest is the I-195/395/695 changes in DC. It seems like they are partially revisiting a plan when I-95 was relocated to beltway.
Thanks
That's good to see. I emailed them last week and hadn't heard back. Maybe a bunch of us from this forum bombarded them with enough emails that they put them online. Good Job Team!!!!
Quote from: ssummers72 on January 10, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
The AASHTO Site has been updated to include all of the 2020 Meetings. Link below.
https://route.transportation.org/past-meetings/
Of interest is the I-195/395/695 changes in DC. It seems like they are partially revisiting a plan when I-95 was relocated to beltway.
Thanks
WTOP article about route numbering change linked in DC group...
Quote from: davewiecking on January 11, 2021, 04:48:58 PM
WTOP article about route numbering change linked in DC group...
Whatever that means...
Quote from: NE2 on January 11, 2021, 07:03:54 PM
Quote from: davewiecking on January 11, 2021, 04:48:58 PM
WTOP article about route numbering change linked in DC group...
Whatever that means...
The "District of Columbia" thread in the Mid-Atlantic board had a news link posted to it.
For anyone else who thought he was talking about a Facepoo or Pooler group:
Quote from: davewiecking on January 11, 2021, 04:45:33 PM
Center Leg Tunnel to become I-195:
https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2021/01/move-over-i-395-southeast-freeway-3rd-street-tunnel-to-be-renumbered/
Quote from: 74/171FAN on January 06, 2021, 10:59:11 AM
I have no clue what PA would be doing with US 13.
See answer from a few posts down:
Quote from: NE2 on January 11, 2021, 12:04:59 PM
US 13 realigned along PA 291 and US 13 Business created in Chester, PA
The upshoot: US 13 Business will be the current US 13 corridor (4th St./Highland Ave./9th St.) between Price St. in the Borough of Trainer & Morton Ave. in Chester.
Given that PA 291 through Chester is mostly 5-lanes, such has been the case for over a decade, vs. 2-lanes for the current US 13 in the downtown area; moving it onto the 291 corridor would make sense.
The big question here is will PennDOT ultimately truncate PA 291 to the Morton Ave. (Future US 13) intersection just west of the Eddystone borough line? A long-term US 13/PA 291 concurrency would be unnecessary IMHO.
Quote from: Crown Victoria on January 11, 2021, 10:21:01 AM
Quote from: ssummers72 on January 10, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
The AASHTO Site has been updated to include all of the 2020 Meetings. Link below.
https://route.transportation.org/past-meetings/
Of interest is the I-195/395/695 changes in DC. It seems like they are partially revisiting a plan when I-95 was relocated to beltway.
Thanks
Another missed opportunity for an I-995...there's already two I-395's within 40 miles of one another. Now two I-195's so close. With I-595 (hidden) just outside DC, and I-795 just outside Baltimore, I-995 would have been a good choice here.
Agreed, I-995 would have been a better choice. Granted its not the 20 miles of separation between the I-291's in CT and MA, but I-195 to BWI is just 28 miles to the northeast.
With the Southeast Freeway renumbered to I-395, that leaves just the Baltimore Beltway and the short connector along the Throgs Neck Expressway in Bronx, New York as the two entries for I-695.
Meanwhile there are now 7 I-195's: Miami, Richmond, DC, Baltimore County, Trenton to Wall Twp, Providence to Wareham, Saco in Maine
Quote from: NE2 on January 11, 2021, 12:04:59 PM
I-395 realigned over I-695 to I-295/DC 295, with former I-395 north of I-695 becoming I-195 (this is pretty close to what was approved in 1984 but never carried out)
The previous I-195/395 proposal was approved by AASHTO on May 23, 1984. I recall seeing the change in the 1985 Rand McNally Road Atlas and first thinking it was an error. I-195 was still shown in the 1987 edition. One of the map scans I made on Interstate-Guide (https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-395-washington/):
(https://www.interstate-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/maps/washington-dc-1987.jpg)
^^^^
I'm sure I saw that number on other paper maps way back when, as I don't recall ever having a Rand McNally atlas. But I don't know whether I still have any of those old maps.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 14, 2021, 09:37:12 AM
^^^^
I'm sure I saw that number on other paper maps way back when, as I don't recall ever having a Rand McNally atlas. But I don't know whether I still have any of those old maps.
It is also shown on the 1985-86 official Maryland map. Virginia officials don't get detailed enough on its DC coverage.
I remember seeing that inset in the mid-80s atlases. Which brings these question: Was the Center Leg portion of I-395 actually switched over to I-195 the first time? And if so, why was it switched back? If not, what was the reason for leaving the designations as they were?
EDIT: Nevermind, it has already been established that the 1984 changes never took place.
Quote from: Alex on January 14, 2021, 09:33:42 AM
Quote from: Crown Victoria on January 11, 2021, 10:21:01 AM
Quote from: ssummers72 on January 10, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
The AASHTO Site has been updated to include all of the 2020 Meetings. Link below.
https://route.transportation.org/past-meetings/
Of interest is the I-195/395/695 changes in DC. It seems like they are partially revisiting a plan when I-95 was relocated to beltway.
Thanks
Another missed opportunity for an I-995...there's already two I-395's within 40 miles of one another. Now two I-195's so close. With I-595 (hidden) just outside DC, and I-795 just outside Baltimore, I-995 would have been a good choice here.
Agreed, I-995 would have been a better choice. Granted its not the 20 miles of separation between the I-291's in CT and MA, but I-195 to BWI is just 28 miles to the northeast.
With the Southeast Freeway renumbered to I-395, that leaves just the Baltimore Beltway and the short connector along the Throgs Neck Expressway in Bronx, New York as the two entries for I-695.
Meanwhile there are now 7 I-195's: Miami, Richmond, DC, Baltimore County, Trenton to Wall Twp, Providence to Wareham, Saco in Maine
Quote from: NE2 on January 11, 2021, 12:04:59 PM
I-395 realigned over I-695 to I-295/DC 295, with former I-395 north of I-695 becoming I-195 (this is pretty close to what was approved in 1984 but never carried out)
The previous I-195/395 proposal was approved by AASHTO on May 23, 1984. I recall seeing the change in the 1985 Rand McNally Road Atlas and first thinking it was an error. I-195 was still shown in the 1987 edition. One of the map scans I made on Interstate-Guide (https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-395-washington/):
(https://www.interstate-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/maps/washington-dc-1987.jpg)
I lived in the DC area at that point (mid-80s) and I can tell you with certainty that the Center Leg was NOT signed as 195. Matter of fact, it was 395 going up to the stoplight at New York Avenue.
What was that US 1 BR creation in DC all about? I've never searched for details on AASHTO proceedings so not sure where to look exactly. A quick Google search didn't help me much, but my time is limited at this moment.
Quote from: famartin on March 23, 2021, 11:40:47 AM
What was that US 1 BR creation in DC all about? I've never searched for details on AASHTO proceedings so not sure where to look exactly. A quick Google search didn't help me much, but my time is limited at this moment.
Referring to U.S. Bicycle Route 1. DC portion was finally designated (it's existed in Virginia for years). Memorial Bridge to the Rock Creek Trail, then west along K St (under the US 29/Whitehurst Freeway) to the Capital Crescent Trail.
I got notification this morning from PennDOT District 6 that the realigning of US 13 onto PA 291 and the redesignating of current US 13 as US 13 BUS in Chester, PA, is expected to be signed by the end of next week.
There will be no route changes to PA 291, PA 320, or PA 352 in Chester at this time.
PennDOT - District 6 News: PennDOT Establishes New Business U.S. 13, Redesignates U.S. 13 over Route 291 to Improve Truck Travel in the City of Chester (https://www.penndot.gov/regionaloffices/district-6/pages/details.aspx?newsid=7346)
Quote from: Alex on January 14, 2021, 09:33:42 AM
I recall seeing the change in the 1985 Rand McNally Road Atlas and first thinking it was an error. I-195 was still shown in the 1987 edition. One of the map scans I made on Interstate-Guide (https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-395-washington/):
(https://www.interstate-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/maps/washington-dc-1987.jpg)
Here is the equivalent map from the 1980 Rand McNally road atlas. There are several changes.
US 29 rerouted onto K Street and 11th Street.
No designation on Southeast Freeway east of the 195/395-695 interchange
US 1 rerouted off of I-395 and 9th Street and onto 14th and Constitution.
I-395 changed to I-195
(https://i.imgur.com/n8DsRHr.jpg)