So I was recently thinking about those green signs at highway junctions - the ones that have arrows pointing the way left, right, or straight ahead to nearby towns or other highways. I know that in some states, those signs include the distance to the destinations, whereas in other states, they do not. (I much prefer the ones that have the distances on them.) I was wanting to know which states had which preferences.
I know that in my state of Missouri, as well as in neighboring Iowa, these signs have the distances on them; on the other hand, Minnesota and Illinois do not (there are a few I've seen in both states that do have distances, but they seem to be the exception). Kansas is more inconsistent in that regard, but they seem to lean towards not including distances. I know that Ohio does include the distances; Indiana, though, I'm not sure about.
That's as much as I know regarding Midwestern states; among other states, I know that New York State has the distances on their signs (I remember from driving the back roads of that state on a family trip in 2007). Pennsylvania does as well.
Out west, when we visited Oregon in 2012, I remember seeing signs in that state, both with distances and without.
What are those green "pointing to towns" signs at junctions like in other states? Which states tend to include distances or exclude them, and which ones seem to be more mixed in that regard? I would be very interested to know.
Michigan doesn't include distances
Quote from: KCRoadFan on June 20, 2020, 10:49:47 PM
So I was recently thinking about those green signs at highway junctions - the ones that have arrows pointing the way left, right, or straight ahead to nearby towns or other highways. I know that in some states, those signs include the distance to the destinations, whereas in other states, they do not. (I much prefer the ones that have the distances on them.) I was wanting to know which states had which preferences.
I know that in my state of Missouri, as well as in neighboring Iowa, these signs have the distances on them; on the other hand, Minnesota and Illinois do not (there are a few I've seen in both states that do have distances, but they seem to be the exception). Kansas is more inconsistent in that regard, but they seem to lean towards not including distances. I know that Ohio does include the distances; Indiana, though, I'm not sure about.
That's as much as I know regarding Midwestern states; among other states, I know that New York State has the distances on their signs (I remember from driving the back roads of that state on a family trip in 2007). Pennsylvania does as well.
Out west, when we visited Oregon in 2012, I remember seeing signs in that state, both with distances and without.
What are those green "pointing to towns" signs at junctions like in other states? Which states tend to include distances or exclude them, and which ones seem to be more mixed in that regard? I would be very interested to know.
In California, generally, exit signs from freeways have only cities. Most "T" intersections (which have the destinations in smaller type) have distances.
Utah largely leaves distances off, but there are a handful of signs - mostly older - that do include them.
Hawaii uses these but it depends on the island.
Kauai - very common and as a bonus the signs are in miles and kilometers
Oahu - not common but there are some
Maui - very mixed, Central Maui had them but West and South Maui did not
Hawaii - very common, seems to be the only mileage signs used on the island
New York mostly has the mileage, but for a while (late 1970s thru at least the mid-'80s) new installs were mileage-free. Most of the ramp signage on I-390 in Livingston County, built during that era, is like that.
A strange example is on the exit 7 northbound off-ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7367286,-77.8360478,3a,15y,9.49h,88.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s6enrchoO8JrnlTQbZyLJUQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D6enrchoO8JrnlTQbZyLJUQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D39.423107%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656).
When this section opened in 1982, a pair of signs pointed to Geneseo and Batavia, both without distances. A few years later, the Batavia one was removed. Later, a Mount Morris sign was added – by then, NYSDOT started using distances again.
So a couple of years ago, it was replacement time. Even though this was a completely new sign drawing (changing two separate signs into a single two-line sign), the engineers must have thought there was some special reason for leaving off the distance to Geneseo (4 miles), and that they would be in a heap of trouble if they added it. :banghead:
Both Massachusetts and New Hampshire have removed distances from their signs over the years.
Colorado wayfinders do not include mileage. However, CDOT is pretty good at placing separate mileage signs just past the intersections in most non-urban areas.
In New Mexico, most wayfinders only have directional arrows. But considering how inconsistent and haphazard NMDOT's signing practices are, I wouldn't be surprised if they did have a few out in the wild.
Quote from: GenExpwy on June 21, 2020, 04:57:26 AM
A strange example is on the exit 7 northbound off-ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7367286,-77.8360478,3a,15y,9.49h,88.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s6enrchoO8JrnlTQbZyLJUQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D6enrchoO8JrnlTQbZyLJUQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D39.423107%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656).
That is strange. I don't know why they wouldn't have just posted the 4.
NY is usually pretty good about posting the mileage... here's one of the more profound examples (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1984111,-77.9435253,3a,15y,275.09h,89.47t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stX4nIPKXPx-BuzaGHL9Wpg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DtX4nIPKXPx-BuzaGHL9Wpg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D67.49108%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) in the state, if not the entire country. There's no missing that monster!
TX used to include distances on pre-intersection advance guide signs. They transitioned away from doing that in the 1970s-1980s. You might see an occasional freeway/interstate off-ramp with one, but now it's primarily a wait until the reassurance guide signs after an intersection before you see any distances.
Newer MO signs don't include distances. Like at the Ballas/40 interchange near my house.
Old sign:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6379959,-90.4436456,3a,58.6y,204.12h,91.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM4OihUZ6IjMJm8X2w5p2TQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
New BGS:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6379761,-90.4436116,3a,75y,204.12h,91.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scVPuqLkAPARoIM5MCY-rzA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Louisiana used to include the mileage with the destinations at the end of off ramps but they do not now. I can't find a picture anywhere of the old style. Many of the signs at interstate on ramps used to include mileage to control cities, too.
iPhone
Ohio uses these.
As the OP mentioned, Pennsylvania does include distances, with the exceptions being when a destination is less than a mile away, and also often when pointing to a freeway on-ramp.
I will say that South Carolina has a mixture of signs that do include distances and some that don't.
Wisconsin does not use them. The mileage signs in none urban areas are usually right after the interchange like this for WIS 23 off I-39. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7914824,-89.4799911,3a,48.1y,114.9h,75.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4QK7ktV0PS9cRrXcoqba3Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
To expand on Minnesota a bit it seems to be up to each MnDOT district. District 3 (central Minnesota) and I think District 8 (southwest Minnesota) are the two that tend to use them regularly.
As a rule Virginia and North Carolina do not put distances on these signs.
South Carolina used to always have the mileages but new installs in the 21st century often do not.
Alabama usually includes distances if they're on the same through route, but the distances are omitted at a junction.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49495142877_d83698bd8e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ipHxAn)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49132619218_f0be3c8056_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRFvWs)
There's also signs with a single destination in a few places; "major" cities usually get a distance listed (when used on a through route), whereas minor places typically just get a left or right arrow.
Iowa does.
IL does - At least District 2. As each district has their own set of rules, I can't speak to others.
Most of Wisconsin's don't, but some on county highways do.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on June 20, 2020, 10:49:47 PM
(I much prefer the ones that have the distances on them.)
What benefit is it to have the distances on them?
Does the distance help you know which way to turn? No.
They tell you how far it is to the town after you turn. If the distance signs are posted religiously I suppose it could be redundant, but often those signs are used sparingly or not at all.
Quote from: SectorZ on June 21, 2020, 07:18:49 AM
Both Massachusetts and New Hampshire have removed distances from their signs over the years.
Massachusetts stopped posting distances on their secondary road guide signs beginning in 1994, at the same tome they revised the sign formats to provide route shields instead of numbers.
CT is a mix of haves and have nots. Typically, the ones prior to an intersection do not contain the mileage, but the ones at and post-intersection (usually with the first reassurance shield) have the mileage. Newer ones in Clearview mixed case typically omit the mileage.
Kentucky is inconsistent. Mostly no, but some places do.
West Virginia does not.
Quote from: kphoger on June 22, 2020, 12:05:20 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on June 20, 2020, 10:49:47 PM
(I much prefer the ones that have the distances on them.)
What benefit is it to have the distances on them?
Does the distance help you know which way to turn? No.
It's additional information that is often helpful - say, if there's no services in sight and you have 10 miles to an empty gas tank - and hardly takes up any space, so why not?
Quote from: webny99 on June 22, 2020, 01:48:45 PM
It's additional information that is often helpful - say, if there's no services in sight and you have 10 miles to an empty gas tank - and hardly takes up any space, so why not?
Those signs don't tell you if there's a gas station in the town they point to.
As best as I can recall, Georgia does not do this, while Florida does, at least from Interstate off-ramps.
Quote from: vdeane on June 22, 2020, 12:54:28 PM
They tell you how far it is to the town after you turn. If the distance signs are posted religiously I suppose it could be redundant, but often those signs are used sparingly or not at all.
Standard practice in every state that I'm familiar with (meaning OK, KS, MO, TX) includes a distance sign as the next sign after the reassurance shield (usually accompanied with a speed limit sign somewhere in the batch). If I were to run into a state which only included mileages on the junction sign and not on a separate sign after the junction (as you seem to imply is NYSDOT standard practice), I would find it odd enough that it would stick in my memory.
The practice makes sense, since, as mentioned above, distance information is not really relevant at the decision point, so to reduce message loading it can be given to the driver after they have already committed to a turn. This also has the effect of serving as a secondary reassurance message, reinforcing the reassurance shield.
Here's a practice that might blow your mind–Kansas DOT includes a mileage sign after the majority of rural freeway interchanges! (Not 100% of them, but pretty close!)
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 26, 2020, 05:43:01 AM
Here's a practice that might blow your mind–Kansas DOT includes a mileage sign after the majority of rural freeway interchanges! (Not 100% of them, but pretty close!)
A mileage sign on the freeway, or the surface road?
The former would not be surprising, as that's SOP here in New York, too, especially on the Thruway. However, on surface streets I would say post-junction mileage signs are uncommon, if not rare. Usually, as mentioned, the mileage is
only on the sign at the junction. This applies to both freeway junctions, and surface road junctions. Here's a classic four-line example (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.231587,-76.7325016,3a,15y,114h,87.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJY-KG_Sjwe3S_KBQ8-wZgw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1).
Quote from: webny99 on June 26, 2020, 08:35:31 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 26, 2020, 05:43:01 AM
Here's a practice that might blow your mind–Kansas DOT includes a mileage sign after the majority of rural freeway interchanges! (Not 100% of them, but pretty close!)
A mileage sign on the freeway, or the surface road?
Both.
For Minnesota it depends on how close that interchange is to a town. If the surface road enters a town within a couple minutes, the mileage sign isn't posted going that direction until after town. If it's just rural mileage, there is usually a sign right away.
Arkansas bolts the reassurance sign to the distance sign past the intersection. If they could make it a uni-sign, it would remind me of the motorways in Europe. They started that practice in the late 1990s.
I like Ohio's way of doing it here at US 322/OH 11. Mileage on everything, even for the freeway onramps.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200627/7af81d368d05d709b948aac1edd6844c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200627/7e84c71b991a0b138d77b506097d42d1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200627/42669dab947552b9e6fb70cafda9247c.jpg)
Quote from: GenExpwy on June 21, 2020, 04:57:26 AM
New York mostly has the mileage, but for a while (late 1970s thru at least the mid-'80s) new installs were mileage-free. Most of the ramp signage on I-390 in Livingston County, built during that era, is like that.
A strange example is on the exit 7 northbound off-ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7367286,-77.8360478,3a,15y,9.49h,88.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s6enrchoO8JrnlTQbZyLJUQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D6enrchoO8JrnlTQbZyLJUQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D39.423107%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656).
When this section opened in 1982, a pair of signs pointed to Geneseo and Batavia, both without distances. A few years later, the Batavia one was removed. Later, a Mount Morris sign was added – by then, NYSDOT started using distances again.
Here's another mixed one, in Maine. I guess the designer REALLY didn't want to make the guide sign wider than the route assembly.
(https://i.imgur.com/UJsquwy.jpg)
I really don't see why you wouldn't have them. Personally, I find them useful - if I'm going somewhere and see "35 miles" I can say "I'll be there in about half an hour," and if I know my parents want me home in half an hour and I see a sign that says "State College 42 Miles"... then I know what I have to do :-P
Pennsylvania's pretty good at it.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on June 28, 2020, 04:42:05 PM
Here's another mixed one, in Maine. I guess the designer REALLY didn't want to make the guide sign wider than the route assembly.
(https://i.imgur.com/UJsquwy.jpg)
I think the deal with this one is that Fryeburg Center is less than a mile away, so they didn't even bother posting the distance. At least that's what a quick look at Google maps told me.
In my experience, Pennsylvania is the king of posting mileages on every single sign, no matter how major or minor the highway. Ohio also does it a lot. Most states will put up a sign without mileages before the intersection, then another sign after the intersection with distances on it. Pennsylvania, though, does both, so the fact that Erie is STILL 34 miles away is drilled into your head.
Sometimes, Missouri will omit a distance when a town is basically in sight or right around the bend. I've found distances to be less common on limited access highway ramps. In Arkansas, no distances are given, but distances for a close town above, then a more major town/junction (or one that's simply further away) below are given just past an intersection directly below a reassurance shield. Sometimes instead of cities/towns, distances to state parks are shown.
There is this confusing sign on US 41 by Marinette, WI: https://goo.gl/maps/hxienWr1SqxHdZ2C8
The 5 refers to it being W Frontage Rd #5
Quote from: Big John on June 28, 2020, 07:21:28 PM
There is this confusing sign on US 41 by Marinette, WI: https://goo.gl/maps/hxienWr1SqxHdZ2C8
The 5 refers to it being W Frontage Rd #5
Yeah, I thought it meant five miles until I clicked back and read your second line.
This type of thing (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3416339,-79.9583052,3a,15y,351.63h,91.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siGqVJwpS088gmlS_jJmVnQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) is very common in Ontario, Canada, which I suppose could be similarly misinterpreted, though it's not as egregious.
Quote from: Ketchup99 on June 28, 2020, 04:49:51 PM
I really don't see why you wouldn't have them. Personally, I find them useful - if I'm going somewhere and see "35 miles" I can say "I'll be there in about half an hour," and if I know my parents want me home in half an hour and I see a sign that says "State College 42 Miles"... then I know what I have to do :-P
Pennsylvania's pretty good at it.
If there's no distance sign
after the junction, then I get it.
But, if there's a distance sign after the junction, then the distance being posted ahead of the junction would be superfluous.
On the other hand, if distances were
only ever posted in advance of junctions, then same-route distances would need to be included at every junction–not just the distances for destinations on the crossroad.
Quote from: kphoger on June 29, 2020, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on June 28, 2020, 04:49:51 PM
I really don't see why you wouldn't have them. Personally, I find them useful - if I'm going somewhere and see "35 miles" I can say "I'll be there in about half an hour," and if I know my parents want me home in half an hour and I see a sign that says "State College 42 Miles"... then I know what I have to do :-P
Pennsylvania's pretty good at it.
If there's no distance sign after the junction, then I get it.
But, if there's a distance sign after the junction, then the distance being posted ahead of the junction would be superfluous.
On the other hand, if distances were only ever posted in advance of junctions, then same-route distances would need to be included at every junction–not just the distances for destinations on the crossroad.
Usually PA doesn't have a distance sign after the junction, so it's useful.
Quote from: Ketchup99 on June 29, 2020, 07:01:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 29, 2020, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on June 28, 2020, 04:49:51 PM
I really don't see why you wouldn't have them. Personally, I find them useful - if I'm going somewhere and see "35 miles" I can say "I'll be there in about half an hour," and if I know my parents want me home in half an hour and I see a sign that says "State College 42 Miles"... then I know what I have to do :-P
Pennsylvania's pretty good at it.
If there's no distance sign after the junction, then I get it.
But, if there's a distance sign after the junction, then the distance being posted ahead of the junction would be superfluous.
On the other hand, if distances were only ever posted in advance of junctions, then same-route distances would need to be included at every junction–not just the distances for destinations on the crossroad.
Usually PA doesn't have a distance sign after the junction, so it's useful.
Really? I've seen them all over the western/central parts of the state.
Quote from: csw on June 29, 2020, 08:06:04 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on June 29, 2020, 07:01:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 29, 2020, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on June 28, 2020, 04:49:51 PM
I really don't see why you wouldn't have them. Personally, I find them useful - if I'm going somewhere and see "35 miles" I can say "I'll be there in about half an hour," and if I know my parents want me home in half an hour and I see a sign that says "State College 42 Miles"... then I know what I have to do :-P
Pennsylvania's pretty good at it.
If there's no distance sign after the junction, then I get it.
But, if there's a distance sign after the junction, then the distance being posted ahead of the junction would be superfluous.
On the other hand, if distances were only ever posted in advance of junctions, then same-route distances would need to be included at every junction–not just the distances for destinations on the crossroad.
Usually PA doesn't have a distance sign after the junction, so it's useful.
Really? I've seen them all over the western/central parts of the state.
I shouldn't have spoken for the whole state. Lots of roads around where I live have a distance sign at an intersection but not one right ahead. However, I might just not be looking...