https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/protesters-want-robert-moses-statue-on-long-island-removed
I didn't know which forum would be the most appropriate for this story, so I just left it here.
Looks like someone discovered the LOMEX.
Quote from: BamaZeus on June 22, 2020, 12:43:34 PM
https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/protesters-want-robert-moses-statue-on-long-island-removed
I didn't know which forum would be the most appropriate for this story, so I just left it here.
Well,
there's an interesting can of worms to open!
:popcorn:
Quote from: BamaZeus on June 22, 2020, 12:43:34 PM
I didn't know which forum would be the most appropriate for this story
I think you meant board, not forum?
Anyways, in before [purple text]Not this one[/purple text].
Actually, this thread appears to be dying on its own due to lack of interest.
Cause it is old news. Many other people from the past have recently been protested especially many of our Founding Fathers and make headlines on social media as much as people post here on AARoads.
I think everyone seems to hate Robert Moses.
I'm not sure if I like the man, I used to when I was a younger roadgeek.
Robert Moses got things done. Today's bureaucrats, not so much.
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on June 24, 2020, 06:03:27 PM
Robert Moses got things done. Today's bureaucrats, not so much.
Rick
But at what cost?
He was a complex guy. On the one hand, he's responsible - singlehandedly - for the web of highways that traverses the Tri-State Area. On the other hand, that web of highways tore through innumerable neighborhoods and nicely complimented the redlining that still plagues American cities, especially NYC.
He would be far from the only person whose projects displaced people in poor or black neighborhoods.. but few of them have statues.
The problem is we do not know the man personally so its hard to say without research, but rumors carry today as fact to most people and the fact honor is no longer a thing with our country like it was. Before you had things named after people to show respect like the person or not, now we live in a society that if a person does not think like he or she does, that person should be erased from our minds and leave our own cone of vision.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 25, 2020, 08:50:02 AM
The problem is we do not know the man personally so its hard to say without research, but rumors carry today as fact to most people and the fact honor is no longer a thing with our country like it was. Before you had things named after people to show respect like the person or not, now we live in a society that if a person does not think like he or she does, that person should be erased from our minds and leave our own cone of vision.
Oh come now. Let's maybe take a look at history.
It is clear that this "tear down this statue" thing has gotten out of hand no doubt. But let's also remember that we were erecting statues to "honor" (your word) traitors who faught to keep the right to enslave other people? So the idea that we are out of whack now with tearing down these things is true, but I would argue we were out of whack to erect some of these things in the first place.
Too many people act as if humanity has changed. It hasn't. It's as prone to wild exaggeration as it has always been.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2020, 08:55:30 AM
It is clear that this "tear down this statue" thing has gotten out of hand no doubt. But let's also remember that we were erecting statues to "honor" (your word) traitors who faught to keep the right to enslave other people? So the idea that we are out of whack now with tearing down these things is true, but I would argue we were out of whack to erect some of these things in the first place.
Too many people act as if humanity has changed. It hasn't. It's as prone to wild exaggeration as it has always been.
I have mixed feelings about the statue issue. But we should at least acknowledge that there's more to a historical figure than just his position on slavery. We've gotten to the point that, if a person was in favor of or owned slaves, then there must be nothing else about that person worth remembering and honoring.
Robert Moses, whatever dirt sullied his hands, was still an influential person in the history of the region. Whether his statue should remain or be removed ought to be the result of analyzing all aspects of his influence, not just one aspect.
Quote from: kphoger on June 25, 2020, 12:27:51 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2020, 08:55:30 AM
It is clear that this "tear down this statue" thing has gotten out of hand no doubt. But let's also remember that we were erecting statues to "honor" (your word) traitors who faught to keep the right to enslave other people? So the idea that we are out of whack now with tearing down these things is true, but I would argue we were out of whack to erect some of these things in the first place.
Too many people act as if humanity has changed. It hasn't. It's as prone to wild exaggeration as it has always been.
I have mixed feelings about the statue issue. But we should at least acknowledge that there's more to a historical figure than just his position on slavery. We've gotten to the point that, if a person was in favor of or owned slaves, then there must be nothing else about that person worth remembering and honoring.
Robert Moses, whatever dirt sullied his hands, was still an influential person in the history of the region. Whether his statue should remain or be removed ought to be the result of analyzing all aspects of his influence, not just one aspect.
It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves. It's that they were traitorous. We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.
H.B. mentioned that he lives in Lee County Kentucky. I just looked that up, and it was a county founded in 1870. A county named after a traitorous general in a state that never seceeded. I think that is much more out of place than tearing down a statue of Robert Moses.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 24, 2020, 06:55:32 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on June 24, 2020, 06:03:27 PM
Robert Moses got things done. Today's bureaucrats, not so much.
Rick
But at what cost?
At a lesser cost than the current system.
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on June 25, 2020, 04:21:22 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 24, 2020, 06:55:32 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on June 24, 2020, 06:03:27 PM
Robert Moses got things done. Today's bureaucrats, not so much.
Rick
But at what cost?
At a lesser cost than the current system.
Rick
I don't mean monetary cost.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 25, 2020, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on June 25, 2020, 04:21:22 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 24, 2020, 06:55:32 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on June 24, 2020, 06:03:27 PM
Robert Moses got things done. Today's bureaucrats, not so much.
Rick
But at what cost?
At a lesser cost than the current system.
Rick
I don't mean monetary cost.
Those hoods in the Bronx would likely be in deep crap even without the Cross-Bronx. It's better to have a functioning network of expressways with some very crappy neighborhoods than no expressway network and still crappy neighborhoods. Lesser of the two evils, I suppose, which is why I regard Moses' brainchild system as a net positive for the NY area.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2020, 01:48:30 PM
It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves. It's that they were traitorous. We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.
Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php
Quote from: vdeane on June 25, 2020, 09:04:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2020, 01:48:30 PM
It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves. It's that they were traitorous. We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.
Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php
I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 25, 2020, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 25, 2020, 09:04:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2020, 01:48:30 PM
It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves. It's that they were traitorous. We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.
Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php (https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php)
I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.
It was built on stolen Sioux Indian land, so...
Quote from: Hwy 61 Revisited on June 26, 2020, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 25, 2020, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 25, 2020, 09:04:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2020, 01:48:30 PM
It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves. It's that they were traitorous. We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.
Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php (https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php)
I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.
It was built on stolen Sioux Indian land, so...
I don't think that anyone supports tearing it down.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2020, 12:30:05 AM
Quote from: Hwy 61 Revisited on June 26, 2020, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 25, 2020, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 25, 2020, 09:04:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2020, 01:48:30 PM
It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves. It's that they were traitorous. We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.
Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php (https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php)
I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.
It was built on stolen Sioux Indian land, so...
I don't think that anyone supports tearing it down.
Tearing it down would have a large negative impact on the local economy.
SM-G965U
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2020, 12:30:05 AM
Quote from: Hwy 61 Revisited on June 26, 2020, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 25, 2020, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 25, 2020, 09:04:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2020, 01:48:30 PM
It's not just that someone is in favor or owned slaves. It's that they were traitorous. We erect monuments to honor them, when they really don't deserve such honor.
Actually, there are statues being removed simply because a person owned slaves:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php (https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-Saying-goodbye-to-the-statue-of-Philip-15336389.php)
I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.
It was built on stolen Sioux Indian land, so...
I don't think that anyone supports tearing it down.
Shhhhhhhh..... Let's not give them any ideas.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 26, 2020, 12:30:05 AM
Quote from: Hwy 61 Revisited on June 26, 2020, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 25, 2020, 09:25:41 PM
I mean, I might not disagree, but you can tear down half of mount Rushmore with that logic.
It was built on stolen Sioux Indian land, so...
I don't think that anyone supports tearing it down.
You mean other than
the President of the Oglala Sioux (https://ijr.org/sioux-president-calls-for-removal-mount-rushmore/)?
Has there been a push at all to rename the R.M Causeway?
The R.M. State Parkway was renamed a few years ago.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on June 29, 2020, 01:15:51 PM
Has there been a push at all to rename the R.M Causeway?
The R.M. State Parkway was renamed a few years ago.
I know that there's a push to turn the state park into Fire Island State Park. Presumably, the causeway would go with it.
Too bad NYSDOT is spending so much money on this instead of a dual bridge over the Fire Island Inlet.