The three northern New England states have some really nice roads. For least scenic, Rhode Island beats out Connecticut because Connecticut has the Merritt parkway. Other states can have nice roads too, but they can also have tons of boring ones.
Least: Oklahoma maybe?
Quote from: 1 on June 29, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
Least: Oklahoma maybe?
Oklahoma has Mountains, there is always potential there. Indiana is pretty high on my own mental list of states I've frequented a good sample the road network. Louisiana wasn't really all that much of a looker either.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 29, 2020, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 29, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
Least: Oklahoma maybe?
Oklahoma has Mountains, there is always potential there. Indiana is pretty high on my own mental list of states I've frequented a good sample the road network. Louisiana wasn't really all that much of a looker either.
There are the mointains in the panhandle and in the east, plus the Red River area.
Delaware was very unscenic.
Quote from: 1 on June 29, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
Least: Oklahoma maybe?
I don't know, the eastern Dakotas make this (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6661066,-98.1190059,3a,73.1y,97.25h,84.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sosGxtu7t7wOBdi1qVPrEYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1) look like the Rockies. The western Dakotas are interesting landscape-wise, but so are parts of Oklahoma.
If you want an entire state that's boring, it's got to be Iowa. Illinois and Indiana are second and third only because they're more interesting in the south.
Border to border, nothing is worse than Nebraska.
Most: Arkansas (NW half).
Least: Arkansas (SE half).
Quote from: webny99 on June 29, 2020, 10:01:41 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 29, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
Least: Oklahoma maybe?
I don't know, the eastern Dakotas make this (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6661066,-98.1190059,3a,73.1y,97.25h,84.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sosGxtu7t7wOBdi1qVPrEYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1) look like the Rockies. The western Dakotas are interesting landscape-wise, but so are parts of Oklahoma.
If you want an entire state that's boring, it's got to be Iowa. Illinois and Indiana are second and third only because they're more interesting in the south.
And on the other end of the state, you have SH-1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6874234,-94.628809,3a,88.9y,42.03h,87.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seRljb0PiegW3zd_Tmg_laA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1).
Took a girl on a date here once (in October, when the trees were changing). Now we're married. So the scenery can't be
that bad...
Pennsylvania has always had my favorite scenery. Say what you want about the roads; the scenery is top-tier. Eastern Tennessee is probably my second-favorite.
Least-favorite scenery: anything that's flat without being near large bodies of water. If you think my home state is famous for being flat and boring, you've either never driven through the Flint Hills or the Blue River area, or you've never driven through much of Illinois. :P
Hawaii has to be the most scenic, it's pretty difficult to get away from views of volcanic mountains, the ocean, or lush tropical rainforest.
On the mainland, probably Washington. A huge variety of scenery to choose from.
For least scenic, Mississippi is close to the bottom.
Quote from: Road Hog on June 30, 2020, 06:17:30 AM
Most: Arkansas (NW half).
Least: Arkansas (SE half).
I kind of thought US 65 was an interesting Highway if not kind of scenic. Lake Chicot even has an overlook at the state visitor center.
Colorado wins, and it's not close. As for least scenic, I'd say Nebraska for % of roads that are boring, and Texas for most miles of roads that are boring.
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2020, 09:20:16 AM
Colorado wins, and it's not close. As for least scenic, I'd say Nebraska for % of roads that are boring, and Texas for most miles of roads that are boring.
I disagree on some of the above. Utah and California both have just as many scenic roads if not more than Colorado. Eastern Texas roads are dull but they come alive west of San Antonio. Yeah I-10 is boring as hell but that's a pretty crappy way to get across the state unless you're in a hurry. Nebraska by default was going to be high on the boring list.
Yeah to second what Max said, eastern roads in Texas kinda suck in the scenic category, but once you're west of US 77 the roads become awesome.
Houston could theoretically be the least scenic city of its size anywhere in the world, though.
Quote from: webny99 on June 29, 2020, 10:01:41 PM
Illinois and Indiana are second and third only because they're more interesting in the south.
Illinois has some great views and rolling hills up in the northwest corner (Galena, Elizabeth, Stockton) and there's plenty of good urban scenery in the northeast (mainly Chicago), especially on I-94 west or US 41 north or south. I-55, etc. can enjoy a view of the Gateway Arch in the southwest. It's the center of the state where the scenery is just awful.
Living in Illinois, though, I rarely see mountains. Because of that, I really enjoyed driving the WV Turnpike/I-77 from Charleston to Bluefield. It's almost exactly 100 miles of winding road through tons of mountains. I got to see WV's capital buildings and a tunnel at the end. I did enjoy the other scenery I saw in WV, but I didn't see much on US 52 in WV because my windshield was covered in rain much of the time.
Quote from: Terry Shea on June 29, 2020, 10:17:23 PM
Border to border, nothing is worse than Nebraska.
Even north-south highways through the Sand Hills?
Quote from: 1 on June 29, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
Least: Oklahoma maybe?
That could be the case for most of the state, but the Ouachita Mountains in the southeast part of the state has the Talimena Scenic Byway, among other scenic routes traversing the region such as US 259. Most of the byway is in Oklahoma, but when it comes to the Ouachita Mountains themselves it's probably 40/60 split in favor of Arkansas, which has the highest point in the range.
Quote from: webny99 on June 29, 2020, 10:01:41 PM
If you want an entire state that's boring, it's got to be Iowa.
I take it you've never been to the northeastern corner of Iowa. US 52 from Dubuque to the Minnesota state line is a neat drive.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 30, 2020, 02:50:55 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 29, 2020, 10:01:41 PM
If you want an entire state that's boring, it's got to be Iowa.
I take it you've never been to the northeastern corner of Iowa. US 52 from Dubuque to the Minnesota state line is a neat drive.
Iowa has a lot of weird stuff like Snake Alley which compares to things like Lombard Street.
I must admit that very little of what I've seen in Iowa could be described as scenic. But I've never been northeast of AotS.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 30, 2020, 08:52:05 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 30, 2020, 06:17:30 AM
Most: Arkansas (NW half).
Least: Arkansas (SE half).
I kind of thought US 65 was an interesting Highway if not kind of scenic. Lake Chicot even has an overlook at the state visitor center.
Definitely North of Conway, all the way to MO. I can't speak for the part along the Mississippi, as I haven't been to any part of Arkansas southeast of US 67.
The best scenic drives in the Ozarks are mostly confined to Arkansas (like the Pig Trail Byway or the Scenic 7 Byway), though there are a few notable routes in southern Missouri such as the Glade Top Trail Byway, US 160 west of MO 125, and Route 86 dropping in to the White River valley. Further east, there are some roads near the Ozark National Scenic Riverways including MO 19 and 106 are located on ridgetops and have a couple of scenic pullouts. Outside of the Ozarks there is Route 79 near some of the Northeast MO Mississippi bluffs. MO has a fair share of scenic roads, but is outdone by at least half of the other states.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on June 30, 2020, 03:07:40 PM
The best scenic drives in the Ozarks are mostly confined to Arkansas (like the Pig Trail Byway or the Scenic 7 Byway), though there are a few notable routes in southern Missouri such as the Glade Top Trail Byway, US 160 west of MO 125, and Route 86 dropping in to the White River valley. Further east, there are some roads near the Ozark National Scenic Riverways including MO 19 and 106 are located on ridgetops and have a couple of scenic pullouts. Outside of the Ozarks there is Route 79 near some of the Northeast MO Mississippi bluffs. MO has a fair share of scenic roads, but is outdone by at least half of the other states.
This was a fantastic drive (https://goo.gl/maps/e9yyGibcLNBRWAK39) when my wife and I drove it three years ago.
In Minnesota it's pretty much "east of the Mississippi, west of the Mississippi" - plenty to see along it and east of it, nothing to see west of it.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 30, 2020, 02:50:55 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 29, 2020, 10:01:41 PM
If you want an entire state that's boring, it's got to be Iowa.
I take it you've never been to the northeastern corner of Iowa. US 52 from Dubuque to the Minnesota state line is a neat drive.
I haven't, but it would take a lot to make up for the rest of the state. That is to say, the northeastern corner could be very scenic and Iowa could still be the least scenic state - the two aren't mutually exclusive.
Never been to these states, but my wild guesses would be Kansas or Indiana.
They aren't always the easiest to get to, but Indiana has its share of scenic roads. Most are best when viewed when the leaves are changing colors. Here are a few of my favorites.
IN 135 between IN 58 and IN 45
IN 45 between IN 46 and IN 135
IN 156 between IN 56 and IN 56
IN 66 between IN 70 and IN 237
US 12 between IN 149 and IN 520
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 30, 2020, 06:09:12 PM
They aren't always the easiest to get to, but Indiana has its share of scenic roads. Most are best when viewed when the leaves are changing colors. Here are a few of my favorites.
IN 135 between IN 58 and IN 45
IN 45 between IN 46 and IN 135
IN 156 between IN 56 and IN 56
IN 66 between IN 70 and IN 237
US 12 between IN 149 and IN 520
I mean, every state has scenic roads. Delaware might be worse though.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 30, 2020, 10:38:05 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2020, 09:20:16 AM
Colorado wins, and it's not close. As for least scenic, I'd say Nebraska for % of roads that are boring, and Texas for most miles of roads that are boring.
I disagree on some of the above. Utah and California both have just as many scenic roads if not more than Colorado. Eastern Texas roads are dull but they come alive west of San Antonio. Yeah I-10 is boring as hell but that's a pretty crappy way to get across the state unless you're in a hurry. Nebraska by default was going to be high on the boring list.
That's why I said miles, not percentages, for Texas. There are many scenic roads in Texas but there are also so many boring ones since it's such a huge state.
Quote from: webny99 on June 29, 2020, 10:01:41 PM
If you want an entire state that's boring, it's got to be Iowa.
Unfortunately, many people who bypass the state on I-29 see it that way, because the route stays in the Missouri River valley the whole time. I did that en route to SD and the most interesting part of Iowa for me was being able to see the First National Bank Tower from many miles away.. which is in Nebraska.
Indiana has to be the least.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 30, 2020, 05:08:47 PM
Never been to these states, but my wild guesses would be Kansas or Indiana.
For most scenic and least scenic, respectively?
Quote from: ozarkman417 on June 30, 2020, 07:21:30 PM
... on I-29 ... the most interesting part of Iowa for me was being able to see the First National Bank Tower from many miles away.. which is in Nebraska.
But the scenery was still part of driving in Iowa.
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 30, 2020, 05:08:47 PM
Never been to these states, but my wild guesses would be Kansas or Indiana.
For most scenic and least scenic, respectively?
Quote from: ozarkman417 on June 30, 2020, 07:21:30 PM
... on I-29 ... the most interesting part of Iowa for me was being able to see the First National Bank Tower from many miles away.. which is in Nebraska.
But the scenery was still part of driving in Iowa.
Just for least scenic.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 30, 2020, 05:08:47 PM
Never been to these states, but my wild guesses would be Kansas or Indiana.
Indiana can be quit scenic in the southern part of the state. I think I-64 is a scenic drive most of the way from Louisville to Evansville, but I've done it several times so the magic wears off after awhile.
As for Kansas, traversing the Flint Hills on the I-35 portion of the Turnpike is surprisingly scenic. I found crossing the southern part of the state on US 166 to be quite scenic as well.
And someone mentioned Missouri. US 60 is scenic from Poplar Bluff to just east of Springfield, and is a fairly quick drive now that all of it is four lanes.
I've found most Missouri routes to be scenic.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 01, 2020, 11:43:07 AM
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 30, 2020, 05:08:47 PM
Never been to these states, but my wild guesses would be Kansas or Indiana.
For most scenic and least scenic, respectively?
Quote from: ozarkman417 on June 30, 2020, 07:21:30 PM
... on I-29 ... the most interesting part of Iowa for me was being able to see the First National Bank Tower from many miles away.. which is in Nebraska.
But the scenery was still part of driving in Iowa.
Just for least scenic.
Ever been to Dubuque? That area is the only reason I'd say Iowa isn't last.
I don't think anyone has contested Delaware, even though it's been suggested twice now.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 30, 2020, 05:08:47 PM
Never been to these states, but my wild guesses would be Kansas or Indiana.
Actually, Kansas is quite scenic along I-70 between Topeka and Manhattan.
New Jersey is also down there, besides some parts in the north.
Kansas has plenty of scenic driving, but you generally have to leave the Interstate to find it.
K-161, Cheyenne County (https://goo.gl/maps/ddCSvzE34gh4Yupn7)
US-160, Clark County (https://goo.gl/maps/mRj2HigZzb799jxf6)
US-160, Elk County (https://goo.gl/maps/fJxvQH3fMzvDQJn49)
K-177, Chase County (https://goo.gl/maps/CmLL7q9wRsujRygR9)
K-177, Geary County (https://goo.gl/maps/b19RbyoZxJXWKoW38)
K-4, Wabaunsee County (https://goo.gl/maps/sxrHykpRTW6BBgaa9)
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 29, 2020, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 29, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
Least: Oklahoma maybe?
Oklahoma has Mountains, there is always potential there. Indiana is pretty high on my own mental list of states I've frequented a good sample the road network. Louisiana wasn't really all that much of a looker either.
Central Illinois is god awful
I've been to 40 states. The worst I've seen are Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, and North Dakota.
Quote from: texaskdog on July 01, 2020, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 29, 2020, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 29, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
Least: Oklahoma maybe?
Oklahoma has Mountains, there is always potential there. Indiana is pretty high on my own mental list of states I've frequented a good sample the road network. Louisiana wasn't really all that much of a looker either.
Central Illinois is god awful
I've been to 40 states. The worst I've seen are Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, and North Dakota.
The irony is that I-94 through Theodore Roosevelt National Park in North Dakota is one of the most scenic Interstate segments out there.
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 01:33:25 PM
I don't think anyone has contested Delaware, even though it's been suggested twice now.
It does have the ocean, at least.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 01, 2020, 02:43:05 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on July 01, 2020, 02:33:36 PM
I've been to 40 states. The worst I've seen are Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, and North Dakota.
The irony is that I-94 through Theodore Roosevelt National Park in North Dakota is one of the most scenic Interstate segments out there.
Yeah, western North Dakota is quite scenic. It's definitely not the least-scenic state as a whole.
Quote from: webny99 on July 01, 2020, 04:03:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 01:33:25 PM
I don't think anyone has contested Delaware, even though it's been suggested twice now.
It does have the ocean, at least.
I've never been there but, looking on GSV, I find very little of the ocean (or even the Delaware River) that can be seen from the road there.
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 01, 2020, 04:03:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 01:33:25 PM
I don't think anyone has contested Delaware, even though it's been suggested twice now.
It does have the ocean, at least.
I've never been there but, looking on GSV, I find very little of the ocean (or even the Delaware River) that can be seen from the road there.
The part closest to Maryland has a lot of beaches and accessible coastline. Delaware Bay and then the river to the north there isn't much at all along the water.
Quote from: SectorZ on July 01, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
The part closest to Maryland has a lot of beaches and accessible coastline.
Visible from the road? If not, then they have nothing to do with "the most scenic roads".
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 29, 2020, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 29, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
Least: Oklahoma maybe?
Oklahoma has Mountains, there is always potential there. Indiana is pretty high on my own mental list of states I've frequented a good sample the road network. Louisiana wasn't really all that much of a looker either.
Oklahoma is quite scenic once you get east of US-69. Very similar to western Arkansas. US-59, US-271, US-270, and US-259 are worth a trip via GSV if you don't have the chance to drive for real.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 30, 2020, 08:52:05 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 30, 2020, 06:17:30 AM
Most: Arkansas (NW half).
Least: Arkansas (SE half).
I kind of thought US 65 was an interesting Highway if not kind of scenic. Lake Chicot even has an overlook at the state visitor center.
We always stop at that visitor center when in that area. That lake and visitor center, and perhaps Lake Providence, are pretty much the only things I look forward to when transiting that area between Little Rock and Tallulah. Sure would be nice to get a quicker connection to I-20 if they'd take the Future I-530 on past Monticello and along US-425.
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on July 01, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
The part closest to Maryland has a lot of beaches and accessible coastline.
Visible from the road? If not, then they have nothing to do with "the most scenic roads".
I'd say the coast is pretty visible from the road... https://goo.gl/maps/nHTDo42uVjigk9oC7
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 02, 2020, 09:35:49 AM
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on July 01, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
The part closest to Maryland has a lot of beaches and accessible coastline.
Visible from the road? If not, then they have nothing to do with "the most scenic roads".
I'd say the coast is pretty visible from the road... https://goo.gl/maps/nHTDo42uVjigk9oC7
OK, so the coast is visible from a total 0.5 miles of Delaware highways?
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 10:20:56 AM
so the coast is visible from a total 0.5 miles of Delaware highways?
The coast doesn't have to be visible for it to count as scenic. By Seaway Trail standards (LOL), 0.5 miles is quite a bit...
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 01, 2020, 04:03:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 01:33:25 PM
I don't think anyone has contested Delaware, even though it's been suggested twice now.
It does have the ocean, at least.
I've never been there but, looking on GSV, I find very little of the ocean (or even the Delaware River) that can be seen from the road there.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 02, 2020, 09:35:49 AM
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on July 01, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
The part closest to Maryland has a lot of beaches and accessible coastline.
Visible from the road? If not, then they have nothing to do with "the most scenic roads".
I'd say the coast is pretty visible from the road... https://goo.gl/maps/nHTDo42uVjigk9oC7
Quote from: webny99 on July 02, 2020, 12:52:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 10:20:56 AM
so the coast is visible from a total 0.5 miles of Delaware highways?
The coast doesn't have to be visible for it to count as scenic. By Seaway Trail standards (LOL), 0.5 miles is quite a bit...
No but, if the coast isn't visible, then what does it have to do with Delaware "having the ocean, at least"?
Well, that's just it. Maybe the people that designated the Seaway Trail as a National Scenic Byway have the answer. Maybe the mere presence of the body of water contributes to "scenery", even if it's not actually visible.
I honestly hadn't done any research on Delaware's coastline before posting the comment about it at least having the ocean. But you're right - it's only relevant if you can see the ocean from the road, which appears to not be the case for most of Delaware.
And the parts of DE where there are roads on the coast are packed with beach houses and condos, further blocking your view.
Quote from: 1 on June 29, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
Least: Oklahoma maybe?
Not even close. The southwestern part (near Lawton) has the Wichita Mountains, which are far bigger in person than in this GSV image: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.8405706,-98.6889449,3a,75y,84.74h,90.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTtiFiHPm4msWbVYwQroS1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.8405706,-98.6889449,3a,75y,84.74h,90.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTtiFiHPm4msWbVYwQroS1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1)
And the southeastern part has the Ouachita Mountains, as seen here from the Indian Nation Turnpike: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.4922963,-95.732884,3a,60y,184.79h,86.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZerTq53sryTvx1bhxHgJfQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
Overall, I'd rate Oklahoma as average to better than average as scenery goes. Unlike the mind-numbing boredom that is Indiana, Illinois, and the southeastern parts of NC, SC and GA that are inland.
Last spring, I had the pleasure of driving OK-46 between May and US-64 (https://goo.gl/maps/xXLw8s9DU1wMQkAA8) and US-64 between Buffalo and Alva (https://goo.gl/maps/cVKe61kGeWTDbx8G6).
That was on the way back from a camping trip with my sons in the Texas panhandle, which also gets a bad rap despite having stretches of road like this (https://goo.gl/maps/k3CpaNppJKByq8pa6) and this (https://goo.gl/maps/w6V6FdAdAZZCSj2v9) and this (https://goo.gl/maps/zJxVpWSirVjbjkXw8) and this (https://goo.gl/maps/EcXKjG2Y96Ud2Y7R6)–all of which I also had the pleasure of driving that day.
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:14:18 PM
Last spring, I had the pleasure of driving OK-46 between May and US-64 (https://goo.gl/maps/xXLw8s9DU1wMQkAA8) and US-64 between Buffalo and Alva (https://goo.gl/maps/cVKe61kGeWTDbx8G6).
That was on the way back from a camping trip with my sons in the Texas panhandle, which also gets a bad rap despite having stretches of road like this (https://goo.gl/maps/k3CpaNppJKByq8pa6) and this (https://goo.gl/maps/w6V6FdAdAZZCSj2v9) and this (https://goo.gl/maps/zJxVpWSirVjbjkXw8) and this (https://goo.gl/maps/EcXKjG2Y96Ud2Y7R6)–all of which I also had the pleasure of driving that day.
Oh yeah, the Texas panhandle has the caprock canyons, like Palo Duro! VERY scenic. No, the southern plains are actually very scenic and interesting - to me at least. And Oklahoma is NOT flat and it's NOT boring! That's just the crap that Hollywood has fed people along the coasts.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 02, 2020, 03:17:32 PM
And Oklahoma is NOT flat and it's NOT boring! That's just the crap that Hollywood has fed people along the coasts.
Actually, I think a lot of it is flat and boring. But it has enough places that aren't, that I can't call the state in general "not scenic".
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 02, 2020, 03:17:32 PM
And Oklahoma is NOT flat and it's NOT boring! That's just the crap that Hollywood has fed people along the coasts.
Actually, I think a lot of it is flat and boring. But it has enough places that aren't, that I can't call the state in general "not scenic".
This is true of most states, though. And OK has a variety of scenery that is more varied than the likes of Illinois or New Jersey or (certainly) Iowa. The eastern part is "green country" with the Ouachita's that look Appalachian. The SE corner even has thick pine forests like Mississippi has (near Idabel). The central part has rolling hills and low trees/prairie - and is drier. Farther west is drier still with small mountain ranges in SW OK that look western. And then there's the panhandle with volcanic Black Mesa. There's a lot to see really.
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 10:20:56 AM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 02, 2020, 09:35:49 AM
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on July 01, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
The part closest to Maryland has a lot of beaches and accessible coastline.
Visible from the road? If not, then they have nothing to do with "the most scenic roads".
I'd say the coast is pretty visible from the road... https://goo.gl/maps/nHTDo42uVjigk9oC7
OK, so the coast is visible from a total 0.5 miles of Delaware highways?
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Quote from: thspfc on July 02, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Neither one. I simply realized nobody had challenged the suggestion that Delaware has the least scenic roads, and I didn't think "it has the ocean" was a legitimate counter-argument, considering that the ocean isn't really visible from the state's roads.
Has anyone mentioned Florida?
Except for US 1 through the Keys and an occasional spectacular bridge, the inland highways go through low grasslands, citrus groves, and swamps. Along the coasts, development is everywhere.
For those who diss the Midwest:
The Flint Hills of Kansas are simply gorgeous. Almost like they were hand-formed by God. Worth seeing in summer green, and winter orange.
If you think Iowa is flat, you haven't spent much time in Iowa. Iowa, bordered as it is by two great rivers, rolls. Northeast Iowa is particularly hilly, and southwest Iowa includes the Loess Hills, which are found nowhere else in the world.
Northern Indiana features dunes along Lake Michigan, some of which are visible from I-94, and US 12 runs right through the heart of them.
I haven't found much redeeming about Illinois, though, and I've lived about two-thirds of my life in Illinois. I-55 in Illinois has to be one of the most boring roads anywhere. Maybe US 20 out by Galena? Lake Shore Dive in Chicago? No, not enough.
Quote from: Konza on July 02, 2020, 04:21:54 PM
I haven't found much redeeming about Illinois, though, and I've lived about two-thirds of my life in Illinois.
Spent much time south of Route 13?
https://goo.gl/maps/Cw8jWynvNHYY7tBZ8 (https://goo.gl/maps/Cw8jWynvNHYY7tBZ8)
https://goo.gl/maps/b8pnJ7vRKUr4wLon6 (https://goo.gl/maps/b8pnJ7vRKUr4wLon6)
https://goo.gl/maps/tmyJveFVDkoFHcKaA (https://goo.gl/maps/tmyJveFVDkoFHcKaA)
https://goo.gl/maps/xogZsda3Nfra5FRu7 (https://goo.gl/maps/xogZsda3Nfra5FRu7)
https://goo.gl/maps/wbnTLT543ufW675U7 (https://goo.gl/maps/wbnTLT543ufW675U7)
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2020, 09:49:30 PM
The three northern New England states have some really nice roads. For least scenic, Rhode Island beats out Connecticut because Connecticut has the Merritt parkway. Other states can have nice roads too, but they can also have tons of boring ones.
How in the world do you beat CASR-1/CASR-35/CASR-92 and I-280 in the same hour? And all of that is within an hour or so of my house. Well, maybe you beat it with I-405/US-101 and CASR-1 again in LA County? Or maybe you beat it with I-5, the Coronado Bridge and a few others in San Diego County. Or maybe you beat it with US-101 and CASR-41 in San Luis Obispo County. Or maybe you beat it with CASR-1 and US-101 in Santa Barbara County. Or maybe you beat it with the view from US-50 in El Dorado County. Or maybe you beat it with .... in California.
Puerto Rico has some very nice scenery, but not much of it is visible from the roads (at least not near San Juan).
Maybe along Av. Viera Souto to Av. Niemeyer to Cam. Tijuca in Rio de Janeiro, but those are all local streets.
For least scenic, I would like to nominate Louisiana. Very flat and its only real highlights are long bridges over open water (Ponchatrain Expressway, particularly). The scenery away from water has got to be the worst, with boring farmland in the west and boring forest in the east. Its hills aren't that good, either.
Reminds me, could Interstate 12 potentially win the title of least scenic interstate?
Quote from: michravera on July 02, 2020, 04:39:29 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2020, 09:49:30 PM
The three northern New England states have some really nice roads. For least scenic, Rhode Island beats out Connecticut because Connecticut has the Merritt parkway. Other states can have nice roads too, but they can also have tons of boring ones.
How in the world do you beat CASR-1/CASR-35/CASR-92 and I-280 in the same hour? And all of that is within an hour or so of my house. Well, maybe you beat it with I-405/US-101 and CASR-1 again in LA County? Or maybe you beat it with I-5, the Coronado Bridge and a few others in San Diego County. Or maybe you beat it with US-101 and CASR-41 in San Luis Obispo County. Or maybe you beat it with CASR-1 and US-101 in Santa Barbara County. Or maybe you beat it with the view from US-50 in El Dorado County. Or maybe you beat it with .... in California.
Puerto Rico has some very nice scenery, but not much of it is visible from the roads (at least not near San Juan).
Maybe along Av. Viera Souto to Av. Niemeyer to Cam. Tijuca in Rio de Janeiro, but those are all local streets.
I was talking about the states I've traveled by road in.
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 04:38:52 PM
Quote from: Konza on July 02, 2020, 04:21:54 PM
I haven't found much redeeming about Illinois, though, and I've lived about two-thirds of my life in Illinois.
Spent much time south of Route 13?
https://goo.gl/maps/Cw8jWynvNHYY7tBZ8 (https://goo.gl/maps/Cw8jWynvNHYY7tBZ8)
https://goo.gl/maps/b8pnJ7vRKUr4wLon6 (https://goo.gl/maps/b8pnJ7vRKUr4wLon6)
https://goo.gl/maps/tmyJveFVDkoFHcKaA (https://goo.gl/maps/tmyJveFVDkoFHcKaA)
https://goo.gl/maps/xogZsda3Nfra5FRu7 (https://goo.gl/maps/xogZsda3Nfra5FRu7)
https://goo.gl/maps/wbnTLT543ufW675U7 (https://goo.gl/maps/wbnTLT543ufW675U7)
The roads you linked are nice, but nothing spectacular.
I cant believe North Carolina hasnt been mentioned more.
we have some excellent scenic roads, especially in the western side.
I-26, I-40 and US 19/23/74/441 through the Smokies. also US 129 the dragons tail. US 321 from Boone to TN is a personal favorite of mine; curvy mountain road that is also very well built and easy to maintain a nice speed.
Down east isnt bad either. although I-95 may be the least exciting road in the whole state.
Quote from: fillup420 on July 04, 2020, 12:03:05 AM
I cant believe North Carolina hasnt been mentioned more.
we have some excellent scenic roads, especially in the western side.
I-26, I-40 and US 19/23/74/441 through the Smokies. also US 129 the dragons tail. US 321 from Boone to TN is a personal favorite of mine; curvy mountain road that is also very well built and easy to maintain a nice speed.
Down east isnt bad either. although I-95 may be the least exciting road in the whole state.
Western NC is very nice, not sure of the rest of the state.
Quote from: kphoger on July 01, 2020, 11:53:30 AM
I've found most Missouri routes to be scenic.
The south can be nice with the hills, but most anything north of I-70 is dull as Central Ill. And I-35 in MO is an Iowa-style slogging nightmare.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 02, 2020, 03:17:32 PM
Oh yeah, the Texas panhandle has the caprock canyons, like Palo Duro! VERY scenic. No, the southern plains are actually very scenic and interesting - to me at least. And Oklahoma is NOT flat and it's NOT boring! That's just the crap that Hollywood has fed people along the coasts.
I agree with the Hollywood part. One notable exception to that is "Hell or High Water," which portrays panhandle/central Texas and southern OK in a very realistic light. It gives the land the respect and authenticity not often found in Hollywood films (as well as a more sympathetic portrait of rural conservatives than is usually found). It's a great movie, and even shows some of the scenic parts of this area; the climactic shootout takes place on a high ridge.
I definitely think Louisiana would be the least scenic. I decided to find the most scenic area I could there in street view, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1082914,-92.0751459,3a,75y,266h,88.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svUGIGwN3JaDBHq2YDq3m4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4) is what I came up with. As a challenge, see if you can find anything better.
The state's I've been to the most are pretty high on the list. Michigan has plenty of scenic roads. Indiana has quite a bit, Wisconsin as well. Indiana has a lot of hilly windy state roads that are fun and pretty scenic.
For Michigan though, M-26 and US-41 in the Keewanaw Peninsula beat out M-22 around Traverse City. M-25 is another scenic highway running around the rim of the thumb from Bay City to Port Huron. US-23 and US-31 are scenic as is I-75 crossing the Straits of Mackinac on that long suspension bridge that is pretty famous.
Least scenic probably Iowa.
The Ohio Turnpike is bad until you get east of the Sandusky/Norwalk area
Worst in Michigan. Even though I mentioned earlier that M-25 around the rim of the thumb is scenic the inland areas of the thumb are boring.
Save from maybe St. Clair County if you count that as the thumb some of it does have a lot in common with the thumb area.
M-57 is a boring highway west of M-52. M-52 itself I find boring between Perry and Stockbridge.
M-28 on the Seney Stretch. I just rode this on Monday of this week and it's 25 miles of straightness. Everyone was doing 70 mph through there no problem and what seemed like about 45 minutes was really about 20 minutes.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 04, 2020, 11:17:09 AM
Worst in Michigan. Even though I mentioned earlier that M-25 around the rim of the thumb is scenic the inland areas of the thumb are boring.
Save from maybe St. Clair County if you count that as the thumb some of it does have a lot in common with the thumb area.
M-57 is a boring highway west of M-52. M-52 itself I find boring between Perry and Stockbridge.
M-28 on the Seney Stretch. I just rode this on Monday of this week and it's 25 miles of straightness. Everyone was doing 70 mph through there no problem and what seemed like about 45 minutes was really about 20 minutes.
how could you forget M-22?! my favorite scenic route.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 03, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
Quote from: michravera on July 02, 2020, 04:39:29 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2020, 09:49:30 PM
The three northern New England states have some really nice roads. For least scenic, Rhode Island beats out Connecticut because Connecticut has the Merritt parkway. Other states can have nice roads too, but they can also have tons of boring ones.
How in the world do you beat CASR-1/CASR-35/CASR-92 and I-280 in the same hour? And all of that is within an hour or so of my house. Well, maybe you beat it with I-405/US-101 and CASR-1 again in LA County? Or maybe you beat it with I-5, the Coronado Bridge and a few others in San Diego County. Or maybe you beat it with US-101 and CASR-41 in San Luis Obispo County. Or maybe you beat it with CASR-1 and US-101 in Santa Barbara County. Or maybe you beat it with the view from US-50 in El Dorado County. Or maybe you beat it with .... in California.
Puerto Rico has some very nice scenery, but not much of it is visible from the roads (at least not near San Juan).
Maybe along Av. Viera Souto to Av. Niemeyer to Cam. Tijuca in Rio de Janeiro, but those are all local streets.
I was talking about the states I've traveled by road in.
So, this is limited to Roadgeekteen's experience?
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 04, 2020, 07:43:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 04, 2020, 11:17:09 AM
Worst in Michigan. Even though I mentioned earlier that M-25 around the rim of the thumb is scenic the inland areas of the thumb are boring.
Save from maybe St. Clair County if you count that as the thumb some of it does have a lot in common with the thumb area.
M-57 is a boring highway west of M-52. M-52 itself I find boring between Perry and Stockbridge.
M-28 on the Seney Stretch. I just rode this on Monday of this week and it's 25 miles of straightness. Everyone was doing 70 mph through there no problem and what seemed like about 45 minutes was really about 20 minutes.
how could you forget M-22?! my favorite scenic route.
M-22 is pretty top notch but I prefer M-26 because of the scenery and cool mining town backdrops.
Quote from: michravera on July 04, 2020, 09:23:16 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 03, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
Quote from: michravera on July 02, 2020, 04:39:29 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2020, 09:49:30 PM
The three northern New England states have some really nice roads. For least scenic, Rhode Island beats out Connecticut because Connecticut has the Merritt parkway. Other states can have nice roads too, but they can also have tons of boring ones.
How in the world do you beat CASR-1/CASR-35/CASR-92 and I-280 in the same hour? And all of that is within an hour or so of my house. Well, maybe you beat it with I-405/US-101 and CASR-1 again in LA County? Or maybe you beat it with I-5, the Coronado Bridge and a few others in San Diego County. Or maybe you beat it with US-101 and CASR-41 in San Luis Obispo County. Or maybe you beat it with CASR-1 and US-101 in Santa Barbara County. Or maybe you beat it with the view from US-50 in El Dorado County. Or maybe you beat it with .... in California.
Puerto Rico has some very nice scenery, but not much of it is visible from the roads (at least not near San Juan).
Maybe along Av. Viera Souto to Av. Niemeyer to Cam. Tijuca in Rio de Janeiro, but those are all local streets.
I was talking about the states I've traveled by road in.
So, this is limited to Roadgeekteen's experience?
No, but my answer kinda was.
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 04, 2020, 07:43:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 04, 2020, 11:17:09 AM
Worst in Michigan. Even though I mentioned earlier that M-25 around the rim of the thumb is scenic the inland areas of the thumb are boring.
Save from maybe St. Clair County if you count that as the thumb some of it does have a lot in common with the thumb area.
M-57 is a boring highway west of M-52. M-52 itself I find boring between Perry and Stockbridge.
M-28 on the Seney Stretch. I just rode this on Monday of this week and it's 25 miles of straightness. Everyone was doing 70 mph through there no problem and what seemed like about 45 minutes was really about 20 minutes.
how could you forget M-22?! my favorite scenic route.
M-22 would be on the best list along with M-26. The ones I mentioned here are the worst ones.
Minnesota's one issue (in my view) is extending some scenic byway designations too far, such as the St. Croix Scenic Byway, which could probably end at Taylors Falls or Wild River State Park but for some reason extends another 45 miles west and north on MN 95 and old US 61 to Hinckley beyond that, even though you move inland from the river and there's nothing to see. The Waters of the Dancing Sky byway heading west could similarly end at about Warroad, but continues on MN 11/US 59/MN 175 all the way to the ND border even though Kittson and Roseau counties are boring as hell.
The Minnesota River Valley byway is underrated, especially the MN 7 sections along Big Stone Lake and MN 68 from New Ulm to Mankato.
Regarding California I've been having a hard time coming up with a highway that really doesn't offer any subjectively scenery that one might want to see. That said CA 137 came to mind as probably one of the lowest tier rural highways in terms of scenic value. Aside from odd 90 degree turns and a jog through downtown Tulare rest of the Highway is featureless farm land. At least nearby CA 43 has the advantage of being a fantastic rail fanning and ghost towning corridor. Even the most vanilla urban surface highways tend to have value given they are usually a gold mine for odd signage or convoluted legislative histories.
With Arizona the most bland State Highway I can think of is AZ 72. The only thing AZ 72 has going for it is a tank memorial in Bouse.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 04, 2020, 09:39:17 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 04, 2020, 07:43:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 04, 2020, 11:17:09 AM
Worst in Michigan. Even though I mentioned earlier that M-25 around the rim of the thumb is scenic the inland areas of the thumb are boring.
Save from maybe St. Clair County if you count that as the thumb some of it does have a lot in common with the thumb area.
M-57 is a boring highway west of M-52. M-52 itself I find boring between Perry and Stockbridge.
M-28 on the Seney Stretch. I just rode this on Monday of this week and it's 25 miles of straightness. Everyone was doing 70 mph through there no problem and what seemed like about 45 minutes was really about 20 minutes.
how could you forget M-22?! my favorite scenic route.
M-22 is pretty top notch but I prefer M-26 because of the scenery and cool mining town backdrops.
I prefer M-26 over M-22 as well. I love those old mining towns. When I went to the northern terminus of US-41 I took M-26 back to Phoenix and then rejoined US-41 there. It's a bit longer but I like the scenery better along M-26.
Quote from: bm7 on July 04, 2020, 01:54:24 AM
I definitely think Louisiana would be the least scenic. I decided to find the most scenic area I could there in street view, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1082914,-92.0751459,3a,75y,266h,88.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svUGIGwN3JaDBHq2YDq3m4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4) is what I came up with. As a challenge, see if you can find anything better.
Here's my best I can think of:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9406561,-90.3749306,3a,75y,246.7h,83.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHK9LyZjNfMJG6GTptx6jGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.7194649,-91.3543363,3a,75y,72.04h,99.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUFMnhYX6zuChWD-Fk0bawQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.1972033,-93.5724435,3a,75y,252.65h,82.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC3R3wrcTtE5GQHtszOpYMg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!5m1!1e4
(almost not even Louisiana here)
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 06, 2020, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: bm7 on July 04, 2020, 01:54:24 AM
I definitely think Louisiana would be the least scenic. I decided to find the most scenic area I could there in street view, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1082914,-92.0751459,3a,75y,266h,88.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svUGIGwN3JaDBHq2YDq3m4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4) is what I came up with. As a challenge, see if you can find anything better.
Here's my best I can think of:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9406561,-90.3749306,3a,75y,246.7h,83.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHK9LyZjNfMJG6GTptx6jGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.7194649,-91.3543363,3a,75y,72.04h,99.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUFMnhYX6zuChWD-Fk0bawQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.1972033,-93.5724435,3a,75y,252.65h,82.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC3R3wrcTtE5GQHtszOpYMg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!5m1!1e4
(almost not even Louisiana here)
IMO places don't need hills to be scenic. As someone who lives nowhere near an ocean, I would consider this (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.2361593,-90.1979797,3a,27.4y,159.56h,93.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6dH8WpsmtauQAiUmi_6Klg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4/) scenic. A sunset would be even more gorgeous. My Boy Scout troop went on a president's day outing to Dauphin Island, AL, and it was breathtaking. The oil rigs did mar the sunset view a bit, though.
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 02, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Neither one. I simply realized nobody had challenged the suggestion that Delaware has the least scenic roads, and I didn't think "it has the ocean" was a legitimate counter-argument, considering that the ocean isn't really visible from the state's roads.
So, I was following this conversation last week knowing there was a decent chance I could drive some of Delaware's roads this weekend, and sure enough, it happened.
I have no issues with Delaware being designated State With The Least Scenic Roads™. I didn't see anything of particular interest throughout the entire length of the state. Just boring landscape, stoplights, strip malls, and plenty out-of-state license plates.
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 02, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Neither one. I simply realized nobody had challenged the suggestion that Delaware has the least scenic roads, and I didn't think "it has the ocean" was a legitimate counter-argument, considering that the ocean isn't really visible from the state's roads.
So, I was following this conversation last week knowing there was a decent chance I could drive some of Delaware's roads this weekend, and sure enough, it happened.
I have no issues with Delaware being designated State With The Least Scenic Roads™. I didn't see anything of particular interest throughout the entire length of the state. Just boring landscape, stoplights, strip malls, and plenty out-of-state license plates.
There is some coast that might be nice if you don't live near the ocean.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 02, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Neither one. I simply realized nobody had challenged the suggestion that Delaware has the least scenic roads, and I didn't think "it has the ocean" was a legitimate counter-argument, considering that the ocean isn't really visible from the state's roads.
So, I was following this conversation last week knowing there was a decent chance I could drive some of Delaware's roads this weekend, and sure enough, it happened.
I have no issues with Delaware being designated State With The Least Scenic Roads™. I didn't see anything of particular interest throughout the entire length of the state. Just boring landscape, stoplights, strip malls, and plenty out-of-state license plates.
There is some coast that might be nice if you don't live near the ocean.
Where is that coast visible from the road, other than atop the Indian River Inlet Bridge?
Quote from: kphoger on July 07, 2020, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 02, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Neither one. I simply realized nobody had challenged the suggestion that Delaware has the least scenic roads, and I didn't think "it has the ocean" was a legitimate counter-argument, considering that the ocean isn't really visible from the state's roads.
So, I was following this conversation last week knowing there was a decent chance I could drive some of Delaware's roads this weekend, and sure enough, it happened.
I have no issues with Delaware being designated State With The Least Scenic Roads™. I didn't see anything of particular interest throughout the entire length of the state. Just boring landscape, stoplights, strip malls, and plenty out-of-state license plates.
There is some coast that might be nice if you don't live near the ocean.
Where is that coast visible from the road, other than atop the Indian River Inlet Bridge?
I-295, although it might be considered a river.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 05:51:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 07, 2020, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 02, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Neither one. I simply realized nobody had challenged the suggestion that Delaware has the least scenic roads, and I didn't think "it has the ocean" was a legitimate counter-argument, considering that the ocean isn't really visible from the state's roads.
So, I was following this conversation last week knowing there was a decent chance I could drive some of Delaware's roads this weekend, and sure enough, it happened.
I have no issues with Delaware being designated State With The Least Scenic Roads[emoji769]. I didn't see anything of particular interest throughout the entire length of the state. Just boring landscape, stoplights, strip malls, and plenty out-of-state license plates.
There is some coast that might be nice if you don't live near the ocean.
Where is that coast visible from the road, other than atop the Indian River Inlet Bridge?
I-295, although it might be considered a river.
I-295 goes over the Delaware River. That's not a coast.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 07, 2020, 08:10:37 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 05:51:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 07, 2020, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 02, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Neither one. I simply realized nobody had challenged the suggestion that Delaware has the least scenic roads, and I didn't think "it has the ocean" was a legitimate counter-argument, considering that the ocean isn't really visible from the state's roads.
So, I was following this conversation last week knowing there was a decent chance I could drive some of Delaware's roads this weekend, and sure enough, it happened.
I have no issues with Delaware being designated State With The Least Scenic Roads[emoji769]. I didn't see anything of particular interest throughout the entire length of the state. Just boring landscape, stoplights, strip malls, and plenty out-of-state license plates.
There is some coast that might be nice if you don't live near the ocean.
Where is that coast visible from the road, other than atop the Indian River Inlet Bridge?
I-295, although it might be considered a river.
I-295 goes over the Delaware River. That's not a coast.
I think that US 9 also goes right to the ocean, and I think DE 1 is next to it to.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 07, 2020, 08:10:37 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 05:51:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 07, 2020, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 02, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Neither one. I simply realized nobody had challenged the suggestion that Delaware has the least scenic roads, and I didn't think "it has the ocean" was a legitimate counter-argument, considering that the ocean isn't really visible from the state's roads.
So, I was following this conversation last week knowing there was a decent chance I could drive some of Delaware's roads this weekend, and sure enough, it happened.
I have no issues with Delaware being designated State With The Least Scenic Roads[emoji769]. I didn't see anything of particular interest throughout the entire length of the state. Just boring landscape, stoplights, strip malls, and plenty out-of-state license plates.
There is some coast that might be nice if you don't live near the ocean.
Where is that coast visible from the road, other than atop the Indian River Inlet Bridge?
I-295, although it might be considered a river.
I-295 goes over the Delaware River. That's not a coast.
I think that US 9 also goes right to the ocean, and I think DE 1 is next to it to.
The US-9 ferry goes over the entrance to the Delaware Bay which is the outlet of the Delaware River. I guess you could say Delaware has about 20 miles or so of coast but the only highway that goes along it is DE-1.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 08, 2020, 12:00:33 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 07, 2020, 08:10:37 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 05:51:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 07, 2020, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 02, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Neither one. I simply realized nobody had challenged the suggestion that Delaware has the least scenic roads, and I didn't think "it has the ocean" was a legitimate counter-argument, considering that the ocean isn't really visible from the state's roads.
So, I was following this conversation last week knowing there was a decent chance I could drive some of Delaware's roads this weekend, and sure enough, it happened.
I have no issues with Delaware being designated State With The Least Scenic Roads[emoji769]. I didn't see anything of particular interest throughout the entire length of the state. Just boring landscape, stoplights, strip malls, and plenty out-of-state license plates.
There is some coast that might be nice if you don't live near the ocean.
Where is that coast visible from the road, other than atop the Indian River Inlet Bridge?
I-295, although it might be considered a river.
I-295 goes over the Delaware River. That's not a coast.
I think that US 9 also goes right to the ocean, and I think DE 1 is next to it to.
The US-9 ferry goes over the entrance to the Delaware Bay which is the outlet of the Delaware River. I guess you could say Delaware has about 20 miles or so of coast but the only highway that goes along it is DE-1.
Is the Delaware Bay fresh or salt water?
Even if all of those edge cases are accepted, we're still only up to three individual points at which the "ocean" or "coast" or whatever is visible from the road.
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2020, 11:05:03 AM
Even if all of those edge cases are accepted, we're still only up to three individual points at which the "ocean" or "coast" or whatever is visible from the road.
Yeah, I think that Deleware clearly wins the worst contest.
As for the best... I haven't been to California in years, and I only saw its roads by bus window, but I think it would be hard to beat Colorado for scenery.
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2020, 01:30:05 PM
As for the best... I haven't been to California in years, and I only saw its roads by bus window, but I think it would be hard to beat Colorado for scenery.
I might put California first simply because it has more variety.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2020, 02:39:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 08, 2020, 01:30:05 PM
As for the best... I haven't been to California in years, and I only saw its roads by bus window, but I think it would be hard to beat Colorado for scenery.
I might put California first simply because it has more variety.
Yeah, Colorado has
mountains (https://goo.gl/maps/o48FBgJ4LfgHETJ27),
grassland (https://goo.gl/maps/Sh6AyjM1hxezdFbPA),
semi-desert (https://goo.gl/maps/zyibNN2uDt4wxFGf7),
lakes (https://goo.gl/maps/oNnoBW8VxexqxFBe6),
farmland (https://goo.gl/maps/kmZkf5LY5neCCoag7), and
fun geological features (https://goo.gl/maps/jF8wmwB7RMR3ecfBA).
But so does California. And it has
this (https://goo.gl/maps/xNaBP5dTSQWkQQjx8), which Colorado doesn't.
New York has almost as much variety of California and/or Colorado, but a lot of it is not as dramatic.
The only thing California has that New York doesn't is desert.
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 03:19:06 PM
New York has almost as much variety of California and/or Colorado, but a lot of it is not as dramatic.
The only thing California has that New York doesn't is desert.
New York's coastline is kinda lame, although seeing skyscrapers over the water is kinda cool.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2020, 05:59:37 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 03:19:06 PM
New York has almost as much variety of California and/or Colorado, but a lot of it is not as dramatic.
The only thing California has that New York doesn't is desert.
New York's coastline is kinda lame, although seeing skyscrapers over the water is kinda cool.
There's the Long Island coastline, too. And parts of the Great Lakes coastline are scenic, like Chimney Bluffs.
I guess the way I look at it is if I could only drive in one state the rest of my life, money and living arrangement considerations aside, I'd choose California and it wouldn't be close.
If I could only drive in 49 states the rest of my life, the state I'd give up would be Nebraska, Kansas or Delaware.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2020, 12:28:59 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 08, 2020, 12:00:33 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 07, 2020, 08:10:37 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 05:51:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 07, 2020, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 02, 2020, 03:45:56 PM
Why do you hate Delaware so much? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of being difficult?
Neither one. I simply realized nobody had challenged the suggestion that Delaware has the least scenic roads, and I didn't think "it has the ocean" was a legitimate counter-argument, considering that the ocean isn't really visible from the state's roads.
So, I was following this conversation last week knowing there was a decent chance I could drive some of Delaware's roads this weekend, and sure enough, it happened.
I have no issues with Delaware being designated State With The Least Scenic Roads[emoji769]. I didn't see anything of particular interest throughout the entire length of the state. Just boring landscape, stoplights, strip malls, and plenty out-of-state license plates.
There is some coast that might be nice if you don't live near the ocean.
Where is that coast visible from the road, other than atop the Indian River Inlet Bridge?
I-295, although it might be considered a river.
I-295 goes over the Delaware River. That's not a coast.
I think that US 9 also goes right to the ocean, and I think DE 1 is next to it to.
The US-9 ferry goes over the entrance to the Delaware Bay which is the outlet of the Delaware River. I guess you could say Delaware has about 20 miles or so of coast but the only highway that goes along it is DE-1.
Is the Delaware Bay fresh or salt water?
It's both. The closer to the ocean the more saltier the water is, closer to the Delaware Memorial Bridge it becomes more fresh water.
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 06:02:15 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2020, 05:59:37 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 03:19:06 PM
New York has almost as much variety of California and/or Colorado, but a lot of it is not as dramatic.
The only thing California has that New York doesn't is desert.
New York's coastline is kinda lame, although seeing skyscrapers over the water is kinda cool.
There's the Long Island coastline, too. And parts of the Great Lakes coastline are scenic, like Chimney Bluffs.
But strictly in a discussion about the scenic roads, this was about all I could find for an actual lake view (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2762938,-77.2750822,3a,75y,323.36h,83.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNLOem9AHWvskRXGX4pbDCA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) as the roads mostly remain inland and out of sight of the lake.
Obviously I'm biased, but this (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.7749843,-90.2384942,3a,75y,153.15h,87.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUsGvfCQbip_5G5GQC9qKaw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664) will always be my baseline for a Great Lakes view, right or wrong.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 02, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 02, 2020, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 02, 2020, 03:17:32 PM
And Oklahoma is NOT flat and it's NOT boring! That's just the crap that Hollywood has fed people along the coasts.
Actually, I think a lot of it is flat and boring. But it has enough places that aren't, that I can't call the state in general "not scenic".
This is true of most states, though. And OK has a variety of scenery that is more varied than the likes of Illinois or New Jersey or (certainly) Iowa. The eastern part is "green country" with the Ouachita's that look Appalachian. The SE corner even has thick pine forests like Mississippi has (near Idabel). The central part has rolling hills and low trees/prairie - and is drier. Farther west is drier still with small mountain ranges in SW OK that look western. And then there's the panhandle with volcanic Black Mesa. There's a lot to see really.
The thing about Oklahoma is that its geography changes so much from east to west that you can't categorize it as any one thing. You'd have to break it down by county. Oklahoma has a dozen or so awful counties, but most of them have some at least something to mitigate boredom (keeping in mind that the scenery presented may not be everyone's cup of tea, if you have a 'only forests and mountains can be scenic' outlook) or are actively scenic (you have to search a bit to find a spot in Murray County that sucks). But a complaint I've never had about Oklahoma is that it's boring to look at.
Quote from: cabiness42 on July 08, 2020, 06:03:29 PM
If I could only drive in 49 states the rest of my life, the state I'd give up would be Nebraska, Kansas or Delaware.
The eastern half of Kansas is pretty nice-looking (bleeding over from actively-scenic Missouri), and if you're a roadgeek, the infrastructure throughout the state is very well done and offers its own sort of scenery. KDOT standard bridge designs are quite a bit more pleasant than those of the surrounding states, and signage is second to none.
If you have to ditch a central state, ditch Nebraska or Iowa.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 08, 2020, 06:57:24 PM
If you have to ditch a central state, ditch Nebraska or Iowa.
Mountain Time Nebraska is actually pretty nice; not amazing, but better than a lot of places.
Being from the Northeast, I'm actually intrigued by plains scenery.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2020, 09:41:51 PM
Being from the Northeast, I'm actually intrigued by plains scenery.
If you want plains, I highly recommend the NY Thruway between Syracuse and Buffalo.
Quote from: Ben114 on July 08, 2020, 10:01:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2020, 09:41:51 PM
Being from the Northeast, I'm actually intrigued by plains scenery.
If you want plains, I highly recommend the NY Thruway between Syracuse and Buffalo.
Real plains (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2233564,-102.3158377,3a,75y,277.47h,92.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1R-PDMdZbhpKBH0W-h4amQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) don't have trees (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0230815,-100.0526159,3a,75y,88.25h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6D4rFOszlpfxyIauri9z1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), my guy.
Quote from: Ben114 on July 08, 2020, 10:01:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2020, 09:41:51 PM
Being from the Northeast, I'm actually intrigued by plains scenery.
If you want plains, I highly recommend the NY Thruway between Syracuse and Buffalo.
How is that "plains"?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 08, 2020, 06:30:52 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 06:02:15 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2020, 05:59:37 PM
New York's coastline is kinda lame, although seeing skyscrapers over the water is kinda cool.
There's the Long Island coastline, too. And parts of the Great Lakes coastline are scenic, like Chimney Bluffs.
But strictly in a discussion about the scenic roads, this was about all I could find for an actual lake view (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2762938,-77.2750822,3a,75y,323.36h,83.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNLOem9AHWvskRXGX4pbDCA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) as the roads mostly remain inland and out of sight of the lake.
That's true for the most part, but not everywhere. Make sure you don't miss this stop sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2815256,-77.1811967,3a,75y,344.39h,86.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLPJp_OXiqO9v6oZnHzR60A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), for example. The lake is also visible at points along the Lake Ontario State Parkway (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3751724,-78.1303477,3a,90y,314.67h,84.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgd9sjW2vXI18tfr4eKkHVg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and NY 18 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3206615,-78.8157146,3a,75y,305.37h,84.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjlUjSmaKZXVdxKZvQ82Vxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). And it's not just the Great Lakes: There's the Finger Lakes, the lakes in the Adirondacks, the Thousand Islands, and the list goes on. There's plenty of this type of lakeshore road (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5258833,-77.1539158,3a,75y,148.19h,85.58t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOA9Ru16iGmsI6XwbpoGVVg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DOA9Ru16iGmsI6XwbpoGVVg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D201.84608%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) throughout the state that usually meet my definition of "scenic", but YMMV.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 08, 2020, 06:30:52 PM
Obviously I'm biased, but this (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.7749843,-90.2384942,3a,75y,153.15h,87.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUsGvfCQbip_5G5GQC9qKaw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664) will always be my baseline for a Great Lakes view, right or wrong.
I'm biased too, but not towards anything in NY... US 2 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.9718037,-84.9551437,3a,75y,173.89h,83.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1se1KPo4VDkj7RAXQg80vXtA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), M 28 (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4384769,-86.6844808,3a,75y,309.42h,94.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPbmj9Eb3OGpkrXYaCFY9nQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), and M 35 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.2490481,-87.4888219,3a,75y,84.13h,80.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spk_RVj1fCCg_1JG0qSZ5hQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in particular are some of my favorites. Driving M 35 early on a July morning and getting peeks of the sunrise coming up over Lake Michigan while the logging truck traffic whizzed by was hands-down the best hour I've ever spent on the road.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2020, 10:20:15 PM
Quote from: Ben114 on July 08, 2020, 10:01:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2020, 09:41:51 PM
Being from the Northeast, I'm actually intrigued by plains scenery.
If you want plains, I highly recommend the NY Thruway between Syracuse and Buffalo.
How is that "plains"?
plain/plān/
adjectivenot decorated or elaborate; simple or ordinary in character?
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 08, 2020, 10:17:02 PM
Real plains (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2233564,-102.3158377,3a,75y,277.47h,92.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1R-PDMdZbhpKBH0W-h4amQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) don't have trees (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0230815,-100.0526159,3a,75y,88.25h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6D4rFOszlpfxyIauri9z1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), my guy.
Yeah, Upstate NY is not the place to be if you're looking for plains. This is as close as it gets (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9890115,-76.7601043,3a,75y,257.63h,88.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spUcWh_RrIBbczEbD3FQGeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
My home state of Massachusetts is quite average when it comes too roads, the nicest roads are in the Boston area with some nice urban scenery. There are some nice coastal roads, and some mountain scenery out west, but New Hampshire and Vermont have much better mountains than Massachusetts.
So, how do we actually measure "most scenic" in some sort of non-subjective way?
Here's a few building blocks to work from:
(1) Quality of the scenery: advantage western states
(2) Quantity of roads that are scenic: advantage larger states
(3) Percentage of roads that are scenic: Vermont wins, hands down! Why hasn't Vermont come up more often in this thread?
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 11:04:22 PM
So, how do we actually measure "most scenic" in some sort of non-subjective way?
You can't, because "scenic" is a value judgment and is inherently subjective.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 09, 2020, 04:03:17 AM
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 11:04:22 PM
So, how do we actually measure "most scenic" in some sort of non-subjective way?
You can't, because "scenic" is a value judgment and is inherently subjective.
True, but there are things everyone can agree on, like California is more scenic than Delaware, and Colorado is more scenic than Iowa.
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 10:39:42 PM
Driving M 35 early on a July morning and getting peeks of the sunrise coming up over Lake Huron while the logging truck traffic whizzed by was hands-down the best hour I've ever spent on the road.
If you can see Lake Huron from M-35 you have excellent vision.
Owing to its boring topography and wooded nature, South Carolina is definitely towards the bottom for scenic routes. US 21 as it ends, transitioning onto Hunting Island is neat, and some of the roads near the microscopic sliver SC has of the Appalachians can be kind of nice, but there's overall not much.
Quote from: webny99 on July 09, 2020, 08:24:04 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 09, 2020, 04:03:17 AM
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 11:04:22 PM
So, how do we actually measure "most scenic" in some sort of non-subjective way?
You can't, because "scenic" is a value judgment and is inherently subjective.
True, but there are things everyone can agree on, like California is more scenic than Delaware, and Colorado is more scenic than Iowa.
I would still say that's subjective, even things like I-80 in Nebraska has it's fans on this forum.
Quote from: index on July 09, 2020, 12:09:05 PM
Owing to its boring topography and wooded nature, South Carolina is definitely towards the bottom for scenic routes. US 21 as it ends, transitioning onto Hunting Island is neat, and some of the roads near the microscopic sliver SC has of the Appalachians can be kind of nice, but there's overall not much.
I've always liked that wooden nature of the highway system in South Carolina. I wouldn't put it in the top half of States but I can definitely think of at least five that are more boring.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 09, 2020, 12:09:33 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 09, 2020, 08:24:04 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 09, 2020, 04:03:17 AM
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 11:04:22 PM
So, how do we actually measure "most scenic" in some sort of non-subjective way?
You can't, because "scenic" is a value judgment and is inherently subjective.
True, but there are things everyone can agree on, like California is more scenic than Delaware, and Colorado is more scenic than Iowa.
I would still say that’s subjective, even things like I-80 in Nebraska has it’s fans on this forum.
I myself actually quite like the aesthetic of the Great Plains...but I'm definitely an outlier. The general consensus is that it's not a particularly scenic area, so it makes sense to use how most people would think as the measure for how scenic something is. 19 times out of 20 if you ask someone to pick between Delaware or California for natural beauty they'll pick California, and those that pick Delaware usually have ties to the area. As someone who's never seen plains before except for a 45-minute layover in Denver, they look neat to me.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 09, 2020, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: index on July 09, 2020, 12:09:05 PM
Owing to its boring topography and wooded nature, South Carolina is definitely towards the bottom for scenic routes. US 21 as it ends, transitioning onto Hunting Island is neat, and some of the roads near the microscopic sliver SC has of the Appalachians can be kind of nice, but there's overall not much.
I’ve always liked that wooden nature of the highway system in South Carolina. I wouldn’t put it in the top half of States but I can definitely think of at least five that are more boring.
I'm probably biased against woodlands due to how used I am to them. It's nothing particularly special to me, and they can get dreadfully boring. See: I-85 in Virginia. Wooded median, nothing but you, the road, and trees on both sides for ages. However, I have friends out west (especially from the Midwest) who would kill to get a taste of foliage when they're on the road.
Quote from: GaryV on July 09, 2020, 12:03:12 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 10:39:42 PM
Driving M 35 early on a July morning and getting peeks of the sunrise coming up over Lake Huron while the logging truck traffic whizzed by was hands-down the best hour I've ever spent on the road.
If you can see Lake Huron from M-35 you have excellent vision.
Whoops. I meant Lake Michigan. Fixed.
Quote from: webny99 on July 09, 2020, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: GaryV on July 09, 2020, 12:03:12 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 08, 2020, 10:39:42 PM
Driving M 35 early on a July morning and getting peeks of the sunrise coming up over Lake Huron while the logging truck traffic whizzed by was hands-down the best hour I've ever spent on the road.
If you can see Lake Huron from M-35 you have excellent vision.
Whoops. I meant Lake Michigan. Fixed.
Actually what you were seeing was Green Bay but that's an arm of Lake Michigan so close enough.
Ok I'll try to sort the states into categories:
1. Amazing Scenery Nearly Everywhere
Hawaii
California
Colorado
Alaska
2. Widespread Great Scenery
Washington
Vermont
West Virginia
Oregon
Maine
3. Great Scenery In Many Places
Arizona
New Hampshire
New York
Utah
New Mexico
Wyoming
Nevada
Idaho
Pennsylvania
Montana
4. Good Scenery, If You Know Where To Look
Texas
Tennessee
North Carolina
Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Arkansas
5. Decent Scenery In Localized Areas
Massachusetts
Michigan
Connecticut
Rhode Island
Illinois
Georgia
North Dakota
South Dakota
Maryland
6. Mediocre Scenery
Alabama
Mississippi
Wisconsin
Ohio
South Carolina
Florida
7. Generally Boring
Iowa
Illinois
Indiana
New Jersey
Oklahoma
Kansas
Nebraska
8. Bottom Of The Barrel
Louisiana
Delaware
Illinois was duplicated. It is in both #5 and #7. I would have it in #5 because of the "Illinois Ozarks"/Shawnee Nat'l Forest.
Colorado probably falls into Category 2. For the amazing stuff it has, it's still checked a bit by the eastern half being boring plains.
Massachusetts would probably fit into category 2, as most of the state is nice, except with a swath of "eh."
That "eh" area would be anywhere within 20 miles of downtown Boston (with the exception of regions to the southeast and northeast).
I would for sure put Michigan above the 5th category. Decent scenery?
And I don't find Indiana boring at all especially the southern part.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 11, 2020, 09:37:56 PM
Colorado probably falls into Category 2. For the amazing stuff it has, it's still checked a bit by the eastern half being boring plains.
Well California also has the boring Central Valley.
Quote from: Ben114 on July 11, 2020, 10:08:39 PM
Massachusetts would probably fit into category 2, as most of the state is nice, except with a swath of "eh."
That "eh" area would be anywhere within 20 miles of downtown Boston (with the exception of regions to the southeast and northeast).
There are nice roads, but nothing spectacular.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 12, 2020, 12:11:45 AM
Quote from: Ben114 on July 11, 2020, 10:08:39 PM
Massachusetts would probably fit into category 2, as most of the state is nice, except with a swath of "eh."
That "eh" area would be anywhere within 20 miles of downtown Boston (with the exception of regions to the southeast and northeast).
There are nice roads, but nothing spectacular.
Pfft. Tell that to the hordes that descend upon the Mohawk trail each fall.
Personally I would put UT above Colo. Consistently mountainous except for a few places (unlike half plains CO), and many great driving features like I-70s San Rafael swell and Lake Bonneville on I-80. Not to mention the national parks.
Quote from: Rothman on July 12, 2020, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 12, 2020, 12:11:45 AM
Quote from: Ben114 on July 11, 2020, 10:08:39 PM
Massachusetts would probably fit into category 2, as most of the state is nice, except with a swath of "eh."
That "eh" area would be anywhere within 20 miles of downtown Boston (with the exception of regions to the southeast and northeast).
There are nice roads, but nothing spectacular.
Pfft. Tell that to the hordes that descend upon the Mohawk trail each fall.
If there were a trail in the only "mountainous" region of my home state than that's where I'd go in the fall too, regardless of scenery. It's not like Bostonians can choose between the Berkshires and the Rockies.
Quote from: STLmapboy on July 12, 2020, 12:38:38 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 12, 2020, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 12, 2020, 12:11:45 AM
Quote from: Ben114 on July 11, 2020, 10:08:39 PM
Massachusetts would probably fit into category 2, as most of the state is nice, except with a swath of "eh."
That "eh" area would be anywhere within 20 miles of downtown Boston (with the exception of regions to the southeast and northeast).
There are nice roads, but nothing spectacular.
Pfft. Tell that to the hordes that descend upon the Mohawk trail each fall.
If there were a trail in the only "mountainous" region of my home state than that's where I'd go in the fall too, regardless of scenery. It's not like Bostonians can choose between the Berkshires and the Rockies.
The St. Francois Mountains? The roads in that small region mostly stay on the valley floors. If it is an auto trail that is famous for fall foliage in the Show-Me-State it is the Glade Top Trail southwest of Ava. I drove the whole twenty-three mile route and it is very scenic by Missouri standards, though the fall foliage was quite mediocre last year when I drove it. Also, the St. Francois Mountains only go as high as 1772 feet, or 700 to 900 feet above the valleys below. When it comes to actual hiking trails, I can't really speak for the St. Francis region, as the one time I was there it was very cloudy and foggy, though I may be returning in a month. I missed out on one of the top vistas in the state (literally).
Quote from: STLmapboy on July 12, 2020, 12:38:38 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 12, 2020, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 12, 2020, 12:11:45 AM
Quote from: Ben114 on July 11, 2020, 10:08:39 PM
Massachusetts would probably fit into category 2, as most of the state is nice, except with a swath of "eh."
That "eh" area would be anywhere within 20 miles of downtown Boston (with the exception of regions to the southeast and northeast).
There are nice roads, but nothing spectacular.
Pfft. Tell that to the hordes that descend upon the Mohawk trail each fall.
If there were a trail in the only "mountainous" region of my home state than that's where I'd go in the fall too, regardless of scenery. It's not like Bostonians can choose between the Berkshires and the Rockies.
They can choose between the Berkshires, Taconics, Greens, Whites, Catskills, Adirondacks...
Remember that Mount Washington in NH is one of the most prominent peaks in the country, its lower elevation notwithstanding. :D
Utah needs to be moved up a category. And California should probably come down one. There's plenty of great scenery across the state, but the Central Valley is big and gets old fast.
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:38 PM
Ok I'll try to sort the states into categories:
1. Amazing Scenery Nearly Everywhere
2. Widespread Great Scenery
3. Great Scenery In Many Places
4. Good Scenery, If You Know Where To Look
5. Decent Scenery In Localized Areas
6. Mediocre Scenery
7. Generally Boring
8. Bottom Of The Barrel
How is 4 different from 5? If you have to know where to look for it, doesn't that mean you're looking in localized areas?
Quote from: US 89 on July 12, 2020, 02:01:17 AM
Utah needs to be moved up a category. And California should probably come down one. There's plenty of great scenery across the state, but the Central Valley is big and gets old fast.
Utah also has some boring areas, probably less than California though.
-Maybe Vermont should replace California and/or Colorado in Tier 1. As I mentioned upthread, Vermont totally wins when it comes to how much of the state is scenic. West Virginia is similar although not quite to the same extent.
-Michigan needs to move up one or more tiers. Not quite as mountainous as Upstate NY, but similar in many other respects, and the UP is amazing.
-Kansas and Nebraska probably belong in tier #4 or #5 (although I agree those two tiers need to be differentiated better).
Quote from: ozarkman417 on July 12, 2020, 12:58:35 AM
Quote from: STLmapboy on July 12, 2020, 12:38:38 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 12, 2020, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 12, 2020, 12:11:45 AM
Quote from: Ben114 on July 11, 2020, 10:08:39 PM
Massachusetts would probably fit into category 2, as most of the state is nice, except with a swath of "eh."
That "eh" area would be anywhere within 20 miles of downtown Boston (with the exception of regions to the southeast and northeast).
There are nice roads, but nothing spectacular.
Pfft. Tell that to the hordes that descend upon the Mohawk trail each fall.
If there were a trail in the only "mountainous" region of my home state than that's where I'd go in the fall too, regardless of scenery. It's not like Bostonians can choose between the Berkshires and the Rockies.
The St. Francois Mountains? The roads in that small region mostly stay on the valley floors. If it is an auto trail that is famous for fall foliage in the Show-Me-State it is the Glade Top Trail southwest of Ava. I drove the whole twenty-three mile route and it is very scenic by Missouri standards, though the fall foliage was quite mediocre last year when I drove it. Also, the St. Francois Mountains only go as high as 1772 feet, or 700 to 900 feet above the valleys below. When it comes to actual hiking trails, I can't really speak for the St. Francis region, as the one time I was there it was very cloudy and foggy, though I may be returning in a month. I missed out on one of the top vistas in the state (literally).
Yeah, St Louisans often head down to St Francois SP, Elephant Rocks, and Johnson Shut-ins (although more weekend at the Lake of the Ozarks). A friend of mine has a place at a lake in Bismarck, another in Hermann (on a bluff above the Missouri). I've also headed down to Council Bluffs Lake for Scouts (created in 1981 when the Big River was dammed and making Enough, MO, a ghost town), and the now-closed Boy Scout Camp Sunnen near Potosi for 6th-grade camp. S-F Scout Ranch (pronounced "s-bar-f") is on a lake between Fredericktown and Farmington, and I've been down there quite a bit. I once got stuck behind a car fire on 67 that closed the road for an hour. Further south, my dad and I went to Echo Bluff SP after it was created in 2017, and MO-19 between Salem and Winona is quite scenic, though Eminence is Deliverance territory and Route A between MO-19 and MO-72 has the worst pavement I've ever driven on in my life. Sorry to ramble, but there's a lot down there.
Quote from: webny99 on July 12, 2020, 11:39:09 AM
-Maybe Vermont should replace California and/or Colorado in Tier 1. As I mentioned upthread, Vermont totally wins when it comes to how much of the state is scenic. West Virginia is similar although not quite to the same extent.
-Michigan needs to move up one or more tiers. Not quite as mountainous as Upstate NY, but similar in many other respects, and the UP is amazing.
-Kansas and Nebraska probably belong in tier #4 or #5 (although I agree those two tiers need to be differentiated better).
I think Michigan should be in tier 3.
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 06, 2020, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: bm7 on July 04, 2020, 01:54:24 AM
I definitely think Louisiana would be the least scenic. I decided to find the most scenic area I could there in street view, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1082914,-92.0751459,3a,75y,266h,88.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svUGIGwN3JaDBHq2YDq3m4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4) is what I came up with. As a challenge, see if you can find anything better.
Here's my best I can think of:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9406561,-90.3749306,3a,75y,246.7h,83.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHK9LyZjNfMJG6GTptx6jGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.7194649,-91.3543363,3a,75y,72.04h,99.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUFMnhYX6zuChWD-Fk0bawQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.1972033,-93.5724435,3a,75y,252.65h,82.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC3R3wrcTtE5GQHtszOpYMg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!5m1!1e4
(almost not even Louisiana here)
Add this (old) street view image of LA 507 near Louisiana's highest point (Mt. Driskill-535 ft):
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HGGoqwwVUU4xgWyx5
Quote from: cjk374 on July 12, 2020, 05:09:42 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 06, 2020, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: bm7 on July 04, 2020, 01:54:24 AM
I definitely think Louisiana would be the least scenic. I decided to find the most scenic area I could there in street view, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1082914,-92.0751459,3a,75y,266h,88.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svUGIGwN3JaDBHq2YDq3m4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4) is what I came up with. As a challenge, see if you can find anything better.
Here's my best I can think of:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9406561,-90.3749306,3a,75y,246.7h,83.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHK9LyZjNfMJG6GTptx6jGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.7194649,-91.3543363,3a,75y,72.04h,99.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUFMnhYX6zuChWD-Fk0bawQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.1972033,-93.5724435,3a,75y,252.65h,82.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC3R3wrcTtE5GQHtszOpYMg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!5m1!1e4
(almost not even Louisiana here)
Add this (old) street view image of LA 507 near Louisiana's highest point (Mt. Driskill-535 ft):
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HGGoqwwVUU4xgWyx5
Louisiana doesn't have spectacular scenery, but what it does have is quite unique.
Quote from: US 89 on July 12, 2020, 02:01:17 AM
Utah needs to be moved up a category. And California should probably come down one. There's plenty of great scenery across the state, but the Central Valley is big and gets old fast.
If you're doing I-5 you're doing California wrong. CA 99 isn't much better unless you're a US 99 nerd that is scoping out some old highway alignments. I picked CA 137 as the least scenic California State Highway and that's smack dab in the Central Valley. Oddly I found CA 43 and CA 45 have a lot of interesting things to go look at; railroad stuff with the former and the Sacramento River with the latter.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 12, 2020, 12:11:22 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 11, 2020, 09:37:56 PM
Colorado probably falls into Category 2. For the amazing stuff it has, it's still checked a bit by the eastern half being boring plains.
Well California also has the boring Central Valley.
Maybe we are spoiled in California, but I-5 in the Central Valley would qualify as scenic in most states. It's only boring because most people's destination isn't there and I-5 was built to get people from where they are to where they want to be. The 3.5 hours between I-580 and CASR-14 are fairly scenic, but you generally aren't there to look.
Going to play the Local Card and say that Alabama is more of a 4/5 than a 6.
It's a 6/7/8 if you've just done the 67-mile straight shot on I-10, or powered though I-20; also probably underwhelming in the north-central parts of the Tennessee Valley. It's not going to be overly mountainous like states in Rockies (or even its neighbors in Georgia and Tennessee) but 2/3 of the state is rarely flat and has some varied vegetation from north to south, east to west. The charm is off the interstate, though there's a few spots I-65 north of Birmingham and I-20 just east of it which are quite scenic.
Florida is another oddity that deserves better. If you've only driven on the Interstates/Turnpike, I can't convince you that it's not really dull. 375 of 380+ miles of I-95 is straight-up agonizing, I-10 is repetitive in most places, and much of I-75 is in the same boat (though, a little more varied). 80% of the Turnpike is fearsomely dull. If you're looking for mountains, then that's your fault! Like looking for beaches in Iowa, swampland in Oregon, or dormant volcanoes in Rhode Island, you need to fixate on something else in each. The secret is in the state and county roads, though some of the US Routes are much more interesting. Though there's some dogs...SR 70 is a boring slog, while SR 50/60 is a great way to see a lot of the state's variety.
But the Lake Wales Ridge is scenic; the thousands of lakes and ponds make for curvy roads. The northern part of the state has a variety of vegetation and plenty of hills, though few that would require scaling. Show me another place on the East Coast with lush flowering plants in December and February, dozens of types of palm trees, and a variety of public beaches. The Keys are like nothing else in the US, and the same goes for the Everglades (though, it's mostly just a huge uninhabited swamp which is formidable to wander around in). Florida is different because it doesn't have what most states do have, but it also has a lot of what others do not.
Not going to put Florida on a pedestal with New York, California, Colorado, or even North Carolina...but there's a lot off the interstates, away from the big cities/suburbs.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on July 11, 2020, 06:55:00 PM
Illinois was duplicated. It is in both #5 and #7. I would have it in #5 because of the "Illinois Ozarks"/Shawnee Nat'l Forest.
My original thought was he might have meant to put Minnesota in #5 where he put Illinois. Other than the two Highway 61s and MN 16, you pretty much have to know where you're looking to find the other good scenery.
Quote from: michravera on July 13, 2020, 08:25:31 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 12, 2020, 12:11:22 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 11, 2020, 09:37:56 PM
Colorado probably falls into Category 2. For the amazing stuff it has, it's still checked a bit by the eastern half being boring plains.
Well California also has the boring Central Valley.
Maybe we are spoiled in California, but I-5 in the Central Valley would qualify as scenic in most states. It's only boring because most people's destination isn't there and I-5 was built to get people from where they are to where they want to be. The 3.5 hours between I-580 and CASR-14 are fairly scenic, but you generally aren't there to look.
Regarding I-5 it kind of does have a scenic corridor nearby in the form of CA 33. While I-5 bypasses everything CA 33 barrels through every community and small mountain range. There are a crap ton of food stands along CA 33 that comes directly from the Central Valley farms. Even I-5 between CA 41 north to I-580 has some really nice winter views of the Diablo Range.
Quote from: formulanone on July 13, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Going to play the Local Card and say that Alabama is more of a 4/5 than a 6.
It's a 6/7/8 if you've just done the 67-mile straight shot on I-10, or powered though I-20; also probably underwhelming in the north-central parts of the Tennessee Valley. It's not going to be overly mountainous like states in Rockies (or even its neighbors in Georgia and Tennessee) but 2/3 of the state is rarely flat and has some varied vegetation from north to south, east to west. The charm is off the interstate, though there's a few spots I-65 north of Birmingham and I-20 just east of it which are quite scenic.
Florida is another oddity that deserves better. If you've only driven on the Interstates/Turnpike, I can't convince you that it's not really dull. 375 of 380+ miles of I-95 is straight-up agonizing, I-10 is repetitive in most places, and much of I-75 is in the same boat (though, a little more varied). 80% of the Turnpike is fearsomely dull. If you're looking for mountains, then that's your fault! Like looking for beaches in Iowa, swampland in Oregon, or dormant volcanoes in Rhode Island, you need to fixate on something else in each. The secret is in the state and county roads, though some of the US Routes are much more interesting. Though there's some dogs...SR 70 is a boring slog, while SR 50/60 is a great way to see a lot of the state's variety.
But the Lake Wales Ridge is scenic; the thousands of lakes and ponds make for curvy roads. The northern part of the state has a variety of vegetation and plenty of hills, though few that would require scaling. Show me another place on the East Coast with lush flowering plants in December and February, dozens of types of palm trees, and a variety of public beaches. The Keys are like nothing else in the US, and the same goes for the Everglades (though, it's mostly just a huge uninhabited swamp which is formidable to wander around in). Florida is different because it doesn't have what most states do have, but it also has a lot of what others do not.
Not going to put Florida on a pedestal with New York, California, Colorado, or even North Carolina...but there's a lot off the interstates, away from the big cities/suburbs.
The last time I was on the Florida Turnpike, I didn't realize how many rolling hills there were just west of Orlando
Quote from: ftballfan on July 15, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
Quote from: formulanone on July 13, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Going to play the Local Card and say that Alabama is more of a 4/5 than a 6.
It's a 6/7/8 if you've just done the 67-mile straight shot on I-10, or powered though I-20; also probably underwhelming in the north-central parts of the Tennessee Valley. It's not going to be overly mountainous like states in Rockies (or even its neighbors in Georgia and Tennessee) but 2/3 of the state is rarely flat and has some varied vegetation from north to south, east to west. The charm is off the interstate, though there's a few spots I-65 north of Birmingham and I-20 just east of it which are quite scenic.
Florida is another oddity that deserves better. If you've only driven on the Interstates/Turnpike, I can't convince you that it's not really dull. 375 of 380+ miles of I-95 is straight-up agonizing, I-10 is repetitive in most places, and much of I-75 is in the same boat (though, a little more varied). 80% of the Turnpike is fearsomely dull. If you're looking for mountains, then that's your fault! Like looking for beaches in Iowa, swampland in Oregon, or dormant volcanoes in Rhode Island, you need to fixate on something else in each. The secret is in the state and county roads, though some of the US Routes are much more interesting. Though there's some dogs...SR 70 is a boring slog, while SR 50/60 is a great way to see a lot of the state's variety.
But the Lake Wales Ridge is scenic; the thousands of lakes and ponds make for curvy roads. The northern part of the state has a variety of vegetation and plenty of hills, though few that would require scaling. Show me another place on the East Coast with lush flowering plants in December and February, dozens of types of palm trees, and a variety of public beaches. The Keys are like nothing else in the US, and the same goes for the Everglades (though, it's mostly just a huge uninhabited swamp which is formidable to wander around in). Florida is different because it doesn't have what most states do have, but it also has a lot of what others do not.
Not going to put Florida on a pedestal with New York, California, Colorado, or even North Carolina...but there's a lot off the interstates, away from the big cities/suburbs.
The last time I was on the Florida Turnpike, I didn't realize how many rolling hills there were just west of Orlando
Most of the best inland roads in Florida are west of Orlando on the Brooksville Ridge or Ocala Plateau. There are actually really remarkable vistas on some roads like Pasco County Route 41. I really like FL 50 west of US 27 to US 41 in particular, it has an "Old Florida" feel with all those tiny communities lining the Green Swamp.
Quote from: ftballfan on July 15, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
Quote from: formulanone on July 13, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Going to play the Local Card and say that Alabama is more of a 4/5 than a 6.
It's a 6/7/8 if you've just done the 67-mile straight shot on I-10, or powered though I-20; also probably underwhelming in the north-central parts of the Tennessee Valley. It's not going to be overly mountainous like states in Rockies (or even its neighbors in Georgia and Tennessee) but 2/3 of the state is rarely flat and has some varied vegetation from north to south, east to west. The charm is off the interstate, though there's a few spots I-65 north of Birmingham and I-20 just east of it which are quite scenic.
Florida is another oddity that deserves better. If you've only driven on the Interstates/Turnpike, I can't convince you that it's not really dull. 375 of 380+ miles of I-95 is straight-up agonizing, I-10 is repetitive in most places, and much of I-75 is in the same boat (though, a little more varied). 80% of the Turnpike is fearsomely dull. If you're looking for mountains, then that's your fault! Like looking for beaches in Iowa, swampland in Oregon, or dormant volcanoes in Rhode Island, you need to fixate on something else in each. The secret is in the state and county roads, though some of the US Routes are much more interesting. Though there's some dogs...SR 70 is a boring slog, while SR 50/60 is a great way to see a lot of the state's variety.
But the Lake Wales Ridge is scenic; the thousands of lakes and ponds make for curvy roads. The northern part of the state has a variety of vegetation and plenty of hills, though few that would require scaling. Show me another place on the East Coast with lush flowering plants in December and February, dozens of types of palm trees, and a variety of public beaches. The Keys are like nothing else in the US, and the same goes for the Everglades (though, it's mostly just a huge uninhabited swamp which is formidable to wander around in). Florida is different because it doesn't have what most states do have, but it also has a lot of what others do not.
Not going to put Florida on a pedestal with New York, California, Colorado, or even North Carolina...but there's a lot off the interstates, away from the big cities/suburbs.
The last time I was on the Florida Turnpike, I didn't realize how many rolling hills there were just west of Orlando
I was on it from US-27 to I-75 in March I never even realized they had rolling hills.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 15, 2020, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on July 15, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
Quote from: formulanone on July 13, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Going to play the Local Card and say that Alabama is more of a 4/5 than a 6.
It's a 6/7/8 if you've just done the 67-mile straight shot on I-10, or powered though I-20; also probably underwhelming in the north-central parts of the Tennessee Valley. It's not going to be overly mountainous like states in Rockies (or even its neighbors in Georgia and Tennessee) but 2/3 of the state is rarely flat and has some varied vegetation from north to south, east to west. The charm is off the interstate, though there's a few spots I-65 north of Birmingham and I-20 just east of it which are quite scenic.
Florida is another oddity that deserves better. If you've only driven on the Interstates/Turnpike, I can't convince you that it's not really dull. 375 of 380+ miles of I-95 is straight-up agonizing, I-10 is repetitive in most places, and much of I-75 is in the same boat (though, a little more varied). 80% of the Turnpike is fearsomely dull. If you're looking for mountains, then that's your fault! Like looking for beaches in Iowa, swampland in Oregon, or dormant volcanoes in Rhode Island, you need to fixate on something else in each. The secret is in the state and county roads, though some of the US Routes are much more interesting. Though there's some dogs...SR 70 is a boring slog, while SR 50/60 is a great way to see a lot of the state's variety.
But the Lake Wales Ridge is scenic; the thousands of lakes and ponds make for curvy roads. The northern part of the state has a variety of vegetation and plenty of hills, though few that would require scaling. Show me another place on the East Coast with lush flowering plants in December and February, dozens of types of palm trees, and a variety of public beaches. The Keys are like nothing else in the US, and the same goes for the Everglades (though, it's mostly just a huge uninhabited swamp which is formidable to wander around in). Florida is different because it doesn't have what most states do have, but it also has a lot of what others do not.
Not going to put Florida on a pedestal with New York, California, Colorado, or even North Carolina...but there's a lot off the interstates, away from the big cities/suburbs.
The last time I was on the Florida Turnpike, I didn't realize how many rolling hills there were just west of Orlando
I was on it from US-27 to I-75 in March I never even realized they had rolling hills.
US 27 essentially skirts the hill country once you get to Claremont. The Florida Citrus Tower is even off of US 27 and really puts in perspective how much Claremont looms over Metro Orlando.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2020, 11:41:11 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 15, 2020, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on July 15, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
Quote from: formulanone on July 13, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Going to play the Local Card and say that Alabama is more of a 4/5 than a 6.
It's a 6/7/8 if you've just done the 67-mile straight shot on I-10, or powered though I-20; also probably underwhelming in the north-central parts of the Tennessee Valley. It's not going to be overly mountainous like states in Rockies (or even its neighbors in Georgia and Tennessee) but 2/3 of the state is rarely flat and has some varied vegetation from north to south, east to west. The charm is off the interstate, though there's a few spots I-65 north of Birmingham and I-20 just east of it which are quite scenic.
Florida is another oddity that deserves better. If you've only driven on the Interstates/Turnpike, I can't convince you that it's not really dull. 375 of 380+ miles of I-95 is straight-up agonizing, I-10 is repetitive in most places, and much of I-75 is in the same boat (though, a little more varied). 80% of the Turnpike is fearsomely dull. If you're looking for mountains, then that's your fault! Like looking for beaches in Iowa, swampland in Oregon, or dormant volcanoes in Rhode Island, you need to fixate on something else in each. The secret is in the state and county roads, though some of the US Routes are much more interesting. Though there's some dogs...SR 70 is a boring slog, while SR 50/60 is a great way to see a lot of the state's variety.
But the Lake Wales Ridge is scenic; the thousands of lakes and ponds make for curvy roads. The northern part of the state has a variety of vegetation and plenty of hills, though few that would require scaling. Show me another place on the East Coast with lush flowering plants in December and February, dozens of types of palm trees, and a variety of public beaches. The Keys are like nothing else in the US, and the same goes for the Everglades (though, it's mostly just a huge uninhabited swamp which is formidable to wander around in). Florida is different because it doesn't have what most states do have, but it also has a lot of what others do not.
Not going to put Florida on a pedestal with New York, California, Colorado, or even North Carolina...but there's a lot off the interstates, away from the big cities/suburbs.
The last time I was on the Florida Turnpike, I didn't realize how many rolling hills there were just west of Orlando
I was on it from US-27 to I-75 in March I never even realized they had rolling hills.
US 27 essentially skirts the hill country once you get to Claremont. The Florida Citrus Tower is even off of US 27 and really puts in perspective how much Claremont looms over Metro Orlando.
I remember passing that. I went right through that area. I was coming back to Michigan from Kissimmee.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2020, 10:08:18 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on July 15, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
Quote from: formulanone on July 13, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Going to play the Local Card and say that Alabama is more of a 4/5 than a 6.
It's a 6/7/8 if you've just done the 67-mile straight shot on I-10, or powered though I-20; also probably underwhelming in the north-central parts of the Tennessee Valley. It's not going to be overly mountainous like states in Rockies (or even its neighbors in Georgia and Tennessee) but 2/3 of the state is rarely flat and has some varied vegetation from north to south, east to west. The charm is off the interstate, though there's a few spots I-65 north of Birmingham and I-20 just east of it which are quite scenic.
Florida is another oddity that deserves better. If you've only driven on the Interstates/Turnpike, I can't convince you that it's not really dull. 375 of 380+ miles of I-95 is straight-up agonizing, I-10 is repetitive in most places, and much of I-75 is in the same boat (though, a little more varied). 80% of the Turnpike is fearsomely dull. If you're looking for mountains, then that's your fault! Like looking for beaches in Iowa, swampland in Oregon, or dormant volcanoes in Rhode Island, you need to fixate on something else in each. The secret is in the state and county roads, though some of the US Routes are much more interesting. Though there's some dogs...SR 70 is a boring slog, while SR 50/60 is a great way to see a lot of the state's variety.
But the Lake Wales Ridge is scenic; the thousands of lakes and ponds make for curvy roads. The northern part of the state has a variety of vegetation and plenty of hills, though few that would require scaling. Show me another place on the East Coast with lush flowering plants in December and February, dozens of types of palm trees, and a variety of public beaches. The Keys are like nothing else in the US, and the same goes for the Everglades (though, it's mostly just a huge uninhabited swamp which is formidable to wander around in). Florida is different because it doesn't have what most states do have, but it also has a lot of what others do not.
Not going to put Florida on a pedestal with New York, California, Colorado, or even North Carolina...but there's a lot off the interstates, away from the big cities/suburbs.
The last time I was on the Florida Turnpike, I didn't realize how many rolling hills there were just west of Orlando
Most of the best inland roads in Florida are west of Orlando on the Brooksville Ridge or Ocala Plateau. There are actually really remarkable vistas on some roads like Pasco County Route 41. I really like FL 50 west of US 27 to US 41 in particular, it has an "Old Florida" feel with all those tiny communities lining the Green Swamp.
Hancock Road between the Turnpike and Colonial Drive (FL 50) drops around 100 feet from the Turnpike to near Clarence Lake/Old Hwy 50 before going back up around 100 feet to around Sanctuary Ridge Golf Club and then dropping back down slightly to Colonial Dr.
Near Lake Minneola HS: https://goo.gl/maps/YkuzGPrYGqN3wUEw5
Near Ridge Blvd: https://goo.gl/maps/aY5udu3uFDASk6r2A
The view toward Orlando from Hancock just north of FL 50: https://goo.gl/maps/PkpHwd6DW24C5cpEA
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:38 PM
Ok I’ll try to sort the states into categories:
4. Good Scenery, If You Know Where To Look
Texas
Tennessee
North Carolina
Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Arkansas
Gonna have to disagree with "if you know where to look" for NC. That kind of implies there's no good scenery apart from stuff that's off the beaten path or not very well known, which is very, very far from the case. We have the most visited units of the parks system here - the Smokies and the Blue Ridge parkway, which definitely don't fall under the criterion of "if you know where to look". Also, NC 12. Not to mention the western third of the state has the Appalachians.
The categorization for Maine could also be lower, AFAIK, all the super good stuff is out of the way, aside from a few spots like Acadia. But don't quote me on it, I've never been there.
Quote from: index on July 18, 2020, 02:59:58 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 11, 2020, 06:19:38 PM
Ok I'll try to sort the states into categories:
4. Good Scenery, If You Know Where To Look
Texas
Tennessee
North Carolina
Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Arkansas
Gonna have to disagree with "if you know where to look" for NC. That kind of implies there's no good scenery apart from stuff that's off the beaten path or not very well known, which is very, very far from the case. We have the most visited units of the parks system here - the Smokies and the Blue Ridge parkway, which definitely don't fall under the criterion of "if you know where to look". Also, NC 12. Not to mention the western third of the state has the Appalachians.
The categorization for Maine could also be lower, AFAIK, all the super good stuff is out of the way, aside from a few spots like Acadia. But don't quote me on it, I've never been there.
NC 12, NC 28, US 129, Newfound Gap Road, and the Blue Ridge Parkway ought to elevation North Carolina to a higher near. Even some of the more mundane routes are pretty damn scenic compared to what is available on other states. I-40 and I-26 even have good scenery which isn't exactly a strong suit of the Interstate system.
Made some changes, which are noted in bold and eliminated the last category because every state brings something unique to the table. Funnily enough, I forgot Minnesota in the last one. Somehow, no one noticed!
1. Amazing Scenery Nearly Everywhere
Hawaii
Alaska
2. Widespread Great Scenery
Washington
Vermont
West Virginia
Oregon
California
Colorado
Utah
Massachusetts
3. Great Scenery In Many Places
Arizona
New Hampshire
New York
New Mexico
Wyoming
Nevada
Idaho
Pennsylvania
Montana
Michigan
Maine
4. Widespread Areas Of Decent Scenery
Texas
Tennessee
North Carolina
Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Arkansas
Alabama
Florida
5. Decent Scenery In Localized Areas
Connecticut
Rhode Island
Illinois
Georgia
North Dakota
South Dakota
Maryland
Minnesota
6. Mediocre Scenery
Mississippi
Wisconsin
Ohio
South Carolina
Indiana
7. Generally Boring
Iowa
New Jersey
Oklahoma
Kansas
Nebraska
Louisiana
Delaware
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 19, 2020, 10:10:00 PM
Made some changes, which are noted in bold and eliminated the last category because every state brings something unique to the table. Funnily enough, I forgot Minnesota in the last one. Somehow, no one noticed!
1. Amazing Scenery Nearly Everywhere
Hawaii
Alaska
2. Widespread Great Scenery
Washington
Vermont
West Virginia
Oregon
California
Colorado
Utah
Massachusetts
3. Great Scenery In Many Places
Arizona
New Hampshire
New York
New Mexico
Wyoming
Nevada
Idaho
Pennsylvania
Montana
Michigan
Maine
4. Widespread Areas Of Decent Scenery
Texas
Tennessee
North Carolina
Virginia
Kentucky
Missouri
Arkansas
Alabama
Florida
5. Decent Scenery In Localized Areas
Connecticut
Rhode Island
Illinois
Georgia
North Dakota
South Dakota
Maryland
Minnesota
6. Mediocre Scenery
Mississippi
Wisconsin
Ohio
South Carolina
Indiana
7. Generally Boring
Iowa
New Jersey
Oklahoma
Kansas
Nebraska
Louisiana
Delaware
I love my home state but we are not a whole tier above New York.
I didn't find Oklahoma boring. In fact I thought it was a pretty interesting state.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 20, 2020, 10:45:12 AM
I didn't find Oklahoma boring. In fact I thought it was a pretty interesting state.
I would lump Oklahoma into the same tier as Arkansas, both can be surprisingly nice. A large chunk of Minnesota has really nice scenic highways. MN 61 and MN 1 in the Iron Ranges immediately leap to mind. In the case of MN 61/Old US 61 that might be a strong contender for most scenic Great Lakes Road with the likes of M-22, M-26, and Lake Shore Drive.
Going to argue on the behalf of New York and say that it should be a rank 2 versus 3. The Southern Tier has phenomenal scenery (various glens near the Finger Lakes, and mountainous terrain along the NY 17 corridor keeps things from being boring), while downstate has the Catskills and part of the Berkshires; Minnewaska is considered one of the best state parks in the country. The Adirondacks require no introduction - that area is already well known for its scenery.
I will admit that Staten Island is boring (haven't been out to Montauk yet, mostly been in the endless suburbs of Nassau County), but the Lake Ontario shoreline has the surreal experience known as Chimney Bluffs. New York City is scenic if you know where to look; the High Line is a good place to start, as it snakes through Lower and Midtown Manhattan.
In terms of drives; I can vouch for the Northway and NY 17 as scenic. Southern Tier roads like NY 21 are twisty, and while the mountains may not be large - they do allow for wide valleys and operatic landscapes.
Not to mention Letchworth, which is also consistently ranked among the best State Parks in the nation.
New York absolutely belongs in Tier 2. Or at the very least, scale Massachusetts back to Tier 3 or 4, because NY clearly has the edge between those two.
And I don't think Kansas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma belong in the same tier as Delaware. But maybe that's just me.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 20, 2020, 11:54:12 AM
Going to argue on the behalf of New York and say that it should be a rank 2 versus 3. The Southern Tier has phenomenal scenery (various glens near the Finger Lakes, and mountainous terrain along the NY 17 corridor keeps things from being boring), while downstate has the Catskills and part of the Berkshires; Minnewaska is considered one of the best state parks in the country. The Adirondacks require no introduction - that area is already well known for its scenery.
I will admit that Staten Island is boring (haven't been out to Montauk yet, mostly been in the endless suburbs of Nassau County), but the Lake Ontario shoreline has the surreal experience known as Chimney Bluffs. New York City is scenic if you know where to look; the High Line is a good place to start, as it snakes through Lower and Midtown Manhattan.
In terms of drives; I can vouch for the Northway and NY 17 as scenic. Southern Tier roads like NY 21 are twisty, and while the mountains may not be large - they do allow for wide valleys and operatic landscapes.
Yeah, NY is quite underrated.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 20, 2020, 10:45:12 AM
I didn't find Oklahoma boring. In fact I thought it was a pretty interesting state.
Oklahoma east of US-69 looks pretty much like Arkansas northwest of US-67 and essentially has the foothills of the mountain ranges in Arkansas, although the Ouachitas actually go a pretty good ways into Oklahoma. The Talimena Scenic Drive should not be missed if in that area, especially in the fall.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on June 30, 2020, 07:21:30 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 29, 2020, 10:01:41 PM
If you want an entire state that's boring, it's got to be Iowa.
Unfortunately, many people who bypass the state on I-29 see it that way, because the route stays in the Missouri River valley the whole time. I did that en route to SD and the most interesting part of Iowa for me was being able to see the First National Bank Tower from many miles away.. which is in Nebraska.
I've driven on I-29 in southwestern Iowa, and it blew my mind when I saw the skyscrapers of Omaha on the horizon, because I was still several miles away from Council Bluffs, surrounded by corn fields.
Quote from: ftballfan on July 17, 2020, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2020, 10:08:18 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on July 15, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
Quote from: formulanone on July 13, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Going to play the Local Card and say that Alabama is more of a 4/5 than a 6.
It's a 6/7/8 if you've just done the 67-mile straight shot on I-10, or powered though I-20; also probably underwhelming in the north-central parts of the Tennessee Valley. It's not going to be overly mountainous like states in Rockies (or even its neighbors in Georgia and Tennessee) but 2/3 of the state is rarely flat and has some varied vegetation from north to south, east to west. The charm is off the interstate, though there's a few spots I-65 north of Birmingham and I-20 just east of it which are quite scenic.
Florida is another oddity that deserves better. If you've only driven on the Interstates/Turnpike, I can't convince you that it's not really dull. 375 of 380+ miles of I-95 is straight-up agonizing, I-10 is repetitive in most places, and much of I-75 is in the same boat (though, a little more varied). 80% of the Turnpike is fearsomely dull. If you're looking for mountains, then that's your fault! Like looking for beaches in Iowa, swampland in Oregon, or dormant volcanoes in Rhode Island, you need to fixate on something else in each. The secret is in the state and county roads, though some of the US Routes are much more interesting. Though there's some dogs...SR 70 is a boring slog, while SR 50/60 is a great way to see a lot of the state's variety.
But the Lake Wales Ridge is scenic; the thousands of lakes and ponds make for curvy roads. The northern part of the state has a variety of vegetation and plenty of hills, though few that would require scaling. Show me another place on the East Coast with lush flowering plants in December and February, dozens of types of palm trees, and a variety of public beaches. The Keys are like nothing else in the US, and the same goes for the Everglades (though, it's mostly just a huge uninhabited swamp which is formidable to wander around in). Florida is different because it doesn't have what most states do have, but it also has a lot of what others do not.
Not going to put Florida on a pedestal with New York, California, Colorado, or even North Carolina...but there's a lot off the interstates, away from the big cities/suburbs.
The last time I was on the Florida Turnpike, I didn't realize how many rolling hills there were just west of Orlando
Most of the best inland roads in Florida are west of Orlando on the Brooksville Ridge or Ocala Plateau. There are actually really remarkable vistas on some roads like Pasco County Route 41. I really like FL 50 west of US 27 to US 41 in particular, it has an "Old Florida" feel with all those tiny communities lining the Green Swamp.
Hancock Road between the Turnpike and Colonial Drive (FL 50) drops around 100 feet from the Turnpike to near Clarence Lake/Old Hwy 50 before going back up around 100 feet to around Sanctuary Ridge Golf Club and then dropping back down slightly to Colonial Dr.
Near Lake Minneola HS: https://goo.gl/maps/YkuzGPrYGqN3wUEw5
Near Ridge Blvd: https://goo.gl/maps/aY5udu3uFDASk6r2A
The view toward Orlando from Hancock just north of FL 50: https://goo.gl/maps/PkpHwd6DW24C5cpEA
Here's
some more scenery (https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5609876,-81.7159947,3a,75y,326.55h,86.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sENPaUggoNwzRHCs-8pgVfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) from the Clermont area.
Quote from: MikieTimT on July 20, 2020, 01:51:19 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 20, 2020, 10:45:12 AM
I didn't find Oklahoma boring. In fact I thought it was a pretty interesting state.
Oklahoma east of US-69 looks pretty much like Arkansas northwest of US-67 and essentially has the foothills of the mountain ranges in Arkansas, although the Ouachitas actually go a pretty good ways into Oklahoma. The Talimena Scenic Drive should not be missed if in that area, especially in the fall.
For me though I never get any of that scenery where I'm at so it just never came across as boring to me. I had in the back of my mind that I'm in an unfamiliar area and kind of like that just to see where things go and see how things look.
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but if I had to pick one state and stay there forever, I definitely wouldn't pick California. If I wanted a small, overpriced house in a crowded neighborhood, I could find one a few hours away in Canada. No need to go all the way to California for that.
My top 5 would be:
1. New York
2. Michigan
3. Minnesota
4. Pennsylvania
5. Texas
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2020, 01:29:22 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 20, 2020, 11:54:12 AM
Going to argue on the behalf of New York and say that it should be a rank 2 versus 3. The Southern Tier has phenomenal scenery (various glens near the Finger Lakes, and mountainous terrain along the NY 17 corridor keeps things from being boring), while downstate has the Catskills and part of the Berkshires; Minnewaska is considered one of the best state parks in the country. The Adirondacks require no introduction - that area is already well known for its scenery.
I will admit that Staten Island is boring (haven't been out to Montauk yet, mostly been in the endless suburbs of Nassau County), but the Lake Ontario shoreline has the surreal experience known as Chimney Bluffs. New York City is scenic if you know where to look; the High Line is a good place to start, as it snakes through Lower and Midtown Manhattan.
In terms of drives; I can vouch for the Northway and NY 17 as scenic. Southern Tier roads like NY 21 are twisty, and while the mountains may not be large - they do allow for wide valleys and operatic landscapes.
Yeah, NY is quite underrated.
Agreed, even setting my own bias aside. New York has coastlines to two Great Lakes (with roadways going alongside both), the Finger Lakes and surrounding hills and gorges carved out by glaciers, the wooded hilly Southern Tier, roads crossing through the Adirondacks and Catskills (with NY 17 through the Catskills even being named America's Most Scenic Highway one year!), upstate city skylines with great views from roadways thanks to hilly terrain (off the top of my head, I'm thinking of Syracuse, Albany, and Binghamton), amazing urban views of New York City as one goes downstate, the classic beaches in Long Island... I could go on, but I'd argue that aside from inside the cities/suburbs themselves, New York really does have great scenery across most of its road network, easily matching (if not surpassing) that of Massachusetts.
Quote from: webny99 on August 16, 2020, 11:12:49 AM
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but if I had to pick one state and stay there forever, I definitely wouldn't pick California. If I wanted a small, overpriced house in a crowded neighborhood, I could find one a few hours away in Canada. No need to go all the way to California for that.
My top 5 would be:
1. New York
2. Michigan
3. Minnesota
4. Pennsylvania
5. Texas
For me, Michigan would be a little too flat.
Quote from: webny99 on August 16, 2020, 11:12:49 AM
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but if I had to pick one state and stay there forever, I definitely wouldn't pick California. If I wanted a small, overpriced house in a crowded neighborhood, I could find one a few hours away in Canada. No need to go all the way to California for that.
My top 5 would be:
1. New York
2. Michigan
3. Minnesota
4. Pennsylvania
5. Texas
You are aware that if you get away from the coastal cities that cost of living goes way down? We own a 13 year old 1,650 square foot house in Fresno that was mortgaged for 165k. We're backed up to huge swath of empty farm land which almost no chance of developing. And unless you're talking the Rockies or Cascades even eastern Canada doesn't stack up to the scenery of the American West Coast.
In regards to Texas, yes there is no income tax but and a somewhat low cost of living. Trouble is almost everything East of San Antonio is either flat or in within reclaimed farm land. You have to go to western Texas to get any of the scenery that people have talked about in this thread.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 16, 2020, 02:20:04 PM
You are aware that if you get away from the coastal cities that cost of living goes way down? We own a 13 year old 1,650 square foot house in Fresno that was mortgaged for 165k. We're backed up to huge swath of empty farm land which almost no chance of developing. And unless you're talking the Rockies or Cascades even eastern Canada doesn't stack up to the scenery of the American West Coast.
I'm not disputing that California has great scenery, and that is important, but not necessarily the main thing I'd be considering. I've seen enough of suburban California to know that it reminds of eastern Canada (the Toronto area in particular), and I just don't like that style of suburbia/development patterns. Even setting cost aside, it's too cramped, with houses too close to the street, no big trees, no big yards, etc.
Of course, you could always live in a rural area, and that's great for a few weeks vacation or even a couple months, but I don't think I could live far away from basic amenities year-round.
Quote from: webny99 on August 16, 2020, 06:20:26 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 16, 2020, 02:20:04 PM
You are aware that if you get away from the coastal cities that cost of living goes way down? We own a 13 year old 1,650 square foot house in Fresno that was mortgaged for 165k. We're backed up to huge swath of empty farm land which almost no chance of developing. And unless you're talking the Rockies or Cascades even eastern Canada doesn't stack up to the scenery of the American West Coast.
I'm not disputing that California has great scenery, and that is important, but not necessarily the main thing I'd be considering. I've seen enough of suburban California to know that it reminds of eastern Canada (the Toronto area in particular), and I just don't like that style of suburbia/development patterns. Even setting cost aside, it's too cramped, with houses too close to the street, no big trees, no big yards, etc.
Of course, you could always live in a rural area, and that's great for a few weeks vacation or even a couple months, but I don't think I could live far away from basic amenities year-round.
Fresno isn't exactly the most rural area in the world, there is over 500,000 residents in the City and slightly over a million in the Metro Area. You can find a similarly affordable lifestyle in cities like Sacramento, Bakersfield, Visalia, Salinas, and Redding. None of those are as glamorous as the cities one would normally associate California with but they are definitely far more affordable. In my case I have four National Parks and Big Sur within less than three hours, none of the big name cities are going to offer that out here. It kind of sounds like you visited a big city or two and assumed the whole state was like that. That would be like me saying all of New York is urbanized and unaffordable because I went to New York City once.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 20, 2020, 11:54:12 AM
I will admit that Staten Island is boring (haven't been out to Montauk yet, mostly been in the endless suburbs of Nassau County),...
I've been out to Montauk nearly several times in my life, and I can tell you between "downtown" Montauk and the lighthouse, it's worth it.
For Florida, in the past I might've said SR 50 in Withlacoochee State Forest and SR 52 between US 41 and Dade City, but not anymore. I could consider SRs 19, 40, 44, CRs 42, or 314 in Ocala National Forest, but I don't know how long driving on those roads will be worth it.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on August 16, 2020, 07:23:15 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 20, 2020, 11:54:12 AM
I will admit that Staten Island is boring (haven't been out to Montauk yet, mostly been in the endless suburbs of Nassau County),...
I've been out to Montauk nearly several times in my life, and I can tell you between "downtown" Montauk and the lighthouse, it's worth it.
For Florida, in the past I might've said SR 50 in Withlacoochee State Forest and SR 52 between US 41 and Dade City, but not anymore. I could consider SRs 19, 40, 44, CRs 42, or 314 in Ocala National Forest, but I don't know how long driving on those roads will be worth it.
I would definitely say FL 50 between US 301 and FL 19 is still a worthwhile drive just for the Old Florida scenery. FL 19 and FL 40 within Ocala National Forest are definitely very pretty drives. FL 50 east of Orlando, FL 520, and US 441 between US 192-FL 60 come to mind for scenic drives. US 441 is pretty nice as far south as Pahokee before it gets really haggard approaching Belle Glade. US 27 south of FL 60 to I-75 was one of my favorite alternates to get to Miami because of the hilly scenery and laid back drive in the Everglades.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 16, 2020, 07:30:42 PM
I would definitely say FL 50 between US 301 and FL 19 is still a worthwhile drive just for the Old Florida scenery. FL 19 and FL 40 within Ocala National Forest are definitely very pretty drives.
I agree that the scenery along that segment of FL 50 is nice, at least west of Mascotte. The trouble is everybody and their brother keeps going there. That spoils the appeal of the drive, which is the same thing that ruined FL 52 from US 41 through I-75. That area is still rural farmland and swampland, but it's so overcrowded that whatever thrill there was of driving on that road 20 odd years ago is gone.
And that kind of makes me sad.
:-(
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 16, 2020, 06:26:53 PM
It kind of sounds like you visited a big city or two and assumed the whole state was like that. That would be like me saying all of New York is urbanized and unaffordable because I went to New York City once.
Not at all. But what I have seen in person and on Street View, in terms of housing, is just not my taste. Of course, that's just one of many factors, but it's a pretty important one.
I think Upstate NY spoils me. Aside from the Midwest (OH, MI, MN) other areas of the country just don't have nearly the same quality of suburbs IMO.
Quote from: webny99 on August 16, 2020, 08:43:02 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 16, 2020, 06:26:53 PM
It kind of sounds like you visited a big city or two and assumed the whole state was like that. That would be like me saying all of New York is urbanized and unaffordable because I went to New York City once.
Not at all. But what I have seen in person and on Street View, in terms of housing, is just not my taste. Of course, that's just one of many factors, but it's a pretty important one.
I think Upstate NY spoils me. Aside from the Midwest (OH, MI, MN) other areas of the country just don't have nearly the same quality of suburbs IMO.
Really your experiences outside the immediate area that you have grown up in has always struck me as lacking. Street View isn't reality in terms of things like yard sizes, styles, job markets, and home values. It's okay to admit that you don't really know what you're talking about from time to time, you're just not fooling anyone when you try to say otherwise.
What? What do you know about me all of a sudden? You tell me what I'm talking about, then, if you're so full of wisdom. What don't you understand about "not my taste"? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove other than just to say I'm wrong because you want to defend your area. Give me some examples of California suburbs that are so great, if you're so sure they exist in some alternate reality.
I could show you a few dozen of the nicest neighborhoods in the country in as many minutes, but let's see what you've got first.
Quote from: webny99 on August 16, 2020, 09:12:21 PM
If there's a case where I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm not afraid to say it.
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove other than just to say I'm wrong because you want to defend your area. Give me some examples of California suburbs that are so great if you're so sure they exist in some alternate reality. Good luck.
I'm basically saying your life experiences are extremely limited and thusly you're only open to surroundings they familiar to you. As someone who is 20 years I would caution you against being so closed minded and being so dead set to settle for something familiar in life when you've literally tried nothing else. I mean, have you once even entertained the notion of going to school somewhere new or trying a new locale for work that is outside your comfort zone? The way you perceive places for which you have zero experience speaks to volumes to where you are in life. You can read that how you want, but I intend that as advice.
What I can tell you is that I've lived and worked in 11 different states. Out of all them I would probably say the one I liked the best was Arizona. I spent a lot of years perceiving California as a crap hole because I worked in Los Angeles and San Diego in jobs that I really didn't like. I absolutely detested the traffic in big cities of California and the huge expense of pretty much everything.
That said, I took a chance on a transfer at work four years ago from Florida to Central California and it has turned out far better than I thought it would. That doesn't mean that I'll stay here the rest of my life but it is something that I can recommend to people who like affordable living with access to a massive amount outdoor recreation. Had I not take a chance on something new and look beyond my preconceived notions about California I would have missed out on a lot of good things (including meeting my wife).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 16, 2020, 09:17:10 PM
I'm basically saying your life experiences are extremely limited and thusly you're only open to surroundings they familiar to you. As someone who is 20 years I would caution you against being so closed minded and being so dead set to settle for something familiar in life when you've literally tried nothing else. I mean, have you once even entertained the notion of going to school somewhere new or trying a new locale for work that is outside your comfort zone? The way perceive places you have zero experience speaks to your lack of real world experience in life. You can read that how you want, but I intend that as advice.
(Note: I edited my previous post, but you had already quoted it. But your response basically addressed what I added, so all good...)
I appreciate your intentions and advice, but I don't think it's true that my life experiences are too limited or that I'm closed-minded, and that somehow more experience is going to majorly change the picture. It's true that I've only lived in one state, but I've been to 26 and spent considerable time in about a dozen. I have friends and family all over the country, in Canada, Australia, Europe, etc.
I am very much open to trying out new places (not so much schools for reasons I won't get into), but I don't think I'm going to be moving in the near future. I do hope to be able to do plenty of traveling in the years to come, because I do think it's important to see new places and learn about new cultures.
I'm not saying any one area is worse than another, or that I have anything against those areas. I'm simply saying that the Northeast/Midwest style of housing and suburbia appeals to me much more than the South/West style, and that isn't going to change no matter how much time I spend anywhere else, because having a decent sized property room to spread out and distance from your neighbors is just something I value inherently. There are plenty of states besides New York where you can find that easily, but California, and the South/West in general, is not necessarily among them.
Quote from: webny99 on August 16, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 16, 2020, 09:17:10 PM
I’m basically saying your life experiences are extremely limited and thusly you’re only open to surroundings they familiar to you. As someone who is 20 years I would caution you against being so closed minded and being so dead set to settle for something familiar in life when you’ve literally tried nothing else. I mean, have you once even entertained the notion of going to school somewhere new or trying a new locale for work that is outside your comfort zone? The way perceive places you have zero experience speaks to your lack of real world experience in life. You can read that how you want, but I intend that as advice.
(Note: I edited my previous post, but you had already quoted it. But your response basically addressed what I added, so all good...)
I appreciate your intentions and advice, but I don't think it's true that my life experiences are too limited or that I'm closed-minded, and that somehow more experience is going to majorly change the picture. It's true that I've only lived in one state, but I've been to 26 and spent considerable time in about a dozen. I have friends and family all over the country, in Canada, Australia, Europe, etc.
I am very much open to trying out new places (not so much schools for reasons I won't get into), but I don't think I'm going to be moving in the near future. I do hope to be able to do plenty of traveling in the years to come, because I do think it's important to see new places and learn about new cultures.
I'm not saying any one area is worse than another, or that I have anything against those areas. I'm simply saying that the Northeast/Midwest style of housing and suburbia appeals to me much more than the South/West style, and that isn't going to change no matter how much time I spend anywhere else, because having a decent sized property room to spread out and distance from your neighbors is just something I value inherently. There are plenty of states besides New York where you can find that easily, but California, and the South/West in general, is not necessarily among them.
California has 58 counties. Only 9 of them have more than 1 million people (Fresno County is estimated as just under 1 million). Another 6 (plus Fresno) are over one-half million. In addition, Sonoma county is estimate at just under one-half million. If you want a 100 m driveway, you have a choice of the other 41. Those include Santa Cruz, Monterey, Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, all 4 north coast counties, plus El Dorado (where Lake Tahoe is). If you can't find somewhere that you'd like to live in California, you will have to look hard to find it anywhere. My only complaint: The ocean here is cold and it sometimes rains half of the year. It only rains in August when my mother-in-law has her car detailed (as she did a couple days ago, so it rained today).
Quote from: webny99 on August 16, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 16, 2020, 09:17:10 PM
I'm basically saying your life experiences are extremely limited and thusly you're only open to surroundings they familiar to you. As someone who is 20 years I would caution you against being so closed minded and being so dead set to settle for something familiar in life when you've literally tried nothing else. I mean, have you once even entertained the notion of going to school somewhere new or trying a new locale for work that is outside your comfort zone? The way perceive places you have zero experience speaks to your lack of real world experience in life. You can read that how you want, but I intend that as advice.
(Note: I edited my previous post, but you had already quoted it. But your response basically addressed what I added, so all good...)
I appreciate your intentions and advice, but I don't think it's true that my life experiences are too limited or that I'm closed-minded, and that somehow more experience is going to majorly change the picture. It's true that I've only lived in one state, but I've been to 26 and spent considerable time in about a dozen. I have friends and family all over the country, in Canada, Australia, Europe, etc.
I am very much open to trying out new places (not so much schools for reasons I won't get into), but I don't think I'm going to be moving in the near future. I do hope to be able to do plenty of traveling in the years to come, because I do think it's important to see new places and learn about new cultures.
I'm not saying any one area is worse than another, or that I have anything against those areas. I'm simply saying that the Northeast/Midwest style of housing and suburbia appeals to me much more than the South/West style, and that isn't going to change no matter how much time I spend anywhere else, because having a decent sized property room to spread out and distance from your neighbors is just something I value inherently. There are plenty of states besides New York where you can find that easily, but California, and the South/West in general, is not necessarily among them.
I think he is trying to tell you that LA/SF/SD does not equal all of California.
Quote from: webny99 on August 16, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 16, 2020, 09:17:10 PM
I'm basically saying your life experiences are extremely limited and thusly you're only open to surroundings they familiar to you. As someone who is 20 years I would caution you against being so closed minded and being so dead set to settle for something familiar in life when you've literally tried nothing else. I mean, have you once even entertained the notion of going to school somewhere new or trying a new locale for work that is outside your comfort zone? The way perceive places you have zero experience speaks to your lack of real world experience in life. You can read that how you want, but I intend that as advice.
(Note: I edited my previous post, but you had already quoted it. But your response basically addressed what I added, so all good...)
I appreciate your intentions and advice, but I don't think it's true that my life experiences are too limited or that I'm closed-minded, and that somehow more experience is going to majorly change the picture. It's true that I've only lived in one state, but I've been to 26 and spent considerable time in about a dozen. I have friends and family all over the country, in Canada, Australia, Europe, etc.
I am very much open to trying out new places (not so much schools for reasons I won't get into), but I don't think I'm going to be moving in the near future. I do hope to be able to do plenty of traveling in the years to come, because I do think it's important to see new places and learn about new cultures.
I'm not saying any one area is worse than another, or that I have anything against those areas. I'm simply saying that the Northeast/Midwest style of housing and suburbia appeals to me much more than the South/West style, and that isn't going to change no matter how much time I spend anywhere else, because having a decent sized property room to spread out and distance from your neighbors is just something I value inherently. There are plenty of states besides New York where you can find that easily, but California, and the South/West in general, is not necessarily among them.
Based on what I've seen of the density in Rochester, there is plenty of that style of development in the northeastern areas of both Sacramento and San Diego, in addition to the areas Max mentioned.
Back on topic:
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 19, 2020, 10:10:00 PM
Made some changes, which are noted in bold and eliminated the last category because every state brings something unique to the table. Funnily enough, I forgot Minnesota in the last one. Somehow, no one noticed!
1. Amazing Scenery Nearly Everywhere
Hawaii
Alaska
2. Widespread Great Scenery
Washington
Vermont
West Virginia
Oregon
California
Colorado
Utah
Massachusetts
My argument against just Alaska and Hawaii in the top tier is that their scenery, while nearly universally awesome, is limited in scope. While I will be the first in line to tell you that California definitely has a fair portion of non-scenic highways, you can find multiple examples of beautiful highway in multiple regions (seashore, rolling hills, agriculture, redwood forest, alpine mountains, desert, delta). Colorado has much of this as well. I'd put them both back in the top tier.
One of the things California doesn't have is the fall color of New England and some other areas. There's no comparison there.