One example would be Detroit-Buffalo via Canada.
Sticking to the US for now, they all appear to be on the US-Canadian border, and almost always involve bodies of water (e.g. the Great Lakes or Puget Sound) blocking what would have been high-capacity routes in the US.
*Parts of Alaska to the lower 48 via Yukon and British Columbia (assuming no ferry usage).
*Port Roberts, Washington, to anywhere in the lower 48.
*The "hat" of Minnesota (north side of Lake of the Woods), Angle Inlet, to anywhere in the lower 48.
In some cases, I think going through Canada just makes for a better route:
*Much of northern Minnesota to the Sault St Marie region, across the northern shore of Lake Superior, rather than via the Michigan Upper Peninsula, as well as the northern parts New England.
Canada was the much better route in pretty much all of Michigan for points eastward and above the New York State Line. Port Huron in particular is a family go-to for short cutting around Lake Erie.
I think that the fastest way to travel between Eastern and Western Canada is via the US.
I would most certainly stay within the United States if I was traveling elsewhere in the United States regardless of how much longer it would take me. If I was going from Detroit to Buffalo I'd suck up the extra 100 miles and drive on the south side of Lake Erie rather than having to deal with customs twice and then the long delays at the border at times would probably make that extra 100 miles seem like nothing.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 05, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
In some cases, I think going through Canada just makes for a better route:
*Much of northern Minnesota to the Sault St Marie region, across the northern shore of Lake Superior, rather than via the Michigan Upper Peninsula, as well as the northern parts New England.
The best route from International Falls to Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan is going through Wisconsin and the U.P.
Going around the north shore of Lake Superior adds about 65 miles and an hour and a half at least. And International Falls is about as far north as you can go in Minnesota (not the most northern point but it's close).
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2020, 12:58:15 PM
I think that the fastest way to travel between Eastern and Western Canada is via the US.
Yup, even in the situation we are in, Google suggests exactly that if you want to go from Toronto/Montreal to say Vancouver.
Before the twinning of NB-2 happened, I believe it may have been slightly quicker, and this is a big may, to go from Toronto to Halifax by crossing the border at the Niagara River.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 05, 2020, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 05, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
In some cases, I think going through Canada just makes for a better route:
*Much of northern Minnesota to the Sault St Marie region, across the northern shore of Lake Superior, rather than via the Michigan Upper Peninsula, as well as the northern parts New England.
The best route from International Falls to Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan is going through Wisconsin and the U.P.
Going around the north shore of Lake Superior adds about 65 miles and an hour and a half at least. And International Falls is about as far north as you can go in Minnesota (not the most northern point but it's close).
Even from Grand Marais, it's only 10 minutes faster to go through Canada which will obviously be more than made up for by the customs clearances. Grand Portage itself is really the only place where going through Canada to SSM makes sense.
It's common in Europe although our borders are rather more porous than the Canada/US border (and a million times more so than the Mexico/US one).
Some common tricks include Calais to Lyon in France via Belgium and Luxembourg - avoids the tedious A26 toll road through flat terrain north east of Paris, and Lux has massively cheap fuel to boot. More mileage but saves a fortune on tolls and fuel as the A31 down to Lyon from Luxembourg is cheaper than the A26/A5 through France.
If you live in North Wales and want to get to South Wales, it's nearly always quicker to travel through England than to use the A470.
Dublin to Donegal is quicker through Northern Ireland - at least it has been since border checks vanished, although who knows what Brexit will see happen. I expect the Irish M4/N4 will be improved over the N2/A5 route as a result.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 05, 2020, 02:28:44 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 05, 2020, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 05, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
In some cases, I think going through Canada just makes for a better route:
*Much of northern Minnesota to the Sault St Marie region, across the northern shore of Lake Superior, rather than via the Michigan Upper Peninsula, as well as the northern parts New England.
The best route from International Falls to Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan is going through Wisconsin and the U.P.
Going around the north shore of Lake Superior adds about 65 miles and an hour and a half at least. And International Falls is about as far north as you can go in Minnesota (not the most northern point but it's close).
Even from Grand Marais, it's only 10 minutes faster to go through Canada which will obviously be more than made up for by the customs clearances. Grand Portage itself is really the only place where going through Canada to SSM makes sense.
I don't know why Google keeps suggesting that you take US-2 between Wakefield, MI and Newberry, MI as an alternate route when taking M-28 is faster and shorter. This is for between Grand Portage and SSM. M-28 is 65 mph most of the way and you can bypass Marquette as well by taking CR-480 and Cherry Creek Road. However the route you mentioned going through Canada is the best way only from Grand Portage though. I'm thinking I could easily make the time up by punching it a little bit especially going across the U.P.
Quote from: MisterSG1 on July 05, 2020, 01:42:26 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 05, 2020, 12:58:15 PM
I think that the fastest way to travel between Eastern and Western Canada is via the US.
Yup, even in the situation we are in, Google suggests exactly that if you want to go from Toronto/Montreal to say Vancouver.
Before the twinning of NB-2 happened, I believe it may have been slightly quicker, and this is a big may, to go from Toronto to Halifax by crossing the border at the Niagara River.
Still faster to go through America for Niagra Falls-Halifax
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Niagara+Falls,+ON,+Canada/Halifax,+NS,+Canada/@44.0511505,-75.6759454,6z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d3445eec824db9:0x46d2c56156bda288!2m2!1d-79.0849436!2d43.0895577!1m5!1m1!1s0x4b5a211407dbfac1:0x666be3a6438b2ddc!2m2!1d-63.5727683!2d44.6475811!3e0
How about this mess along the German-Belgian border? https://goo.gl/maps/gRJQyAej5Ptzvdx56
Quote from: Brandon on July 05, 2020, 04:41:59 PM
How about this mess along the German-Belgian border? https://goo.gl/maps/gRJQyAej5Ptzvdx56
Forget that ... follow the border between the Netherlands and Belgium west. There are exclaves of one country in the other in a number of places. The border takes crazy zigs and zags and bisects houses, farmfields and towns with no discernible presence.
Europe is the prime territory for this thread, thanks to Schengen area :sombrero:. However due to the Pyrenees there are no practical routes from a point in Spain to another that involves entering France or vice-versa.
One great example from Spain is Os de Civis. If you want to reach it from anywhere else on paved roads you have to go through Andorra. Due to that, Os de Civis is the only village in Spain that is de facto not part of Schengen area (since Andorra officially isn't).
Winnipeg to Toronto (and anywhere in ON west of there). The quickest route according to Google involves crossing into the US at Pembina, using the Lake Express ferry between Milwaukee and Muskegon, and crossing back into Canada at the Blue Water Bridge.
Most of Saskatchewan and Alberta to Toronto would involve crossing into the US at Portal and crossing back into Canada at the Blue Water Bridge.
From Vancouver to Toronto, one would cross into the US at Blaine, remaining in the US (via I-5, I-405, I-90, I-94, the Lake Express Ferry, I-96, I-69, and then I-94 again) until crossing back into Canada at the Blue Water Bridge.
A trip from Sault Ste. Marie to Windsor, both in Ontario, would mostly involve I-75 and take about five hours. Staying in Canada doubles the drive time (via ON 17, ON 69, ON 400, and ON 401).
A few years ago, there was a period of time that the only road connecting western Canada to eastern Canada (in Ontario between Thunder Bay and Nipigon) was closed due to a bridge collapse.
Estcourt Station, ME to anywhere in the US. Unless you don't mind hundreds of miles of logging roads.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 05, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
Sticking to the US for now, they all appear to be on the US-Canadian border, and almost always involve bodies of water (e.g. the Great Lakes or Puget Sound) blocking what would have been high-capacity routes in the US.
*Parts of Alaska to the lower 48 via Yukon and British Columbia (assuming no ferry usage).
From Hyder, Alaska to anywhere else, including the rest of Alaska. No ferry to Hyder, and the Alaska state ferry route to nearby Stewart BC was terminated (just as I was going to take it) in 1994.
From Ciudad Juárez to Ciudad Acuña, México:
Mexico-only routes = 888 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/hyk5Nfs5boJ8Uzxc7)
Via I-10 (USA) = 430 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/1DnwpL6shSCJZYvE8)
Google Maps currently estimates a savings of 11 hours by crossing through the USA. Even if you figure a total of 3 hours for border crossing fun, that's still amazing.
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
From Ciudad Juárez to Ciudad Acuña, México:
Mexico-only routes = 888 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/hyk5Nfs5boJ8Uzxc7)
Via I-10 (USA) = 430 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/1DnwpL6shSCJZYvE8)
Google Maps currently estimates a savings of 11 hours by crossing through the USA. Even if you figure a total of 3 hours for border crossing fun, that's still amazing.
No roads nearish to the rio grande on the Mexico side?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2020, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
From Ciudad Juárez to Ciudad Acuña, México:
Mexico-only routes = 888 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/hyk5Nfs5boJ8Uzxc7)
Via I-10 (USA) = 430 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/1DnwpL6shSCJZYvE8)
Google Maps currently estimates a savings of 11 hours by crossing through the USA. Even if you figure a total of 3 hours for border crossing fun, that's still amazing.
No roads nearish to the rio grande on the Mexico side?
Do you see any?
The fastest way between Innsbruck, Austria and Salzburg, Austria is to go through Bavaria in Germany, because the Autobahn follows the Inn River out of the Alps.
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2020, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
From Ciudad Juárez to Ciudad Acuña, México:
Mexico-only routes = 888 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/hyk5Nfs5boJ8Uzxc7)
Via I-10 (USA) = 430 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/1DnwpL6shSCJZYvE8)
Google Maps currently estimates a savings of 11 hours by crossing through the USA. Even if you figure a total of 3 hours for border crossing fun, that's still amazing.
No roads nearish to the rio grande on the Mexico side?
Do you see any?
No, I guess not many people live there.
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2020, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
From Ciudad Juárez to Ciudad Acuña, México:
Mexico-only routes = 888 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/hyk5Nfs5boJ8Uzxc7)
Via I-10 (USA) = 430 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/1DnwpL6shSCJZYvE8)
Google Maps currently estimates a savings of 11 hours by crossing through the USA. Even if you figure a total of 3 hours for border crossing fun, that's still amazing.
No roads nearish to the rio grande on the Mexico side?
Do you see any?
I see some. (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/San+Jos%C3%A9+de+Las+Piedras,+Coahuila,+Mexico/Chihuahua,+Mexico/@28.4738677,-105.4879305,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x86f3065fee583c0f:0x10dd7461c13105ba!2m2!1d-102.6666671!2d28.7499999!1m5!1m1!1s0x86ea449d5d484033:0xb7f1a7a706dd1d7b!2m2!1d-106.0691004!2d28.6329957)
Quote from: 1 on July 06, 2020, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2020, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
From Ciudad Juárez to Ciudad Acuña, México:
Mexico-only routes = 888 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/hyk5Nfs5boJ8Uzxc7)
Via I-10 (USA) = 430 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/1DnwpL6shSCJZYvE8)
Google Maps currently estimates a savings of 11 hours by crossing through the USA. Even if you figure a total of 3 hours for border crossing fun, that's still amazing.
No roads nearish to the rio grande on the Mexico side?
Do you see any?
I see some. (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/San+Jos%C3%A9+de+Las+Piedras,+Coahuila,+Mexico/Chihuahua,+Mexico/@28.4738677,-105.4879305,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x86f3065fee583c0f:0x10dd7461c13105ba!2m2!1d-102.6666671!2d28.7499999!1m5!1m1!1s0x86ea449d5d484033:0xb7f1a7a706dd1d7b!2m2!1d-106.0691004!2d28.6329957)
I'm guessing that some of these roads are dirt roads.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2020, 04:10:02 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 06, 2020, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2020, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 06, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
From Ciudad Juárez to Ciudad Acuña, México:
Mexico-only routes = 888 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/hyk5Nfs5boJ8Uzxc7)
Via I-10 (USA) = 430 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/1DnwpL6shSCJZYvE8)
Google Maps currently estimates a savings of 11 hours by crossing through the USA. Even if you figure a total of 3 hours for border crossing fun, that's still amazing.
No roads nearish to the rio grande on the Mexico side?
Do you see any?
I see some. (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/San+Jos%C3%A9+de+Las+Piedras,+Coahuila,+Mexico/Chihuahua,+Mexico/@28.4738677,-105.4879305,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x86f3065fee583c0f:0x10dd7461c13105ba!2m2!1d-102.6666671!2d28.7499999!1m5!1m1!1s0x86ea449d5d484033:0xb7f1a7a706dd1d7b!2m2!1d-106.0691004!2d28.6329957)
I'm guessing that some of these roads are dirt roads.
In the past, that was certainly true. However, a bell started ringing in my head when
1 posted that. I have no idea what the progress is on the projects referenced below:
Quote from: Jbte on February 06, 2016, 11:28:17 PM
At Coahuila state all route is paved to Chihuahua border, you can get really close to Boquillas del Carmen by paved road, only like 20 miles of unpaved route to Boquillas, it's unknown if there are plans to pave the last branch to Boquillas. At Chihuahua side its unpaved (41 miles), from Manuel Benavides to Coahuila state border, that's due some legal changes must be done over the protected area, once its done it'll be replaced by Federal route 53 from Monterrey to Ojinaga. Google maps reference its wrong over this area and must be corrected. The only interesting place in this new route is "La Cuesta de Malena" its an scenic desert drive with a tunnel, nearby La Encantada open pit mine and Maderas del Carmen mountain range.
Another route under construction near to this area its the Coahuila state route 20, from Ocampo to San Miguel (T junction to the new Federal route 53), you'll be able to drive from Torreón to (near) Boquillas in a paved route passing by Cuatro Cienegas, i'm eager to see this completed.
The optimal route, according to Google Maps, for going from Fort Frances, ON to Winnipeg, MB has you enter the US at Baudette, MN and leave the US north of Warroad, MN.
Also, Point Roberts to anywhere.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Also, Point Roberts to anywhere.
As mentioned in the first reply to the OP.
Quote from: kphoger on July 07, 2020, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Also, Point Roberts to anywhere.
As mentioned in the first reply to the OP.
In that post though it's called Port Roberts instead of Point Roberts lol.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 05, 2020, 01:26:49 PM
I would most certainly stay within the United States if I was traveling elsewhere in the United States regardless of how much longer it would take me. If I was going from Detroit to Buffalo I'd suck up the extra 100 miles and drive on the south side of Lake Erie rather than having to deal with customs twice and then the long delays at the border at times would probably make that extra 100 miles seem like nothing.
This is very much a matter of personal preference, it really depends how big of a deal crossing the border is to you. I can tell you from experience that 95% of the time, going through Canada will be faster, often significantly so. I would never have even
considered going through Ohio to get to Michigan before the border closed. But then, I'm a NEXUS cardholder, and used to cross the border around once or twice a month before the pandemic hit.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Also, Point Roberts to anywhere.
Not quite. Anywhere in the US.
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Also, Point Roberts to anywhere.
Not quite. Anywhere in the US.
The topic is
'Trips "within" a country...', so wouldn't that be implied?
Quote from: kphoger on July 07, 2020, 01:25:40 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Also, Point Roberts to anywhere.
Not quite. Anywhere in the US.
The topic is 'Trips "within" a country...', so wouldn't that be implied?
Maybe, maybe not. I should have wrote rest of US.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 02:37:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 07, 2020, 01:25:40 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Also, Point Roberts to anywhere.
Not quite. Anywhere in the US.
The topic is 'Trips "within" a country...', so wouldn't that be implied?
Maybe, maybe not. I should have wrote rest of US.
Doesn't one have to go through Canada (or Canadian waters or airspace) to get from Point Roberts to anywhere that isn't considered a part of Point Roberts?
Quote from: michravera on July 07, 2020, 02:54:23 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 02:37:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 07, 2020, 01:25:40 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 07, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Also, Point Roberts to anywhere.
Not quite. Anywhere in the US.
The topic is 'Trips "within" a country...', so wouldn't that be implied?
Maybe, maybe not. I should have wrote rest of US.
Doesn't one have to go through Canada (or Canadian waters or airspace) to get from Point Roberts to anywhere that isn't considered a part of Point Roberts?
Good point. No matter where you go from Point Roberts–whether to the US or elsewhere–your journey will necessarily take you out of the country.
Quote from: ftballfan on July 06, 2020, 09:56:09 AM
Winnipeg to Toronto (and anywhere in ON west of there). The quickest route according to Google involves crossing into the US at Pembina, using the Lake Express ferry between Milwaukee and Muskegon, and crossing back into Canada at the Blue Water Bridge.
Google assumes that you've timed your ferry perfectly, of course. Otherwise, it's a 20 minute difference in favor going through the U.P. v.s. going through Chicago. Unless there was significant snowfall predicted in Michigan, da U.P. wins.
But you're only saving an hour and a half leaving Canada at all (per Google) - and you'll eat much of that time up at the border crossings. If Ontario ever completes 4-laning Hwy 17 and bumps it to a 110 or 120 km/h speed limit, that time difference would evaporate.
Quote from: ftballfan on July 06, 2020, 09:56:09 AM
From Vancouver to Toronto, one would cross into the US at Blaine, remaining in the US (via I-5, I-405, I-90, I-94, the Lake Express Ferry, I-96, I-69, and then I-94 again) until crossing back into Canada at the Blue Water Bridge.
There's no good way to get across the Canadian Rockies quickly, and that will remain the case even when a complete 4-lane connection to Vancouver from Calgary is completed. Once you reach Calgary, the Trans-Canada is 4-laned and posted for 110 km/h (68 mph) until you hit the Ontario border, so you make good time on that stretch.
Then you hit the Ontario border. You spend nearly as much time on 2-lanes in Ontario as on 4-lanes in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba, and the fastest you can go on any of it is 90 km/h (56 mph) until Sudbury or North Bay. And yes, all roads lead through Thunder Bay and Nipigon - but at least there's two bridges in Nipigon now. 4-laning Hwy 11 or 17 across Ontario can't happen fast enough, though I doubt I'll see that accomplished in my lifetime.