Calculators are cool.
The first calculator I can remember anyone in the family having was a brown Texas Instruments that my mom had. It had a red display and tiny digits. When a number overflowed, the display would blink. I don't even remember where she got it.
I had a toy calculator with Mickey Mouse on it, but the first real calculator I got was a Sharp that I got when I was in elementary school. When I had to take it to school in 8th grade, some kids broke it, but I fixed it. I still have this 40-year-old calculator. You can even use it with an adapter that plugs into the wall. I also had a small solar-powered calculator in 8th grade, but some kid smashed it and broke it for good.
I've had several scientific calculators in later years. One got ruined in the mid-'90s when a neighbor kid sprayed a hose into my apartment. I didn't have it for very long when this happened.
Did you have a HP calculator? It uses RPN and it generally you have to do things in reverse.
Quote from: Big John on July 26, 2020, 08:42:26 PM
Did you have a HP calculator? It uses RPN and it generally you have to do things in reverse.
I never had one of those.
I had a little collection of calculators going when I was a kid in the 1990s and early 2000s. None of them particularly stick in my mind.
Around 2000 or so, my dad gave me a "pocket computer" that could store phone numbers, had a calculator, and could run BASIC programs. Typing in anything remotely complex was a pain, though, since it only had a one-line LCD display and a very tiny keyboard. You also had to enter reserved words through function keys, i.e. you couldn't type P-R-I-N-T, you hit Fn-[something] that produced the keyword PRINT.
The first graphing calculator I had was a TI-82. I mostly played around with BASIC on it, since I got it before I had any classes that really required the use of a graphing calculator. When I did get into high school math classes that required a graphing calculator, my teacher was a big fan of the Sharp EL-9600c, since she considered TI's syntax interpreter to be lacking (a few demonstrations where reasonable-looking input gave wrong answers hammered home the point). So I got a Sharp EL-9600c, and later upgraded to an EL-9900.
I don't do anything with a graphing calculator anymore. But since I've graduated high school, I've had a Sharp EL-1801PIII adding machine on my desk. I find them easier to use than pocket calculators (i.e. I can ten-key quickly), and always knowing where the calculator is (just to the right of the mouse) is nice.
Back in 1974 or so, while in high school, I saved up my allowance for quite a while and picked up a Bowmar MX-50 calculator for (if I recall correctly) around $49, which was a decent chunk of change back in 1974. Four functions (well five if you count percentage calculation). Only about a fourth of my class actually owned a calculator - most of us in the "geek/nerd" category. But still much better than using our slide rules in chemistry and physics classes. Yes, learning how to use a slide rule was in the curriculum. And I still have that calculator - but have no idea where the A/C adapter is.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Vintage_Bowmar_Electronic_Pocket_Calculator%2C_Model_MX-50_%28aka_90505%29%2C_Red_LED_Display%2C_Sealed_Battery%2C_Made_In_USA%2C_Circa_1973_%2814591513119%29.jpg)
During college (latter 1970's), I used a Texas Instrument SR-56. It was one of the earliest programmable calculators, although there was no way to save your program - you had to retype it in every time you wanted to use it. I also still have this one.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.datamath.org%2FSci%2FWEDGE%2FIMAGES%2Fsr-56.jpg&hash=2f6e1ac2fed379f34be71f7656babbefcbd3fba8)
I have never owned a graphing calculator - once I got my degree I purchased my first computer (an Apple II+) and instead wrote BASIC programs to do graphing in its "high" resolution graphics.
Since entering high school in 2018, I have used the TI-83 Plus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-83_series#TI-83_Plus) for calculations in multiple math and science classes over the years.
The use of a physical calculator is slowly becoming obsolete, as smartphones / other devices are far more popular to do quick, standard calculations. However, more complex calculations most likely require the use of a physical calculator.
Most people in my school have a similar calculator to me, due to the need to do more complex / programmable calculations, and due to the school's ban on smartphones in the classroom.
Quote from: Big John on July 26, 2020, 08:42:26 PM
Did you have a HP calculator? It uses RPN and it generally you have to do things in reverse.
I have an old HP 48GX which uses RPN. Kinda hard to go back to using a regular calculator or the app on my phone once you're used to entering the numbers first. I don't really use it for any advance features or graphing though - just pretty much basic calculations at this point.
When I was little, I had a beige 8-digit LED calc. Don't remember the brand, but I think it was not one of the familiar ones (TI, HP, Sharp, etc.). Might have been 4-function plus square root, but not trig or scientific.
Fun thing about it: when the battery got low, it would start freaking out. Flashing digits in odd places, characters out of the "Ghost in the Machine" album cover, and so on. It was like "all work and no play make Homer something something"
I had 2 Texas Instruments graphing calculators over the years. My first was a TI-86, which I got in high school because it was cheaper than the newer TI-83 Plus and did more. In college I got a TI-89, which I still have to this day but never use it.
A simple Casio 8 digit display, the Texas Instruments SR 56, and a solar powered simple Casio.
Now, my wife and I just use our phones.
I have a TI-30Xa that I still use to balance my checkbook. I've had it for close to 25 years and it still runs on the same battery.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200727/f0a3dd55f8220d6e52b400092a55f4f2.jpg)
TI-34 that I bought for $16 back in 1990.
All solar, always works.
I wish I remember what I even had for calculators.
I did have a calculator watch for a few years. A few at least because 10 year old kids that spend hours outside are not a good mix with them.
Curious if anyone else still has one at a computer. Windows has had a built in computer for years, and at home or work I've always had a decent scientific calculator at my side to use when needed.
I have a TI-84 Plus Silver Edition.
Now, I type things into the Google search bar (without pressing enter). It does calculations automatically, including those with units.
I've had a few in my lifetime. Growing up I used TI calculators, though I can't remember the model #'s of either of the ones I had.
I bought an HP 41-CV programmable my freshman year and it got stolen, or I think it did. Probably just as well, as my engineering college was using the HP 28S and moving students towards the HP 48SX. I got a 28S on loan for my differential equations class, but soon bought the 48SX instead when my co-op job actually paid me more than I needed to live on.
Quote from: kurumi on July 27, 2020, 12:29:27 AM
Fun thing about it: when the battery got low, it would start freaking out. Flashing digits in odd places, characters out of the "Ghost in the Machine" album cover, and so on. It was like "all work and no play make Homer something something"
Speak & Spell would do this too.
Excluding all the el cheapo ones used through elementary school (only +-*/ and sqrt), I've had a couple of TI-30X IIs used since middle school and one I think dating from back then (beginning of the century) I still use for WFH purposes, a TI-89 Titanium bought junior year of high school (thus allowing me to solve calculus problems and then forcing me to borrow one of the school's TI-83s when it came time for tests), and a TI-36X Pro used exactly twice: for my FE exam, and then for my PE exam.
I also remember a toy that was a flat, white square with blue rods that had arithmetic tables on them. This was in the 1970s.
Had several small, standard calculators, and loved playing on my dad's 10 key adding machine. But of the 2 I remember, one was a TI-82, and one was a small blue standard calculator they handed out with the CPA exam I took. That one I just saw recently, and 22 years later it still works!
I have a TI-84 Plus that I used all thru high school and college, and then I had to buy a TI-30X IIS specifically for the FE exam (courtesy of NCEES only allowing a select few calculators :rolleyes:). I keep both at my desk at work now.
Quote from: formulanone on July 27, 2020, 05:54:38 AM
TI-34 that I bought for $16 back in 1990.
All solar, always works.
Yes! I remember having that one too.
Later on, when I got to high school, I got a TI-83. A couple years later, what I considered the grand prize, the TI-89. It still sits in the desk drawer where I'm typing right now, over 15 years later.
I remember having a TI that, overall, looked similar to the second one shown in dlsterner's post, although I think it was an accounting calculator and so didn't list the various trig functions seen on the one in the photo there. (It belonged to my dad and I more or less borrowed it and never gave it back after he got a printing calculator for himself.) This was some 35 years ago, so it's understandable why I don't remember the details.
I went through a lot of calculators over the years, many of them fairly basic ones. Some broke, others got lost, sometimes I just wanted a faster one. I really don't remember them other than that TI. I will note I never had a graphing calculator. Those were just starting to appear when I was in high school, they were expensive, only one or two people had them, and I took my final math class during my junior year of high school and was not required to take any math classes in college, so I never needed a graphing calculator.
I have no idea whether any of those old calculators are still around. Nowadays I tend just to use the calculator app on my iPhone or iPad (the latter a third-party app because Apple inexplicably doesn't include one) or my PCs, or in a pinch I may just ask Siri. If I need more detailed calculations or I need to see more history of the numbers I punched in (say because I expect I'll make a typo), I'll use Excel.
I also had this as my first calculator for a few years; it apparently came with a workbook but I don't remember it. I think it's the only thing I've ever owned besides a clock radio which had a red LED display.
The Little Professor, courtesy of 3ryon at reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/9i4lg9/meet_mr_professor/):
(https://i.redd.it/v1f2lrwzyvn11.jpg)
Quote from: formulanone on July 27, 2020, 12:34:37 PM
I also had this as my first calculator for a few years; it apparently came with a workbook but I don't remember it. I think it's the only thing I've ever owned besides a clock radio which had a red LED display.
The Little Professor, courtesy of 3ryon at reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/9i4lg9/meet_mr_professor/):
(https://i.redd.it/v1f2lrwzyvn11.jpg)
This wasn't a calculator though right? This was a quiz game. Did it have a calculator function?
The first calculator I used for actual math was a TI-30X IIS scientific calculator, which I used for algebra 1 and geometry homework on occasion. Unfortunately, I could only use it on homework, because at the time I was not allowed to have a calculator in school. To do trig problems, I would have to use a printed table that gave the sine, cosine, and tangent values to three decimal places for every degree value from 0 to 90. And then I’d usually have to multiply that into some 2 or 3 digit number...by hand. If a problem involved pi, I’d have to use 3.14. It absolutely sucked. I lost way too many points on tests because of math errors from multiplying 4-digit numbers by 3-digit numbers by hand.
After that I was finally allowed to use a calculator in class, and I got a TI-84 Plus Silver Edition. It lasted me through high school, but during my first semester of college it started getting less reliable (batteries could randomly die, half of screen might not light up, etc). I still keep that one as a backup, but my primary calculator is now a TI-84 Plus CE.
Ahem (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24405.msg2402334#msg2402334). I knew I had posted about this before in a bandit thread, but I made a zine about a calculator in middle school. It was called "I'm The Operator of My Pocket Calculator", as I recall.
Quote from: US 89 on July 27, 2020, 01:29:48 PM
The first calculator I used for actual math was a TI-30X IIS scientific calculator
Same here, and I still have it, although I was allowed to use it at school, fortunately!
My first calculator (in 1976) was a TI-30, which my parents bought for me when I started high school. Unlike most TI calculators of the era, the TI-30 used a 9 volt battery instead of the nickel cadium battery pack, so the calculator lasted through my junior year in college. I remember how, if you pushed a certain combinaton of keys, you could turn the calculator on or off without using the on/off button.
Don't recall most of the brands/models of calculators I've had since then. For the past ten years of so, I've been using a pair of cheap Wexford solar claculators (one's at home, and one's in the office. Of course, I'm also old enough that I can reliably do simple calculations in my head. I've also done up "inches to feet" and "millimeters to feet" (from back when plans were in metric units) charts for typical BGS dimensions.
Quote from: formulanone on July 27, 2020, 12:34:37 PM
I also had this as my first calculator for a few years; it apparently came with a workbook but I don't remember it. I think it's the only thing I've ever owned besides a clock radio which had a red LED display.
The Little Professor, courtesy of 3ryon at reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/9i4lg9/meet_mr_professor/):
Wow. I had one of those....
Quote from: US 89 on July 27, 2020, 01:29:48 PM
Unfortunately, I could only use it on homework, because at the time I was not allowed to have a calculator in school. To do trig problems, I would have to use a printed table that gave the sine, cosine, and tangent values to three decimal places for every degree value from 0 to 90. And then I'd usually have to multiply that into some 2 or 3 digit number...by hand. If a problem involved pi, I'd have to use 3.14. It absolutely sucked. I lost way too many points on tests because of math errors from multiplying 4-digit numbers by 3-digit numbers by hand.
Thanks for reminding me of one of the most infuriating bits of school. Not letting people use calculators never made sense to me. There is no inherent moral benefit to doing arithmetic by hand; all you're doing is introducing more chances for errors to creep into the process and undermine the student's confidence that they're doing it right. The purpose of teaching math is to teach the process; if you don't know the process to getting the right answer, the calculator is a paperweight.
"Well, what if you have to do it without a calculator someday?" the adults would always smugly ask. My last job involved a lot of math, and it was very important to get the right answers, because a hundred thousand dollars a day depended on it, and any errors you had to pay out of your salary. And every employee had two calculators within arm's reach at all times.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 27, 2020, 09:11:05 AM
I remember having a TI that, overall, looked similar to the second one shown in dlsterner's post, although I think it was an accounting calculator and so didn't list the various trig functions seen on the one in the photo there. (It belonged to my dad and I more or less borrowed it and never gave it back after he got a printing calculator for himself.) This was some 35 years ago, so it's understandable why I don't remember the details.
Just a shot in the dark, could it have been a TI-41 by any chance?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vintagecalculators.com%2FTI41_2_b.jpg&hash=7ce8c7ab5763d43551045d13836d12a8d3dd69d6)
Most of my calculators have been different generations of the TI-30, including the old original LED model.
I had a Sharp fx-7000G that I used from my junior year of high school through junior semester of college.
For actuarial exams, I also had a BA-II and a BA-35 at different times, and my first few exams (around the time they started allowing calculators to be used on actuarial exams) we had to buy this miserable little TI solar calculator that could add, subtract, multiply, divide, and do exponentials, and frequently fell apart at the least convenient time...a TI-108, perhaps?
Now, I just use R, Excel, the Windows calc app, or Android's calculator app....whichever is most convenient at the time.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 26, 2020, 09:01:34 PM
When I did get into high school math classes that required a graphing calculator, my teacher was a big fan of the Sharp EL-9600c, since she considered TI's syntax interpreter to be lacking (a few demonstrations where reasonable-looking input gave wrong answers hammered home the point).
Just out of idle curiosity, what are some of examples of these wrong answers? I used a TI-82 all throughout high school and college without really noticing anything weird.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 27, 2020, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 27, 2020, 01:29:48 PM
Unfortunately, I could only use it on homework, because at the time I was not allowed to have a calculator in school. To do trig problems, I would have to use a printed table that gave the sine, cosine, and tangent values to three decimal places for every degree value from 0 to 90. And then I’d usually have to multiply that into some 2 or 3 digit number...by hand. If a problem involved pi, I’d have to use 3.14. It absolutely sucked. I lost way too many points on tests because of math errors from multiplying 4-digit numbers by 3-digit numbers by hand.
Thanks for reminding me of one of the most infuriating bits of school. Not letting people use calculators never made sense to me. There is no inherent moral benefit to doing arithmetic by hand; all you're doing is introducing more chances for errors to creep into the process and undermine the student's confidence that they're doing it right. The purpose of teaching math is to teach the process; if you don't know the process to getting the right answer, the calculator is a paperweight.
Probably the best reason to do things by hand is to develop the ability to give a quick “sanity check” to your answers. Having that ability can help identify typos and other such errors as you work. Otherwise there’s a tendency to just accept what the calculator shows even when it doesn’t make sense, like getting 58 − 25 = 83 without taking the time to see that the result has to be smaller than the first number you start with.
That said, there is clearly a limit to this, and having to multiply 2- and 3-digit numbers together is almost certainly counterproductive and perhaps even meaningless, even when compared to something in a more symbolic, but uncalculated form, as in 3π/2, which is often equivalent to a rotation of 270 degrees, whereas the decimal equivalent 4.71238 is pretty much just a number.
Quote from: dlsterner on July 28, 2020, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 27, 2020, 09:11:05 AM
I remember having a TI that, overall, looked similar to the second one shown in dlsterner's post, although I think it was an accounting calculator and so didn't list the various trig functions seen on the one in the photo there. (It belonged to my dad and I more or less borrowed it and never gave it back after he got a printing calculator for himself.) This was some 35 years ago, so it's understandable why I don't remember the details.
Just a shot in the dark, could it have been a TI-41 by any chance?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vintagecalculators.com%2FTI41_2_b.jpg&hash=7ce8c7ab5763d43551045d13836d12a8d3dd69d6)
May have been. That looks familiar.
I had a simple TI (maybe a TI-80) when I was in high school. Square root was the only advanced function it had. Later, I got a more advanced TI which looked similar to one posted early in this thread. It may have been a TI-56. Neither were cheap, IIRC.
Of course, now you can get a calculator for $1 at Dollar Tree.
I used to be decent at doing math in my head, or on paper, but calculators ruined it for me.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 28, 2020, 01:43:17 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 26, 2020, 09:01:34 PM
When I did get into high school math classes that required a graphing calculator, my teacher was a big fan of the Sharp EL-9600c, since she considered TI's syntax interpreter to be lacking (a few demonstrations where reasonable-looking input gave wrong answers hammered home the point).
Just out of idle curiosity, what are some of examples of these wrong answers? I used a TI-82 all throughout high school and college without really noticing anything weird.
I remember hearing concerns with accuracy down at the level of 8-10 significant digits. Not a big deal for most homework/tests, and estimations...but probably really frustrating for things that require a lot of precision.
I can't recall specific examples, but I remember that a high school math teacher showed us that different calculators had differing values at the 9-10th digit for trig functions and logarithms.
I believe that entering 2/3X (where you have already defined X previously) gives different results on a TI-85 and TI-86. My TI-84 interpreted it as 2/3 * X, not 2 / (3X).
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 27, 2020, 12:45:48 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 27, 2020, 12:34:37 PM
I also had this as my first calculator for a few years; it apparently came with a workbook but I don't remember it. I think it's the only thing I've ever owned besides a clock radio which had a red LED display.
The Little Professor, courtesy of 3ryon at reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/9i4lg9/meet_mr_professor/):
(https://i.redd.it/v1f2lrwzyvn11.jpg)
This wasn't a calculator though right? This was a quiz game. Did it have a calculator function?
I recall you could just type in 2 + 3, then GO, and it would answer, but my memory is really hazy on that. Maybe I just used the quiz part a lot.
My grandfather had something like this on his desk, and the sounds were great, especially when you hit the Grand Total (GT) button:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTNyO-HBVwEr55i-ASjXKSG46r0YeCoeshbgw&usqp=CAU)
I couldn't tell you the exact model, but it was definitely mostly gray with white, yellow, and orange buttons, and used a journal roll for output.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 28, 2020, 01:43:17 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 26, 2020, 09:01:34 PM
When I did get into high school math classes that required a graphing calculator, my teacher was a big fan of the Sharp EL-9600c, since she considered TI's syntax interpreter to be lacking (a few demonstrations where reasonable-looking input gave wrong answers hammered home the point).
Just out of idle curiosity, what are some of examples of these wrong answers? I used a TI-82 all throughout high school and college without really noticing anything weird.
It's pretty optimistic to think I retained anything from that class, which was probably 15 years ago at this point, when the knowledge given in it has never been used for anything other than taking tests in that class.
So with that in mind, I think it had to do with the fraction bar. I remember a key feature of the Sharp was that it had a "real" fraction bar that clearly displayed what was above the line and what was below. That is, the numerator would take up one line, the second line would be the bar, and the third line would be the denominator. I think the TI had an in-line character representing where the fraction bar was, but wouldn't necessarily put everything before it above the bar unless you used parenthesis. So a reasonable-looking input on the TI would result in a wrong answer, because if you put something like 22+7(fraction bar)16+6 it would interpret that as something like 22+(7/(16+6)) instead of the intended (22+7)/(16+6). On the Sharp it would be simple to notice this error because the "22+" would be off to the left of the fraction entirely.
It was something that is probably second nature to a TI user to work around, but the teacher felt like it wasn't worth trying to instill in the students' heads, so we all bought Sharps instead.
Quote
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 27, 2020, 11:08:00 PM
Thanks for reminding me of one of the most infuriating bits of school. Not letting people use calculators never made sense to me. There is no inherent moral benefit to doing arithmetic by hand; all you're doing is introducing more chances for errors to creep into the process and undermine the student's confidence that they're doing it right. The purpose of teaching math is to teach the process; if you don't know the process to getting the right answer, the calculator is a paperweight.
Probably the best reason to do things by hand is to develop the ability to give a quick "sanity check" to your answers. Having that ability can help identify typos and other such errors as you work. Otherwise there's a tendency to just accept what the calculator shows even when it doesn't make sense, like getting 58 − 25 = 83 without taking the time to see that the result has to be smaller than the first number you start with.
This is a nice thought, but for people like me who, under time pressure, tend to get mixed up and think 7+3=11, or 7+8=16, there is no value in adding an "insanity check". Mental math doesn't work for everyone.
I've gotten a little better with years of practice and dealing with making change at work, but I still know better than to trust my mental math without verifying it with a calculator. To guard against typos, I always use a calculator with a history function or paper tape, and give my input a once-over before acting on the result. Graphing calculators are good about this, as they leave exactly what you typed in on the left edge of the screen and then put the result on a new line on the right.
Quote from: formulanone on July 28, 2020, 12:15:39 PM
My grandfather had something like this on his desk
Oh man, grandpa calculators are the best. I inherited one of these from my great-grandfather.
(https://miro.medium.com/max/498/1*J3QAk3FL2dbj70_CvPHHCQ.jpeg)
So this is a manual calculator that only does addition and subtraction. You input numbers by putting the stylus in the slot next to a number and dragging it toward the windows in the center. If the stylus would go in a red painted slot, instead, you drag it away from the windows, so that it goes around that little bend and carries a 1 over to the next place. To clear you pull out the bar at the top and it pulls all the numbers back to zero.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 28, 2020, 12:38:49 PM
This is a nice thought
This comes across as dismissive, but that generally doesn't seem to be your style, so I'm not sure how to take it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 28, 2020, 12:38:49 PM
but for people like me who, under time pressure, tend to get mixed up and think 7+3=11, or 7+8=16, there is no value in adding an "insanity check". Mental math doesn't work for everyone.
I would say that in this case, your mental math is close enough to serve as a sanity check, in that the answer you and the calculator come up with broadly coincide. By which I mean that if the calculator gave you 7 + 8 = 56, your inner alarm bells would go off. That said, a sanity check is not a strict accuracy test, like the ones you seem to have developed.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 28, 2020, 12:38:49 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 28, 2020, 01:43:17 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 26, 2020, 09:01:34 PM
When I did get into high school math classes that required a graphing calculator, my teacher was a big fan of the Sharp EL-9600c, since she considered TI's syntax interpreter to be lacking (a few demonstrations where reasonable-looking input gave wrong answers hammered home the point).
Just out of idle curiosity, what are some of examples of these wrong answers? I used a TI-82 all throughout high school and college without really noticing anything weird.
So with that in mind, I think it had to do with the fraction bar.
Say no more. Despite the generally accepted order of operations, in the "math world," division pretty always happens last, because the fraction bar is considered to be a grouping symbol, like parentheses (and the bar that goes over the radicand in root expressions). The TIs and most regular calculators, though, consider division a "regular" operation, which can mess things up. Having access to a fraction bar as you input would avoid having to deal with that difference.
This also affects things like 2/3X, which was mentioned above. The fraction bar, as well as typographical layout, help make clear how that expression is to be evaluated in a way that doesn't happen with your run-of-the-mill calculators. That is,
(https://i.imgur.com/p9KzX6k.png)
So, long story short, I can see your teacher's point.
I've only ever had one calculator–the one I got in eighth grade–and it still works. So I don't have much to contribute to the conversation. But I thought some of you might be interested in the video below. Try it out with your own scientific calculator and see what happens. Does your calculator render the following?
11
6÷13 = a rational multiple of π
I have had a few calculators:
First one was a Rockwell, from the mid 1970s. Pretty basic, four functions plus percent, one memory.
Next was a HP 33E. Yes, one of the 'reverse polish' models, for which you enter the numbers first and then the operation you're doing with them. It's backwards from the way we write them, but once you've used it a bit it's a lot simpler when working with complex expressions. It was programmable with short steps (50 or 100 steps, I think) and had 10 memories outside the stack of four numbers. Wonderfully reliable calculator, in fact it still works. HP made them to last. The keys had good feedback so you wouldn't double-press without noticing it.
I also got a HP 32S, which is also a great calculator and still works.
It still amazes me that now TI owns the sophisticated calculator market instead of HP. I guess it has to do with HP dividing itself between the high-end manufacturer of lab and medical instruments, and the low-end manufacturer of cheap computers and printers, and the low-end manufacturer got the calculator business and the HP name, and their reputation went down after a few years of cost-cutting.
I also have a HP 19B-II, with lots of business functions, loan computations, longer programs. Bought for my ex when she was studying for her real estate license.
And a couple of slide rules and an abacus, just in case.
A long time ago, I actually designed a very advanced scientific calculator on a sheet of paper. It had a lot of the features scientific calculators have, but it had some that were totally ridiculous. I think it even had a feature to change the color of the display. or maybe add sound.
I just remembered that a scientific calculator I had in college had a random number generator. I used it as music selection software when I worked for the college radio station.
HP 33 did not have a random number generator, but it did have statistical functions: you could input a long list of numbers and it would tell you the total, N, the mean, median, and standard deviation.
A long, long, long time ago, I read about a weird system of numbers that had names like "megiston". The numbers had squares and circles around them. I think I read it in a magazine when I was very young.
I think the calculator I designed may have used these numbers.
Quote from: bandit957 on July 28, 2020, 09:05:38 PM
A long, long, long time ago, I read about a weird system of numbers that had names like "megiston". The numbers had squares and circles around them. I think I read it in a magazine when I was very young.
I think the calculator I designed may have used these numbers.
Those numbers are unbelievably large.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinhaus—Moser_notation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinhaus%E2%80%94Moser_notation)
Quote from: bandit957 on July 28, 2020, 08:53:35 PM
A long time ago, I actually designed a very advanced scientific calculator on a sheet of paper.
Oh thats nothing. I once drew a spaceship.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 28, 2020, 12:52:30 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 28, 2020, 12:15:39 PM
My grandfather had something like this on his desk
Oh man, grandpa calculators are the best. I inherited one of these from my great-grandfather.
(https://miro.medium.com/max/498/1*J3QAk3FL2dbj70_CvPHHCQ.jpeg)
So this is a manual calculator that only does addition and subtraction. You input numbers by putting the stylus in the slot next to a number and dragging it toward the windows in the center. If the stylus would go in a red painted slot, instead, you drag it away from the windows, so that it goes around that little bend and carries a 1 over to the next place. To clear you pull out the bar at the top and it pulls all the numbers back to zero.
I had one of these - I'd forgotten all about it.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 28, 2020, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 28, 2020, 12:38:49 PM
This is a nice thought
This comes across as dismissive, but that generally doesn't seem to be your style, so I'm not sure how to take it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 28, 2020, 12:38:49 PM
but for people like me who, under time pressure, tend to get mixed up and think 7+3=11, or 7+8=16, there is no value in adding an "insanity check". Mental math doesn't work for everyone.
I would say that in this case, your mental math is close enough to serve as a sanity check, in that the answer you and the calculator come up with broadly coincide. By which I mean that if the calculator gave you 7 + 8 = 56, your inner alarm bells would go off. That said, a sanity check is not a strict accuracy test, like the ones you seem to have developed.
The intent was not to be dismissive, but rather to indicate that while the thought of developing a sanity check is a good idea, its value as a diagnostic is comparatively low compared to the value of the calculator as a "safety net" to allow the student to focus on the actual mathematical procedure being taught, and not have to worry about the procedure not coming out correctly due to math errors.
I had a bad time in just about every math class I took, from elementary school to college, just because I'm not really mentally wired to retain information like addition and times tables. Thus teachers in my school (especially in the middle-school grades) tended to do things like only allow a calculator on a test if you could pass a times-tables test where you had to do something like get fifty questions right in two minutes, or something like that. The result is not that I got a better understanding of mental math, sanity checks, or whatever it was we were testing on, but that I scored poorly on tests because of simple math errors that wouldn't occur if I was equipped to handle them as I would be in the real world. It was an incredibly frustrating experience.
The whole experience led me with a lot of resentment toward mathematics as a discipline. I've read some articles that have said this type of experience (failures in effective teaching leading to a disdain toward the field) is pretty commonplace, so much so that there's a shortage of applicants to graduate-level math programs. People learn early on that they "hate math" and don't seriously consider it as a career field, just something that has to be endured because it's a prerequisite.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 29, 2020, 01:48:38 PM
I had a bad time in just about every math class I took, from elementary school to college, just because I'm not really mentally wired to retain information like addition and times tables. Thus teachers in my school (especially in the middle-school grades) tended to do things like only allow a calculator on a test if you could pass a times-tables test where you had to do something like get fifty questions right in two minutes, or something like that. The result is not that I got a better understanding of mental math, sanity checks, or whatever it was we were testing on, but that I scored poorly on tests because of simple math errors that wouldn't occur if I was equipped to handle them as I would be in the real world. It was an incredibly frustrating experience.
I was in high school just as cheap scientific calculators were becoming popular, and there was serious debate as to the extent to which high school students should be allowed to use them (as opposed to doing arithmetic by hand, and using tables for trig functions).
My high school calculus teacher took a pragmatic approach, realizing that in the "real world" (and probably in college) going forward, we would probably be using computers and calculators...but that basic arithmetic was still important to know.
So, for most of her exams, she assumed that if we knew the material, arithmetic errors (or being too slow with arithmetic) should never cost us more than a letter grade. We would therefore take our tests in two parts, one short one where we were not allowed to use calculators...and then we would hand that in, get the main test which we were allowed to use our calculators on. Those tests were graded on a curve, with the first portion scaled such that it was worth the difference between "A" and "B".
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 28, 2020, 12:52:30 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 28, 2020, 12:15:39 PM
My grandfather had something like this on his desk
Oh man, grandpa calculators are the best. I inherited one of these from my great-grandfather.
(https://miro.medium.com/max/498/1*J3QAk3FL2dbj70_CvPHHCQ.jpeg)
So this is a manual calculator that only does addition and subtraction. You input numbers by putting the stylus in the slot next to a number and dragging it toward the windows in the center. If the stylus would go in a red painted slot, instead, you drag it away from the windows, so that it goes around that little bend and carries a 1 over to the next place. To clear you pull out the bar at the top and it pulls all the numbers back to zero.
On occasion (pre-COVID), when I attended big meetings at work in person, I sometimes liked to bring my grandfather's slide rule. I mean, the finance guys all brought their calculators, and the other actuaries have Excel or R on the computers that accompany them. So, I went old-school out of principle. :D
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 27, 2020, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 27, 2020, 01:29:48 PM
Unfortunately, I could only use it on homework, because at the time I was not allowed to have a calculator in school. To do trig problems, I would have to use a printed table that gave the sine, cosine, and tangent values to three decimal places for every degree value from 0 to 90. And then I'd usually have to multiply that into some 2 or 3 digit number...by hand. If a problem involved pi, I'd have to use 3.14. It absolutely sucked. I lost way too many points on tests because of math errors from multiplying 4-digit numbers by 3-digit numbers by hand.
Thanks for reminding me of one of the most infuriating bits of school. Not letting people use calculators never made sense to me. There is no inherent moral benefit to doing arithmetic by hand; all you're doing is introducing more chances for errors to creep into the process and undermine the student's confidence that they're doing it right. The purpose of teaching math is to teach the process; if you don't know the process to getting the right answer, the calculator is a paperweight.
"Well, what if you have to do it without a calculator someday?" the adults would always smugly ask. My last job involved a lot of math, and it was very important to get the right answers, because a hundred thousand dollars a day depended on it, and any errors you had to pay out of your salary. And every employee had two calculators within arm's reach at all times.
Partly it was a matter of equity. Some people could not afford a calculator (probably before your time). Some people could only afford a 4-function calculator, while others could might have a calculator that can solve quadratic equations and integrate complicated functions on its own.
Also the more sophisticated calculators could be used to store formulas that the students were expected to memorize; a high-tech crib sheet.
I remember when TI came out with the SR-10. I believe it cost $149 in 1973. What was great about it was that it had scientific notation, so you should enter those big physics constants into it and not have to worry about making a mistake with the exponents. I think it was replaced by the SR-11, which was pretty much the same calculator but had a Pi key.
One guy in one of my high school classes had an HP-45. I think it cost almost $400, and that was the first time I saw Reverse Polish Notation. Most of us were in awe, and didn't even want to think about entering the values backward.
So when I went to college I bought an TI SR-50. All of the engineering and scientific functions. After a year with it, and watching other people use their HP calculators more efficiently than I could use my TI, I gave in to RPN and bought an HP-25. When it gave up the ghost I replaced it with an HP-11C.
I now have an HP 35s scientific calculator and an HP 17BII financial calculator, which I bought when I started business school.
Quote from: kkt on July 29, 2020, 11:21:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 27, 2020, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 27, 2020, 01:29:48 PM
Unfortunately, I could only use it on homework, because at the time I was not allowed to have a calculator in school. To do trig problems, I would have to use a printed table that gave the sine, cosine, and tangent values to three decimal places for every degree value from 0 to 90. And then I'd usually have to multiply that into some 2 or 3 digit number...by hand. If a problem involved pi, I'd have to use 3.14. It absolutely sucked. I lost way too many points on tests because of math errors from multiplying 4-digit numbers by 3-digit numbers by hand.
Thanks for reminding me of one of the most infuriating bits of school. Not letting people use calculators never made sense to me. There is no inherent moral benefit to doing arithmetic by hand; all you're doing is introducing more chances for errors to creep into the process and undermine the student's confidence that they're doing it right. The purpose of teaching math is to teach the process; if you don't know the process to getting the right answer, the calculator is a paperweight.
"Well, what if you have to do it without a calculator someday?" the adults would always smugly ask. My last job involved a lot of math, and it was very important to get the right answers, because a hundred thousand dollars a day depended on it, and any errors you had to pay out of your salary. And every employee had two calculators within arm's reach at all times.
Partly it was a matter of equity. Some people could not afford a calculator (probably before your time). Some people could only afford a 4-function calculator, while others could might have a calculator that can solve quadratic equations and integrate complicated functions on its own.
Also the more sophisticated calculators could be used to store formulas that the students were expected to memorize; a high-tech crib sheet.
During the time I was in school, you could get a basic calculator for something like ten dollars. Even if someone couldn't afford that, the teacher had a calculator she could have loaned them for the test.
I think forced memorization of formulas is silly (again, if you can't remember the formula, in the real world you can always look it up; the important thing is knowing which formula to use and how to solve it), but if that needs to be controlled for, I remember reading some schools only allow a graphing calculator on a test after displaying a "Memory Cleared" message to the proctor. (This would have irked me, though, since I think I learned more by programming the calculator than doing the homework, and I would have been upset to lose the work I'd done on unrelated projects just so that a teacher could go on a power trip about calculator memory.)
The real solution to both problems is for the school to provide calculators for test-taking, but that would require politicians to give a shit about our school system, which is unrealistic.
I do roll my eyes when I encounter younger cashiers who struggle to calculate the change for a cash purchase if they don't a machine to do it for them, or who can't understand why you might give them, say, $3.06 for a $2.56 purchase.
Ok, Boomer.
At least you use cash rather than write personal checks.
Of course, the rest of us just use cards.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2020, 06:57:04 PM
I do roll my eyes when I encounter younger cashiers who struggle to calculate the change for a cash purchase if they don't a machine to do it for them, or who can't understand why you might give them, say, $3.06 for a $2.56 purchase.
I actually use cash on occasion, and if I'm waiting in a drive thru line, I'll do the math to figure out the easiest amount to pay. Sometimes, this means overpaying in bills, but still adding change, like the example you mentioned.
But I guess I'm not sure how I would know whether the cashier "understood" or not.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2020, 06:57:04 PM
I do roll my eyes when I encounter younger cashiers who struggle to calculate the change for a cash purchase if they don't a machine to do it for them, or who can't understand why you might give them, say, $3.06 for a $2.56 purchase.
Usually the "struggle" is not because they are having trouble with math, but because they are pressured by management to get transactions done so that people don't bitch about having to wait in line and you broke their flow.
In most cases, I could get the 44¢ out of my drawer and hand it to you while you're still fishing around for a nickel in your pocket change holding up my line.
Part of accepting cash for payment is making change with the least number of coins, not whatever is fastest for the cashier. Think of the money the business is saving in not paying credit card fees.
Quote from: kkt on August 01, 2020, 12:25:59 AM
Part of accepting cash for payment is making change with the least number of coins, not whatever is fastest for the cashier. Think of the money the business is saving in not paying credit card fees.
Have you ever met a manager before?
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 01, 2020, 12:42:13 PM
Quote from: kkt on August 01, 2020, 12:25:59 AM
Part of accepting cash for payment is making change with the least number of coins, not whatever is fastest for the cashier. Think of the money the business is saving in not paying credit card fees.
Have you ever met a manager before?
Yes.
Did a manager tell you that the way to success in business was to piss off your customers by leaving them with an unnecessary handful of change? Did a manager tell you that everyone over, are you really 30?, over 30 1/2 is always going to take 5 minutes dragging coins out of their pocket and have to be moved along with a cattle prod?
TI-84.
Quote from: kkt on August 01, 2020, 05:54:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 01, 2020, 12:42:13 PM
Quote from: kkt on August 01, 2020, 12:25:59 AM
Part of accepting cash for payment is making change with the least number of coins, not whatever is fastest for the cashier. Think of the money the business is saving in not paying credit card fees.
Have you ever met a manager before?
Yes.
Did a manager tell you that the way to success in business was to piss off your customers by leaving them with an unnecessary handful of change? Did a manager tell you that everyone over, are you really 30?, over 30 1/2 is always going to take 5 minutes dragging coins out of their pocket and have to be moved along with a cattle prod?
Heh, there's plenty of times you'd have to give a few too many nickels and dimes. You're not going to hold up the parade of paying customers to get a roll of quarters. The trick was to not overdo it, unless it was late and you were supposed to leave twenty minutes ago.
Also, I'd sometimes give obnoxious weird amounts back to people who bought an $7.23 purchase with a fifty or hundred dollar bill, and the darn till wouldn't close because you had a too many ones or some two-dollar bills taking up space.
Quote from: kkt on August 01, 2020, 05:54:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 01, 2020, 12:42:13 PM
Quote from: kkt on August 01, 2020, 12:25:59 AM
Part of accepting cash for payment is making change with the least number of coins, not whatever is fastest for the cashier. Think of the money the business is saving in not paying credit card fees.
Have you ever met a manager before?
Yes.
Did a manager tell you that the way to success in business was to piss off your customers by leaving them with an unnecessary handful of change? Did a manager tell you that everyone over, are you really 30?, over 30 1/2 is always going to take 5 minutes dragging coins out of their pocket and have to be moved along with a cattle prod?
If someone is going to get pissed off over having stewardship of 7 coins more than before, they're probably unstable enough to get pissed off over some other random, arbitrary thing that the business may or may not have control over.
As a cashier I regularly did five and six figures worth of transactions, in cash, in a single shift. If someone wanted to pitch a fit over seven coins everyone but the customer would have just rolled their eyes, probably while asking them to step aside so that the cashier could do the $1,200 transaction in line behind them.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2020, 06:57:04 PM
I do roll my eyes when I encounter younger cashiers who struggle to calculate the change for a cash purchase if they don't a machine to do it for them, or who can't understand why you might give them, say, $3.06 for a $2.56 purchase.
Or when your bill is $10.85, and you hand them a twenty and a one. They almost always try to give you the one back so they can give you $9.15 in change.
Avoiding coins, I get, because they're heavy. But bills barely weigh anything, so having five $1s doesn't even affect you negatively in any way. It can even help, because then you can pay for something that's $3ish without having to break a $5 (fat chance anyone is going to have a $10 to give you). Or you can just give someone the five $1s all at once.
Why are you people like this?
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:37:37 PM
Avoiding coins, I get, because they're heavy. But bills barely weigh anything, so having five $1s doesn't even affect you negatively in any way.
Too many bills in my wallet make it bulky in my pocket and difficult to close.
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:37:37 PM
Avoiding coins, I get, because they're heavy. But bills barely weigh anything, so having five $1s doesn't even affect you negatively in any way.
Too many bills in my wallet make it bulky in my pocket and difficult to close.
Leave some at home, then? Spend the smaller bills first? Visit the bank?
There's a good reason to pay $11 with $21 (if you have no 10s): they don't have to give back four $1 bills. Most places give out more $1 bills than they receive.
Quote from: kkt on August 01, 2020, 12:25:59 AM
Part of accepting cash for payment is making change with the least number of coins, not whatever is fastest for the cashier. Think of the money the business is saving in not paying credit card fees.
Credit card transaction fees are already built into the price of the products your buying.
Credit card transaction purchases also tend to allow the buyer to purchase more stuff than if they used cash. That's why you see credit cards used in almost all business lines now. Convenience stores and fast food restaurants were long-time holdouts of credit cards purchases...until they realized the average purchase transaction per customer went up considerably, making more in revenue than the cost in transaction fees.
Quote from: 1 on August 04, 2020, 01:36:10 PM
There's a good reason to pay $11 with $21 (if you have no 10s): they don't have to give back four $1 bills. Most places give out more $1 bills than they receive.
We all know that. The person at the register can't figure that out though.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 01:31:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:37:37 PM
Avoiding coins, I get, because they're heavy. But bills barely weigh anything, so having five $1s doesn't even affect you negatively in any way.
Too many bills in my wallet make it bulky in my pocket and difficult to close.
Leave some at home, then? Spend the smaller bills first? Visit the bank?
Or just avoid getting small bills as change because they do indeed affect me negatively. Other than usually keeping a couple of dollars in my wallet to cover bus fare in case my car breaks down, I have little use for cash; I typically carry two bucks. (For the record, I just checked my wallet
after typing that, and I indeed have two dollars in my wallet at this very moment.)
So if my wife gives me $40 to get something at the store, and the total comes to $31.16, then you can bet I'm grabbing those two singles out of my own wallet-stash–in order to end up with a single bill in my wallet after the transaction (a $10 bill that the cashier will hand me as change), rather than six (the two singles I had starting out plus the five and three singles I'd get back in change).
Quote from: 1 on August 04, 2020, 01:36:10 PM
There's a good reason to pay $11 with $21 (if you have no 10s): they don't have to give back four $1 bills. Most places give out more $1 bills than they receive.
Which is the principal reason I do it. Having fewer one dollar bills in my wallet is a secondary benefit.
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 01:52:22 PM
So if my wife gives me $40 to get something at the store, and the total comes to $31.16, then you can bet I'm grabbing those two singles out of my own wallet-stash–in order to end up with a single bill in my wallet after the transaction (a $10 bill that the cashier will hand me as change),
Good luck with that–most places don't stock $10s in their starting till anymore, so you're going to get two $5s, unless someone else paid with a $10 already. Which is unlikely, since most banks only hand out $20s, unless you twist their arm to get $10s.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 01:52:22 PM
So if my wife gives me $40 to get something at the store, and the total comes to $31.16, then you can bet I'm grabbing those two singles out of my own wallet-stash–in order to end up with a single bill in my wallet after the transaction (a $10 bill that the cashier will hand me as change),
Good luck with that–most places don't stock $10s in their starting till anymore, so you're going to get two $5s, unless someone else paid with a $10 already. Which is unlikely, since most banks only hand out $20s, unless you twist their arm to get $10s.
I usually get a ten back in those situations. But, even if I don't, three is still less than six.
I will usually get $100 worth of $10s from the bank. I have no issue closing my wallet until I get up to about 30 bills or so.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 02:53:18 PM
I have no issue closing my wallet until I get up to about 30 bills or so.
Good for you.
Seriously, I
do have trouble closing my wallet at fewer than 30 bills. And more than just a few makes it bulky enough for me to notice when sitting down. (I should mention that I'm very skinny, so I have a padding-less butt.)
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:37:37 PM
Avoiding coins, I get, because they're heavy. But bills barely weigh anything, so having five $1s doesn't even affect you negatively in any way.
Too many bills in my wallet make it bulky in my pocket and difficult to close.
I've never had that issue. If only...
Quote from: hbelkins on August 04, 2020, 05:11:56 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:37:37 PM
Avoiding coins, I get, because they're heavy. But bills barely weigh anything, so having five $1s doesn't even affect you negatively in any way.
Too many bills in my wallet make it bulky in my pocket and difficult to close.
I've never had that issue. If only...
Even better if they're all $100s. :-D
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 03:16:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 02:53:18 PM
I have no issue closing my wallet until I get up to about 30 bills or so.
Good for you.
Seriously, I do have trouble closing my wallet at fewer than 30 bills. And more than just a few makes it bulky enough for me to notice when sitting down. (I should mention that I'm very skinny, so I have a padding-less butt.)
I think that's a wallet problem, not a you problem.
Quote from: webny99 on August 04, 2020, 09:39:42 PM
I think that's a wallet problem, not a you problem.
Perhaps. It's a tri-fold wallet, so I suppose there's extra non-money material compared to a bi-fold one. But–call me cheap–I'm not about to go and buy a new wallet just so
Scott5114 can rest assured that I'm paying for store purchases in a manner he prefers.
(I found the wallet in a trash can at work nearly twenty years ago.)
...A trifold wallet you dug out of the trash 20 years ago?
Once things settle down here, I'll buy you a new wallet. :-D
Quote from: kphoger on August 06, 2020, 02:43:03 PM
(I found the wallet in a trash can at work nearly twenty years ago.)
Snakes alive.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 06, 2020, 11:09:57 PM
Once things settle down here, I'll buy you a new wallet. :-D
I'll contribute. I won't notice the difference between 3 and 4 bills in my wallet.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 06, 2020, 11:09:57 PM
...A trifold wallet you dug out of the trash 20 years ago?
Once things settle down here, I'll buy you a new wallet. :-D
Quote from: webny99 on August 06, 2020, 11:40:08 PM
I'll contribute. I won't notice the difference between 3 and 4 bills in my wallet.
Are you guys missing the point? I don't
desire a new wallet. Paying with an aim to avoid extra bills as change does not inconvenience me one bit–only, apparently,
Scott5114.
Quote from: kphoger on August 07, 2020, 09:12:43 AM
Are you guys missing the point? I don't desire a new wallet. Paying with an aim to avoid extra bills as change does not inconvenience me one bit
The point is that it's probably time for a new wallet, whether you're inconvenienced or not.
Quote from: webny99 on August 07, 2020, 10:00:36 AM
The point is that it's probably time for a new wallet, whether you're inconvenienced or not.
Why? The one I have works just fine, so why would it be time for a new one?
I don't get it.
Quote from: kphoger on August 06, 2020, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 03:16:39 PM
I do have trouble closing my wallet at fewer than 30 bills. And more than just a few makes it bulky enough for me to notice when sitting down.
(I found the wallet in a trash can at work nearly twenty years ago.)
Quote from: kphoger on August 07, 2020, 10:21:20 AM
The one I have works just fine, so why would it be time for a new one?
Quote from: kphoger on August 07, 2020, 10:21:20 AM
I don't get it.
Me either.
Quote from: webny99 on August 07, 2020, 11:11:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on August 07, 2020, 10:21:20 AM
I don't get it.
Me either.
↓ ↓ See below. ↓ ↓
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 01:52:22 PM
Other than usually keeping a couple of dollars in my wallet to cover bus fare in case my car breaks down, I have little use for cash; I typically carry two bucks. (For the record, I just checked my wallet after typing that, and I indeed have two dollars in my wallet at this very moment.)
Quote from: kphoger on August 07, 2020, 11:24:01 AM
Quote from: webny99 on August 07, 2020, 11:11:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on August 07, 2020, 10:21:20 AM
I don't get it.
Me either.
↓ ↓ See below. ↓ ↓
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 01:52:22 PM
Other than usually keeping a couple of dollars in my wallet to cover bus fare in case my car breaks down, I have little use for cash; I typically carry two bucks. (For the record, I just checked my wallet after typing that, and I indeed have two dollars in my wallet at this very moment.)
Johnny will be coming by shortly for your two dollars...
My first calculator was the original TI-83(?) with the LED digits, but my first take-no-prisoners calculator was the HP-41CV. I fell in love with that thing and probably gave my thumbs muscles in programming it. Eventually I acquired the Extended Memory Module, Extended Functions Module, IR printer module and the Magnetic Card Reader (I so badly wanted the Cassette and Disk Drive). I used it extensively until I decided to upgrade to a new calculator, so I gifted the entire package to my cousin who was attending FAMU; who either 1) sold it or 2) broke it. (It's one of those things that even 30 years later, she literally will not tell me what happened to it, and I'm going 'Look, I'm not butthurt, but this don't make no sense!').
Then I purchased an HP-48SX (which I still have) along with two 128K RAM cards and the IR printer. I have no idea where my printer disappeared to (and I still had a box of thermal printer paper) and I lost one of my RAM cards through my stupidity (I left it too close to a table and one of my little cousins knocked the calculator onto the hard floor and one of the cards immediately died with a broken connector).
Now I have a HP-50g plastic fantastic from China with a 2GB SD card installed...it works, but I don't have the mindset to start programming it despite me having all the software downloaded to do it. I spend more time either using my phone calculator or my HP-48.
I lusted for an HP-71, but I couldn't get one because the business I bought my HP-41 from didn't want to deal with anything HP anymore and got out of selling their calculators.
Besides RPN, the great thing with HP calculator is that it guaranteed the "Hey, can I borrow your calculator?" crowd would go away, they'd go "Damn, it's an HP..." and I would smile.
HP abandoning RPN killed it for me, it was the only differentiator that could be used effectively if you knew your way around an HP.
Quote from: DeaconG on August 11, 2020, 10:01:27 PM
HP abandoning RPN killed it for me, it was the only differentiator that could be used effectively if you knew your way around an HP.
They don't do RPN anymore?? I can't imagine going back at this point. I have two HP 48GXs - one at work, and one I keep at home because it's too much of a hassle going back to a regular one. I think one of them is almost 25 years old and I'll do anything to keep them running. At one point our office started getting newer HPs and I hated the keys. Half the time it wouldn't seem to register a button press, unlike the 48s which have more of a substantial typewriter style key press than the newer flatter ones.
I even found a 48GX app for the Iphone that recreates it exactly.
Otherwise, I don't use it for anything complex. Just basic calculations - It's really just for the RPN now...
Most HP calculators now are a hybrid... you can use them as RPN or with algebraic entry. I'm not sure how well it works as I haven't had one of those.