AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: Regnaur on August 03, 2020, 07:49:08 AM

Title: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: Regnaur on August 03, 2020, 07:49:08 AM
This stop sign (https://goo.gl/maps/4X6xxRFghvb8PUGj8) exists in the Port of Long Beach, CA. Huh?
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 03, 2020, 08:14:25 AM
Followed by a "Keep Here"  way behind the tracks.
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on August 04, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
Now I'm curious what the most tracks crossed at one crossing are (this one is 8).
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: 1995hoo on August 04, 2020, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 04, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
Now I'm curious what the most tracks crossed at one crossing are (this one is 8).

The most I know of is 10 in Sanford, Florida: https://goo.gl/maps/4gRz1nwiG6jsU7Vp9  (I've passed that sign many times, but I've never crossed all ten tracks because I always make the right turn up ahead into the train station. Never had any reason to go the other way.)

I think we've had the "most tracks at a crossing" discussion before because I'm certain I remember discussing that location.
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: sprjus4 on August 04, 2020, 02:25:45 PM
Here's another 8 track (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7854062,-76.2715143,3a,75y,110.94h,93.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNNSFtDjxrM8gfy_hTaOO_g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) one along Portlock Rd in Chesapeake, VA.
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 02:33:12 PM
Wichita has a 14-track crossing.  I can't remember off the top of my head if any bigger one has been mentioned in previous discussions.
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 02:47:05 PM
OK, I found the old thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10687.msg253977#msg253977), and it looks like nobody could come up with a current location that beats 14 tracks.  Historical examples, yes, but none current.
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: skquinn on August 05, 2020, 07:35:06 AM
Quote from: Regnaur on August 03, 2020, 07:49:08 AM
This stop sign (https://goo.gl/maps/4X6xxRFghvb8PUGj8) exists in the Port of Long Beach, CA. Huh?

This is crazy. In order to stop for the stop sign, you have to stop on railroad tracks at least briefly. Who comes up with these things?
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: mrsman on August 06, 2020, 08:11:25 AM
Quote from: skquinn on August 05, 2020, 07:35:06 AM
Quote from: Regnaur on August 03, 2020, 07:49:08 AM
This stop sign (https://goo.gl/maps/4X6xxRFghvb8PUGj8) exists in the Port of Long Beach, CA. Huh?

This is crazy. In order to stop for the stop sign, you have to stop on railroad tracks at least briefly. Who comes up with these things?

I guess this could be made safer with a signalized crossing, stopping before the tracks.  But there doesn't seem to be a way to put a stop sign behind the tracks because then, you'd be too far to see cross traffic.  So if a signal were warranted, it can be placed behind the tracks.
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: kphoger on August 06, 2020, 03:38:51 PM
More from the rail yard in Wichita...

Stop sign on a 7-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/SXu4FjAWo8jdrqza8)

Stop sign on a 3-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/2WWyfGQVLjHTeonN9)
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: mrsman on August 06, 2020, 05:23:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 06, 2020, 03:38:51 PM
More from the rail yard in Wichita...

Stop sign on a 7-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/SXu4FjAWo8jdrqza8)

Stop sign on a 3-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/2WWyfGQVLjHTeonN9)

Is there any way to address the safety of this without signalizing the intersection?
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: Brian556 on August 07, 2020, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: mrsman on August 06, 2020, 05:23:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 06, 2020, 03:38:51 PM
More from the rail yard in Wichita...

Stop sign on a 7-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/SXu4FjAWo8jdrqza8)

Since this intersection is an all-way stop, drivers should easily go out of turn in order to clear the tracks. There are tons of examples of this situation where the intersection is not an all-way stop, which is really dangerous.

Stop sign on a 3-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/2WWyfGQVLjHTeonN9)

Is there any way to address the safety of this without signalizing the intersection?

Since this intersection is an all-way stop, drivers should easily go out of turn in order to clear the tracks. There are tons of examples of this situation where the intersection is not an all-way stop, which is really dangerous.

Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: kphoger on August 07, 2020, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: Brian556 on August 07, 2020, 12:52:17 PM

Quote from: mrsman on August 06, 2020, 05:23:09 PM

Quote from: kphoger on August 06, 2020, 03:38:51 PM
More from the rail yard in Wichita...

Stop sign on a 7-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/SXu4FjAWo8jdrqza8)

Stop sign on a 3-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/2WWyfGQVLjHTeonN9)

Is there any way to address the safety of this without signalizing the intersection?

Since this intersection is an all-way stop, drivers should easily go out of turn in order to clear the tracks. There are tons of examples of this situation where the intersection is not an all-way stop, which is really dangerous.

What intersection is an all-way stop?  None of the ones you quoted are all-way stops.
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: Brian556 on August 07, 2020, 01:09:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 07, 2020, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: Brian556 on August 07, 2020, 12:52:17 PM

Quote from: mrsman on August 06, 2020, 05:23:09 PM

Quote from: kphoger on August 06, 2020, 03:38:51 PM
More from the rail yard in Wichita...

Stop sign on a 7-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/SXu4FjAWo8jdrqza8)

Stop sign on a 3-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/2WWyfGQVLjHTeonN9)

Is there any way to address the safety of this without signalizing the intersection?

Since this intersection is an all-way stop, drivers should easily go out of turn in order to clear the tracks. There are tons of examples of this situation where the intersection is not an all-way stop, which is really dangerous.

What intersection is an all-way stop?  None of the ones you quoted are all-way stops.

This one (but they forgot to install all-way plaques)
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7747187,-118.2389926,3a,75y,270.51h,89.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU1U0AiMhitQnlZheUhKc-A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7747187,-118.2389926,3a,75y,270.51h,89.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU1U0AiMhitQnlZheUhKc-A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: Jet380 on August 08, 2020, 02:18:43 AM
Quote from: mrsman on August 06, 2020, 05:23:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 06, 2020, 03:38:51 PM
More from the rail yard in Wichita...

Stop sign on a 7-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/SXu4FjAWo8jdrqza8)

Stop sign on a 3-track crossing (https://goo.gl/maps/2WWyfGQVLjHTeonN9)

Is there any way to address the safety of this without signalizing the intersection?

One option would be to have stop signs on all approaches except for the railway crossing, as is sometimes done at entries to car parks. That will allow free-flowing movement off the crossing, but it could cause its own safety issues.

Alternatively you could ban all movements from the crossing except a right turn, to at least reduce the time drivers spend waiting on the tracks.

Otherwise you would be looking at wholesale changes to the road layout, to reassign priority or to create extra queuing space between the crossing and the intersection. But by this point, full signalisation would be cheap by comparison!

For the Long Beach example at least, the crossing is at the entry to the port terminal and I would assume all rail movements would be done slowly and under supervision. So, in practice, there should be ample time for a vehicle to clear the crossing before the train arrives.
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: kphoger on August 11, 2020, 12:42:47 PM
The Wichita examples I posted are in or near the freight yard, which is directly parallel to Broadway (old US-81).  Putting stop signs on Broadway would definitely NOT be a solution here.
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: thenetwork on August 15, 2020, 11:29:02 AM
There used to be a huge multi-track crossing on Westwood Avenue in Toledo OH.  Sometime in the last few decades, they closed the street off from either side the:

Toledo
Ohio
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KxCdgz6ThwEpoeBu9
Title: Re: A Stop Sign on Railroad Tracks
Post by: kphoger on August 18, 2020, 02:02:30 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 15, 2020, 11:29:02 AM
There used to be a huge multi-track crossing on Westwood Avenue in Toledo OH.  Sometime in the last few decades, they closed the street off from either side the:

Toledo
Ohio
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KxCdgz6ThwEpoeBu9

Link just goes to a map of the entire city of Toledo.