How many instances can you think of that any numbered highway with a cardinal direction posted with it turns, veers or loops back around to where the traffic is now not facing that cardinal direction and then intersects another highway with the same situation happening. Confused? Highway A is a north-south route, and the highway has a bend in it so that northbound traffic his now heading east for a bit. It then intersects Highway B, which is an east-west highway that earlier also had a bend so that westbound traffic in now facing north. so to turn from North Highway A to West Highway B, the traveler will in reality turn from facing east to facing north. It doesn't have to be a 90 revolution, it could be a situation where northbound traffic is now facing southbound.
In Santa Fe, I-25 and US 84 have an intersection. US 84 is obviously an east-west route, but leaving I-25, US 84 is almost a directly north-south routing, and I-25 at this point is heading east-west. Then shortly after that I-25 bends again and the northbound direction is actually facing south.
I guess backward concurrencies would also count.
If I am properly understanding the question...
Dan Ryan (I-90/94) at Stevenson (I-55) Expressways in Chicago
I-55 is much more E-W and I-90/94 is much more N-S at their junction
In Beloit, WI, near the Illinois border, I-43 begins at I-90; at that point, I-90 runs north-south, while I-43 takes off heading northeast toward Milwaukee - albeit more east than north.
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 07, 2020, 05:51:43 PM
If I am properly understanding the question...
Dan Ryan (I-90/94) at Stevenson (I-55) Expressways in Chicago
I-55 is much more E-W and I-90/94 is much more N-S at their junction
Much more? I-90/I-94 in that area is the most north-south highway in the system.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 07, 2020, 05:54:03 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 07, 2020, 05:51:43 PM
If I am properly understanding the question...
Dan Ryan (I-90/94) at Stevenson (I-55) Expressways in Chicago
I-55 is much more E-W and I-90/94 is much more N-S at their junction
Much more? I-90/I-94 in that area is the most north-south highway in the system.
Lake Shore Drive/US 41 is at least signed North-South. Granted, it is not Freeway the whole way and also has Truck Restrictions, and its only direct connection to the Interstate system is I-55
I figured this out as a kid years ago, but it makes perfect sense why Traffic Reports refer to the Chicago Radial Expressway route directions as "Inbound" and "Outbound" due to the mental gymnastics one has to do, with E-W signed routes going N-S and N-S signed routes going E-W
At least I-55's immediate predecessor, US 66, was signed E-W.
I will not call for a fictional renumbering in this thread
US 285, signed north-south, runs mostly east-west from Kenosha Pass to its terminus at I-25 in Denver. In Morrison, US 285 has two consecutive interchanges that meet this criteria: CO-8 (US 285's old routing) and C-470 (the southwestern bypass of Denver), both of which are signed east-west and run north-south where they connect to US 285.
There are many examples of this in Upstate South Carolina:
I-85 and I-26
I-26 and US 29
I-85 and SC 14
I-85 and SC 20
I-26 and SC 11
And no doubt many more...
Technicality?:
I-5 at OR 99/140
I-5 is turning from a NW (nb)/SE (sb) angle to W/E, and OR 99 is doing the same at the interchange. OR 140, meanwhile, is an E/W route that continues from the interchange in a NW direction before doing a hard turn to the east at Bear Creek.
To make it even more confusing, OR 140 isn't yet signed from I-5 or at the interchange as it's a recent extension from OR 62.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/42.4053/-122.9480
Related: OR 62, an E/W route that essentially runs N/S then S/N over its route -- which gives the bonus of starting its N/S reversal at OR 230, which itself is an E/W route running almost due north from OR 62
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/42.9202/-122.4127
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 07, 2020, 06:00:47 PM
Lake Shore Drive/US 41 is at least signed North-South.
Yes, but US 41 runs east-west on Foster, where it intersects the east terminus of US 14, which goes north-south at that point. Both highways are "rotated" 90 degrees, but one is clockwise and one is counterclockwise.
If I'm reading the OP right, then the New York examples should work:
I-90 (signed E/W, running N/S) at I-190 (signed N/S, running E/W) in Cheektowaga: https://goo.gl/maps/aS3T4MLnqeE71jNG8 (Well, this is more of a partial example, but whatever.)
US 20 (signed E/W, running N/S) at both NY 16 and NY 400 (both signed N/S, running E/W) in West Seneca: https://goo.gl/maps/A37MJhkaoLNZT9wq6
I-86 (signed E/W, running N/S) at NY 54 (signed N/S, running E/W) in Bath: https://goo.gl/maps/KqSd79HfZb8JSE8K9
I-86 (signed E/W, running N/S) at NY 226 (signed N/S, running E/W) in Savona: https://goo.gl/maps/TFUwCuzCqnqVMnXB7
I-490 (signed E/W, running N/S) at NY 96 (signed N/S, running E/W) in Perinton: https://goo.gl/maps/EcXxQEKsQEN5P9VXA
Below are "compass breaker" intersections where (for example) you are facing north, and east is to the left instead of to the right.
On I-95 NB in Groton, CT, you go left to get onto CT 184 EB -- and these roads stay apart for another 15 miles. In other words, 184 east is more "northy" than 95 north.
In South Windsor, CT 30 NB and CT 74 EB used to do the same thing. In Manchester, CT 30 still does so with I-84.
US 1 "north/south" going east/west in CT could have a lot of these with the small loops roads, but the state tends to mark 215, 213, 146, etc. at these intersections with no directional banner.
There is a "south straight, west to the left" situation at US 1 / CT 142 in Branford.
At US 1 SB / CT 162 WB in Orange, ConnDOT avoids the situation by just marking 162 (incorrectly) as EB: https://goo.gl/maps/xKvy3pfzf5YAy2EU9
CT 130 EB goes north of US 1 NB and I-95 NB in sections.
Since backward concurrencies count...
I-77 and I-81 have a backwards concurrency in Wytheville, VA
US-321 and US-441 are backwards in Sevier County, TN between Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg
Quote from: kurumi on August 08, 2020, 01:45:19 AM
Below are "compass breaker" intersections where (for example) you are facing north, and east is to the left instead of to the right.
On I-95 NB in Groton, CT, you go left to get onto CT 184 EB -- and these roads stay apart for another 15 miles. In other words, 184 east is more "northy" than 95 north.
In South Windsor, CT 30 NB and CT 74 EB used to do the same thing. In Manchester, CT 30 still does so with I-84.
US 1 "north/south" going east/west in CT could have a lot of these with the small loops roads, but the state tends to mark 215, 213, 146, etc. at these intersections with no directional banner.
There is a "south straight, west to the left" situation at US 1 / CT 142 in Branford.
At US 1 SB / CT 162 WB in Orange, ConnDOT avoids the situation by just marking 162 (incorrectly) as EB: https://goo.gl/maps/xKvy3pfzf5YAy2EU9
CT 130 EB goes north of US 1 NB and I-95 NB in sections.
US 1 and ME 9 also does that for one of its several intersections.
Where I-295 meets I-76 in NJ, 295 is extremely East-West at that point; I-76 is almost perfectly North/South.
Here in State College we have a mess like this. US Route 322 and PA Route 26 used to be the main routes through town, but 322 was bypassed in the 1980s. So US 322 Business is signed east-west, like the parent highway, but "west" is North Atherton St and "east" is South Atherton St. Likewise, PA 26 is signed north-south, but "north" is East College Ave and "south" is West College Ave. Their intersection downtown therefore meets the requirements somewhat (it's a 45 degree angle).
But the best part is that ever since I-99 came to town, it's been concurrent with US 322 (a true east-west freeway at this point) along the north part of town, before curving south. So getting from downtown to the highway entails heading to northern State College on North Atherton Street aka US 322 Business West, which leads directly into I-99 South. All the directions are messed up... doesn't help that PA 45, running parallel to PA 26, IS signed east-west in the way people here think of direction.
US 12/20/45 at IL Route 171 in Willow Springs perhaps? Route 171 runs more ENE-WSW but is signed N-S. US 12/20 runs N-S but is signed E-W.
US 30 and US 89 in Montpelier, Idaho. Both routes are fully perpendicular to their expected orientations: eastbound US 30 is south, and northbound US 89 is east aside from a 2-block overlap on US 30.
This is a bit of a twist: How about the Eastern (Northern) terminus of I-44? I-44 East becomes I-70 West, while in a N-S orientation in Downtown St Louis
I-44 East with a control of Kansas City in Downtown St Louis is funny, almost bad
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 09, 2020, 01:56:20 AM
This is a bit of a twist: How about the Eastern (Northern) terminus of I-44? I-44 East becomes I-70 West, while in a N-S orientation in Downtown St Louis
I-44 East with a control of Kansas City in Downtown St Louis is funny, almost bad
And the western terminus of I-44 with I-44 west feeding SE into South US-287, and North US-287 heads due west out of the interchange.
Quote from: kurumi on August 08, 2020, 01:45:19 AM
Below are "compass breaker" intersections where (for example) you are facing north, and east is to the left instead of to the right.
(snip)
At the recently-reconfigured meeting of I-95, I-276/PA Turnpike and (now) I-295, I-95 North heads almost due east from the interchange while I-295 East heads NNE. (I-95 South and I-276 make sense.)
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 09, 2020, 01:56:20 AM
This is a bit of a twist: How about the Eastern (Northern) terminus of I-44? I-44 East becomes I-70 West, while in a N-S orientation in Downtown St Louis
I-44 East with a control of Kansas City in Downtown St Louis is funny, almost bad
KC could easily be shifted to 64 to replace the Wentzville control city (an oddly local one since everything else is Tulsa, Memphis, Chicago, etc.) and the 44 east (former 70 east) could be shifted to "Airport" or even "St Charles."
Quote from: STLmapboy on August 09, 2020, 06:17:17 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 09, 2020, 01:56:20 AM
This is a bit of a twist: How about the Eastern (Northern) terminus of I-44? I-44 East becomes I-70 West, while in a N-S orientation in Downtown St Louis
I-44 East with a control of Kansas City in Downtown St Louis is funny, almost bad
KC could easily be shifted to 64 to replace the Wentzville control city (an oddly local one since everything else is Tulsa, Memphis, Chicago, etc.) and the 44 east (former 70 east) could be shifted to "Airport" or even "St Charles."
44 East north of the PSB is former 70
West not East. I understand why 44 was used when the Stan Span opened and 70 was routed over the new bridge – 44 was sitting there available to be extended further north. Just makes it a bit awkward that 44 East becomes 70 West. The BGSs do sign 44 East To 70 West: Kansas City
I prefer Minneapolis for the I-64 West control after entering St Louis on the PSB – let MoDOT acknowledge the existence of the AotS
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 09, 2020, 01:56:20 AM
44 East north of the PSB is former 70 West not East. I understand why 44 was used when the Stan Span opened and 70 was routed over the new bridge – 44 was sitting there available to be extended further north. Just makes it a bit awkward that 44 East becomes 70 West.
Personally, if I were MoDOT, I would have had the former section of I-70 designated as I-570 or I-164 - neither of those exist in Missouri yet.
2 cases in Iowa, that I have figured out:
1. I-74 and US 67 in Bettendorf
2. IA 14 and US 18 on the west edge of Charles City.
I-81/US 22 interchange north of Harrisburg, PA. I-81 (signed North-South) goes E-W and US 22 (signed East-West) goes N-S through the interchange.
VA 164/VA 141 interchange in Portsmouth, VA. VA 164 (E-W) is N-S through the interchange and VA 141 (N-S) departs the interchange to the east.
US 11/NY 276 intersection in Champlain, NY. US 11 (N-S) goes E-W through the intersection and NY 276 (E-W) leaves the intersection to the north.
Here's an oddity.
At the Bowers Hill Interchange (I-64 / I-264 / I-664) at the eastern terminus of I-64 in Chesapeake, VA, both I-64 and I-264 head eastward out of the interchange both towards Virginia Beach, with I-264 taking a central direct path through Downtown Norfolk and Portsmouth, with I-64 bypassing the area to the south, though I-64 is signed as "West" whereas I-264 is signed as "East" heading towards Va Beach despite both heading east.
The reason for this is ultimately because I-64 turns back westward in Virginia Beach towards the HRBT, the Peninsula, and onto Richmond and west, whereas I-264 is heading due east without any 180s.
Quote from: Crown Victoria on August 07, 2020, 08:42:30 PM
There are many examples of this in Upstate South Carolina:
I-85 and I-26
I-26 and US 29
I-85 and SC 14
I-85 and SC 20
I-26 and SC 11
And no doubt many more...
Two others I can think of involving I-26:
I-26 & I-77
I-26 & US 17
(Makes sense there'd be a lot of I-26 examples, being the diagonal route it is)
I-17 and I-10 do this east of downtown Phoenix, where I-17 north runs west from the interchange, and I-10 west continues north towards the airport. At least when they meet again a few miles later, they are in their correct positions.
I-40 in eastern NC has three examples of this, given its north-south positioning: at I-85, Future I-87 and I-95. In all three cases, their northbound directions actually run eastbound, and southbound actually goes westbound.
If future and cancelled routes count, then in addition to I-40/I-87, I also cite two once-planned I-95 junctions in Baltimore. From the southern I-695 junction until it reaches the Fort McHenry toll plaza, I-95 runs in an east-west fashion; where I-70 was to meet I-95, it would've gone north-south, with westbound actually heading north. At another cancelled I-95 exit, I-83 would've ended there while running east-west, with northbound actually going west; I-95 northbound turns east almost immediately after passing through it. In New Orleans, I-10/Future I-49 is another example, where I-10 eastbound turns north and I-49 will start out going east before quickly turning south and then west, all while carrying the northbound direction, similar to the I-64 situation.
Quote from: Henry on August 10, 2020, 10:21:42 AM
I-17 and I-10 do this east of downtown Phoenix, where I-17 north runs west from the interchange, and I-10 west continues north towards the airport. At least when they meet again a few miles later, they are in their correct positions.
I-40 in eastern NC has three examples of this, given its north-south positioning: at I-85, Future I-87 and I-95. In all three cases, their northbound directions actually run eastbound, and southbound actually goes westbound.
If future and cancelled routes count, then in addition to I-40/I-87, I also cite two once-planned I-95 junctions in Baltimore. From the southern I-695 junction until it reaches the Fort McHenry toll plaza, I-95 runs in an east-west fashion; where I-70 was to meet I-95, it would've gone north-south, with westbound actually heading north. At another cancelled I-95 exit, I-83 would've ended there while running east-west, with northbound actually going west; I-95 northbound turns east almost immediately after passing through it. In New Orleans, I-10/Future I-49 is another example, where I-10 eastbound turns north and I-49 will start out going east before quickly turning south and then west, all while carrying the northbound direction, similar to the I-64 situation.
Hahaha! I have thought about that one a lot. I-49 will start at its "southern" terminus actually heading southeast, while the intent of that leg is to head west/northwest, but the cardinal direction will read NORTH! Not confusing. You head on eastbound I-10, while actually heading south to merge onto northbound I-49 while sill heading south!!
Another Hampton Roads example: VA 337 (Hampton Blvd)/VA 165 (Little Creek Road). VA 337 (E-W) goes N-S through the intersection while VA 165 (N-S) heads east from the intersection.
I-65 and I-24's southern split, I-65 heads west and I-24 exits to the south.
Quote from: amroad17 on August 10, 2020, 10:12:51 PM
Another Hampton Roads example: VA 337 (Hampton Blvd)/VA 165 (Little Creek Road). VA 337 (E-W) goes N-S through the intersection while VA 165 (N-S) heads east from the intersection.
VA-165 is just a convoluted route in general.
The one I found in Minnesota is the east end of MN 19 in Red Wing. MN 19 is going north into US 61, which is basically an east-west route there.
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 11, 2020, 12:27:51 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on August 10, 2020, 10:12:51 PM
Another Hampton Roads example: VA 337 (Hampton Blvd)/VA 165 (Little Creek Road). VA 337 (E-W) goes N-S through the intersection while VA 165 (N-S) heads east from the intersection.
VA-165 is just a convoluted route in general.
Yes, not a route one would drive from "end to end" (
Froggie/
Mapmikey said that in the comments section of the VA 165 description). VA 165 should be routed from Princess Anne CH to Hampton Blvd and VA 149 should cover VA 165's routing from Princess Anne CH to Deep Creek.
Quote from: DandyDan on August 12, 2020, 01:28:54 AM
The one I found in Minnesota is the east end of MN 19 in Red Wing. MN 19 is going north into US 61, which is basically an east-west route there.
Yeah, that's about it. I had found that one but got too busy to post it.
One that might possibly pop up in some local parlance is MN 1/MN 61. MN 1 more or less travels N-S from Ely to 61 while signed E-W, and 61 travels WSW-ENE. I read one source saying locals along the North Shore refer to 61 as east/west even though it's not signed that way, but I have never once heard that used in practice in any of my considerable time spent here.
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 07, 2020, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 07, 2020, 05:54:03 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 07, 2020, 05:51:43 PM
If I am properly understanding the question...
Dan Ryan (I-90/94) at Stevenson (I-55) Expressways in Chicago
I-55 is much more E-W and I-90/94 is much more N-S at their junction
Much more? I-90/I-94 in that area is the most north-south highway in the system.
Lake Shore Drive/US 41 is at least signed North-South. Granted, it is not Freeway the whole way and also has Truck Restrictions, and its only direct connection to the Interstate system is I-55
I figured this out as a kid years ago, but it makes perfect sense why Traffic Reports refer to the Chicago Radial Expressway route directions as "Inbound" and "Outbound" due to the mental gymnastics one has to do, with E-W signed routes going N-S and N-S signed routes going E-W
At least I-55's immediate predecessor, US 66, was signed E-W.
I will not call for a fictional renumbering in this thread
I don't think it should be renumbered just because Lake Michigan is in the way and that is part of the route that is being routed around the lake. If it went straight east from Milwaukee it would, A) Miss Chicago completely and B) Probably use I-96's routing in Michigan. I-94 at least corrects itself in both directions.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 16, 2020, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on August 12, 2020, 01:28:54 AM
The one I found in Minnesota is the east end of MN 19 in Red Wing. MN 19 is going north into US 61, which is basically an east-west route there.
Yeah, that's about it. I had found that one but got too busy to post it.
What about the US 61/US 63 situation in Red Wing? That always struck me as odd the way US 63 does a U-turn off the bridge to meet US 61. (I'm not sure if that technically qualifies for this thread, but it was the very first thing that came to mind when I saw the title.)
Quote from: webny99 on August 18, 2020, 06:44:12 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 16, 2020, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on August 12, 2020, 01:28:54 AM
The one I found in Minnesota is the east end of MN 19 in Red Wing. MN 19 is going north into US 61, which is basically an east-west route there.
Yeah, that’s about it. I had found that one but got too busy to post it.
What about the US 61/US 63 situation in Red Wing? That always struck me as odd the way US 63 does a U-turn off the bridge to meet US 61. (I'm not sure if that technically qualifies for this thread, but it was the very first thing that came to mind when I saw the title.)
That's pretty common at locations immediately adjacent to a rail line - in this case there isn't room for US 63 to get down from the river/rail bridge and intersect US 61 at grade (and that big hill to the east probably doesn't help matters, either). Here's a similar example with BL-80 and WYO 530 in Green River, WY (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5249754,-109.4623435,16z).
US 175 and FM-1895 in Kemp TX. US-175 is signed as east-west while facing nearly north-south, and FM-1895 is north-south but is facing nearly east-west.
Overhead view:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.4460954,-96.2218262,17.25z
Signage facing FM-1895 "north":
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.4456055,-96.2224312,3a,45.2y,74.52h,95.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP-xkM5OS7RZkaVNioEN7mg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: Henry on August 10, 2020, 10:21:42 AM
I-40 in eastern NC has three examples of this, given its north-south positioning: at I-85, Future I-87 and I-95. In all three cases, their northbound directions actually run eastbound, and southbound actually goes westbound.
Even stranger is the fact that both I-85 and I-40 are approaching from the southeast (and south-southeast, respectively). I-85 was originally routed around the north side of Hillsborough (hence the remaining portion of the old section I-85 connecting to US-70 eastbound). I believe that this topic was also discussed in both MTR and AARoads in the past. It is now ironic that some 70-odd years after preventing the construction of four-lane bridges over the Eno River, the recent emergency closure of the eastern bridge for US-70 has allowed NCDOT to open up a right-of-way of sufficient width to support a new multilane route to Durham sometime in the future.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 07, 2020, 05:12:05 PM
How many instances can you think of that any numbered highway with a cardinal direction posted with it turns, veers or loops back around to where the traffic is now not facing that cardinal direction and then intersects another highway with the same situation happening. Confused? (etc.)
I started
another thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2008.50) on this topic about 10 years ago. It's funny how we both had to use an abundance of words to introduce the topic and describe the type of configuration we had in mind. Not an easily-searchable topic.