It's not the first time this has happened to me, but I did get a little amusing kick out of reading this document from NYSDOT:
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/engineering/technical-services/hds-respository/2019_HiDaC_07_-_Route_Numbering_Route_Signing.pdf
First thing I noticed was the distinct familiarity of their example county route shield on page 3...followed by the even bigger kick of finding my own site used as a source on page 15! (This is the part that has happened before; I once "caught" them lifting entire sections of text from my site in a publication on reference markers, my site of course being an almost direct paraphrasing of their hard-copy Reference Marker Manual from the 90s.)
I was also amused to find that this presentation notes some of the most common signing errors in NYS (wrong shape shield, reference route signed as touring route), along with the caution that road enthusiasts will take note. :-) It made me wonder whether perhaps anyone here in this community may have had a hand in its preparation...
Finally, I learned a thing or two myself–it turns out that none of NY's business routes, save US 62 BUS, is actually recognized. Others like NY 52 BUS and US 219 BUS are locally-designated, if not downright illegitimate.
When the Oklahoma route shield was changed in 2006, but before the official specs came out, I made a stab at drawing them up for Wikipedia. It wasn't great; I was 16 and eyeballing it without measuring from the example ODOT gave and photos of, like, three shields. But it got the job done, and my attempt was later replaced by NE2's far, far more accurate outline (which I helped promulgate across the site).
Later on, I was up in Tulsa, and ran across some OK-67 shields that some contractor had apparently produced by Googling "Oklahoma State Highway 67", getting my shield off Wikipedia, and printing it up.
The former (now retired) head of the Main Office Highway Data Services Bureau was definitely aware of the roadgeek websites; he was the one who gave the presentation. He always had a ton of interesting facts and stories to include and his presence at the (still?) annual NYSDOT Highway Data Services Workshop/Conference will be missed. My website is known to him as well. Whenever he mentioned roadgeeks he liked to say "at least some of whom are in the audience" because of it (I attended every single one of those conferences from when I started through the most recent one held the same week as HiDaC last year).
Did roadgeeks tend to come up as more of a helpful presence, more of a cautionary "just so you know people do notice", or as more of a nuisance?
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 09, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
Did roadgeeks tend to come up as more of a helpful presence, more of a cautionary "just so you know people do notice", or as more of a nuisance?
I kind of feel it's a mix of the first and third. While I never to my knowledge been in any DOT materials I know Daniel from CAhighways has. Granted in his case the materials on his site are based off documented legislative history which can be useful sometimes for DOT members. The closest I ever got was being asked to a couple County tourism boards promote a highway (CA 49) or had some of my articles featured by local community historical groups (the Pigeon Key Museum with FL 4A and the San Juan Grade of US 101 with the San Juan Bautista Historical Society). The impression I've largely gotten from most of the DOT World is that it is more "just work" and enthusiasm for travel or historical context can be sparse.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2020, 02:23:18 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 09, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
Did roadgeeks tend to come up as more of a helpful presence, more of a cautionary "just so you know people do notice", or as more of a nuisance?
I kind of feel it's a mix of the first and third. While I never to my knowledge been in any DOT materials I know Daniel from CAhighways has. Granted in his case the materials on his site are based off documented legislative history which can be useful sometimes for DOT members. The closest I ever got was being asked to a couple County tourism boards promote a highway (CA 49) or had some of my articles featured by local community historical groups (the Pigeon Key Museum with FL 4A and the San Juan Grade of US 101 with the San Juan Bautista Historical Society). The impression I've largely gotten from most of the DOT World is that it is more "just work" and enthusiasm for travel or historical context can be sparse.
Agreed on all of the above. You have a few like Sir Alps who is basically all into it 24/7, but for the grand majority they show up at 8, leave at 4, and dont give another thought about it. If they pass by an issue on the road, it's not their job to report it, and they don't.
As for meetings, it depends on the meeting and the people involved. I've been at meetings where the presenter or contractor talks like he's selling solar panels and just says what others want to hear. Others actually take notice that someone knows what were talking about and makes some effort to get some insight. And then there's some meetings where many of the DOT people there are there because they're told to be there, and don't know much about the project themselves.
There's a fine line too. Generally, officials at the meeting aren't going to be overly impressed if you ask about why the W14-1a is being used rather than the W14-2...because they don't know either.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 09, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
Did roadgeeks tend to come up as more of a helpful presence, more of a cautionary "just so you know people do notice", or as more of a nuisance?
I always liked to think my old site was a helpful presence for NYSDOT. When I interviewed with them in the mid 2000s they were well aware of my site and appreciative of the content. I've had one NYSDOT region advise they referred to my website for milepost information on the interchange locations of the interstates in their region.
When I tempered back the tone of my emails and other submissions to NYSDOT (from the very early days where I'd be like "How can you make this mistake?" to "I found an error on a guide sign" ) they were much more appreciative of the input. I know we had a spirited discussion regarding control cities being listed on guide signs approaching the Thruway and once I calmed down a little bit they discussed it an now they're much more prevalent throughout the state.
I'm curious as to when they fully go to distance based exit numbering, if the discussions we had about the proper mileage of Interstate 87 will make an impact as to what exit numbers end up on the Northway.
With NYSDOT, there's a big gap between the Highway Data Services Bureau, Regional project development and the actual bulldozers on the ground. All Regions care about are the layers in ArcGIS that provide the information for IPPs and then design approval documents.
I'd also argue in my personal experience that road enthusiasm varies greatly even in the MO and within the HDS bureau. The retired director was an anomaly when it came to being interested in the history of NY roads, not the rule. Most NYSDOT employees just care about the here and now and go by the reference markers and milepoints that are currently in the system, whether they are right on the nose or not.
(personal opinion emphasized)
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 09, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
Did roadgeeks tend to come up as more of a helpful presence, more of a cautionary "just so you know people do notice", or as more of a nuisance?
At least one time the road enthusiast websites were mentioned as a "non-traditional resource" is a presentation on where to find information.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 09, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
Did roadgeeks tend to come up as more of a helpful presence, more of a cautionary "just so you know people do notice", or as more of a nuisance?
I was told many years ago, not long after I started my job, that I was a valuable resource on signage information and should be utilized more often regarding it. So DOTs are well-aware of the roadgeek community. And I had several people, upon meeting them for the first time, remark that they knew I operated a website dedicated to roads and was active on MTR.
There have been several instances back when I had an old iteration of my site running that I would post a sign error, and shortly thereafter it was fixed. I doubt that was coincidental, being that the errors had existed for a long time prior to me getting into sign photography.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 09, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
Did roadgeeks tend to come up as more of a helpful presence, more of a cautionary "just so you know people do notice", or as more of a nuisance?
Well, in my case it's always seemed to be the first. The fact that NYSDOT is using my information for its own purposes and of its own volition suggests that it's a helpful resource for them. The only thing I feel cautious about is that the information I have is almost always originally from NYSDOT itself (or another official agency)–so we do get a chicken-and-egg feedback loop of who exactly is the teacher, and who the student? :-)
I appeared in a picture on a WisDOT document about a public information meeting concerning one of the Milwaukee-area freeway rebuilds about a decade ago. Just one of several people looking at tables of maps in an otherwise generic photo of the 'action' at a PIM.
Something public? Never. But I'm sure many of us appear on internal documents, especially as it pertains to any laymen recommendations that we make.
Example: there was an intersection in my area with only one through signal, after the middle signal was changed to a left turn arrow (to accommodate a double left). I emailed the city to inform them of the issue; I recommended a new signal be installed on the mast instead of overhead, to improve visibility for those behind tall vehicles (big thing for me, as the driver of a regular sized vehicle). I later received confirmation that not only would they indeed go ahead with installing a new through signal, they also would *at my recommendation* install it on the mast (before (https://goo.gl/maps/cc86J6ayigD9q2L9A) / after (https://goo.gl/maps/bk2fDreX79VKY76v5)). I'm fairly certain my name appears somewhere on project files as the reason for the new signal head.
I know this isn't exactly the purpose of this thread, but it got me thinking about where my name might be. This is the only thing I can think of.
Prior to going to work for the agency formerly known as the Kentucky Revenue Cabinet, I was a newspaper editor.
After I went to work for KRC, my boss brought me a memo she had come across. I had called for information about a local taxation issue, and they had documented the call for their records. We laughed about it because the memo indicated that they did not anticipate the issue being controversial. It was ironic because my experience at covering tax issues was part of the reason they hired me.
I've had a few emails with NYSDOT in the past few years, but nothing more official than that.
One of those conversations was a request for AADT reports, and since I requested them before they were available, I'm pretty sure I was one of the first, if not the first, person outside the DOT to see them.
A few years ago I posted this upside down signal ahead sign (https://goo.gl/maps/KnXRVpPfSWk66e7t5) to the Facebook Sign Errors page, and the next time I went past it, it was fixed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1726/42608442411_8b4f8b15b9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27Vaptr)
Somewhere on AA Roads I posted the above picture to illustrate a curious milepost movement of about 15 feet all along this highway, from the post in the foreground to the current location past the shelter. Very soon after I posted this picture with the graffiti-damaged bus sign, I was riding the bus past this and Metro workers were installing a new sign. Coincidence? A few years later they would close and relocate the whole stop, and then this weekend the bus would be routed off this street.
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on September 25, 2020, 11:36:06 PM
A few years ago I posted this upside down signal ahead sign (https://goo.gl/maps/KnXRVpPfSWk66e7t5) to the Facebook Sign Errors page, and the next time I went past it, it was fixed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1726/42608442411_8b4f8b15b9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27Vaptr)
Somewhere on AA Roads I posted the above picture to illustrate a curious milepost movement of about 15 feet all along this highway, from the post in the foreground to the current location past the shelter. Very soon after I posted this picture with the graffiti-damaged bus sign, I was riding the bus past this and Metro workers were installing a new sign. Coincidence? A few years later they would close and relocate the whole stop, and then this weekend the bus would be routed off this street.
Interesting... that milemarker uses similar specifications to the distance markers used in Québec (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5687243,-73.4238282,3a,21.5y,133.69h,89.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJCdXHB4dtuPVvaHq0M0vqA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).
As some may know, my real name is Arthur Allen, because I didn't remove that information from Flicker photos I posted. I found this Street View from Australia: https://goo.gl/maps/nBbEU2y48ZssJa7v9