Hi, so here's a question I have about service areas on toll roads (mostly in the Northeast, but some elsewhere).
As for the people who work at the service areas (whether they be the clerk at the snack shop, a cook at one of the restaurants, or the janitor who cleans the building, among other roles) - how do they get to and from there every day without incurring the toll charges? Do they pay the toll every day like regular road users and get reimbursed later by their employer (presumably either the toll road agency or some contracting firm), or is there some sort of secret back entrance to the complex, which can be accessed from some nearby road?
I'm guessing the first explanation is more likely, but the second sounds cooler (plus, from looking at Street View, I know for a fact that many of the service areas on the Thruway in New York State have those backdoor passages connecting to roads that happen to run nearby).
Anyone have more info on this topic?
My guess is Occam's whiskers are getting itchy.
I know that the Mass Pike service plazas have a back way in through a local street.
Usually signed as "authorized vehicles only".
Quote from: Ben114 on August 12, 2020, 10:45:16 AM
I know that the Mass Pike service plazas have a back way in through a local street.
Usually signed as "authorized vehicles only".
PA Turnpike is the same way...signed as "PRIVATE ROADWAY" that leads to a separate parking lot.
I created a thread a while back about these "backdoor entrances". I think that the general public is allowed to use them sometimes though.
The plazas in Indiana all have a separate parking area that can be accessed from local roads.
The New Jersey Turnpike plazas have local road access. You can find many of them on Street View. They typically have a sign restricting access, though not always (I seem to recall at least one of them is down the end of a street that has some houses on either side).
Florida's Turnpike might be the most interesting in this respect because most (all? I'm not sure) of the plazas are in the median and some are in areas where there are no, or almost no, local roads nearby.
Side access roads on the Tri-State
Waukegon Toll Plaza (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4320916,-87.9518767,564m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Access on NB side.
Lake Forest Oasis (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2527395,-87.9017431,489m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Access on both sides.
Touhy Avenue Toll Plaza. (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0019036,-87.866622,599m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) NB only plaza has access on NB side.
O'Hare Oasis. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9505999,-87.8834363,506m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) Access on both sides.
Hinsdale Oasis. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7835119,-87.9081708,676m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) Access along frontage roads north of oasis.
82nd Street Toll Plaza. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7408254,-87.8285362,566m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) Access on both sides to local streets.
You get the idea
Some states have an employee EZPass that logs the read like any other car, but doesn't actually charge any money. These are mostly meant for maintenance vehicles, but it's possible service plaza employees might be able to get them too.
NJ did away with the free EZ Pass perk due to a bunch of whiners and complainers. Turnpike service plazas have employee lots accessible from local roads, and many of the toll plazas have these back ways in as well. At smaller plazas, employees can just cross thru the plaza to the other side to access the parking lot. AC Expressway and GSP service areas are in the median of the highway, but most of them do have ways to get there and back free without needing to pay a toll.
Ultimately, this issue can be looked at two ways: The tolls incurred are just like any other job: The employer isn't responsible for reimbursing you for tolls, and you're well aware that your commute between work and home will incur tolls. Or, there's a 'quiet' way for the employer to reimburse for tolls. While EZ Pass records may be fairly public, reimbursement via paycheck or travel reimbursement is generally not. Even if the payroll records are public, they would be public in gross pay/overtime pay/other pay in total, but won't reveal every line item of your paycheck or reimbursement.
DRPA and DRBA bridges all have roads to and from their parking areas where their employees don't have to pay either. Heck, in many cases the public can easily access these roads, but if they're caught, you get a nice little ticket for your troubles.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 12, 2020, 11:00:27 AM
Florida's Turnpike might be the most interesting in this respect because most (all? I'm not sure) of the plazas are in the median and some are in areas where there are no, or almost no, local roads nearby.
The semi-isolated Three Lake Toll Plaza has a half-mile access road to Friars Cove Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@28.1783536,-81.3011456,1177m/data=!3m1!1e3), which is still about 40 miles to the next southbound exit, but about 10 more north of it.
Not sure what you'd do if you work at the Fort Drum or Canoe Creek Service Plazas; the Yeehaw exit to Fort Drum Plaza isn't that far away, but Yeehaw Junction is just a speck of a town which is already 25-30 miles away any other civilization. That's a bitch of a commute for a retail job, though it's not as if there's many more jobs around those places.
The Ohio Turnpike also has local access roads to the backside of its service plazas. The ones in Amherst (near where I grew up) are shown on Google Maps (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3794696,-82.2278665,16z).
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 12, 2020, 01:42:30 PM
Ultimately, this issue can be looked at two ways: The tolls incurred are just like any other job: The employer isn't responsible for reimbursing you for tolls, and you're well aware that your commute between work and home will incur tolls. Or, there's a 'quiet' way for the employer to reimburse for tolls. While EZ Pass records may be fairly public, reimbursement via paycheck or travel reimbursement is generally not. Even if the payroll records are public, they would be public in gross pay/overtime pay/other pay in total, but won't reveal every line item of your paycheck or reimbursement.
For the vast majority of jobs, you're free to pick your route there, and if you can't afford to pay the tolls, you can often take a longer route to bypass the tolls. But you don't have that freedom if your job is
on the turnpike (and there's no back way in).
It's in the turnpike authority's best interest to provide some way around that to the service station employees. Otherwise, you risk making the service plaza jobs extremely unattractive. It's going to be hard finding someone who would take a $7.25/hour job working fast food that requires payment of $3 toll each way. Almost the whole first hour of your shift would be just paying the toll authority for your ride to work that day.
As many other posters have observed, many (if not nearly all) service plazas have service entrances accessible from local roads. This is not only for the benefit of restaurant/fuel station employees but also delivery drivers and other third-party vendors that need to access the plaza on a regular basis.
Another point to keep in mind is that the people who work at service plazas aren't employees of the toll road authority but rather an independent contractor (frequently HMSHost or the fuel vendor). So regardless of the toll road's policies and the logistical challenges of administering free passes or toll reimbursements to its own employees, it would be another level of complexity to extend those benefits to the constantly churning pool of low-paid workers employed by a separate entity.
And aside from the issue paying tolls, if plaza employees did utilize the toll road to get to their jobs, there's also the challenge of needing to make a long, circuitous trip on one or both legs of their commutes. For instance, a worker living in Plainfield, PA–virtually within sight distance of the Cumberland Valley Service Plaza–would have a commute in excess of 1 hour (https://goo.gl/maps/eXvgFagbDWPBKNE9A) (about 55 miles); then it would take that worker the better part of a half hour to drive home.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 12, 2020, 10:52:56 AM
I created a thread a while back about these "backdoor entrances". I think that the general public is allowed to use them sometimes though.
This question has come up on other threads (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=26457.msg2480456#msg2480456) in the past, and at least for the Pennsylvania Turnpike, I've always taken the attitude that the public can use them.
Well, the Kansas Turnpike doesn't have access roads to its service plazas.
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 03:20:33 PM
Well, the Kansas Turnpike doesn't have access roads to its service plazas.
Two of them do:
https://goo.gl/maps/wjocMHTahhvo2LmY6
https://goo.gl/maps/JJtjyYVxbkkv4koh7
I've heard (from someone who used to work at one of them) that people who get on and off the Turnpike at the same exit are charged for time instead of distance. But I can't remember whether their tolls were paid for by their employer or not.
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 03:20:33 PM
Well, the Kansas Turnpike doesn't have access roads to its service plazas.
Quote from: stridentweasel on August 12, 2020, 04:46:08 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/wjocMHTahhvo2LmY6
Emergency vehicles only, padlocked (https://goo.gl/maps/yVvkdu4GN8WbdwjC7)
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 03:20:33 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/JJtjyYVxbkkv4koh7
Doesn't actually make it to the service area (https://goo.gl/maps/UCgqc4tvoPdAobxA6), but I guess it counts.
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 04:52:15 PM
Emergency vehicles only, padlocked (https://goo.gl/maps/yVvkdu4GN8WbdwjC7)
Well, that makes sense. Otherwise, it would have to be one-way, and they'd have to build another road for the other direction.
Quote
Doesn't actually make it to the service area (https://goo.gl/maps/UCgqc4tvoPdAobxA6), but I guess it counts.
I want to say I'm surprised they didn't just put a gate and a call box right here: https://goo.gl/maps/3r6UVrbkPQut1hqb9 , except you'd have to run a wire that whole distance, if the electrical/communications infrastructure isn't already in place.
Edit: Actually, maybe they allow customers to use that access road without having to get on and off the Turnpike. I wonder if that's a first for toll road service plazas.
As mentioned above, the NYS Thruway has local road access to the backside of the buildings in the Service Area. While these roads are posted with "NYS Thruway Use Only" or something like that, I know plenty of people that live in Westmoreland, N.Y. that would use these roads to go to the Burger King at the Oneida Service Area.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on August 12, 2020, 12:59:32 AM
Do they pay the toll every day like regular road users and get reimbursed later by their employer
I would very be surprised if this were a common occurrence. I'm pretty sure employees pay all tolls out of pocket unless they use a secret entrance.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on August 16, 2020, 12:06:06 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on August 12, 2020, 12:59:32 AM
Do they pay the toll every day like regular road users and get reimbursed later by their employer
I would very be surprised if this were a common occurrence. I'm pretty sure employees pay all tolls out of pocket unless they use a secret entrance.
Without the secret entrance, how do employees not end up in a tangled mess trying to get home? If you're on (for example) the southbound side of the highway but live north bound, you have to continue south and then double back north to get home. Depending on when the next exit is, that could take a while. I believe there's an example of this up-thread.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 16, 2020, 12:08:25 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on August 16, 2020, 12:06:06 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on August 12, 2020, 12:59:32 AM
Do they pay the toll every day like regular road users and get reimbursed later by their employer
I would very be surprised if this were a common occurrence. I'm pretty sure employees pay all tolls out of pocket unless they use a secret entrance.
Without the secret entrance, how do employees not end up in a tangled mess trying to get home? If you're on (for example) the southbound side of the highway but live north bound, you have to continue south and then double back north to get home. Depending on when the next exit is, that could take a while. I believe there's an example of this up-thread.
Wouldn't this problem exist with maintenance workers at one-way rest areas along traditional interstate highways and freeways?
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 16, 2020, 12:08:25 AM
Without the secret entrance, how do employees not end up in a tangled mess trying to get home?
I would say that, most often, they do in fact get in a tangled mess trying to get home. As with so many things in life, I'm pretty sure that the solution to almost all of the problems mentioned in this thread is (not to be too blunt), "suck it up."
Quote from: Ben114 on August 12, 2020, 10:45:16 AM
I know that the Mass Pike service plazas have a back way in through a local street.
Usually signed as "authorized vehicles only".
Such as this very well known one on US 20 in Charlton to the EB plaza (https://goo.gl/maps/qjpeYxU4e36dzf23A)
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 16, 2020, 11:19:24 AM
Such as this very well known one on US 20 in Charlton to the EB plaza (https://goo.gl/maps/qjpeYxU4e36dzf23A)
In July 2004, we spent a month in Worcester, MA and we often went on mini-trips throughout the region. On one such outing, we went to Old Sturbridge Village and returned to Worcester via Route 20. I remember seeing that sign at the time.
Quote from: skluth on August 12, 2020, 11:32:35 AM
Side access roads on the Tri-State
Waukegon Toll Plaza (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4320916,-87.9518767,564m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Access on NB side.
Lake Forest Oasis (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2527395,-87.9017431,489m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Access on both sides.
Touhy Avenue Toll Plaza. (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0019036,-87.866622,599m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) NB only plaza has access on NB side.
O'Hare Oasis. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9505999,-87.8834363,506m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) Access on both sides.
Hinsdale Oasis. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7835119,-87.9081708,676m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) Access along frontage roads north of oasis.
82nd Street Toll Plaza. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7408254,-87.8285362,566m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) Access on both sides to local streets.
You get the idea
I have a friend who worked at an office building that is located just south of the Lake Forest Oasis (late 1980s) and sometimes walked over to it for lunch.
Mike
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 12, 2020, 02:38:55 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 12, 2020, 01:42:30 PM
Ultimately, this issue can be looked at two ways: The tolls incurred are just like any other job: The employer isn't responsible for reimbursing you for tolls, and you're well aware that your commute between work and home will incur tolls. Or, there's a 'quiet' way for the employer to reimburse for tolls. While EZ Pass records may be fairly public, reimbursement via paycheck or travel reimbursement is generally not. Even if the payroll records are public, they would be public in gross pay/overtime pay/other pay in total, but won't reveal every line item of your paycheck or reimbursement.
For the vast majority of jobs, you're free to pick your route there, and if you can't afford to pay the tolls, you can often take a longer route to bypass the tolls. But you don't have that freedom if your job is on the turnpike (and there's no back way in).
It's in the turnpike authority's best interest to provide some way around that to the service station employees. Otherwise, you risk making the service plaza jobs extremely unattractive. It's going to be hard finding someone who would take a $7.25/hour job working fast food that requires payment of $3 toll each way. Almost the whole first hour of your shift would be just paying the toll authority for your ride to work that day.
For what it's worth, minimum wage in NJ is currently $10 an hour. A quick look at available jobs at toll & service plazas shows the lowest wage is $11/hour. Note that the service plaza jobs are thru HMSHost and not the NJ Turnpike.
The other issue is working a plaza close to home. For new employees, they are most often placed at busy plazas on undesirable shifts. For me, that was Interchange 1, about 25 miles from home. Eventually they can ask to transfer to other plazas and/or other shifts as they become available.
And that's if they even survive the first few weeks. Many new employees don't last two weeks. Collecting tolls in a 3'x6' booth ain't the world's most desirable job!
Quote from: zzcarp on August 12, 2020, 02:36:50 PM
The Ohio Turnpike also has local access roads to the backside of its service plazas. The ones in Amherst (near where I grew up) are shown on Google Maps (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3794696,-82.2278665,16z).
In addition, they have smaller signs at the start of the service road that notates the service plaza, the fact that the public can use this road to access the service plaza, (sans the gas stations) and that there is no access to the actual roadway.
Until the 90's, most of the plazas had a simple chain-link fence gate that separated the mainline parking area from the local access parking lot, and it was more.times than not that the gate was unlocked and wide open for vehicles to travel between the two lots. Nowadays, they use keypad/keycard access with an automatic gate for a more secure checkpoint.
Also prevents college kids from in-flight shunpiking, or at least what my dormmates down the hall told me decades ago.
On toll roads with median U-turns, would service plaza workers be considered authorized users of these turnarounds to keep from having to go all the way to the next exit and turning around to get back where they're going?
If assume that their employer sets up an expense tracking site or account where employee is either PRovided a toll tag or they are charged their personal toll tag and then submit receipt On an expense tracking site for reimbursement. Working for NYSDOT, it's not a major issue on Long Island due to lack of tolls but state vehicles have ezpass issued under NYS Thruway authority and if if you use personal vehicle for work to track the tolls on expense anywhere account and submit for reimbursement along with mileage. It works the same for ferry access, I was able to pickup a ferry pass to shelter island from maintenance yard but construction unit usually has to pay personally Out of pocket and submit receipts and get reimbursement at end of the month.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 18, 2020, 09:58:31 AM
On toll roads with median U-turns, would service plaza workers be considered authorized users of these turnarounds to keep from having to go all the way to the next exit and turning around to get back where they're going?
Even if that were true, it wouldn't solve the potential problem of being charged the turnpike's maximum amount for having driven an impossible route.
In Florida even Toll Collectors have to drive to the next exit to turn about. In Kissimmee when I worked the Exit 249 ramp, I could not even park up at the end of the ramp and walk to the plaza. I had to originally enter through Orlando South (Exit 254) before SR 417 opened to the Turnpike and drive the toll road to get into the parking lot only from the ramp.
When we used the company vehicle to reach the NB entrance ramp to collect, at the end of the shift we had to drive north to SR 417 and make a u turn at Landstar Blvd. on 417 to return to it SB to the Turnpike exit, travel south and exit at 249.
Only Leesburg on the mainline had a parking lot accessible from a local off freeway road and US 192 plaza at Exit 244 was easy in from US 192 so driving the toll road was not necessary there either.
The Sunshine Skyway Bridge has to have its workers use the Skyway Rest areas to make a u turn to go back which is located a few miles onto the causeway. Yes, we have to drive far out to either arrive or leave work, so the plaza employees must as well.
^^^^^^
"Turning around" seems like less of an issue for Florida's Turnpike toll collectors because U-turns at the service areas are not prohibited in the same way they are in the Northeast.
A related but different topic, I always wondered how toll workers got to the smaller toll booths located at exit ramps, and how do they go to the bathroom and what happens when they go to the bathroom. I understood how they go to work at the big toll plazas because there would usually be overhead catwalks. All that was answered for me 15 years ago when I was working on a survey for redesigning a few exit ramps on the Sam Houston Tollway on Houston. Simply, the worker walked on to the exit ramp when no one was coming (scary) and got into their little toll both, which had a toilet in it. When they needed to go to the bathroom, the pike went up and tolls were free for 30 seconds, so lucky you if you were exiting while the worker was going to the bathroom.
Back to the topic the OP brought up, I think of it like many other jobs where there is something about physically getting to your place of employment requires extra steps. Like it was discussed, if I take a tollway to get to my job, that's on me and my employer will not reimburse me, but if my job had a tollway going into the parking garage that was meant to charge visitors, then yes, they will reimburse me because it's not designed to charge the workers. Same thing about people who work the restaurants at an airport. You have to have a plane ticket to enter the area where most of the restaurants are. So do the workers have to buy a $200 plane ticket every day? No, they have special IDs to get them through the secure zone. I think with so much electronic toll collection nowadays, and since it is run off car's license plates, maybe they have a way to exclude your plate if you are employed on the tollways on work days. That may be more difficult then it seems, so maybe they just reimburse a flat fee, whether you use that much or not. For ticket systems, surely the place of employment has a system where they can "validate" the ticket like a parking garage?
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 19, 2020, 08:37:10 AM
A related but different topic, I always wondered how toll workers got to the smaller toll booths located at exit ramps, and how do they go to the bathroom and what happens when they go to the bathroom. I understood how they go to work at the big toll plazas because there would usually be overhead catwalks. All that was answered for me 15 years ago when I was working on a survey for redesigning a few exit ramps on the Sam Houston Tollway on Houston. Simply, the worker walked on to the exit ramp when no one was coming (scary) and got into their little toll both, which had a toilet in it. When they needed to go to the bathroom, the pike went up and tolls were free for 30 seconds, so lucky you if you were exiting while the worker was going to the bathroom.
...
FWIW, some large toll plazas have an access tunnel instead of an overhead catwalk - for instance, at the (now-former) Chesapeake Bay Bridge toll plaza you can see stairs leading underground between each booth (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0129701,-76.4075918,3a,75y,334.83h,68.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYWT1aAkui_otjx3d_cWbQg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
I've seen toll-takers change at the Mackinac Bridge. They simply wait for the gate to go down for the lane they are crossing. If a toll gate is closed, the gate is already down.
I used to wonder this as a kid until I was on Google Maps and noticed access roads. The Ardsley service area on the Thruway in Westchester has the only Popeye's in the area haha.
I also used to wonder how service areas on parkways got fuel deliveries. Then I noticed that the ones in the median (Palisades, the Hutch just south of 684) are sandwiched between exits so that a tanker could enter the parkway for a very short distance, make the delivery, enter the parkway again for a short distance, and take the next exit. Though I wonder if this is the same case for gas stations that are on not in the median, like the gas stations on the Hutch just north of the Whitestone Bridge.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 19, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
^^^^^^
"Turning around" seems like less of an issue for Florida's Turnpike toll collectors because U-turns at the service areas are not prohibited in the same way they are in the Northeast.
Maryland and Delaware have allowed "U" turns at their median plazas since the ramp tolls were removed many years ago on the JFK Highway part of I-95.
When the ramp tolls were still there, making a "U" turn was a way to evade payment of the ramp tolls, and the points at which a "U" could be made were blocked by a barrier (not very strongly) that looked a lot like a railroad grade crossing gate. A lot of times these were broken or just left in the up position.
Yeah, I just don't consider Maryland and Delaware to be part of the Northeast.
The only one I've seen is on the H. E. Bailey Turnpike in Oklahoma. The service area is just north of the toll plaza. Anyone can drive out to the service area and turn around and go back to town without paying a toll. I'd assume most if not all of the workers are from Lawton and other places to the north, and that this is why the put the service area on the north side.
It seems to be a common design in Oklahoma to place service areas where there's no toll between there and town. The one near Chickasha is just outside of town, where it might draw customers who don't end up being charged tolls.