Some of the latest conversations in the Traffic Signal thread (including a "debate" about which state has the nicest signals) has prompted me to propose the following challenge.
Post pics (or GSV) of traffic signals that represent a "typical" installation in a city, a state, or a DOT district. Be prepared to discuss strengths and weaknesses of the setup, both from an aesthetic and a traffic control point of view. Of course, there could be more than one typical standard, so I leave it in your judgment to discuss what is or isn't standard.
I leave it to the group to discuss their local area (or other areas that they are familiar), since it seems more productive than for me to place Pegman in a random location in a state that I am not familiar with and say, "oh yeah the signals in State X are great" when the signal that I chose randomly may only reflect a local city practice and may not be representative of the state (or DOT district) as a whole.
I'll start with an example from where I grew up, Los Angeles:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1720648,-118.4093385,3a,75y,316.85h,84.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgwRI_pfgT-RDrcYYXujmHw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
The corner of Bellaire and Burbank Blvd in Valley Village (part of North Hollywood). While most San Fernando Valley neighborhoods have their own identity and are sometimes viewed as being separate cities, nearly all of them (except Calabasas, Burbank, Glendale, and San Fernando) are in fact within the City of Los Angeles. This is a typical older install from the 1960's and 1970's era showing a typical intersection between a major street and a minor street within the city limits. (This is not typical of the state of CA as a whole.) I deliberately chose a signal in the Valley as most of the signals south of the hill are more modern and no longer represent the typical setup as well.
On all corners, except the right side signals facing Burbank, you have sidemounted signals on their own poles. A pushbutton exists for peds to cross Burbank, but the signal is timed to favor Burbank, so there is no equivalent button for peds to cross the narrower Bellaire. (This is useful, IMO, as we should be judicious in using these buttons and not force peds to push the button at every signal they face, especially if they are following the prevailing traffic pattern.) The pedestrian signals were originally walk/don't walk, but nearly all of the ped signals in L.A. have been modernized to the international symbols (and this likely occurred during the '90s). Most of the sidemounts are 8-8-8 signals, but some of those facing Bellaire have been improved to 12-12-12 to increase visibility.
The older signal faces are olive green in color, but the newer ones are nearly pitch black. On the right side facing Burbank, you have a streetlight and attached to the streetlight is a guy-wired mast arm with a 12-12-12 signal as well as a sidemount 8-8-8 and a pedestrian signal. Except for the most decorative streetlights (e.g. Hollywood Blvd), where a mast arm will be posted separately, mast arms tend to be posted on the streetlight mast, which also helps to avoid clutter at street level.
And of course, the famous L.A. trademark of large blue signs at every signalized intersection. The signs for Bellaire used to be posted right above the right sidemount, but they are now hanging from the mast arm over the middle of the street. These are common now in other parts of teh country (usually green signs instead of blue), but I remember when it was a rarity to see these outside of CA and drivers had to look for the smaller street blades while slowing down traffic, so I'm glad this caught on.
One of the nicest things about this setup, is that the signals are not too cluttered. You have a signal at every corner, which helps traffic that is turning aim their line of sight toward pedestrians. You also have a mast arm setup for the wider street, to help traffic see the signal from a distance. For an older setup, IMO this is great as it fully accomplishes the necessity of visible signals without overdoing it.
There are no left turn arrows present. At one time, there were very few intersections with arrows, although they are now being installed regularly at the intersections of two major streets.
Typical STL metro signal (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6010763,-90.4319127,3a,60y,296.92h,100.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGF6KrbWc8sC51BwjVfpy-g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/). Second, slightly newer example here (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6550489,-90.4054535,3a,75y,154.8h,90.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4ZoOXH61VtHU1R5iKYGjMg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/).
Description; standard pole length (gray usually or black if city chooses), street signs standard or electronically lit if city chooses, standard signals are black 12' Durasigs (some older ones with yellow backs (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.5669536,-90.4256129,3a,60y,74.81h,91.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx3m85jnzfRSpu8MziIsc7g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/)) or 12' black Econolite poly buttonbacks (newer installs).
Pros=clean, MUTCD kosher, FYAs, concrete mount at base (standard for MO), 90% of signals are mast arms (here's one that isn't (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6275938,-90.4830558,3a,60y,288.46h,94.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s75nE7qYaORy2yE411RjL2g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656/))
Cons=not many sidemounts
Some older signals in MO use T-shaped designs (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6007488,-90.396889,3a,58.6y,1.96h,97.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7wiubIr_foS3Tkv4PQhPcQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656/) stemming from the median with inline-5 PPLTs on the center pole (most recently replaced with doghouses). They often show signs of age, from old concrete bases to rusting brown poles. You can generally tell how old a MO signal is from the amount of rust on the part connecting the horizontal pole to the vertical (as seen here (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.5927121,-90.5019196,3a,75.7y,257.09h,99.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQWIObvlpQA3rIva4Q5zCNA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656/)).
Really old signals have rust all over (like this intersection (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.8229725,-90.2498043,3a,84y,249.08h,86.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7iYv-FqZc-PP8ylTW4Xrlg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) by the abandoned Jamestown Mall in North County).
Typical Suburban Bay Area Signal (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7361685,-121.9183634,3a,31y,231.92h,94.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOijFS5d5FybNA1hMG9Z-hQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Pros: The sheer amount of signals per movement. It makes it easy to tell the status of the light whether you are first in line or behind a line of trucks. My favourite feature (which this intersection in particular highlights) is the signal in the top-left of the image. I'm not sure what the terminology is for it, but this intersection is on a slope and you can see that light as you approach so that you know to slow down or to maintain speed. Street signs also tend to be backlit and red light cameras are very rare in this area.
Cons: Our signals tend to have rather long red lights and often do not trigger for bicyclists. You will also have a hard time finding permissive left turn signalling, especially on major streets. At three-way intersections like this, there also are often crosswalks missing to prevent conflicts with pedestrians and left turns. When three-way intersections do have all crosswalks, it often leads to unsafe situations for pedestrians crossing. (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.719099,-121.910481,3a,60y,76.66h,80.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWtE2bgq5D2Jp7_h_glwkzg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) In the case of the intersection linked in this paragraph, crossing on the left (from the view of the street view) often leads to near-misses as drivers tend to gun it when making left turns here.
Here's one from my hometown of Chicago, at a certain classic ballpark where I used to go frequently:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9471972,-87.6565463,3a,75y,56.24h,93.21t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_xv6kIDKsqVowk5S4MY_cQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D_xv6kIDKsqVowk5S4MY_cQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D231.70473%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
The street name sign placement varies from place to place. Some places have the sign between the signals, and others, like the one seen here, have it on the pole. Also, most of them are painted black. I like that there's an extra signal mounted on the left side for all directions so you can see what your situation is.
Below is a typical setup for intersections where both streets are one-way:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8793544,-87.6352889,3a,73.5y,317h,102.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sjCpZPoeNixRC-CwgytV-mw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DjCpZPoeNixRC-CwgytV-mw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D110.18012%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
In this setup, all signals are mounted directly on the poles, eliminating the need for unsightly overhead structures, which I like.
My one wish is for intersections with five-section signals (or signal tower, if you will), like the one below:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9543309,-87.6690807,3a,62.1y,153.52h,96.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sg5UuewAsoZHm6T-d2GFHMA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dg5UuewAsoZHm6T-d2GFHMA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D126.86241%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
I've always felt that these types are very confusing because they don't give the same clear information that a doghouse would. I'd either suggest putting that up or even a FYA.
Quote from: ari-s-drives on August 19, 2020, 10:40:41 AM
At three-way intersections like this, there also are often crosswalks missing to prevent conflicts with pedestrians and left turns. When three-way intersections do have all crosswalks, it often leads to unsafe situations for pedestrians crossing. (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.719099,-121.910481,3a,60y,76.66h,80.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWtE2bgq5D2Jp7_h_glwkzg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) In the case of the intersection linked in this paragraph, crossing on the left (from the view of the street view) often leads to near-misses as drivers tend to gun it when making left turns here.
I really like the traffic lights and arms on this example (pretty new). The thin but large and electrically lit street blades, signal placement, clean jet-black McCains, the sturdy poles...it all looks pretty great to me. There are ways to slightly overdo it (https://www.google.pl/maps/@32.9503149,-117.2426283,3a,75y,70.09h,95.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAgc3oNxTVYj6FyC0rx2n2A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) on pole size, but this one doesn't do that.
One thing I haven't seen in CA are the poly buttonback signals (common in newer MO signals and prevalent in IL and NJ).
I'll give a quick overview of Minnesota:
Typical, newer galvanized (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5948939,-94.1913205,3a,28.7y,45.11h,97.18t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sc2SfyvHkoVmrgNLttlKFnA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dc2SfyvHkoVmrgNLttlKFnA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D275.7709%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) MNDOT signal. I'd say 90+% of all new installations across the state regardless of agency look more or less exactly like this. Certain cities will paint signals (typically black or a dark green), but the vast majority are unpainted just like this one. These have been the MNDOT standard since the late 2000s when they moved away from aluminum signals.
Typical, older aluminum MNDOT signal. Still found all over the state. Again, there's almost no variation in design regardless of agency. This design was used with minimal changes from the 1960s (https://goo.gl/maps/PtFxoUCKMgBWWjTHA)up until the late 2000s (https://goo.gl/maps/5xaRx5PAa6x6XJmH6). The bases of these signals were painted to prevent rust and increase visibility, typically a yellow or orange color. As you can see, even with the switch from aluminum to galvanized signals the overall design hasn't changed much over the decades. Again, the three examples that I linked more or less account for probably 80-90% of all signal designs across the state.
Now for the fun designs. Across the state a few agencies have opted for a more conventional mast arm look, shedding MNDOT's bulky truss-arms for a more attractive monotube design. Further, we can split the monotube mast-arm designs into two catagories: one that I call "Minneapolis-style" (https://goo.gl/maps/rD9dwZWBfNC4a4ar5) masts, named because this is the design that the city of Minneapolis uses exclusively and are where you'd find most signals of this design. Variations on the "Minneapolis-style" also exist in Duluth (https://goo.gl/maps/dbUqSvWcv2Hzx1jEA), Saint Paul (https://goo.gl/maps/vHmAS5ihztHERo2w6), and Rochester (https://goo.gl/maps/qGdUXfVnT5Hr7nAT9) (though sadly Rochester has opted back to the typical MNDOT-style truss-arm design in recent years).
The second monotube design that you'll find in Minnesota is what I call the "Hennepin County/California-style design". Named, of course, because basically every municipality in Hennepin county except Minneapolis as well as the county itself uses this design. The only truss-arm style signals that you'll find in Hennepin county are signals directly maintained by MNDOT. Older (https://goo.gl/maps/3zXmHP5pdcUY4ogQ6) Hennepin county signals look very much like the older MNDOT signals minus the difference in mast arms, but about a decade ago the county totally redesigned their signals to take on a look that pretty much looks straight out of California. That newer design (https://goo.gl/maps/8xyZDVKKVT71UkrG6) is my personal favorite of all Minnesota signals. All of the newer Hennepin signals are painted black as well, which is a plus. To a lesser extent the Hennepin county-style signals can also be found in the Saint Cloud area (https://goo.gl/maps/AXDSL5VUNifhwkQX6).
There are, of course, other one-off or few-off signal designs as well but that pretty much covers the most common.
This seems fun!
Hope I don't forget anything lol.
Here is the major intersection in my town's downtown.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4154018,-71.1529622,3a,60y,316.68h,89.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soODperEsdhq427pfFAUNsA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
This is the busiest signal in town. It has major bike traffic (along with one of the busiest bike path corridors in the country), Buses, and tons of cars on both roads.
Pros: Reflective Backplates, Bike Signals, Protected turns against bikes and pedestrians (No yielding needed here!!).
Cons: Should backplates go on the pole mounted signals? https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4154947,-71.1534018,3a,30.9y,133.76h,92.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szQlFDq5fOk1eEtI1DvBI0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en What the hell is with the placement of this bike signal. No turn on red signs are great but no turn on red arrow signs are better. And really. A bike box. We could do better than this for such a major bike route.
Did I miss anything? Not sure. What do you all think.
Quote from: Amtrakprod on August 19, 2020, 07:00:35 PM
Cons: Should backplates go on the pole mounted signals?
I personally think so but I know jakeroot isn't a fan.
Quote from: STLmapboy on August 19, 2020, 08:04:11 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on August 19, 2020, 07:00:35 PM
Cons: Should backplates go on the pole mounted signals?
I personally think so but I know jakeroot isn't a fan.
I think no too haha but I was posting this bc this intersection has signals on pole mounts with and without backplates lmao
All around Illinois, there are many different styles.
Henry showed the 1990s and newer style of Chicago earlier.
An older Chicago style was like this at Milwaukee Ave and Elston Ave:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9926149,-87.7831891,3a,75y,101.25h,88.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIZ9EO4OjL5d_c4JDJ82FKw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
The classic Illinois truss signal setup that the state has discontinued around 1990. The side signals also used to be mounted that way. New York St at Fox Valley Mall:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7620135,-88.2101947,3a,90y,321.63h,89.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTZOOnhkKfhj_quzSrLiVDg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
Just a block down from the previous one, this, at Route 59, is the typical new setup in the last 5 to 10 years for suburban Chicago.:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7621897,-88.2058129,3a,75y,352.66h,90.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1seydB0gHw-H9qSLSG-7f5kQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DeydB0gHw-H9qSLSG-7f5kQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D40.483932%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
DuPage County in the 1990s started going to this design. 75th St & Olympus Dr in Naperville:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7482581,-88.1390903,3a,75y,233.3h,87.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTvE0BKrvL7sa8hjVPNFaIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
Even some cities not called Chicago have their own style.
Aurora 1980s:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7564395,-88.2813354,3a,75y,254.35h,90.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgEUhp8SylBPi4vk41on4-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
Aurora Downtown 2000s. New York & Lincoln:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7569605,-88.3097091,3a,75y,294.21h,90.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk3HRVbf3qNtlfCH-xTNTag!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
Joliet Downtown 1960s. This was a working full signal. They made it a 4 way stop sign now with a flasing red. Chicago St & Clinton St.:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5269928,-88.0816477,3a,90y,165.48h,96.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8AbXXLZusaP2okBmwJ4fDg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
Wheaton Downtown 1990s. Main St & Liberty Dr.:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8640704,-88.1065896,3a,75y,352.39h,84.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seR0mgRYWYrPyt-MDpZjBkA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
Current set up for most of the rest of Illinois. Route 47 & Gore Rd in Morris:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3925568,-88.4222981,3a,75y,356.09h,78.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-v2NC6q7C06svT5RvNn_Zw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
Typical setup if the signal is next to a railroad. Route 113 in Braidwood.:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2640871,-88.2115851,3a,75y,322.08h,81.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7OTzxdDSuhZjlpRXDuX4Dg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
The New York/Lincoln signal in Aurora is interesting. One of the mast arms is situated quite a bit back from the corner (about a quarter block).
Thank you for the overview.
I love the curved mast arms that my city of KC uses. Here's an example from Street View right near my apartment.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0570177,-94.5955072,3a,30y,190.23h,97.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSjLRY_Tfoh14QDO7pptR5A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (39th & Southwest Trafficway)
Quote from: EpicRoadways on August 19, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
Older (https://goo.gl/maps/3zXmHP5pdcUY4ogQ6) Hennepin county signals look very much like the older MNDOT signals minus the difference in mast arms, but about a decade ago the county totally redesigned their signals to take on a look that pretty much looks straight out of California. That newer design (https://goo.gl/maps/8xyZDVKKVT71UkrG6) is my personal favorite of all Minnesota signals.
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 20, 2020, 07:25:15 PM
DuPage County in the 1990s started going to this design. 75th St & Olympus Dr in Naperville:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7482581,-88.1390903,3a,75y,233.3h,87.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTvE0BKrvL7sa8hjVPNFaIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
I'm pretty sure that aside from the paint job those signals are all the exact same design (made by Millerbernd, a MN-based company). I had no idea that Millerbernd signal poles/masts were used outside of Minnesota and the Dakotas; very interesting! Despite being hundreds of miles apart they look like they could be installed just down the street from each other.
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 20, 2020, 07:25:15 PM
...
Typical setup if the signal is next to a railroad. Route 113 in Braidwood.:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2640871,-88.2115851,3a,75y,322.08h,81.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7OTzxdDSuhZjlpRXDuX4Dg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
The little pedestrian railroad arm is adorable.
In Florida we have many different variations of signal installations. It used to be
one though with concrete poles leaned back and one or four span wires. Now each region has each own design between mast arms and span wires.
Tampa Bay region is hung up lately on span wires with box installations strung from fat poles. Some use suspenders to keep signal heads at one height due to cable drooping.
Orlando Downtown uses brown California style curved arms with a square sodium vapor light on top the poles. The rest of Orlando mixes them up and uses span wires, bent arms, or straight arms.
Panhandle is going for horizontal heads on mast arms.
South Florida is also mast arms with horizontal heads.
Gainesville and Tallahassee ditto as the last two.
Indian River County with green pole mast arms horizontal heads.
Jacksonville mixed between arms and span wire.
St Augustine is red mast arms.
Lake, Sumter, Marion, and Hernando lean mainly for span wires.
The Naples area is converting to horizontal signal heads on mast arms.
The rest of Florida is equal though more small cities using mast arms more.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 22, 2020, 12:57:33 PM
In Florida we have many different variations of signal installations. It used to be
one though with concrete poles leaned back and one or four span wires. Now each region has each own design between mast arms and span wires.
Tampa Bay region is hung up lately on span wires with box installations strung from fat poles. Some use suspenders to keep signal heads at one height due to cable drooping.
Orlando Downtown uses brown California style curved arms with a square sodium vapor light on top the poles. The rest of Orlando mixes them up and uses span wires, bent arms, or straight arms.
Panhandle is going for horizontal heads on mast arms.
South Florida is also mast arms with horizontal heads.
Gainesville and Tallahassee ditto as the last two.
Indian River County with green pole mast arms horizontal heads.
Jacksonville mixed between arms and span wire.
St Augustine is red mast arms.
Lake, Sumter, Marion, and Hernando lean mainly for span wires.
The Naples area is converting to horizontal signal heads on mast arms.
The rest of Florida is equal though more small cities using mast arms more.
As far as the rest of the country, regarding span wires vs. mast arms, here's what I've come to determine, based on my travels and from various pictures I've seen:
Span wires tend to predominate in the South (aside from what you mentioned re: Florida) and some of the Great Lakes states (especially Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio); meanwhile, the rest of the Midwest, as well as the western states, mast arms seem to be dominant. On the other hand, the Northeast seems to be more mixed, but the proportions of the two installation types seem to vary widely from state to state. (For example, from my travels, I recall that most of NY state, especially Upstate, seems to lean towards span wires, while mast arms are the preferred form in PA).
Does that analysis seem right?
Quote from: KCRoadFan on August 22, 2020, 10:34:23 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 22, 2020, 12:57:33 PM
In Florida we have many different variations of signal installations. It used to be
one though with concrete poles leaned back and one or four span wires. Now each region has each own design between mast arms and span wires.
Tampa Bay region is hung up lately on span wires with box installations strung from fat poles. Some use suspenders to keep signal heads at one height due to cable drooping.
Orlando Downtown uses brown California style curved arms with a square sodium vapor light on top the poles. The rest of Orlando mixes them up and uses span wires, bent arms, or straight arms.
Panhandle is going for horizontal heads on mast arms.
South Florida is also mast arms with horizontal heads.
Gainesville and Tallahassee ditto as the last two.
Indian River County with green pole mast arms horizontal heads.
Jacksonville mixed between arms and span wire.
St Augustine is red mast arms.
Lake, Sumter, Marion, and Hernando lean mainly for span wires.
The Naples area is converting to horizontal signal heads on mast arms.
The rest of Florida is equal though more small cities using mast arms more.
As far as the rest of the country, regarding span wires vs. mast arms, here's what I've come to determine, based on my travels and from various pictures I've seen:
Span wires tend to predominate in the South (aside from what you mentioned re: Florida) and some of the Great Lakes states (especially Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio); meanwhile, the rest of the Midwest, as well as the western states, mast arms seem to be dominant. On the other hand, the Northeast seems to be more mixed, but the proportions of the two installation types seem to vary widely from state to state. (For example, from my travels, I recall that most of NY state, especially Upstate, seems to lean towards span wires, while mast arms are the preferred form in PA).
Does that analysis seem right?
Yeah. Every state west of the Mississippi is majority mast arm (save Louisiana--Texas also has lots of wires). This includes Alaska and Hawaii. The southeast is heavily span wire (MS, AL, GA, kind of FL, SC, NC, TN, KY), save Virginia (which is mostly arms). You are spot on about OH, MI, and IN being predominantly wires (though OH has a higher percentage of mast arms than the other two). The northeast is quite varied, as you mentioned.
Texas though next to Florida has the widest variety of signal installations though.
They have two different types of mast arms. The straight mono tube or the curved one with flat sides to them.
Then they have two colors with either black or yellow ( black prevails mostly in Greater Houston or Dallas).
They feature mainly horizontal signal heads, but some areas like Galveston, Fort Worth, Amarillo, and San Antonio use standard vertically hung signal heads.
The state seems to use mostly two balls or two arrows for protected left turn signals though the area around San Antonio just uses typical three section left turn signals with one red ball or arrow.
I've been holding off posting here until I actually had some decent photos.
Washington State is a very interesting place for traffic lights. There are some widely-varying standards depending on the county or city, or even which district you're in with regards to WSDOT.
Federal Way has the most interesting traffic lights; their standards are far beyond what WSDOT normally requires. Here's some details, followed by some photos:
* Post-mounted signals on the left and right are always used
* Near-side signals are very common depending on the size of the intersection (both near-right pole and overhead on the mast arm)
* Older signals used through-minus-one for overhead signals (note image #2 -- very CA-esque), but new intersections use signal-per-lane
* Masts without attached overhead lighting are exceptionally rare
As far as operation:
* Lagging green arrows are preferred throughout the day, but advanced greens are more common at night. Single lane lefts are always FYAs.
* Single-lane left turns are now designed for FYAs even when opposite a double left turn (this was not always the case, but is now)
* Most corridors have automatic walk signals during the day (~ 5am to 10pm)
* T-intersections generally use FYA signals that activate in the direction of an activated crosswalk
I will write more about other jurisdictions as I get the time.
(https://i.imgur.com/6eNoYnu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bEs8BWd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2WQ7KlQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A9A7ntm.jpg)
Quote from: jakeroot on August 25, 2020, 04:13:33 PM
I've been holding off posting here until I actually had some decent photos.
Washington State is a very interesting place for traffic lights. There are some widely-varying standards depending on the county or city, or even which district you're in with regards to WSDOT.
Federal Way has the most interesting traffic lights; their standards are far beyond what WSDOT normally requires. Here's some details, followed by some photos:
* Post-mounted signals on the left and right are always used
* Near-side signals are very common depending on the size of the intersection (both near-right pole and overhead on the mast arm)
* Older signals used through-minus-one for overhead signals (note image #2 -- very CA-esque), but new intersections use signal-per-lane
* Masts without attached overhead lighting are exceptionally rare
As far as operation:
* Lagging green arrows are preferred throughout the day, but advanced greens are more common at night
* Single-lane left turns are now designed for FYAs even when opposite a double left turn (this was not always the case, but is now)
* Most corridors have automatic walk signals during the day (~ 5am to 10pm)
* T-intersections generally use FYA signals that activate in the direction of an activated crosswalk
I will write more about other jurisdictions as I get the time.
(https://i.imgur.com/6eNoYnu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bEs8BWd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2WQ7KlQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A9A7ntm.jpg)
I really like how you generalized the town. I'm going to do that instead of my intersection by intersection case by case
iPhone
Review of traffic lights in Arlington, MA.
Old style:
These signals are either grey or have a yellow pole with forest green signals. Some have small updates but overall they're old. The green signals will have dotted LEDs, the red will have dialight ball LEDs, and the yellows are still incandecent. I'd say 50% or 60% of lights in my town look like this unfortunately.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4110356,-71.1425953,3a,33y,41.08h,86.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seKTZHqq1poRnaGWYJSmxUA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4195783,-71.1822258,3a,75y,142.28h,91.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL2EnmPMWqDn8xwQ7dKON4g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4168285,-71.1511606,3a,35.2y,216.48h,92.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEADREzfDHP6DomcALOrOlQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Then we have somewhat new lights:
These are all black and use LEDs. They only represent about 10% or 20% of the town's signals.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4229398,-71.1650645,3a,33.7y,118.26h,93.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4CNXSmOHs6cZq_xE1RsEoQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4261677,-71.172534,3a,89.6y,257.16h,92.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smhbDIR8JxnpfMoPYY8TH3Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4241485,-71.1831387,3a,25.5y,50.54h,89.02t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sd0k0NpgaIp98SRjl9jnZ9A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dd0k0NpgaIp98SRjl9jnZ9A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D137.82196%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
Then we have our brand new lights. Fit with reflective backplates and leds. Represents 30%-20% of lights. Quite good and more and more are being made.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4084528,-71.1460824,3a,60y,48.3h,88.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWgZC5RJX8-YKweX3gu6f3w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 - Creative cantilever location and good placement.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.405669,-71.1422215,3a,30y,326.25h,92.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFC9EHKqFOmEIug4a6XOiUQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 Extremely good placement including left sided and right sided mounts. (Also a BRT queue jump here (done poorly but still!).
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4147899,-71.1515321,3a,33.7y,137.96h,94.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss_1rlgLnqn_cI6-B5TEdaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (Should be a FYA!!)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.415577,-71.1536282,3a,33.9y,114.53h,91.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUMXA2JfWE4L7SSSFMRTQew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 I posted this before but this is a good light!
Some other examples that dont fit catagories:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4061679,-71.1634184,3a,32.5y,216.46h,92.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sW5Z8ndL03Rt-y55DxeEWwQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 Light has been replaced by MassDOT BUT they didn't install FYAs? urg.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4025445,-71.1570995,3a,35.4y,261.52h,95.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL2AEgqadEXDZwS-DsVvjPQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4146171,-71.133534,3a,33.5y,97.82h,96.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ_rJnEfmsDPAiZraQhqF8Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4189408,-71.156834,3a,34.4y,287.35h,92.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMfE5WQSrrLDwzQeD3bi9tA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Any questions about the lights or such (phasing, traffic area, effectiveness.) Let me know!
Thank you for your overview Amtrakprod.
A few comments/questions.
1) Mystic Valley Pkwy:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4146007,-71.133352,3a,75y,80.65h,89.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s91iAj042WuVj34TlomcxLw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
This signal seems to be for a mid-block pedestrian crossing, but it really services what appears to be a bike path. It is probably signalized normally, but IMO it's better for a mid-block crossing to be signaled with FR-Y-G. Somewhat of a hybrid between pelican and HAWK crossings. Essentially, signaled normally, but when the pedestrians see a "WALK" sign, you have a solid red - and when pedestrians see FDW, you have a flashing red. The idea is that there are probably not too many pedestrians/bikes crossing at the end of the cycle and cars should not have to wait forever for the cycle to clear, when pedestrians are no longer present. Come to a complete stop and then proceed if safe.
IMO, this should be done at every mid-block crossing, but especially at a mid-block crossing at a trail when most of the users are biking/jogging and will clear the intersection quickly.
Los Angeles does something similar at mid-block crossings, but the red light flashes the entire time of the red signal. My idea would have a solid red for a significant period, but not the whole red phase.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0487335,-118.2536344,3a,75y,37.11h,85.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spXnrGAG-EcVdX4Ej7r2dww!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
2) Summer/Mill
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4189408,-71.156834,3a,34.4y,270.06h,90.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMfE5WQSrrLDwzQeD3bi9tA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
You captured a very interesting shot that requires elaboration. The left signal, is that a protected-only phase? Yellow ball and yellow arrow always on at the same time? Leading or lagging?
On the right side, you have straight arrow and right arrow on at the same time. This is a weird combination. Does this mean that peds have to push the button to have a protected crossing and the right turn arrow won't be lit?
The newer installs in MA do seem very nice and put many of the other Northeastern states to shame with seemingly good placement.
Quote from: mrsman on August 30, 2020, 10:40:38 AM
Thank you for your overview Amtrakprod.
A few comments/questions.
1) Mystic Valley Pkwy:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4146007,-71.133352,3a,75y,80.65h,89.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s91iAj042WuVj34TlomcxLw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
This signal seems to be for a mid-block pedestrian crossing, but it really services what appears to be a bike path. It is probably signalized normally, but IMO it's better for a mid-block crossing to be signaled with FR-Y-G. Somewhat of a hybrid between pelican and HAWK crossings. Essentially, signaled normally, but when the pedestrians see a "WALK" sign, you have a solid red - and when pedestrians see FDW, you have a flashing red. The idea is that there are probably not too many pedestrians/bikes crossing at the end of the cycle and cars should not have to wait forever for the cycle to clear, when pedestrians are no longer present. Come to a complete stop and then proceed if safe.
IMO, this should be done at every mid-block crossing, but especially at a mid-block crossing at a trail when most of the users are biking/jogging and will clear the intersection quickly.
Los Angeles does something similar at mid-block crossings, but the red light flashes the entire time of the red signal. My idea would have a solid red for a significant period, but not the whole red phase.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0487335,-118.2536344,3a,75y,37.11h,85.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spXnrGAG-EcVdX4Ej7r2dww!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
2) Summer/Mill
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4189408,-71.156834,3a,34.4y,270.06h,90.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMfE5WQSrrLDwzQeD3bi9tA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
You captured a very interesting shot that requires elaboration. The left signal, is that a protected-only phase? Yellow ball and yellow arrow always on at the same time? Leading or lagging?
On the right side, you have straight arrow and right arrow on at the same time. This is a weird combination. Does this mean that peds have to push the button to have a protected crossing and the right turn arrow won't be lit?
The newer installs in MA do seem very nice and put many of the other Northeastern states to shame with seemingly good placement.
The first light is a mid block crosswalk signalized normally.
Mill and Summer as with most lights in this town give a fully protected walk phase, and it is a leading left turn there. Just a weird left turn arrow set up. Other lights in the town also show yellow ball + arrows. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/daa8ebaf6bc8484c1117c84ca723b2d8.jpg)
iPhone
Quote from: Amtrakprod on August 19, 2020, 07:00:35 PM
This seems fun!
Hope I don't forget anything lol.
Here is the major intersection in my town's downtown.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4154018,-71.1529622,3a,60y,316.68h,89.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soODperEsdhq427pfFAUNsA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
This is the busiest signal in town. It has major bike traffic (along with one of the busiest bike path corridors in the country), Buses, and tons of cars on both roads.
Pros: Reflective Backplates, Bike Signals, Protected turns against bikes and pedestrians (No yielding needed here!!).
Cons: Should backplates go on the pole mounted signals? https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4154947,-71.1534018,3a,30.9y,133.76h,92.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szQlFDq5fOk1eEtI1DvBI0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en What the hell is with the placement of this bike signal. No turn on red signs are great but no turn on red arrow signs are better. And really. A bike box. We could do better than this for such a major bike route.
Did I miss anything? Not sure. What do you all think.
I have video of this light: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySbK4gtvsYA&list=UUt1fuSF8cj9MbEvqEpibWYQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSYHH0XF_MI&list=UUt1fuSF8cj9MbEvqEpibWYQ&index=26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOypFIN4dIQ&list=UUt1fuSF8cj9MbEvqEpibWYQ&index=36
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbyiXHkV3OY&list=UUt1fuSF8cj9MbEvqEpibWYQ&index=29
That yellow arrow + yellow orb setup reminds me of this [now removed] signal in Puyallup, Wash (installed here originally (https://goo.gl/maps/GVpCYkBKab1gvsue6)), seen at the end of this video I made a while back. The idea was to have a repeater for the through signal, but only for the red and yellow phases. No green repeater.
https://youtu.be/bLg9ZOZIWx4
The current signals maintain their positions, but instead use a three arrow RYG setup with a blank bottom lens. I don't get it.
A walk-through of a couple ConnDOT installations, starting with the most recent:
T-intersection with opposite-turn doghouses on the primary road.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8306377,-72.5550946,3a,52.2y,4.45h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKp3XXbvVHTV7MWZqOnidNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8306377,-72.5550946,3a,52.2y,4.45h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKp3XXbvVHTV7MWZqOnidNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
The best of both worlds in terms of monitoring technology; has both IP video and loop detection. It took about a month for the new system to be calibrated. Left turn doghouse only activated upon detection. Only con here is that the right turn doghouse goes to red when directions switch. The old setup never did that, just went straight to the arrow.
Suburban mega traffic flow installation from around 1990.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8060456,-72.5546466,3a,75y,326.93h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shvMlJvJX2sTK6f9PGRXHTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8060456,-72.5546466,3a,75y,326.93h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shvMlJvJX2sTK6f9PGRXHTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Sadly, this is being replaced with an LPI setup. This is part of a network of signals controlling traffic in a major shopping area. I believe the loop detection is all interconnected, so the traffic volumes can get high but there's no intersection blocking or long waits at off-ramps. The seperated right turn lanes make this intersection stupid efficient. Only cons here is there's no video and that its going away.
Late 80s installation serving an underpowered intersection.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8380871,-72.4662792,3a,75y,10.3h,79.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syWjNw0I85VNHPB6NZ_x5Ow!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8380871,-72.4662792,3a,75y,10.3h,79.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syWjNw0I85VNHPB6NZ_x5Ow!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
Doghouse lefts on the primary (N/S) route, arrows activated by loop detection. Opposing roads have loop detection to switch phases late nite. This signal never goes to FYA/FRA. Biggest con is the lack of dedicated left turn lanes for the E/W routes. There's ramps to I-84 off of Bolton Rd. and it gets busy during peak times.
Unique installation from the early-mid 80s:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7086808,-72.7003104,3a,64.3y,211.83h,88.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTX12z0QLvjMq4NDGg3D0zw!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7086808,-72.7003104,3a,64.3y,211.83h,88.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTX12z0QLvjMq4NDGg3D0zw!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
I don't like these lights. They're timing seems arbitrary. Signals on left are 3M lenses, possibly the only 3Ms in the state, ones on the right are just light shielded. Personally, I'd widen the Berlin Turnpike to four lanes to the CT 175 E ramp; the first right lane would still exit to CT 175 W, and the second would be for 175 E On-ramp to Turnpike South gets a stop sign.
Most bizarre installation in the state:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.658327,-72.8669053,3a,75y,12.84h,104.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP-iO3y1lE-ZZ4XF5r2YU8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.658327,-72.8669053,3a,75y,12.84h,104.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP-iO3y1lE-ZZ4XF5r2YU8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Another 80s install. The only one with two-element signals that I know of for miles around. There's no left turn coming from the fork but there's also no NTOR sign. Why even have a signal here? My only guess is that it's synced to the one at the next intersection and prevents backups or something.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 01, 2020, 03:22:04 PM
A walk-through of a couple ConnDOT installations, starting with the most recent:
T-intersection with opposite-turn doghouses on the primary road.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8306377,-72.5550946,3a,52.2y,4.45h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKp3XXbvVHTV7MWZqOnidNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8306377,-72.5550946,3a,52.2y,4.45h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKp3XXbvVHTV7MWZqOnidNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
The best of both worlds in terms of monitoring technology; has both IP video and loop detection. It took about a month for the new system to be calibrated. Left turn doghouse only activated upon detection. Only con here is that the right turn doghouse goes to red when directions switch. The old setup never did that, just went straight to the arrow.
Suburban mega traffic flow installation from around 1990.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8060456,-72.5546466,3a,75y,326.93h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shvMlJvJX2sTK6f9PGRXHTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8060456,-72.5546466,3a,75y,326.93h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shvMlJvJX2sTK6f9PGRXHTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Sadly, this is being replaced with an LPI setup. This is part of a network of signals controlling traffic in a major shopping area. I believe the loop detection is all interconnected, so the traffic volumes can get high but there's no intersection blocking or long waits at off-ramps. The seperated right turn lanes make this intersection stupid efficient. Only cons here is there's no video and that its going away.
Late 80s installation serving an underpowered intersection.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8380871,-72.4662792,3a,75y,10.3h,79.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syWjNw0I85VNHPB6NZ_x5Ow!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8380871,-72.4662792,3a,75y,10.3h,79.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syWjNw0I85VNHPB6NZ_x5Ow!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
Doghouse lefts on the primary (N/S) route, arrows activated by loop detection. Opposing roads have loop detection to switch phases late nite. This signal never goes to FYA/FRA. Biggest con is the lack of dedicated left turn lanes for the E/W routes. There's ramps to I-84 off of Bolton Rd. and it gets busy during peak times.
Unique installation from the early-mid 80s:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7086808,-72.7003104,3a,64.3y,211.83h,88.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTX12z0QLvjMq4NDGg3D0zw!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7086808,-72.7003104,3a,64.3y,211.83h,88.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTX12z0QLvjMq4NDGg3D0zw!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
I don't like these lights. They're timing seems arbitrary. Signals on left are 3M lenses, possibly the only 3Ms in the state, ones on the right are just light shielded. Personally, I'd widen the Berlin Turnpike to four lanes to the CT 175 E ramp; the first right lane would still exit to CT 175 W, and the second would be for 175 E On-ramp to Turnpike South gets a stop sign.
Most bizarre installation in the state:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.658327,-72.8669053,3a,75y,12.84h,104.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP-iO3y1lE-ZZ4XF5r2YU8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.658327,-72.8669053,3a,75y,12.84h,104.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP-iO3y1lE-ZZ4XF5r2YU8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Another 80s install. The only one with two-element signals that I know of for miles around. There's no left turn coming from the fork but there's also no NTOR sign. Why even have a signal here? My only guess is that it's synced to the one at the next intersection and prevents backups or something.
CT has some seriously ancient signals, might be the oldest average age in the country (though OH can get ancient in places too).
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 01, 2020, 03:22:04 PM
T-intersection with opposite-turn doghouses on the primary road.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8306377,-72.5550946,3a,52.2y,4.45h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKp3XXbvVHTV7MWZqOnidNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8306377,-72.5550946,3a,52.2y,4.45h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKp3XXbvVHTV7MWZqOnidNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
The best of both worlds in terms of monitoring technology; has both IP video and loop detection. It took about a month for the new system to be calibrated. Left turn doghouse only activated upon detection. Only con here is that the right turn doghouse goes to red when directions switch. The old setup never did that, just went straight to the arrow.
I'm a little confused. When did the green arrow come on for the right turn? For that kind of installation, it's usually a good idea for the green arrow to start after a brief all-red delay, to allow oncoming traffic to finish their turn when the light changes to red. If the old intersection had a green arrow that activated before this point, that's kind of asking for an accident (since traffic would be turning right freely with the green arrow, as oncoming traffic is simultaneously attempting to finish their turn).
Quote from: STLmapboy on September 01, 2020, 03:26:52 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 01, 2020, 03:22:04 PM
A walk-through of a couple ConnDOT installations, starting with the most recent:
T-intersection with opposite-turn doghouses on the primary road.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8306377,-72.5550946,3a,52.2y,4.45h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKp3XXbvVHTV7MWZqOnidNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8306377,-72.5550946,3a,52.2y,4.45h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKp3XXbvVHTV7MWZqOnidNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
The best of both worlds in terms of monitoring technology; has both IP video and loop detection. It took about a month for the new system to be calibrated. Left turn doghouse only activated upon detection. Only con here is that the right turn doghouse goes to red when directions switch. The old setup never did that, just went straight to the arrow.
Suburban mega traffic flow installation from around 1990.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8060456,-72.5546466,3a,75y,326.93h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shvMlJvJX2sTK6f9PGRXHTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8060456,-72.5546466,3a,75y,326.93h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shvMlJvJX2sTK6f9PGRXHTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Sadly, this is being replaced with an LPI setup. This is part of a network of signals controlling traffic in a major shopping area. I believe the loop detection is all interconnected, so the traffic volumes can get high but there's no intersection blocking or long waits at off-ramps. The seperated right turn lanes make this intersection stupid efficient. Only cons here is there's no video and that its going away.
Late 80s installation serving an underpowered intersection.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8380871,-72.4662792,3a,75y,10.3h,79.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syWjNw0I85VNHPB6NZ_x5Ow!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8380871,-72.4662792,3a,75y,10.3h,79.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syWjNw0I85VNHPB6NZ_x5Ow!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
Doghouse lefts on the primary (N/S) route, arrows activated by loop detection. Opposing roads have loop detection to switch phases late nite. This signal never goes to FYA/FRA. Biggest con is the lack of dedicated left turn lanes for the E/W routes. There's ramps to I-84 off of Bolton Rd. and it gets busy during peak times.
Unique installation from the early-mid 80s:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7086808,-72.7003104,3a,64.3y,211.83h,88.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTX12z0QLvjMq4NDGg3D0zw!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7086808,-72.7003104,3a,64.3y,211.83h,88.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTX12z0QLvjMq4NDGg3D0zw!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
I don't like these lights. They're timing seems arbitrary. Signals on left are 3M lenses, possibly the only 3Ms in the state, ones on the right are just light shielded. Personally, I'd widen the Berlin Turnpike to four lanes to the CT 175 E ramp; the first right lane would still exit to CT 175 W, and the second would be for 175 E On-ramp to Turnpike South gets a stop sign.
Most bizarre installation in the state:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.658327,-72.8669053,3a,75y,12.84h,104.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP-iO3y1lE-ZZ4XF5r2YU8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.658327,-72.8669053,3a,75y,12.84h,104.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP-iO3y1lE-ZZ4XF5r2YU8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Another 80s install. The only one with two-element signals that I know of for miles around. There's no left turn coming from the fork but there's also no NTOR sign. Why even have a signal here? My only guess is that it's synced to the one at the next intersection and prevents backups or something.
CT has some seriously ancient signals, might be the oldest average age in the country (though OH can get ancient in places too).
Depends on what you consider ancient. A majority of our installs were redone in a giant wave in 90s and now a second wave is happening.
MA signals IMO are much older on average. They have a lot of stuff stuck in the 70s and 80s, and a lot more free-standing signals.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 01, 2020, 03:22:04 PM
A walk-through of a couple ConnDOT installations, starting with the most recent:
T-intersection with opposite-turn doghouses on the primary road.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8306377,-72.5550946,3a,52.2y,4.45h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKp3XXbvVHTV7MWZqOnidNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8306377,-72.5550946,3a,52.2y,4.45h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKp3XXbvVHTV7MWZqOnidNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
The best of both worlds in terms of monitoring technology; has both IP video and loop detection. It took about a month for the new system to be calibrated. Left turn doghouse only activated upon detection. Only con here is that the right turn doghouse goes to red when directions switch. The old setup never did that, just went straight to the arrow.
Suburban mega traffic flow installation from around 1990.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8060456,-72.5546466,3a,75y,326.93h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shvMlJvJX2sTK6f9PGRXHTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8060456,-72.5546466,3a,75y,326.93h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shvMlJvJX2sTK6f9PGRXHTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Sadly, this is being replaced with an LPI setup. This is part of a network of signals controlling traffic in a major shopping area. I believe the loop detection is all interconnected, so the traffic volumes can get high but there's no intersection blocking or long waits at off-ramps. The seperated right turn lanes make this intersection stupid efficient. Only cons here is there's no video and that its going away.
Late 80s installation serving an underpowered intersection.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8380871,-72.4662792,3a,75y,10.3h,79.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syWjNw0I85VNHPB6NZ_x5Ow!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8380871,-72.4662792,3a,75y,10.3h,79.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syWjNw0I85VNHPB6NZ_x5Ow!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
Doghouse lefts on the primary (N/S) route, arrows activated by loop detection. Opposing roads have loop detection to switch phases late nite. This signal never goes to FYA/FRA. Biggest con is the lack of dedicated left turn lanes for the E/W routes. There's ramps to I-84 off of Bolton Rd. and it gets busy during peak times.
Unique installation from the early-mid 80s:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7086808,-72.7003104,3a,64.3y,211.83h,88.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTX12z0QLvjMq4NDGg3D0zw!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7086808,-72.7003104,3a,64.3y,211.83h,88.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTX12z0QLvjMq4NDGg3D0zw!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
I don't like these lights. They're timing seems arbitrary. Signals on left are 3M lenses, possibly the only 3Ms in the state, ones on the right are just light shielded. Personally, I'd widen the Berlin Turnpike to four lanes to the CT 175 E ramp; the first right lane would still exit to CT 175 W, and the second would be for 175 E On-ramp to Turnpike South gets a stop sign.
Most bizarre installation in the state:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.658327,-72.8669053,3a,75y,12.84h,104.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP-iO3y1lE-ZZ4XF5r2YU8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.658327,-72.8669053,3a,75y,12.84h,104.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP-iO3y1lE-ZZ4XF5r2YU8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Another 80s install. The only one with two-element signals that I know of for miles around. There's no left turn coming from the fork but there's also no NTOR sign. Why even have a signal here? My only guess is that it's synced to the one at the next intersection and prevents backups or something.
I'll say my review:
T-intersection with opposite-turn doghouses on the primary road.
The signal placement is quite good. But I see far more negatives. First off no FYA, damn it CT, what is with y'all and the opposition to FYAs. Secondly where is the protected right turn signal for the side road? There is a right turn only lane, and a corresponding left turn permissive protected left signal. Not good CT, not good. Good to see the right turn doghouse doesn't give a second yellowtrap though.
Suburban mega traffic flow installation from around 1990.
This is a very CT light, in a bad way. Traffic lights painted different, but I do like the slip lanes.
Late 80s installation serving an underpowered intersection.
Besides the lack of FYAs, I like this set up. I'm a big fan of the 8 inch side street signals. That's my favourite thing about CT signals. I'm doubtful this is late 80s btw.
Unique installation from the early-mid 80s:
No way this is early to mid 80s. Likely early 2000s late 1990s.
It bothers me that both aren't of the same kind. Louvers are kinda crappy but whatever. Pretty unique light set up though.
Most bizarre installation in the state:
Woah! I assume the two colored signals are green and yellow, so at night when the light is in flash it flashes yellow. I see the CT standard louvered red ball left signal (not a fan, but better than PA with no louver). It is a strange set up, but it works!