Here's a question I have about those pedestrian signals with the countdown timers: what is the longest interval (i.e. the highest number) that you've seen on one of them?
Obviously, the best candidates for this would be on wide, busy roads. Here in the KC area, the longest interval I've seen was more than 30 seconds on Blue Valley Parkway at 119th in Overland Park. In addition, I believe the crossing on Pershing Road in front of Union Station, near downtown KC, is about a 25-30 second interval.
I've seen 60 seconds in DC, although it wasn't exactly complaint as the countdown included the walk signal.
Locally, many are around 25 seconds or so.
There are several signals in my area that have 35 or 36-second countdowns (there's a two or three second period for the walking man symbol, followed by the countdown that begins typically at 33 or 34 seconds). I'll second that I think I saw some signals as high as 60 (and I think even a of couple 70-second signals) in DC near the National Mall when I was there last year.
DC wins this. I've seen 66, but I know there is worse. I'd love to see what they do for over 100 lmfao
iPhone
I didn't realize that the 60-second numbers you see in DC are exclusive to DC. I thought that many cities would have had them.
I've also seen one stuck on 3, one stuck on 15, and one that starts with a random number between 24 and 30, but the walk time is constant; it adds or subtracts a few seconds when it goes to the flashing red at 5. (All of these were in DC.)
Nothing longer than 60 for sure.
Quote from: 1 on August 22, 2020, 05:37:05 AM
I didn't realize that the 60-second numbers you see in DC are exclusive to DC. I thought that many cities would have had them.
I've also seen one stuck on 3, one stuck on 15, and one that starts with a random number between 24 and 30, but the walk time is constant; it adds or subtracts a few seconds when it goes to the flashing red at 5. (All of these were in DC.)
The reason why you see longer ones on DC is because DC
cheats with regard to the countdown timers.
Normally, the countdown timer begins counting down when FDW starts. This is good meaning that it works with demand sensitive signals and only alerts you to the walk time ending. By design the FDW should be long enough for a ped walking at 3 ft/sec to make it across the street. The walk time in front of that is extra. In most cases, the timer ends right before the yellow light is lit and/or when FDW turns to solid DW.
In DC with most signals on timers and not demand sensitive, the traffic timer knows the exact length of walk, FDW, and solid DW phases for each signal phase. Knowing this, the countdown timer includes the walk time as well. While that may be useful for peds overall, it is worse for traffic to allow for minor street to go green and walk when there is nobody there. And in relation to this thread, it is not a fair comparison, because DC's countdown timer is including more of the signal phase.
[It's like in some sport that won't allow a speed record to be recorded if there is too much wind helping you. You may be faster than others, but it isn't fair if you got wind assistance and someone else in a previous race did not.]
Quote from: mrsman on August 23, 2020, 08:13:25 AM
[It's like in some sport that won't allow a speed record to be recorded if there is too much wind helping you. You may be faster than others, but it isn't fair if you got wind assistance and someone else in a previous race did not.]
This is a bit off topic, but someone should make a device that you strap (or clip) to yourself when racing, and it tells you how many seconds to add or subtract due to wind.
I'm positive I've seen more than 80 seconds on a timer somewhere in DC, but I don't remember where it was. I don't believe I've ever seen 90 seconds.
Sorry for the bump but I found an example outside of the possibly improper DC countdowns above: US 1&9 and North Ave. in Elizabeth has a 53-second timer (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6776419,-74.1977238,3a,15y,133.48h,89.57t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbxI4XlG_2e1xgfvqUznpng!2e0!5s20191001T000000!7i16384!8i8192) for its 200-ft. crossing.
Longest I've personally seen was 44 seconds at the intersection of the South Marietta Loop and Powers Ferry.
Quote from: mrsman on August 23, 2020, 08:13:25 AM
Quote from: 1 on August 22, 2020, 05:37:05 AM
I didn't realize that the 60-second numbers you see in DC are exclusive to DC. I thought that many cities would have had them.
I've also seen one stuck on 3, one stuck on 15, and one that starts with a random number between 24 and 30, but the walk time is constant; it adds or subtracts a few seconds when it goes to the flashing red at 5. (All of these were in DC.)
The reason why you see longer ones on DC is because DC cheats with regard to the countdown timers.
Normally, the countdown timer begins counting down when FDW starts. This is good meaning that it works with demand sensitive signals and only alerts you to the walk time ending. By design the FDW should be long enough for a ped walking at 3 ft/sec to make it across the street. The walk time in front of that is extra. In most cases, the timer ends right before the yellow light is lit and/or when FDW turns to solid DW.
In DC with most signals on timers and not demand sensitive, the traffic timer knows the exact length of walk, FDW, and solid DW phases for each signal phase. Knowing this, the countdown timer includes the walk time as well. While that may be useful for peds overall, it is worse for traffic to allow for minor street to go green and walk when there is nobody there. And in relation to this thread, it is not a fair comparison, because DC's countdown timer is including more of the signal phase.
I wouldn't say they're cheating. Even the demand based systems have minimums and maximums on the green time for each phase, and many of them even calculate the said green time for the straight phase before it even starts if its on the major roads. For some reason, these systems can never get that information over to the pedestrian part of the signal, which is part of what leads to really low compliance rates for the pedestrian signals. So many areas, even with heavy pedestrian traffic, just set them to the minimum walk time and minimum FDW time and thats it. For example, this crosswalk at the UCF campus: https://www.google.com/maps/@28.6063178,-81.1985867,3a,40.8y,111.13h,85.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZ1Ql4hHJ4b0YoAXIH3yNDA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
It has a FDW of just 9 seconds. The Walk time is 5 seconds, making a total of 14 seconds. The matching crosswalk on the opposite side of the street has a FDW of about 15 seconds if I remember right, making its total 20 seconds, and there's a left turn signal only in that direction. This means that the crosswalk thats configured to only have 14 total seconds will always have more time then the opposing one that is 20 seconds minimum. Then you add in the minimum green times during the day, which is at least 2 minutes, plus that left turn time, and you're looking at a walk signal that reads don't walk while it has a parallel green light for like 90% of the time its green for literally no reason, the timer wouldn't even let the light change.... Needless to say, from my estimates, the compliance rate of this signal is clearly under 1% since its also push button activated. I think it'd significantly improve compliance rates if more places cheated like DC and programmed the timings for the crosswalks to at least the minimum demand time, if its not technically feasible to have it adjust to the actual demand time of that cycle.
I saw 100 in the western areas of Shanghai once.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 23, 2020, 09:13:55 AM
I'm positive I've seen more than 80 seconds on a timer somewhere in DC, but I don't remember where it was. I don't believe I've ever seen 90 seconds.
I'm not sure if it's this one that you saw, but I recently saw the north crosswalk at Constitution and First NE start at
89 seconds during an off-peak time.
Shame they couldn't add one more.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.892038,-77.0060854,3a,41.9y,74.67h,88.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1hWCJILPsfCN2-IdOTaHPg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D1hWCJILPsfCN2-IdOTaHPg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D61.439175%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
I've seen 45 seconds at some intersections in Manhattan.
Quote from: Caps81943 on December 30, 2020, 11:34:59 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 23, 2020, 09:13:55 AM
I'm positive I've seen more than 80 seconds on a timer somewhere in DC, but I don't remember where it was. I don't believe I've ever seen 90 seconds.
I'm not sure if it's this one that you saw, but I recently saw the north crosswalk at Constitution and First NE start at 89 seconds during an off-peak time.
Shame they couldn't add one more.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.892038,-77.0060854,3a,41.9y,74.67h,88.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1hWCJILPsfCN2-IdOTaHPg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D1hWCJILPsfCN2-IdOTaHPg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D61.439175%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
Unlikely to see higher than that. I think 120 seconds tends to be the maximum cycle time for DC signals, so an 89 second crossing seems to correspond with a 90-30 split (with a few seconds taken off from both sides for all red phase). If you observed 89 seconds, the cross street is probably 27 seconds or so and likely a full cycle is exactly 120 seconds.
About 35 to 40 seconds
I've seen a 44 second one (starting from when the hand starts to flash, didn't count how long it was in "walk" mode) in an intersection where they were building an LRT line in the median (Line 5 Eglinton for those who are interested) - since it was construction they couldn't make it a two-phase crossing (where you have to wait in the middle for the next cycle if you don't make it) so I guess that's why it was so long.
do some ped signals have some sort of bluetooth thing in them?
i twirl an ad sign on various corners. if i set my phone in the wrong spot, the music will cut out and i'll hear 'ticking' sounds, or a voice saying 'walk light is on' or something like that.
how is it taking over the bluetooth connection to my phone? i don't see anything visible to the phone except the devices it already knows about...
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 02, 2021, 08:21:46 AM
do some ped signals have some sort of bluetooth thing in them?
i twirl an ad sign on various corners. if i set my phone in the wrong spot, the music will cut out and i'll hear 'ticking' sounds, or a voice saying 'walk light is on' or something like that.
how is it taking over the bluetooth connection to my phone? i don't see anything visible to the phone except the devices it already knows about...
Some of them do, here's a demo video of that tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Thqk2rOb4&t=0s
Quote from: index on April 02, 2021, 08:37:07 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 02, 2021, 08:21:46 AM
do some ped signals have some sort of bluetooth thing in them?
i twirl an ad sign on various corners. if i set my phone in the wrong spot, the music will cut out and i'll hear 'ticking' sounds, or a voice saying 'walk light is on' or something like that.
how is it taking over the bluetooth connection to my phone? i don't see anything visible to the phone except the devices it already knows about...
Some of them do, here's a demo video of that tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Thqk2rOb4&t=0s
i have no apps installed like this. it was a little disconcerting. if i look in the bluetooth settings, all i see is the headset (active) and a few other devices that connect to the phone when i'm at home. there's nothing that indicates a traffic signal. and i don't leave my bluetooth 'discoverable' unless i'm trying to pair something. is there some sort of 'force-connect' mode or something?
i mean, its a good idea for those who need this sort of thing, but for those who don't... its a little big-brothery
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 02, 2021, 11:35:46 AM
Quote from: index on April 02, 2021, 08:37:07 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 02, 2021, 08:21:46 AM
do some ped signals have some sort of bluetooth thing in them?
i twirl an ad sign on various corners. if i set my phone in the wrong spot, the music will cut out and i'll hear 'ticking' sounds, or a voice saying 'walk light is on' or something like that.
how is it taking over the bluetooth connection to my phone? i don't see anything visible to the phone except the devices it already knows about...
Some of them do, here's a demo video of that tech:
i have no apps installed like this. it was a little disconcerting. if i look in the bluetooth settings, all i see is the headset (active) and a few other devices that connect to the phone when i'm at home. there's nothing that indicates a traffic signal. and i don't leave my bluetooth 'discoverable' unless i'm trying to pair something. is there some sort of 'force-connect' mode or something?
i mean, its a good idea for those who need this sort of thing, but for those who don't... its a little big-brothery
It probably just puts it out on everything or something in a way that it overrides the signal you have to your own stuff, even if you have no app. But that video does however show how it *should* work and what it is. Just weird interference, nothing to really be worried about.
In fact, that reminds me of a story I had read a while ago, this isn't the exact one, but there was a radio transmitter so strong it would flicker people's lights, and people heard the signal through mattress springs and bed frames:
https://radioworks.co.uk/blog-a-radio-transmitter-that-was-so-powerful-people-heard-it-in-mattress-coils-and-other-remarkable-radio-facts/
https://jeff560.tripod.com/wlw.html
Quote from: index on April 02, 2021, 03:15:40 PM
In fact, that reminds me of a story I had read a while ago, this isn't the exact one, but there was a radio transmitter so strong it would flicker people's lights, and people heard the signal through mattress springs and bed frames:
both rather interesting, thank you. i live not far from the WWV towers, supposedly you can go into the field there with a fluorescent tube and it will glow from all the rf. not confirmed by me.
Do non-compliant indications count? I've seen 60 seconds on a countdown timer but that was during the "Walk" phase, while the MUTCD specifies that the countdown should only be shown during the "flashing Dont Walk" phase.
Quote from: ran4sh on April 03, 2021, 12:57:45 PM
Do non-compliant indications count? I've seen 60 seconds on a countdown timer but that was during the "Walk" phase, while the MUTCD specifies that the countdown should only be shown during the "flashing Dont Walk" phase.
OP author chiming in here. For the purposes of this post, I consider any countdown pedestrian signal to count (pun intended), whether it starts the countdown during the "Walk" phase or not.
Along Seawall Blvd in Galveston (TX), I recently saw one that was at least 70 seconds.