I found this map online but I can't recall where. There are many strange US highway routings, including US 37, 43, 59, 73, and 143. This block of text appears at the bottom right hand corner of the map:
QuoteON THIS MAP IS SHOWN THE NEW FEDERAL HIGHWAY NUMBERING AUTHORIZED BY THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF STATE HIGHWAY OFFICIALS, NOVEMBER, 1934.
Were these actual proposals or did somebody drink too much Bevo and screwed the map up really badly? This map is fascinating and has many surprises. There is a link to a larger version below the map.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50047162897_4c90cf9bfd_b.jpg)
Here's a link to a 6144×4215 version. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/watuzi/50047162897/sizes/6k/)
Two things for Indiana that I noticed:
I never knew that between Logansport and Kokomo, US 35 used to run along what is now IN 29 and IN 22.
I can't for the life of me figure out how US 150 went from Shoals to Terre Haute.
US 395 is shown following CA 138 from Lancaster East to Cajon Pass.
One oddity at the Colorado Utah border. US 160 is shown appropriately as having replaced US 450 west of I-25 in Colorado, and is still shown as US 450 in Utah up to Crescent, Utah. But I looked at USEnds website (https://www.usends.com/ucolo.html), and there was a period between 1934 and 1939 where they ended at each other at the state line. Strange!
Michigan appears to be accurate. Although it seems like maybe there is some curvature put in where the routes really have more corners. For example, US-10 from Saginaw to Clare is not just a gentle arc.
-- US-23 follows some of the inland routings; now it is closer to the Lake Huron shore
-- US-27 seems to have a bend around the east side of Houghton Lake; it was later routed to the west side
-- US-131 has since been extended to the north to end in Petosky, rather than south of Traverse City
Very interesting map. I suspect the oddities shown here were US route system changes that were actually authorized by AASHO in 1934, but not all of them were adopted by the states. In other words, the mapmaker jumped the gun by showing anticipated changes before they were implemented (and some of them never were). A couple reasons why I think this:
*We know that US 43 and 143 north of Nashville were part of AASHO's attempt to get rid of the split routes in US 31 and US 41. But we also know that neither KY nor TN ever implemented those designations. Same with the US 37 north of Chattanooga: it was never adopted by KY or TN (although much of that route eventually became US 127).
*US 285 is shown on its current corridor, south from Denver. But that wasn't actually implemented until 1936.
There are probably additional examples on this map. But I think this is a case similar to the late 1920s maps that published the 1925 proposed US route system, rather than waiting for the final system that was approved in 1926. But it's still interesting to see AASHO's attempted changes.
Quote from: usends on August 24, 2020, 11:12:21 AM
Very interesting map. I suspect the oddities shown here were US route system changes that were actually authorized by AASHO in 1934, but not all of them were adopted by the states. In other words, the mapmaker jumped the gun by showing anticipated changes before they were implemented (and some of them never were). A couple reasons why I think this:
*We know that US 43 and 143 north of Nashville were part of AASHO's attempt to get rid of the split routes in US 31 and US 41. But we also know that neither KY nor TN ever implemented those designations. Same with the US 37 north of Chattanooga: it was never adopted by KY or TN (although much of that route eventually became US 127).
*US 285 is shown on its current corridor, south from Denver. But that wasn't actually implemented until 1936.
There are probably additional examples on this map. But I think this is a case similar to the late 1920s maps that published the 1925 proposed US route system, rather than waiting for the final system that was approved in 1926. But it's still interesting to see AASHO's attempted changes.
That's certainly what happened when Rand McNally put our Junior Maps in 1925 which often show different numbers and highway alignments than what was approved in late 1926.
Quote from: usends on August 24, 2020, 11:12:21 AM
Very interesting map. I suspect the oddities shown here were US route system changes that were actually authorized by AASHO in 1934, but not all of them were adopted by the states. In other words, the mapmaker jumped the gun by showing anticipated changes before they were implemented (and some of them never were). A couple reasons why I think this:
*We know that US 43 and 143 north of Nashville were part of AASHO's attempt to get rid of the split routes in US 31 and US 41. But we also know that neither KY nor TN ever implemented those designations. Same with the US 37 north of Chattanooga: it was never adopted by KY or TN (although much of that route eventually became US 127).
*US 285 is shown on its current corridor, south from Denver. But that wasn't actually implemented until 1936.
There are probably additional examples on this map. But I think this is a case similar to the late 1920s maps that published the 1925 proposed US route system, rather than waiting for the final system that was approved in 1926. But it's still interesting to see AASHO's attempted changes.
Tennessee's official route log had the US 43 extension from the 1940s through 1962 when they stopped putting them out in annual reports.
I only have seen the 1951 Official TN map from this time period and US 41 ALT is what is shown.
Here are a couple scans of a different map (Jan 1939 Texaco) that shows more detail (including how US 150 was routed in indiana)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Fmapscans%2Fnew-us2.jpg&hash=22ad97686dd75fda5a0525a6baa25109bbdc7719)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2Fmapscans%2Fnew-us3.jpg&hash=f2b86e350430e1e21499a71bf456aaeddf82ce25)
Interesting to look at the additional maps. That one map from 1935 for Indiana I can't translate it to exact state/federal highways today for US 150. I always thought it was strange that they took 150 directly south for 60 miles from Terre Haute to Vincennes to then twin again for another 50 miles east. I also thought it might have been an initial route that quickly went out of favor since the Crane installation went in. I looked that up, and Crane wasn't authorized until 1941, and that map is from 1939. Who knows?
I do find it interesting how we are wrapped up in interstates these days, even to needing to add lanes to make it a 6 or 8 lane highway in some rural areas, when much less than 100 years ago, we didn't have those options even in many large cities outside of boulevards.
LOL at...
- US 73 routed down what is now US 69 to Lufkin and US 59 to Livingston, without reaching Houston. In reality, US 73 was greatly reduced in length.
- US 271 routed down what is now US 69 to Beaumont.
- US 83 and US 281 swapped between Pharr and Brownsville.
- US 70 replacing US 566 and all of the original US 180, including the Caballo-Lordsburg section that was downgraded to state route, instead of going through Las Cruces.
- US 87E West of US 87, and retaining US Route status instead of downgraded to state route. Also US 87E, US 87W and US 287 all on the same map (US 287 developed from the Southern part of US 87W as correctly depicted by the map, but it wasn't contemporaneous with both US 87E and US 87W).
Something interesting I noticed on this map: British Columbia's highways denoted with letters instead of numbers, unlike the rest of Canada.
Imagine that daily ferry between Key West and Habana still in operation...
Quote from: Bickendan on August 24, 2020, 08:04:50 PM
Imagine that daily ferry between Key West and Habana still in operation...
Where did they even depart from Key West at? I've never been able to track down where the ferry to Cuba was despite working in that City for three years.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2020, 09:06:45 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on August 24, 2020, 08:04:50 PM
Imagine that daily ferry between Key West and Habana still in operation...
Where did they even depart from Key West at? I've never been able to track down where the ferry to Cuba was despite working in that City for three years.
Stock Island - http://www.palmbeachpast.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/map_ferry.jpg
This picture suggests it was at the south end of Front St - https://www.newspapers.com/clip/50492178/the-miami-herald/ - that building is apparently still there.
Quote from: Mapmikey on August 25, 2020, 07:28:17 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2020, 09:06:45 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on August 24, 2020, 08:04:50 PM
Imagine that daily ferry between Key West and Habana still in operation...
Where did they even depart from Key West at? I've never been able to track down where the ferry to Cuba was despite working in that City for three years.
Stock Island - http://www.palmbeachpast.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/map_ferry.jpg
This picture suggests it was at the south end of Front St - https://www.newspapers.com/clip/50492178/the-miami-herald/ - that building is apparently still there.
That would make sense actually since there is a significant dredge in Safe Harbor. That whole facility is a water treatment plant of some kind now.
Interesting timing: today someone contacted me because he has a 1939 Texaco map that shows an extended US 187: twinned with US 30 between Rock Springs and Creston WY, then down into Colorado, terminating in Rifle. But that was never shown on any CDoT official maps. So to me this further suggests that during the 1930s AASHO may have been trying to make some refinements to the US route system on its own, but without buy-in from some of the state DOTs.
Interesting to see US 129 designated over the route of US 25W. I'm not exactly sure if a northern extension of the highway from Knoxville was ever entertained seriously.
Quote from: usends on August 25, 2020, 09:10:24 PM
Interesting timing: today someone contacted me because he has a 1939 Texaco map that shows an extended US 187: twinned with US 30 between Rock Springs and Creston WY, then down into Colorado, terminating in Rifle. But that was never shown on any CDoT official maps. So to me this further suggests that during the 1930s AASHO may have been trying to make some refinements to the US route system on its own, but without buy-in from some of the state DOTs.
Wyoming approved this 11/9/38 and suggested Colorado do the same.
See pdf pg. 28 at the 6th (last) pdf here - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kmrrq5P2bx3RQgkhu-JXDBWABUV85b_X
Quote from: Mapmikey on August 26, 2020, 08:41:02 AM
Quote from: usends on August 25, 2020, 09:10:24 PM
Interesting timing: today someone contacted me because he has a 1939 Texaco map that shows an extended US 187: twinned with US 30 between Rock Springs and Creston WY, then down into Colorado, terminating in Rifle. But that was never shown on any CDoT official maps. So to me this further suggests that during the 1930s AASHO may have been trying to make some refinements to the US route system on its own, but without buy-in from some of the state DOTs.
Wyoming approved this 11/9/38 and suggested Colorado do the same.
See pdf pg. 28 at the 6th (last) pdf here - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kmrrq5P2bx3RQgkhu-JXDBWABUV85b_X
Good resource, thanks. And interestingly I do see that the 1939 Wyoming official map showed 187 down to the Colorado line. But it wasn't on 1940 or any year after that. Maybe CDoT refused, so WYDoT gave up on the idea.
Somewhere -- who knows where, it's been misplaced in three moves over the years -- I have a Kentucky-Tennessee map that shows all those numbers (37, 129, etc.).
Quote from: hbelkins on August 26, 2020, 02:40:57 PM
Somewhere -- who knows where, it's been misplaced in three moves over the years -- I have a Kentucky-Tennessee map that shows all those numbers (37, 129, etc.).
Are you convinced that the US 241 sign was posted in Kentucky? What would the KY version of the sign look like?
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 24, 2020, 07:54:11 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 26, 2020, 02:40:57 PM
Somewhere -- who knows where, it's been misplaced in three moves over the years -- I have a Kentucky-Tennessee map that shows all those numbers (37, 129, etc.).
Are you convinced that the US 241 sign was posted in Kentucky? What would the KY version of the sign look like?
1929 Kentucky Biennual report suggests if US 241 was finished then it was posted. See report page 124 at https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015021032266&view=1up&seq=138
Pg. 61 of the same report has a picture of a US 60 shield to give an idea how it would've been posted. I have not run across a picture of a US 241 shield in Kentucky.
The Jan 1928 map (no idea why KYTC calls this the 1929 map on their website) shows US 241 fully paved on a portion so it may have been posted
https://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Maps/1929KYF.pdf
Looks right for Illinois 30 did follow what is now the 88 corridor. Also what looks like an extension to Carbondale would be 67 using the old state bond issue 3 corridor.
I can't tell if it's 32 or 34 north of 6 the 80 corridor.
There is one anomaly of a road that looks like now Illinois 40 or 26 on it.
We already knew Tennessee refused to sign US 270 because they wanted US 70S badly, and therefore no US 270 existed until the current route was designated in 1930. However judging by the map on the OP it appears by the mid-30s TN 26 was designated as the third US 70 route between Nashville and Crossville (strangely they didn't go with US 70C). And the map shows all three routes as US 70! However the 1939 map shows that TN 26 wasn't yet signed as US 70.
Also, per what it has been said it appears (contrary to popular belief) Tennessee accepted the changes proposed by AASHO but Kentucky rejected them, hence why several split routes still exist to this day. US 45E/45W may have barely entered Kentucky, but it's now entirely in Tennessee, so they could change that to US 45 and Alt US 45 as proposed back then without waiting for their neighbors to go along.
On US-50 stopped in eastern Nevada according to the map.
Quote from: bing101 on November 25, 2020, 04:28:04 PM
On US-50 stopped in eastern Nevada according to the map.
Swung north to US 40 since it wasn't built yet east of Ely.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 25, 2020, 04:07:40 PM
We already knew Tennessee refused to sign US 270 because they wanted US 70S badly, and therefore no US 270 existed until the current route was designated in 1930. However judging by the map on the OP it appears by the mid-30s TN 26 was designated as the third US 70 route between Nashville and Crossville (strangely they didn't go with US 70C). And the map shows all three routes as US 70! However the 1939 map shows that TN 26 wasn't yet signed as US 70.
Also, per what it has been said it appears (contrary to popular belief) Tennessee accepted the changes proposed by AASHO but Kentucky rejected them, hence why several split routes still exist to this day. US 45E/45W may have barely entered Kentucky, but it's now entirely in Tennessee, so they could change that to US 45 and Alt US 45 as proposed back then without waiting for their neighbors to go along.
Tennessee hadn't signed any of their US routes when they unilaterally renumbered 241, 270 and 511 (no later than Feb 1928). They got approval from AASHO for 270 and 511's changes in June 1929 after they chastised Tennessee for doing that in Jan 1929. They did not grant 241 right away because nobody had asked Kentucky. I did not find a memo with Kentucky explicitly agreeing, but their 1929 Official map does have it as 41E.
The 3 US 70s is a complete error by the mapmaker. Tennessee explicitly requested in 1934 that US 70N be moved to TN 24 and TN 26 between Lebanon and Sparta would no longer be a US route.
Tennessee IMO missed an opportunity to get rid of US 45W when they requested the US route corridor from Pascagoula MS to Jackson TN in 1955. Had they suggest US 47 (which fit the grid) and suggested it could replace US 45W too, maybe AASHO would've approved it.
I stand corrected. US 70N originally went from Lebanon to Sparta (and the Sparta-Crossville section was "plain" US 70 like it's now), but was rerouted in 1934 (and thus US 270 US 70S was extended to Crossville as well). The triple split didn't came until the 60s or 70s.
Do you think that US 70 should be redesigned as US 70C between Lebanon and Crossville?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 25, 2020, 04:38:26 PM
Quote from: bing101 on November 25, 2020, 04:28:04 PM
On US-50 stopped in eastern Nevada according to the map.
Swung north to US 40 since it wasn't built yet east of Ely.
The original US 50 definition did have a discontinuity between Ely and Thistle, Utah because it turned out the road from Ely across the desert to Delta was in terrible condition. I believe it took a few years for the routing via Wendover and Salt Lake City to be established as part of US 50. And even after 50 was eventually moved to what is now US 6 through eastern Nevada and western Utah, the old route through Salt Lake stayed around as Alt 50 well into the 1970s.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 26, 2020, 11:57:00 AM
Do you think that US 70 should be redesigned as US 70C between Lebanon and Crossville?
I'd be in favor of decommissioning current US 70N, as it parallels I-40 and has basically been replaced by it, and renumbering existing US 70 as US 70N. Or do what's done west of Nashville and have US 70 and US 70A.