AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: JoePCool14 on September 04, 2020, 10:29:36 PM

Poll
Question: Should cardinal directions go before or after the shield on a BGS?
Option 1: Before
Option 2: After
Option 3: Either Way
Title: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: JoePCool14 on September 04, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
Really simple question for everyone: do you prefer the cardinal direction be placed before (to the left) or after (to the right) of a shield on a BGS? For the sake of this poll, if there is an MUTCD ruling on this topic, I'm ignoring it. Though if there is one, I am curious about it.

I might be blown away by the results of this. I might be missing something here, but whatever, it's just an opinion poll. Who doesn't love giving their opinion on something? :-P

Here's where the idea originated for this. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=27600.msg2531208#msg2531208)
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: STLmapboy on September 04, 2020, 11:26:17 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 04, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
Really simple question for everyone: do you prefer the cardinal direction be placed before (to the left) or after (to the right) of a shield on a BGS? For the sake of this poll, if there is an MUTCD ruling on this topic, I'm ignoring it. Though if there is one, I am curious about it.

I might be blown away by the results of this. I might be missing something here, but whatever, it's just an opinion poll. Who doesn't love giving their opinion on something? :-P

Here's where the idea originated for this. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=27600.msg2531208#msg2531208)

To the right:
270  NORTH
Chicago
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: ozarkman417 on September 04, 2020, 11:35:01 PM
At some junctions with a route that proceeds both ways, the shields are adjacent to each other, so the sign assembly has it both ways. One direction is to the left of the shield, the other to the right.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: Ben114 on September 04, 2020, 11:38:52 PM
If it's just one route involved, then put it on the right (https://goo.gl/maps/ELBqN1aZ1TsDmtyn8).

But when multiple are involved, then put it on top (https://goo.gl/maps/9ZxZhEfoxrVhCbkV6).
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: JoePCool14 on September 05, 2020, 06:34:15 AM
Quote from: Ben114 on September 04, 2020, 11:38:52 PM
If it's just one route involved, then put it on the right (https://goo.gl/maps/ELBqN1aZ1TsDmtyn8).

But when multiple are involved, then put it on top (https://goo.gl/maps/9ZxZhEfoxrVhCbkV6).

What made me confused was that when you put the direction on the right, your mind reads it as "95 South". However, in most other cases, like reassurance markers or even your second example, when you put the direction above the shield your mind reads as "South 95". I'm probably overthinking things, but it seems inconsistent to me.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: hbelkins on September 05, 2020, 08:56:18 PM
Direction first, then route marker.

NORTH 95

Not 95 NORTH
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: Amtrakprod on September 05, 2020, 09:00:10 PM
Quote from: Ben114 on September 04, 2020, 11:38:52 PM
If it's just one route involved, then put it on the right (https://goo.gl/maps/ELBqN1aZ1TsDmtyn8).

But when multiple are involved, then put it on top (https://goo.gl/maps/9ZxZhEfoxrVhCbkV6).
Agreed


iPhone
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: 1995hoo on September 05, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
After–to the right. That's how normal people read route numbers and directions. If you're giving directions, you say "take I-95 north to Baltimore," not "take north I-95." The fact that reassurance shields have it on top is an unfortunate legacy of an old habit that stuck, that has no basis in how normal people read route numbers, and should not control usage on BGSs.

But I agree with the comment about putting it on top to avoid possible ambiguity if there's more than one route number on a BGS.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: roadman65 on September 05, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
Some put it on the left for left exits and on the right for right ramps.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: webny99 on September 05, 2020, 09:45:33 PM
Agree that the direction should be on top if there's multiple routes.

When there's just one route, I don't have a strong preference, although putting it on the left for a left turn/exit and on the right for a right turn/exit might be a helpful visual cue.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: roadman65 on September 05, 2020, 09:53:47 PM
On I-78 in Bedminster, NJ the pull through going WB is West 78 (On top) when there is space on both sides of the shield. There are three pull through total as the right lane defaults onto Exit 29 for I-287, so it's a friendly reminder to keep left to stay on I-78 West.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: roadfro on September 06, 2020, 05:30:13 PM
I'm used to the direction being on the right (so after the shield), since that is the method used in my home state of Nevada.

It is very rare to see the cardinal direction be on the left on a Nevada BGS. I can only think of one example: the I-215 EB ramp to I-515/US 93/US 95 (https://goo.gl/maps/6pkpU9apC4prA4va6), and that one was replaced when I-515 south of here was resigned as I-11 (https://goo.gl/maps/e4iV2k64ySQdHh6t8).

Route overlaps on Nevada's urban freeways are mostly all the same cardinal direction, so NDOT even signs these with cardinal directions on the right as can be seen in the above examples. However, there is a short amount of overlap in Carson City where two different directions apply along I-580/US 395 (north/south) with overlapping US 50 (east/west), and still they keep the cardinals on the right for each set they apply to (https://goo.gl/maps/wjZWxLLZfnLFTx2w5) (likely due to NDOT keeping most signs within a certain height limit).
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: ilpt4u on September 08, 2020, 04:05:05 AM
An example of all 3 placements, on one BGS Gantry across 3 signs:
https://goo.gl/maps/NaM73vNifx4W82aM8
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: JoePCool14 on September 08, 2020, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on September 08, 2020, 04:05:05 AM
An example of all 3 placements, on one BGS Gantry across 3 signs:
https://goo.gl/maps/NaM73vNifx4W82aM8

That is actually a really good example to compare them all. When looking, it's really hard to say which way I honestly prefer it.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: webny99 on September 08, 2020, 08:43:08 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 08, 2020, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on September 08, 2020, 04:05:05 AM
An example of all 3 placements, on one BGS Gantry across 3 signs:
https://goo.gl/maps/NaM73vNifx4W82aM8
That is actually a really good example to compare them all. When looking, it's really hard to say which way I honestly prefer it.

Since there's a left exit, a right exit, and a pull-through, I would say all three signs are perfectly appropriate and fine as-is.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: jeffandnicole on September 08, 2020, 09:05:18 AM
Quote from: webny99 on September 08, 2020, 08:43:08 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 08, 2020, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on September 08, 2020, 04:05:05 AM
An example of all 3 placements, on one BGS Gantry across 3 signs:
https://goo.gl/maps/NaM73vNifx4W82aM8
That is actually a really good example to compare them all. When looking, it's really hard to say which way I honestly prefer it.

Since there's a left exit, a right exit, and a pull-through, I would say all three signs are perfectly appropriate and fine as-is.

Compare it to this one then...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wJgJiS8FMcUvAvZH9

Does the location of the cardinal direction and shield mess you up on which side of the road the exit is on?
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: JoePCool14 on September 08, 2020, 10:25:41 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 08, 2020, 09:05:18 AM
Quote from: webny99 on September 08, 2020, 08:43:08 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 08, 2020, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on September 08, 2020, 04:05:05 AM
An example of all 3 placements, on one BGS Gantry across 3 signs:
https://goo.gl/maps/NaM73vNifx4W82aM8
That is actually a really good example to compare them all. When looking, it's really hard to say which way I honestly prefer it.

Since there's a left exit, a right exit, and a pull-through, I would say all three signs are perfectly appropriate and fine as-is.

Compare it to this one then...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wJgJiS8FMcUvAvZH9

Does the location of the cardinal direction and shield mess you up on which side of the road the exit is on?

On an unrelated note... (https://goo.gl/maps/YV6eBMyC5sb8mKMj6)
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: webny99 on September 08, 2020, 12:11:09 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 08, 2020, 09:05:18 AM
Quote from: webny99 on September 08, 2020, 08:43:08 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 08, 2020, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on September 08, 2020, 04:05:05 AM
An example of all 3 placements, on one BGS Gantry across 3 signs:
https://goo.gl/maps/NaM73vNifx4W82aM8
That is actually a really good example to compare them all. When looking, it's really hard to say which way I honestly prefer it.

Since there's a left exit, a right exit, and a pull-through, I would say all three signs are perfectly appropriate and fine as-is.

Compare it to this one then...
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wJgJiS8FMcUvAvZH9
Does the location of the cardinal direction and shield mess you up on which side of the road the exit is on?

That one's fine. I would prefer the "SOUTH" for the I-295 left exit was on the left, but it doesn't really bother me.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: JCinSummerfield on September 08, 2020, 02:05:59 PM
I always prefer on top.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: CtrlAltDel on September 08, 2020, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 05, 2020, 09:06:13 PM
After–to the right. That's how normal people read route numbers and directions. If you're giving directions, you say "take I-95 north to Baltimore," not "take north I-95."

This is exactly how I feel about dollar signs. We should write 95$ instead of $95.

Oddly enough, I don't feel the same about route signs. Put the direction on top or to the left, unless you're doing something like: NORTH {95} SOUTH.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: jmacswimmer on September 08, 2020, 05:04:28 PM
Normally I like the direction to the right of the shield, but I kind of like the mirror-style look where I-78 splits off I-81 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4246922,-76.5243084,3a,41.3y,75.33h,92.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1si1YioNx2DcQ4NIUzw37IMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: PHLBOS on September 10, 2020, 05:47:44 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on September 08, 2020, 05:04:28 PM
Normally I like the direction to the right of the shield, but I kind of like the mirror-style look where I-78 splits off I-81 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4246922,-76.5243084,3a,41.3y,75.33h,92.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1si1YioNx2DcQ4NIUzw37IMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Such is due to preceding diagrammatic signs (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4234111,-76.5301714,3a,75y,82.72h,81.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2v4cgTObqm1HeXoiGERtxw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en) having such.

In general, for horizontal layouts I prefer the direction cardinal placed to the right of the route shield regardless of the direction of the exit.

For vertical layouts, I prefer the cardinal being placed above the shield.  With such in mind, this layout of the pull-through sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9025862,-75.1507427,3a,75y,17.6h,78.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szHYb3BcBSSnnzXSmNBRZ8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) is my least favorite.
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: STLmapboy on September 10, 2020, 08:03:51 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on September 08, 2020, 04:05:05 AM
An example of all 3 placements, on one BGS Gantry across 3 signs:
https://goo.gl/maps/NaM73vNifx4W82aM8
That's my state :clap:
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: ilpt4u on September 10, 2020, 09:44:00 PM
Quote from: STLmapboy on September 10, 2020, 08:03:51 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on September 08, 2020, 04:05:05 AM
An example of all 3 placements, on one BGS Gantry across 3 signs:
https://goo.gl/maps/NaM73vNifx4W82aM8
That's my state :clap:
I just drove up to Lambert and flew out of town earlier today, tho I was on 70 WB to get to the airport. I'll pass under that gantry on the trip home the flip side of the weekend
Title: Re: Cardinal Directions: Before or After the Shield?
Post by: kphoger on September 11, 2020, 09:38:37 AM
Horizontal:  After
Vertical:  Below

This is, as has been mentioned, how we say it to ourselves in the absence of signs, so it should be how they're arranged on the sign.

Quote from: PHLBOS on September 10, 2020, 05:47:44 PM
For vertical layouts, I prefer the cardinal being placed above the shield.  With such in mind, this layout of the pull-through sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9025862,-75.1507427,3a,75y,17.6h,78.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szHYb3BcBSSnnzXSmNBRZ8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) is my least favorite.

See, to me, that assembly says...
  [95 NORTH] [76 EAST]
...which is exactly what it should say.

With your preference, the assembly would say...
  [NORTH 95 ] [76 EAST]
...which doesn't seem right to me.