Thanks to Kurumi I have learned about CT's secret routes. How many other states have these secret routes?
What's your definition of a secret route? I would imagine the X Routes in Arizona or the weird 900 series in Utah would be what you're after.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 18, 2020, 05:50:54 PM
What's your definition of a secret route? I would imagine the X Routes in Arizona or the weird 900 series in Utah would be what you're after.
Unsigned Routes
A number of Kentucky's state routes are unsigned, particularly four-digit routes within city limits that are cataloged as supplemental routes.
West Virginia has a handful of unsigned primary routes, such as Alt. WV 72.
All Interstates and US routes in Georgia have a hidden state designation, if that counts. I-75, for example, is also GA-401.
Also, there's something weird going on with I-10 in Los Angeles. I couldn't tell for sure what it is, though.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 18, 2020, 06:30:17 PM
All Interstates and US routes in Georgia have a hidden state designation, if that counts. I-75, for example, is also GA-401.
Almost. There is a segment of Signed US 25 Bus in Augusta that does not have an underlying state highway.
The reason for this is when GA 28 was moved onto its expressway they removed a small segment of US 25 Bus from the state highway system.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 18, 2020, 06:30:17 PM
All Interstates and US routes in Georgia have a hidden state designation, if that counts. I-75, for example, is also GA-401.
Also, there's something weird going on with I-10 in Los Angeles. I couldn't tell for sure what it is, though.
I-10 has an unsigned spur which connects to US 101. It was once part of US 60/70/99 and was briefly I-105.
Quote from: CapeCodder on September 18, 2020, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 18, 2020, 05:50:54 PM
What's your definition of a secret route? I would imagine the X Routes in Arizona or the weird 900 series in Utah would be what you're after.
Unsigned Routes
That's too broad, IMO. Many states have routes that are unsigned for one reason or another, but not because the DOT is trying to conceal their existence. Alaska has one route that the DOT tried to sign, but the signs kept disappearing due to intense local hostility to the route designation, and the DOT gave up on the signage. But the route still appears on the state highway map and other official maps.
US 666 had a massive sign theft problem before it was renumbered as US 491, but I'm not sure it was ever completely unsigned. Especially at its north end, where Utah DOT went to some trouble to make the 666 marker there hard to steal.
The very short section of Keystone Pkwy between I-465 and 96th St is unsigned IN 431.
Michigan has a number of unsigned connectors such as Exit 51 B (the Fisher Freeway stub to Gratiot for example) and a few unsigned highways (such as old M-14 and old M-21 not yet turned over to local control).
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 18, 2020, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 18, 2020, 06:30:17 PM
All Interstates and US routes in Georgia have a hidden state designation, if that counts. I-75, for example, is also GA-401.
Almost. There is a segment of Signed US 25 Bus in Augusta that does not have an underlying state highway.
The reason for this is when GA 28 was moved onto its expressway they removed a small segment of US 25 Bus from the state highway system.
I stand corrected.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 18, 2020, 06:50:07 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 18, 2020, 06:30:17 PM
All Interstates and US routes in Georgia have a hidden state designation, if that counts. I-75, for example, is also GA-401.
Also, there's something weird going on with I-10 in Los Angeles. I couldn't tell for sure what it is, though.
I-10 has an unsigned spur which connects to US 101. It was once part of US 60/70/99 and was briefly I-105.
Is this (https://www.google.com/maps/place/34%C2%B003'17.8%22N+118%C2%B013'13.3%22W/@34.054946,-118.2225453,696m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m17!1m10!4m9!1m3!2m2!1d-118.2558093!2d34.0295629!1m3!2m2!1d-118.2797!2d34.0768076!3e0!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d34.0549464!4d-118.2203624) it?
^^^
Yes, you have it.
Quote from: oscar on September 18, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Quote from: CapeCodder on September 18, 2020, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 18, 2020, 05:50:54 PM
What's your definition of a secret route? I would imagine the X Routes in Arizona or the weird 900 series in Utah would be what you're after.
Unsigned Routes
That's too broad, IMO. Many states have routes that are unsigned for one reason or another, but not because the DOT is trying to conceal their existence. Alaska has one route that the DOT tried to sign, but the signs kept disappearing due to intense local hostility to the route designation, and the DOT gave up on the signage. But the route still appears on the state highway map and other official maps.
US 666 had a massive sign theft problem before it was renumbered as US 491, but I'm not sure it was ever completely unsigned. Especially at its north end, where Utah DOT went to some trouble to make the 666 marker there hard to steal.
You're right; it is too broad. I basically mean if any other state has a system like CT's. I just suck at wording things.
NY's 900-series routes, except for the few goofs where they do get signed.
Quote from: CapeCodder on September 18, 2020, 03:48:21 PM
Thanks to Kurumi I have learned about CT's secret routes. How many other states have these secret routes?
California has I-305 and CASR-51 that are both signed as something else (US-50 and Bus-80, respectively). Are those secret?
Oklahoma has the unsigned I-444, and I think Alabama internally designates US and/or interstate highways as state routes.
Florida has a bunch of them including its turnpike designated as SR 91.
Illinois has a number of these. Outside of the Chicago District of IDOT they are occasionally given reference markers. (https://goo.gl/maps/geJyhL9QZi5c7gtm6) Inside the Chicago District of IDOT there are number of unmarked routes where they only way to tell whose road it is is by official maps.
Iowa may still have a few, though the purge back in 2003 wiped out a number of them.
If outer roads are excluded, Missouri generally does not have secret routes - at the least the road will get posted with one or two letters.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 18, 2020, 06:21:56 PM
West Virginia has a handful of unsigned primary routes, such as Alt. WV 72.
Additionally, West Virginia also has some unsigned state routes, albeit still functioning as secondary routes:
WV-372 (East Lynn to Branchland)
WV-401 (West Liberty to I-40 near Valley Grove)
WV-471 (Cairo to Cisco)
WV-473 (Glenville to Burnt House)
WV-507 (Former Alt US-22 in Weirton), marked as CR-507
WV-701 (Pine Grove to Wileyville)
WV-703 (Wadestown to Rivesville), with a notation that these segments were never signed
WV-707 (portion north of WV-279 FBI Drive in Clarksburg), formerly all of FBI Drive was signed as CR-707
WV-922 (Reedsville to US-119 near Halleck)
There are also some existing roads that have assigned future state route numbers, where in many cases the roads have not yet been upgraded. In a few cases, the route is not connected all the way through to the destinations. None of these are in the same category as "secret" state routes overlaid on US highways (and/or Interstate highways) in Georgia and Florida.
NJ has three I'm aware of: the NJ Turnpike south of where I-95 joins up (unsigned route 700),
The Garden State Parkway (unsigned route 444), and the Atlantic City Expressway (unsigned route 446).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 18, 2020, 05:50:54 PM
What's your definition of a secret route? I would imagine the X Routes in Arizona or the weird 900 series in Utah would be what you're after.
My definition is that an actual route number is assigned but for whatever reason said route number is not shown on maps or signed in the field. A few Michigan examples are I-296 in Grand Rapids, M-554 in Marquette, and M-331 in Kalamazoo (the last two before they were decommissioned and the roads turned back over to the cities).
As opposed to other routes under MDOT jurisdiction that have some internal designation (usually "Old M-xx" or "Old US-xx") but not an actual route number, such as Grand River Avenue in Farmington Hills and Farmington (Old BL I-96), Old US-223 in Monroe County, and the I-696 service drives in Macomb County (Old M-6).
Quote from: ozarkman417 on September 18, 2020, 10:06:13 PM...Alabama internally designates US and/or interstate highways as state routes.
AL 1 - US 431
AL 2 - US 72
AL 3 - US 31
AL 4 - US 78 (though sometimes appears alongside of it)
AL 6 - US 82
AL 7 - US 11
AL 8 - US 80
AL 12 - US 84
AL 15 - US 29
AL 16 - US 90
AL 38 - US 280
AL 42 - US 98
There's a few numbers which usually become invisible when they become concurrent with another US Route: 13, 17, 53, 74 which have independently-signed sections.
There's also 300, a short connector route in Fosters which nobody has yet seen in the field.
Quote from: J3ebrules on September 19, 2020, 02:23:02 AM
NJ has three I'm aware of: the NJ Turnpike south of where I-95 joins up (unsigned route 700),
The Garden State Parkway (unsigned route 444), and the Atlantic City Expressway (unsigned route 446).
And there would have been even more had it not been for those meddlin' traffic signal blades (59, 64) and enhanced mileposts (13, 167)!
There is the unsigned/un-Postmiled state highways in California like; CA 275 and CA 283. That said it doesn't take much digging to find the route definitions so I wouldn't exactly call them secret. The rogue highways are a little more interesting since those are local agencies signing State Highways on non-State maintained roads.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=27149.msg2512665#msg2512665
This thread is about secret route systems.
Quote from: 1 on September 19, 2020, 10:21:50 AM
This thread is about secret route systems.
Yeah and (I assume that was directed at me)? Regarding California you won't find those rogue shields on anything you can track down in Caltrans Postmile Tool, certainly not in the Legislative Route descriptions. There is no for someone in field to know that the likes of CA 275 and CA 283 even exist as State Highways unless they had some sort of knowledge of the State inventory. If we are going to use the spur of I-10 in downtown Los Angeles I would think the latter qualifies as well. I would certainly think unsigned "U" Postmile Routes would probably qualify as something of a secret.
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 18, 2020, 10:52:42 PM
Illinois has a number of these. Outside of the Chicago District of IDOT they are occasionally given reference markers. (https://goo.gl/maps/geJyhL9QZi5c7gtm6) Inside the Chicago District of IDOT there are number of unmarked routes where they only way to tell whose road it is is by official maps.
Completely bizarre that Google is calling it "State Route 522". There is no Route 522 in Illinois.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on September 19, 2020, 09:30:11 AM
Quote from: J3ebrules on September 19, 2020, 02:23:02 AM
NJ has three I'm aware of: the NJ Turnpike south of where I-95 joins up (unsigned route 700),
The Garden State Parkway (unsigned route 444), and the Atlantic City Expressway (unsigned route 446).
And there would have been even more had it not been for those meddlin' traffic signal blades (59, 64) and enhanced mileposts (13, 167)!
What about the Palisades Parkway?
You can deduce there are at least a couple of thousand miles of them in Illinois subtracting the signed route mileage from IDOT miles. They are in the multi year plans. Look the end of the signed routes in each district but before local projects which are muni or county projects of special IDOT funding.
Some are major. Illinois 255 started there as unnumbered Alton Bypass. Lebanon bypass is in the current.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 18, 2020, 11:01:28 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 18, 2020, 06:21:56 PM
West Virginia has a handful of unsigned primary routes, such as Alt. WV 72.
Additionally, West Virginia also has some unsigned state routes, albeit still functioning as secondary routes:
WV-372 (East Lynn to Branchland)
WV-401 (West Liberty to I-40 near Valley Grove)
WV-471 (Cairo to Cisco)
WV-473 (Glenville to Burnt House)
WV-507 (Former Alt US-22 in Weirton), marked as CR-507
WV-701 (Pine Grove to Wileyville)
WV-703 (Wadestown to Rivesville), with a notation that these segments were never signed
WV-707 (portion north of WV-279 FBI Drive in Clarksburg), formerly all of FBI Drive was signed as CR-707
WV-922 (Reedsville to US-119 near Halleck)
There are also some existing roads that have assigned future state route numbers, where in many cases the roads have not yet been upgraded. In a few cases, the route is not connected all the way through to the destinations. None of these are in the same category as "secret" state routes overlaid on US highways (and/or Interstate highways) in Georgia and Florida.
You mean I don't have the WV primary system clinched?
And source for these numbers? The official county maps I have seen don't show them as primary (square) routes, but as county (circle) routes.
Quote from: Brandon on September 19, 2020, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 18, 2020, 10:52:42 PM
Illinois has a number of these. Outside of the Chicago District of IDOT they are occasionally given reference markers. (https://goo.gl/maps/geJyhL9QZi5c7gtm6) Inside the Chicago District of IDOT there are number of unmarked routes where they only way to tell whose road it is is by official maps.
Completely bizarre that Google is calling it "State Route 522". There is no Route 522 in Illinois.
Google sometimes displays decommissioned routes as well as the secondary, hidden, secret ones. Not sure what the methodology is, but I guess it's only as good the information supplied combined with any overzealousness of its contributors...?
Quote from: formulanone on September 19, 2020, 06:08:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 19, 2020, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 18, 2020, 10:52:42 PM
Illinois has a number of these. Outside of the Chicago District of IDOT they are occasionally given reference markers. (https://goo.gl/maps/geJyhL9QZi5c7gtm6) Inside the Chicago District of IDOT there are number of unmarked routes where they only way to tell whose road it is is by official maps.
Completely bizarre that Google is calling it "State Route 522". There is no Route 522 in Illinois.
Google sometimes displays decommissioned routes as well as the secondary, hidden, secret ones. Not sure what the methodology is, but I guess it's only as good the information supplied combined with any overzealousness of its contributors...?
However, this is neither. The secret route is a four digit number, and 522 has never existed in Illinois.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 19, 2020, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 18, 2020, 11:01:28 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 18, 2020, 06:21:56 PM
West Virginia has a handful of unsigned primary routes, such as Alt. WV 72.
Additionally, West Virginia also has some unsigned state routes, albeit still functioning as secondary routes:
WV-372 (East Lynn to Branchland)
WV-401 (West Liberty to I-40 near Valley Grove)
WV-471 (Cairo to Cisco)
WV-473 (Glenville to Burnt House)
WV-507 (Former Alt US-22 in Weirton), marked as CR-507
WV-701 (Pine Grove to Wileyville)
WV-703 (Wadestown to Rivesville), with a notation that these segments were never signed
WV-707 (portion north of WV-279 FBI Drive in Clarksburg), formerly all of FBI Drive was signed as CR-707
WV-922 (Reedsville to US-119 near Halleck)
There are also some existing roads that have assigned future state route numbers, where in many cases the roads have not yet been upgraded. In a few cases, the route is not connected all the way through to the destinations. None of these are in the same category as "secret" state routes overlaid on US highways (and/or Interstate highways) in Georgia and Florida.
You mean I don't have the WV primary system clinched?
And source for these numbers? The official county maps I have seen don't show them as primary (square) routes, but as county (circle) routes.
See this link and check the two links on that page. The list is actually longer, but IMO these are not current state highways but may be someday ...http://www.vahighways.com/wvannex/route-log/wv701.htm
Quote from: formulanone on September 19, 2020, 06:08:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 19, 2020, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 18, 2020, 10:52:42 PM
Illinois has a number of these. Outside of the Chicago District of IDOT they are occasionally given reference markers. (https://goo.gl/maps/geJyhL9QZi5c7gtm6) Inside the Chicago District of IDOT there are number of unmarked routes where they only way to tell whose road it is is by official maps.
Completely bizarre that Google is calling it "State Route 522". There is no Route 522 in Illinois.
Google sometimes displays decommissioned routes as well as the secondary, hidden, secret ones. Not sure what the methodology is, but I guess it's only as good the information supplied combined with any overzealousness of its contributors...?
And sometimes Google Maps just pulls stuff out of its ass (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17480.msg2132672#msg2132672), without regard to signage in the field or official route designations.
As you might gather, I don't trust Google Maps at all.
Some state-maintained routes in Virginia that serve state universities, parks, or institutions are intentionally not signed by VDOT, as the designation does not provide any meaningful navigational aid. In this sense those routes could be considered "secret."
Quote from: hbelkins on September 18, 2020, 06:21:56 PM
West Virginia has a handful of unsigned primary routes, such as Alt. WV 72.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 18, 2020, 11:01:28 PM
Additionally, West Virginia also has some unsigned state routes, albeit still functioning as secondary routes:
WV-372 (East Lynn to Branchland)
WV-401 (West Liberty to I-40 near Valley Grove)
WV-471 (Cairo to Cisco)
WV-473 (Glenville to Burnt House)
WV-507 (Former Alt US-22 in Weirton), marked as CR-507
WV-701 (Pine Grove to Wileyville)
WV-703 (Wadestown to Rivesville), with a notation that these segments were never signed
WV-707 (portion north of WV-279 FBI Drive in Clarksburg), formerly all of FBI Drive was signed as CR-707
WV-922 (Reedsville to US-119 near Halleck)
There are also some existing roads that have assigned future state route numbers, where in many cases the roads have not yet been upgraded. In a few cases, the route is not connected all the way through to the destinations. None of these are in the same category as "secret" state routes overlaid on US highways (and/or Interstate highways) in Georgia and Florida.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 19, 2020, 06:04:42 PM
You mean I don't have the WV primary system clinched?
And source for these numbers? The official county maps I have seen don't show them as primary (square) routes, but as county (circle) routes.
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 19, 2020, 06:36:57 PMSee this link and check the two links on that page. The list is actually longer, but IMO these are not current state highways but may be someday ...http://www.vahighways.com/wvannex/route-log/wv701.htm
Mapmikey references the Control Destination listings from 1993 and 2015. I'm pretty sure that these secret routes (or most of them) go back further, but I can't find any references. Also, there was a slightly different version published in 2006. I've got a direct reference, but not the actual listing.
West Virginia DOT also has unsigned routes for parks and forests (P&F) routes, but the only ones for which that I can find reference are in the 2019 Reserved Route listing. There are a number of "county" roads listed, but one future state route: WV-125 (New River Parkway). https://transportation.wv.gov/highways/StrategicPerformance/gti/Highway_Data_Services/Documents/Reserved_Route_Listing.pdf (https://transportation.wv.gov/highways/StrategicPerformance/gti/Highway_Data_Services/Documents/Reserved_Route_Listing.pdf)
Quote from: hbelkins on September 18, 2020, 06:21:56 PM
West Virginia has a handful of unsigned primary routes, such as Alt. WV 72.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 18, 2020, 11:01:28 PMAdditionally, West Virginia also has some unsigned state routes, albeit still functioning as secondary routes:
WV-372 (East Lynn to Branchland)
WV-401 (West Liberty to I-40 near Valley Grove)
WV-471 (Cairo to Cisco)
WV-473 (Glenville to Burnt House)
WV-507 (Former Alt US-22 in Weirton), marked as CR-507
WV-701 (Pine Grove to Wileyville)
WV-703 (Wadestown to Rivesville), with a notation that these segments were never signed
WV-707 (portion north of WV-279 FBI Drive in Clarksburg), formerly all of FBI Drive was signed as CR-707
WV-922 (Reedsville to US-119 near Halleck)
There are also some existing roads that have assigned future state route numbers, where in many cases the roads have not yet been upgraded. In a few cases, the route is not connected all the way through to the destinations. None of these are in the same category as "secret" state routes overlaid on US highways (and/or Interstate highways) in Georgia and Florida.
Oops! I was hunting for additional state route data and something popped up on the websearch about WV-204. I didn't recall that there were any of the secret routes below the number 350. Looks like there are also unsigned routes WV-301 and WV-303. The listing also includes WV-201, but this route is signed as WV-193. (Inconceivable!)
Add the following to the list above (and there might be more):
WV-204 (Meadow Bridge to Danese)
WV-301 (Salt Rock to Milton)
WV-303 (Hamlin to unsigned WV-301 near Prarietown)
Texas has the PASS (Principle Arterial Street System) system. They're described as "city streets included in the State Highway System." I'm not sure how to read that. If US 58 runs along Main St., then Main St. isn't a city street on the state highway system, it's the city name for the part of that highway in the city. It isn't a city street, it's just a city name. That's how I see it. I don't know what a city street on the state highway system is. It seems to be state funding and designation for a city street, which should make it a state highway, but somehow doesn't. It's a non-state highway part of the state highway system. I've never seen one signed, but I seem to remember someone on here telling me that there is one signed, I think in San Antonio.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 18, 2020, 06:21:56 PM
West Virginia has a handful of unsigned primary routes, such as Alt. WV 72.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 18, 2020, 11:01:28 PM
Additionally, West Virginia also has some unsigned state routes, albeit still functioning as secondary routes:
WV-372 (East Lynn to Branchland)
WV-401 (West Liberty to I-40 near Valley Grove)
WV-471 (Cairo to Cisco)
WV-473 (Glenville to Burnt House)
WV-507 (Former Alt US-22 in Weirton), marked as CR-507
WV-701 (Pine Grove to Wileyville)
WV-703 (Wadestown to Rivesville), with a notation that these segments were never signed
WV-707 (portion north of WV-279 FBI Drive in Clarksburg), formerly all of FBI Drive was signed as CR-707
WV-922 (Reedsville to US-119 near Halleck)
There are also some existing roads that have assigned future state route numbers, where in many cases the roads have not yet been upgraded. In a few cases, the route is not connected all the way through to the destinations. None of these are in the same category as "secret" state routes overlaid on US highways (and/or Interstate highways) in Georgia and Florida.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 19, 2020, 06:04:42 PM
You mean I don't have the WV primary system clinched?
Good question. First off, I don't think any of these roads are listed as "state primary" routes. But the LSR routes in West Virginia appear to be funded as "state primary" routes. So yes, if you haven't run all of the LSR routes you probably don't have the WV primary system clinched. There was a previous thread on LSR routes: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22550.0
WV-507 was the only "secret" route that I had on my listing, but it looks like DOH treats it as an LSR (which means that it must have been posted and later downgraded). By the time I clinched it, it was already marked as CR-507 (even though my map showed it as WV-507). I had always assumed that it was never posted as WV-507 after decommissioning Alt US-22.
Face it H.B., we are now old enough that there many reasons that we have become Unclinched! I started keeping a mental track of clinched highways back in the 1960s and 1970s, well before I could drive. It's getting really hard to keep track of all of the routes/counties/states that shouldn't be counted anymore.
Quote from: wxfree on September 19, 2020, 10:35:44 PM
I've never seen one signed, but I seem to remember someone on here telling me that there is one signed, I think in San Antonio.
Yep, Wurzbach Parkway is signed as PA 1502, both from I-35 and on the road itself.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4667/28101862829_6cd950cdc1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JPgoLn)
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 19, 2020, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 18, 2020, 06:21:56 PM
West Virginia has a handful of unsigned primary routes, such as Alt. WV 72.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 18, 2020, 11:01:28 PMAdditionally, West Virginia also has some unsigned state routes, albeit still functioning as secondary routes:
WV-372 (East Lynn to Branchland)
WV-401 (West Liberty to I-40 near Valley Grove)
WV-471 (Cairo to Cisco)
WV-473 (Glenville to Burnt House)
WV-507 (Former Alt US-22 in Weirton), marked as CR-507
WV-701 (Pine Grove to Wileyville)
WV-703 (Wadestown to Rivesville), with a notation that these segments were never signed
WV-707 (portion north of WV-279 FBI Drive in Clarksburg), formerly all of FBI Drive was signed as CR-707
WV-922 (Reedsville to US-119 near Halleck)
There are also some existing roads that have assigned future state route numbers, where in many cases the roads have not yet been upgraded. In a few cases, the route is not connected all the way through to the destinations. None of these are in the same category as "secret" state routes overlaid on US highways (and/or Interstate highways) in Georgia and Florida.
Oops! I was hunting for additional state route data and something popped up on the websearch about WV-204. I didn't recall that there were any of the secret routes below the number 350. Looks like there are also unsigned routes WV-301 and WV-303. The listing also includes WV-201, but this route is signed as WV-193. (Inconceivable!)
Add the following to the list above (and there might be more):
WV-204 (Meadow Bridge to Danese)
WV-301 (Salt Rock to Milton)
WV-303 (Hamlin to unsigned WV-301 near Prarietown)
None of these routes actually exist. They were someone's dream for a vastly expanded WV route network documented in a Traffic Engineering Directive from 25+ years ago. They've never been officially designated or signed. All of the roads along their apparent routes still have their original county route designations.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 19, 2020, 10:49:34 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 19, 2020, 06:04:42 PM
You mean I don't have the WV primary system clinched?
Good question. First off, I don't think any of these roads are listed as "state primary" routes. But the LSR routes in West Virginia appear to be funded as "state primary" routes. So yes, if you haven't run all of the LSR routes you probably don't have the WV primary system clinched. There was a previous thread on LSR routes: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22550.0
WV-507 was the only "secret" route that I had on my listing, but it looks like DOH treats it as an LSR (which means that it must have been posted and later downgraded). By the time I clinched it, it was already marked as CR-507 (even though my map showed it as WV-507). I had always assumed that it was never posted as WV-507 after decommissioning Alt US-22.
"LSR" routes are county routes, they just generally get better signage comparable to if they were a WV route. Some have been WV or US routes in the past like CR 21 (former US 21) or CR 151 (former US 33), but others like CR 857 have never been state routes. There is no inherent automatic funding difference in WVDOH's funding scheme based on if the road has a US/WV/county route shield, or if it is one of those "LSR" routes. Also, that "LSR" designation isn't an official classification. They are county routes, and I've never seen that designation used outside of the one control cities Traffic Engineering Directive.
For route-clinching purposes, if you have all of the WV system routes, you're good.
The ORH system in Oregon.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 18, 2020, 06:50:07 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 18, 2020, 06:30:17 PM
All Interstates and US routes in Georgia have a hidden state designation, if that counts. I-75, for example, is also GA-401.
Also, there's something weird going on with I-10 in Los Angeles. I couldn't tell for sure what it is, though.
I-10 has an unsigned spur which connects to US 101. It was once part of US 60/70/99 and was briefly I-105.
It's CA-10 and El Monte Busway.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 19, 2020, 11:18:40 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 19, 2020, 10:21:50 AM
This thread is about secret route systems.
Yeah and (I assume that was directed at me)? Regarding California you won't find those rogue shields on anything you can track down in Caltrans Postmile Tool, certainly not in the Legislative Route descriptions. There is no for someone in field to know that the likes of CA 275 and CA 283 even exist as State Highways unless they had some sort of knowledge of the State inventory. If we are going to use the spur of I-10 in downtown Los Angeles I would think the latter qualifies as well. I would certainly think unsigned "U" Postmile Routes would probably qualify as something of a secret.
CA-244 is also on that list too.
Quote from: bing101 on September 20, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 19, 2020, 11:18:40 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 19, 2020, 10:21:50 AM
This thread is about secret route systems.
Yeah and (I assume that was directed at me)? Regarding California you won't find those rogue shields on anything you can track down in Caltrans Postmile Tool, certainly not in the Legislative Route descriptions. There is no for someone in field to know that the likes of CA 275 and CA 283 even exist as State Highways unless they had some sort of knowledge of the State inventory. If we are going to use the spur of I-10 in downtown Los Angeles I would think the latter qualifies as well. I would certainly think unsigned "U" Postmile Routes would probably qualify as something of a secret.
CA-244 is also on that list too.
Kind of, but also not really. Highways line CA 244 and CA 222 don't have shields but have in-field Postmile Paddles. Some others I know for sure don't have shields and Postmile Paddles are; CA 211 and what little is left of CA 225. (Come to think of it CA 211 might have a bridge ID which would display a Postmile and thusly make the Route not hidden/secret).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 20, 2020, 06:18:18 PM
Some others I know for sure don't have shields and Postmile Paddles are; CA 211 and what little is left of CA 225. (Come to think of it CA 211 might have a bridge ID which would display a Postmile and thusly make the Route not hidden/secret).
When I clinched CA 211 in 2017, there was one key junction with no route signage to mark a turn (I think in Fernbridge, just north of the Eel River bridge) which made it hard to follow the route, but IIRC route signage was otherwise adequate.
Quote from: oscar on September 20, 2020, 06:51:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 20, 2020, 06:18:18 PM
Some others I know for sure don't have shields and Postmile Paddles are; CA 211 and what little is left of CA 225. (Come to think of it CA 211 might have a bridge ID which would display a Postmile and thusly make the Route not hidden/secret).
When I clinched CA 211 in 2017, there was one key junction with no route signage to mark a turn (I think in Fernbridge, just north of the Eel River bridge) which made it hard to follow the route, but IIRC route signage was otherwise adequate.
I want to say that I did 211 from southbound 101. I might have an answer as to the current signage status come Columbus Day weekend.
In Maryland, every road open to the public has a route number. There are dozens of suffixed state
routes that are frequently leftovers in the state system after reconstruction or realignment that
remain under state maintenance for no especially good reason and are almost never signed.
But roads maintained by the counties and by the municipalities all have "secret" route numbers that
are never put on a sign. This also applies to the federal parkways - the Baltimore-Washington Parkway
has a "secret" state route number (MD-295), the other NPS motor roads (Suitland Parkway and Clara
Barton Parkway and the roads in National Park Service properties like Catoctin Mountain Park and
Assateague Island National Seashore have "secret" federal government route numbers that are
similarly never signed.
This thread started making me think about whether or not some routes that are currently signed should be considered "secret."
I think of Virginia's vast secondary highway system. In rural areas it makes sense to sign many of these routes, as they provide some measure of navigational aid where roads are relatively far and few between. However, in more densely-populated suburban and urban areas (e.g., Fairfax County, Loudoun County, Prince William County, Chesterfield County, etc.), signing residential streets and most arterials (even with just VDOT's signature white blade) makes no sense. These signed route numbers provide little to no navigational aid, especially since the general public typically refers to these roads by their names. I find it a colossal waste of money.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 20, 2020, 07:23:07 PM
This also applies to the federal parkways - the Baltimore-Washington Parkway
has a "secret" state route number (MD-295)
Isn't the northernmost end of the parkway actually signed as MD-295?
Minnesota's 800- and 900-series routes would qualify. Both series are unsigned, with the former usually referring to small connectors and extensions through interchanges (since Minnesota, like many states, defines routes and route intersections via centerline), while the latter are usually former signed routes that are turnback candidates but to which MnDOT has not finalized agreement with the receiving jurisdiction.
Mississippi's 700-, 800-, and 900-series routes used to qualify, but many of them are signed now.
Vermont's Named State Highways might qualify...these are routes that have an internal number, but are officially named instead of numbered.
Quote from: 1 on September 18, 2020, 08:16:17 PM
NY's 900-series routes, except for the few goofs where they do get signed.
I'd could say that I wish NY 100B was secretly signed between NY 119 and the west end of the NY 100 overlap, but I'd actually like to see it signed openly.
I've heard people say that the NY 24 gap is actually a remaining secret route between NY 110 and Exit 71 on I-495. I'm debating how I feel about the idea of that being true.
I would say that Georgia's 400-series (excluding 400 and 410) would qualify, but it's hard to really call them truly "secret" when most of them appear clearly on Google Maps.
However, GDOT's Road Inventory data (available from here (http://www.dot.ga.gov/DS/Data#tab-4)) does include two "secret" route numbers: 920 and 1008.
920 is a nearly 17-mile long route in Fayette, Clayton, and Henry counties, passing through the cities of Lovejoy and McDonough. It's mostly a 2-lane road, but about 3.5 miles of it in Henry is 4 lanes. (I'm reasonably sure this is Jonesboro Road, which intersects I-75 at exit 221.)
1008 is about 18 miles long. It has no county specified in the table, oddly, but the first half-mile is claimed to be in the city of East Dublin, where US 80 and US 319 meet a bit north of I-16. It also claims to have 0 lanes for its whole length, so I presume it is not actually constructed.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 20, 2020, 07:23:07 PM
In Maryland, every road open to the public has a route number. There are dozens of suffixed state
routes that are frequently leftovers in the state system after reconstruction or realignment that
remain under state maintenance for no especially good reason and are almost never signed.
But roads maintained by the counties and by the municipalities all have "secret" route numbers that
are never put on a sign. This also applies to the federal parkways - the Baltimore-Washington Parkway
has a "secret" state route number (MD-295), the other NPS motor roads (Suitland Parkway and Clara
Barton Parkway and the roads in National Park Service properties like Catoctin Mountain Park and
Assateague Island National Seashore have "secret" federal government route numbers that are
similarly never signed.
I thought MD 295 stopped at MD 175 when maintenance changes from the State Highway Administration to the National Park Service.
Maine has a "system" if you count two routes as a system.
The Scarborough Connector (701) is signed on Google Maps. No signs for it on roadway except for mile markers denoting the route number.
The Maine Tpke Approach (703) is not signed on Google Maps. Same deal of no roadway signs except for the mile markers.
Example for 703, https://goo.gl/maps/SYEaZGiHVSeQAcT78
Conveniently they intersect as well.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 19, 2020, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Matté on September 19, 2020, 09:30:11 AM
Quote from: J3ebrules on September 19, 2020, 02:23:02 AM
NJ has three I'm aware of: the NJ Turnpike south of where I-95 joins up (unsigned route 700),
The Garden State Parkway (unsigned route 444), and the Atlantic City Expressway (unsigned route 446).
And there would have been even more had it not been for those meddlin' traffic signal blades (59, 64) and enhanced mileposts (13, 167)!
What about the Palisades Parkway?
Unsigned 445 in Jersey, Unsigned 987C in NY. Am I missing any others? Can't believe I forgot that one, especially since I'm going there in two weeks.
Quote from: Old Dominionite on September 19, 2020, 06:44:47 PM
Some state-maintained routes in Virginia that serve state universities, parks, or institutions are intentionally not signed by VDOT, as the designation does not provide any meaningful navigational aid. In this sense those routes could be considered "secret."
Many of the interstates in Virginia used to have secret state route numbers. For example, I-495 was also designated VA 413, but VA 413 was only referenced in CTB minutes (but as late as the 2000s).
Quote from: J3ebrules on September 25, 2020, 02:07:35 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 19, 2020, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Matté on September 19, 2020, 09:30:11 AM
Quote from: J3ebrules on September 19, 2020, 02:23:02 AM
NJ has three I'm aware of: the NJ Turnpike south of where I-95 joins up (unsigned route 700),
The Garden State Parkway (unsigned route 444), and the Atlantic City Expressway (unsigned route 446).
And there would have been even more had it not been for those meddlin' traffic signal blades (59, 64) and enhanced mileposts (13, 167)!
What about the Palisades Parkway?
Unsigned 445 in Jersey, Unsigned 987C in NY. Am I missing any others? Can't believe I forgot that one, especially since I'm going there in two weeks.
446X for the Atlantic City-Brigantine Conn
I forget – is NJ 187 actually signed? It's pretty short.
Quote from: sbeaver44 on September 27, 2020, 12:54:50 PM
446X for the Atlantic City-Brigantine Conn
I forget – is NJ 187 actually signed? It's pretty short.
It is. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_Route_187#/media/File:2018-09-16_14_11_17_View_south_along_New_Jersey_State_Route_87_(Brigantine_Boulevard)_at_Huron_Avenue_and_New_Jersey_State_Route_187_in_Atlantic_City,_Atlantic_County,_New_Jersey.jpg)
Fulbright Expressway in Fayetteville, AR would likely qualify. Used to be US-71 and bypassed Fayetteville, but when US-71 moved onto what became I-540/I-49, the northern and southern connectors that looped back to the old route lost their route numbers. May be something deep in ARDOT's archives about an internal route number, but certainly nothing that's signed.
Quote from: epzik8 on September 22, 2020, 03:19:21 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 20, 2020, 07:23:07 PM
In Maryland, every road open to the public has a route number. There are dozens of suffixed state
routes that are frequently leftovers in the state system after reconstruction or realignment that
remain under state maintenance for no especially good reason and are almost never signed.
But roads maintained by the counties and by the municipalities all have "secret" route numbers that
are never put on a sign. This also applies to the federal parkways - the Baltimore-Washington Parkway
has a "secret" state route number (MD-295), the other NPS motor roads (Suitland Parkway and Clara
Barton Parkway and the roads in National Park Service properties like Catoctin Mountain Park and
Assateague Island National Seashore have "secret" federal government route numbers that are
similarly never signed.
I thought MD 295 stopped at MD 175 when maintenance changes from the State Highway Administration to the National Park Service.
The NPS maintained portion of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway carries the MD 295 designation internally. (The segment of MD 295 in Baltimore which includes Russell Street and other surface streets maintained by the city is also internally designated MD 295.)
No one's mentioned NY's reference routes?! :hmmm:
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on October 02, 2020, 02:38:16 PM
No one's mentioned NY's reference routes?! :hmmm:
Reply #13 (which is mine)