Which of these interstates in your opinion is America's Main Street? I-10, I-35, I-40, I-70, I-75, I-80, I-90, I-95 or other.
Out of those I would probably say 90 or 95, but America to me doesn't really have a main street. Maybe other countries do, but America is too spread out to have a true "Main Street" IMO.
Can I cheat and say I-40/I-44/I-55?
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 16, 2020, 09:24:23 PM
Can I cheat and say I-40/I-44/I-55?
AKA US 66
I could ask why I-80 isn't on the list - San Francisco to the Approach to the George Washington Bridge and Manhattan, by way of the southern end of the Chicagoland Metro Area, southern end of the Cleveland Metro Area, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Des Moines and Omaha. I mean, come on!
Quote from: ilpt4u on October 16, 2020, 09:36:13 PM
I could ask why I-80 isn't on the list - San Francisco to the Approach to the George Washington Bridge and Manhattan, by way of the southern end of the Chicagoland Metro Area, southern end of the Cleveland Metro Area, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Des Moines and Omaha. I mean, come on!
Quote from: csw on June 02, 2017, 08:48:52 PM
I-80 is pretty unimportant.
Think about it: it passes through Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, and Iowa. How many people live in those places? Not very many. It's concurrent through Indiana and Ohio for almost 300 miles, so that's unnecessary, then goes through rural Pennsylvania; again, no one lives there. Then it ends in quite possibly the least important city on the planet, New York.
Case closed. :spin:
The problem with those choices is that none of them are really streets at all, at least in my view. If I had to pick, I'd go with something like Kansas Avenue in Marceline, Missouri, since that was the inspiration for the Main Street USA at Disneyland.
If we're looking for something like "Premier Interstate Highway of the United States," I would go with I-90. It has free parts and toll parts. It goes through major cities and extensive rural areas, mountains, plains, and forests, and so on. There are of course other interstates that do so as well, but this one is the longest, and therefore the best.
Quote from: 1 on October 16, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on October 16, 2020, 09:36:13 PM
I could ask why I-80 isn't on the list - San Francisco to the Approach to the George Washington Bridge and Manhattan, by way of the southern end of the Chicagoland Metro Area, southern end of the Cleveland Metro Area, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Des Moines and Omaha. I mean, come on!
Quote from: csw on June 02, 2017, 08:48:52 PM
I-80 is pretty unimportant.
Think about it: it passes through Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, and Iowa. How many people live in those places? Not very many. It's concurrent through Indiana and Ohio for almost 300 miles, so that's unnecessary, then goes through rural Pennsylvania; again, no one lives there. Then it ends in quite possibly the least important city on the planet, New York.
Case closed. :spin:
You pulled that up within 5 minutes of his post? Did you have it saved or something?
Quote from: Takumi on October 16, 2020, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 16, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on October 16, 2020, 09:36:13 PM
I could ask why I-80 isn't on the list - San Francisco to the Approach to the George Washington Bridge and Manhattan, by way of the southern end of the Chicagoland Metro Area, southern end of the Cleveland Metro Area, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Des Moines and Omaha. I mean, come on!
Quote from: csw on June 02, 2017, 08:48:52 PM
I-80 is pretty unimportant.
Think about it: it passes through Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, and Iowa. How many people live in those places? Not very many. It's concurrent through Indiana and Ohio for almost 300 miles, so that's unnecessary, then goes through rural Pennsylvania; again, no one lives there. Then it ends in quite possibly the least important city on the planet, New York.
Case closed. :spin:
You pulled that up within 5 minutes of his post? Did you have it saved or something?
No. It actually took several searches. The one that did it was "i-80 new york san francisco" (without quotes). I wasted several searches thinking the word "nothing" was in the post, as in "a whole lot of nothing".
None of them are streets. None of them offer what one would expect out of a "Main Street" experience you could/can get from a US Route.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 16, 2020, 09:50:29 PM
None of them are streets. None of them offer what one would expect out of a "Main Street" experience you could/can get from a US Route.
I nominate US 40 then.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 16, 2020, 09:50:29 PM
None of them are streets. None of them offer what one would expect out of a "Main Street" experience you could/can get from a US Route.
This is not to be taken literally. I know these choices aren't streets but which of the interstates best shows in your opinion, America(rural/urban) whatever.
Quote from: ilpt4u on October 16, 2020, 09:36:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 16, 2020, 09:24:23 PM
Can I cheat and say I-40/I-44/I-55?
AKA US 66
I could ask why I-80 isn't on the list - San Francisco to the Approach to the George Washington Bridge and Manhattan, by way of the southern end of the Chicagoland Metro Area, southern end of the Cleveland Metro Area, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Des Moines and Omaha. I mean, come on!
I don't see how I overlooked it but it has been added.
I-10 is too far south. I-35 and I-40 don't hit enough major population centers. I-90 is too far north. I-75 and I-95 are too far east. So that leaves I-70 and I-80. On one hand, I-80 reaches both coasts while I-70 doesn't, but on the other hand, I-70 is much more interesting mile for mile. Overall I would say I-80 by a hair.
Quote from: dariusb on October 16, 2020, 10:11:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 16, 2020, 09:50:29 PM
None of them are streets. None of them offer what one would expect out of a "Main Street" experience you could/can get from a US Route.
This is not to be taken literally. I know these choices aren't streets but which of the interstates best shows in your opinion, America(rural/urban) whatever.
But the analogy being sought doesn't fit the reality (in my opinion). The Interstates might be a lot of things, but none of them are a good representation of what a "American Main Street Experience" should offer. It's often been said that the Interstates made it possible to travel America and see nothing in the process.
To that end historically I'd say US 66 would obviously leap off the page given it was the Los Angeles-Chicago. Someone else stated US 40 also above. I would go even further back and say stuff like the National Old Trails Road or Lincoln Highway were the truest "Main Street" experience.
I-90 is concurrent with I-80 and not the other way around. Therefore, I-80 is America's Main Street.
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2020, 11:01:02 PM
I-90 is concurrent with I-80 and not the other way around. Therefore, I-80 is America's Main Street.
Hmm. I believe that I-80 and I-90 share the same road between Portage, Indiana and Elriya, Ohio, which would mean that I-80 is indeed concurrent with I-90. Is that correct?
Seriously though, what is with all the hate towards the I-80/90 concurrency? There is a natural barrier called the Great Lakes. It's no different than the Rockies or Apps creating wacky alignments and concurrencies.
No. I-90 is concurrent with I-80.
The western I-86 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10974.0)
WTF are we on about now? If X and Y are concurrent, then X is concurrent with Y,
and Y is concurrent with X. Never in my life have I heard the concept that X can be concurrent with Y without Y being concurrent with X. What definition of "concurrent" are you using?
Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I thought it was a pretty simple concept: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concurrent
Quote from: thspfc on October 16, 2020, 11:07:43 PM
Seriously though, what is with all the hate towards the I-80/90 concurrency? There is a natural barrier called the Great Lakes. It's no different than the Rockies or Apps creating wacky alignments and concurrencies.
This is a question I can maybe entertain. First of all, I wasn't aware of any hate towards the I-80/I-90 concurrency. But I'll make up my own reason. It's kind of inconsistent that I-80 is allowed to run coast-to-coast, but I-76 was split into two segments. If it weren't for the part of I-76 that runs southwest of I-80 in Ohio, I-76 could have been concurrent with I-80 from western Nebraska to eastern Ohio, but that would be sign clutter. So, some would argue that there should be two I-80s, just like there are two I-76s, 84s, 86s, 88s, and now even two I-87s all of a sudden. But you could turn that around and say I-80 should have been the continuous route and I-90 should have been split into two. How do you decide which is more worthy when there's no criteria? You really can't choose fairly, and the only difference it would make is it would eliminate a lot of shields in Indiana and Ohio.
Quote from: stridentweasel on October 16, 2020, 11:27:53 PM
WTF are we on about now? If X and Y are concurrent, then X is concurrent with Y, and Y is concurrent with X. Never in my life have I heard the concept that X can be concurrent with Y without Y being concurrent with X. What definition of "concurrent" are you using?
Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I thought it was a pretty simple concept: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concurrent
For DOT inventory/reporting requirements, concurrent routes are often treated as if they are only the more important and/or lower numbered of the two in order to avoid duplicated data (which would mess up total mileage figures, among other things). Thus, the concurrent section would be inventoried as I-80 and I-90 would be split in this system. Both FHWA and NYSDOT do this for certain data reports (this is, incidentally, why FHWA once listed I-80 as the longest interstate on the internet somewhere even though I-90 is actually longer).
Quote from: vdeane on October 16, 2020, 11:39:39 PM
For DOT inventory/reporting requirements, concurrent routes are often treated as if they are only the more important and/or lower numbered of the two in order to avoid duplicated data (which would mess up total mileage figures, among other things). Thus, the concurrent section would be inventoried as I-80 and I-90 would be split in this system. Both FHWA and NYSDOT do this for certain data reports (this is, incidentally, why FHWA once listed I-80 as the longest interstate on the internet somewhere even though I-90 is actually longer).
Well, that makes sense. But-- I think it makes more sense to say I-80 is the primary route and I-90 is the secondary route than it does to say X is concurrent with Y but Y is not concurrent with X.
Heh, that would make CNGL's head explode since he's been railing about I-80 being the useless one of the duo (plus the 80/94 pairing) all these years.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 16, 2020, 10:20:31 PM
Quote from: dariusb on October 16, 2020, 10:11:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 16, 2020, 09:50:29 PM
None of them are streets. None of them offer what one would expect out of a "Main Street" experience you could/can get from a US Route.
This is not to be taken literally. I know these choices aren't streets but which of the interstates best shows in your opinion, America(rural/urban) whatever.
But the analogy being sought doesn't fit the reality (in my opinion). The Interstates might be a lot of things, but none of them are a good representation of what a "American Main Street Experience" should offer. It's often been said that the Interstates made it possible to travel America and see nothing in the process.
IMO, a realistic "American Main Street Experience" would show traditional downtowns in decline, after losing business to Wal-Marts and other big-box stores built near the Interstates and other new highways.
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2020, 11:13:15 PM
No. I-90 is concurrent with I-80.
One could make the other argument based on the Indiana Toll Road's mileage. It follows I-90, and I-80 jumps from mile 16 to mile 21 at Burns Harbor.
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2020, 11:13:15 PM
No. I-90 is concurrent with I-80.
So do you have any reasoning behind this, or are you just mad at I-90?
Quote from: stridentweasel on October 16, 2020, 11:27:53 PM
WTF are we on about now? If X and Y are concurrent, then X is concurrent with Y, and Y is concurrent with X. Never in my life have I heard the concept that X can be concurrent with Y without Y being concurrent with X. What definition of "concurrent" are you using?
Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I thought it was a pretty simple concept: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concurrent
Quote from: thspfc on October 16, 2020, 11:07:43 PM
Seriously though, what is with all the hate towards the I-80/90 concurrency? There is a natural barrier called the Great Lakes. It's no different than the Rockies or Apps creating wacky alignments and concurrencies.
This is a question I can maybe entertain. First of all, I wasn't aware of any hate towards the I-80/I-90 concurrency. But I'll make up my own reason. It's kind of inconsistent that I-80 is allowed to run coast-to-coast, but I-76 was split into two segments. If it weren't for the part of I-76 that runs southwest of I-80 in Ohio, I-76 could have been concurrent with I-80 from western Nebraska to eastern Ohio, but that would be sign clutter. So, some would argue that there should be two I-80s, just like there are two I-76s, 84s, 86s, 88s, and now even two I-87s all of a sudden. But you could turn that around and say I-80 should have been the continuous route and I-90 should have been split into two. How do you decide which is more worthy when there's no criteria? You really can't choose fairly, and the only difference it would make is it would eliminate a lot of shields in Indiana and Ohio.
Natural barriers are not a factor in the case of I-76. If the DOT's from Ohio to Nebraska wanted to connect the I-76s, they could realistically do so, at least until Lincoln, NE, at which point it would start to become very redundant. Would that ever actually happen? Most likely not, but it is possible. Whereas with I-90, it's not possible nor logical for it to have a routing that does not have a concurrency with I-80. I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but TL;DR, I see I-90 as one route, with a significant number of cross-country travelers along its entire route, with a long concurrency due to terrain, whereas I see I-76 as two seperate segments that don't currently need to be connected.
My definition of Main Street USA is different. It is based on this map:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/829/41322265154_d5ecc713d2_b.jpg)
Therefore, my definition doesn't include one single highway, but rather a series of highways. Currently I define Main Street USA as connecting New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles on I-78, I-76, I-81, I-80 (including the "useless" Indiana section, below), the other I-76, I-70, I-15 and I-10. I also define a branch from Big Springs NE to Portland on I-80 and I-84. I may also include a Southern route along I-81 and I-40.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 17, 2020, 01:25:18 AM
Heh, that would make CNGL's head explode since he's been railing about I-80 being the useless one of the duo (plus the 80/94 pairing) all these years.
I-80 is only useless in Indiana, not in the long I-90 concurrency.
Quote from: thspfc on October 17, 2020, 07:37:26 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2020, 11:13:15 PM
No. I-90 is concurrent with I-80.
So do you have any reasoning behind this, or are you just mad at I-90?
It's just common sense.
Quote from: Rothman on October 17, 2020, 10:18:59 AM
Quote from: thspfc on October 17, 2020, 07:37:26 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2020, 11:13:15 PM
No. I-90 is concurrent with I-80.
So do you have any reasoning behind this, or are you just mad at I-90?
It's just common sense.
Which route's mile markers continue on the concurrent stretch?
Quote from: GaryV on October 17, 2020, 10:46:31 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 17, 2020, 10:18:59 AM
Quote from: thspfc on October 17, 2020, 07:37:26 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2020, 11:13:15 PM
No. I-90 is concurrent with I-80.
So do you have any reasoning behind this, or are you just mad at I-90?
It's just common sense.
Which route's mile markers continue on the concurrent stretch?
Numbering has nothing to do with which one is the main road. Long-distance traffic counts do. Typically, the lower number takes priority with mile and exit numbering. Fortunately, Virginia correctly says that I-95 is primary over I-64 and I-81 is primary over I-64 and I-77 and keeps the higher number. Only the ambiguous situations, such as I-75/85 in Atlanta, should default to lower number taking priority.
I still don't know if I-80 or I-90 is more important on the overlap. I'm leaning toward I-80, as I-90 takes a hard 90° turn on the west end, and on the east end, I-80 goes toward NYC (and the first step to Philadelphia).
How about a different approach?
I would submit a route that changes characteristics from one end to the other, goes through the heart of several cities, has sections that are 2 lane rural highway to 8 lane expressway to a city boulevard, changes from swamps and marshes to rolling hills to some mountain areas. Crossing major rivers.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you US Highway 41.
Think about it.
The major cities of Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Nashville, Chicago and Milwaukee.
The minor cities of Naples, Ft Myers, Sarasota, Valdosta, Macon, Murfreesboro, Chattanooga, Hopkinsville, Henderson, Evansville, Terre Haute, Hammond, Waukegan, Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Appleton, Green Bay, Marinette and Marquette.
8 states in all.
US 50 is a better cross-section in my opinion, but some might think the truncation out of San Francisco changes that.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 17, 2020, 02:21:00 PM
US 50 is a better cross-section in my opinion, but some might think the truncation out of San Francisco changes that.
If I was going to go for a current US Route I'd pick US 20 as my East/West. You get a good sampling of everything in the country and it drops you off for a route gap in Yellowstone.
To that end to hit on what Oscar said, yes a lot of Main Street America was blighted by indirect cause of being bypassed. Even still, I would argue that US Routes certainly better represent what was and definitely is a far better sampling of terrain variations.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 17, 2020, 02:32:03 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 17, 2020, 02:21:00 PM
US 50 is a better cross-section in my opinion, but some might think the truncation out of San Francisco changes that.
If I was going to go for a current US Route I'd pick US 20 as my East/West. You get a good sampling of everything in the country and it drops you off for a route gap in Yellowstone.
To that end to hit on what Oscar said, yes a lot of Main Street America was blighted by indirect cause of being bypassed. Even still, I would argue that US Routes certainly better represent what was and definitely is a far better sampling of terrain variations.
If we're going to extend the concept to US highways, I'd submit
US 30, which is signed to both coasts, as the route that most typifies the "main street" concept -- both in terms of the volume of traffic carried on either its specific facility or, in the case of states where there is a parallel/replacement Interstate (cf. NE), its direct replacement. It traverses both major metro areas (Portland, Chicagoland, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia), smaller but significant cities (Boise, Pocatello, Cedar Rapids, Fort Wayne, Canton, Atlantic City) and one hell of a lot of small towns -- and suburbs -- along the way. A little bit of everything, even on the segments where it rides atop I-84, I-86, etc. -- but most of the states it passes through have elected to maintain its separate alignment, at least partially in some instances. The fact that it's reasonably and consistently signed from coast to coast is itself a modern miracle these days.
I probably have to pick I-10, I-80 (this one while groaning), I-95, I-35, and I-5 all equally, and here's why...
I-80 goes through or quite close to New York, Cleveland, Toledo, Chicago, Des Moines, Omaha, Salt Lake City, Reno, Sacramento, Oakland, and San Francisco. From it, there are also single routes that provide direct connections to Philadelphia, Akron, Detroit, Ft. Wayne, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Denver, Fresno, and San Jose.
I-10 goes through or near Jacksonville, Tallahassee, Mobile, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Houston, San Antonio, El Paso, Tuscon, Phoenix, San Bernardino, and Los Angeles. It also has routes from it that provide very direct connections to Miami, Atlanta, Montgomery, Shreveport, Austin, Albuquerque, Las Vegas, and San Diego.
I-95 goes through or near Miami, Jacksonville, Savannah, Richmond, Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, New Haven, Providence, Boston, and Portland. It also has routes from it that provide very direct connections to Orlando, Tampa, Columbia, Wilmington, Raleigh, Norfolk/Hampton Roads, Hartford, and then a direct connection to New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, CA.
I-35 goes through or near Laredo, San Antonio, Austin, Waco, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Oklahoma City, Wichita, Kansas City, Des Moines, Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Duluth. It also has routes from it that provide very direct connections to Mexico, Houston, Tulsa, Topeka, St. Louis, Omaha, and Canada.
I-5 goes through or near San Diego, Anaheim, Los Angeles, Sacramento, Eugene, Salem, Portland, Tacoma, and Seattle. It also has routes from it that provide very direct connections to Tijuana (Mexico), Long Beach, Thousand Oaks, Bakersfield, Fresno, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, and Vancouver (Canada).
You could also make a good case for several others. I-40 would be a candidate but the largest city it serves is Nashville. I really wanted to include I-90 over I-80, but West of Chicago, really the next major metro area is at its end in Seattle, plus I-80 goes to New York. Finally, I-75 was the last one I had to eliminate. It serves some major areas such as Atlanta and Detroit, and its Southern stretch is busy and warrants those six lanes. However, I-95 ultimately, serves more larger cities directly throughout.
America is big, and honestly, picking just one "main street" is almost impossible. But if you look at these 5 routes, you see that many of the largest population centers are either directly serviced or have a direct connection to them.
Quote from: 1 on October 17, 2020, 10:49:14 AM
Quote from: GaryV on October 17, 2020, 10:46:31 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 17, 2020, 10:18:59 AM
Quote from: thspfc on October 17, 2020, 07:37:26 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2020, 11:13:15 PM
No. I-90 is concurrent with I-80.
So do you have any reasoning behind this, or are you just mad at I-90?
It's just common sense.
Which route's mile markers continue on the concurrent stretch?
Numbering has nothing to do with which one is the main road. Long-distance traffic counts do. Typically, the lower number takes priority with mile and exit numbering. Fortunately, Virginia correctly says that I-95 is primary over I-64 and I-81 is primary over I-64 and I-77 and keeps the higher number. Only the ambiguous situations, such as I-75/85 in Atlanta, should default to lower number taking priority.
I still don't know if I-80 or I-90 is more important on the overlap. I'm leaning toward I-80, as I-90 takes a hard 90° turn on the west end, and on the east end, I-80 goes toward NYC (and the first step to Philadelphia).
I don't feel too strongly about it either way, but if I'm just looking at a map, I-80 is the "primary" route since, as 1 says, I-90 has to take a significant "detour" to the south (on both ends) because of the Great Lakes while I-80 basically maintains its latitudinal position (granted, I-80 takes a similar southward dip on its west end, but it doesn't result in a concurrency).
Also, based on metro area endpoints, San Francisco-New York > Seattle-Boston.
***
Meanwhile, sorta along the lines of what ChiMilNet did, I took all the x5 and x0 Interstates and compared them against which of the 30 largest CSAs (which covers areas of 2.5 million people or more) they passed through.
Note: I picked CSAs as opposed to just MSAs because many of the 3dIs go beyond just the MSA. That said, it does create some possible anomalies, such as I-40 being counted for Los Angeles.
Top 5 unweighted (i.e., just by the number of areas they pass through):
1) I-70 (7)
T2) I-5, I-80 (6)
4) I-95 (5)
T5) I-10, I-35, I-75, I-90 (4)
Top 5 weighted (taking population of those areas into account):
1) I-95 (54.8M)
2) I-80 (50.9M)
3) I-5 (42.5M)
4) I-10 (33.6M)
(Basically a tie) 5) I-90 (26.6M), I-70 (26.4M)
So subjectively I call a tie between I-95 and I-80. I-95 not only because it connects over 50 million people, but it also connects the largest city and the capital and five of the top ten largest areas, plus it follows the historical backbone of the original colonies. I-80 because it also connects over 50 million people, connects three of the five largest areas, and is (basically) ocean-to-ocean.
Odd timing, but this newspaper makes an argument for US 12.
https://www.jamestownsun.com/lifestyle/travel/6722591-An-original-U.S.-route-holding-strong-as-it-approaches-100
Quote from: stridentweasel on October 16, 2020, 11:27:53 PM
This is a question I can maybe entertain. First of all, I wasn't aware of any hate towards the I-80/I-90 concurrency. But I'll make up my own reason. It's kind of inconsistent that I-80 is allowed to run coast-to-coast, but I-76 was split into two segments. If it weren't for the part of I-76 that runs southwest of I-80 in Ohio, I-76 could have been concurrent with I-80 from western Nebraska to eastern Ohio, but that would be sign clutter. So, some would argue that there should be two I-80s, just like there are two I-76s, 84s, 86s, 88s, and now even two I-87s all of a sudden. But you could turn that around and say I-80 should have been the continuous route and I-90 should have been split into two. How do you decide which is more worthy when there's no criteria? You really can't choose fairly, and the only difference it would make is it would eliminate a lot of shields in Indiana and Ohio.
The rationale for the 278-mile concurrency of I-80/90 is to have both x0 interstates be coast to coast on a semi-logical route, and it was planned basically this way from the beginning of the system.
The two I-76s have no such rationale, either historically or currently. I-76 only originally went from Pittsburgh to metro-Philadelphia, with the Pittsburgh-Lodi section of I-76 being I-80S. The western I-76 was also I-80S.
As it stands today, I-76 (east) doesn't end at I-80 and would require either new construction (I doubt Ohio's interested in extending an interstate standard I-76 based on its disinterest in the I-73/I-74 proposals) or some backtracking convoluted route to get back to I-80 just to have an over 1100 mile overlap?
Maybe as some super-fictional routing along US 30 to Fort Wayne, US 24/Hoosier Heartland to connect with I-74, redesignating all of I-72 and extending across Missouri on US 36, then north on I-29 to IA/NE 2 to reconnect with I-80 at Lincoln would give I-76 about a 300-mile overlap across Nebraska. If any of those roads are updated to Interstate standards, let's talk.
As for the thread, nationally my votes are for I-95 (connects the original 13 colonies) and I-80 (NYC to San Francisco plus being a busy freight corridor). Locally, I vote I-25 as it's the "Main Street" passing through the largest cities of Colorado, Wyoming, and New Mexico.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 18, 2020, 04:36:31 PM
Odd timing, but this newspaper makes an argument for US 12.
https://www.jamestownsun.com/lifestyle/travel/6722591-An-original-U.S.-route-holding-strong-as-it-approaches-100
While I think US 12 is a strong Route for variation I can't put it in the same category as US 20/30/50 given it has an eastern terminus only in Detroit.
I nominate US 61. It connects several places where American music has its roots, from the French Quarter's New Orleans jazz through the Mississippi Delta blues of Clarksdale to Elvis's Sun Studio in Memphis to Scott Joplin and Chuck Berry's St Louis homes to Minneapolis and Duluth (albeit as MN 61) which gave us Prince and Bob Dylan (who both named an album and wrote a song about it) respectively. That makes it the birthplace of American jazz, blues, rock, ragtime, modern funk, and the merger of folk with rock (when Dylan went electric).
Quote from: skluth on October 19, 2020, 04:47:23 PM
I nominate US 61. It connects several places where American music has its roots, from the French Quarter's New Orleans jazz through the Mississippi Delta blues of Clarksdale to Elvis's Sun Studio in Memphis to Scott Joplin and Chuck Berry's St Louis homes to Minneapolis and Duluth (albeit as MN 61) which gave us Prince and Bob Dylan (who both named an album and wrote a song about it) respectively. That makes it the birthplace of American jazz, blues, rock, ragtime, modern funk, and the merger of folk with rock (when Dylan went electric).
US 61 would probably be it for historic north/south highways. I think US 41 has it beat right now given it does reach the Canadian Border anymore.
Kind of hard to pick one, i'd personally say I-10, 35, and 80
although I may replace 80 with 70 or something
I couldn't give a main street for the country as a whole, but I do have ideas for each region. (I don't want to have the region debate we had in off topic either).
West Coast: Definitely I-5, runs through most major cities (Portland, Seattle, Eugene, Salem)
Southwest: I say it's I-10 (San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, El Paso)
Southeast: I-40 (Memphis, Nashville, Triad, Triangle). One could argue I-75 (Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Knoxville) or I-85 (Atlanta, Charlotte, Triangle, Richmond/Petersburg).
Midwest: I-94 (MSP, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit). One could make an argument for I-70 as well (KC, STL, Indy, Columbus).
Mid Atlantic/New England: I won't state the obvious. If you want to say I'm referring to I-90 be my guest.
Quote from: stridentweasel on October 16, 2020, 11:27:53 PM
WTF are we on about now? If X and Y are concurrent, then X is concurrent with Y, and Y is concurrent with X. Never in my life have I heard the concept that X can be concurrent with Y without Y being concurrent with X. What definition of "concurrent" are you using?
Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I thought it was a pretty simple concept: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concurrent
Quote from: thspfc on October 16, 2020, 11:07:43 PM
Seriously though, what is with all the hate towards the I-80/90 concurrency? There is a natural barrier called the Great Lakes. It's no different than the Rockies or Apps creating wacky alignments and concurrencies.
This is a question I can maybe entertain. First of all, I wasn't aware of any hate towards the I-80/I-90 concurrency. But I'll make up my own reason. It's kind of inconsistent that I-80 is allowed to run coast-to-coast, but I-76 was split into two segments. If it weren't for the part of I-76 that runs southwest of I-80 in Ohio, I-76 could have been concurrent with I-80 from western Nebraska to eastern Ohio, but that would be sign clutter. So, some would argue that there should be two I-80s, just like there are two I-76s, 84s, 86s, 88s, and now even two I-87s all of a sudden. But you could turn that around and say I-80 should have been the continuous route and I-90 should have been split into two. How do you decide which is more worthy when there's no criteria? You really can't choose fairly, and the only difference it would make is it would eliminate a lot of shields in Indiana and Ohio.
The singular issue with the western I-76 is that the numbering, not coincidentally in 19
76, was because of (a) the pending renumbering of all suffixed routes like the 80S it replaced, and (b) although "grid-appropriate"
per se, its number was selected to honor Colorado's centennial, again coincidentally with the nation's bicentennial (the Colorado media plus their congressional delegation stated so at the time!). It's a short albeit vital connector (pretty much a portion of the shortest-mileage Interstate route from L.A. to Chicago) -- but that's about the end of it. Speculation regarding connecting it to either the I-76/71 junction in OH or even somewhere in Chicagoland (considering an extension west along US 30) is simply gratuitous and overly literal (and certainly a subject more suited for Fictional).
Quote from: sparker on October 20, 2020, 12:37:32 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on October 16, 2020, 11:27:53 PM
WTF are we on about now? If X and Y are concurrent, then X is concurrent with Y, and Y is concurrent with X. Never in my life have I heard the concept that X can be concurrent with Y without Y being concurrent with X. What definition of "concurrent" are you using?
Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I thought it was a pretty simple concept: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concurrent
Quote from: thspfc on October 16, 2020, 11:07:43 PM
Seriously though, what is with all the hate towards the I-80/90 concurrency? There is a natural barrier called the Great Lakes. It's no different than the Rockies or Apps creating wacky alignments and concurrencies.
This is a question I can maybe entertain. First of all, I wasn't aware of any hate towards the I-80/I-90 concurrency. But I'll make up my own reason. It's kind of inconsistent that I-80 is allowed to run coast-to-coast, but I-76 was split into two segments. If it weren't for the part of I-76 that runs southwest of I-80 in Ohio, I-76 could have been concurrent with I-80 from western Nebraska to eastern Ohio, but that would be sign clutter. So, some would argue that there should be two I-80s, just like there are two I-76s, 84s, 86s, 88s, and now even two I-87s all of a sudden. But you could turn that around and say I-80 should have been the continuous route and I-90 should have been split into two. How do you decide which is more worthy when there's no criteria? You really can't choose fairly, and the only difference it would make is it would eliminate a lot of shields in Indiana and Ohio.
The singular issue with the western I-76 is that the numbering, not coincidentally in 1976, was because of (a) the pending renumbering of all suffixed routes like the 80S it replaced, and (b) although "grid-appropriate" per se, its number was selected to honor Colorado's centennial, again coincidentally with the nation's bicentennial (the Colorado media plus their congressional delegation stated so at the time!). It's a short albeit vital connector (pretty much a portion of the shortest-mileage Interstate route from L.A. to Chicago) -- but that's about the end of it. Speculation regarding connecting it to either the I-76/71 junction in OH or even somewhere in Chicagoland (considering an extension west along US 30) is simply gratuitous and overly literal (and certainly a subject more suited for Fictional).
I feel like the I-76 discussion comes up every month or so.
Quote from: I-55 on October 20, 2020, 12:33:24 AM
I couldn't give a main street for the country as a whole, but I do have ideas for each region. (I don't want to have the region debate we had in off topic either).
West Coast: Definitely I-5, runs through most major cities (Portland, Seattle, Eugene, Salem)
Southwest: I say it's I-10 (San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, El Paso)
Southeast: I-40 (Memphis, Nashville, Triad, Triangle). One could argue I-75 (Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Knoxville) or I-85 (Atlanta, Charlotte, Triangle, Richmond/Petersburg).
Midwest: I-94 (MSP, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit). One could make an argument for I-70 as well (KC, STL, Indy, Columbus).
Mid Atlantic/New England: I won't state the obvious. If you want to say I'm referring to I-90 be my guest.
What really hurts I-5 over US 99 is that it bypasses literally every important city and town by way of the West aside Freeway in California. US 99 actually was nick named "The Main Street of California."
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2020, 08:13:43 AM
Quote from: I-55 on October 20, 2020, 12:33:24 AM
I couldn't give a main street for the country as a whole, but I do have ideas for each region. (I don't want to have the region debate we had in off topic either).
West Coast: Definitely I-5, runs through most major cities (Portland, Seattle, Eugene, Salem)
Southwest: I say it's I-10 (San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, El Paso)
Southeast: I-40 (Memphis, Nashville, Triad, Triangle). One could argue I-75 (Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Knoxville) or I-85 (Atlanta, Charlotte, Triangle, Richmond/Petersburg).
Midwest: I-94 (MSP, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit). One could make an argument for I-70 as well (KC, STL, Indy, Columbus).
Mid Atlantic/New England: I won't state the obvious. If you want to say I'm referring to I-90 be my guest.
What really hurts I-5 over US 99 is that it bypasses literally every important city and town by way of the West aside Freeway in California. US 99 actually was nick named "The Main Street of California."
When I was typing this I somehow forgot to consider California on the west coast. Oh well.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 19, 2020, 04:54:10 PM
Quote from: skluth on October 19, 2020, 04:47:23 PM
I nominate US 61. It connects several places where American music has its roots, from the French Quarter's New Orleans jazz through the Mississippi Delta blues of Clarksdale to Elvis's Sun Studio in Memphis to Scott Joplin and Chuck Berry's St Louis homes to Minneapolis and Duluth (albeit as MN 61) which gave us Prince and Bob Dylan (who both named an album and wrote a song about it) respectively. That makes it the birthplace of American jazz, blues, rock, ragtime, modern funk, and the merger of folk with rock (when Dylan went electric).
US 61 would probably be it for historic north/south highways. I think US 41 has it beat right now given it does reach the Canadian Border anymore.
US 41 has some good music roots too, from Chicago's blues artists being the primary influence of early British rockers to country music's Grand Ole Opry in Nashville to the Allman Brothers originating Southern Rock in Georgia to today's huge Latin-based influences coming out of Miami. It also has a soft spot in my heart for going past Lambeau Field on Lombardi Avenue in my hometown when I was a kid. US 41 technically has never even reached Canada, but you can't really go further north on land from the Keweenaw Peninsula so I guess it's close enough. /wink
The answer for sure is I-80
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 20, 2020, 08:13:43 AM
Quote from: I-55 on October 20, 2020, 12:33:24 AM
I couldn't give a main street for the country as a whole, but I do have ideas for each region. (I don't want to have the region debate we had in off topic either).
West Coast: Definitely I-5, runs through most major cities (Portland, Seattle, Eugene, Salem)
Southwest: I say it's I-10 (San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, El Paso)
Southeast: I-40 (Memphis, Nashville, Triad, Triangle). One could argue I-75 (Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Knoxville) or I-85 (Atlanta, Charlotte, Triangle, Richmond/Petersburg).
Midwest: I-94 (MSP, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit). One could make an argument for I-70 as well (KC, STL, Indy, Columbus).
Mid Atlantic/New England: I won't state the obvious. If you want to say I'm referring to I-90 be my guest.
What really hurts I-5 over US 99 is that it bypasses literally every important city and town by way of the West aside Freeway in California. US 99 actually was nick named "The Main Street of California."
Sacramento and Stockton say hi, but your point is taken.
I'd give strong consideration to US-6 and US-50, especially if you included California's decommissioned sections of both.
Quote from: frankenroad on October 21, 2020, 12:55:18 PM
I'd give strong consideration to US-6 and US-50, especially if you included California's decommissioned sections of both.
US 50 is pretty strong as is, the western terminus is at the State Capitol of Sacramento. The extension over Altamont was kind of wonky in a geographic sense and a marginally better solution than US 48 (which should have been extended over Carson Pass instead IMO).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 21, 2020, 01:02:12 PM
Quote from: frankenroad on October 21, 2020, 12:55:18 PM
I'd give strong consideration to US-6 and US-50, especially if you included California's decommissioned sections of both.
US 50 is pretty strong as is, the western terminus is at the State Capitol of Sacramento. The extension over Altamont was kind of wonky in a geographic sense and a marginally better solution than US 48 (which should have been extended over Carson Pass instead IMO).
At the time that US 48 existed, Carson Pass was not yet being plowed in winter months and was effectively closed from November through April; it wasn't until the '60's that CA 88 became a year-round (except in extremely severe storm conditions) facility. Chances are that because of this there was never any thought to extending US 48 over then-CA 8 east of Stockton in the early '30's. As far as the concept of extending US 50 to the coast over the convoluted "detour" south along US 99 is concerned -- the push for US routes ending in zero to, as much as feasible, extend from coast to coast (cf. US 20 in OR and US 70 in SoCal) was likely a deciding factor in the designation of the extension -- particularly after plans for the Bay Bridge were announced around 1930.
US-40
Oh wait I didn't see it had to be an Interstate. Then I'm going with the Interstate that parallels it for most of it's length, I-70.
I would pick I-80 as it is the closest interstate routing that we have to the Lincoln Highway. But I would really pick the Lincoln Highway if that was a choice.
https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/map/
Coast to coast from Times Square to the Golden Gate.
Lincoln Hwy hits NYC, Newark, Trenton, Phil, Pitts, Canton, Fort Wayne, South Bend, Chicago suburbs (auxiliary routes hit Chicago proper), Cedar Rapids, Omaha, Grand Island, Cheyenne, Salt Lake City, Reno, Sacramento, San Francisco. Not only does it hit those cities, but it conceivably hits many mid sized towns right through its center. Especially, the original routing before all the bypasses hit. It even hits Breezewood.
US-1 on the east coast would be my pick for America's main street.
US-101 would be the west coast version of America's main street.
Note US-99 would have been another pick for the west coast version of Main street if it was not decommissioned and renumbered as state routes CA-99 and WA-99.
If we can include non-interstates, I'll go with the Victory Highway (roughly US 40) for E-W and the Dixie Highway western route (roughly US 41) for N-S. As for their equivalent interstates, for the Victory Highway, it's I-80 SF-SLC, I-70 Denver-Baltimore, and I-95 Baltimore-NYC, and a gap between SLC and Denver as US 40 between those two is independent. For the Dixie Highway, it's roughly I-75 Miami-Chattanooga, I-24 Chattanooga-Nashville, I-65 Nashville-Gary, I-94 Gary-Chicago.
I-481 in Syracuse
Interstate 180.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 18, 2021, 12:00:24 PM
Interstate 180.
I nominate I-535
If Bob Uecker can get HOF votes as a player anything is possible ;)
Quote from: gr8daynegb on June 18, 2021, 12:15:28 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 18, 2021, 12:00:24 PM
Interstate 180.
I nominate I-535
If Bob Uecker can get HOF votes as a player anything is possible ;)
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: for Bob Uecker