Recently, I noticed something odd from Google Maps. Several small KS towns have minor and major streets laid in brick. These include Kingman, Harper, Pratt, and Augusta--and those are just the ones near Wichita. Why is this?
Quote from: STLmapboy on November 02, 2020, 01:03:22 PM
Recently, I noticed something odd from Google Maps. Several small KS towns have minor and major streets laid in brick. These include Kingman, Harper, Pratt, and Augusta--and those are just the ones near Wichita. Why is this?
Bricks were cheap to make, with local materials and could be used for buildings.
It was way more durable during the change in seasons.
Rain could be more readily be absorbed through the brick cracks.
Before limestone chip and oil were commonly available, brick was considered the more viable street surface.
Horse drawn wagons and early cars could use them easily.
Bricks didn't scale well. Great for local streets, not good for long distance roads, unless you had large amounts of labor at your disposal (like the Roman stone roads were made).
Once the pouring of reinforced concrete became viable around 1915, bricks became less used for rural roads.
Quote from: STLmapboy on November 02, 2020, 01:03:22 PM
and those are just the ones near Wichita.
Don't forget (https://goo.gl/maps/N7or1qvety3o1ts8A)
Wichita itself. (https://goo.gl/maps/sQdT6tvKFAWm7A36A)
Another question–why do so many small Kansas towns have tourism billboards as you approach them on non-freeway state highways? You rarely see this in other states, but in Kansas just about every town has a big-ish sign listing things to do in town or what they consider the town notable for.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 02, 2020, 04:42:47 PM
Another question–why do so many small Kansas towns have tourism billboards as you approach them on non-freeway state highways? You rarely see this in other states, but in Kansas just about every town has a big-ish sign listing things to do in town or what they consider the town notable for.
So they made a thousand copies of a sign that says "Wheat?" :)
Quote from: kphoger on November 02, 2020, 02:56:44 PM
Don't forget (https://goo.gl/maps/N7or1qvety3o1ts8A) Wichita itself. (https://goo.gl/maps/sQdT6tvKFAWm7A36A)
And don't forget
Kansas City (https://goo.gl/maps/G2vtQnQYjk9hCBCL7),
Lawrence (https://goo.gl/maps/YE5XD3YrMmYyhJa29),
Topeka (https://goo.gl/maps/YfNR3PbtV3ynL2Bp7), and
Manhattan (https://goo.gl/maps/XfKWhprqnAaf8GGy9).
Hmmm, I saw this in one town when we decided to take a detour to se the Largest Ball of Sisal Twine and the Geographic Center of the Continental US, but didn't think much of it at the time. Now that I think about it, it was kind of interesting, but it does make sense, as some of these towns were probably settled when the railroads were just built, and it was probably cheaper just to repair any parts of the road that deteriorated with brick, rather than tearing up all the bricks and repacking than. Main roads may have been paved with asphalt, but only out of necessity.
Maybe those inspired the Yellow Brick Road from the Wizard of Oz? If so, there had to be an obvious connection.
Ponca City, OK (20 miles south of the KS border) also has many brick streets. I haven't seen that in any other Oklahoma towns, at least to that extent.
Quote from: dchristy on November 03, 2020, 10:38:08 AM
Ponca City, OK (20 miles south of the KS border) also has many brick streets. I haven't seen that in any other Oklahoma towns, at least to that extent.
Guthrie has quite a few
Quote from: STLmapboy on November 02, 2020, 01:03:22 PM
Recently, I noticed something odd from Google Maps. Several small KS towns have minor and major streets laid in brick. These include Kingman, Harper, Pratt, and Augusta--and those are just the ones near Wichita. Why is this?
Not in Kansas, but Carrollton, MO has a few brick streets, not major ones though (Heidel St. between S. Folger St. & S. Jefferson St. & 7th & 8th Sts. between N. Main St. & N. Jefferson St.).
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 02, 2020, 04:42:47 PM
Another question–why do so many small Kansas towns have tourism billboards as you approach them on non-freeway state highways?
Also not in Kansas, but Higginsville, MO has, or used to have a couple of big signs pointing in the direction of the town (I forget one sign was, but the other was near the junction of US 24 & MO 213, West of Dover, MO.).
Many people forget that the Indianapolis Speedway, home of the Indy 500 used to be paved in brick. Hence the nickname, "The Brickyard".
There is still a strip of sealed bricks at the finish line. Sealed because the force of cars going 200+ mph would suck them right up.
I think you can go to just about any city in the USA and find in one place or another, brick streets.
Periodically you will see an article in a newspaper where the street reconstruction ended up finding a forgotten layer of bricks underneath.
For you historians, in Europe they are still finding roads built by the Romans with the predecessor to brick, stones.
What irritates many folks is when a utility has to tear up a brick street, they don't replace it with bricks, they put in concrete. Bricks are subject to settling and they don't want to come back to fix it again.
One town I lived in simply left the abandoned trolley tracks in the brick streets, because to take them out would require removing the brick and they didn't want to.
In San Angelo, Texas, in the late '90s, the city did some serious rebuilding/utility work at the intersection of Beauregard and Chadbourne Streets (two of the oldest major streets in the city), and they found the original wooden paving blocks under the bricks that were used as paving material later. Someplace around here I have examples of both blocks and bricks (at least I think I brought them up to Illinois with us).
The streets along the railroad tracks near the old passenger and freight depots are still bricked.
When the City of OKC expanded N Kelley from 2 to 4 lanes between NE 122nd and Hefner, they dug up the original brick paving from when Kelley was US66. The contractor let anyone come by and haul off the bricks. I remember an article on one of the news sites about a guy who built a backyard patio and barbecue setup with them. I have one in my garage as a memento.
There is another stretch of old 66 that has an asphalt overlay over the original bricks - Beverly Drive.
Quote from: edwaleni on November 05, 2020, 08:56:37 AM
For you historians, in Europe they are still finding roads built by the Romans with the predecessor to brick, stones.
In Mexico, they're still actively paving roads with the predecessor to brick, stones.
For example, I drove on
this road (https://goo.gl/maps/5dLtq9HAMc9opxHi6) in 2006, while it was half finished being converted from dirt to stone.
Quote from: kphoger on November 05, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on November 05, 2020, 08:56:37 AM
For you historians, in Europe they are still finding roads built by the Romans with the predecessor to brick, stones.
In Mexico, they're still actively paving roads with the predecessor to brick, stones.
For example, I drove on this road (https://goo.gl/maps/5dLtq9HAMc9opxHi6) in 2006, while it was half finished being converted from dirt to stone.
You don't have to go to Mexico. The Laclede's Landing district in St Louis has both brick sidewalks and some cobblestone streets (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6299309,-90.1833261,3a,60y,314.52h,68.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6GC_QD5OjcO7I8kP_O1PyA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en). They've actually gone back to some regular pavement in the last decade. I've seen similar setups in historic neighborhoods in the Atlantic Coast states and Midwest. I think some places try it out as a novelty and slow down car traffic, but revert to regular streets if the hordes of tourists don't come like they expected.
Quote from: edwaleni on November 05, 2020, 08:56:37 AM
Many people forget that the Indianapolis Speedway, home of the Indy 500 used to be paved in brick. Hence the nickname, "The Brickyard".
There is still a strip of sealed bricks at the finish line. Sealed because the force of cars going 200+ mph would suck them right up.
I think you can go to just about any city in the USA and find in one place or another, brick streets.
Periodically you will see an article in a newspaper where the street reconstruction ended up finding a forgotten layer of bricks underneath.
For you historians, in Europe they are still finding roads built by the Romans with the predecessor to brick, stones.
What irritates many folks is when a utility has to tear up a brick street, they don't replace it with bricks, they put in concrete. Bricks are subject to settling and they don't want to come back to fix it again.
One town I lived in simply left the abandoned trolley tracks in the brick streets, because to take them out would require removing the brick and they didn't want to.
Brick and stone streets are also victims of the freeze/thaw cycle, especially in cold winter climates. The maintenance is hard enough but when adding repair of heaving which can affect large portions it becomes cost-effective to remove or pave over them.
Quote from: rarnold on November 05, 2020, 09:06:08 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on November 05, 2020, 08:56:37 AM
Many people forget that the Indianapolis Speedway, home of the Indy 500 used to be paved in brick. Hence the nickname, "The Brickyard".
There is still a strip of sealed bricks at the finish line. Sealed because the force of cars going 200+ mph would suck them right up.
I think you can go to just about any city in the USA and find in one place or another, brick streets.
Periodically you will see an article in a newspaper where the street reconstruction ended up finding a forgotten layer of bricks underneath.
For you historians, in Europe they are still finding roads built by the Romans with the predecessor to brick, stones.
What irritates many folks is when a utility has to tear up a brick street, they don't replace it with bricks, they put in concrete. Bricks are subject to settling and they don't want to come back to fix it again.
One town I lived in simply left the abandoned trolley tracks in the brick streets, because to take them out would require removing the brick and they didn't want to.
Brick and stone streets are also victims of the freeze/thaw cycle, especially in cold winter climates. The maintenance is hard enough but when adding repair of heaving which can affect large portions it becomes cost-effective to remove or pave over them.
Main St in Norman, OK has a brick stripe the middle of the road, possibly from trolly tracks, from where the road gets a median (near 27th Ave) to about Berry Rd. It used to continue to DT Norman, however it looks like they redid the road further East and removed it.
McLean, TX has their Main St. in brick, from 2nd street to Railroad street.
Here is how many DOT's retired brick paving. Here is a brick pulverizer crushing a brick street (in this case US-66).
(https://madison-historical.siue.edu/archive/files/fullsize/2e458ce21ad6f18151de366a3ad5b0e0.jpg)
Quote from: edwaleni on November 11, 2020, 08:31:23 AM
Here is how many DOT's retired brick paving. Here is a brick pulverizer crushing a brick street (in this case US-66).
(https://madison-historical.siue.edu/archive/files/fullsize/2e458ce21ad6f18151de366a3ad5b0e0.jpg)
Where was this taken? Did they leave the pulverized brick as a sublayer for asphalt/concrete?
Quote from: rte66man on November 11, 2020, 01:29:01 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on November 11, 2020, 08:31:23 AM
Here is how many DOT's retired brick paving. Here is a brick pulverizer crushing a brick street (in this case US-66).
(https://madison-historical.siue.edu/archive/files/fullsize/2e458ce21ad6f18151de366a3ad5b0e0.jpg)
Where was this taken? Did they leave the pulverized brick as a sublayer for asphalt/concrete?
Madison, Illinois.
The scraper would come along and level the pulverized brick for the sublayer.
That is a train station in the background, but I don't know which railroad. Madison in those days had a lot of railroads.
^^^^
I looked at a modern map of Madison and tried to determine where the station might have stood. I know one of the routes 66 took through Madison was up Broadway/Madison Ave. Didn't see anything promising there. A more modern route was up Edwardsville Road. Didn't see anything there either.
I realize this was 100 years ago but these things intrigue me. WIll have to keep digging.
Quote from: rte66man on November 12, 2020, 03:35:58 PM
^^^^
I looked at a modern map of Madison and tried to determine where the station might have stood. I know one of the routes 66 took through Madison was up Broadway/Madison Ave. Didn't see anything promising there. A more modern route was up Edwardsville Road. Didn't see anything there either.
I realize this was 100 years ago but these things intrigue me. WIll have to keep digging.
I did the same. I even zoomed the photo to 500% to read that street sign.
I will probably have to look at an old city map from the era.
Quote from: rte66man on November 12, 2020, 03:35:58 PM
^^^^
I looked at a modern map of Madison and tried to determine where the station might have stood. I know one of the routes 66 took through Madison was up Broadway/Madison Ave. Didn't see anything promising there. A more modern route was up Edwardsville Road. Didn't see anything there either.
I realize this was 100 years ago but these things intrigue me. WIll have to keep digging.
I found the photo source: "Madison County", not Madison, Illinois. My mistake.
https://madison-historical.siue.edu/archive (https://madison-historical.siue.edu/archive)
"
This 1939 photograph shows a construction truck for the Madison Construction Company pulverizing brick paving in preparation for repaving Route 66/Vandalia Street through Edwardsville."
Quote from: rte66man on November 12, 2020, 03:35:58 PM
^^^^
I looked at a modern map of Madison and tried to determine where the station might have stood. I know one of the routes 66 took through Madison was up Broadway/Madison Ave. Didn't see anything promising there. A more modern route was up Edwardsville Road. Didn't see anything there either.
I realize this was 100 years ago but these things intrigue me. WIll have to keep digging.
The photo shows the intersection of Vandalia Road and Brown Street in Edwardsville.
The train station in the background was for the Litchfield & Madison Railroad. Interesting because the Chicago & Northwestern RR which controlled it, only show a station in Staunton IL. So this building must be where the crews in Edwardsville were based.
If you think those towns have a lot of brick streets, you should visit Fort Scott, KS. The brick streets there are a point of pride for the community.
Too bad they were poorly maintained from about 1965 to about 2010. The brick streets are bumpy, have concrete patches or have been paved over because it was just easier than fixing it.
One horrid attempt at patching is near downtown where they poured red-colored concrete and stamped a brick pattern in it. It dried pink, you can see the crushed rocks and they poured too much so it rises slightly above the level of the rest of the road.
If my memory serves correct, there are several towns along US 40 and US 24 that have short sections of brick streets. Most have been paved over, but a few have such poor street maintenance, the bricks show through.
Brick streets were a big deal back before WWI. Any sort of hard-stand street was. Kansas has them for two reasons. 1) They spent money building passable downtowns before large scale concrete or asphalt paving was feasible. 2) They didn't dig them up and replace them in the interim years.
In Texas MOST of the remaining brick streets were paved over with asphalt / asphaltic concrete in the fifties and sixties. When nostalgia made brick streets popular again, they milled the pavement down to the bricks and viola! Milling also cured the biggest problem with brick (or as far as that goes wood cobble) streets: uneven choppy ride. They could be milled down to an even height and this seemed to work with bricks similar to how it works with more modern road materials.
As far as that goes, you can mill the expansion joint / plate shift joints and turn a fairly lumpy road into a smooth surface. The downside is every time you do this, it makes the top thinner and thinner. You can overlay the concrete or asphalt surfaces. With Bricks, it kinda defeats the purpose. That said, brick streets are not maintenance free. They break, chip, sink down, ride up. The very reason they were paved over still exists.
I spent a spent a few days when I was in high school chipping mortar off of bricks from a torn-down building. The use for the bricks were replacements for the brick streets a couple of towns over. I checked, it seems they dug them up and repaved the entire downtown with concrete.
Quote from: STLmapboy on November 02, 2020, 01:03:22 PM
Recently, I noticed something odd from Google Maps. Several small KS towns have minor and major streets laid in brick. These include Kingman, Harper, Pratt, and Augusta--and those are just the ones near Wichita. Why is this?
Because brick streets are beautiful.
I spent a good deal of time in Atchison over the past few years, and the brick streets there were laid by a guy who lost both legs below the knee in a railroad accident (true story!). The major roads got paved over, but a good number of minor streets, especially in the Amelia Earhart Historic District are still brick. They're really slick in the winter!
Trenton has brick streets. Not sure how many other towns in NJ do.
Sturgeon Ave (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4315932,-92.4579799,3a,60y,74.85h,82.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shu3SY9nnszjoWxUsivLMGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in Moberly, MO is also brick.
Add Oberlin, KS to the list. It is pretty extensive there as well.