EDIT: CNGL-Leudimin is the winner!! :spin: :clap: :spin:
I was wondering, would it be possible to drive from coast to coast without using any numbered routes? No interstates, U.S. routes, or even state routes? Just plain old thorofares?
* Unsigned routes are allowed.
* Important: I'm now allowing business, county, forest, secondary, and Indian routes, regardless of their signage status
* Roads which used to be signed, but aren't anymore are allowed (e.g. old alignments, Route 66).
* A distinction is to be maintained between numbered routes, and roads and streets that have numbers in their names. That is, something like "First St", "3400 S", or even "County Route 1600W"–provided its name is written only on a signblade, and not a separate shield–would be allowed, but "State Route 1", "Secondary Route 44", or a signed "County Route 32" would not.
* The only requirement is that roads are marked on Google Maps as roads. Doesn't matter if they're low-clearance, gated off, or even nonexistent.
* Example itinerary: NY to SF; first three steps are Macombs Dam Bridge, Jerome Ave, Mosholu Pkwy; last three steps are Linden Ave, Grand Ave, Mission Rd/St. Doesn't have to be those two cities, any two on opposite coasts will do.
I mean, obviously such a route probably does exist (it would probably have to pass through Minnesota too, because of the Mississippi River), but has anyone actually tried plotting one? Like, listing hundreds of different roads to take, or making a bajillion separate directions lists on Google Maps? It's a fun topic; I'm surprised no one here's ever thought of it (to my knowledge, at least). Maybe not, actually, because it's really tricky!
I could definitely get you out of the Bay Area and over the Sierra Nevada Mountains (Sherman Pass Road). The trouble is then you run into a wall with US 395. Los Angeles or San Diego would be a better starting point given the Mojave/Sonoran Deserts have fewer geographic obstacles (and non numbered roads crossing the State Line to Arizona).
So question, do Numbered County Routes or Numbered Forest Routes also count? If so, then this is a way harder challenge.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 05, 2020, 07:19:42 PM
So question, do Numbered County Routes or Numbered Forest Routes also count? If so, then this is a way harder challenge.
Only if they are signed. And by signed, I mean big signs, not little tiny markers on the side that non-roadgeeks would gloss over.
If you see any signs, I will judge them on a case-by-case basis.
Y'know, I'm now starting to rethink the possibility of this challenge. Gulp. :-(
The Midwest is definitely the easiest part of this; neat grids of rural farm roads (which btw don't count as numbered routes in my book, even if they have names like "S 2000 W" or whatever. The east might be a little tricky, but probably doable if I try hard enough.
But west of the Rockies is just hell.
As far as getting you out of California it is doable so long as you originate south of CA 58. It takes some really badass roads to get to Arizona but it can be done. The truck is getting to either the Mojave or Sonoran Desert but not boxed into having to take a State Maintained road. An example I would use to get out of Los Angeles to the Mojave:
- San Fernando Road
- Sierra Highway
- Railroad Avenue
- Bouquet Canyon Road
- Seco Canyon Road
- Copper Hill Drive
- San Francisquito Canyon Road
That route would avoid the CA 14U segment of Sierra Highway. There is Los Angeles County Route N2 at Elizabeth Lake Road which must be joined, but that's not a state facility. From there think that I could come up with a route to Nevada via the Mojave Preserve. It might be possible via old rail siding and mine roads to head through the Sonoran Desert to cross into Arizona via Cibola. The Bradshaw Trail definitely is the way to go to get towards Cibola, so a more southerly route is probably needed for that.
I believe that the first "unnumbered" crossing of the Mississippi is the Parrish Avenue Bridge in Elk River, but it might be signed as CR-42. The next one might be better, the University Bridge in St. Cloud.
Looking at the revised description if California is the starting point then I'm of the opinion that we should look for a eastward route from San Diego, Long Beach, or Los Angeles to Cibola, Arizona. I believe that the KOFA preserve can be reached via Cibola without having to use a State Highway. If the KOFA Preserve and I-10 can be crossed then the next biggest obstacle would likely be the mountains of Gila County. Maybe a swing northward through Prescott National Forest and onward to the Colorado Plateau would be better? The Navajo Nation has a ton of back roads to get out of Arizona from there.
Possible strategies:
- Avoid Texas and Kentucky at all costs. Numbered routes into the thousands.
- Use the Midwest to full potential. Lots of plain grid roads.
- Cross the Rockies using the (probably unsigned) forest routes in Grand Mesa NF (https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZrPmyu5ZNbePsTg58)
- Looks like the northeast is harder than I thought, actually. Probably gonna end in Savannah, GA, or Greenville, NC instead.
- Cross Missouri River at Plattsmouth or Bellevue
- Cross Mississippi at Elk City
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on November 05, 2020, 07:48:09 PM
Possible strategies:
- Avoid Texas at all costs
- Use the Midwest to full potential
- Cross the Rockies using the (probably unsigned) forest routes in Grand Mesa NF (Flagpole Mountain
Colorado 81647
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZrPmyu5ZNbePsTg58)
- Looks like the northeast is harder than I thought, actually. Probably gonna end in Savannah GA instead.
The problem with the Rockies is that most of the major passes are State Maintained. New Mexico is dodgy with all the random State Highways.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 05, 2020, 07:49:55 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on November 05, 2020, 07:48:09 PM
Possible strategies:
- Avoid Texas at all costs
- Use the Midwest to full potential
- Cross the Rockies using the (probably unsigned) forest routes in Grand Mesa NF (Flagpole Mountain
Colorado 81647
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZrPmyu5ZNbePsTg58)
- Looks like the northeast is harder than I thought, actually. Probably gonna end in Savannah GA instead.
The problem with the Rockies is that most of the major passes are State Maintained. New Mexico is dodgy with all the random State Highways.
I know. But Grand Mesa NF has plenty of unnumbered routes.
CA-AZ-UT-CO-NE-IA-MN-WI-IL-IN-OH-WV-VA
(Can't end south of VA, because KY is in the way)
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 05, 2020, 07:45:28 PM
Looking at the revised description if California is the starting point then I'm of the opinion that we should look for a eastward route from San Diego, Long Beach, or Los Angeles to Cibola, Arizona. I believe that the KOFA preserve can be reached via Cibola without having to use a State Highway. If the KOFA Preserve and I-10 can be crossed then the next biggest obstacle would likely be the mountains of Gila County. Maybe a swing northward through Prescott National Forest and onward to the Colorado Plateau would be better? The Navajo Nation has a ton of back roads to get out of Arizona from there.
The problem is, even though there are many back roads, a lot of them T-intersect with numbered routes. So we need to be looking for 4-way intersections.
Hell, I think this is almost impossible with just state-level routes. But I'm also still curious if it's possible.
Don't forget that a lot of (most?) VA and NC backroads are secondaries, as well.
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on November 05, 2020, 08:01:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 05, 2020, 07:45:28 PM
Looking at the revised description if California is the starting point then I'm of the opinion that we should look for a eastward route from San Diego, Long Beach, or Los Angeles to Cibola, Arizona. I believe that the KOFA preserve can be reached via Cibola without having to use a State Highway. If the KOFA Preserve and I-10 can be crossed then the next biggest obstacle would likely be the mountains of Gila County. Maybe a swing northward through Prescott National Forest and onward to the Colorado Plateau would be better? The Navajo Nation has a ton of back roads to get out of Arizona from there.
The problem is, even though there are many back roads, a lot of them T-intersect with numbered routes. So we need to be looking for 4-way intersections.
That's why I'm thinking the Bradshaw Mountains are the answer. There are plenty of old mine roads south of Prescott to get you towards said city. From there are even more mine roads and old alignment of US 89 to get you towards Coconino National Forest. I believe that there is enough old NOTR and US 66 alignments to get towards Flagstaff. You can get out of Flagstaff on Lake Mary Road toward the Colorado Plateau.
I'm trying to think of a way over the Cascade Mountains in California that doesn't involve a State Highway. I think Nevada and Utah might be less of an obstacle (especially Nevada).
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 05, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Don't forget that a lot of (most?) VA and NC backroads are secondaries, as well.
I revised the description. Both of these are now permissible.
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on November 05, 2020, 08:26:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 05, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Don't forget that a lot of (most?) VA and NC backroads are secondaries, as well.
I revised the description. Both of these are now permissible.
That puts my origins Route out of Los Angeles back in play. The Marine Base in Barstow is an obstacle but it can be gotten around on existing roads north for the City. Either way the only real bet is to start turning south somewhere from Amboy toward Cibola. It might be possible to cross Joshua Tree National Park and Box Canyon Road to get near the Bradshaw Trail.
Here's a start in New Jersey (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/40.5927453,-75.2021636/42-2+Roosevelt+Ave,+Deal,+NJ+07723/@40.2089913,-74.5500589,9.72z/data=!4m59!4m58!1m50!3m4!1m2!1d-75.0770296!2d40.6066662!3s0x89c40c942b80a5a5:0xb36a69ebebcd0a69!3m4!1m2!1d-74.8911584!2d40.5462508!3s0x89c3f46bec63efed:0x7151f6278af185ba!3m4!1m2!1d-74.7837027!2d40.5534989!3s0x89c3f283db49d341:0x8ee0c21b06d27af9!3m4!1m2!1d-74.6324091!2d40.4989017!3s0x89c3ea31e7d352e7:0xd7af1f4db705500f!3m4!1m2!1d-74.4367167!2d40.4789936!3s0x89c3c6690847a60d:0xcfedb2eb9b51f8a7!3m4!1m2!1d-74.3877265!2d40.388779!3s0x89c3cfeea54a7287:0xdc02928fd8965027!3m4!1m2!1d-74.3313573!2d40.2821823!3s0x89c3d6b69ad42de9:0x4ba2e1b20727bbdf!3m4!1m2!1d-74.2728462!2d40.258005!3s0x89c3d45dbabbd02f:0x8c64518de549463e!3m4!1m2!1d-74.0986822!2d40.3032805!3s0x89c22e5d1318b4dd:0x8a7b1b200472ae3a!3m4!1m2!1d-74.0719756!2d40.2660255!3s0x89c22f26ad78f3e1:0x3b34651e101931e5!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c225c974f777ef:0x4c161c3f1f0bce3!2m2!1d-73.9901681!2d40.2573373!3e0!5m1!1e1). I'll see if I can't work out Pennsylvania.
EDIT: This used state routes for a few blocks in New Brunswick, now fixed.
Avoid Missouri, if you are going to count the lettered highways (since they are lettered, I suppose you can use them in this challenge). Perhaps up north you might get by up until the MO river, but the Ozarks are a bit of a mess in terms of county roads.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on November 05, 2020, 08:49:29 PM
Avoid Missouri, if you are going to count the lettered highways. Perhaps up north you might get by up until the MO river, but the Ozarks are a bit of a mess in terms of county roads.
See above; I made an exception for county routes, forest routes, and secondary systems. MO isn't in my plan anyway.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on November 05, 2020, 08:49:29 PM
Avoid Missouri, if you are going to count the lettered highways (since they are lettered, I suppose you can use them in this challenge). Perhaps up north you might get by up until the MO river, but the Ozarks are a bit of a mess in terms of county roads.
I do know you can cross the Mississippi at St. Louis using the McKinley or MLK Bridges, while crossing into Kansas at Kansas City is easy. I think your best bet is to stay south of the Missouri River and parallel US 50 across the state; though my attempt forced me south towards Rolla and west towards Lake of the Ozarks. Turns out a lot of lettered routes end offset from each other and you've gotta use a state route to connect them.
Quote from: noelbotevera on November 05, 2020, 08:56:16 PM
Quote from: ozarkman417 on November 05, 2020, 08:49:29 PM
Avoid Missouri, if you are going to count the lettered highways (since they are lettered, I suppose you can use them in this challenge). Perhaps up north you might get by up until the MO river, but the Ozarks are a bit of a mess in terms of county roads.
I do know you can cross the Mississippi at St. Louis using the McKinley or MLK Bridges, while crossing into Kansas at Kansas City is easy. I think your best bet is to stay south of the Missouri River and parallel US 50 across the state; though my attempt forced me south towards Rolla and west towards Lake of the Ozarks. Turns out a lot of lettered routes end offset from each other and you've gotta use a state route to connect them.
Turns out southern Missouri is more hilly than northern Missouri (at least the roads are more twisty).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 05, 2020, 08:19:03 PM
I think Nevada and Utah might be less of an obstacle (especially Nevada).
Most of Nevada is one north-south oriented mountain range after another. The roads that go up into those generally dead-end, and most likely start from a T-intersection on a north-south state or US highway. Maybe this could be done on an ATV, but anything road-legal, no way.
If we can find a north-south path where every road it intersects is numbered, we can say that it's impossible.
Quote from: noelbotevera on November 05, 2020, 08:56:16 PM
I do know you can cross the Mississippi at St. Louis using the McKinley or MLK Bridges, while crossing into Kansas at Kansas City is easy.
Except the McKinley is only accessible on the Illinois side via IL 3. (https://goo.gl/maps/X8bxogqQdvKATLnK7) The Eads looks like it can be accessed without any numbered routes.
There would be a couple tricky parts. First, crossing major rivers. There are probably only a handful of non-numbered route bridges over the Mississippi and Missouri. But the real pain would be the Rockies. Overall, I feel like the first two thirds ish could be fairly simple. Start in southeastern Georgia and cross Alabama, Tennessee, corners of Kentucky and Illinois, then cross the Mississippi at St. Louis, then cross Missouri and Kansas. That way you avoid the Apps in favor of more flat terrain, and you cross the Mississippi at one of the only places that seems to have surface street bridges. Anyone who can figure out a way to get from Denver to the Pacific without using a numbered route deserves their name in a museum somehwere.
Quote from: gonealookin on November 05, 2020, 09:30:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 05, 2020, 08:19:03 PM
I think Nevada and Utah might be less of an obstacle (especially Nevada).
Most of Nevada is one north-south oriented mountain range after another. The roads that go up into those generally dead-end, and most likely start from a T-intersection on a north-south state or US highway. Maybe this could be done on an ATV, but anything road-legal, no way.
Everything I've suggest so far requires high clearance four wheel drive at minimum. The Bradshaw Trail itself is an old wagon road that is fairly reliably known in the off road community. If we are talking low clearance this challenge is totally impossible.
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on November 05, 2020, 08:26:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 05, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Don't forget that a lot of (most?) VA and NC backroads are secondaries, as well.
I revised the description. Both of these are now permissible.
You still haven't mentioned secondaries in your OP. Nevermind that a large number of the Virginia secondaries are signed like regular routes.
Quote from: Dirt RoadsI believe that the first "unnumbered" crossing of the Mississippi is the Parrish Avenue Bridge in Elk River, but it might be signed as CR-42. The next one might be better, the University Bridge in St. Cloud.
The entirety of Mississippi River bridges that are unnumbered/unsigned routes and that don't require connections via signed routes:
- Eads Bridge in St. Louis
- MLK Bridge in St. Louis
- Wabasha St Bridge in St. Paul
- 10th Ave Bridge in Minneapolis
- Plymouth Ave Bridge in Minneapolis
- Camden Bridge in Minneapolis
- University Bridge in St. Cloud
- St Germain St Bridge in St. Cloud
- Sauk Rapids Bridge
- College Dr Bridge in Brainerd
- Laurel St Bridge in Brainerd
- SE 7th Ave Bridge in Grand Rapids
- Forest Route 2171 northwest of Bena (I'm not sure if this has a driveable outlet on the northeast side
There are two other bridges (McKinley Bridge in St. Louis and Arsenal Bridge in Davenport, IA) that technically are not signed routes but require a connection via a signed state route.
Continental Divide crossings in Colorado that are not state highways:
La Poudre Pass – No west-side road link
Hagerman Pass – No east-side road link past US-285 that doesn't use state highways
Cottonwood Pass – West-side access (https://goo.gl/maps/CWq7mMhDBtFPmBV2A) past the Gunnison River valley is possible, but I haven't identified a route east to CO-9 that doesn't have at least a tiny bit on a state highway.
Quote from: kphoger on November 06, 2020, 10:52:25 AM
Continental Divide crossings in Colorado that are not state highways:
La Poudre Pass – No west-side road link
Hagerman Pass – No east-side road link past US-285 that doesn't use state highways
Cottonwood Pass – West-side access (https://goo.gl/maps/CWq7mMhDBtFPmBV2A) past the Gunnison River valley is possible, but I haven't identified a route east to CO-9 that doesn't have at least a tiny bit on a state highway.
Guess we'll have to go Wyoming, then.
Also, do you consider Route 306 a state highway? It's a forest road that uses both rectangular and state markers.
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on November 06, 2020, 11:01:48 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 06, 2020, 10:52:25 AM
Continental Divide crossings in Colorado that are not state highways:
La Poudre Pass – No west-side road link
Hagerman Pass – No east-side road link past US-285 that doesn't use state highways
Cottonwood Pass – West-side access (https://goo.gl/maps/CWq7mMhDBtFPmBV2A) past the Gunnison River valley is possible, but I haven't identified a route east to CO-9 that doesn't have at least a tiny bit on a state highway.
Guess we'll have to go Wyoming, then.
Also, do you consider Route 306 a state highway? It's a forest road that uses both rectangular and state markers.
Do you have evidence that it uses state markers?
And I mean other than Google Maps, which is in absolutely no way official?Because that hasn't been a state highway in more than 30 years.
Hmmm, I wonder if any of these (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4165936,-106.9777827,10.96z) backroads cross the Divide... :hmmm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rocky_Mountain_passes_on_the_continental_divide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rocky_Mountain_passes_on_the_continental_divide)
Some Rocky Mountain crossings in Montana
- Logan Pass (Going-to-The-Sun Rd, Glacier National Park) -- Eastbound path limited as it runs into US-89
- Mullan Pass (Mullan Rd, Helena National Forest) -- seems to dead-end on the west side
If I'm reading the wiki right, there are no auto crossings in Wyoming that qualify.
Damn, I give up.
Quote from: Revive 755 on November 05, 2020, 09:46:59 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on November 05, 2020, 08:56:16 PM
I do know you can cross the Mississippi at St. Louis using the McKinley or MLK Bridges, while crossing into Kansas at Kansas City is easy.
Except the McKinley is only accessible on the Illinois side via IL 3. (https://goo.gl/maps/X8bxogqQdvKATLnK7) The Eads looks like it can be accessed without any numbered routes.
You can still avoid IL 3 by exiting at Bremen St, though. Then you can follow the backroad by the river that becomes W Second St.
Quote from: Evan_Th on November 06, 2020, 07:15:02 PM
You can still avoid IL 3 by exiting at Bremen St, though. Then you can follow the backroad by the river that becomes W Second St.
Is that route even open to the general public? From what I can tell on aerial photos (which may not be up to date anymore), it looks like public access would generally be prohibited - there appears to be a gated, pump station type area.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on November 05, 2020, 07:41:11 PM
I believe that the first "unnumbered" crossing of the Mississippi is the Parrish Avenue Bridge in Elk River, but it might be signed as CR-42. The next one might be better, the University Bridge in St. Cloud.
The problem I see with this, assuming that St. Louis is impossible, is that all crossings of both the St. Croix and St. Louis Rivers between Minnesota and Wisconsin are signed highways. Therefore, it would have to cross the MN/WI border in the section of the border between those two rivers.
Quote from: Revive 755 on November 06, 2020, 10:02:52 PM
Quote from: Evan_Th on November 06, 2020, 07:15:02 PM
You can still avoid IL 3 by exiting at Bremen St, though. Then you can follow the backroad by the river that becomes W Second St.
Is that route even open to the general public? From what I can tell on aerial photos (which may not be up to date anymore), it looks like public access would generally be prohibited - there appears to be a gated, pump station type area.
From the OP, it doesn't matter:
"The only requirement is that roads are marked on Google Maps as roads. Doesn't matter if they're low-clearance, gated off, or even nonexistent."
On the other hand, you're right that Google Maps satellite view doesn't even look like the road goes through between the railroad lines and Bissell St. Bing Maps doesn't even mark it as a road.
So if we're trying to make this trip doable, and crossing in St. Louis, we'd need to use the Eads Bridge or MLK Bridge.
On the other hand, the Arsenal Bridge in Davenport, IA can also be used, if we go through Rock Island to avoid IL 92 - try this route: https://goo.gl/maps/yaQpdBWo7pukkjxD9
Quote from: Evan_Th on November 07, 2020, 03:02:58 AM
On the other hand, the Arsenal Bridge in Davenport, IA can also be used, if we go through Rock Island to avoid IL 92 - try this route: https://goo.gl/maps/yaQpdBWo7pukkjxD9
I forgot about that option! It's theoretically possible, but difficult due to its status as a US Army base. I'm not sure about the specific rules, but I'm pretty sure you have to attend an event on Arsenal Island, you can't just cross it for fun (I've tried).
Crossing Illinois from there shouldn't be too hard to figure out. The Rock River and Des Plaines/Illinois rivers have at least a few options for non-signed crossings.
Don't forget there are river ferries (including the Mississippi)
Has anyone tried to go across the Great Divide Basin? Given there are virtually no mountains surrounding that, it should be easy to cross the Continental Divide in that hole.
Coast to coast? After 20 minutes of looking, I can't even find a way I'd make my <40 mile commute (Amsterdam to Loudonville, NY) without a state/US/I route. River crossings pose a challenge. In my case, I either need to cross the Mohawk or cross the Hudson twice. I can get to the unnumbered Mohawk River crossing at Tribes Hill/Fort Hunter, except I can't get anywhere on the south side without NY 5S or NY 30 that I've figured out. Then there's Freemans Bridge in Glenville/Schenectady, but I am not seeing a good way to cross NY 147 and NY 50 to get there.
Quote from: Jim on November 07, 2020, 08:55:21 AM
Coast to coast? After 20 minutes of looking, I can't even find a way I'd make my <40 mile commute (Amsterdam to Loudonville, NY) without a state/US/I route. River crossings pose a challenge. In my case, I either need to cross the Mohawk or cross the Hudson twice. I can get to the unnumbered Mohawk River crossing at Tribes Hill/Fort Hunter, except I can't get anywhere on the south side without NY 5S or NY 30 that I've figured out. Then there's Freemans Bridge in Glenville/Schenectady, but I am not seeing a good way to cross NY 147 and NY 50 to get there.
It only has to reach the coast, not the easternmost part of the United States. Crossing the Hudson is not required, as anywhere from NJ to FL will still reach the coast.
However, I think it would be easier to prove impossible (by having a curved path from Canada to Mexico that only touches numbered roads) than to actually find a path that works.
Quote from: 1 on November 07, 2020, 09:04:44 AM
Quote from: Jim on November 07, 2020, 08:55:21 AM
Coast to coast? After 20 minutes of looking, I can't even find a way I'd make my <40 mile commute (Amsterdam to Loudonville, NY) without a state/US/I route. River crossings pose a challenge. In my case, I either need to cross the Mohawk or cross the Hudson twice. I can get to the unnumbered Mohawk River crossing at Tribes Hill/Fort Hunter, except I can't get anywhere on the south side without NY 5S or NY 30 that I've figured out. Then there's Freemans Bridge in Glenville/Schenectady, but I am not seeing a good way to cross NY 147 and NY 50 to get there.
It only has to reach the coast, not the easternmost part of the United States. Crossing the Hudson is not required, as anywhere from NJ to FL will still reach the coast.
Of course I'm not saying that a solution my smaller version of the problem is required to solve the larger problem, just pointing out that even what I thought would be a fun and easy little puzzle turned out to be a lot more challenging than I thought.
And how about using OpenStreetMap instead? Using that I've found a Eastwards outlet from Cottonwood Pass to CO 9 and beyond. I have to check if both Park and Teller counties sign their county roads with shields, if both don't then I've found a way to get to Colorado Springs, where the terrain eases out. This would solve this from the East Coast to the Continental Divide. Now, getting to the West Coast is an entirely different story.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 07, 2020, 10:18:17 AM
And how about using OpenStreetMap instead? Using that I've found a Eastwards outlet from Cottonwood Pass to CO 9 and beyond. I have to check if both Park and Teller counties sign their county roads with shields, if both don't then I've found a way to get to Colorado Springs, where the terrain eases out. This would solve this from the East coast to the Continental Divide. Now, getting to the West Coast is an entirely different story.
I thought the OP revised that Signed County Routes are okay?
Quote from: Revive 755 on November 05, 2020, 09:46:59 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on November 05, 2020, 08:56:16 PM
I do know you can cross the Mississippi at St. Louis using the McKinley or MLK Bridges, while crossing into Kansas at Kansas City is easy.
Except the McKinley is only accessible on the Illinois side via IL 3. (https://goo.gl/maps/X8bxogqQdvKATLnK7) The Eads looks like it can be accessed without any numbered routes.
You are correct on both the Eads and McKinley corrections. The MLK is also possible. Another possibility in the STL area is the St Genevieve - Modoc ferry. I'd also suggest the Golden Eagle Ferry, but I have no idea how to cross the Illinois River from Calhoun County (or anywhere south of Peru/LaSalle). I don't know of any Missouri River crossings downstream from KC that aren't state or national highways, so crossing the Mississippi from STL and south would mean entering those states no further north than KC.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 07, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 07, 2020, 10:18:17 AM
And how about using OpenStreetMap instead? Using that I've found a Eastwards outlet from Cottonwood Pass to CO 9 and beyond. I have to check if both Park and Teller counties sign their county roads with shields, if both don't then I've found a way to get to Colorado Springs, where the terrain eases out. This would solve this from the East coast to the Continental Divide. Now, getting to the West Coast is an entirely different story.
I thought the OP revised that Signed County Routes are okay?
Yep.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 07, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 07, 2020, 10:18:17 AM
And how about using OpenStreetMap instead? Using that I've found a Eastwards outlet from Cottonwood Pass to CO 9 and beyond. I have to check if both Park and Teller counties sign their county roads with shields, if both don't then I've found a way to get to Colorado Springs, where the terrain eases out. This would solve this from the East coast to the Continental Divide. Now, getting to the West Coast is an entirely different story.
I thought the OP revised that Signed County Routes are okay?
Yep.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on November 05, 2020, 07:41:11 PM
I believe that the first "unnumbered" crossing of the Mississippi is the Parrish Avenue Bridge in Elk River, but it might be signed as CR-42. The next one might be better, the University Bridge in St. Cloud.
There's plenty of crossings within St. Paul and Minneapolis that work as well. I don't know why I missed that earlier.
Now hang on just a minute here. Nothing says the entire route has to be within the United States, just that it has to go from one coast to the other. So perhaps it would be more feasible finding a route that cuts through Mexico to cross the Rockies.
Nice point, I'm going to find a route that goes across Spain, using only provincial roads or lower (or in autonomous communities consisting of only one province, anything below "green" road status), as I'll finish way quicker than in the USA :sombrero:. Technically I can use any road in the Basque Country xD.
Now seriously, I'm still trying to connect Gunnison CO and Cibola AZ, which is the last remaining piece to solve this challenge. However, it may be easier to go through Northern Nevada and Utah, but then we get confronted by the Wasatch mountains to get to that relatively easy crossing of the divide that is the Great Divide Basin.
Edit: Definitely it can be done, although it requires using a great deal of unpaved roads, especially out West. I managed to find a route not using Interstate, US or state routes from the Great Divide Basin all the way to the Pacific Coast at Shelter Cove, California, although it requires a lot of backtracking: Near Logan, Utah it requires going all the way up to Idaho in order to avoid any state routes, and also I had to go into Idaho to cross the NV 225/ID 51 barrier, only to swing back South to Golconda, Nevada and go South of I-80 for a while to get across US 95. Luckily the Humboldt river has several unnumbered crossings around Winnemucca.
If any of you find such a route, list it.
I'm working on that Eastwards. I've now reached the Mississippi at St. Louis, there are a few key points. Missouri is surprisingly hard to cross, one has to go all the way to the MO D bridge (near I-44) to cross the Gasconde River (I thought there was another downstream, but I've found it's actually MO 89, not MO E). Osage River is easier to cross: just do it atop Bagnell Dam. Thence in a Northwest stairstep to the Platte River, but stay South of it, and cross the South Platte River at Brule, Nebraska. From there it should be relatively easy to reach the Great Divide Basin. Also, I didn't say in my addendum to the previous post, aim at Randolph, Utah from the Great Divide Basin, going that way it should be easy to cross several numbered highways. Other than the detour I detailed crossing Utah should be easy, and the route I noted will do it through Nevada. In California one has to stay South of CA 36 and cross the Sacramento river on CR A8.
I still have to find a route East from the Eads and MLK bridges back to the East Coast in order to accomplish the challenge.
And a further note (I don't need it for my route): If one wants to start or end in Washington state, one must cross the Priest Rapids Dam in order to get across the Columbia River. And it requires quite some backtracking too.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 08, 2020, 08:58:21 AM
I'm working on that Eastwards. I've now reached the Mississippi at St. Louis, there are a few key points. Missouri is surprisingly hard to cross, one has to go all the way to the MO D bridge (near I-44) to cross the Gasconde River (I thought there was another downstream, but I've found it's actually MO 89, not MO E). Osage River is easier to cross: just do it atop Bagnell Dam. Thence in a Northwest stairstep to the Platte River, but stay South of it, and cross the South Platte River at Brule, Nebraska. From there it should be relatively easy to reach the Great Divide Basin. Also, I didn't say in my addendum to the previous post, aim at Randolph, Utah from the Great Divide Basin, going that way it should be easy to cross several numbered highways. Other than the detour I detailed crossing Utah should be easy, and the route I noted will do it through Nevada. In California one has to stay South of CA 36 and cross the Sacramento river on CR A8.
I still have to find a route East from the Eads and MLK bridges back to the East Coast in order to accomplish the challenge.
And a further note (I don't need it for my route): If one wants to start or end in Washington state, one must cross the Priest Rapids Dam in order to get across the Columbia River. And it requires quite some backtracking too.
What road gets across the northern Sierras just south of 36? There isn't a lot to work with between 32, 36, 172, 89, and 70.
I'm using unpaved roads to get across some areas, some of which may not even be marked in Google Maps (notably the unpaved road I use between Golconda and Winnemucca, Nevada; although satellite imagery shows it does exist). This breaks OP's rules, a result of working with OpenStreetMap instead. In that area, I go from CR A3 to CA 89 at Greenville (crossing US 395 a bit North of the Southern CR A3 junction), then roughly Seneca-Butt Valley Reservoir-Butte Meadows to CA 32, then back North to get near CA 99 but without reaching it, and down to the CR A8 bridge (since the Sacramento River bridges in Red Bluff are either I-5 or CA 36).
I think I can work a coast-to-coast route by now. I only need to get across Pennsylvania and meet with noelbotevera's route across New Jersey to finish it. Thank God there's a bridge over the Susquehanna River at Harrisburg that doesn't form part of a numbered route (or at least a signed one).
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 08, 2020, 12:52:13 PM
I'm using unpaved roads to get across some areas, some of which may not even be marked in Google Maps (notably the unpaved road I use between Golconda and Winnemucca, Nevada; although satellite imagery shows it does exist). This breaks OP's rules, a result of working with OpenStreetMap instead. In that area, I go from CR A3 to CA 89 at Greenville (crossing US 395 a bit North of the Southern CR A3 junction), then roughly Seneca-Butt Valley Reservoir-Butte Meadows to CA 32, then back North to get near CA 99 but without reaching it, and down to the CR A8 bridge (since the Sacramento River bridges in Red Bluff are either I-5 or CA 36).
I think I can work a coast-to-coast route by now. I only need to get across Pennsylvania and meet with the OP's route across New Jersey to finish it. Thank God there's a bridge over the Susquehanna River at Harrisburg that doesn't form part of a numbered route (or at least a signed one).
You might be able to identify the designations of the roads you're looking at on the Forest Service Interactive Map. I figured there had to be something in the Cascades that I wasn't aware of that doesn't show up on Google Maps.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 08, 2020, 12:52:13 PM
I'm using unpaved roads to get across some areas, some of which may not even be marked in Google Maps (notably the unpaved road I use between Golconda and Winnemucca, Nevada; although satellite imagery shows it does exist). This breaks OP's rules, a result of working with OpenStreetMap instead. In that area, I go from CR A3 to CA 89 at Greenville (crossing US 395 a bit North of the Southern CR A3 junction), then roughly Seneca-Butt Valley Reservoir-Butte Meadows to CA 32, then back North to get near CA 99 but without reaching it, and down to the CR A8 bridge (since the Sacramento River bridges in Red Bluff are either I-5 or CA 36).
I think I can work a coast-to-coast route by now. I only need to get across Pennsylvania and meet with the OP's route across New Jersey to finish it. Thank God there's a bridge over the Susquehanna River at Harrisburg that doesn't form part of a numbered route (or at least a signed one).
Lots of ways to get across Indiana but I'm wondering what route you have.
I give up. I cannot find a route across the Appalachians (Pittsburgh to Harrisburg) without hitting a numbered road. It has proven impossible (for now, unless I'm missing something). Funny how I managed to get across the Wild West, yet I've hit a barrier in the East.
BTW, I've edited the post you quoted (as I corrected an attribution), so now it doesn't match.
Looks like we have a winner! I was getting stuck in the Breezewood area, however I decided to backtrack to near Pittsburgh, work my way towards Altoona, cross the (West Branch) Susquehanna at Watsontown, go back South and I managed to meet the noelbotevera's route across Jersey. Thus, the complete route entirely without using a numbered highway (State, US or Interstate) goes from Deal, New Jersey on the Atlantic shore to Shelter Cove, California on the Pacific shore, crossing 13 states (NJ, PA, OH, IN, IL, MO, KS, NE, WY, UT, ID, NV and CA). For even more fun I used a parking lot in Rochester PA in order to avoid touching a numbered route (either PA 18 or PA 68). I also made use of extensive of unpaved roads out West to make this possible.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 08, 2020, 05:55:37 PM
Looks like we have a winner! I was getting stuck in the Breezewood area, however I decided to backtrack to near Pittsburgh, work my way towards Altoona, cross the (West Branch) Susquehanna at Watsontown, go back South and I managed to meet the noelbotevera's route across Jersey. Thus, the complete route entirely without using a numbered highway (State, US or Interstate) goes from Deal, New Jersey on the Atlantic shore to Shelter Cove, California on the Pacific shore, crossing 13 states (NJ, PA, OH, IN, IL, MO, KS, NE, WY, UT, ID, NV and CA). For even more fun I used a parking lot in Rochester PA in order to avoid touching a numbered route (either PA 18 or PA 68). I also made use of extensive of unpaved roads out West to make this possible.
Your exact route? Like, make a list of routes on Google Maps or something?
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 08, 2020, 05:55:37 PM
Looks like we have a winner! I was getting stuck in the Breezewood area, however I decided to backtrack to near Pittsburgh, work my way towards Altoona, cross the (West Branch) Susquehanna at Watsontown, go back South and I managed to meet the noelbotevera's route across Jersey. Thus, the complete route entirely without using a numbered highway (State, US or Interstate) goes from Deal, New Jersey on the Atlantic shore to Shelter Cove, California on the Pacific shore, crossing 13 states (NJ, PA, OH, IN, IL, MO, KS, NE, WY, UT, ID, NV and CA). For even more fun I used a parking lot in Rochester PA in order to avoid touching a numbered route (either PA 18 or PA 68). I also made use of extensive of unpaved roads out West to make this possible.
Hurrah! Can you please share the exact route? Perhaps on Google Maps?
EDIT: Also, if I'm guessing the the same parking lot in Rochester you were thinking of, from Google Maps satellite view it's one-way: https://goo.gl/maps/DaKe9bFRxTPDbDyd9 . Unfortunately, I can't find any other way off the Madison St Bridge without hitting PA 18 or 68.
Well, the exact route isn't really defined in several places (notably Kansas and Nebraska, with all those grid roads I didn't bother to plot an exact route through that, but also through Illinois thanks to that damn Wabash river). I did this by eyeballing through OpenStreetMap, and as a result some dirt roads out west may not even be marked in Google Maps (e.g. Golconda-Winnemucca on a beeline across a mountain pass, thus avoiding I-80). Here is the approximate route:
Deal NJ (Atlantic shore)-New Brunswick-cross the Delaware at Riegelsville PA (this is the noelbotevera route)-New Philadelphia-cross the North branch Susquehanna at Mifflinville-cross the West branch Susquehanna at Watsontown, then follow to Lewisburg-State College-old US 220 to Altoona-old US 22 (thanks Pennsylvania for not giving new sign numbers to old routes :sombrero:)-Indiana PA-Latrobe-Pittsburgh suburbs (cross the Allegheny at the Hulton bridge)-Rochester PA (use that parking lot to get to the Rochester-Bridgewater bridge across the Beaver River)-Columbus OH suburbs-cross the Wabash near Williamsport IN-cross the Mississippi through either the MLK or Eads bridge-St. Roberts MO-cross the Osage atop Bagnell dam-proceed Northwest to the Platte river but stay South of it-cross the South Platte at Brule NE-proceed Northwest until hitting Wyoming (from here on mostly dirt roads were used)-cross I-25 at exit 87-Great Divide Basin (I knew this is the best way to cross the Continental Divide)-Randolph UT-Logan-Franklin ID-Plymouth UT-cross US 93 in Nevada North of I-80-cross ID 51 near the Grasmere reservoir-Golconda NV-Winnemucca (on that dirt road that isn't marked in Google Maps)-CA CR A3-cross the Sacramento river near Tehama CA (see post #56)-Red Bluff-Alderpoint-Shelter Cove (Pacific shore).
Extra bonus: This route doesn't cross either the Ohio or Missouri rivers.
EDIT: Corrected the route across Missouri.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 09, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Well, the exact route isn't really defined in several places (notably Kansas and Nebraska, with all those grid roads I didn't bother to plot an exact route through that, but also through Illinois thanks to that damn Wabash river). I did this by eyeballing through OpenStreetMap, and as a result some dirt roads out west may not even be marked in Google Maps (e.g. Golconda-Winnemucca on a beeline across a mountain pass, thus avoiding I-80). Here is the approximate route:
Deal NJ (Atlantic shore)-New Brunswick-cross the Delaware at Riegelsville PA (this is the noelbotevera route)-New Philadelphia-cross the North branch Susquehanna at Mifflinville-cross the West branch Susquehanna at Watsontown, then follow to Lewisburg-State College-old US 220 to Altoona-old US 22 (thanks Pennsylvania for not giving new sign numbers to old routes :sombrero:)-Indiana PA-Latrobe-Pittsburgh suburbs (cross the Allegheny at the Hulton bridge)-Rochester PA (use that parking lot to get to the Rochester-Bridgewater bridge across the Beaver River)-Columbus OH suburbs-cross the Wabash near Williamsport IN-cross the Mississippi through either the MLK or Eads bridge-cross the Gasconde River at Jerome MO-cross the Osage atop Bagnell dam-proceed Northwest to the Platte river but stay South of it-cross the South Platte at Brule NE-proceed Northwest until hitting Wyoming (from here on mostly dirt roads were used)-cross I-25 at exit 87-Great Divide Basin (I knew this is the best way to cross the Continental Divide)-Randolph UT-Logan-Franklin ID-Plymouth UT-cross US 93 in Nevada North of I-80-cross ID 51 near the Grasmere reservoir-Golconda NV-Winnemucca (on that dirt road that isn't marked in Google Maps)-CA CR A3-cross the Sacramento river near Tehama CA (see post #56)-Red Bluff-Alderpoint-Shelter Cove (Pacific shore).
Extra bonus: This route doesn't cross either the Ohio or Missouri rivers.
GG my friend.
Next challenge: Renumber China's expressway system as interstates?
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 08, 2020, 05:55:37 PM
Looks like we have a winner! I was getting stuck in the Breezewood area, however I decided to backtrack to near Pittsburgh, work my way towards Altoona, cross the (West Branch) Susquehanna at Watsontown, go back South and I managed to meet the noelbotevera's route across Jersey. Thus, the complete route entirely without using a numbered highway (State, US or Interstate) goes from Deal, New Jersey on the Atlantic shore to Shelter Cove, California on the Pacific shore, crossing 13 states (NJ, PA, OH, IN, IL, MO, KS, NE, WY, UT, ID, NV and CA). For even more fun I used a parking lot in Rochester PA in order to avoid touching a numbered route (either PA 18 or PA 68). I also made use of extensive of unpaved roads out West to make this possible.
Can you at least let me know how to get across the Continental Divide on your route?
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 09, 2020, 09:15:44 AMDeal NJ (Atlantic shore)-New Brunswick-cross the Delaware at Riegelsville PA (this is the noelbotevera route)-New Philadelphia-cross the North branch Susquehanna at Mifflinville-cross the West branch Susquehanna at Watsontown, then follow to Lewisburg-State College-old US 220 to Altoona-old US 22 (thanks Pennsylvania for not giving new sign numbers to old routes :sombrero:)-Indiana PA-Latrobe-Pittsburgh suburbs (cross the Allegheny at the Hulton bridge)-Rochester PA (use that parking lot to get to the Rochester-Bridgewater bridge across the Beaver River)-Columbus OH suburbs-cross the Wabash near Williamsport IN-cross the Mississippi through either the MLK or Eads bridge-cross the Gasconde River at Jerome MO-cross the Osage atop Bagnell dam-proceed Northwest to the Platte river but stay South of it-cross the South Platte at Brule NE-proceed Northwest until hitting Wyoming (from here on mostly dirt roads were used)-cross I-25 at exit 87-Great Divide Basin (I knew this is the best way to cross the Continental Divide)-Randolph UT-Logan-Franklin ID-Plymouth UT-cross US 93 in Nevada North of I-80-cross ID 51 near the Grasmere reservoir-Golconda NV-Winnemucca (on that dirt road that isn't marked in Google Maps)-CA CR A3-cross the Sacramento river near Tehama CA (see post #56)-Red Bluff-Alderpoint-Shelter Cove (Pacific shore).
Extra bonus: This route doesn't cross either the Ohio or Missouri rivers.
Congratulations! I started trying to follow your route but found a few issues:
* The Rochester PA parking lot is one-way, as I described upthread.
* Google Maps marks Old US 220 in PA as "Alt US 220", and the top of the Bagnell Dam as "Bus US 54". Fortunately, OP says we can ignore these, but it'd be nice to find another way.
* West of Jerome, MO, I'm having trouble finding a four-way intersection to cross MO 28. Do you remember where you did this?
* The Brule NE bridge across the South Platte is Nebraska Link 51A (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nebraska_Connecting_Link,_Spur,_and_Recreation_Highways#L51A), a signed secondary route. Again, OP says we can ignore these... but is there another bridge?
Well, the OP didn't specify it should be drivable in both ways. It would be hard to go around that parking lot, though, it would need to go all the way up to New Castle to cross the Beaver River (edit: it's not that hard after all). You're right about Jerome, after I discovered the bridge I had planned to use was actually MO 89 I went there and went East, but forgot to go West. However I found a workaround by continuing alongside I-44 to St. Roberts and then cross the Gasconde River at the end of MO Y (that route touches Bus I-44, though). Strangely OSM doesn't mark neither Alt US 220 (which is signed) nor Bus US 54. I managed to go around Alt US 220 by going through a golf course, and around NE Link 51A by dipping into Colorado and crossing the South Platte at (c)Ovid :sombrero:. Avoiding Bus US 54 requires a longer detour, though.
Quote from: kphoger on November 09, 2020, 02:30:56 PM
Can you at least let me know how to get across the Continental Divide on your route?
I use unpaved roads across the Great Divide Basin. Some may not even be marked in Google Maps (as I used OpenStreetMap to plot a route). I first identified that area as an easy route to cross the Divide (although Southwestern New Mexico looks easy as well, but then we got the Rio Grande and that huge military zone to the East), then suggested to use OSM... and then I decided to find a route by myself, first by going West to the Pacific, then back East to the Atlantic. Crossing the Appalachians turned out to be a huge PITA (even more so than the route across the Mountain West).
EDIT: I've found another way between Golconda and Winnemucca that doesn't require crossing a mountain range and is marked in Google Maps. And of course it isn't I-80 :sombrero:, but it's pretty close to it.
Quote from: Evan_Th on November 09, 2020, 02:49:59 PM
* West of Jerome, MO, I'm having trouble finding a four-way intersection to cross MO 28. Do you remember where you did this?
Follow the old US 66 (Outer Road - mostly parallel to I-44) to Missouri Av just outside Ft Wood, then north to wherever your route goes because you're now west of MO 28 at Dixon.
I spent all too much time today tracing out @CNGL-Leudimin's route on the map from beginning to end! Here's a somewhat-more-detailed list of waypoints, from Rochester PA (where I started keeping track) west:
* Rochester PA (use that parking lot to get to the Rochester-Bridgewater bridge across the Beaver River) EDIT: Or to avoid that one-way parking lot, dodge a bit upstream to New Brighton, use the Fallston Bridge there, and then cross PA 51 at 8th St and rejoin the previous route.
* Carrollton OH
* Uhricksville OH
* Port Washington, OH
* Ragersville, OH
* Appleton, OH
* Delaware, OH
* Bellefontaine, OH
* Port Jefferson, OH
* Eaton, IN
* Independence, IN, bridge across the Wabash
* Thomasboro IL
* Dalton City IL
* Greenville IL
* Grantfork IL
* Collinsville IL
* MLK or Eads bridge across the Mississippi at St. Louis
* Union MO
* St Clair MO ( NW side) - follow N Service Rd W
* St. Roberts, MO, and then cross the Gasconde River at the end of MO Y (that route touches Bus I-44, though)
* Iberia MO
* Ulman MO
* -cross the Osage atop Bagnell Dam (Alt US 54)
* Independence MO
* Kansas City
* Table Rock NE
* TECUMSEH NE
* HASTINGS NE
* HEARTWELL NE
* WELLFLEET NE
* cross the South Platte at Brule NE-
* Broadwater NE
* Scottsbluff NE (from here, a lot of dirt roads, following Open Streets Map - which I also had to use once in PA for a forest road not on Google Maps)
* Torrington WY
* cross I-25 at exit 87
* SINCLAIR WY
* GREEN RIVER, WY, in the Great Divide Basin
* Big Island Rd bridge over Green River, just north of Big Island, WY
* BLAZON JUNCTION, WY
* -Randolph UT
* Paradise, UT
* -Logan, UT
* -Franklin ID
* -Plymouth UT
* Snowville, UT
* -cross US 93 in Nevada North of I-80
* Red Elephant Butte (mountain peak), NV
* North edge Bruneau-Jarbidge Rivers Wilderness Area, ID
* -cross ID 51 near the Grasmere reservoir
* -Golconda NV
* -Winnemucca (on that dirt road that isn't marked in Google Maps)
* Jungo, NV
* decommissioned NV 34
* North border Poodle Mt Wilderness Study Area, NV
* -CA CR A3
* Buntingville, CA
* Westwood, Chester, and Paradise, Chico
* cross Sacramento River at Vina on South Ave / Rhode Island Ave (slightly south of CNGL-Leudimin's route that crosses it in Tehama)
*Red Bluff, and Alderpoint, CA
* Shelter Cove (Pacific shore).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 05, 2020, 07:37:35 PM
As far as getting you out of California it is doable so long as you originate south of CA 58. It takes some really badass roads to get to Arizona but it can be done. The truck is getting to either the Mojave or Sonoran Desert but not boxed into having to take a State Maintained road. An example I would use to get out of Los Angeles to the Mojave:
- San Fernando Road
- Sierra Highway
- Railroad Avenue
- Bouquet Canyon Road
- Seco Canyon Road
- Copper Hill Drive
- San Francisquito Canyon Road
That route would avoid the CA 14U segment of Sierra Highway. There is Los Angeles County Route N2 at Elizabeth Lake Road which must be joined, but that's not a state facility. From there think that I could come up with a route to Nevada via the Mojave Preserve. It might be possible via old rail siding and mine roads to head through the Sonoran Desert to cross into Arizona via Cibola. The Bradshaw Trail definitely is the way to go to get towards Cibola, so a more southerly route is probably needed for that.
The Los Angeles County roads are not marked much anyway are they?
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 05, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Don't forget that a lot of (most?) VA and NC backroads are secondaries, as well.
Every road in NC that is not a city road is a state secondary unless it is a primary state highway.
Quote from: Evan_Th on November 09, 2020, 08:24:13 PM
I spent all too much time today tracing out @CNGL-Leudimin's route on the map from beginning to end! Here's a somewhat-more-detailed list of waypoints, from Rochester PA (where I started keeping track) west:
Except I sketched my route to avoid Kansas City and to cross the Kansas river somewhere between Topeka and Manhattan. But kudos for finding a straighter route. Also, per your description it seems you cross the Great Divide Basin alongside (but not on) I-80, while my route does so closer to the historical Oregon Trail. And you cross the Wabash River upstream of Attica IN, while I did so downstream. And I didn't realize there was another unnumbered bridge across the Beaver River not far from the one that requires using a parking lot...
In addition, I think I didn't use any unpaved roads East of the Mississippi, but I have to double check Pennsylvania again.
Here's a link to the waypoints I listed above, on Google Maps! https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1LrEXo1akfSxw7BQ0xxZNF1XTvPtTCP5x&usp=sharing
Also, I dug into the Beaver River some more and discovered that the Fallston Bridge has been closed the last few years. I did graph a route through New Castle, but then I looked some more and discovered there's another parking lot that works with the original Madison St Bridge! You can cut through straight from the end of Monroe St (https://goo.gl/maps/9t7PxFi5xdXRotDKA) (crossing PA 18) through a gas station parking lot straight onto the bridge on Madison St (https://goo.gl/maps/4UWsXr1Du2ZYD8ub8). This isn't marked on the map, but Google and Bing street view agree it's possible. So, the Madison St Bridge is now again a possible route in both directions!
As I thought, your route deviates considerably from mine in some places. I had devised the route to go to Harrisonville MO, then in a straight shot (or more exactly, stairstepping) to near the Kearney Arch. I also have a more direct route across the Great Divide Basin to the Big Island Bridge, staying about 15-20 miles North of I-80. Finally, I had a different crossing of the Sierras (or they are the Cascades already? I'm not sure on how to call the main ridge between I-80 and Lassen Volcanic NP): From CR A3 I went Greenville-Seneca-Butte Meadows-McClure Place-Tehama.
I decided to recognize your routes across Ohio and Illinois, though, since they are more direct than I had.
To bump this topic again, I found another route, diverting at Kansas City to head through New Mexico and Arizona to meet the Pacific in Los Angeles! I added it to my same Google map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1LrEXo1akfSxw7BQ0xxZNF1XTvPtTCP5x&usp=sharing .
I used Max Rockatansky's route to cross the Colorado at Cibola, AZ. From there, it was a whole lot of dirt roads using OpenStreetMap. The hardest part was actually crossing the Rio Grande - I spent all too much time looking north of Albuquerque, and then trying to cross the mountains east of Albuquerque, before I noticed there were a couple bridges south of it that I could try. I eventually settled on the Pueblitos Rd bridge in Escondida.
Also, I mapped out routes to Mexico and Canada. Canada was very easy - just head north from the main cross-country route in Ohio to Detroit, and cross on the Ambassador Bridge. Mexico was a fair amount harder. It turns out there's only one unnumbered border crossing west of Texas, in Naco, AZ. Unfortunately, there's no route north of it without following a primary numbered highway. So, I needed to use the El Paso—Ysleta crossing on Zaragoza Road. I made it out of Texas without any F/M or R/M highways as soon as I could, and then headed north to my southwest route in New Mexico. There were a few dodges inside Fort Bliss and White Sands Missile Range, though, so I'm not sure you could drive it even if you have a car sturdy enough for the rest of these routes!
Quote from: Evan_Th on January 22, 2021, 06:34:46 PM
To bump this topic again, I found another route, diverting at Kansas City to head through New Mexico and Arizona to meet the Pacific in Los Angeles! I added it to my same Google map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1LrEXo1akfSxw7BQ0xxZNF1XTvPtTCP5x&usp=sharing .
I used Max Rockatansky's route to cross the Colorado at Cibola, AZ. From there, it was a whole lot of dirt roads using OpenStreetMap. The hardest part was actually crossing the Rio Grande - I spent all too much time looking north of Albuquerque, and then trying to cross the mountains east of Albuquerque, before I noticed there were a couple bridges south of it that I could try. I eventually settled on the Pueblitos Rd bridge in Escondida.
Also, I mapped out routes to Mexico and Canada. Canada was very easy - just head north from the main cross-country route in Ohio to Detroit, and cross on the Ambassador Bridge. Mexico was a fair amount harder. It turns out there's only one unnumbered border crossing west of Texas, in Naco, AZ. Unfortunately, there's no route north of it without following a primary numbered highway. So, I needed to use the El Paso—Ysleta crossing on Zaragoza Road. I made it out of Texas without any F/M or R/M highways as soon as I could, and then headed north to my southwest route in New Mexico. There were a few dodges inside Fort Bliss and White Sands Missile Range, though, so I'm not sure you could drive it even if you have a car sturdy enough for the rest of these routes!
GG mate. :nod: Got any ideas for a new challenge?
When I saw this thread again I immediately started looking again, this time to see if there was any unnumbered, direct way from US 93 to Golconda NV. I went down to Elko and made it through to Carlin, but I got stuck just West. Guess I'll still have to detour to Idaho then.
EDIT: I've found a route mainly consisting of tracks that are unmarked in both Google Maps and OpenStreetMap, but satellite pictures confirm it does exist. It has to follow closely an electric line in order to get past Emigrant Pass (the totally unmarked section), then detour North before going back to run alongside I-80 between Rixies and Valmy, then cross the Humboldt river again to rejoin the original route East of Golconda.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on January 23, 2021, 03:42:58 PM
tracks that are unmarked in both Google Maps and OpenStreetMap, but satellite pictures confirm it does exist.
Have you confirmed that those tracks are on fenced-in private property?
Bumping this thread again because I've found a straighter route across the Midwest, without needing to bump down to Missouri. From the South Platte River crossing at Brule, Nebraska and going East:
- Cross again the Platte River at Maxwell, then stay North of it.
- Cross the Missouri River at Bellevue, then cross Iowa on its many county roads.
- Cross the Mississippi River across Rock Island, on the route proposed by Evan_Th.
- Cross the Fox River at Ottawa, then the Illinois River at Marseilles, then proceed Southeast and rejoin the original route near Attica, Indiana.
Has this type of challenge been attempted driving between US and Canada?
Quote from: chays on September 09, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Has this type of challenge been attempted driving between US and Canada?
Wdym?
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on September 13, 2021, 07:39:08 AM
Quote from: chays on September 09, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Has this type of challenge been attempted driving between US and Canada?
Wdym?
I assume he means north-south, border to border. Your original challenge is east-west.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on September 13, 2021, 12:10:49 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on September 13, 2021, 07:39:08 AM
Quote from: chays on September 09, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Has this type of challenge been attempted driving between US and Canada?
Wdym?
I assume he means north-south, border to border. Your original challenge is east-west.
I did that earlier and mentioned it upthread:
Quote from: Evan_Th on January 22, 2021, 06:34:46 PM
To bump this topic again, I found another route, diverting at Kansas City to head through New Mexico and Arizona to meet the Pacific in Los Angeles! I added it to my same Google map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1LrEXo1akfSxw7BQ0xxZNF1XTvPtTCP5x&usp=sharing .
I used Max Rockatansky's route to cross the Colorado at Cibola, AZ. From there, it was a whole lot of dirt roads using OpenStreetMap. The hardest part was actually crossing the Rio Grande - I spent all too much time looking north of Albuquerque, and then trying to cross the mountains east of Albuquerque, before I noticed there were a couple bridges south of it that I could try. I eventually settled on the Pueblitos Rd bridge in Escondida.
Also, I mapped out routes to Mexico and Canada. Canada was very easy - just head north from the main cross-country route in Ohio to Detroit, and cross on the Ambassador Bridge. Mexico was a fair amount harder. It turns out there's only one unnumbered border crossing west of Texas, in Naco, AZ. Unfortunately, there's no route north of it without following a primary numbered highway. So, I needed to use the El Paso—Ysleta crossing on Zaragoza Road. I made it out of Texas without any F/M or R/M highways as soon as I could, and then headed north to my southwest route in New Mexico. There were a few dodges inside Fort Bliss and White Sands Missile Range, though, so I'm not sure you could drive it even if you have a car sturdy enough for the rest of these routes!
On another note, I decided to extend this challenge to get to as many states as possible within the same parameters as the OP - not using any numbered unbannered interstate, US, or state highways.
I've gotten to 39 of the 48 contiguous states, and added the routes to my same Google map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1LrEXo1akfSxw7BQ0xxZNF1XTvPtTCP5x&ll=39.02542610973305%2C-97.59517298526919&z=5
The biggest gap is in the Deep South, where the Mississippi and Ohio rivers can't be crossed below Pittsburgh. Further east, the West Virginian mountains and Virginia's practice of numbering just about every road keep me from making progress. However, I can pick up Kentucky (thanks to the Ohio changing course leaving a bit of it north of the modern river), West Virginia (from Pittsburgh), and Virginia (thanks to one usable crossing of the Potomac: the Arlington Memorial Bridge.) Also, I haven't yet gotten to Maine, or to Louisiana and Tennessee (there's a bit of Tennessee west of the Mississippi, but in both cases, Arkansas is hard to get through).
Virginia and North Carolina do distinguish between primary and secondary state-numbered highways, so if I bend the rules to allow secondary VA and NC highways, I can also pick up NC, SC, and TN. However, there's no unnumbered crossing of the SC-GA border. And, I haven't yet found any route through the Appalachians to let me get to the NC-GA border, or through TN to let me at other states beyond it.
(Alaska and Hawaii, of course, are impossible here. There's no road to Hawaii, and all the roads to Alaska are numbered in Canada. Of course, if we allow all Canadian highways, we could go from either border crossing on my main route to the unnumbered International St in Hyder... but that's cheating.)
If anyone else can pick up any more states, please let me know!
By the same bending of rules you should be able to get to Louisiana through Texas and its many FM roads.