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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: TheHighwayMan3561 on January 17, 2021, 02:32:29 AM

Title: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on January 17, 2021, 02:32:29 AM
I was researching the "floppy green things" thread. In Minnetonka, MN where I-494 meets I-394, on the south side of the interchange along 494 the high median barrier from the 2006 rebuild just...stops, and a series of temporary construction barriers takes over and fills the gap to the bridges over 394. Since it's been like that for 15 years, I imagine there aren't any plans to fix it. So what are your favorite jury rigs and "F it that works just as well"?

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9681632,-93.4605961,3a,75y,91.02h,83.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8h40KoBTehvNH7iFTWLEyQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: SectorZ on January 17, 2021, 08:04:27 AM
In Lowell, MA, a temporary bridge was put up in 1983. It's still there.

http://bridgehunter.com/ma/middlesex/rourke/
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: 1995hoo on January 17, 2021, 04:19:46 PM
How about this street name in Reston?

https://goo.gl/maps/sbyKotA1ctQ2JRLK6
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Occidental Tourist on January 17, 2021, 11:15:33 PM
On the 5 freeway in Irvine, California, they replaced the Barranca Parkway bridge to add a northbound on and off ramp for the carpool lane.  There were future plans to add a southbound on and on ramp as well.  Because of this, there's been temporary k-rail in place south of the bridge for about 20 years, which merges into the freeway's original center divider.

(https://i.imgur.com/pJ9Lp5l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qmOWVk7.jpg)

Edit: the bridge was built 30 years ago.  Time flies.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 17, 2021, 11:23:01 PM
California State Route 1 being routed from Rockport to Leggett was meant to be temporary but didn't become legislatively official until 1984. 
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: SkyPesos on January 17, 2021, 11:39:58 PM
dulles airport concourse c/d
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Roadrunner75 on January 18, 2021, 01:07:07 AM
"Temporary" Route 41 in NJ:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8769714,-75.0490863,3a,16.6y,42.27h,90.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYLTCycRvphDAfYePrtd7ZQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8769714,-75.0490863,3a,16.6y,42.27h,90.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYLTCycRvphDAfYePrtd7ZQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: TheStranger on January 18, 2021, 02:02:17 AM
California examples:

In San Francisco, US 101 from South Van Ness Avenue/Duboce Avenue north to Fell Street was a temporary routing in the mid-1950s as the Central Freeway was being built to its furthest extent at Turk/Franklin Streets, but when the segment north of Fell was demolished after the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, that temporary routing was permanently revived and is still in use to this day (and signed).

There's that spot Route 25 south of Hollister somewhere with a weird detour loop put in due to a landslide, which is still in place as of now:
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118943332_10109011242804013_6420835277477373026_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=KmzEwOHHvkwAX9OwA55&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=086b5a57882a2130bb1b3877376c94b5&oe=602B8EB9)
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118863302_10109011242828963_879186534036075937_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=_kCW1TUs6ycAX8cbMPq&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=bdc85a761b3ee517a78fa74b1795eb45&oe=602982AD)

In Oxnard, Route 232 remains on Vineyard Avenue (which connects Route 118 with the now-former Route 1/Oxnard Boulevard), even though part of the planning for Route 1's Rice Avenue realignment was to have 232 moved to Santa Clara Avenue (which directly connects Rice with Route 118).

One that is entirely on paper and not reflective of real-life signage: the portion of Route 19 north of Pico Rivera has been legislatively part of Route 164 (a designation for a planned, but never-to-be-constructed freeway) since 1964, yet has retained the same Route 19 signage in the field that it has held since 1934!

Route 262 in Fremont along Mission Boulevard is an interesting situation (and that's before getting into the many different route numbers that stretch has held) - it was supposed to be de-designated once Route 237 was built as freeway in Milpitas between 880 and 680, but with the latter pretty much a non-starter, 262 instead is now a candidate for a full freeway upgrade (which had originally been proposed in the 1960s when the route was part of I-680).

Route 12 in Santa Rosa following Farmers Lane to 4th Street was supposed to be a short-lived link between a completed freeway portion and the Sonoma Highway - but the cancellation of a freeway segment that would have bisected Spring Lake Park instead made this the permanent alignment.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: 1995hoo on January 18, 2021, 09:15:57 AM
PA-23 at the "Goat Path": https://goo.gl/maps/DES5g1LJ7N2hD85B9

And in Bridgeport: https://goo.gl/maps/y4qQN7rVxnPLd89E6
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: formulanone on January 18, 2021, 09:43:34 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 18, 2021, 09:15:57 AM
And in Bridgeport: https://goo.gl/maps/y4qQN7rVxnPLd89E6

Looks like good fun on a fair day with no traffic, and a nightmare bottleneck in literally every other situation.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: ErmineNotyours on January 18, 2021, 11:55:07 AM
On I-5 between Kent-Des Moines Road and Federal Way, the state widened bridges in anticipation of an HOV lane.  This was shortly after the state had rebuilt the rails on each bridge to make them stronger.  After the bridges were widened, an initiative passed that took away money, so the state simply paved a shoulder and narrowed the lanes, not using the extra space on the bridges.  Shame.  The bridges still bear the 1959 date even though they have been partially rebuilt. (https://goo.gl/maps/79D7uV9EJpFFhLXp7)
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: vdeane on January 18, 2021, 08:50:50 PM
Over in Cornwall, ON, this happened to customs at the Seaway International Bridge.  Canadian customs used to be over on Cornwall Island (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9979576,-74.7400789,3a,40.2y,24.38h,86.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX71jdApA2gWa_nJloduDCg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).  After the First Nation protested a plan to have CBSA agents carry firearms (a protest that made them fear for the safety, resulting in them being evacuated through the US), customs "temporarily" moved to the mainland.  Here's the very temporary setup from 2009 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0213302,-74.7463963,3a,88.2y,217.04h,91.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suhi0KiqM8QKtF6wh5Zsh8A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).  By 2012 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0213692,-74.7463668,3a,75y,325.01h,85.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1st_pbMbMMRyYul_NZl90ZAA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), the "temporary" customs plaza had been built on the mainland (cutting off the local street), and the toll barrier (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0213692,-74.7463668,3a,75y,174.11h,89.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1st_pbMbMMRyYul_NZl90ZAA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) had moved to the mainland as well for some reason.
There was also a facility for secondary inspection (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0232144,-74.7465205,3a,75y,151.3h,87.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suvpSPaen_rjrM_SiszfwEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in a nearby lot.  When the bridge itself was replaced with a much lower (and shorter) replacement, another (officially) "temporary" facility (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0104337,-74.7377508,3a,75.9y,77.56h,95.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLT2dG_m-9bOYK-4mXI7jBA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) was built, looking even more permanent than the last.  I don't expect customs to move from here anytime soon - if ever.  I don't think they want to go back to the island even if they got an agreement.  The toll barrier (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0100282,-74.7393029,3a,79.2y,7.48h,77.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTfw2I2WYFAvVj909lD3vOg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) also remains on the mainland.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: ErmineNotyours on January 18, 2021, 09:33:45 PM
The Hogarth Flyover (https://www.roads.org.uk/photo/hogarth-flyover)  :paranoid:
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: wanderer2575 on January 18, 2021, 09:38:00 PM
"Temporary" OH-37 truck route in Delaware, Ohio.

https://goo.gl/maps/HWKU9pySoT2bvEaV9
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Occidental Tourist on January 19, 2021, 02:00:56 AM
When the 55 Freeway was expanded in 2002, the Meats Avenue bridge in Orange, California was rebuilt.  There were plans to add a freeway interchange there, and thus the rebuilt bridge was wider than was necessary for traffic crossing over the freeway.  The need for a new interchange has never materialized, so 18 years later the southern side of the bridge remains unused.

(https://i.imgur.com/h3VyypT.jpg)
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: ErmineNotyours on January 19, 2021, 12:40:43 PM
Washington 513 is the remnant of the canceled Thompson Expressway.  It has one trailblazing sign along the whole route. (https://goo.gl/maps/JxhRJEf5KKcX5xTX7)  It only connects to SR 520, and there isn't even a sign for it there.

This sign for I-90 Temp stayed up for about 30 years after the completed alignment of I-90 became permanent.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7922/46250112214_82cf4c8ec3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dsXV2Q)
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: TheGrassGuy on January 24, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
COVID masks and social distancing
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: sprjus4 on January 24, 2021, 01:00:42 PM
"Future"  I-26 north of Asheville, NC.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: hotdogPi on January 24, 2021, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on January 24, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
COVID masks and social distancing

It's not permanent. The 1918 flu lasted until 1920, and everything went back to normal after that. It hasn't been that long yet.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Henry on January 25, 2021, 11:32:08 AM
The north end of the Stony Island Avenue expressway at 95th Street. (IIRC, that was to make up the southern terminus of I-694, which was the original I-494)
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: webny99 on January 25, 2021, 03:13:22 PM
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5655051,-77.7150273,3a,19.8y,304.3h,86.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgWWDRwThuruDQ8bg-dnd6g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: vdeane on January 25, 2021, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 25, 2021, 03:13:22 PM
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5655051,-77.7150273,3a,19.8y,304.3h,86.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgWWDRwThuruDQ8bg-dnd6g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
It's interesting that there's one right on I-390, given how I tend to think of Québec (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.4962194,-68.5103034,3a,32.9y,288.26h,86.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swXS7eXF0v-QEK6IZLCBjzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) with those things.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 11:05:58 AM
The western outer bypass of Nuevo Laredo was twinned... ummmm... maybe ten years ago or so?  This interchange/overpass (https://goo.gl/maps/Pp6qBgjqoJ6wiX54A) and this industrial access (https://goo.gl/maps/Qaoufa5q75yY5NcW6) were never twinned as far as I know, and I'm beginning to wonder if the 'temporary' median crossovers have become permanent.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: PHLBOS on January 26, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
Would this one (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Peabody,+MA/@42.5422643,-70.9873332,1041m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e3125bb7f609f1:0xe0c86ab48e23439f!8m2!3d42.5278731!4d-70.9286609) count?  The interchange ramps, particularly on the US 1 side, were initially built as a temporary means to allow for usage of the newer Danvers stretch of I-95 that opened circa 1974. 

The original plan for this interchange only called for the opposite movement ramps (I-95 north to US 1 north & US 1 south to I-95 south) to what was actually built.  Since the plan to build I-95 south of MA 128 in this area was cancelled (I-95 ran along most of MA 128 as a result); the then-MassDPW saw no reason to convert the interim partial interchange to the originally-planned partial interchange.  The ramps at the I-95 end were modified when the Interstate was finally extended to MA 128 circa 1988. 

In the above-Google Maps Image; if one looks just south of the interchange adjacent to I-95 southbound, one sees a narrow dirt road/path that would've been where the planned US 1 south/I-95 south ramp was to go.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Roadrunner75 on January 27, 2021, 02:07:51 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 25, 2021, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 25, 2021, 03:13:22 PM
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5655051,-77.7150273,3a,19.8y,304.3h,86.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgWWDRwThuruDQ8bg-dnd6g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
It's interesting that there's one right on I-390, given how I tend to think of Québec (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.4962194,-68.5103034,3a,32.9y,288.26h,86.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swXS7eXF0v-QEK6IZLCBjzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) with those things.
Probably just left in place as an emergency cross-over.   We have a few in NJ - The most obvious are the crossovers at the Delaware Memorial Bridge to allow both directions to use one of the bridges:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6821672,-75.4980044,394m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6821672,-75.4980044,394m/data=!3m1!1e3)

Also, here's one on I-195, that could serve as an emergency crossover for evacuations from the shore using both roadways (even has the "Emergency Crossover" sign):
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1825594,-74.5611523,3a,46.7y,325.89h,92.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soMMBpRbKVe8cG24us6ib1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1825594,-74.5611523,3a,46.7y,325.89h,92.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soMMBpRbKVe8cG24us6ib1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

Quote from: PHLBOS on January 26, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
Would this one (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Peabody,+MA/@42.5422643,-70.9873332,1041m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e3125bb7f609f1:0xe0c86ab48e23439f!8m2!3d42.5278731!4d-70.9286609) count? 
Zoom in and see the truck that didn't handle the ramp very well....
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: GenExpwy on January 27, 2021, 04:36:15 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on January 27, 2021, 02:07:51 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 25, 2021, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 25, 2021, 03:13:22 PM
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5655051,-77.7150273,3a,19.8y,304.3h,86.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgWWDRwThuruDQ8bg-dnd6g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
It's interesting that there's one right on I-390, given how I tend to think of Québec (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.4962194,-68.5103034,3a,32.9y,288.26h,86.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swXS7eXF0v-QEK6IZLCBjzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) with those things.
Probably just left in place as an emergency cross-over.   We have a few in NJ - The most obvious are the crossovers at the Delaware Memorial Bridge to allow both directions to use one of the bridges:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6821672,-75.4980044,394m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6821672,-75.4980044,394m/data=!3m1!1e3)

The thing was built – gosh, how long ago? 15 or 20 years maybe? – for the project to put blacktop on top of the original Portland cement concrete between exits 5 and 6 (with two-way traffic on one side while they worked on the other). The crossovers near exit 6 were properly removed, so this one has always seemed bizarre.

By comparison, this crossover area at exit 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5397992,-77.6006285,3a,75y,264.1h,86.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQeZXyULudZFrjN3n-J1eDg!2e0!5s20171101T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1) was built 5 years ago for the two-year concrete reconstruction between Wayland and Cohocton. When it wasn't removed I thought "oh no, not again"  – but the following year it was reused for the re-decking of the bridges over CR 90 (seen here), which probably saved a little money.

So maybe they kept the Dansville crossover in anticipation of a bridge project that still hasn't happened.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: CoreySamson on January 27, 2021, 11:20:33 AM
TX-288 just north of the 610 interchange looked like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6819839,-95.3805538,3a,75y,11.9h,79.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5rY8evbLV_aZEgj-em1MBg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) for years until the toll lane project started. Why they ran 288 the way they did instead of running it through the middle just seems temporary (and it kinda was, but this existed for so long that I think it qualifies for the thread).
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 27, 2021, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on January 27, 2021, 02:07:51 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 25, 2021, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 25, 2021, 03:13:22 PM
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5655051,-77.7150273,3a,19.8y,304.3h,86.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgWWDRwThuruDQ8bg-dnd6g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
It's interesting that there's one right on I-390, given how I tend to think of Québec (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.4962194,-68.5103034,3a,32.9y,288.26h,86.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swXS7eXF0v-QEK6IZLCBjzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) with those things.
Probably just left in place as an emergency cross-over.   We have a few in NJ - The most obvious are the crossovers at the Delaware Memorial Bridge to allow both directions to use one of the bridges:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6821672,-75.4980044,394m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6821672,-75.4980044,394m/data=!3m1!1e3)

This is a concept that, while true at one point, the DRBA long abandoned the thought for anything but the most ultra-serious need.

When the 2nd Delaware Memorial Bridge was opened, it had 2 way traffic to allow the original bridge to be rehabbed.  When both bridges were fully opened, the crossovers were fully designed to allow traffic to switch between the 2 bridges at a moment's notice, including full overhead signage.  However, that was all removed in the 1990's.   In the aerial view above, you can see all signage has been removed.  There's a concrete jersey barrier preventing a smooth transition.  On the bridge, the lane indicator lights have been removed for contraflow traffic: https://goo.gl/maps/73TmWbrvkfPcpeZk9 .

I think the most obvious example of the DRBA having no interest in temporary traffic diversions was in 2016, when 3 lanes were shut down to replace 3 cables that were deemed an immediate priority.  They could've gone 2+2 on one bridge to close down the affected bridge, but didn't.  Adding to this since these bridge were fully open, the Commodore Barry Bridge was built, which can serve to detour traffic away from the Delaware Memorial Bridge as well

So with all of this in mind, the only reason why the DRBA would want to put 2 way traffic on one bridge would be in the event of a massive bridge failure to 1 of the 2 bridges.  And even that won't be a quick changeover...no doubt they would want to make sure the usable bridge is safe, and will probably need temp jersey construction barriers across the bridge to separate the 2 way traffic.

It should also be noted that other than when the 2nd bridge first opened, I've never seen any evidence that the crossovers were ever used.

Quote
Also, here's one on I-195, that could serve as an emergency crossover for evacuations from the shore using both roadways (even has the "Emergency Crossover" sign):
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1825594,-74.5611523,3a,46.7y,325.89h,92.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soMMBpRbKVe8cG24us6ib1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1825594,-74.5611523,3a,46.7y,325.89h,92.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soMMBpRbKVe8cG24us6ib1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

A complementary crossover on 138 between the GSP & 18 was built around the same time as well.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: PurdueBill on January 27, 2021, 01:31:25 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on January 27, 2021, 02:07:51 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 25, 2021, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 25, 2021, 03:13:22 PM
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5655051,-77.7150273,3a,19.8y,304.3h,86.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgWWDRwThuruDQ8bg-dnd6g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
It's interesting that there's one right on I-390, given how I tend to think of Québec (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.4962194,-68.5103034,3a,32.9y,288.26h,86.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swXS7eXF0v-QEK6IZLCBjzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) with those things.
Probably just left in place as an emergency cross-over.   We have a few in NJ - The most obvious are the crossovers at the Delaware Memorial Bridge to allow both directions to use one of the bridges:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6821672,-75.4980044,394m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6821672,-75.4980044,394m/data=!3m1!1e3)

Also, here's one on I-195, that could serve as an emergency crossover for evacuations from the shore using both roadways (even has the "Emergency Crossover" sign):
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1825594,-74.5611523,3a,46.7y,325.89h,92.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soMMBpRbKVe8cG24us6ib1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1825594,-74.5611523,3a,46.7y,325.89h,92.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soMMBpRbKVe8cG24us6ib1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

Quote from: PHLBOS on January 26, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
Would this one (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Peabody,+MA/@42.5422643,-70.9873332,1041m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e3125bb7f609f1:0xe0c86ab48e23439f!8m2!3d42.5278731!4d-70.9286609) count? 
Zoom in and see the truck that didn't handle the ramp very well....


This is the one! (https://www.wcvb.com/article/tractor-trailer-rollover-forces-closure-of-route-1-ramp-to-i-95/28760273)  Bet they never thought they'd be immortalized in aerial view. 

It seems like there are more rollovers there than there should be.  The curvature was nice back when temporarily the exit to I-95 NB was to the left off of US 1 NB, using the existing SB ramp and overpass, but that was when southbound was closed for a couple years and detoured onto US 1 from Exit 50 southward.  The temporary NB connection, before work started to connect to 128, was a lot smoother curve. 
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: 1995hoo on January 27, 2021, 03:03:38 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on January 27, 2021, 02:07:51 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 25, 2021, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 25, 2021, 03:13:22 PM
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5655051,-77.7150273,3a,19.8y,304.3h,86.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgWWDRwThuruDQ8bg-dnd6g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
It's interesting that there's one right on I-390, given how I tend to think of Québec (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.4962194,-68.5103034,3a,32.9y,288.26h,86.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swXS7eXF0v-QEK6IZLCBjzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) with those things.
Probably just left in place as an emergency cross-over.   We have a few in NJ - The most obvious are the crossovers at the Delaware Memorial Bridge to allow both directions to use one of the bridges:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6821672,-75.4980044,394m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6821672,-75.4980044,394m/data=!3m1!1e3)

....

In a similar vein to that, for many years Route 236 just west of Annandale, Virginia, had these paved crossovers blocked with jersey walls on either side of the Beltway overpass: https://goo.gl/maps/yMKfRLeYYXfFXPtS8 (it should be showing you the 2008 Street View; if not, click into that year). You can click ahead to the other side of the overpass to see the other one. Those were there because sometime back in the 1980s there was one of a series of fiery crashes involving an overturned tanker truck going to or from the tank farm in Fairfax City (https://goo.gl/maps/AYuqeWSA5duxHgpF7) and the fire was intense enough that one of the bridges had to be closed for repairs. After the repair was done, they simply blocked the crossovers with barriers and left them there for almost 30 years until the overpasses were replaced as part of the HO/T lanes project on the Beltway. During that construction, they built larger crossovers for a while as all traffic used one bridge while the other was demolished, then after that all traffic used the new bridge while they repeated the process. After it was all done, they finally removed the crossovers and paved median altogether.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: PHLBOS on January 27, 2021, 03:41:38 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on January 27, 2021, 01:31:25 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on January 27, 2021, 02:07:51 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 26, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
Would this one (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Peabody,+MA/@42.5422643,-70.9873332,1041m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e3125bb7f609f1:0xe0c86ab48e23439f!8m2!3d42.5278731!4d-70.9286609) count? 
Zoom in and see the truck that didn't handle the ramp very well....

This is the one! (https://www.wcvb.com/article/tractor-trailer-rollover-forces-closure-of-route-1-ramp-to-i-95/28760273)  Bet they never thought they'd be immortalized in aerial view.
Such must've just recently happen.  When I first made that post, the previous aerial view showed little or not traffic. 

Quote from: PurdueBill on January 27, 2021, 01:31:25 PM
It seems like there are more rollovers there than there should be.  The curvature was nice back when temporarily the exit to I-95 NB was to the left off of US 1 NB, using the existing SB ramp and overpass, but that was when southbound was closed for a couple years and detoured onto US 1 from Exit 50 southward.  The temporary NB connection, before work started to connect to 128, was a lot smoother curve.
Historic Aerials for that area circa 1978 shows the old/temporary connection as well as what would've been the original ramp connections, including a flyover ramp, to I-95 (then not fully built).
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: STLmapboy on January 30, 2021, 02:12:20 PM
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.148122,-87.4503015,3a,75y,5.74h,80.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHsFJArhsq7YrmRR-Ym7cDw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) section of Buttermilk Rd in Tuscaloosa.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: SSR_317 on March 07, 2021, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on January 19, 2021, 02:00:56 AM
When the 55 Freeway was expanded in 2002, the Meats Avenue bridge in Orange, California was rebuilt.  There were plans to add a freeway interchange there, and thus the rebuilt bridge was wider than was necessary for traffic crossing over the freeway.  The need for a new interchange has never materialized, so 18 years later the southern side of the bridge remains unused.

(https://i.imgur.com/h3VyypT.jpg)
Given the current "craze" to re-brand, is there any future plan to change Meats Avenue to "Proteins Avenue"?  :bigass:
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: RobbieL2415 on March 08, 2021, 12:41:40 PM
US 9's alignment onto the GSP at Somers Point/Beasley's Point was intended to be temporary, as the Beasley's Point Bridge, a private bridge, was closed in 2004 due do being in poor condition. The owner's didn't want to sink any money into it, so it was left to rot and the alignment truly became permanent when the bridge was demolished c. 2016.

No big loss, IMO.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: mrsman on March 09, 2021, 12:38:30 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on March 08, 2021, 12:41:40 PM
US 9's alignment onto the GSP at Somers Point/Beasley's Point was intended to be temporary, as the Beasley's Point Bridge, a private bridge, was closed in 2004 due do being in poor condition. The owner's didn't want to sink any money into it, so it was left to rot and the alignment truly became permanent when the bridge was demolished c. 2016.

No big loss, IMO.

Is this section of the GSP toll? 
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: RobbieL2415 on March 09, 2021, 03:32:02 PM
Yes, southbound there's a toll plaza.
The old bridge was tolled also.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Occidental Tourist on July 02, 2021, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: SSR_317 on March 07, 2021, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on January 19, 2021, 02:00:56 AM
When the 55 Freeway was expanded in 2002, the Meats Avenue bridge in Orange, California was rebuilt.  There were plans to add a freeway interchange there, and thus the rebuilt bridge was wider than was necessary for traffic crossing over the freeway.  The need for a new interchange has never materialized, so 18 years later the southern side of the bridge remains unused.

(https://i.imgur.com/h3VyypT.jpg)
Given the current "craze" to re-brand, is there any future plan to change Meats Avenue to "Proteins Avenue"?  :bigass:
No, but a recent perusal of OCTA's website shows that the on-ramp project isn't dead.  It's programmed to be built in 2055.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: hbelkins on July 02, 2021, 03:00:58 PM
Isn't there a Bailey bridge or some sort of temporary structure on one of the NH/VT river crossings that has more or less become permanent?
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: JCinSummerfield on July 06, 2021, 02:22:14 PM
I believe there are some that were put up during construction on US-23 northbound near US-30 that became permanent.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2021, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on January 24, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
COVID masks and social distancing
Masks and distancing are dying out at least in my area.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: SectorZ on July 06, 2021, 03:24:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2021, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on January 24, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
COVID masks and social distancing
Masks and distancing are dying out at least in my area.

Went to the Square One Mall in Saugus this weekend and that place can move your thinking on whether masks are dying out.

The same goobers will literally stand 6 inches from you, so distancing is dead...
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: JoePCool14 on July 07, 2021, 08:23:29 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on July 06, 2021, 03:24:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2021, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on January 24, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
COVID masks and social distancing
Masks and distancing are dying out at least in my area.

Went to the Square One Mall in Saugus this weekend and that place can move your thinking on whether masks are dying out.

The same goobers will literally stand 6 inches from you, so distancing is dead...

Yeah, it depends on the area. People haven't "social distanced" for a long time now (many months). Probably close to 50% of customers at my store still wear masks, even though I'm guessing 100% of them are vaccinated.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2021, 08:49:32 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 07, 2021, 08:23:29 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on July 06, 2021, 03:24:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2021, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on January 24, 2021, 12:57:03 PM
COVID masks and social distancing
Masks and distancing are dying out at least in my area.

Went to the Square One Mall in Saugus this weekend and that place can move your thinking on whether masks are dying out.

The same goobers will literally stand 6 inches from you, so distancing is dead...

Yeah, it depends on the area. People haven't "social distanced" for a long time now (many months). Probably close to 50% of customers at my store still wear masks, even though I'm guessing 100% of them are vaccinated.

Locally in Fresno probably about 80% of people don't wear masks or adhere to anything COVID protocol related.  Was a complete 180 degree turn when we visited Oakland and the Bay Area last weekend for an A's game.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 09:00:35 AM
Around my area, I assume those still wearing masks are those that cannot or refuse to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: jemacedo9 on July 07, 2021, 09:29:15 AM
Do we really have to turn this thread into a mask debate/discussion/recap/etc?
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 11:28:22 AM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on July 07, 2021, 09:29:15 AM
Do we really have to turn this thread into a mask debate/discussion/recap/etc?
Too late.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2021, 12:04:16 PM
These are part of my everyday commute, all on US-290/SH-71 west of Austin:

Where the freeway ends and traffic is diverted onto an exit ramp. (https://goo.gl/maps/r9n8XGY8SjikEydD9)  This used to be stripped as one lane, then some TxDOT official moved out that way and decided it needed to be two lanes years after it should have been.

This stupid continuous-flow intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/fvTWdScEqSQxeSaF9) and this equally stupid one (https://goo.gl/maps/NmETxX2YHuhwLQvn9) were built by TxDOT 10000000% knowing they were temporary, despite their polished and aesthetically pleasing design.  These examples are of course in the course of the US-290 freeway extension that first was mentioned and began displacing businesses in the mid 1980s (including the "vacant" parking areas in the second link which are actually footprints of old buildings).  The end of the freeway was built 23 years ago and the continuous-flow intersections were built about 2015.  This is the reason I want an interstate to run along the SH-71/US-290 corridor.  Planning an interstate may actually get the freeway projects that we have been in huge need of, that have been planned since the 80s, actually built!  I hate this part of my commute.  It is so half assed it makes me sick. 
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 09:00:35 AM
Around my area, I assume those still wearing masks are those that cannot or refuse to get vaccinated.
Not the case I don't think.

Quote from: jemacedo9 on July 07, 2021, 09:29:15 AM
Do we really have to turn this thread into a mask debate/discussion/recap/etc?
That's what happens when all the other covid threads get locked
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 01:23:07 PM


Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 09:00:35 AM
Around my area, I assume those still wearing masks are those that cannot or refuse to get vaccinated.
Not the case I don't think.

Why not?

Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: hotdogPi on July 07, 2021, 01:33:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 01:23:07 PM


Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 09:00:35 AM
Around my area, I assume those still wearing masks are those that cannot or refuse to get vaccinated.
Not the case I don't think.

Why not?

Those that are waiting, yes. Those that refuse, no.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 07, 2021, 01:33:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 01:23:07 PM


Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 09:00:35 AM
Around my area, I assume those still wearing masks are those that cannot or refuse to get vaccinated.
Not the case I don't think.

Why not?

Those that are waiting, yes. Those that refuse, no.
At this point nobody is still waiting.

Quote from: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 01:23:07 PM


Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 07, 2021, 09:00:35 AM
Around my area, I assume those still wearing masks are those that cannot or refuse to get vaccinated.
Not the case I don't think.

Why not?


Anti markers turn into anti vaxxers
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: CoreySamson on July 07, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Anti markers turn into anti vaxxers
Well good thing I'm anti-crayon.

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2021, 12:04:16 PM
These are part of my everyday commute, all on US-290/SH-71 west of Austin:

Where the freeway ends and traffic is diverted onto an exit ramp. (https://goo.gl/maps/r9n8XGY8SjikEydD9)  This used to be stripped as one lane, then some TxDOT official moved out that way and decided it needed to be two lanes years after it should have been.
This reminds me heavily of Alvin south of Houston. They already have a small section of the TX-35 freeway complete around town, but the rest of TX-35 traffic is routed on the  future feeder roads (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4129202,-95.2310615,3a,21.1y,207.03h,87.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7or7qsh1Zp77yQkdFdjA3w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) where the freeway ends. Also in Alvin there's these  strange left-turn bypasses  (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.3996759,-95.2449265,3a,75y,357.38h,83.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZezFqPmrkWKaYmAP3TUiGg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) in the median of the future freeway which were only put in in the past 10 years. I'm assuming they're (relatively) temporary.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: JoePCool14 on July 08, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 07, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Anti markers turn into anti vaxxers
Well good thing I'm anti-crayon.

Same here. I'm a big fan of universal colored pencils.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 04:54:52 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 08, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 07, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Anti markers turn into anti vaxxers
Well good thing I'm anti-crayon.

Same here. I'm a big fan of universal colored pencils.
:pan: lol my fault
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 08, 2021, 06:18:18 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 08, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 07, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Anti markers turn into anti vaxxers
Well good thing I'm anti-crayon.

Same here. I'm a big fan of universal colored pencils.

I'm hardline against Number 2 Pencils.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: kurumi on July 08, 2021, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 08, 2021, 06:18:18 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 08, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 07, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Anti markers turn into anti vaxxers
Well good thing I'm anti-crayon.

Same here. I'm a big fan of universal colored pencils.

I'm hardline against Number 2 Pencils.

HB would be in favor, I'd imagine
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Dirt Roads on July 08, 2021, 08:14:31 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 08, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Same here. I'm a big fan of universal colored pencils.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 08, 2021, 06:18:18 PM
I'm hardline against Number 2 Pencils.

Quote from: kurumi on July 08, 2021, 07:59:35 PM
HB would be in favor, I'd imagine

Back in the day, my pocket protector was equipped with four mechanical pencils: a 2H, a 2B, a red mechanical and a yellow mechanical.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: hbelkins on July 08, 2021, 09:28:45 PM
Quote from: kurumi on July 08, 2021, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 08, 2021, 06:18:18 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 08, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 07, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Anti markers turn into anti vaxxers
Well good thing I'm anti-crayon.

Same here. I'm a big fan of universal colored pencils.

I'm hardline against Number 2 Pencils.

HB would be in favor, I'd imagine

So how did I get pulled into this conversation?  :-D
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2021, 09:38:12 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 08, 2021, 09:28:45 PM
Quote from: kurumi on July 08, 2021, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 08, 2021, 06:18:18 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 08, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 07, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Anti markers turn into anti vaxxers
Well good thing I'm anti-crayon.

Same here. I'm a big fan of universal colored pencils.

I'm hardline against Number 2 Pencils.

HB would be in favor, I'd imagine

So how did I get pulled into this conversation?  :-D
IDK, your signature and some of your stances maybe.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Scott5114 on July 09, 2021, 12:41:39 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 08, 2021, 09:28:45 PM
Quote from: kurumi on July 08, 2021, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 08, 2021, 06:18:18 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 08, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 07, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Anti markers turn into anti vaxxers
Well good thing I'm anti-crayon.

Same here. I'm a big fan of universal colored pencils.

I'm hardline against Number 2 Pencils.

HB would be in favor, I'd imagine

So how did I get pulled into this conversation?  :-D

Quote from: https://pencils.com/pages/no-2-pencil
When most people think pencils, the No. 2 pencil is the first thing that comes to mind. But what does the "2"  on a No. 2 pencil actually mean? [...]

Historically, pencil makers [...] use combinations of letters – a pencil marked "HB"  is hard and black; a pencil marked "HH"  is very hard, and a pencil marked "HHBBB"  is very hard and really, really black! Although today most pencils using the HB system are designated by a number such as 2B, 4B or 2H to indicate the degree of hardness. For example, a 4B would be softer than a 2B and a 3H harder than an H.

Generally, an HB grade [...] is considered to be equivalent to a #2 pencil using the U.S. numbering system.
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 09, 2021, 01:41:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 09, 2021, 12:41:39 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 08, 2021, 09:28:45 PM
Quote from: kurumi on July 08, 2021, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 08, 2021, 06:18:18 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 08, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 07, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 07, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Anti markers turn into anti vaxxers
Well good thing I'm anti-crayon.

Same here. I'm a big fan of universal colored pencils.

I'm hardline against Number 2 Pencils.

HB would be in favor, I'd imagine

So how did I get pulled into this conversation?  :-D

Quote from: https://pencils.com/pages/no-2-pencil
When most people think pencils, the No. 2 pencil is the first thing that comes to mind. But what does the "2"  on a No. 2 pencil actually mean? [...]

Historically, pencil makers [...] use combinations of letters – a pencil marked "HB"  is hard and black; a pencil marked "HH"  is very hard, and a pencil marked "HHBBB"  is very hard and really, really black! Although today most pencils using the HB system are designated by a number such as 2B, 4B or 2H to indicate the degree of hardness. For example, a 4B would be softer than a 2B and a 3H harder than an H.

Generally, an HB grade [...] is considered to be equivalent to a #2 pencil using the U.S. numbering system.
oh
Title: Re: Temporary fixes that just became permanent
Post by: hbelkins on July 09, 2021, 02:03:32 PM
I knew all that about pencils. I thought it was neat, as a youngster, that pencils had my initials on them.