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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: kphoger on January 20, 2021, 10:24:18 AM

Title: Lesser Divides
Post by: kphoger on January 20, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
We all know about the Continental Divide and other major hydrological divides.  There are also many social divides that have been studied in depth:  some such as racial divides are more obvious, but others such as linguistic tendencies are less obvious and more entertaining to discuss.  For example, it's fun to see where the pop/soda/coke divides run through the country, or where the firefly/lightning bug divide runs.

But what are some less-documented divides you've become aware of during your travels?  I'm especially interested in the lesser divides that run through your state or one you're otherwise familiar with.  I mean, I'm sure there's a line somewhere in New York that divides Bills fans from Giants fans, but have you determined where that divide runs?  Is there an shirt/no shirt under your overalls divide that runs through Missouri?  If so, where is that divide?  Etc.




I'll start.

Illinois

When I lived in southern Illinois, the east-west sweet tea available/unavailable at McDonald's divide ran somewhere between Mount Vernon and Effingham.

There is also a north-south divide in southern Illinois (at least between US-50 and IL-13, which is the area I'm most familiar with).  West of approximately IL-148 or I-57, drivers generally speed, and traffic on 55mph roads goes about 65-70.  East of there, drivers generally don't speed, and even going 62 can mean quite a bit of passing.

Kansas

Unfortunately, I'm not sure exactly where these divides run, but I know they run somewhere generally north-south through Kansas:

– The butter/mayonnaise divide:  Which one do people spread on their sandwich bread?  West of the divide, it's butter.  East of the divide, mayo.

– The tea/lemonade divide:  Which one is served at potluck dinners?  West of the divide, it's iced tea.  East of the divide, lemonade.  There exists a broad region in the middle at which both are served.

– The wave/no wave divide:  On state highways, not just minor county roads, do people generally wave at every driver they pass?  West of the divide, they do.  East of the divide, they don't.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 20, 2021, 11:01:47 AM
For some reason there are a crap load of Navarro River watershed signs on Northern California highways.  The divide is always signed from State Highways for some reason via what appears to be homemade signage.  I passed three of them this past weekend on; CA 1, CA 128, and CA 253. 
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 11:24:55 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 20, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
But what are some less-documented divides you've become aware of during your travels?  I'm especially interested in the lesser divides that run through your state or one you're otherwise familiar with.

The Tim Hortons/no Tim Hortons divide runs as follows: It starts at Lake Erie, near the PA/OH state line, and follows the 42nd parallel all the way to NY 19. It then follows NY 19 north to Warsaw, then US 20A east to where it joins US 20, then US 20 to Geneva, then NY 14 north to Lake Ontario.

That includes Erie, PA, and it definitely includes Rochester, which has close to two dozen locations. Not Syracuse, though, which I was stunned to discover has only two Tim Horton's locations in the entire metro area (so technically, there are some locations outside the area I outlined, but they're far and few between).


Quote from: kphoger on January 20, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I mean, I'm sure there's a line somewhere in New York that divides Bills fans from Giants fans, but have you determined where that divide runs?

West of I-81: Solid Bills
East of I-81/North of 42nd parallel: Both
South of 42nd parallel: Solid Giants

Poor Jets fans.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: Bruce on January 20, 2021, 12:16:01 PM
The Cascades form both a hydrological divide and a social divide for both Washington and Oregon.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on January 20, 2021, 12:20:28 PM
There are exceptions, but I-70 is more or less a divide between Waffle House and no Waffle House.

As for a Bears/Colts divide in Indiana, I would put that as following US 31 from the Michigan line to Rochester, IN 25 to Lafayette, and IN 26 over to the Illinois line, though in reality the Bears/Colts shift is more subtle than any sort of line could really mark.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: jmd41280 on January 20, 2021, 03:34:04 PM
PA residents - Where would you place the Sheetz/Wawa divide?
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on January 20, 2021, 02:32:37 PM
As for the soda/pop divide in the northeast, I would say it falls between Syracuse and Rochester, then follows the I-99 corridor.

That's fair. I'm firmly in "pop" country.

Until a few years ago, I honestly thought "soda" was an old, outdated term that no one would ever use in contemporary life. To me, it didn't even make sense to use a two-syllable word when there's a one-syllable word that works just as well. I thought "soda" being replaced with "pop" was just something that happened over time, like a linguistic version of a technological advancement like the computer or smartphone.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: CapeCodder on January 20, 2021, 03:38:46 PM
The Volvo Line.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: kphoger on January 20, 2021, 03:39:46 PM
Now that this has already devolved into a pop/soda thread...

I once knew a guy who, upon moving from NYC to Chicago, responded to the first person who asked if he wanted a pop with "No thanks, I don't do drugs".
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: hotdogPi on January 20, 2021, 03:41:59 PM
I've always wondered where the Spanish-French line is in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. Specifically, how close do you need to be to Quebec for French to become more common than Spanish (the default second most common language in the US)?
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 03:52:17 PM
A part of the pop/soda debate that doesn't get discussed much: why do people use "a" to preface pop or soda?

I never have, and quite frankly think it's a weird thing to do.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 03:54:25 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 20, 2021, 03:41:59 PM
I've always wondered where the Spanish-French line is in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. Specifically, how close do you need to be to Quebec for French to become more common than Spanish (the default second most common language in the US)?

I don't know where the line is, but I do know that it would also extend into New York. I-87 in the North Country has some French signage, and Quebec license plates are very common there in the summer months.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: hotdogPi on January 20, 2021, 03:56:03 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 03:52:17 PM
A part of the pop/soda debate that doesn't get discussed much: why do people use "a" to preface pop or soda?

I never have, and quite frankly think it's a weird thing to do.

"a" refers to a single item, so "a soda" is equivalent to saying "a can of soda" or "a 2 liter bottle of soda" or whatever size. On the other hand, you wouldn't say "My favorite drink is a soda" or "there are free refills on a soda" or anything involving multiple cans or bottles.

It's also a village in India: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asoda
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: jemacedo9 on January 20, 2021, 04:01:53 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 20, 2021, 03:34:04 PM
PA residents - Where would you place the Sheetz/Wawa divide?
PA has I think the following, which all might be slightly different:

Sheetz/Wawa - probably on a line just west of Lancaster, just west of Reading, up to Hazleton, and then east and just north of I-80

Eagles/Steelers
Penguins/Flyers
pop/soda

I have to think about where the rest are drawn...

Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: kphoger on January 20, 2021, 04:02:52 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 20, 2021, 03:56:03 PM

Quote from: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 03:52:17 PM
A part of the pop/soda debate that doesn't get discussed much: why do people use "a" to preface pop or soda?

I never have, and quite frankly think it's a weird thing to do.

"a" refers to a single item, so "a soda" is equivalent to saying "a can of soda" or "a 2 liter bottle of soda" or whatever size. On the other hand, you wouldn't say "My favorite drink is a soda" or "there are free refills on a soda" or anything involving multiple cans or bottles.

Exactly.  "Would you like a pop/soda" means "Would you like a can/bottle of pop/soda"?

"Would you like some pop/soda" means I might pour it into a glass for you first.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: GaryV on January 20, 2021, 04:07:38 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 20, 2021, 04:02:52 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 20, 2021, 03:56:03 PM

Quote from: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 03:52:17 PM
A part of the pop/soda debate that doesn't get discussed much: why do people use "a" to preface pop or soda?

I never have, and quite frankly think it's a weird thing to do.

"a" refers to a single item, so "a soda" is equivalent to saying "a can of soda" or "a 2 liter bottle of soda" or whatever size. On the other hand, you wouldn't say "My favorite drink is a soda" or "there are free refills on a soda" or anything involving multiple cans or bottles.

Exactly.  "Would you like a pop/soda" means "Would you like a can/bottle of pop/soda"?

"Would you like some pop/soda" means I might pour it into a glass for you first.

And "Would you like pop/soda" (without an article before it) means as opposed to some other beverage.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 20, 2021, 03:56:03 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 03:52:17 PM
A part of the pop/soda debate that doesn't get discussed much: why do people use "a" to preface pop or soda?

I never have, and quite frankly think it's a weird thing to do.

"a" refers to a single item, so "a soda" is equivalent to saying "a can of soda" or "a 2 liter bottle of soda" or whatever size. On the other hand, you wouldn't say "My favorite drink is a soda" or "there are free refills on a soda" or anything involving multiple cans or bottles.

I'm referring more to non-can/bottle contexts.

For example, when a waiter at a restaurant says "Can I get you a soda/pop?"
If it was any other drink, like water, juice, or most alcohol, it wouldn't be prefaced with "a".

Beer is another exception that follows the same rules as soda/pop, maybe because it is also often bottled.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: kphoger on January 20, 2021, 04:12:58 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 04:09:15 PM
I'm referring more to non-can/bottle contexts.

For example, when a waiter at a restaurant says "Can I get you a soda/pop?"
If it was any other drink, like water, juice, or most alcohol, it wouldn't be prefaced with "a".

Beer is another exception that follows the same rules as soda/pop, maybe because it is also often bottled.

I've definitely heard a waiters ask "Can I get you a water?" or "Can I get you an orange juice?"  In that context, it means "Can I get you a glass of...?"
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 20, 2021, 04:19:10 PM
The Weißwurstäquator (literally "White Sausage Equator") dividing Germany.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: rawmustard on January 20, 2021, 04:27:37 PM
In Michigan, you have a divide between northern and southern at approximately the US-10 corridor (or why we have a Welcome Center in Clare). Then you got the whole UP as well, which has a pretty pronounced divide between east and west about a line that runs approximately from Marquette to Menominee.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: briantroutman on January 20, 2021, 04:49:04 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 20, 2021, 03:34:04 PM
PA residents - Where would you place the Sheetz/Wawa divide?

It's roughly coincident with the US 222 corridor–plus the Poconos–where the two chains' territories overlap. The Lancaster, Reading, and Allentown areas are home to locations of both. As you head north or west, by the time you reach I-81, you're definitely out of Wawa territory.

Coincidentally, there's also a pretty strong correlation between the Sheetz/Wawa overlap and the primary territory of Turkey Hill (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Turkey_Hill_footprint_2010-08.png).

Quote from: jemacedo9 on January 20, 2021, 04:01:53 PM
Eagles/Steelers
Penguins/Flyers

Speaking very broadly (in part because I could hardly care less about professional sports), Philadelphia and Pittsburgh allegiances more or less separate along the US 15 corridor.

Growing up in Williamsport, maybe 60% were Phillies and/or Eagles fans (few people seemed to care about basketball or hockey), and 40% followed the Steelers (though I've encountered almost no Pirates fans). Heading west just as far as Jersey Shore, the proportions were basically reversed. And by the time you hit Centre County, Philadelphia's share drops to almost zero.

There's also a notable third column–especially in rural Pennsylvania: People who follow Penn State sports...almost as an "anti-urban"  alternative to Philadelphia or Pittsburgh teams. The Pennsylvania sports map is further complicated by some Baltimore fandom bleeding northward into the York-Harrisburg area and New York fans (especially Yankees baseball) encroaching on the Lehigh Valley/Poconos/Scranton areas

Quote from: jemacedo9 on January 20, 2021, 04:01:53 PM
pop/soda

Most pop/soda maps claim the pop/soda divide runs along the I-99 corridor. And having grown up on the supposed edge of the divide, you'd think I would have heard "pop"  used occasionally. To the contrary: in two decades of extensive travels around central and western Pennsylvania, I've never once encountered anyone using the term "pop"  seriously. And for comparison–I have encountered "pop"  in the Great Lakes region (Ontario, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois) in far less time having been there. Now that's not to say that no one in western Pennsylvania says "pop" , but I have to conclude that it's a declining phenomenon among older and more isolated residents.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: jmd41280 on January 20, 2021, 07:35:38 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 20, 2021, 04:49:04 PMMost pop/soda maps claim the pop/soda divide runs along the I-99 corridor. And having grown up on the supposed edge of the divide, you'd think I would have heard "pop"  used occasionally. To the contrary: in two decades of extensive travels around central and western Pennsylvania, I've never once encountered anyone using the term "pop"  seriously. And for comparison–I have encountered "pop"  in the Great Lakes region (Ontario, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois) in far less time having been there. Now that's not to say that no one in western Pennsylvania says "pop" , but I have to conclude that it's a declining phenomenon among older and more isolated residents.

To be honest, I rarely hear anyone in western PA say anything other than "pop". As a resident of that half of our fine Commonwealth, I just can't get myself to ever say "soda". Just doesn't seem right to me  :cool:
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 20, 2021, 07:35:38 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 20, 2021, 04:49:04 PMMost pop/soda maps claim the pop/soda divide runs along the I-99 corridor. And having grown up on the supposed edge of the divide, you'd think I would have heard "pop"  used occasionally. To the contrary: in two decades of extensive travels around central and western Pennsylvania, I've never once encountered anyone using the term "pop"  seriously. And for comparison–I have encountered "pop"  in the Great Lakes region (Ontario, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois) in far less time having been there. Now that's not to say that no one in western Pennsylvania says "pop" , but I have to conclude that it's a declining phenomenon among older and more isolated residents.

To be honest, I rarely hear anyone in western PA say anything other than "pop". As a resident of that half of our fine Commonwealth, I just can't get myself to ever say "soda". Just doesn't seem right to me  :cool:

Yeah, same here in Western NY. "Soda" just... isn't a thing.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: jemacedo9 on January 20, 2021, 08:00:46 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 20, 2021, 07:35:38 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 20, 2021, 04:49:04 PMMost pop/soda maps claim the pop/soda divide runs along the I-99 corridor. And having grown up on the supposed edge of the divide, you'd think I would have heard "pop"  used occasionally. To the contrary: in two decades of extensive travels around central and western  Pennsylvania, I've never once encountered anyone using the term "pop"  seriously. And for comparison–I have encountered "pop"  in the Great Lakes region (Ontario, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois) in far less time having been there. Now that's not to say that no one in western Pennsylvania says "pop" , but I have to conclude that it's a declining phenomenon among older and more isolated residents.

To be honest, I rarely hear anyone in western PA say anything other than "pop". As a resident of that half of our fine Commonwealth, I just can't get myself to ever say "soda". Just doesn't seem right to me  :cool:

I went to college at IUP...and "pop" was used there often.  I think the I-99 corridor might be correct.  Harrisburg / Carlisle is definitely soda.  "Pop" never seemed right to me.  :)
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: vdeane on January 20, 2021, 09:29:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 03:54:25 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 20, 2021, 03:41:59 PM
I've always wondered where the Spanish-French line is in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. Specifically, how close do you need to be to Quebec for French to become more common than Spanish (the default second most common language in the US)?

I don't know where the line is, but I do know that it would also extend into New York. I-87 in the North Country has some French signage, and Quebec license plates are very common there in the summer months.
Bear in mind that the signage on I-87 is for Canadian travelers... not locals who speak the language (yes, there are still native francophones in New England!).

There's actually French signage on the Northway as far south as Clifton Park (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8746552,-73.7768247,3a,17.2y,7.36h,88.9t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfukJ9RKfFr9jDzLbwusMdQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DfukJ9RKfFr9jDzLbwusMdQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D154.83804%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192).
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: jp the roadgeek on January 20, 2021, 10:41:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 20, 2021, 09:29:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 20, 2021, 03:54:25 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 20, 2021, 03:41:59 PM
I've always wondered where the Spanish-French line is in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. Specifically, how close do you need to be to Quebec for French to become more common than Spanish (the default second most common language in the US)?

I don't know where the line is, but I do know that it would also extend into New York. I-87 in the North Country has some French signage, and Quebec license plates are very common there in the summer months.
Bear in mind that the signage on I-87 is for Canadian travelers... not locals who speak the language (yes, there are still native francophones in New England!).

There's actually French signage on the Northway as far south as Clifton Park (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8746552,-73.7768247,3a,17.2y,7.36h,88.9t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfukJ9RKfFr9jDzLbwusMdQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DfukJ9RKfFr9jDzLbwusMdQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D154.83804%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192).

There's also plenty of French signage in the French Canadian Riviera aka Old Orchard Beach, ME: a very popular beach destination for the Quebecois. 

Surprised no one else brought up the old Jersey standard: pork roll vs Taylor ham.  Not much of a thing where I live in CT, but I read about it and the whole North/South Jersey divide on the name.  I was discussing it with a guy from NJ one day who lived in North Jersey, and he always called it pork roll; he had never heard the term Taylor ham, despite it being a more common term in his native part (there is one bagel store near me that does call it Taylor ham, but Shop Rite is diplomatic in it's circular and calls it "Taylor Pork Roll".
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: kphoger on January 21, 2021, 11:13:11 AM
In Saskatchewan, a pullover sweatshirt with a hood is called a bunnyhug.

I've read that it is so firmly a Saskatchewan term, that residents of Lloydminster are sharply divided:  those on the west side of 50 Ave (the provincial line) say hoodie, while those on the east side of 50 Ave say bunnyhug.

Not having personally been there, I'm unable to confirm.
Title: Re: Lesser Divides
Post by: Scott5114 on January 23, 2021, 12:10:28 PM
Sports discussion moved to a new Sports thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28384.0