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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: Mergingtraffic on February 08, 2021, 02:41:50 PM

Title: Interstate number problems
Post by: Mergingtraffic on February 08, 2021, 02:41:50 PM
I've seen state route shield and US route shields and most of the time the numbers "look good." Good font, good size, not too big or too small.  How come with interstate shields, contractors have problems getting the numbers visually correct? I've seen more interstate number screw ups than I'd care to admit.

Numbers are too big and think IMHO
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48010033478_77d4dfe032_c.jpg)


Numbers are too tall and narrowl:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4524/37805094995_63a921a108_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/977/27853180258_17ce013cd1_c.jpg)


An example of what I think are proper sized numbers:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/831/41004584804_f978b243f9_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/4564/25025570518_d94a96f0c4_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/4470/37810087092_0a9555433a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g9tYiU)
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: CtrlAltDel on February 08, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
Are there any signs out there without the state name that you think have good sized numbers?
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: SkyPesos on February 08, 2021, 04:54:03 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 08, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
Are there any signs out there without the state name that you think have good sized numbers?
Ohio does them pretty well, specifically some of the more recent installations like this one on I-71 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1600994,-84.4375935,3a,20.8y,230.77h,88.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sivEEf3IL1Oi12JOYF7MlpA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). I also like the number size Illinois uses.

Edit: turns out that's a one-off in Ohio. The state oversizes the numbers, like these two (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1400125,-84.4845709,3a,15y,73.48h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s17GcRm-1Di_gOGeHmQF_CQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) examples on I-71 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2854665,-84.3265083,3a,24.1y,259.09h,86.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbIFbyOJfOuPrCGwL4GECEQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and this one on I-275 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2845689,-84.4175383,3a,15y,115.6h,91.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIblWb1rIQhmtcPodSa5iPQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: CtrlAltDel on February 08, 2021, 05:44:55 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 08, 2021, 04:54:03 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 08, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
Are there any signs out there without the state name that you think have good sized numbers?
Ohio does them pretty well, specifically some of the more recent installations like this one on I-71 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1600994,-84.4375935,3a,20.8y,230.77h,88.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sivEEf3IL1Oi12JOYF7MlpA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). I also like the number size Illinois uses.

I like these too. I'd say it's probably the best design. The numbers aren't disproportionally big and there's no small and unnecessary state name.*
(https://i.imgur.com/Uiz6Xjg.png)

* That and my disdain for small control cities are probably my two most unpopular opinions on this forum.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: thspfc on February 08, 2021, 06:05:26 PM
The size of the numbers on that I-276 BGS is the least of its problems. That's a terrible BGS
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Scott5114 on February 08, 2021, 06:08:03 PM
The reason why enlarged digits look bad on an Interstate shield and not on a US route shield is because digits are centered vertically on the US route shield, while they're below center on the Interstate shield, to make room for the Interstate's red crown. Thus, bigger digits are more likely to run up against the border of an Interstate shield than they are a US shield.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 08, 2021, 05:44:55 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 08, 2021, 04:54:03 PM
I also like the number size Illinois uses.

I like these too. I'd say it's probably the best design. The numbers aren't disproportionally big and there's small and unnecessary state name.*
(https://i.imgur.com/Uiz6Xjg.png)

This is the standard digit size and placement specified by the MUTCD (which is the same as what Illinois uses).

Quote from: thspfc on February 08, 2021, 06:05:26 PM
The size of the numbers on that I-276 BGS is the least of its problems. That's a terrible BGS

It's just a NJ Turnpike BGS. That's their standard design.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 08, 2021, 06:10:10 PM
Personally I think the big numbers are fine.  The "stateless"  Interstate shields certainly are far cheaper on the second hand market to boot. 
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: hotdogPi on February 08, 2021, 06:13:43 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Infamous_Tonawanda_Squares.jpg)

Tonawanda, NY. Doug Kerr.

(https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/us_1/us1.jpg)

alpsroads (also in NY)

Now where's that TX 4di business route that I've been trying to find?
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 08, 2021, 06:18:56 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 08, 2021, 06:13:43 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Infamous_Tonawanda_Squares.jpg)

Tonawanda, NY. Doug Kerr.

The Block Heads from Gumby got to that one. 
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: SkyPesos on February 08, 2021, 06:32:32 PM
I don't know when Missouri switched to neutered interstate shields, but I saw a couple of them on I-64 and I-70 last time I was in St. Louis. Here's a GSV screenshot of one on an interchange with I-70; imo the sizing and centering of the numbers is perfect, even better than the I-71 one I posted earlier. Reminds me of the ones on the Wikimedia interstate shields page, which is what is the best looking to me (think that's the MUTCD standard).
(https://i.imgur.com/IHNEwd7.png)
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: kphoger on February 08, 2021, 06:39:22 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 08, 2021, 06:18:56 PM

Quote from: 1 on February 08, 2021, 06:13:43 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Infamous_Tonawanda_Squares.jpg)

Tonawanda, NY. Doug Kerr.

The Block Heads from Gumby got to that one. 

But the number looks perfectly fine, at least to me.  You might be able to convince me that it should be centered vertically in the blue field, but I personally like the consistent margin around three of its four sides.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: CtrlAltDel on February 08, 2021, 08:02:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 08, 2021, 06:39:22 PM
But the number looks perfectly fine, at least to me.

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: KCRoadFan on February 08, 2021, 08:19:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 08, 2021, 06:39:22 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 08, 2021, 06:18:56 PM

Quote from: 1 on February 08, 2021, 06:13:43 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Infamous_Tonawanda_Squares.jpg)

Tonawanda, NY. Doug Kerr.

The Block Heads from Gumby got to that one. 

But the number looks perfectly fine, at least to me.  You might be able to convince me that it should be centered vertically in the blue field, but I personally like the consistent margin around three of its four sides.

Was the contractor from Maryland, by chance?
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: vdeane on February 08, 2021, 08:32:59 PM
This sign is what interstate shields are supposed to look like:
(https://nysroads.com/images/gallery/NY/i590/101_7221-s.JPG)

Quote from: 1 on February 08, 2021, 06:13:43 PM
(https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/us_1/us1.jpg)

alpsroads (also in NY)
Meanwhile, in Rhode Island...
(https://nysroads.com/images/gallery/RI/ri103/101_9891-s.JPG)
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: SkyPesos on February 08, 2021, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 08, 2021, 08:32:59 PM
Meanwhile, in Rhode Island...
(https://nysroads.com/images/gallery/RI/ri103/101_9891-s.JPG)
First time seeing a temporary detour sign do the signage better than the permanent ones... I found these interstate signage detour signs in Columbus (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9527058,-82.9948218,3a,21.4y,93.63h,86.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shzkycnfPPOO465t3pwFWbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192), and they were hideous.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Ned Weasel on February 08, 2021, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on February 08, 2021, 02:41:50 PM
I've seen state route shield and US route shields and most of the time the numbers "look good." Good font, good size, not too big or too small.  How come with interstate shields, contractors have problems getting the numbers visually correct? I've seen more interstate number screw ups than I'd care to admit.

If any of those examples bother you, never ever, under any circumstances, ever spend a minute in Oklahoma.

Quote from: 1 on February 08, 2021, 06:13:43 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Infamous_Tonawanda_Squares.jpg)

Tonawanda, NY. Doug Kerr.

This isn't bad.  It's just minimalism.  Although, the empty space above the number feels arbitrary, and the arrow plaque should have a matching white border.

Quote
(https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/us_1/us1.jpg)

alpsroads (also in NY)

This belongs in a museum in Oklahoma, in the same exhibit as the old Craig County sign.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: paulthemapguy on February 08, 2021, 09:12:46 PM
This side-by-side comparison of mid-sized/oversized always amused me. This sits in Monee, IL

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48893073676_7b3f9806cb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2huvMoU)
IL-I-57X335EWA (https://flic.kr/p/2huvMoU) by Paul Drives (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138603251@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Ned Weasel on February 08, 2021, 09:16:03 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 08, 2021, 09:12:46 PM
This side-by-side comparison of mid-sized/oversized always amused me. This sits in Monee, IL

I've driven by that several times without noticing the difference in the numerals.  I guess I should stop saying I'm "detail-oriented."
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: JoePCool14 on February 08, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 08, 2021, 09:12:46 PM
This side-by-side comparison of mid-sized/oversized always amused me. This sits in Monee, IL

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48893073676_7b3f9806cb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2huvMoU)
IL-I-57X335EWA (https://flic.kr/p/2huvMoU) by Paul Drives (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138603251@N02/), on Flickr

I know I tend to complain about IDOT an awful lot, but I won't lie... their Interstate shields look decent.

...at least the smaller size ones do. Something about this example doesn't sit quite right with me.

https://goo.gl/maps/aVWNKpPCGTYNbnA28
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Big John on February 08, 2021, 10:00:11 PM
^^ I am wondering why 1 pole is yellow and the other is gray.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Ned Weasel on February 09, 2021, 06:37:29 AM
Quote from: Big John on February 08, 2021, 10:00:11 PM
^^ I am wondering why 1 pole is yellow and the other is gray.

Also one follows the MUTCD by making the first letter of the cardinal direction larger, and the other doesn't.

I'd guess one of them is a replacement.  Maybe the one closer to the curb got hit by a truck.  You can see the curb being eaten up by trailers running over it just a few feet past the sign assembly.  And if you're familiar with the location, you'll know there are two major-brand truck stops right there.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: JoePCool14 on February 09, 2021, 11:07:20 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on February 09, 2021, 06:37:29 AM
Quote from: Big John on February 08, 2021, 10:00:11 PM
^^ I am wondering why 1 pole is yellow and the other is gray.

Also one follows the MUTCD by making the first letter of the cardinal direction larger, and the other doesn't.

I'd guess one of them is a replacement.  Maybe the one closer to the curb got hit by a truck.  You can see the curb being eaten up by trailers running over it just a few feet past the sign assembly.  And if you're familiar with the location, you'll know there are two major-brand truck stops right there.

Both of those issues are IDOT staples. IDOT loves using yellow posts for some reason, and they also have no interest in capitalizing the first letter of cardinal directions on banners. The original signs were almost certainly contractor installs, while the sign on the left is standard IDOT fare.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Scott5114 on February 09, 2021, 01:51:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 08, 2021, 08:32:59 PM
This sign is what interstate shields are supposed to look like:
(https://nysroads.com/images/gallery/NY/i590/101_7221-s.JPG)

The 90 is 100% to federal spec, so you're right on there. To meet federal spec, the 390 shield would have to have Series C for the digits and E for the "INTERSTATE".
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: PurdueBill on February 09, 2021, 01:57:57 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 08, 2021, 06:18:56 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 08, 2021, 06:13:43 PM

Tonawanda, NY. Doug Kerr.

The Block Heads from Gumby got to that one. 

Fixed it

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/147501017_10115176478357648_6794584976166885729_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=3&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=aq6j1R18ioEAX_-UBD5&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=6e4d4fce11058ee8faf7ba59d8f58390&oe=60483E5D)
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Mergingtraffic on February 09, 2021, 03:56:53 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 08, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
Are there any signs out there without the state name that you think have good sized numbers?
That was just coincidence, although I do think the 678 looks ok here
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48572561777_46f41b54f6_c.jpg)


I even think the numbers here are too big
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50016016743_92750915d2_c.jpg)

Quote from: vdeane on February 08, 2021, 08:32:59 PM
This sign is what interstate shields are supposed to look like:
(https://nysroads.com/images/gallery/NY/i590/101_7221-s.JPG)


[/quote]

I agree the I-90 looks great and even though the I-195 signs are horrible I actually think visually it looks pretty good.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48201165867_a26839bedd_c.jpg)

I love state-named shields but I think it throws off the visuals and the centering of the signs.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: kphoger on February 09, 2021, 04:18:45 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 08, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
Are there any signs out there without the state name that you think have good sized numbers?

(https://www.interstate-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/routes/235/i-135-n-at-i-235-3.jpg)

(In an interesting turn of events, this image is hosted on a secure site (interstate-guide.com, anyone heard of it?  ;-)), yet it still doesn't render on my browser.)
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: hotdogPi on February 09, 2021, 04:20:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 09, 2021, 04:18:45 PM
(In an interesting turn of events, this image is hosted on a secure site (interstate-guide.com, anyone heard of it?  ;-)), yet it still doesn't render on my browser.)

It doesn't show up on my end, and I don't have the http/https problem. I think the link is bad.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: US 89 on February 09, 2021, 04:42:21 PM
Works on mine...
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: kphoger on February 09, 2021, 04:51:51 PM
Huh.  Now it's working on mine.  It wasn't just a little bit ago.  Weird.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: hotdogPi on February 09, 2021, 04:52:58 PM
It's still not working for me. Attempting to put the image URL in the URL bar causes an infinite loop.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: CtrlAltDel on February 09, 2021, 05:18:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 09, 2021, 04:18:45 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 08, 2021, 03:17:48 PM
Are there any signs out there without the state name that you think have good sized numbers?

(https://www.interstate-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/routes/235/i-135-n-at-i-235-3.jpg)

(In an interesting turn of events, this image is hosted on a secure site (interstate-guide.com, anyone heard of it?  ;-)), yet it still doesn't render on my browser.)

I can see it. For reference, the sign in question is this one (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6128482,-97.3270268,3a,75y,346.41h,108.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIdsCJzXqEJwxtAZgC_oZDQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192):
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: kphoger on February 09, 2021, 05:43:28 PM
Well, at any rate, it's a pair of 3di numbers that look good without the state name.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: DrSmith on February 09, 2021, 06:00:08 PM
Here's a compromise..... non-maxed out sized numerals in monster shield.... larger numerals with extra blue space around the edge
https://goo.gl/maps/jh4C1AVemqnKcv6r8
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: webny99 on February 09, 2021, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 09, 2021, 04:51:51 PM
Huh.  Now it's working on mine.  It wasn't just a little bit ago.  Weird.

Yeah, it's a case of "now you see it, now you don't". I saw it earlier, not long after you posted, and then the next time I checked, it was gone. I still can't see it as of this post.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: vdeane on February 09, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 09, 2021, 01:51:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 08, 2021, 08:32:59 PM
This sign is what interstate shields are supposed to look like:
(https://nysroads.com/images/gallery/NY/i590/101_7221-s.JPG)

The 90 is 100% to federal spec, so you're right on there. To meet federal spec, the 390 shield would have to have Series C for the digits and E for the "INTERSTATE".
A lot of the newer installs (https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i390&state=NY&file=100_8561.JPG) are like that, though IMO the series D numerals look nicer.  The official series C ones still look much better than the over-sized numerals that are common in most states, though.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: paulthemapguy on February 11, 2021, 02:04:55 PM
OP, you would HATE driving through Nebraska, then.  Lots of oversized numerals that bulge out to the margins of route markers.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Scott5114 on February 11, 2021, 06:57:01 PM
Nebraska also uses D-Modified digits for extra boldness. Something like this.
(https://i.imgur.com/PUzr1oy.png)
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: SectorZ on February 11, 2021, 07:07:28 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 11, 2021, 06:57:01 PM
Nebraska also uses D-Modified digits for extra boldness. Something like this.
(https://i.imgur.com/PUzr1oy.png)

Geez that's terrifying. It's like the digits are trying to escape the torture of their confinement.
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: machias on February 12, 2021, 04:22:31 PM
For years NYSDOT did this with the I-81 markers. There's an extra space between the numbers. They did this on both markers with the state and later ones without. While it's technically not correct, it always looked "right" to me

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjpnearl.com%2Fupstatenyroads.com%2Faaroads%2Fi81ny.jpg&hash=5f6aaffd1bd7a02c10aedbb671b9fcf64403268b)
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Scott5114 on February 13, 2021, 01:42:11 AM
That was the federal standard from 1957 to 1970. I would imagine they made the digits bigger because they were kind of small originally. (They made the red INTERSTATE crown smaller to make room for larger digits at the same time.)
Title: Re: Interstate number problems
Post by: Caps81943 on February 13, 2021, 06:07:38 PM
Quote from: machias on February 12, 2021, 04:22:31 PM
For years NYSDOT did this with the I-81 markers. There's an extra space between the numbers. They did this on both markers with the state and later ones without. While it's technically not correct, it always looked "right" to me

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjpnearl.com%2Fupstatenyroads.com%2Faaroads%2Fi81ny.jpg&hash=5f6aaffd1bd7a02c10aedbb671b9fcf64403268b)

No offense of course, but in my opinion, I think that looks downright awful.