Vermont AOT is going forward with two major sign replacing projects this season:
I-89 from (likely) Exit 3 to (roughly) Exit 9 - 40 miles (as evident by VMSs)
Visual inspection from Exit 6 to Exit 9 shows installation of new posts to support the signs.
I-91 from Exit 24 to Exit 28 or 29 - Northeast Kingdom
This will replace the last of the original I-91 signage in Vermont, of which button copy remains, for Exits 24-25. In this area, signage has deteriorated to the point where rest area signs are more white or purple than blue, a couple of all-text "FOOD-PHONE-GAS-LODGING" signs remain, and exit tabs are non-existant. Signage north of Exit 25 to Newport is more modern but according to www.511vt.com, the project extends to Exit 28. Exit 29 is on the Canadian border.
What to expect with the new signs, based on what we've seen elsewhere:
* Small green on white markers count the tenths of a mile... 1-05, 1-10, 1-15, 1-20, 1-25, etc
* Reassurance shields will feature only numerals in the shield, and an Eisenhower Interstate System shield below
* Full 3 BGSs for each exit (typically 1 mile, 1/2 mile, and ->). It is possible we may see some new overhead assemblies to get the "3 per exit".
* Service symbols (food, phone, gas, etc) shown on a separate blue sign instead of attached to a BGS
* State route shields in the green oval, replacing the older circle
As before during the I-91 projects from White River Jct to Lyndonville, I will do my best to document the progress, but will probably be limited to just the I-89 segment.
In addition, the project MAY OR MAY NOT involve the replacement of the metric-only advance distance signs between I-89 Exits 9 & 10. When I drove this way the other day between Exits 10 & 6, I wasn't paying attention to the signs until I was heading SB after Exit 9.
They were replacing signs in and around St. Johnsberry when we traveled Interstate 91 in July 2007 (still have not posted the photos from this trip...). They did exactly what you mentioned on I-89 today back then and posted empty sign poles in front of every sign to be replaced.
I don't care for the neutered shield/Eisenhower Interstate system combo, but it is nice to see more of the green oval state shields in place...
I'll be able to do some before/after, at least at Exit 24 on I-91 (it's my back way into Lyndonville).
Recon mission today on I-89 SB within the project limits from Exit 9 (Middlesex) to Exit 6 (Northfield). Crews were actively working in various locations SB between Exits 8 & 6 and I saw them dismantling an old sign, and a truck with brand new BGSs on it, waiting to be installed. Of course it was raining so didn't take pics - that and I left the camera at home. Anyway, here's an update:
* The font used is questionable - in areas where the old and the new BGSs are side-by-side, a difference in text is noticeable. Also, there's something about the "9" on the Exit Gores that seems too curly... It very well may be Clearview.
* The state circle shield is being replaced with the green "VERMONT" oval.
* Exit services are now posted on a separate "BBS" instead of attached to the last BGS for each exit.
* The NB mileage sign after Exit 9 which gave KM-only distances to Waterbury & Burlington remains, but just past it, a brand new sign with mile distances.
* The SB mileage sign after Exit 10 which gives KM-only distances to Middlesex & Montpelier is out of the project limits (for now)
* Former sign which had english/french "Welcome to Montpelier - Capital Of Vermont" has been replaced with english-only on the new sign.
* The old and the new BGSs are both up in some places. In some cases, the distances between the two 1 mile signs varies.
* For Exit 7-SB, the old last BGS was located about 1/4 mile away from the exit, but still had the -> arrow. This was because of a bridge and a rock ledge prohibited a standard ground-mounted installation. The new BGS now has a NEXT RIGHT tag in the same location. It is unknown whether or not an overhead sign will be placed closer to the exit. The "ledge before exit" occurs at Exit 7-NB. On I-91 in St J, when those signs were replaced a few years ago, overhead gantries went up. So it remains to be seen what will happen here.
I am heading down to CT next weekend and will cover I-89 from Exit 6, southward to Exit "0-S". I believe the project limits for this sign project last until Exit 3 so I will see what's happening further south, and hopefully will have better weather for pics (and remember the camera, too).
I'll likely be driving 89 on Labor Day, unless I get disgusted with all the retroreflective signage and jump onto US-4 or whatnot.
will this resigning finally give an exit number to the junction of 91 and 93? I've gotten lost there on multiple occasions because the sequential exit numbers are borked.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 16, 2010, 01:35:39 PM
will this resigning finally give an exit number to the junction of 91 and 93? I've gotten lost there on multiple occasions because the sequential exit numbers are borked.
Those signs for the 91/93 junction in St Johnsbury were replaced a few years ago. I-91's exit to I-93 has always been Exit 19, but I-93 has no exit number for I-91 - no need to, since its the end of the interstate.
The 89/91 junction only has exits numbered for I-91 to I-89 (Exit 10N-S). I-89 to I-91 exits never got a number, and most likely will not be numbered until mileage-based exits become mandatory, then they'd be Exit 1N-S. I-89's present signing project southern terminus is somewhere around Exit 3 (Bethel), about 20 miles or so from I-91/White River Jct.
The oldest signs on I-89 are still between Exits 13 and 20 (Burlington to Saint Albans), with many of them not having exit tabs and some signs missing (though nowhere near as old as those on I-91 between Lyndonville and Barton). But while I-91's "oldies but goodies" are being replaced, I-89's north end will have to wait (at least) another year.
I won't be up to the NEK until Labor Day weekend. Whether I get a chance to check status of I-91 north of Lyndonville (Exit 24) still remains to be seen...
A couple checks of the webcams on I-91 in the Newport area show a new sign. http://170.222.32.148/10/
I hope to get up that way in the next couple of weeks, though since April I've only left the confines of the Mad River Valley a handful of times and have only been on the interstates once since May.
7/23 Update
Roadway: Interstate 89
Territory: Exit 5 (Northfield) to Exit 1 (White River Jct)
Confirmed: Re-signing project southern terminus is 1 mile before Exit 3 (Royalton).
From Exit 5 to Exit 3, limited work has been done to the BGSs... a crew was observed in the left lane replacing the small yellow markers just past Exit 5, SB. A few new posts to hold signs were observed.
Also observed a crew northbound with a crane actively replacing signs for Exit 4 in Randolph. One BGS for Exit 4 (NB) was partially installed - only the top 1/3 of the sign was up, including the exit tab, and the route markers were "VT 66 TO VT 12"... VT 14 has been left out, unlike the old NB signs. Southbound, however, the old signs have just advertised "VT 66 TO VT 12". (for those that don't know, intersecting routes at Exits 3, 4, and 5 connect VT 12 on the west side of I-89 to VT 14 on the east side).
A full northbound progress report will occur on my trip back home on Monday 7/26, with pics - providing the weather is decent. On the northbound trip, I intend to cover the entire project limit length (Exits 3-9).
Okay folks, here's your entire northbound I-89 signage update with before-after pics, taken 7-26-2010...
http://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I89SignReplacementSummer2010#
(link corrected Nov 2010)
Looks like Clearview's invaded yet another state...
Looks like we can expect to see a lot more Clearview.... and here's why:
http://www.aot.state.vt.us/PressReleases/2010/August/NewStandardsCallForInterstateSignReplacement.htm
Quote from: shadyjay on August 18, 2010, 11:19:41 PM
Looks like we can expect to see a lot more Clearview.... and here's why:
http://www.aot.state.vt.us/PressReleases/2010/August/NewStandardsCallForInterstateSignReplacement.htm
*shakes head reading that*
Well, will all sign replacements be carbon copies? Or will they finally put proper exit tabs for Exit 14 (U.S. 2) along Interstate 89 and ditch the "Thru Traffic" panels at the same interchange?
The press release doesn't specifically mention Clearview. I'm guessing Jay's reaction is because the recent sign replacements have been in Clearview. I haven't been up there lately to see for myself, though I'll be in the NEK in a few weeks.
I also find that press release amusing in that the '09 MUTCD requires mile-based exit numbering, yet last year when I inquired with VTrans about it, they said they had no plans to change from sequential.
Exit 17 needs exit tabs as well.
I am assuming, since signs are being replaced to conform to the latest standards, that all new installations will be in Clearview. I have yet to be on I-91 north of St J in several years so I'm not sure if its Clearview up there like on I-89 or not - I'll add that on my "list of things to do".
According to 511vt.com, they are also replacing signs on I-89 from Middlesex (Exit 9) to Colchester (Exit 16). I'll try to get a visual confirmation of most of this stretch come this weekend (weather permitting). As previously mentioned above, many of these signs lack exit tabs and have the "THRU TRAFFIC" pull-through. I like to think that this will be changed to a "NORTH I-89" or something similar, but I have my doubts (remembering back to when signs on I-91 were replaced north of White River Jct, why the I-91 North pullthrough only got a single arrow, not two).
^^^
If I understand things correctly, Clearview is only optional in the 2009 MUCTD not required.
Or, does Vermont's MUCTD require Clearview?
From what I can tell Clearview isn't mentioned in the 2009 MUTCD at all. It continues to operate under the same experimental process that it did under the 2003 MUTCD. (Pretty much, you have to get a permit from FHWA for it.)
^^^
Thanks.
So, the bottom line is as I thought: The fed may be requiring Vermont (and other states?) to change their signs but they are under no compulsion to use Clearview.
Quote from: mightyace on August 19, 2010, 08:58:37 PM
So, the bottom line is as I thought: The fed may be requiring Vermont (and other states?) to change their signs but they are under no compulsion to use Clearview.
I think a good parallel example is California's recent resigning projects (i.e. the massive resigning project in metro Sacramento that has had two big phases, in 2008 and late 2009) - signs less than a year old still do not have any hint of Clearview on them.
(Not that California is the best example, given its own vagaries to federal standards. :p )
Drove between Exits 10 & 12 the other day. No new signs yet, but the foundations / holes are in.
Any further interstate driving is on hold until I get the truck's front end repaired.
Did a brief detour up to Exit 24 before I headed back south this morning. The new signs are in place there...at least on northbound I-91. And are in Clearview.
Drove up to switch my plates over to VT last Friday, encompassing I-89 between Exits 10 & 14. The only new sign up so far is on the US 2 bridge over I-89 for Exit 14W and it is indeed in Clearview. This is big news, as many signs between Exits 12 & 17 lack exit tabs. The SB sign on that same bridge has yet to be replaced, however. Otherwise, still not much progress on other signs, giving me the impression this project may not be finished this construction season.
I just did all of 89 about a week ago. Plenty of clearview. No button copy left on I-89 northbound at all.
two classic 1957 spec I-89 shields remain northbound. One has been turned around 180 degrees, so that normally flowing traffic sees the back of the shield!
Here's an update:
New mile markers are being put in and are along I-89 between Exits 9 & 8 (most likely stretching down to Exit 3). Every 0.2 tenths of a mile, there is a mile marker the size of a traditional marker, as illustrated crudely below:
MILE
5
2
-
.2
It could be worse... at least they didn't do what NH does - put up a giant one that's about 10' tall and says the route and direction every 0.2 tenths of a mile.
Didn't mention it earlier (though I took a pic (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/4972269043/in/set-72157624574960814/)), but those 0.2 milemarkers were also added on I-91. The MP 140.0 (right at Exit 24) is the southernmost one.
The new markers look good, but the .0 addition on the even miles seems kind of overkill if you ask me.
At least they don't remind you what road you're on every 0.2/mile
Quote from: AARoads on August 19, 2010, 03:23:16 AM
Quote from: shadyjay on August 18, 2010, 11:19:41 PM
Looks like we can expect to see a lot more Clearview.... and here's why:
http://www.aot.state.vt.us/PressReleases/2010/August/NewStandardsCallForInterstateSignReplacement.htm
*shakes head reading that*
Well, will all sign replacements be carbon copies? Or will they finally put proper exit tabs for Exit 14 (U.S. 2) along Interstate 89 and ditch the "Thru Traffic" panels at the same interchange?
I finally got a chance to drive on I-89 between Exits 10 & 16 tonight for the first time in several weeks. All new BGSs are in (except 1 for Exit 12) along with all new mile markers. Regulatory signs remain to be replaced, however.
Here are some items of note:
* All signs in Clearview. They don't look that bad, but there's something I don't like about the "1/2" mileage on the signs.
* Metric-only distances after Exit 9-NB and after Exit 10-SB have been replaced with traditional mileage distances.
* Exit 12 has been changed, from "VT 2A TO US 2" to "VT 2A TO US 2 & VT 116".
* Exits 13 & north have exit tabs installed on all ground-based signs.
* NB, Exit 14 overhead for Exits 14E/W has been replaced. "THRU TRAFFIC" has been replaced with "89 NORTH/ST ALBANS". However, the signs for Exit 14 DO NOT
have any exit tabs. The sign on the US 2 bridge for Exit 14W does have an exit tab.
* SB Exit 13 destinations have changed from "Shelburne/Middlebury" to "Shelburne/Rutland". All SB signs at Exit 13 have exit tabs.
* SB, the Exit 14 1 mile sign has been replaced. However, the overhead 1/2 mile and Exit 14E/W overhead signs have NOT been replaced. Both overheads still have a
"THRU TRAFFIC" sign. These two overheads were replaced a few years ago when the SB Exit 14W ramp was widened to 2 lanes.
* SB, on the ramp at Exit 12, the overhead gantry which only had lane designation arrows now has two BGSs on it. One says "NORTH 116 TO VT 2A / Williston/Essex
Jct" and the other says "SOUTH 2A TO VT 116 / Hinesburg / Bristol".
* No "NEXT EXIT __ MILES" were spotted on any of the new signs. On another sign replacement project on I-89 earlier this year, these tabs were moved from the 1
Mile sign to the 1/2 mile sign. It's possible they just have not yet installed the tabs, seeing as the project is not fully complete yet.
In addition, green town destination signs on the ramps are in a lower case / narrow font, perhaps Clearview. Routes are posted in advance on this sign, and one where the ramp meets the surface road.
Seeing as it was dark, I could not get any pictures.... but check back soon!
Just drove most of Vermont I-89 today (Exit 17 to NH), both directions.
That amount of mileposts is, in my opinion, overkill. Also, they're the only new signs not in Clearview.
I spotted one of the old NB reassurance markers (the one that wasn't turned around). Was it not button-copy? I had a feeling it was, but I didn't have time to see it well.
Clearview looks good, IMHO. The half-mile BGS's seem to be alternating between "1/2" and the actual "½" symbol, though. I guess one of the engineers was a little lazy.
They added a French "Bienvenue" plaque under the "Welcome to Montpelier" sign.
QuoteThey added a French "Bienvenue" plaque under the "Welcome to Montpelier" sign.
As I recall, that was on the previous sign as well.
So are the "Next Exit XX Miles" placards being done away with countrywide? I noticed that Vermont was removing them and I see them very infrequently elsewhere anymore.
^^^
I've noticed the same thing, too. I've mainly seen new ones where a carbon-copy sign replacement was done.
I'm guessing that with the move to mileage based exit numbers, it is not thought to be necessary anymore.
Quote from: AARoads on November 15, 2010, 01:31:25 PM
So are the "Next Exit XX Miles" placards being done away with countrywide? I noticed that Vermont was removing them and I see them very infrequently elsewhere anymore.
Doesn't the PA Turnpike still use them?
Re: Bienvenue
The old sign said "Welcome to Montpelier / Captal of Vermont", with the French version below that. The new sign says only the English, with a "Bienvenue" added underneath.
Re: Next Exit __ Miles
Signs replaced on I-89 in Vermont this year between Exits 3 & 9 have the "NEXT EXIT __ MILES" sign. It has been moved from the 1 Mile advance sign to the 1/2 mile sign. Since the project between Exits 10 & 16 is not complete yet, its possible they just haven't gotten around to adding them yet. Exits 13, 14, and 15 never had them anyway. And there is still one old 1/2 mile advance sign for Exit 12 that has yet to be replaced. But if any of the ones should have the "NEXT EXIT __ MILES", its the Exit 11 1/2 mile SB and the Exit 10 1/2 mile NB, plus the Exit 16 1/2 mile NB, as the distances between those exits are quite substantial. Between Exits 10 & 11, its 15 miles.
Was up there again today, but forgot the camera! I'm assuming the project stops at Exit 16 since the portable VMSs on the highway say the work is being done to Colchester and that's Exit 16. My guess is next year we'll see Exits 16-22/border being done, as there are some old signs on this stretch, though not as old as the ones on I-91 that were replaced.
Also, Exit 9 on I-91 has received new signs as well. So on I-91 that leaves only Exits 1-4, 6,7,8,10 with "older" signs.
So these are going to get the axe too?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_ZkmN2RrOJxw%2FTFC236BMHKI%2FAAAAAAAAf9o%2FSGUkILlEfNs%2Fs640%2FIMG_8800.JPG&hash=218efe905aa82c96c5976494e81bbfcde951f956)
I don't see a problem with that other than it uses the older circle design. They are perfectly reflective.
I agree with you, but according to the press release, they do not meet the new standards.
http://www.aot.state.vt.us/PressReleases/2010/August/NewStandardsCallForInterstateSignReplacement.htm
Personally, I would have just done what was done prior to this year:
* Move the blue service symbols to their own sign
* Replace the circle shields with the green shield
But as the release states, the project to replace the signs doesn't tap into funds for other projects and is 100% federally funded.
And regarding that sign, I wonder if they'll keep its route as "VT 9 WEST". Since the partial text routes/partial shields onramp signs at this interchange "I-91 NORTH TO VT 9 EAST" will be replaced, my guess is the I-91 signs will read "VT 9" with a possible "TO US 5" as well. After all, I-91 exits from 1-9 all have mention of US 5 EXCEPT Exit 2.
Other questions to be answered:
"US 5/VT 11/VT 106 / Springfield" for Exit 7: Will it become "US 5/VT 11/Springfield/Charlestown NH" with a "TO VT 106" optional?
Will "AIRPORT" remain the control point for Exit 10S (I-89)?
Will a real NH route marker for 12A be placed on I-89 SB at the I-91 Exit or will it just read "I-89 SOUTH"?
That's a shame, at least I got a photo of the old font sign at the VT 9 interchange. I just wish I could have shot those old button copy signs along I-91 in their glory days. Oh well. How long is that old Connecticut River button copy sign going to stick around along I-89 at the NH/VT border?
Quote from: PennDOTFan on November 15, 2010, 03:28:51 PM
Doesn't the PA Turnpike still use them?
Actually, I don't think they do. (If someone points out that they still do, I'll feel really inattentive, as I was just on the turnpike 2 weeks ago)
Shortly after entering the turnpike, they'll have a mileage sign for the next 2 exits:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Monroeville,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.411029,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Monroeville,+Allegheny,+Pennsylvania&ll=40.432968,-79.746859&spn=0.00441,0.030899&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.432994,-79.747044&panoid=5KdyOuuxqiJ4f_HVuk_VIQ&cbp=12,146.88,,0,2.88]http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Monroeville,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.411029,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Monroeville,+Allegheny,+Pennsylvania&ll=40.432968,-79.746859&spn=0.00441,0.030899&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.432994,-79.747044&panoid=5KdyOuuxqiJ4f_HVuk_VIQ&cbp=12,146.88,,0,2.88]http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Monroeville,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.411029,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Monroeville,+Allegheny,+Pennsylvania&ll=40.432968,-79.746859&spn=0.00441,0.030899&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.432994,-79.747044&panoid=5KdyOuuxqiJ4f_HVuk_VIQ&cbp=12,146.88,,0,2.88 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Monroeville,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.411029,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Monroeville,+Allegheny,+Pennsylvania&ll=40.432968,-79.746859&spn=0.00441,0.030899&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.432994,-79.747044&panoid=5KdyOuuxqiJ4f_HVuk_VIQ&cbp=12,146.88,,0,2.88)
I can attest that as of this last weekend, the stretch of I-79 in Greene county has "Next Exit" signs with the 1-mile BGS's that are still in good shape, and will probably be around for a while:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Waynesburg,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.411029,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Waynesburg,+Greene,+Pennsylvania&ll=39.821194,-80.100374&spn=0.01981,0.045447&z=15&layer=c&cbll=39.821343,-80.100522&panoid=QHQrLyJfEZthcwB1Mj-rEw&cbp=12,162.53,,0,3.22 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Waynesburg,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.411029,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Waynesburg,+Greene,+Pennsylvania&ll=39.821194,-80.100374&spn=0.01981,0.045447&z=15&layer=c&cbll=39.821343,-80.100522&panoid=QHQrLyJfEZthcwB1Mj-rEw&cbp=12,162.53,,0,3.22)
Oh yeah... I almost forgot the one on I-279 heading north at the Camp Horne Rd. exit. Have to mention that one. (I imagine that one got that sign since it's a pretty big gap for being so close to the Pittsburgh area)
Quote from: shadyjay on July 26, 2010, 11:38:14 PM
Okay folks, here's your entire northbound I-89 signage update with before-after pics, taken 7-26-2010...
http://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I89July2010#
"Oops... there's nothing to see here. Either you do not have access to these photos, or they don't exist at this web address. Please contact the owner directly to gain access."
Guess over the course of time I had renamed the album but didn't change the link....
http://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I89SignReplacementSummer2010#
I picked up a copy of the Interstate 89 Travel Guide today at the Waterbury train station. The guide has several pages for each exit, detailing the services, attractions, and whatnot available. Each exit also has an insert with a picture of the BGS for the exit. The pictures for Exits 10-14 are still the old signs since these were replaced before press time. However, the pictures for Exits 17-22 are all in Clearview.
So the question is, did VAOT replace the signs on I-89 north of Exit 16 (Winooski) up to the Canadian border already? It's been a few years since I've been north of Exit 16 and hadn't seen any projects on their web site in past years regarding the replacement of signs up that far. I suppose its possible the signs were "photoshopped", but why go through that trouble, especially since the sign pictures for Exits 1-2 and Exits 10-14 are the older signs?
(there's also a Clearview sign of the "Midpoint-Equator to the North Pole" between Exits 21 & 22)
It's a pretty interesting guidebook, available free - most likely you can pick 'em up at the information centers/rest areas along I-89 as well (the few that are left)!
I can confirm that the BGS' for exits 16 and 17 were in Clearview as of mid-November. I wouldn't be surprised it goes all the way up to Canada. The signs for the last exits on I-91 are also Clearview.
Today I finally have confirmed the replacement of signage on I-89 all the way to the Canadian Border (Exit 22). Full photo gallery of today's images here, combined with images shot on I-89 last summer:
http://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I89SignReplacementSummer2010Spring2011#
A few items of note:
* The Exit 12-NB "at exit" sign is no longer standing. It may have collapsed due to nearby blasting or by other means. I did not observe the fallen sign on the side of
the road.
* The Exit 14-SB overhead assembly has had exit tabs installed, though the "THRU TRAFFIC" pullthrough remains.
* Onramp signs from US 2 to I-89 at Exit 14 were not replaced, though the ones at Exit 17 are new.
* There is a stretch for a mile or so near St Albans that has not yet had the new mile markers/mini markers installed. Also there are at least 2 reassurance shields that
have not yet been replaced and are quite old and faded.
* Reassurance shields north of Exit 15 are mounted on two posts and do not have the Eiesenhower Interstate System sign.
* "NEXT EXIT __ MILES" tabs have been added to the 1/2 mile advance signs.
* The oldest remaining BGS is between Exits 21 & 22-NB and reads "CANADA - 2"
* In some locations, old concrete footings for BGSs were observed alongside the roadway.
So with a confirmation of signs from Exit 3 to Exit 22, this leaves just the stretch from the NH/VT border to Exit 2 with old signs on I-89. Given VAOT's push to upgrade all signs in the state, this section may very well get replaced in 2011, along with I-91 between Exits 1 & 10.
Quote from: shadyjay on April 06, 2011, 06:36:39 PM
A few items of note:
* The Exit 14-SB overhead assembly has had exit tabs installed, though the "THRU TRAFFIC" pullthrough remains.
https://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I89SignReplacementSummer2010Spring2011#5592593936109737378 - exit tabs and the I-89 north St. Albans pull through panel are nice changes!
https://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I89SignReplacementSummer2010Spring2011#5592594202462795682 - lame, "Thru Traffic" remains. Are those Clearview exit tabs added to the Highway Gothic-based signs a stopgap, or is that the permanent solution?
Thanks for sharing those photos!
Well, at least Vermont's new clearview signs don't look that awful. They're actually nice compared to how other states handle clearview.
I'm actually quite pleased by Vermont's implementation of Clearview, and their new signage in General. I see they replaced even more signs after I clinched I-89 last November.
Is it just me, or are a few of those signs using a wider width of Clearview than the others? A few of them look a bit off...the letters seem to be a little too large and the kerning a bit off. The rest look pretty good, though.
But I wonder...how does this (https://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I89SignReplacementSummer2010Spring2011#5592595981819591586) happen on a new sign?
Quote from: cu2010 on April 07, 2011, 12:22:36 PM
But I wonder...how does this (https://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I89SignReplacementSummer2010Spring2011#5592595981819591586) happen on a new sign?
I was wondering the exact same thing as I was taking the pic... guess they just don't make 'em like they used to! ;-)
On another note, I hope to log I-91 from St Johnsbury to Derby Line in the next few weeks... harkening back to the original purpose of this thread. I'll post the link here along with comments after that drive occurs.
What type of BGSes does VT use? It looks like what I call "stacked" signage, where the sign parts are stacked horizontally with square corners. CT uses the same. Anybody know the official name?
NY uses what I call "plate" BGS, where it looks like they use square or rectangle metal plates to form their signs. NY also uses curved edges, which make their exit tabs look odd.
What type of lettering format is used? ie Buttoncopy was used before etc.
New BGS are Clearview typeface, that much I know. NY does fine because they shift the exit tab over to the edge of the curve. The other option would be to curve the exit tab but have a straight transition on the right side of the sign.
Quote from: doofy103 on April 08, 2011, 11:34:58 PMWhat type of BGSes does VT use? It looks like what I call "stacked" signage, where the sign parts are stacked horizontally with square corners. CT uses the same. Anybody know the official name?
Extruded aluminum. See:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4173.0
QuoteWhat type of lettering format is used? ie Buttoncopy was used before etc.
Clearview 5-W is used for all primary destination legend, except in certain isolated cases (e.g. rest area signs with 3-W and supplemental panels with 3-W for "long" destinations). The copy is almost certainly direct-applied (I haven't checked against the plans, but demountable copy in general is on the way out). The sign drawings have been prepared in
SignCAD.
Quote from: AlpsROADS on April 09, 2011, 08:51:19 AM
New BGS are Clearview typeface, that much I know. NY does fine because they shift the exit tab over to the edge of the curve. The other option would be to curve the exit tab but have a straight transition on the right side of the sign.
In fact Alps, sometimes in NY, the exit tab is centered by default as the exit tab is big and the BGS itself is not wide-enough to allign it, plus the fact NY doesnt put the tab over the curve. Ie. Exit 12 WB sign on I-84 in Fishkill.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 09, 2011, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: doofy103 on April 08, 2011, 11:34:58 PMWhat type of BGSes does VT use? It looks like what I call "stacked" signage, where the sign parts are stacked horizontally with square corners. CT uses the same. Anybody know the official name?
Extruded aluminum. See:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4173.0
QuoteWhat type of lettering format is used? ie Buttoncopy was used before etc.
Clearview 5-W is used for all primary destination legend, except in certain isolated cases (e.g. rest area signs with 3-W and supplemental panels with 3-W for "long" destinations). The copy is almost certainly direct-applied (I haven't checked against the plans, but demountable copy in general is on the way out). The sign drawings have been prepared in SignCAD.
If demountable copy is on its way out? What are they using instead? What's the difference with direct-applied? Thanks!
Demountable copy is cut or stamped to shape out of sheet aluminum and secured to the sign panel with rivets. Direct-applied copy is simply stuck onto the sign panel in the same way as the background sheeting--generally with pressure-sensitive adhesive.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 09, 2011, 10:36:34 AM
(I haven't checked against the plans, but demountable copy in general is on the way out). The sign drawings have been prepared in SignCAD.
Why? Demountable copy makes it easier to make changes in the sign should changes become necessary. Just take down and replace lettering, route markers, etc., vs. using greenouts.
It is just as easy to prepare message revisions by sticking the new message (and green-background patch) directly over the existing legend. Demountable legend entails a separate process for manufacturing the letter blanks and revising messages involves drilling out rivets.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 09, 2011, 09:23:15 PM
It is just as easy to prepare message revisions by sticking the new message (and green-background patch) directly over the existing legend. Demountable legend entails a separate process for manufacturing the letter blanks and revising messages involves drilling out rivets.
correct. retroreflective greenout is really easy to do. also, if correctly done, it is unnoticeable.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 09, 2011, 09:34:03 PM
correct. retroreflective greenout is really easy to do. also, if correctly done, it is unnoticeable.
Well then, I have never seen it correctly done because it jumps out at me every time I see it.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 10, 2011, 12:00:35 AM
Well then, I have never seen it correctly done
well no, by definition, you would not have.
(I can maybe dig up a photo or two of greenout that can only be seen upon close inspection ... usually by noting that white letters covered up by green still are raised very slightly and can be noted at the correct angle.)
For example, take this sign:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_6zDqXUkKvc0/TRKUouW8qwI/AAAAAAAAF2I/7Gbb598eaQs/s640/100_0411.JPG)
The one on the right is an example of greenout done right (or close). At freeway speeds it's very difficult to tell (other than by the ugliness of cramming two arrows on it... I guess NYSDOT has been taking pointers from Caltrans).
The one on the left is an example of "green" out done wrong...
Quote from: deanej on April 10, 2011, 10:05:00 AM
The one on the left is an example of "green" out done wrong...
I cannot see it at all. Seems fine to me. Or do you mean the "orangeout"?
Quote from: deanej on April 10, 2011, 10:05:00 AM
For example, take this sign:
*terrible new 590 alignment*
The one on the right is an example of greenout done right (or close). At freeway speeds it's very difficult to tell (other than by the ugliness of cramming two arrows on it... I guess NYSDOT has been taking pointers from Caltrans).
The two arrows on the greenout plate look off, though...
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2011, 01:44:24 PM
Quote from: deanej on April 10, 2011, 10:05:00 AM
The one on the left is an example of "green" out done wrong...
I cannot see it at all. Seems fine to me. Or do you mean the "orangeout"?
The left one has the exit only added in orange. The right had one arrow greened out and replaced with two.
Quote from: deanej on April 11, 2011, 09:50:31 AM
The left one has the exit only added in orange. The right had one arrow greened out and replaced with two.
And I saw the green square without any effort whatsoever. Would have been much nicer if a demountable single arrow had been removed and two new ones riveted into place.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 11, 2011, 11:51:16 AMAnd I saw the green square without any effort whatsoever. Would have been much nicer if a demountable single arrow had been removed and two new ones riveted into place.
If that had been done, I would have been able to see the rivet holes without any effort whatsoever.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 11, 2011, 12:03:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 11, 2011, 11:51:16 AMAnd I saw the green square without any effort whatsoever. Would have been much nicer if a demountable single arrow had been removed and two new ones riveted into place.
If that had been done, I would have been able to see the rivet holes without any effort whatsoever.
Except the rivet holes don't bother me, but greenout does. Guess it's just a matter of personal preference.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 11, 2011, 02:16:31 PMExcept the rivet holes don't bother me, but greenout does. Guess it's just a matter of personal preference.
Yup. When it comes down to a matter of personal preference, state DOTs demonstrate responsible use of taxpayer money by choosing the cheaper option.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 11, 2011, 04:46:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 11, 2011, 02:16:31 PMExcept the rivet holes don't bother me, but greenout does. Guess it's just a matter of personal preference.
Yup. When it comes down to a matter of personal preference, state DOTs demonstrate responsible use of taxpayer money by choosing the cheaper option.
And greenout is cheaper than demountable copy?
I would imagine it must be. Removing every letter individually and sticking new ones back up individually is a lot more labor intensive than just slapping one big piece of greenout on.
Besides, with demountable copy you have the problem of letters falling off.
Demountable copy also incurs the cost of keeping an inventory of all possible characters multiplied by the number of desired text heights, plus the added cost needed to manufacture one-off elements like diagrammatic arrows.
I much prefer demountable copy because the limited number of elements that can be used makes it less likely that some weird non-standard thing will be used. It is actually more work to break standard on demountable copy than it would be to slap any old thing up there.
Back On Topic, Now......
As promised, I did another road trip around the Green Mountain State today. I headed down I-89 from Exit 10 (Waterbury) to White River Junction, then (after a brief visit to West Lebanon NH), I-91 North to Exit 28 (Newport), then VT 105 to VT 100 back home. I did not go beyond Exit 28 on I-91 since its just one more exit and I already have photographic evidence of new signage in that area.
So some highlights:
* I-89 retains primary "Phase II" signage from 1 mile south of Exit 3 (Royalton) south to the New Hampshire state line. Some construction
was taking place in the median around Exit 1 with some conduits sticking out.... not sure what that was about. The button copy sign on
the west end of the Connecticut River bridge remains. In addition, the NH Exit 20 BGS has been replaced, amist major construction
throughout that interchange.
* I-91 signage was replaced last year between Exit 24 (Lyndonville) and Exit 29. Signs are in Clearview and have had some minor
destination and route changes (especially for Exits 24 & 25). Full size 0.2/mile markers appear starting at Exit 24 - south of there, only
the full miles are makred with a traditional mile marker with other mileage defined by small green on white squares. The "highest elevation
on I-91" sign has been retained but is *much* smaller now - about the size of the Eiesenhower Interstate System signs. In addition,
each "reassurance" route marker carries the EIS shield and is mounted on a single pole. After Exit 26-NB, the mileage/control point sign
reads "NEWPORT - 6.... SHERBROOKE - 43". I got off the interstate at Exit 28 as time was running short and we were getting hungry.
Here's the photos:
http://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I89SignReplacementSummer2010Spring2011#
http://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I91Vermont#
(the newest signs don't start until Exit 24)
The replacement of signs on I-91 from Exit 24, northward, represents the last of the "significant" button copy interstate signage in Vermont. The only areas where older signage remains is on I-91 from the Mass border to Exit 10 (White River Jct) and I-89 between the NH border and before Exit 3. Judging by a press release issued by VAOT last year, it is likely that those last older signs are on borrowed time as well, though definitely aren't as classic as those on northern sections of I-91 were.
*
How about the non-clearview BGSs on US 4 between Rutland and the New York border? Are those going to be the next to hit the axe? Is the short I-93 in Vermont completely clearviewized as well?
QuoteIs the short I-93 in Vermont completely clearviewized as well?
Not yet.
I-91 between Exits 11 & 23 and US 4 (west of Rutland) was all replaced within the past 5 years. Those signs are NOT in Clearview but are reflective.
I-89 between Exits 3 & 22 is now all Clearview (except one sign in Burlington for Exit 14) and is all reflective.
"Endangered Species" are on I-89 between the NH border and Exit 3 and I-91 between the MA border and Exit 10.
The very first sign bridge on I-91 SB just after the border checkpoint has not been Clearviewized.