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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: golden eagle on May 23, 2010, 08:08:27 PM

Title: Gaps in state highways
Post by: golden eagle on May 23, 2010, 08:08:27 PM
Two that I know of right off in Mississippi:

Mississippi 149 runs through Simpson County. However, another leg of 149 was created a few years ago in the Delta (at least a good 90 miles apart) when the Yazoo City-to-Silver City portion of U.S. 49W was re-routed. The new route bypasses towns like Louise and Midnight. There is no signage of 149 along U.S. 49 between D'Lo and Yazoo City.

The western leg of Mississippi 18 runs from Port Gibson to I-20 in southwest Jackson. There is a 15-mile gap until 18 appears again in Brandon. Like MS 149, there is no signage along I-20. I don't know why MDOT doesn't sign 18 along I-20 since it's such a relatively short distance.   
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: corco on May 23, 2010, 08:26:33 PM
Wyoming has a few
WYO 89 dips out of Wyoming and into Utah, then resumes at the Utah state line many miles south without any WYO 89 signage in Utah.
WYO 230 does the same thing with Colorado.
WYO 374 is old US-30(N) and US-30S and exists in a couple segments (similar to 149, I believe, which if I'm not mistaken is an old alignment of US-49)- it heads from Green River and parallels I-80 all the way to Little America. It then ends and resumes off of US-30 just north of where 30 splits from I-80 and heads west to I-80 a few miles away.

Washington has a couple too
Washington SR 501 heads through Vancouver and dead ends north of it. It then resumes in Ridgefield and heads east to I-5. The two segments were supposed to be connected, but it never happened.
Washington SR 99 as of 2003 has a gap between the SR 518 junction north to SR 599. The city of Tukwila wanted to maintain the road so changes wouldn't constantly have to pass through WSDOT, and since Washington doesn't sign locally maintained highways as state routes, the highway now has a gap.

There's a few in Nebraska too
N-27 exists in three separate segments- one goes from N-2 at Ellsworth up to South Dakota, and one goes from US-26 near Oshkosh and heads south to the Colorado line, where the roadway continues as a county road. These two segments are on one longitudinal plane and could theoretically be connected one day. The third N-27 is down in Haigler off US-34 and is a very short spur down to K-27/Kansas State Line.

N-103 has two segments as well- one goes from I-80 south to N-4 west of Beatrice, and the other goes from US-136 west of Beatrice south to N-8. These are also on the same longitudinal plane and could theoretically be connected one day.

I'm pretty sure there's some others in Nebraska but can't remember them off the top of my head.

In Kansas, there's K-8 which goes from US-36 to Nebraska, and then from K-2 to Oklahoma.

There's too many to count in Arkansas- and then you've got states like Utah and Colorado that generally don't sign concurrencies, which leads to a lot of gaps.

There's a bunch of other gaps in Mississippi too- I'm pretty sure almost all the 1xx (xx- old US highway number) routes have multiple segments.

Those who play by the legislative definition of highway rules instead of what is actually signed in the field (I don't) would find countless gaps in Washington, California, Utah, Colorado, and several other states.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: TheStranger on May 23, 2010, 08:44:31 PM
Gaps (in signage) in California:

Route 271 north of Leggett along US 101
Route 16 between Woodland and eastern Sacramento, along I-5 and US 50
Route 39 between Fullerton and Azusa
Route 193 between Auburn and Cool along I-80 and Route 49
Route 162 between Covelo and Elk Creek (along unimproved forest road)
Route 84 between Livermore and Rio Vista

Route 168 and Route 190 through the Sierras (gap not built)
Route 65 between Exter and Roseville (gap not yet built)

Route 178 through Death Valley (not built)

Route 196 through the Yurok reservation (destroyed in 1960s flood)

Not sure if Route 138 is well-signed along Route 14 between Lancaster and Palmdale.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: xonhulu on May 23, 2010, 08:50:13 PM
Isn't there also a gap in WA 509, between its junction with 516 and the start of its southern segment off 99?

And in California, add CA 146, which is broken by Pinnacles Nat'l Monument.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: TheStranger on May 23, 2010, 08:54:57 PM
Quote from: xonhulu on May 23, 2010, 08:50:13 PM

And in California, add CA 146, which is broken by Pinnacles Nat'l Monument.

Thanks for catching that one!  (I drove on the west end of it in my US 101 trip a few months ago)

Another one: Route 47 along Seaside Boulevard in Terminal Island, not sure how well it's signed. 

Route 90 between Culver City and La Habra (unbuilt freeway that will never be constructed)

Route 1 between Gaviota and west Ventura, along US 101



Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: national highway 1 on May 23, 2010, 08:59:12 PM
How about US 422?
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 23, 2010, 09:04:29 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on May 23, 2010, 08:54:57 PM
Another one: Route 47 along Seaside Boulevard in Terminal Island, not sure how well it's signed. 


not well at all, but 103 is signed as 47, except where it is signed as 103.  It's a real clusterfudge.

gaps in state highways are fairly baffling.  Okay, maybe I can understand not building the Sierra crossing, but I'm still baffled by my attempt to follow CA-84 to Sacramento that one time...
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: TheStranger on May 23, 2010, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 23, 2010, 09:04:29 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on May 23, 2010, 08:54:57 PM
Another one: Route 47 along Seaside Boulevard in Terminal Island, not sure how well it's signed. 


not well at all, but 103 is signed as 47, except where it is signed as 103.  It's a real clusterfudge.

Actually, I think this isn't quite a gap:

47's exit off of the Terminal Island Freeway is NOT signed at all for Route 47, but 47 continues northwest along Alameda Street and Henry Ford Avenue (not sure how well this is signed either), while 103 is signed as 103 for its entirety, from Route 47 northeast to Route 1.


Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 23, 2010, 09:04:29 PM
gaps in state highways are fairly baffling.  Okay, maybe I can understand not building the Sierra crossing, but I'm still baffled by my attempt to follow CA-84 to Sacramento that one time...

I'm honestly not sure why this is considered one route at all, the north-south segment of 84 really should be given another number (as the middle segment connecting the two is unlikely to ever be signed along the existing county roads, and the routing doesn't exactly follow one unified corridor).
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Ian on May 23, 2010, 09:36:39 PM
-ME 113; It dips into NH a few times, which could be considered a gap.
-NY 17; It dips into PA near Waverly, NY
-NH 153 dips into Maine also
-FL A1A is sort of in gaps, though maps suggest it follows US 1 during those gaps
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on May 23, 2010, 09:45:31 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on May 23, 2010, 08:08:27 PM
Two that I know of right off in Mississippi:

Mississippi 149 runs through Simpson County. However, another leg of 149 was created a few years ago in the Delta (at least a good 90 miles apart) when the Yazoo City-to-Silver City portion of U.S. 49W was re-routed. The new route bypasses towns like Louise and Midnight. There is no signage of 149 along U.S. 49 between D'Lo and Yazoo City.

The western leg of Mississippi 18 runs from Port Gibson to I-20 in southwest Jackson. There is a 15-mile gap until 18 appears again in Brandon. Like MS 149, there is no signage along I-20. I don't know why MDOT doesn't sign 18 along I-20 since it's such a relatively short distance.   

There's several MS 145, 149, 161, and 180 throughout Mississippi showing the former routings for US 45, 49, 61, and 80.
MS 32 breaks between Shelby and Parchman due to the Mississippi State penetentury (aka Parchman Farms)
MS 3 runs from just south of Tenn/Miss state line to Tutwiler, shows up again from Sunflower to Inverness, and lastly from Yazoo City to Redwood
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: corco on May 23, 2010, 10:20:07 PM
QuoteIsn't there also a gap in WA 509, between its junction with 516 and the start of its southern segment off 99?

Nope- It is coincident with 99 and 516 over that routing and is signed as such. There's two incidents where it's signed, and WSDOT route logs acknowledge a 509/99 and 509/516 coincidence. In fairness, 99 and 516 are also very poorly marked through that area. The signs weren't up yet when I was living there, so here's some SRWeb/street view pictures:  

http://images.wsdot.wa.gov/StateRoute/PictureLog/2009/NW/509/M/M/I/01/M/01742M.JPG (approaching SR 99)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=des+moines+wa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=28.114729,86.572266&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Des+Moines,+King,+Washington&ll=47.390985,-122.3118&spn=0.002927,0.010568&z=17&layer=c&cbll=47.390894,-122.311796&panoid=ovu8pFaBGxTwmkCDPuooFQ&cbp=12,35.49,,0,5 (old SR 509 approaching 509/516)


Now, if the proposed SR 509 freeway extension (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/I5/SR509FreightCongestionRelief/) is ever built for southern Seatac access (proposed to run from where the 509 freeway ends on the west side of Seatac down to I-5), then there will be a legitimate gap (or some weird multiplexing) along 99 and I-5, assuming the roadway is numbered "509"
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: huskeroadgeek on May 23, 2010, 11:02:51 PM
Quote from: corco on May 23, 2010, 08:26:33 PM

There's a few in Nebraska too
N-27 exists in three separate segments- one goes from N-2 at Ellsworth up to South Dakota, and one goes from US-26 near Oshkosh and heads south to the Colorado line, where the roadway continues as a county road. These two segments are on one longitudinal plane and could theoretically be connected one day. The third N-27 is down in Haigler off US-34 and is a very short spur down to K-27/Kansas State Line.

N-103 has two segments as well- one goes from I-80 south to N-4 west of Beatrice, and the other goes from US-136 west of Beatrice south to N-8. These are also on the same longitudinal plane and could theoretically be connected one day.

I'm pretty sure there's some others in Nebraska but can't remember them off the top of my head.

NE 2, probably the most important state numbered highway in the state, has a gap itself-between I-80 Exit 318 and its junction with the US 77 freeway on the W. side of Lincoln (it formerly was continuous, mostly following US 34 between Lincoln and Grand Island).

SE Nebraska has a few other state highways with gaps-NE 62 and NE 64 have 2 separate segments and NE 66 has 3. In Northeast Nebraska, NE 57 and NE 59 have 2 separate segments and NE 121 has 3. The northernmost 2 segments of NE 121 have a gap of only about 8 miles between NE 84 and NE 12 and are connected by a paved road-I'm not sure why they have never been connected.

It's already been mentioned that Arkansas has a bunch of them-I would guess the record for the state highway with the most gaps would be AR 74, which has 8 separate sections that are not connected.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: bugo on May 23, 2010, 11:11:20 PM
Quote from: huskeroadgeek on May 23, 2010, 11:02:51 PM
It's already been mentioned that Arkansas has a bunch of them-I would guess the record for the state highway with the most gaps would be AR 74, which has 8 separate sections that are not connected.
I'd list all the gaps in Arkansas state highways, but I don't have that much time.  It would likely be the longest post in aaroads.com history.  Another thing to consider is that some gaps are not verifiable until a field check is done.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: hbelkins on May 23, 2010, 11:18:47 PM
Kentucky's most significant highway with gaps is KY 8. It has three separate segments.

KY 87 also has a gap where the route dives into Tennessee. You can stay on that route, make a couple of turns, and re-emerge into Kentucky on another incarnation of KY 87.

There are a couple of routes that have gaps where there is no river crossing, namely KY 57 (Licking River in northeastern KY) and KY 70 (Cumberland River in western KY).
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: akotchi on May 23, 2010, 11:19:25 PM
Two examples in New Jersey:

NJ 440 (NY 440 segment intervenes)
NJ 7 exists in two separate segments.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: mapman1071 on May 24, 2010, 01:33:20 AM
AZ64 Officially does not Exist within Grand Canyon National Park.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 24, 2010, 01:38:05 AM
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/AZ/AZ20010641i1.jpg)

this sign implies that it is signed in the Grand Canyon (or the National Park Service does not know of the word "to"). 
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 24, 2010, 01:40:04 AM
speaking of Arizona... I believe Arizona 95 still unofficially ducks into California to this day.  In Needles there are several ADOT-issued signs that say "to 95", trailblazing it correctly in both directions. 
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Scott5114 on May 24, 2010, 02:10:02 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 24, 2010, 01:38:05 AM
[image]

this sign implies that it is signed in the Grand Canyon (or the National Park Service does not know of the word "to"). 

It could also be saying "AZ 64 park exit", distinguishing it from other park exits.

It can also be said that the NPS does not know of the proper Arizona route marker or its coloring scheme!
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: froggie on May 24, 2010, 07:25:49 AM
QuoteTwo that I know of right off in Mississippi:

You (and Sandor) also missed 16 (which officially has TWO gaps), 44, and 404, amongst others...

QuoteThere's several MS 145, 149, 161, and 180 throughout Mississippi showing the former routings for US 45, 49, 61, and 80.

I wouldn't count these, since they're akin to business routes and were specifically created to keep old parts of the US routes (bypassed by new construction) on the state highway system.

BTW, there is no MS 180.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Brandon on May 24, 2010, 07:50:48 AM
Indiana with its grid system has many gaps in its state roads.  I or someone else can name them later.  Some routes even come in three parts.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: US71 on May 24, 2010, 09:03:08 AM
AR 215 stops & starts east of AR 23 (but will eventually go all the way to Oark). Part of it is Forest Service road.

AR 154 on a technicality at Petit Jean State Park (it's state maintained, but is posted as a county road (Petit Jean Mountain Road) a couple miles outside the park.

Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 24, 2010, 10:45:12 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 24, 2010, 02:10:02 AM
It can also be said that the NPS does not know of the proper Arizona route marker or its coloring scheme!

at least they have the proper state outline.  I have no idea why Arizona stopped making shields that way sometime in the 1960s.

(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/AZ/AZ19630771i1.jpg)

Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: golden eagle on May 24, 2010, 11:07:57 AM
Quote from: froggie on May 24, 2010, 07:25:49 AM
QuoteTwo that I know of right off in Mississippi:

You (and Sandor) also missed 16 (which officially has TWO gaps), 44, and 404, amongst others...

I was just thinking about 16! As many times as I've been down the old 49W/new MS 149, I never saw 16 being duplexed with it.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: oscar on May 24, 2010, 11:33:43 AM
AK 10 has two segments, the Edgerton Highway between Chitina and the Richardson Highway (AK 4), and the Copper River Highway between Cordova and the Million Dollar Bridge.  An abandoned railbed between Chitina and the Million Dollar Bridge, which was being slowly converted to a highway, was trashed by the 1964 Good Friday earthquake, and the project never recovered from that blow (environmental and tribal claims issues also would be obstacles). 

AK 7 has four segments (Canadian border-Haines, Juneau, Petersburg, and Ketchikan), but auto ferries connect those segments.

Hawaii dealt with its gaps by renumberings (such as HI 93 and 930 in northwest Oahu, once Hawaii DOT gave up on building a connection around Kaena Point), or transfers out of the state route system (such as with HI 31 and CR 31 in south Maui).
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Rover_0 on May 24, 2010, 12:49:39 PM
For Utah, anywhere a state route is involved with a multiplex is considered a gap (and even with US Routes and I-84, in the legislature books, at least, though their mileposts continue throughout the multiplex):

--UT-30 has 2, the first from the I-84 interchange to I-15's Exit 385 (connected by I-84 and I-15), then another one on US-89 from Logan to Garden City

--UT-118 in Richfield is overlayed with UT-120 (Richfield's I-70 business loop) from the south end of town to the north end, splitting off and following US-89's former alignment (since US-89 is duplexed with I-70)

--UT-71 has a short one in multiplexing US-89 at the very south end of state street in the Salt Lake Valley.

--UT-48 has one with UT-68 (Redwood Road), though there are some signs pointing you in the direction of westbound UT-48 along with southbound UT-68:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3118%2F2384028570_6ba33d729c_o.jpg&hash=9bdfad6b2c92aed2d062b39dac4cc06f00e7b6e4)
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Bickendan on May 24, 2010, 03:06:10 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 24, 2010, 01:40:04 AM
speaking of Arizona... I believe Arizona 95 still unofficially ducks into California to this day.  In Needles there are several ADOT-issued signs that say "to 95", trailblazing it correctly in both directions. 
I just checked the route on Google; it doesn't look like AZ 95 hits California at all, though it comes close at I-40 exit 1.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Bryant5493 on May 24, 2010, 07:11:41 PM
Mississippi State Route 15 has a gap, as well as Georgia State Route 28. S.R. 28 continues into South and North Carolina with the same number, and then it re-enters Georgia in the northeast portion of the state.


Be well,

Bryant
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: TheStranger on May 24, 2010, 07:34:38 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on May 24, 2010, 03:06:10 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 24, 2010, 01:40:04 AM
speaking of Arizona... I believe Arizona 95 still unofficially ducks into California to this day.  In Needles there are several ADOT-issued signs that say "to 95", trailblazing it correctly in both directions. 
I just checked the route on Google; it doesn't look like AZ 95 hits California at all, though it comes close at I-40 exit 1.


The route Google Maps shows as being part of AZ 95 from I-40 Exit 1 to the intersection of Harbor and Courtwright near Arizona Village has been deprecated - IIRC, it runs through Native American lands - so 95 officially has a gap between I-40 Exit 9 in Arizona and the aforementioned intersection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Route_95
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: national highway 1 on May 25, 2010, 12:30:38 AM
On Google Maps, it shows AZ 95 continuing from an exit E of the Colorado. Is that true?
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: TheStranger on May 25, 2010, 01:00:08 AM
Quote from: ausinterkid on May 25, 2010, 12:30:38 AM
On Google Maps, it shows AZ 95 continuing from an exit E of the Colorado. Is that true?


AZ 95 north of I-40 Exit 1 to the bridge to Needles is no longer state-maintained and no longer signed as AZ 95.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 25, 2010, 01:05:34 AM
Quote from: TheStranger on May 25, 2010, 01:00:08 AM

AZ 95 north of I-40 Exit 1 to the bridge to Needles is no longer state-maintained and no longer signed as AZ 95.

that must be the section I was thinking of when I thought it went into California.

Google Maps shows Mojave County route 1 as 95, and in fact there was as of 2007 a 95 sign in Golden Shores.

(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/AZ/AZ19750951i1.jpg)

however, the way the road is trailblazed in California is to take I-40 into Needles, and then K Street to Levee Way, across the state line to Harbor Ave, and then reconnect with Mojave County 1 at Courtwright Road.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: national highway 1 on May 25, 2010, 06:01:27 PM
Why does AZDot let AZ 95 traffic into CA? It's a stupid place to leave a gap and a detour in a SH
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: TheStranger on May 25, 2010, 06:08:52 PM
Quote from: ausinterkid on May 25, 2010, 06:01:27 PM
Why does AZDot let AZ 95 traffic into CA? It's a stupid place to leave a gap and a detour in a SH

AZDot actually paid for the signage in Needles IIRC, as they came up with the routing in the wake of transferring the old alignment to the county.  Basically, they were not going to continue to hold rights to the existing route from I-40 north (which runs in Native American territory) and as an alternative, put up the permanent detour.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: WNYroadgeek on May 26, 2010, 02:05:42 AM
PA 426 is split into two separate portions as it goes into New York for 13 miles, where it is designated as NY 426.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: national highway 1 on May 26, 2010, 04:06:59 AM
US 422 has a gap because of its parent US 22
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Revive 755 on May 28, 2010, 09:23:08 PM
Quote from: corco on May 23, 2010, 08:26:33 PM
N-103 has two segments as well- one goes from I-80 south to N-4 west of Beatrice, and the other goes from US-136 west of Beatrice south to N-8. These are also on the same longitudinal plane and could theoretically be connected one day.

If Nebraska ever bothers to get rid of their ridiculous mileage cap  :ded:

What's worse is that some of the routes had numbers changed that resulted in the creation of gaps.  I'm pretty sure the southern half of NE 103 was a two digit route at one time.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 28, 2010, 09:32:15 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 28, 2010, 09:23:08 PM
mileage cap

I've still not yet heard a cogent explanation for why this is a good idea. Anyone know why states have this policy?
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: huskeroadgeek on May 28, 2010, 10:55:21 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 28, 2010, 09:23:08 PM
Quote from: corco on May 23, 2010, 08:26:33 PM
N-103 has two segments as well- one goes from I-80 south to N-4 west of Beatrice, and the other goes from US-136 west of Beatrice south to N-8. These are also on the same longitudinal plane and could theoretically be connected one day.
I have lived in Nebraska for most of my life, and I have never heard of anything about a
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 28, 2010, 09:23:08 PM
Quote from: corco on May 23, 2010, 08:26:33 PM
N-103 has two segments as well- one goes from I-80 south to N-4 west of Beatrice, and the other goes from US-136 west of Beatrice south to N-8. These are also on the same longitudinal plane and could theoretically be connected one day.

If Nebraska ever bothers to get rid of their ridiculous mileage cap  :ded:

What's worse is that some of the routes had numbers changed that resulted in the creation of gaps.  I'm pretty sure the southern half of NE 103 was a two digit route at one time.
mileage cap
If Nebraska ever bothers to get rid of their ridiculous mileage cap  :ded:

What's worse is that some of the routes had numbers changed that resulted in the creation of gaps.  I'm pretty sure the southern half of NE 103 was a two digit route at one time.
I have never heard anything about a mileage cap in Nebraska. Not saying there isn't one, but I've just never heard of it. Where did you hear about this? BTW-the southern half of NE 103 has been NE 103 since it was created in the 1930s, as far as I know. The portion between Crete and NE 4 used to be NE 82 until about 1970-I don't know why they changed the number. Perhaps they intended at the time to connect the two sections.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on May 29, 2010, 01:38:23 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 28, 2010, 09:32:15 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 28, 2010, 09:23:08 PM
mileage cap

I've still not yet heard a cogent explanation for why this is a good idea. Anyone know why states have this policy?

Because they have a finite amount of employees and money?
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: hbelkins on May 29, 2010, 12:01:50 PM
Forgot about Tennessee's most prominent gap, which is TN 66. That route runs from Sevierville to I-40 and then disappears. It pops back up to the northeast somewhere (I forget the town) and there is no signage in the gap.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: national highway 1 on May 29, 2010, 07:52:04 PM
Why does US 422 have a gap?
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Scott5114 on May 29, 2010, 09:39:56 PM
Quote from: osu-lsu on May 29, 2010, 01:38:23 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 28, 2010, 09:32:15 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 28, 2010, 09:23:08 PM
mileage cap

I've still not yet heard a cogent explanation for why this is a good idea. Anyone know why states have this policy?

Because they have a finite amount of employees and money?

I assume it is to force the DOT to focus on the "truly" important routes, to avoid situations like Wyoming (random spur routes off to nowhere) or Missouri and Texas (gobs and gobs of secondary, local-access routes on the state rolls). Oklahoma is such a mileage-cap state, yet that still doesn't stop things like OK-96 from existing. :ded:
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: TheStranger on May 30, 2010, 02:42:54 AM
The bigger question that has to be raised is this: What navigational purpose does a true route gap (so not counting definitional technicalities that do not reflect signed concurrencies in the field, even as vaguely signed as those around I-465) serve?  If the gap is substantial enough, it practically calls for using a second route number for the second segment.

I guess in California's case, it seems as if it requires legislative action to do anything highway-related - even something as simple as a renumbering - so it's easier to maintain stasis and just remove route segments piece-by-piece, which doesn't benefit anyone on a signage level whatsoever.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Revive 755 on May 30, 2010, 06:28:24 PM
Quote from: huskerroadgeekhave never heard anything about a mileage cap in Nebraska. Not saying there isn't one, but I've just never heard of it. Where did you hear about this?

Via NDOR, through two different employees on two different occasions, and one person who may have been on whatever form the state highway commission takes out in Nebraska.

Quote from: osu-lsuBecause they have a finite amount of employees and money?

And the same supplies are infinite for the cities and counties?  A cap would work better if Nebraska had a good county system like Iowa.

Quote from: Scott5114I assume it is to force the DOT to focus on the "truly" important routes, to avoid situations like Wyoming (random spur routes off to nowhere) or Missouri and Texas (gobs and gobs of secondary, local-access routes on the state rolls).

Might have been the intent, but that doesn't seem to work well when the system needs to be expanded.  Worst examples I can think of are dumping NE 44 through Kearney when the new bypass for NE 10 opens some year, NE 2 through Lincoln if the South Beltway ever gets built (current NE 2 through most of Lincoln is at least a semi-expressway), and dumping NE 370 when the new bridge for US 34 opens south of Bellevue, but the existing NE 370 bridge stays open.  And if the focus is on truly important routes, why hasn't US 6 been rerouted onto I-480, or US 275 and NE 92 at least partly on I-80?
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: huskeroadgeek on May 30, 2010, 10:23:12 PM
So are you saying those routes shouldn't be dropped from the system when said bypasses are built? I don't see any reason to keep the old routes in the system if they are just city routes. My guess is NE 44 would just be ended at I-80 rather than at US 30, the eastern segment of NE 2 would just be rerouted to begin at where the South Beltway meets US 77(it will likely follow Saltillo Rd. since it is already a major E-W county road), and NE 370 would probably be ended at US 75. All of those make sense to me. Why US 6 through downtown Omaha has never been put on I-480 or why US 275/NE 92 still goes on L St. instead of following I-80 I don't know.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: TheStranger on May 31, 2010, 03:37:20 AM
I think it depends on the importance of the city route too: sometimes they handle so much regional traffic that they should continue to receive state maintenance, as is the case with Routes 82 and 238 in the San Francisco Bay Area, and US 40/287/Business I-70 (Colfax Avenue) in Denver.

Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Revive 755 on May 31, 2010, 09:52:53 PM
^Well, I would consider the current NE 2 in Lincoln, current NE 44 and NE 10 in Kearney, and NE 370 important for regionally traffic.  Current NE 2 would still be the main route into Lincoln from the SouthEast, and the volumes appear to stay high enough that the city will be looking at major upgrades that could include replacing some intersections with interchanges.  NE 44 and NE 10 would still be the main route into Kearney (I'm not sure Kearney even needs an eastern bypass anyway - is there really that much traffic going through on NE 44-NE 10?).  NE 370 is important for regional traffic since it connects to a river crossing.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: huskeroadgeek on May 31, 2010, 10:28:39 PM
Moving NE 2 to the South Beltway(if it ever gets built) would remove most of the truck traffic off of the current route, which is the biggest gripe people have about it now. I have not heard of any plans to add interchanges to the current route-but I suppose it could happen at some point. A bypass of Kearney has been talked about for a long time. 2nd Avenue(the current NE 44/NE 10) can be pretty busy all the way up to the NE 40 jct., which is where the bypass would come in at. NE 370 is a very important regional route going between I-80 and Papillion/Bellevue, but less so E. of US 75, where it's mostly local traffic. The current bridge though is important as a connection for local traffic to I-29, but I guess the assumption is that more of the local traffic would use the new US 34 bridge since it would bypass Plattsmouth and come in closer to Bellevue on US 75.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: florida on June 01, 2010, 04:48:59 PM
FL 189 (one in Fort Walton Beach/Mary Esther area, the other from Baker to the Alabama Line)
FL 228 (a break between Maxville and Macclenny)
FL 2 (one in the Panhandle, the other north of Lake City)
FL 145 (if you consider it a gap)
FL 15 (three segments)
FL 5 (a break in West Palm Beach)
FL 115 (both segments end two exits from each other on I-95)
FL 211 (Ortega Bridge is state maintained, but not signed)
FL 231 (one in Brooker, another in Lake Butler)
FL 25 (a break between Belleview and Lady Lake)
FL 551 (technically has a split near its southern end)
FL 590 (not maintained through Safety Harbor)
FL 582 (one in Tarpon Springs, another in Tampa)
FL 54 (split near I-75, bypassed by newer-created FL 56 and FL 581)
FL 600 (split in Lakeland)
FL 17 (loops in Sebring/Avon Park and then runs parallel to US 27 in Polk County up to Haines City)
FL 78 (one in Fort Myers, another from LaBelle to Okeechobee)
FL 951 (from Marco Island to US 41, and another is the short connector between FL 84 and I-75 in Naples)
FL 80 (technically there is a split in downtown Fort Myers)
FL 865 (two segments in Fort Myers)
FL 811 (one in Broward County, two others in Palm Beach County)
FL 806 (a break in downtown Delray Beach.)
FL 820 (a break in downtown Hollywood)
FL 922 (not maintained across the toll bridge)
FL 825 (both along SW 137th, one serves the Tamiami Airport in Kendall, the other connects US 41 to the extended FL 836)

Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: J N Winkler on June 02, 2010, 05:32:18 PM
I am pretty sure Nebraska's mileage cap is fixed by statute--that is certainly the case in Kansas.  The purpose of mileage caps is to prevent the state DOT from overcommitting itself.  The states which have mileage caps tend to give the state transportation agency head (or equivalent official) unfettered discretion to designate state highways, subject to certain other constraints--in Kansas there is a general expectation that a county will have at least a north-south and an east-west state highway, with other routes being fixed by the state DOT on the basis of traffic requirements and other considerations.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: Brandon on June 02, 2010, 05:35:37 PM
^^
Indiana's got the same type of cap for INDOT, fixed by statute.  That's why you have so many routes on the I-465 beltway around Indy.  Last I looked, their mileage cap was 12,000 miles.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: njroadhorse on June 02, 2010, 09:04:29 PM
GA 94 has a gap that is actually one segment of the gapped FL 2.
Title: Re: Gaps in state highways
Post by: dave19 on June 03, 2010, 05:58:57 PM
Quote from: ausinterkid on May 29, 2010, 07:52:04 PM
Why does US 422 have a gap?
Ausinterkid, read this web page for your answer:
http://wwwcf.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/us22.cfm