DST begins this weekend. (No debate, please, lest this thread be locked.)
Legislation has been introduced in Congress to make DST permanent and year-round. (https://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article249826173.html#storylink=mainstage_lead) (Again, please, no debates to cause this thread to be locked.)
Within that story is this line:
"The U.S. Department of Transportation, which oversees the observance of DST..."
Why does USDOT administer DST? Why is this not the purview of, say, Commerce, Interior, or another department? Is it because time zones were originally created to standardize railroad schedules?
The Department of Transportation didn't exist until 1967 and the responsibility to regulate time was transferred to it as part of the statute creating it. The DOT website says Congress assigned that agency the responsibility because of the importance of time to many modes of transportation.
Prior to then, the Interstate Commerce Commission (itself abolished in 1995) regulated time zones in the USA beginning in 1918 when the Standard Time Act was enacted. The ICC's original purpose, as you surmise, was to regulate the railroads.
Yep. Standardized time zones were originally for railroad coordination.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 02:06:58 PM
DST begins this weekend. (No debate, please, lest this thread be locked.)
Or rather, outright deleted.
Also, DST is good and bad. :spin:
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 10, 2021, 03:50:39 PM
Also, DST is good and bad. :spin:
Alanland Standard Daylight Time
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 10, 2021, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 02:06:58 PM
DST begins this weekend. (No debate, please, lest this thread be locked.)
Or rather, outright deleted.
Also, DST is good and bad. :spin:
Seriously, pick one and go with it. Critical operations should be synchronized in UTC, anyway.
Of course, time zones and DST in DOT aren't the only oddities in federal government administration. Energy, not Defense, oversees the nuclear weapons program.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on March 10, 2021, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 10, 2021, 03:50:39 PM
Also, DST is good and bad. :spin:
Alanland Standard Daylight Time
At the sound of the tone, the time will and will not be precisely 12 goat.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on March 10, 2021, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 10, 2021, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 02:06:58 PM
DST begins this weekend. (No debate, please, lest this thread be locked.)
Or rather, outright deleted.
Also, DST is good and bad. :spin:
Seriously, pick one and go with it.
I shall pick one, pick the other one, and then go with both and also neither at the same time.
Railroads also handled DST differently than states. Each timetable district had its own official time. I worked on a project on CSX (former Baltimore & Ohio) in Western Illinois. The local signal supervisor was based in Vincennes, Indiana, so I was required to stay there on days he would be working with us. The railroad split in Washington, Indiana. The St. Louis East subdivision was on Cincinnati time; the St. Louis West subdivision was on St. Louis time. I had to work there during the time change. Everybody see where this is going?
We needed to arrive at the project at 7:00AM on St. Louis time. During standard time, I would get up about 4:00AM EST to pick up the signal supervisor just after 4:30AM EST to have enough time to grab breakfast and still have plenty of time drive to Shattuc, Illinois (not quite 2-1/2 hours with an almost straight shot on US-50). But after the time change (or lack thereof), St. Louis time springs forward an hour and Vincennes time stands still. You got the picture. After a few days, I finally begged off and got permission to stay in Salem.
By the way, my watch was required to stay on St. Louis time during the project except on the days that worked in Little Washington, where the headquarters observed Cincinnati time (even though clocks for the dispatchers on the St. Louis West End showed St. Louis time.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 06:56:01 PM
Of course, time zones and DST in DOT aren't the only oddities in federal government administration. Energy, not Defense, oversees the nuclear weapons program.
I've always thought NOAA and NWS being part of the Department of Commerce (instead of something like Interior or the EPA) was odd. At one point it was under USDA.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 10, 2021, 10:19:19 PM
Railroads also handled DST differently than states. Each timetable district had its own official time. I worked on a project on CSX (former Baltimore & Ohio) in Western Illinois. The local signal supervisor was based in Vincennes, Indiana, so I was required to stay there on days he would be working with us. The railroad split in Washington, Indiana. The St. Louis East subdivision was on Cincinnati time; the St. Louis West subdivision was on St. Louis time. I had to work there during the time change. Everybody see where this is going?
We needed to arrive at the project at 7:00AM on St. Louis time. During standard time, I would get up about 4:00AM EST to pick up the signal supervisor just after 4:30AM EST to have enough time to grab breakfast and still have plenty of time drive to Shattuc, Illinois (not quite 2-1/2 hours with an almost straight shot on US-50). But after the time change (or lack thereof), St. Louis time springs forward an hour and Vincennes time stands still. You got the picture. After a few days, I finally begged off and got permission to stay in Salem.
By the way, my watch was required to stay on St. Louis time during the project except on the days that worked in Little Washington, where the headquarters observed Cincinnati time (even though clocks for the dispatchers on the St. Louis West End showed St. Louis time.
Pfft. No one knew what time it was in Indiana.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 02:06:58 PM
DST begins this weekend. (No debate, please, lest this thread be locked.)
Not for another two weeks for me. This always causes me headaches, since I like to track a certain trucker around using Central... Europe Time (i.e. my time), and for several weeks a year I'm off-sync. This time, though, it will be only two weeks, instead of three like last year.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on March 10, 2021, 05:49:04 PM
Seriously, pick one and go with it. Critical operations should be synchronized in UTC, anyway.
As noted above I go with CET/CEST for convenience sake :sombrero:. Ah, you meant with or without DST? Then I don't mind.
N.b.: Yes, I know "CET/CEST" is British usage and I should use "CEST/CEDT" to mimic American usage, but then "CEST" would be quite ambiguous (Standard or daylight/summer?).
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on March 11, 2021, 06:28:55 AM
Yes, I know "CET/CEST" is British usage and I should use "CEST/CEDT" to mimic American usage, but then "CEST" would be quite ambiguous (Standard or daylight/summer?).
Well,
C'EST la vie!
Central time zone in the US is either CST or CDT - Central Standard Time or Central Daylight Time.
I love those people who are scheduling a meeting and use EST (Eastern) as a default. Even in July.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 10, 2021, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 06:56:01 PM
Of course, time zones and DST in DOT aren't the only oddities in federal government administration. Energy, not Defense, oversees the nuclear weapons program.
I've always thought NOAA and NWS being part of the Department of Commerce (instead of something like Interior or the EPA) was odd. At one point it was under USDA.
Interior was created primarily to manage federal lands. Weather's impact on agriculture and business are why it fell under USDA then later Commerce.
Both NWS and NOAA's predecessors predate EPA. And if you go back far enough, what is today the NWS was originally under the War Department.
Quote from: GaryV on March 11, 2021, 10:08:03 AM
Central time zone in the US is either CST or CDT - Central Standard Time or Central Daylight Time.
I love those people who are scheduling a meeting and use EST (Eastern) as a default. Even in July.
My wife does direct sales, and the company she sells for is based in Idaho. New catalogs get released in the middle of the night, so, if there's something that's likely to sell out by morning, she gets up in the middle of the night and puts customer orders in. Back when she first started doing that, she'd ask me,
If it says the catalog launches at 2:00 AM Mountain Standard Time, then what time do I need to set my alarm for? During DST, that was a complicated question to answer!
Mrs. wanderer and I goofed up (I'll be judicious in assigning blame) and changed the clocks last weekend. I was too lazy to change them back only to have to change them again in a week, so we've left them be. But we have a lot of clocks, and several of them adjust themselves from a radio signal. So some of our clocks are correct and some are an hour ahead. I of course can't keep straight which is which, so I went around the house and slapped a sticky note reading "FAST" on every clock that is an hour ahead. I'll be glad when this Sunday comes.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on March 11, 2021, 10:50:15 AM
Mrs. wanderer and I goofed up (I'll be judicious in assigning blame) and changed the clocks last weekend.
Sunday morning, I got out of bed 20 minutes early to get on the computer and find out if we were actually running 40 minutes late for church. I thought the change was last week as well.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 06:56:01 PM
Of course, time zones and DST in DOT aren't the only oddities in federal government administration. Energy, not Defense, oversees the nuclear weapons program.
Oddly placed federal agencies, IMHO:
USDA:
Rural Housing Service - should be in HUD
Rural Utilities Service - should be in Energy (actually should be abolished, long since reached its goals)
Food and Nutrition Service AKA SNAP AKA Food Stamps - should be in HHS, its welfare
APHIS - should be in Homeland Security, its agents have been cross-trained together since 9-11
Foreign Agricultural Service - should be in State, its foreign aid
HUD:
Indian half of Office of Public and Indian Housing - should be in Interior
Justice;
Immigration - should be in Homeland Security
So you want Rural Housing to be moved into HUD, but you want Indian Housing to be moved out of HUD and into Interior?
Border security should be should be Homeland Security. But Immigration should stay with Justice - it's a legal issue.
Quote from: GaryV on March 11, 2021, 12:37:54 PM
So you want Rural Housing to be moved into HUD, but you want Indian Housing to be moved out of HUD and into Interior?
Border security should be should be Homeland Security. But Immigration should stay with Justice - it's a legal issue.
Immigration is in DHS: https://www.dhs.gov/topic/citizenship-and-immigration-services
It is partially with State, as consular services abroad - such as visas - are handled by embassies and consulate, and they are under dept. of state.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 11, 2021, 11:11:44 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 06:56:01 PM
Of course, time zones and DST in DOT aren't the only oddities in federal government administration. Energy, not Defense, oversees the nuclear weapons program.
Oddly placed federal agencies, IMHO:
USDA:
Rural Housing Service - should be in HUD
Rural Utilities Service - should be in Energy (actually should be abolished, long since reached its goals)
Food and Nutrition Service AKA SNAP AKA Food Stamps - should be in HHS, its welfare
APHIS - should be in Homeland Security, its agents have been cross-trained together since 9-11
Foreign Agricultural Service - should be in State, its foreign aid
HUD:
Indian half of Office of Public and Indian Housing - should be in Interior
Justice;
Immigration - should be in Homeland Security
Secret Service being Treasury has always been non-obvious to me.
Chris
Cause it's to reduce crashes.
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 11, 2021, 04:35:29 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on March 11, 2021, 11:11:44 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 06:56:01 PM
Of course, time zones and DST in DOT aren't the only oddities in federal government administration. Energy, not Defense, oversees the nuclear weapons program.
Oddly placed federal agencies, IMHO:
USDA:
Rural Housing Service - should be in HUD
Rural Utilities Service - should be in Energy (actually should be abolished, long since reached its goals)
Food and Nutrition Service AKA SNAP AKA Food Stamps - should be in HHS, its welfare
APHIS - should be in Homeland Security, its agents have been cross-trained together since 9-11
Foreign Agricultural Service - should be in State, its foreign aid
HUD:
Indian half of Office of Public and Indian Housing - should be in Interior
Justice;
Immigration - should be in Homeland Security
Secret Service being Treasury has always been non-obvious to me.
Chris
It's because their original mandate was to deal with counterfeiting. They began protecting the President after the McKinley assassination. They were moved to Homeland Security after said department was created.
Secret Service was founded in order to protect against counterfeit currency (still one of their core missions).
The presidential and VIP protective mission only came about when it became apparent that the President would need full-time security, and the USSS was among the few federal agencies that already had sworn officers qualified in firearms (this was before the FBI, ATF, etc).
1995Hoo beat me by a minute...
Quote from: froggie on March 11, 2021, 10:19:35 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 10, 2021, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 06:56:01 PM
Of course, time zones and DST in DOT aren't the only oddities in federal government administration. Energy, not Defense, oversees the nuclear weapons program.
I've always thought NOAA and NWS being part of the Department of Commerce (instead of something like Interior or the EPA) was odd. At one point it was under USDA.
Interior was created primarily to manage federal lands. Weather's impact on agriculture and business are why it fell under USDA then later Commerce.
Both NWS and NOAA's predecessors predate EPA. And if you go back far enough, what is today the NWS was originally under the War Department.
Right, but weather impacts the functions covered by every single government department (weather obviously affects transportation, accurate weather forecasting helps plan better Defense maneuvers, can't go get an Education if you're snowed in, DHS/FEMA responds to natural disasters caused by weather) so it seems strange that of all the potential places it could go we decided its impact on business was the most important.
Interior being limited solely to managing public lands is kind of uniquely American, anyway. Most other countries' Interior departments function more like our DHS.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 11, 2021, 11:11:44 AM
HUD:
Indian half of Office of Public and Indian Housing - should be in Interior
My wife is Indian, which qualified us for a special HUD loan (it wasn't public or tribally-run housing, just a grant that helped with the purchase of a bog-standard suburban house). I don't know if it came from the Office of Public and Indian Housing or not (everything just said HUD or had the tribe's name on it). That would have been really weird if it came out of Interior.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2021, 05:25:48 PM
weather impacts the functions covered by every single government department (weather obviously affects transportation, accurate weather forecasting helps plan better Defense maneuvers, can't go get an Education if you're snowed in, DHS/FEMA responds to natural disasters caused by weather) so it seems strange that of all the potential places it could go we decided its impact on business was the most important.
Or, rather than "we decided its impact on business was the most important", we decided its impact on business was the most
determinant aspect. Its being important could still have landed it in any old agency.
Thinking about it now, I'm actually a little wary of the fact that NOAA is under Commerce. It calls to mind the casino manager I worked for who forbade tornado coverage being shown on TVs inside the casino because he didn't want people to see the weather was dangerous and go home, causing the business to make less money.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2021, 06:02:59 PM
Thinking about it now, I'm actually a little wary of the fact that NOAA is under Commerce. It calls to mind the casino manager I worked for who forbade tornado coverage being shown on TVs inside the casino because he didn't want people to see the weather was dangerous and go home, causing the business to make less money.
"Newcastle casino it is on top of you right now" Mike Morgan 5/20/2013
I sincerely hope that did make it onto the casino televisions.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on March 11, 2021, 04:41:41 PM
1995Hoo beat me by a minute...
More like seven seconds! Wow! :-D
Glad I don't live in Arizona
Quote from: I-55 on March 11, 2021, 07:24:22 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2021, 06:02:59 PM
Thinking about it now, I'm actually a little wary of the fact that NOAA is under Commerce. It calls to mind the casino manager I worked for who forbade tornado coverage being shown on TVs inside the casino because he didn't want people to see the weather was dangerous and go home, causing the business to make less money.
"Newcastle casino it is on top of you right now" Mike Morgan 5/20/2013
I sincerely hope that did make it onto the casino televisions.
Newcastle Casino has a ton of
other management problems, but that is not one of them, fortunately. (Although they did completely forget to notify off-track betting of a tornado evac once and left them to figure out what to do themselves...)