Shoutout Rochester NY (although the beltway is gone now.)
Lexington, KY
Are we defining beltway as needing to be limited access? Otherwise I might nominate Enterprise, AL.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 10, 2021, 04:47:20 PM
Are we defining beltway as needing to be limited access? Otherwise I might nominate Enterprise, AL.
Chris
Not necessary, could be any beltway.
Depending on what you construe as a beltway, I nominate Durham, North Carolina, because the Downtown Loop is both unnecessary and a nuisance.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 10, 2021, 04:42:48 PM
Shoutout Rochester NY (although the beltway is gone now.)
Two things:
(1) At only about 3 miles in length, the Inner Loop was a little small to be consider a "beltway" in the traditional sense. I/NY 390 and I/NY 590 are closer to what I would consider an actual beltway, but it's incomplete.
(2) Rochester is absolute deserving of a beltway. I'd love to see a "roof" on our current partial beltway, either via NY 104 or something closer to the lakeshore.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 10, 2021, 04:51:11 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 10, 2021, 04:47:20 PM
Are we defining beltway as needing to be limited access? Otherwise I might nominate Enterprise, AL.
Chris
Not necessary, could be any beltway.
Is this the only setup where the bypass route is a bypass of the bypass? :)
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 10, 2021, 04:54:02 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 10, 2021, 04:51:11 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 10, 2021, 04:47:20 PM
Are we defining beltway as needing to be limited access? Otherwise I might nominate Enterprise, AL.
Chris
Not necessary, could be any beltway.
Is this the only setup where the bypass route is a bypass of the bypass? :)
I know zero about the history, but I'm assuming US84 used to follow Main Street?
Chris
Not a city, and not in the US, but a single beltway number for a route that encircles a body of water and is concurrent with other routes most of the way (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G92_Hangzhou_Bay_Ring_Expressway) is not needed.
Is Grand Boulevard in Corona the only example of a circular road around a community in California?
Not sure if "need" or "unneeded" are the terms to describe that though, and the city itself got its name from having a circular road at all! (it was used also for auto racing in the 1910s)
In terms of enclosed beltways (as opposed to say, a long loop route like I-405), I-280/I-680 basically operates more as two north-south corridors anyway than one unified belt route, and the surface street belt of Capitol Avenue/Capitol Expressway/Hillsdale Avenue/San Tomas Expressway/Montague Expressway around San Jose is a pretty major route.
Quote from: webny99 on March 10, 2021, 04:53:23 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 10, 2021, 04:42:48 PM
Shoutout Rochester NY (although the beltway is gone now.)
Two things:
(1) At only about 3 miles in length, the Inner Loop was a little small to be consider a "beltway" in the traditional sense. I/NY 390 and I/NY 590 are closer to what I would consider an actual beltway, but it's incomplete.
(2) Rochester is absolute deserving of a beltway. I'd love to see a "roof" on our current partial beltway, either via NY 104 or something closer to the lakeshore.
Eesh. That "roof" would either destroy decent communities or the shoreline itself.
I grew up in Green Bay. It doesn't NEED a beltway, though I-41, I-43, and WI 172 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.4932457,-88.0218583,11.77z?hl=en) constitute one. I appreciate it every time I visit my family who still live there and it clears out the traffic nicely after every Packers game.
I recommend this parking strategy to anyone heading towards Milwaukee after a game at Lambeau. Park free just north of the stadium east of Oneida St; you can usually find an empty street spot on the first block of Raleigh or Liberty. After the game, return via the following: North on Oneida to end, east one block on Dousman, north on Gray St to the end, east one short block on Velp, north on Atkinson to SB I-43 ramp. Oneida is mostly used by locals and they all turn at Mason, so the rest of the "shortcut" is practically devoid of traffic until the I-43/WI 172 merge. It beats the crap of dealing with all the idiots cramming the local streets to get to WI 172 or I-41. I've never used it for a night game, but it works great for the early afternoon starts.
Quote from: Rothman on March 10, 2021, 05:28:36 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 10, 2021, 04:53:23 PM
Rochester is absolute deserving of a beltway. I'd love to see a "roof" on our current partial beltway, either via NY 104 or something closer to the lakeshore.
Eesh. That "roof" would either destroy decent communities or the shoreline itself.
Yes, it is fantasy... although I look at what's being done to US 281 north of San Antonio and it's not totally outrageous to think NY 104 could be upgraded to a freeway. It would never happen in the current climate though.
Quote from: webny99 on March 10, 2021, 05:51:30 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 10, 2021, 05:28:36 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 10, 2021, 04:53:23 PM
Rochester is absolute deserving of a beltway. I'd love to see a "roof" on our current partial beltway, either via NY 104 or something closer to the lakeshore.
Eesh. That "roof" would either destroy decent communities or the shoreline itself.
Yes, it is fantasy... although I look at what's being done to US 281 north of San Antonio and it's not totally outrageous to think NY 104 could be upgraded to a freeway. It would never happen in the current climate though.
Charlotte would go nuts.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 10, 2021, 04:46:35 PM
Lexington, KY
Construction on New Circle Road started before the conceptualization of the interstate system, to serve as a bypass for US 25 and US 60.
What about St. Charles, MO?
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 10, 2021, 08:02:02 PM
What about St. Charles, MO?
I don't think 370 is really a beltway per se. It's a connector between 70 and 270 to allow commercial traffic and personal vehicles to shave off some time going from X to Y without passing through STL.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 10, 2021, 04:42:48 PM
Shoutout Rochester NY (although the beltway is gone now.)
I presume you mean the Inner Loop? As mentioned, that's not really a beltway. A beltway would be more like 590/390/104, were it finished; NY 104 between NY 390 and the river isn't a freeway. It was planned to be, but alas, the current climate in NY is
very freeway hostile.
Quote from: STLmapboy on March 10, 2021, 08:04:36 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 10, 2021, 08:02:02 PM
What about St. Charles, MO?
I don't think 370 is really a beltway per se. It's a connector between 70 and 270 to allow commercial traffic and personal vehicles to shave off some time going from X to Y without passing through STL.
While it isn't much quicker when traffic is flowing on I-70, MO 370 is a much more pleasant drive than I-70 and should have tied into MO 79 (though the Salt River Road extension now kind of fills this role as an arterial). It has been very nice to have as an alternative to the Blanchette and the previously overloaded ramp from NB I-270 to WB I-70 in the years prior to the opening of MO 364 and the freeway upgrades to US 40 in St. Charles County.
Fort Wayne Indiana I-469
SM-G950U
Quote from: ibthebigd on March 11, 2021, 08:22:44 AM
Fort Wayne Indiana I-469
It may not be needed for Fort Wayne itself, but the southern 2/3 are needed for Indy-Toledo and Indy-Detroit traffic.
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 10, 2021, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 10, 2021, 04:54:02 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 10, 2021, 04:51:11 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 10, 2021, 04:47:20 PM
Are we defining beltway as needing to be limited access? Otherwise I might nominate Enterprise, AL.
Chris
Not necessary, could be any beltway.
Is this the only setup where the bypass route is a bypass of the bypass? :)
I know zero about the history, but I'm assuming US84 used to follow Main Street?
Chris
It appears that the NE quadrant of the US 84 bypass of Main Street occurred between 1957-62. The rest of the US 84 bypass wasn't completed until 1990-91.
But the big attraction downtown is the Boll Weevil Monument:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4760/40245068642_a6f831ed8b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24jjuMQ)
So this isn't a full beltway but my small hometown of Bremen got a US 6 bypass in the 1980s. The governor of Indiana from 1973-81 was from Bremen so he made sure we got the bypass even though there were three larger towns on US 6 that did not.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2021, 06:54:30 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 10, 2021, 04:46:35 PM
Lexington, KY
Construction on New Circle Road started before the conceptualization of the interstate system, to serve as a bypass for US 25 and US 60.
Which explains why it inconveniently (and annoyingly) doesn't directly link up with any interstates or parkways. To get to - or leave - Lexington, you have to approach on a surface street of some form (sitting through at least some traffic lights at intersections) before you can reach the circle road, let alone downtown. Although there may be others, I can't think of another city this size that has such a dysfunctional arrangement.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 10, 2021, 04:52:56 PM
Depending on what you construe as a beltway, I nominate Durham, North Carolina, because the Downtown Loop is both unnecessary and a nuisance.
Hey, I grew up in Durham! I agree it's unnecessary, but what makes you say it's a nuisance?
But also, I say a loop around part of the core of downtown definitely doesn't qualify as a beltway. The actual beltway - 15-501 and 85 - is pretty definitely necessary. Soon, you'll be able to add in the East End Connector, 147, and 40 to say there's a full beltway.
Does Houston need 3??
Quote from: Evan_Th on March 11, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 10, 2021, 04:52:56 PM
Depending on what you construe as a beltway, I nominate Durham, North Carolina, because the Downtown Loop is both unnecessary and a nuisance.
Hey, I grew up in Durham! I agree it's unnecessary, but what makes you say it's a nuisance?
....
The combination of it being one-way combined with North Carolina's idiotic prohibition on left turns on red always made it a pain to navigate that area.
Quote from: webny99 on March 11, 2021, 08:31:51 AM
Quote from: ibthebigd on March 11, 2021, 08:22:44 AM
Fort Wayne Indiana I-469
It may not be needed for Fort Wayne itself, but the southern 2/3 are needed for Indy-Toledo and Indy-Detroit traffic.
The north part of I-469 is very necessary. I used US 30 to shunpike the tollways between Chicago and Pennsylvania back in 1987 on a short vacation after I graduated college. US 30 was a very pleasant drive back then except for the hour it took to drive around Fort Wayne on the old US 30 (now IN 930) around the city. It was obvious that heavy traffic on this road was the norm. I wish I-469 had been built then.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
I mean it's the 4th largest city in America
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
I mean it's the 4th largest city in America
How many does the largest city in the US have?
Comparing a coastal city to an inland city, though?
Also, how many does the largest city in the US need? is a better question.
For NYC, there's I-287 on the west and north. I-278 is a partial beltway for Manhattan, but goes through downtown Brooklyn. So is that 1 or 2 beltways? For Chicago, I just say there's 2 (partial) beltways: I-294 and I-355.
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 04:49:04 PM
Comparing a coastal city to an inland city, though?
Also, how many does the largest city in the US need? is a better question.
Houston's not necessarily an inland city. They're having trouble figuring out a route for the Grand Parkway thru SE Houston because Trinity Bay is in the way. As for my own submissions to the thread, I nominate Crockett and Carthage, both cities in east Texas.
West Pasco, WA
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
I mean it's the 4th largest city in America
LA is the 2nd largest and does it have any? There's bypasses, though they're often just as congested as the route they were built to relieve....like the 405
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
I mean it's the 4th largest city in America
LA is the 2nd largest and does it have any? There's bypasses, though they're often just as congested as the route they were built to relieve....like the 405
LA's geography prevents a beltway.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 10:10:18 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
I mean it's the 4th largest city in America
LA is the 2nd largest and does it have any? There's bypasses, though they're often just as congested as the route they were built to relieve....like the 405
LA's geography prevents a beltway.
So does Boston, but it has two complete ones and most of a third (just missing the segment from Leominster MA to Manchester NH).
I don't know of any city that has a beltway that doesn't need one. Almost all of them are needed.
Quote from: 1 on March 12, 2021, 06:39:19 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 11, 2021, 10:10:18 PM
LA's geography prevents a beltway.
So does Boston, but it has two complete ones and most of a third (just missing the segment from Leominster MA to Manchester NH).
Also the gap at the end of MA 25 near Bourne, where you have to do a quick jog on the at-grade section of US 6.
With that said, LA is a different situation because it's the mountains, not the ocean, that prevents a beltway.
Huntingdon, TN
Martin, TN
Union City, TN
Martin didn't need the additional bypass at all to the east.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on March 12, 2021, 08:33:21 AM
Martin, TN
...
Martin didn't need the additional bypass at all to the east.
That's a really interesting one. TN 43/Skyhawk Pkwy is already a good bypass option for US 45E, and the TN 22 part of the bypass makes sense; I'd say the only segment that's really not needed is on the south side
between US 45E and TN 22.
Quote from: webny99 on March 12, 2021, 10:21:35 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on March 12, 2021, 08:33:21 AM
Martin, TN
...
Martin didn't need the additional bypass at all to the east.
That's a really interesting one. TN 43/Skyhawk Pkwy is already a good bypass option for US 45E, and the TN 22 part of the bypass makes sense; I'd say the only segment that's really not needed is on the south side between US 45E and TN 22.
It was all a pork project and it was done when Governor Ned Ray McWhorter was in office. He wanted to have 4 lanes of highway from around that area to Nashville just for him.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
Not currently, but from what I understand, the outermost of the three (or four, if you count the downtown loop), was built with significant future growth in mind.
Quote from: thspfc on March 12, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
Not currently, but from what I understand, the outermost of the three (or four, if you count the downtown loop), was built with significant future growth in mind.
Since sections of the Grand Parkway have opened, has there been significant growth around it??
How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 12, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.
I haven't been on Beltway 8 yet, but from a look on TX's AADT map, an AADT between 90k-110k in that section is far from 'useless'. I'm not sure if TX's AADT map counts the frontage lanes or not though, but that section had 8 through lanes.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 12, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
Since sections of the Grand Parkway have opened, has there been significant growth around it??
How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.
1. Yes, on certain areas on the SW and NW sections.
2. There aren't as many businesses on the feeder road for Beltway 8 as on other Houston freeways, so it can feel away from the city, especially near Brookside Village, but the traffic on it takes away any idea of it being abandoned. But some sections have had huge growth in the past 10 years:
Beltway 8 @ US 90 Alt circa 2011 (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6264347,-95.5181552,3a,75y,242.63h,84.96t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sExvCxwPI6EDEKifgWHgRAg!2e0!5s20110501T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
Same interchange in 2019 (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6263981,-95.5181538,3a,75y,247.76h,86.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1scNV0EdIxqM_V-uLoPFSWLw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DcNV0EdIxqM_V-uLoPFSWLw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D336.45325%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)
Quote from: skluth on March 10, 2021, 05:41:21 PM
I grew up in Green Bay. It doesn't NEED a beltway, though I-41, I-43, and WI 172 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.4932457,-88.0218583,11.77z?hl=en) constitute one. I appreciate it every time I visit my family who still live there and it clears out the traffic nicely after every Packers game.
I recommend this parking strategy to anyone heading towards Milwaukee after a game at Lambeau. Park free just north of the stadium east of Oneida St; you can usually find an empty street spot on the first block of Raleigh or Liberty. After the game, return via the following: North on Oneida to end, east one block on Dousman, north on Gray St to the end, east one short block on Velp, north on Atkinson to SB I-43 ramp. Oneida is mostly used by locals and they all turn at Mason, so the rest of the "shortcut" is practically devoid of traffic until the I-43/WI 172 merge. It beats the crap of dealing with all the idiots cramming the local streets to get to WI 172 or I-41. I've never used it for a night game, but it works great for the early afternoon starts.
**SHHHHHHH!!!**
:-o
Anyways, IMHO, the best thing that can be done to really speed up the clearing out of traffic after a Packer game is the six-lane upgrade to I-41 (Scheuring Rd to WI 15), planned for construction in the 2025-2029 time frame.
As for the question of the OP, Burlington, WI.
Mike
Highstown, New Jersey has a freeway bypass for some reason.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 12, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 12, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
Not currently, but from what I understand, the outermost of the three (or four, if you count the downtown loop), was built with significant future growth in mind.
Since sections of the Grand Parkway have opened, has there been significant growth around it??
How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.
Like coreysamson said, the sw and nw portions have. There's a lot of development on grand parkway between 249 and 45, and I'm seeing a lot of stuff pop up between hardy toll road and IH 69.
This weekend when I had to drive to Louisiana it looked like there was a good amount of development popping up on the east side where they are building the stretch from IH 69 to IH 10
As for the beltway there is a lot of traffic on pretty much every stretch and like coreysamson mentioned, a lot of spots aren't necessarily packed with businesses but are near major streets or lead into neighborhoods where a lot of people live. The only stretches that are not very developed are the south belt between US 90 Alternate and 45; and the northeast quadrant from 59 to 90
Quote from: achilles765 on June 08, 2021, 01:57:28 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 12, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 12, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
Not currently, but from what I understand, the outermost of the three (or four, if you count the downtown loop), was built with significant future growth in mind.
Since sections of the Grand Parkway have opened, has there been significant growth around it??
How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.
Like coreysamson said, the sw and nw portions have. There's a lot of development on grand parkway between 249 and 45, and I'm seeing a lot of stuff pop up between hardy toll road and IH 69.
This weekend when I had to drive to Louisiana it looked like there was a good amount of development popping up on the east side where they are building the stretch from IH 69 to IH 10
As for the beltway there is a lot of traffic on pretty much every stretch and like coreysamson mentioned, a lot of spots aren't necessarily packed with businesses but are near major streets or lead into neighborhoods where a lot of people live. The only stretches that are not very developed are the south belt between US 90 Alternate and 45; and the northeast quadrant from 59 to 90
I need to get back down there. I haven't driven Beltway 8 since they made the NE section limited access, and I'd like to check out the progress of the Grand Parkway.
Oh! And eat some Texas BBQ! :-)
Quote from: OCGuy81 on June 08, 2021, 02:20:19 PM
Quote from: achilles765 on June 08, 2021, 01:57:28 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 12, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 12, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
Not currently, but from what I understand, the outermost of the three (or four, if you count the downtown loop), was built with significant future growth in mind.
Since sections of the Grand Parkway have opened, has there been significant growth around it??
How about Beltway 8? It's been a decade since I've driven on Beltway 8, but I remember the southern section from US 59 until I-45 being pretty sparse.
Like coreysamson said, the sw and nw portions have. There's a lot of development on grand parkway between 249 and 45, and I'm seeing a lot of stuff pop up between hardy toll road and IH 69.
This weekend when I had to drive to Louisiana it looked like there was a good amount of development popping up on the east side where they are building the stretch from IH 69 to IH 10
As for the beltway there is a lot of traffic on pretty much every stretch and like coreysamson mentioned, a lot of spots aren't necessarily packed with businesses but are near major streets or lead into neighborhoods where a lot of people live. The only stretches that are not very developed are the south belt between US 90 Alternate and 45; and the northeast quadrant from 59 to 90
I need to get back down there. I haven't driven Beltway 8 since they made the NE section limited access, and I'd like to check out the progress of the Grand Parkway.
Oh! And eat some Texas BBQ! :-)
Grand parkway looks great from Sugar Land all the way to Kingwood. Its four to sis lanes from IH 69 to IH 69. Full, five level stacks with IH 10, US 290, frontage road connections at SH 249, but they're building direct connectors, a partial stack with IH 45 and another with Hardy, then a partial at IH 69. They seem to be making progress with the section from IH 69 to IH 10 in Baytown.
Beltway 8 has had some work done, like widening the south belt to six lanes and they're building direct connectors at SH 225. The Northeast section is nice, but boring. No interesting exits, and not a lot of development out there. The west and North belts remain the busiest and most developed segments.
WI-36 Burlington WI. Really almost all the traffic that goes down WI-36 from the Milwaukee area either Waterford or Burlington is it's destination. If they are going to Lake Geneva they take I-43 to WI-120.
US-18 Waukesha WI. Again long distance traffic leaving Milwaukee heading west takes I-94 not US-18.
Not a full beltway, but I think Knoxville I-640 is unnecessary.
Quote from: Skye on August 15, 2021, 08:00:40 PM
Not a full beltway, but I think Knoxville I-640 is unnecessary.
I-40 through downtown Knoxville already sucks with it. Imagine all the traffic that will be using it without I-640, especially the I-75 traffic.
Quote from: Skye on August 15, 2021, 08:00:40 PM
Not a full beltway, but I think Knoxville I-640 is unnecessary.
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 15, 2021, 08:04:35 PM
I-40 through downtown Knoxville already sucks with it. Imagine all the traffic that will be using it without I-640, especially the I-75 traffic.
The main reason for I-640 and the rerouting of I-75 along its northwest section is the legendary Malfunction Junction and its gridlock. Sometimes it would take 3 or 4 hours to get through Knoxville even when there were no accidents.
Amazingly, I've clinched all of these but never driven the entire loop at one time (always used the northwest section to stay on I-75 and sometimes use the northeast section to bypass Knoxville on the way to Lexington. Most of the time, I use the northeast section to find less crowded restaurants when heading for games at Neyland Stadium.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 11, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Does Houston need 3??
Being that it is the 4th largest city in the country, I could see it.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 07, 2021, 10:35:36 AM
WI-36 Burlington WI. Really almost all the traffic that goes down WI-36 from the Milwaukee area either Waterford or Burlington is it's destination. If they are going to Lake Geneva they take I-43 to WI-120.
US-18 Waukesha WI. Again long distance traffic leaving Milwaukee heading west takes I-94 not US-18.
The US 18 bypass of Waukesha isn't meant as a bypass for long distance traffic from Milwaukee to Madison. Nobody is taking 18 as an alternative to I-94. I've done it before as an alternative to I-94 once or twice just for something different, but it is so much slower. the bypass is meant as a way to get from the south and west side of Waukesha to I-94 more efficiently and to take traffic off local streets. I'd say it serves its purpose well. My brother lives on the south side of Waukesha and it has reduced the time to get to I-94 by about half from using the old Merrill Hills Rd.
Huntingdon, TN is much too small to need a beltway, but it has one that goes all the way around. Martin, TN also has no need for a full beltway.
For the city with the most useless beltway, I nominate Paris! (TX)
Also, with regard to the Huston issue, Huston is a massive example of "induced demand" . That is, "if you build it, they will come." Was the second beltway around Huston needed? Maybe. The area was already somewhat developed, and 610 was struggling. Was the 3rd beltway needed? From what I can tell, no. The reason it seems to have been built is that they were anticipating sprawl. But... the sprawl that will develop is almost certainly because of the 3rd beltway! See the issue? That anticipate growth, so they build a new road... which causes growth to be more desirable, causing more sprawl, necessitating another new beltway!
There are problems with not having a beltway in an attempt to prevent sprawl (see: Tucson, AZ), but I'll step of my soapbox for now.
Being as I am not local, maybe I got some details wrong, but from an outsider perspective, this seems to be what is happening.
Quote from: MCRoads on August 18, 2021, 10:42:59 PM
For the city with the most useless beltway, I nominate Paris! (TX)
Also, with regard to the Huston issue, Huston is a massive example of "induced demand" . That is, "if you build it, they will come." Was the second beltway around Huston needed? Maybe. The area was already somewhat developed, and 610 was struggling. Was the 3rd beltway needed? From what I can tell, no. The reason it seems to have been built is that they were anticipating sprawl. But... the sprawl that will develop is almost certainly because of the 3rd beltway! See the issue? That anticipate growth, so they build a new road... which causes growth to be more desirable, causing more sprawl, necessitating another new beltway!
There are problems with not having a beltway in an attempt to prevent sprawl (see: Tucson, AZ), but I'll step of my soapbox for now.
Being as I am not local, maybe I got some details wrong, but from an outsider perspective, this seems to be what is happening.
You're not incorrect either. The original selling point was that it would serve as a way for people to bypass the city altogether... since traffic and congestion and all that begin pretty much at the spot where the grand parkway was originally touted...Katy. The Katy portion was already heavily built up--Katy became a major suburb. So did Sugar Land to the southwest.
The segment from IH 10 in Katy to Spring is built through mostly rural fields, until it gets to around FM 2920... that area was growing a lot when I first moved to Houston in 2007... I never would have imagined how much different it would end up looking. And that was largely due to the parkway. Now the other segments are basically pointless. No one is using the Grand Parkway as a bypass because its too long. Its mostly helpful for locals in that it is a much quicker connection between major suburbs. It used to take close to 2 hours to get from Sugar Land to The Woodlands and it involved using IH 69, then going through downtown--or getting stuck on the always congested 610 loop. The beltway is also congested around Memorial City and near the airport. Now, one can make the trip in about 35 minutes. But I dont see any long distance travelers choosing the parkway.
Instead, there's been a rush on building subdivisions and chain businesses in places. I figure that we shall see another beltway in my lifetime to connect Conroe, Fulshear, Lake Jackson, Winnie, Texas City, and Victoria lol
Quote from: Dirt Roads on August 15, 2021, 08:25:39 PM
Quote from: Skye on August 15, 2021, 08:00:40 PM
Not a full beltway, but I think Knoxville I-640 is unnecessary.
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 15, 2021, 08:04:35 PM
I-40 through downtown Knoxville already sucks with it. Imagine all the traffic that will be using it without I-640, especially the I-75 traffic.
The main reason for I-640 and the rerouting of I-75 along its northwest section is the legendary Malfunction Junction and its gridlock. Sometimes it would take 3 or 4 hours to get through Knoxville even when there were no accidents.
Amazingly, I've clinched all of these but never driven the entire loop at one time (always used the northwest section to stay on I-75 and sometimes use the northeast section to bypass Knoxville on the way to Lexington. Most of the time, I use the northeast section to find less crowded restaurants when heading for games at Neyland Stadium.
I've never been on all of I-640 in one sitting either. Used the concurrent section with I-75 for, well, I-75, and the section not part of I-75 as part of the way home from the Smokies.
Although not a freeway, I would nominate the SC 118 - SC 302 loop around Aiken, South Carolina.