I was looking at my former hometowns of St Louis and Columbus, specifically both of their I-270, on GSV for a bit and saw that there's like 5 different font sizes used for the numbers on 3di signage. Is there a specific name for each font size I found?
1) What I call the 'tall, skinny font'. Probably my least favorite of the bunch because it's hard to read when driving at a high speed:
(https://i.imgur.com/my5p4kh.png)
2) Similar height to the first one with a wider font. I'm not a big fan of this one either for the lack of space between each digit:
(https://i.imgur.com/r5pEUQI.png)
3) Slightly shorter and more spaced out numbers than the second example. The sign on the left is my favorite 3di shield of the examples I'm posting here
(https://i.imgur.com/oqIzz3r.png)
4) A wider font compared to the above examples. I think this one is too wide compared to its height, but otherwise, it's ok:
(https://i.imgur.com/rG7BZBV.png)
5) The default size Ohio is using nowadays, and the most common in the state. My second favorite choice of the five examples here after the left one in the third example:
(https://i.imgur.com/S8OdVKY.png)
Can't tell you the font sizes, but I know that the first sign has Series B numbers, while the others have Series C (the standard font for 3dis and 3dus).
1) B
2) C
3) C
4) D
5) C
#5 is closest to the federal spec (though the word INTERSTATE is supposed to be wider).
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 01:57:19 PM
#5 is closest to the federal spec (though the word INTERSTATE is supposed to be wider).
Is my favorite of the five.
Quote from: kphoger on March 12, 2021, 02:00:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 01:57:19 PM
#5 is closest to the federal spec (though the word INTERSTATE is supposed to be wider).
Is my favorite of the five.
I would also have to agree. I definitely don't like the idea of making the "Interstate" wider though. I've seen some of those and I just don't like the look of them.
Anything reasonable, except for Series B, looks acceptable to me in 3DI shields.
4 is actually my personal favorite (and, as mentioned, is Series D), though 5 is the MUTCD standard font for 3di signs. I'm not sure why the MUTCD doesn't use 4, which matches the standard for 2di signs, and which was used for NY prior to MUTCD adoption. I also don't get why most states stretch the numbers to such a large size. IMO doing so is very ugly.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 01:57:19 PM
#5 is closest to the federal spec (though the word INTERSTATE is supposed to be wider).
Wider to the level of this example I found for I-270 in MD? For me, I don't really like it that wide; looks out of place with the size of the digits below it.
(https://i.imgur.com/dSkOaAp.png)
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 12, 2021, 10:54:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 01:57:19 PM
#5 is closest to the federal spec (though the word INTERSTATE is supposed to be wider).
Wider to the level of this example I found for I-270 in MD? For me, I don't really like it that wide; looks out of place with the size of the digits below it.
(https://i.imgur.com/dSkOaAp.png)
yep, that's it. if i'm not mistaken, it's a more recent change to the spec - and i am certainly not a fan.
For 3di shields that do not feature 1(s) in the numeral; my preference is #3 left sign w/Series C.
Such is a good compromise between being too tall (making the numerals more crowded) or too short (making such less readable at a distance & at highway speeds). IMHO, Series D at a similar height should be used for route numbers containing 1(s) in them.
As far as the INTERSTATE lettering above is concerned; I'm not a fan of the newer wider variant for 3di shields.
IMHO, Series B numerals should not be used at all for 3-digit route numbers.
Just to give a overview of how the signs would look next to one another (although without the digits jammed together)
(https://i.imgur.com/361S8Jj.png)
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 13, 2021, 03:35:24 PM
Just to give a overview of how the signs would look next to one another (although without the digits jammed together)
(https://i.imgur.com/361S8Jj.png)
The
INTERSTATE lettering on the far-right graphic is Series D; the new federal standard uses Series E per the pic in odditude's post. Personally, if a wider font
had to be used for 3di shields; Series D would be the way to go.
Quote from: PHLBOS on March 13, 2021, 03:52:12 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 13, 2021, 03:35:24 PM
Just to give a overview of how the signs would look next to one another (although without the digits jammed together)
(https://i.imgur.com/361S8Jj.png)
The INTERSTATE lettering on the far-right graphic is Series D; the new federal standard uses Series E per the pic in odditude's post. Personally, if a wider font had to be used for 3di shields; Series D would be the way to go.
That's what I had at first, but I changed it since I thought it looked ridiculous. With that correction, though, voilà :
(https://i.imgur.com/MKUxo9Y.png)
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 13, 2021, 03:35:24 PM
Just to give a overview of how the signs would look next to one another (although without the digits jammed together)
(https://i.imgur.com/361S8Jj.png)
Series D would've made so much more sense than Series E there. That one on the right looks perfect IMHO. Thanks FHWA.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 13, 2021, 03:35:24 PM
Just to give a overview of how the signs would look next to one another (although without the digits jammed together)
(https://i.imgur.com/361S8Jj.png)
Both of the last two seem to have series D digits. Did you mean to have one of them with smaller series C digits, like my example #5? Or is the only difference you intentionally made is with the 'INTERSTATE' size?
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 13, 2021, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on March 13, 2021, 03:35:24 PM
Just to give a overview of how the signs would look next to one another (although without the digits jammed together)
(https://i.imgur.com/361S8Jj.png)
Both of the last two seem to have series D digits. Did you mean to have one of them with smaller series C digits, like my example #5? Or is the only difference you intentionally made is with the 'INTERSTATE' size?
The last one, the "INTERSTATE" is in D.
I've always thought Series B is kinda creepy for some reason :crazy:.
Quote from: PHLBOS on March 13, 2021, 02:49:18 PM
IMHO, Series D at a similar height should be used for route numbers containing 1(s) in them.
Here's I-170 with what looks like Series D on the left and Series C on the right
(https://i.imgur.com/bJxPJl0.png)
Here's I-271 with Series C size similar to what is in #5 of the op
(https://i.imgur.com/KfgQRRM.png)
And yes, Series B does exist even for 3di with a 1. Interesting thing with ODOT: their older 3di signage was in what looks like Series D, then they added in Series B along with D for a bit before using Series C as they do today.
(https://i.imgur.com/CZ79Gnm.png)
Quote from: odditude on March 13, 2021, 02:37:49 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 12, 2021, 10:54:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 01:57:19 PM
#5 is closest to the federal spec (though the word INTERSTATE is supposed to be wider).
Wider to the level of this example I found for I-270 in MD? For me, I don't really like it that wide; looks out of place with the size of the digits below it.
(https://i.imgur.com/dSkOaAp.png)
yep, that's it. if i'm not mistaken, it's a more recent change to the spec - and i am certainly not a fan.
That is indeed the federal spec, as of 2003.
The reason why E is used instead of D or C (which is used on 2dis and used to be the federal 3di spec for the crown) is because E is the most legible of the series when the same letter height is used. (Not surprisingly, legibility decreases from there as the letterforms are condensed. I am not sure where F falls on the spectrum, other than that it is less than E.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 15, 2021, 10:09:07 PM
Quote from: odditude on March 13, 2021, 02:37:49 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 12, 2021, 10:54:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 01:57:19 PM
#5 is closest to the federal spec (though the word INTERSTATE is supposed to be wider).
Wider to the level of this example I found for I-270 in MD? For me, I don't really like it that wide; looks out of place with the size of the digits below it.
(https://i.imgur.com/dSkOaAp.png)
yep, that's it. if i'm not mistaken, it's a more recent change to the spec - and i am certainly not a fan.
That is indeed the federal spec, as of 2003.
The reason why E is used instead of D or C (which is used on 2dis and used to be the federal 3di spec for the crown) is because E is the most legible of the series when the same letter height is used. (Not surprisingly, legibility decreases from there as the letterforms are condensed. I am not sure where F falls on the spectrum, other than that it is less than E.)
At the same time though, we're talking about the word "Interstate" on the blue and red shield. I don't think there's any confusion as to what it says there. It's completely subjective, but I do not like Series E used there.
If it's more legible and the letters don't encroach on the white lines, then I see no reason to diss it.
Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 04:48:47 PM
If it's more legible and the letters don't encroach on the white lines, then I see no reason to diss it.
That's clearly the conclusion of AASHTO or the FHWA, or whoever it was that made that decision, but the use of E in the 3DI shield is too noticeably different to be a good idea, in my opinion. I wouldn't though be against changing both the 2DI and 3DI shields to use D:
(https://i.imgur.com/DJ0LQCT.png)
Whatever the type is for the 'INTERSTATE' font is on the Wikimedia shields (think it's series D?), it looks like the perfect size to me. Looks like it on all my examples in the op too.
(https://i.imgur.com/Kx8lt7W.png)
That would be Series C for both of those shields' "Interstate". The 2DI uses Series D for the numerals. The 3DI uses Series C.
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 16, 2021, 06:19:04 PM
Whatever the type is for the 'INTERSTATE' font is on the Wikimedia shields (think it's series D?), it looks like the perfect size to me.
(https://i.imgur.com/Kx8lt7W.png)
It's C.
Found a new BGS installation on I-271/I-480 in Cleveland (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3993758,-81.5079363,3a,43.1y,2.44h,104.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svRrqLcono-34fT8ifEcnpQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en), with 271 in Series D and 480 in Series C. For some reason, I like the look of this, even though the two 3di shields are side to side in different fonts. Not sure if it's better or worse with 271 also in Series C.
Kind of relevant to this, is there some documentation stating how wide the font should be depending on the speed limit? I vaguely remember reading something like that before but can't find it now.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 01:57:19 PM
1) B
2) C
3) C
4) D
5) C
#5 is closest to the federal spec (though the word INTERSTATE is supposed to be wider).
To expand on Scott's post...
Assuming the shields are 36" tall which is what is typically used on overhead guide signs....
1) 18" Series B
2) 18" Series C
3) 16" Series C <<< Height is a guess. They're definitely shorter than #2 but taller than #4
4) 15" Series D
5) 15" Series C
California, for the most part, uses 15" Series D on all overhead guide sign Interstate shields. The 2-digit shields are your typical 36" x 36" shields but the 3-digit ones are slightly taller at 45" x 38".
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2F2DI-vs-3DI_CA.png&hash=4582faedfea6d2c3cb49dafec648266a5f9ef290)
Quote from: SeriesE on June 24, 2021, 08:27:41 PM
Kind of relevant to this, is there some documentation stating how wide the font should be depending on the speed limit? I vaguely remember reading something like that before but can't find it now.
I don't think so, it's mainly the states' DOT choice I think. Plenty of Series B 3di shields out there on a roadway with a high speed limit.
Been playing with the sign maker site for a bit, and even though I generally prefer Series C over D for 3di, x11 routes (if we get them) look terrible in Series C. Especially I-111.
(https://i.imgur.com/OPRjMPA.png)
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 04, 2021, 08:12:39 PM
Been playing with the sign maker site for a bit, and even though I generally prefer Series C over D for 3di, x11 routes (if we get them) look terrible in Series C. Especially I-111.
(https://i.imgur.com/OPRjMPA.png)
If we ever get I-111, I hereby designate it shall be posted only in Series F. :bigass:
(https://i.imgur.com/xZMaiCc.png)
Looks like my preference in the op (choice 3) just got replaced during a construction project west of the I-44 and I-270 interchange. I still don't like the Series E "INTERSTATE" for 3di shields though.
(https://i.imgur.com/8Ektonu.png)
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 24, 2022, 11:22:40 PM
Looks like my preference in the op (choice 3) just got replaced during a construction project west of the I-44 and I-270 interchange. I still don't like the Series E "INTERSTATE" for 3di shields though.
(https://i.imgur.com/8Ektonu.png)
Definitely funny and unusual of how those are stretched out. Looking at these (https://goo.gl/maps/4X1h8YbcboCTr7oBA), the left sign was installed 2019 and the 264 digits appear to be Series B while the right one has Series D ones which was installed in 2014 or 2015 I think.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 16, 2022, 01:02:20 PM
Definitely funny and unusual of how those are stretched out. Looking at these (https://goo.gl/maps/4X1h8YbcboCTr7oBA), the left sign was installed 2019 and the 264 digits appear to be Series B while the right one has Series D ones which was installed in 2014 or 2015 I think.
I'm confused, what does the stretched out "INTERSTATE" banner have to with US route font sizes?
I actually thought you were going to use an example on I-264 in VA (since that's somewhat close to you) before clicking on the link.
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 16, 2022, 01:02:20 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 24, 2022, 11:22:40 PM
Looks like my preference in the op (choice 3) just got replaced during a construction project west of the I-44 and I-270 interchange. I still don't like the Series E "INTERSTATE" for 3di shields though.
(https://i.imgur.com/8Ektonu.png)
Definitely funny and unusual of how those are stretched out.
This is the most incorrect thing you've ever posted. What you are looking at is literally 100% according to the standards in the book.
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 16, 2022, 01:35:23 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 16, 2022, 01:02:20 PM
Definitely funny and unusual of how those are stretched out. Looking at these (https://goo.gl/maps/4X1h8YbcboCTr7oBA), the left sign was installed 2019 and the 264 digits appear to be Series B while the right one has Series D ones which was installed in 2014 or 2015 I think.
I'm confused, what does the stretched out "INTERSTATE" banner have to with US route font sizes?
I actually thought you were going to use an example on I-264 in VA (since that's somewhat close to you) before clicking on the link.
I thought you were referring to the the highway shield fonts. And no. The first line I posted was to quote that it was funny looking.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 16, 2022, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 16, 2022, 01:02:20 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 24, 2022, 11:22:40 PM
Looks like my preference in the op (choice 3) just got replaced during a construction project west of the I-44 and I-270 interchange. I still don't like the Series E "INTERSTATE" for 3di shields though.
(https://i.imgur.com/8Ektonu.png)
Definitely funny and unusual of how those are stretched out.
This is the most incorrect thing you've ever posted. What you are looking at is literally 100% according to the standards in the book.
But many of the "INTERSTATE" text on the shields are condensed here.
Doesn't mean that actually following the standard is "definitely funny and unusual".
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 04, 2021, 08:12:39 PM
Been playing with the sign maker site for a bit, and even though I generally prefer Series C over D for 3di, x11 routes (if we get them) look terrible in Series C. Especially I-111.
(https://i.imgur.com/OPRjMPA.png)
Would 911 be posted as an emergency corridor?
Quote from: tolbs17 on February 16, 2022, 01:02:20 PM
Definitely funny and unusual of how those are stretched out. Looking at these (https://goo.gl/maps/4X1h8YbcboCTr7oBA), the left sign was installed 2019 and the 264 digits appear to be Series B while the right one has Series D ones which was installed in 2014 or 2015 I think.
The 264 in the left sign is Series C, not Series B.
Having grown up in California, I've always preferred Series D on 3di/3dus.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 06, 2022, 03:24:49 AM
Having grown up in California, I've always preferred Series D on 3di/3dus.
I prefer D as well, but I will accept C if it means the numerals can be taller.
I have a running gag that the font series are named after descriptors:
Series D is delightful
Series E is extra-thick
Series F is fat
Series C is condensed
Series B is barely legible
Series A is asinine.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 06, 2022, 03:24:49 AM
Having grown up in California, I've always preferred Series D on 3di/3dus.
Growing up in OH and MO, both states used to use all three font types (B, C, D), though I recall seeing a bit more Series B in MO and button-copy series D in OH for a while. Now both states use mostly series C (or series D if there's a 1 in the route number, like for I-170 in MO or I-271 in OH) for new sign installations.