While driving along the Borman Expressway in Northwest Indiana last Monday I noticed this blue sign along the highway that announced the travel times to different locations further down the road.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27013823@N03/4643527482/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27013823@N03/4643527482/)
Apologies for posting the image this way, but I'm still trying to figure out how to post the image on this board and reviewing various posts in the past have not helped.
Anyhow, I don't recall having seen this type of sign before anywhere and further research has shown that this will be the first of 40 such signs to be posted along the highways of Northwest Indiana and Indianapolis. Any thoughts on this type of signage and are there other examples elsewhere.
and Extra Large Caps makes an appearance! I wonder which federal specification inadvertently features that, because so many states randomly use it.
That's my first time seeing a sign like that. I always see travel times on electronic signs.
There's a similar sign on US 169 south showing travel times via I-44 west and US 169 south/Creek Turnpike west. It's an orange sign and is related to I-44 construction. I'll have to take a picture of it while it's still up.
Both in Los Angeles and up here in the San Francisco Bay Area, they use the changeable message signs to display travel times. Destinations vary from cities to landmarks (airports, universities) to other highways.
Here's an example on southbound U.S. 101 in Palo Alto just after the Oregon Expwy exit...
http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=37.441128,-122.115033&spn=0,0.004619&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=37.441194,-122.115106&panoid=kNCv5HNkkm_He_BrmXsomQ&cbp=12,151.46,,0,5
Interesting.
Here they just do it with Changeable Message Signs
Why is it blue? :hmmm:
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 26, 2010, 09:13:02 PMand Extra Large Caps makes an appearance! I wonder which federal specification inadvertently features that, because so many states randomly use it.
I think it is basically the result of misinterpreting the letter size tables in the
MUTCD. The size values for uppercase legend are based on the height of a capital letter, while those for lowercase letters are based on the loop height (basically, the height of lowercase
x, or any other letter with ascenders and descenders removed from consideration). But with modern computer fonts like Roadgeek Series E Modified, mixed-case legend is all at the same nominal size because the font comes with uppercase and lowercase letters at their correct proportions in relation to each other.
I am not aware that any recent edition of the
MUTCD has had pattern-accurate illustrations with "Extra Large Uppercase." I think the Millennium
MUTCD (whose illustrations were not pattern-accurate--in fact, it was actually pretty shitty in terms of presentation) might have had illustrations with this particular problem though.
I do blame the 2002
MUTCD for misleading designers into thinking that it was no longer necessary to construct fraction rectangles correctly. I don't think it had
any illustrations with correct fraction rectangles.
I'm not sure why INDOT choose blue other than to make it stand out from other highway signs. As for the message board signs, I too have seen times listed on those type of signs in Ohio, Illinois, Tennessee, and Nevada. I suppose being displayed on its own sign allows for those message board signs to be used for strictly weather, traffic and construction information.
MDOT has similar signs around the Grand Rapids area that show travel times to downtown Grand Rapids using the two main suggested detours while they undertake The Fix on I-196. The signs themselves are orange like other construction signs, but otherwise not to dissimilar from that Indiana example.
Interesting that INDOT chose this style of sign. IDOT usually just uses some older VMSs (and then mostly inbound only), and the ISTHA uses new VMSs that flash between the travel time and a message.
A Dutch travel time sign (it looks like a temporary setup) I just happen to catch today.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4003%2F4644281649_69f7741fcf_o.jpg&hash=11aeb0c8bb88b8e7e56228d5678ff26946658164)
Do you think these are clear or not? It offers travel times for two different routes to the city of Utrecht (about 90 km or 55 miles from here via A28, a little longer via A50/A12).
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 27, 2010, 01:55:19 AM
Why is it blue? :hmmm:
My guess would be that including travel times on the sign classifies it more as a general information/service sign (which are typically blue) as opposed to a guide sign (typically green).
Nevada has been providing travel time information in the Las Vegas area for a few years now, but they use VMS's instead of a dedicated sign. They started on I-15 a few years ago, and started testing it on US 95 earlier this year.
The 2009 MUTCD has a typical example of what it calls a "comparative travel time information sign," shown in Figure 2G-20. The text, so far as I can tell, does not have specific provisions regarding background color, but Figure 2G-20 shows green background and I would expect that to be what is used.
I have seen travel time information signs in a number of signing contracts and I have the sign design sheets, but it is not exactly straightforward to dig out those specific sheets. I did dig up the sheets for a recent WSDOT contract dealing with Lake Washington congestion management and there was no explicit color specification. I assume green was used, but the plan sheets do not say one way or another.
Quote from: roadfro on May 28, 2010, 02:49:53 AM
My guess would be that including travel times on the sign classifies it more as a general information/service sign (which are typically blue) as opposed to a guide sign (typically green).
I'm not sure if this counts as "information" in the usual blue-sign sense. The time required to travel the distance is, in my opinion, a similar bit of knowledge to the distance itself, and therefore the sign should be green.
Quote from: Chris on May 27, 2010, 01:31:06 PM
A Dutch travel time sign (it looks like a temporary setup) I just happen to catch today.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4003%2F4644281649_69f7741fcf_o.jpg&hash=11aeb0c8bb88b8e7e56228d5678ff26946658164)
Do you think these are clear or not? It offers travel times for two different routes to the city of Utrecht (about 90 km or 55 miles from here via A28, a little longer via A50/A12).
I really like this setup.
When I first saw this sign I thought it was showing 66 minutes to the A50/A12 exit and I wondered what the 49 minutes on the left was about. Only when I read the caption below the picture did it make sense.
I've redrawn the sign to make it look simpler. I've added via above each route to show the times are via that route and not to the route. I've also shown the sign as a Y to show the choice of route more clearly even though it's not the correct layout of the road.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedcam.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk%2Futrecht.jpg&hash=1fa0e22a67355843e85f67b991b92be672a83685)
^^
A text VMS might be better in this instance, as we use around Chicago. Here, we'd do the sign as follows:
UTRECHT
VIA A28 49 MIN
VIA A50/A12 66 MIN
It's even simpler, IMHO.
^^ That is what we usually use in the Netherlands: The blue graphical one is more like a temp sign. (as Truvelo noticed, "te huur" means for rent.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4055%2F4638753387_1eeaf6c179_o.jpg&hash=84f6e8ce1a67ed33325de645e3c60c1a5a1639e4)
Some indicate traffic jam length.. The only problem is most foreigners do not know what "file" means (fee-le) (traffic jam)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4068%2F4638753257_b8391bb09c_o.jpg&hash=61a0ca983794beab800d01a566b16ced22eb7f4c)
Here's an example of one from Illinois that is similar to the examples Chris gave from the Netherlands.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=41.647759,-88.013792&spn=0,0.017982&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.647879,-88.013812&panoid=dd0D3eNoRkbSwwlv4haMOA&cbp=12,350.4,,0,7.31
Pretty awesome how the VMSes are even set in FHWA Series. Wish we had those here.
Quote from: myosh_tino on May 27, 2010, 01:34:59 AM
Both in Los Angeles and up here in the San Francisco Bay Area, they use the changeable message signs to display travel times. Destinations vary from cities to landmarks (airports, universities) to other highways.
Here's an example on southbound U.S. 101 in Palo Alto just after the Oregon Expwy exit...
http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=37.441128,-122.115033&spn=0,0.004619&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=37.441194,-122.115106&panoid=kNCv5HNkkm_He_BrmXsomQ&cbp=12,151.46,,0,5
There's a handful of variable message signs in Phoenix, too.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 28, 2010, 05:43:21 PM
Pretty awesome how the VMSes are even set in FHWA Series. Wish we had those here.
They would probably be in Clearview if they had something similar here.
They have it in Atlanta too.
http://www.georgia-navigator.com/signs (http://www.georgia-navigator.com/signs)
raleigh, nc (near I-40, US70 East)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2Felectronicsign.jpg&hash=ed7a2f7c7032cb5b0149a2f926a1805a3ada4170)
Quote from: The Premier on May 28, 2010, 05:52:04 PM
They have it in Atlanta too.
http://www.georgia-navigator.com/signs (http://www.georgia-navigator.com/signs)
We have those here in Birmingham that (finally) display travel times.
That blue one is bad, thats pretty darn sweet. In Texas we just got VMS's.
BigMatt
Maryland is a real late state in travel times..March this year they started using the some VMS for travel time :cool:
http://www.mdot.maryland.gov/News/2010/March2010/SHA-TravelTimes.htm
I seem to remember seeing a couple VMS travel time signs along I-45 going into Houston last week.
But, more importantly, am I the only person who was disappointed after reading the title of this thread that is was about travel time and not time travel?
I've seen a lot of the completely variable signs popping up both around here in the Albany area and down in Naples, Florida. They're usually displaying travel times like others have described here. As for the Indiana one in the original post, it's nice to look at, but a lot less useful than a truly variable sign. Sometimes it would be nice to post other information and that Indiana example can only give travel times to specific points.
Quote from: algorerhythms on May 30, 2010, 11:48:48 PM
I seem to remember seeing a couple VMS travel time signs along I-45 going into Houston last week.
But, more importantly, am I the only person who was disappointed after reading the title of this thread that is was about travel time and not time travel?
I'm sorry for that, my bad. I meant to say Travel Time, not Time Travel. I realized that after I first posted that the name was not correct.
"NO DELOREANS NEXT 16 MILES"
I've also seen AMBER alerts on VMS's in San Antonio...
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 31, 2010, 09:09:42 PM
"NO DELOREANS NEXT 16 MILES"
I was going to say something about a TARDIS, but then I decided not to...
Quote from: BigMatt on June 01, 2010, 12:10:47 AM
I've also seen AMBER alerts on VMS's in San Antonio...
MDOT has been reminding motorists that they need motorcycle endorsements to operate motorcycles.
Around Pittsburgh, the VMS will warn of congestion, but no actual predictions of travel times. (The closest they get is "Delays likely")
Quote from: algorerhythms on May 30, 2010, 11:48:48 PM
But, more importantly, am I the only person who was disappointed after reading the title of this thread that is was about travel time and not time travel?
I don't know what you guys are reading, but thanks to the information contained in this topic, I have now successfully become not only my own grandfather, but also my grandmother, two semi-cousins, and a badger.
These are commonly used around the Seattle area, too, on the Interstates, anyway. I don't believe they do this on SR 520. WADot even posts the Seattle-Area VMS signs on the website: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/traffic/seattle/vms/
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 01, 2010, 12:22:25 PM
I don't know what you guys are reading, but thanks to the information contained in this topic, I have now successfully become not only my own grandfather, but also my grandmother, two semi-cousins, and a badger.
mushroom mushrooooom
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 01, 2010, 12:22:25 PM
Quote from: algorerhythms on May 30, 2010, 11:48:48 PM
But, more importantly, am I the only person who was disappointed after reading the title of this thread that is was about travel time and not time travel?
I don't know what you guys are reading, but thanks to the information contained in this topic, I have now successfully become not only my own grandfather, but also my grandmother, two semi-cousins, and a badger.
"I know where I came from–but where did all you zombies come from?"
I really, really prefer the ones that give a distance as well as a travel time. 18 minutes is awesome if the destination is 20 miles away, but if it's only 2 miles...
Quote from: 6a on July 26, 2010, 06:11:25 PM
I really, really prefer the ones that give a distance as well as a travel time. 18 minutes is awesome if the destination is 20 miles away, but if it's only 2 miles...
It's not as much of a necessity if you live in a state that
faithfully puts up distance/mileage signs to key destinations after each/most exit(s):
COLORADO -- Good :clap:
MICHIGAN -- Bad :pan:
^^^
On I-95 between Jacksonville and the Titusville area, I saw lots of small VMSs. (usually one after each exit) The usually had the route number, distance and time to two of the next exits.
Personally, I like having the distance as I had never been to the area before and was not familiar with the distances.
Quote from: thenetwork on July 26, 2010, 06:42:15 PM
It's not as much of a necessity if you live in a state that faithfully puts up distance/mileage signs to key destinations after each/most exit(s):
COLORADO -- Good :clap:
MICHIGAN -- Bad :pan:
It's the states I don't live in that I'm worried about :)
Quote from: 6a on July 26, 2010, 09:36:55 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 26, 2010, 06:42:15 PM
It's not as much of a necessity if you live in a state that faithfully puts up distance/mileage signs to key destinations after each/most exit(s):
COLORADO -- Good :clap:
MICHIGAN -- Bad :pan:
It's the states I don't live in that I'm worried about :)
oops...I meant if you DRIVE in a state...
I have a couple of questions that maybe someone from Indiana can answer. First, wouldn't these signs be a waste of money in Indianapolis since INDOT has installed many Dynamic Message Signs in the Indianapolis area and could just put travel times on those? Second, I actually saw on the Dynamic Message Sign on I-69 South in Fishers saying "Travel Time to I-465/4 Miles-4 Minutes." I saw this back around the beginning of the year, but no travel times anywhere since. Does this mean that INDOT has the travel time technology in the Indianapolis area and is just waiting to put the travel time signs up?
Quote from: wh15395 on July 26, 2010, 10:33:23 PM
I have a couple of questions that maybe someone from Indiana can answer. First, wouldn't these signs be a waste of money in Indianapolis since INDOT has installed many Dynamic Message Signs in the Indianapolis area and could just put travel times on those? Second, I actually saw on the Dynamic Message Sign on I-69 South in Fishers saying "Travel Time to I-465/4 Miles-4 Minutes." I saw this back around the beginning of the year, but no travel times anywhere since. Does this mean that INDOT has the travel time technology in the Indianapolis area and is just waiting to put the travel time signs up?
Right now INDOT in the Indianapolis doesn't display travel times except in rare cases. The only thing that I've seen like that in Indy is during the I-69 Tanker explosion last October DMSs along I-465 telling the distance to I-70 and I-69 on the east side though I think it was there only to aid motorists who were detoured due to the accident. According to INDOT's plans, these signs are to be installed throughout the Indianapolis area over the next few years. Could the DMSs be put to better use, probably.
I want to say NYSDOT has one on the Northern State Pkwy.
Quote from: tdindy88 on July 27, 2010, 01:06:43 AM
Right now INDOT in the Indianapolis doesn't display travel times except in rare cases. The only thing that I've seen like that in Indy is during the I-69 Tanker explosion last October DMSs along I-465 telling the distance to I-70 and I-69 on the east side though I think it was there only to aid motorists who were detoured due to the accident. According to INDOT's plans, these signs are to be installed throughout the Indianapolis area over the next few years. Could the DMSs be put to better use, probably.
Yeah the I-69 travel time was posted on the sign for a few days, and then they just randomly disappeared.
Quote from: nyratk1 on July 27, 2010, 08:38:56 AM
I want to say NYSDOT has one on the Northern State Pkwy.
There are a couple of them. Here's one. (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=New+York&ll=40.767867,-73.625243&spn=0.007914,0.014462&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.767963,-73.625245&panoid=ggTxbmoUE64IbR3zgiJeFA&cbp=12,40.7,,1,-7.55)
The sign is illegible in Streetview, but it's showing travel times to the Cross Island via the Northern State and via the LIE.
Quote from: nyratk1 on July 27, 2010, 08:38:56 AM
I want to say NYSDOT has one on the Northern State Pkwy.
If you really want to, go ahead and say it! Don't be nervous, we're all friends here! :-D
Quote from: realjd on July 27, 2010, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: nyratk1 on July 27, 2010, 08:38:56 AM
I want to say NYSDOT has one on the Northern State Pkwy.
If you really want to, go ahead and say it! Don't be nervous, we're all friends here! :-D
Even with the people who like Clearview signage?
Years ago (late 60s-early 70s), before I-70 was completed (when you had to jump off at Ohio 29 and ride US 40 all the way downtown to catch the next stretch), West Broad St in Columbus had a series of overhead signs posted that would inform motorists if they kept to the legal speed limit of 30-35, they would have nothing but green lights all the way downtown....
Quote from: ctsignguy on July 29, 2010, 08:28:47 AM
Years ago (late 60s-early 70s), before I-70 was completed (when you had to jump off at Ohio 29 and ride US 40 all the way downtown to catch the next stretch), West Broad St in Columbus had a series of overhead signs posted that would inform motorists if they kept to the legal speed limit of 30-35, they would have nothing but green lights all the way downtown....
I can't say that I saw those in person, but going through the Columbus traffic Engineer reports from the 60s & 70s showed a photo of one of those signs
Quote from: osu-lsu on July 29, 2010, 10:27:16 PM
Quote from: ctsignguy on July 29, 2010, 08:28:47 AM
Years ago (late 60s-early 70s), before I-70 was completed (when you had to jump off at Ohio 29 and ride US 40 all the way downtown to catch the next stretch), West Broad St in Columbus had a series of overhead signs posted that would inform motorists if they kept to the legal speed limit of 30-35, they would have nothing but green lights all the way downtown....
I can't say that I saw those in person, but going through the Columbus traffic Engineer reports from the 60s & 70s showed a photo of one of those signs
They're still on PA 3 entering Philly. But I know for a fact the signals are nowhere near timed anymore.
Quote from: AlpsROADS on July 29, 2010, 10:47:26 PM
Quote from: osu-lsu on July 29, 2010, 10:27:16 PM
Quote from: ctsignguy on July 29, 2010, 08:28:47 AM
Years ago (late 60s-early 70s), before I-70 was completed (when you had to jump off at Ohio 29 and ride US 40 all the way downtown to catch the next stretch), West Broad St in Columbus had a series of overhead signs posted that would inform motorists if they kept to the legal speed limit of 30-35, they would have nothing but green lights all the way downtown....
I can't say that I saw those in person, but going through the Columbus traffic Engineer reports from the 60s & 70s showed a photo of one of those signs
They're still on PA 3 entering Philly. But I know for a fact the signals are nowhere near timed anymore.
I have a photo of one of those signs I took in 2002 or '03.
Just a quick update on the subject from the Hoosier State. The first sign like this has been installed in Indianapolis, on Interstate 465 on the northside between Meridian Street and Keystone Avenue for eastbound travellers, annoucing the distance and time to I-69 and I-70. The sign is not operational yet, but I suppose it will, if nothing else before the Super Bowl next year. The sign is also located in the highway median as opposed to on the side as in the orginial picture, but the sign looks just like that one. Also, I changed the title of this subject just to get rid of any confusion that this subject was about an entirely different matter.
Quote from: RustyK on June 01, 2010, 12:41:58 PM
These are commonly used around the Seattle area, too, on the Interstates, anyway. I don't believe they do this on SR 520. WADot even posts the Seattle-Area VMS signs on the website: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/traffic/seattle/vms/
I've seen that a lot. Personally, it's a pretty neat idea!
Colorado usually uses VMSs to tell us about travel time, but I-25 from Denver to Colorado Springs has new signage that's been active for about 4 months now:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fr-dub.us%2Fpics%2F01a.jpg&hash=3eb0dcd96a8fbd408718d5f2e0b8cec4cc36cd9a)
At first I was pretty impressed with this, until I saw that Indy one...
And CDOT has plenty of toys on their cotrip.org (http://cotrip.org) site--vms information (including the travel time ones), cameras, streaming cameras, and weather stations. It's all under the Devices tab at the top.
It's been a while I know, but I wanted to provide an update on this subject from Indianapolis. More of these signs have been popping up, with me now counting at least four I've seen, and at least another two I haven't. And this morning I saw a news article on WTHR-13 talking about the signs themselves. They aren't supposed to be up and working though until the end of next year.
http://www.wthr.com/story/16351359/new-signs-give-travel-time-estimates
Quote from: tdindy88 on December 19, 2011, 11:37:28 AM
It's been a while I know, but I wanted to provide an update on this subject from Indianapolis. More of these signs have been popping up, with me now counting at least four I've seen, and at least another two I haven't. And this morning I saw a news article on WTHR-13 talking about the signs themselves. They aren't supposed to be up and working though until the end of next year.
http://www.wthr.com/story/16351359/new-signs-give-travel-time-estimates
I saw that too. It's disappointing how long it takes INDOT to do anything. The first sign got installed almost a year ago and none of them will be working until another year from now. And they've been installing the technology for "decades." On top of that, outside of Indianapolis (and at times in the metro area), INDOT fails at most things.
I think that minuets should not be used solely cause everyone drives at different speeds.
How do we know at what speed limit the minuet printing is calculated for? Is it for the posted legal speed limit, or for what the majority travels at? In Virginia I once saw a billboard for McDonalds that was "15 Minuets Ahead" and took over 20 minuets to arrive at doing the posted 55. It was obvious how they calculated that at, but this is private enterprise and not public. With this being stated, I am sure some DOT employee calculates in the real like the marketer for this McDonalds has done someplace out there.
Travel times on VMS signs are based on INRIX data which means it's at the average speed at which traffic is actually currently moving.
If the average is above the speed limit it will take longer to drive the posted limit. And you can beat the time if you drive at above average speed (assuming traffic is open enough to allow that).
Quote from: roadman65 on December 24, 2011, 09:22:37 AM
In Virginia I once saw a billboard for McDonalds that was "15 Minuets Ahead" and took over 20 minuets to arrive at doing the posted 55.
I once saw an ad for a motel that was 110 miles and "1 hour away". now, I can understand fudging the math a little... 85 miles would fly for 1 hour in rural Wyoming or wherever this was, but 110 is really pushing it!
To answer the last post.
That is put up by marketers. I was in marketing once and you have to bend the truth always and make the deal sound as good as it can get! Just remember that $20 piece of merchandise on TV is for $19.99 and why businesses do not include the tax in the price.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 24, 2011, 11:59:02 AM
I once saw an ad for a motel that was 110 miles and "1 hour away". now, I can understand fudging the math a little... 85 miles would fly for 1 hour in rural Wyoming or wherever this was, but 110 is really pushing it!
Maybe the marketer was thinking metric... 110 km is approximately 65-70 miles which makes 1 hour more realistic.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.tinypic.com%2Fqodqmr.jpg&hash=c378ca5a4c32a6d46e1f8c4f1c3fb6b52000bdc3)
I-93 in Massachusetts is introducing them. Right now they're on trailer-mounted VMS's, but the Commonwealth is erecting gantry-mounted VMS's which will eventually take over for the trailers. The system used to determine driving times is supposedly a means of anonymously tracking cell phones. The system latches onto cell-phone signals and tracks (and averages) their travel times, without revealing to anyone the phone numbers or user data. I'm told MassDOT was able to get the cell-phone carriers to let them hook into the signal-tracking-and-cell-handoff equipment so they can follow individual phones even when they switch cells.
Actually, speaking as a MassDOT employee who spent this past Friday in the Highway Operations Center, you're close but not quite correct.
The portable message boards currently used are the permanent solution - they operate on an entirely different system than the overhead VMSes. The overhead VMSes have messages manually programmed, not automatically generated by the intelligent traffic system that feeds the portable ones. So if they were to be integrated in the immediate future it would require an operator to periodically check the travel time data and manually update the signs accordingly (which is done on Route 3 heading towards the Cape as an interim - eventually this route will get the same system I-93 has). Future integration is possible, but this is only a 2-year pilot program that will need to be renewed and expanded before it is integrated with the overhead VMS system. There are still several systems operating concurrently as a result of the recent agency merger that formed MassDOT. The travel time system was only supposed to be temporary during the Fast 14 bridge project, but was brought back due to motorist approval, which is another reason it was not permanently integrated from the get-go.
The data is drawn from tracking Bluetooth devices (not all cell phones) anonymously.
Quote from: NE2 on July 29, 2012, 10:50:41 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.tinypic.com%2Fqodqmr.jpg&hash=c378ca5a4c32a6d46e1f8c4f1c3fb6b52000bdc3)
mmm perty.. I would like to shake hands with who ever decided to put that up. (where is that? btw)
Quote from: on_wisconsin on July 30, 2012, 12:35:52 AM
mmm perty.. I would like to shake hands with who ever decided to put that up. (where is that? btw)
Near US 192. (Orlando.) I also saw a toll 528 shield, but that photo turned out crappy.
I wish Oregon and Washington would install them prior to I-205 (northbound in Wilsonville, OR; southbound in Hazel Dell, WA.)
Washington has a few in the Seattle area.
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/lkwamgt/traveltime/
Here's another style used on I-90.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3239%2F5864608246_274b7bcf53_z.jpg&hash=686ae745972b7905d28fac2478aac40e91767a07)
One thing I think is important for travel time signs is the inclusion of the distance to the place in question because otherwise it doesn't help anyone other than the local driver who uses the road all the time. For example, on Saturday I saw an overhead VMS on southbound I-95 in Virginia that said "Route 610/20 miles/41 minutes." You may not have a clue where Route 610 is, but if it's estimated to take 41 minutes to go 20 miles it's at least a good indicator that you can expect slow traffic ahead and that if you don't have a map or sat-nav you might want to keep an eye on where all the local driver start bailing out.
The Colorado sign posted further up this page by "r-dub" is an example of a sign that wouldn't tell me anything useful as someone who doesn't know the Denver area very well. Certainly well-intentioned, mind you, just not the best-thought-out in practice.
This was on I-15 southbound, just a little south of CA 78:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2FInt15ExpressLanesSign.jpg&hash=8f663850ba0911589e46ab7f27b97ae0f45fce6f)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 31, 2012, 04:34:11 AM
Washington has a few in the Seattle area.
WSDOT, in the Seattle area, is definitely good with traffic information to the customer.
ODOT always seems to be catching up to WSDOT. WSDOT had live cameras, the website, streaming video, all several years before ODOT. And the latest is variable speed zones - Oregon has one in place with a second about to open, while WSDOT has been doing it on Snoqualmie Pass for years and now on I-5 in Seattle for a couple years.
There are at least two of these. This one is on US 13/58/460 approaching I-664. There's another on I-664 in the same area.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1cPo6Ek0_Cs/UARENo3a8fI/AAAAAAAACvU/baTlGOMKIcc/s816/DSC01127.JPG)
It said 28 minutes for both, but for some reason my camera didn't catch it.
^ The displays usually work on a 30/60Hz refresh rate, so a faster shutter speed when facing that display directly might make it disappear entirely. Shooting the display from an angle might yield different results, although that's why sometimes the pictures you see appear to have "dropped pixels".
Take a photo of your favorite TV show at something like 1/100 second, and see what happens. The results can be erratic, until you drop down to 1/25 second or slower.
Quote from: Takumi on August 01, 2012, 05:08:23 PM
There are at least two of these. This one is on US 13/58/460 approaching I-664. There's another on I-664 in the same area.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1cPo6Ek0_Cs/UARENo3a8fI/AAAAAAAACvU/baTlGOMKIcc/s816/DSC01127.JPG
It said 28 minutes for both, but for some reason my camera didn't catch it.
There are now several of those around the Hampton Roads area, some for the Va Beach Oceanfront and some for the Outer Banks.
Quote from: formulanone on August 01, 2012, 05:23:40 PM
^ The displays usually work on a 30/60Hz refresh rate, so a faster shutter speed when facing that display directly might make it disappear entirely. Shooting the display from an angle might yield different results, although that's why sometimes the pictures you see appear to have "dropped pixels".
Take a photo of your favorite TV show at something like 1/100 second, and see what happens. The results can be erratic, until you drop down to 1/25 second or slower.
Interesting. That would also explain why another travel time sign I photographed (for I-495 on I-95) had the same issue.
It would probably be a helpful if they put them around Los Angeles more. There's at least 3 that always show drive time that I can think of but not a lot of them.
210 West past Wheatland Av almost always has 5 North & 14 North times to destination
170 South drive time to downtown
101 North (west) at Laurel Cyn will show mins to 405 South, 23 and 126
But maybe more specific is what would work. 5 North minutes to Burbank/Glendale or 10 West minutes to 710. The 101 one always seemed a little useless to me and most people don't take the 210 past the 118 and even if they do it thins out even more by the time you get to the 5/14
Quote from: bulkyorled on August 02, 2012, 05:12:28 AM
It would probably be a helpful if they put them around Los Angeles more. There's at least 3 that always show drive time that I can think of but not a lot of them.
210 West past Wheatland Av almost always has 5 North & 14 North times to destination
170 South drive time to downtown
101 North (west) at Laurel Cyn will show mins to 405 South, 23 and 126
But maybe more specific is what would work. 5 North minutes to Burbank/Glendale or 10 West minutes to 710. The 101 one always seemed a little useless to me and most people don't take the 210 past the 118 and even if they do it thins out even more by the time you get to the 5/14
You would also have to add hours to the signs!
Quote from: Takumi on August 01, 2012, 07:55:10 PM
Quote from: formulanone on August 01, 2012, 05:23:40 PM
^ The displays usually work on a 30/60Hz refresh rate, so a faster shutter speed when facing that display directly might make it disappear entirely. Shooting the display from an angle might yield different results, although that's why sometimes the pictures you see appear to have "dropped pixels".
Take a photo of your favorite TV show at something like 1/100 second, and see what happens. The results can be erratic, until you drop down to 1/25 second or slower.
Interesting. That would also explain why another travel time sign I photographed (for I-495 on I-95) had the same issue.
Not meaning to go completely off-topic but that explanation about the refresh rate does explain why I see the shot clock/game clock displays on top of the backboards fade in and out when I'm watching NBA or college basketball on TV.
Quote from: myosh_tino on August 02, 2012, 01:23:04 PMNot meaning to go completely off-topic but that explanation about the refresh rate does explain why I see the shot clock/game clock displays on top of the backboards fade in and out when I'm watching NBA or college basketball on TV.
I've always thought it a little bit archaic that they use
a camera trained on the physical display as the shot clock indicator on TV. this as opposed to splicing off the digital feed which is sent to the scoreboard.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 02, 2012, 01:29:45 PM
I've always thought it a little bit archaic that they use a camera trained on the physical display as the shot clock indicator on TV. this as opposed to splicing off the digital feed which is sent to the scoreboard.
That's generally a rare occurrence to see anymore, but I suppose there's a few stadia/arenas that still do it. You get a sense of the "crowd going wild" when the zoomed-in shot shakes a little bit during a crucial moment of a game. [/even more off-topic]
Here's an example of parking-lot lighting, with a slow, gentle pan at 3.2 seconds. Notice how the lighting has a "moment of darkness" within a pattern of brightness? Same principle; I suppose all lighting works on the concept of cycles per second, but I didn't stay awake long enough in class long enough to fully understand why this happens; I suppose everything within an electrical circuit is not completely instantaneous.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fgtp%2Fbox%2FNightLights3%272sExp.jpg&hash=b8bc588373b8b6498a63775bf6174dd180c598eb)
Here's the other Virginia Beach travel time sign (on eastbound I-664), with visible numbers. I used a shutter speed of 1/400 second at f/7.1, but then again, it is at an angle. I've managed to get VMS pictures straight-on, I'm wondering if it has to do with luck and shutter speeds faster than the sign's refresh rate.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Y7-l_WXFbuE/UBs2ckkHnrI/AAAAAAAAFfM/b0CraL3owhM/s800/K5PC2193.jpg)
Quote from: bulkyorled on August 02, 2012, 05:12:28 AM
It would probably be a helpful if they put them around Los Angeles more. There's at least 3 that always show drive time that I can think of but not a lot of them.
210 West past Wheatland Av almost always has 5 North & 14 North times to destination
170 South drive time to downtown
101 North (west) at Laurel Cyn will show mins to 405 South, 23 and 126
But maybe more specific is what would work. 5 North minutes to Burbank/Glendale or 10 West minutes to 710. The 101 one always seemed a little useless to me and most people don't take the 210 past the 118 and even if they do it thins out even more by the time you get to the 5/14
I-405 has several of them: Northbound in Long Beach around Cherry Avenue - one usually shows time to I-110 and LAX; around Hawthorne or Artesia Blvd. one shows time to LAX and I-10. Southbound around Wilmington one usually shows time to I-605 and...I don't remember. There's also at least one on CA-91 around Downey Avenue.
Quote from: mapman1071 on August 02, 2012, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: bulkyorled on August 02, 2012, 05:12:28 AM
It would probably be a helpful if they put them around Los Angeles more. There's at least 3 that always show drive time that I can think of but not a lot of them.
210 West past Wheatland Av almost always has 5 North & 14 North times to destination
170 South drive time to downtown
101 North (west) at Laurel Cyn will show mins to 405 South, 23 and 126
But maybe more specific is what would work. 5 North minutes to Burbank/Glendale or 10 West minutes to 710. The 101 one always seemed a little useless to me and most people don't take the 210 past the 118 and even if they do it thins out even more by the time you get to the 5/14
You would also have to add hours to the signs!
Thats true, god knows if you put over 60 mins it would confuse people
Yeah, who the hell would put hours on signs?
Quote from: r-dub on February 08, 2011, 05:00:46 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fr-dub.us%2Fpics%2F01a.jpg&hash=3eb0dcd96a8fbd408718d5f2e0b8cec4cc36cd9a)
Oh...
Quote from: bulkyorled on August 03, 2012, 07:54:30 AM
Thats true, god knows if you put over 60 mins it would confuse people
I've seen a 75 once; it was on 5 southbound at the 170 split and that was the time for "downtown via 101". Eek! it's about 12 miles.
Quote from: bulkyorled link=topic=2886.msg165815#msg165815
Thats true, god knows if you put over 60 mins it would confuse people
If there's anything I learned form MTV, it's that 120 Minutes equals two hours.
Actually, I knew that before, but I'm trying to make excuses.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 03, 2012, 11:42:34 AM
Quote from: bulkyorled on August 03, 2012, 07:54:30 AM
Thats true, god knows if you put over 60 mins it would confuse people
I've seen a 75 once; it was on 5 southbound at the 170 split and that was the time for "downtown via 101". Eek! it's about 12 miles.
Quite often during a snowstorm in Chicagoland, you can see the travel times displayed in the hundreds of minutes rather than hours. I remember during the Feb 2/3, 2011 blizzard had travel times on I-88 Eastbound the VMS near Orchard Rd had a travel time to I-294 of 133 minutes. In no traffic, the time is usually about 24 minutes.
I wonder how they'd display the 13+ hour travel times people here encountered during January 2011's messy snowstorm.
It might as well have said "Dude, just go home." :-D
Quote from: Takumi on August 04, 2012, 09:59:46 PM
It might as well have said "Dude, just go home." :-D
That's what people were trying to do!
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 31, 2012, 04:34:11 AM
Washington has a few in the Seattle area.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8304%2F7760859290_0945b79d50_c.jpg&hash=230e9e41360f80439fea23985fcd7be990223e84)
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on August 11, 2012, 05:08:12 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8304%2F7760859290_0945b79d50_c.jpg&hash=230e9e41360f80439fea23985fcd7be990223e84)
Knowing how totally unpredictable Seattle area traffic is (made numerous trips to visit relatives), that is a very helpful sign. Logic says I-405 is the fastest route to Bellevue but congestion through Renton is a real problem which might make I-5 to I-90 a faster route. I also find it interesting that the displays can accommodate 3 digits. :wow:
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 02, 2012, 01:29:45 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on August 02, 2012, 01:23:04 PMNot meaning to go completely off-topic but that explanation about the refresh rate does explain why I see the shot clock/game clock displays on top of the backboards fade in and out when I'm watching NBA or college basketball on TV.
I've always thought it a little bit archaic that they use a camera trained on the physical display as the shot clock indicator on TV. this as opposed to splicing off the digital feed which is sent to the scoreboard.
I always love seeing old game shows where they would show the player's winnings at the end by training a camera on the score display and luminance keying (essentially green screen but keying out black instead of green) it over the shot of the winner celebrating. Family Feud did something similar for the timer during the bonus round.
Quote from: formulanone on August 02, 2012, 03:51:11 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 02, 2012, 01:29:45 PM
I've always thought it a little bit archaic that they use a camera trained on the physical display as the shot clock indicator on TV. this as opposed to splicing off the digital feed which is sent to the scoreboard.
That's generally a rare occurrence to see anymore, but I suppose there's a few stadia/arenas that still do it. You get a sense of the "crowd going wild" when the zoomed-in shot shakes a little bit during a crucial moment of a game. [/even more off-topic]
Here's an example of parking-lot lighting, with a slow, gentle pan at 3.2 seconds. Notice how the lighting has a "moment of darkness" within a pattern of brightness? Same principle; I suppose all lighting works on the concept of cycles per second, but I didn't stay awake long enough in class long enough to fully understand why this happens; I suppose everything within an electrical circuit is not completely instantaneous.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formulanone.org%2Fgtp%2Fbox%2FNightLights3%272sExp.jpg&hash=b8bc588373b8b6498a63775bf6174dd180c598eb)
Most street lights use various types of arc lamps rather than the incandescent bulbs most people are used to. If those were incandescent bulbs you wouldn't see that pattern, but arc lamps only make light when the voltage across the bulb is enough to make a spark in the vapor in the bulb. The electrical power for the lights is AC, 60 Hz in the U.S., and 50 Hz in some other countries, so instead of producing a constant light, the arc lamps only produce light when the voltage is away from the center of the wave, so you'll see a pulsing in the light at double the frequency of the AC line (120 Hz). Since the camera is most likely taking shots at a lower frequency, instead of seeing a 120 Hz pattern, we'll see a lower-frequency beat wave.
Now THIS is an awesome VMS, I mean, a freaking route shield on a VMS! Where else has this been done?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8281%2F7767589258_6e28dde190_c.jpg&hash=e05d704a43cc11778be5c4505e7968cfa5ee27da)
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on August 12, 2012, 02:41:54 PM
Now THIS is an awesome VMS, I mean, a freaking route shield on a VMS! Where else has this been done?
Quote from: NE2 on July 29, 2012, 10:50:41 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.tinypic.com%2Fqodqmr.jpg&hash=c378ca5a4c32a6d46e1f8c4f1c3fb6b52000bdc3)
Quote from: NE2 on August 12, 2012, 03:45:19 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.tinypic.com%2Fqodqmr.jpg&hash=c378ca5a4c32a6d46e1f8c4f1c3fb6b52000bdc3)
Aw, hell! That's
way better! I ought to get out to the Metro Orlando area more often!
:clap: :)
I'm not aware of any in PA, NY, or NJ...they only recently started posting times on VMSs instead of separate signs. Does anyone know if there are plans to convert to standalone signs for PA, NY, or NJ?
I have seen some in Ontario on the QEW.
Quote from: jemacedo9 on August 12, 2012, 08:24:32 PM
I'm not aware of any in PA, NY, or NJ...they only recently started posting times on VMSs instead of separate signs. Does anyone know if there are plans to convert to standalone signs for PA, NY, or NJ?
No, but they're expanding the program in NJ to cover more VMS on more roads. (They are also now doing it for work zones using portable VMS.) Considering the VMS are only ever used for a) Silver Alerts or b) NYC crossing delays, I'm just fine with it.
This one looks like it's just about ready to go (Interstate 990 SB near its terminus with Interstate 290) in Buffalo:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg717.imageshack.us%2Fimg717%2F1415%2F990traveltime.png&hash=ca766a9f5b69a919685b35a44be2a235d08faa0d)
The existing VMS is showing the border crossing delays. At that time:
Peace Br: 0-30 mins
Rainbow Br: 30-60 mins
Lewiston-Queenston Br: 30-60 mins
Quote from: burgess87 on August 20, 2012, 09:46:03 PM
This one looks like it's just about ready to go (Interstate 990 SB near its terminus with Interstate 290) in Buffalo:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg717.imageshack.us%2Fimg717%2F1415%2F990traveltime.png&hash=ca766a9f5b69a919685b35a44be2a235d08faa0d)
The existing VMS is showing the border crossing delays. At that time:
Peace Br: 0-30 mins
Rainbow Br: 30-60 mins
Lewiston-Queenston Br: 30-60 mins
I've seen this sign going up myself and thinks its a great idea.
See how much time to downtown Buffalo via I-290 east (/ NY 33 west) or I-290 west (/ I-190 south)
Quote from: algorerhythms on August 12, 2012, 11:48:56 AM
Most street lights use various types of arc lamps rather than the incandescent bulbs most people are used to. If those were incandescent bulbs you wouldn't see that pattern, but arc lamps only make light when the voltage across the bulb is enough to make a spark in the vapor in the bulb. The electrical power for the lights is AC, 60 Hz in the U.S., and 50 Hz in some other countries, so instead of producing a constant light, the arc lamps only produce light when the voltage is away from the center of the wave, so you'll see a pulsing in the light at double the frequency of the AC line (120 Hz). Since the camera is most likely taking shots at a lower frequency, instead of seeing a 120 Hz pattern, we'll see a lower-frequency beat wave.
Thanks for that :), couldn't quite find an answer on Google (although having a short attention span never helps).
Salt Lake City does everything right with travel times. Their VMS signs display times, even on the weekends. Signs near the split for the airport advertised travel times via I-215 and I-15. Finally, coming out of downtown on Cesar Chavez Blvd, the BGS signs for each Interstate option (I-80 West, I-15 South, I-80 East) display travel times for two destinations on each freeway.
I-278 Staten Island Expressway has travel time display signs from RT-440 to Verrazano Bridge and this is the chokepoint that most Brookyln and JFK aiport bound drivers go through if they are driving from Piscataway and Camden, NJ areas
This is one of the new travel time signs on I-15 around Vegas, this one southbound:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8073%2F8354486505_f7f2374562_c.jpg&hash=586844282f5f7338b21c5efbbcd2360e4c926411)
As you can see, they haven't been turned on yet, so they must be fairly new.
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on January 06, 2013, 05:32:05 PM
This is one of the new travel time signs on I-15 around Vegas, this one southbound:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8073%2F8354486505_f7f2374562_c.jpg&hash=586844282f5f7338b21c5efbbcd2360e4c926411)
As you can see, they haven't been turned on yet, so they must be fairly new.
I was not aware that these types of travel time signs had been rolled out to other freeways around Vegas.
RTC installed some similar signs on the southern leg of the 215 beltway a little while back. They went with this style as a more cost effective implementation. They had already implemented travel time displays on I-15 and US 95 in Las Vegas, but these rely on VMS signs to display the times (which are lost when other messages have to be displayed) -- the beltway currently has no VMS displays.
NDOT installed similar signs along I-80 in Reno with their recent reconstruction. Here, brand new VMS displays were put in, but they also put in these types of travel time signs. (The I-80 project installed a lot of ITS infrastructure, where there was virtually no ITS infrastructure previously.) I have yet to see these active though.
Quote from: NE2 on August 12, 2012, 03:45:19 PM
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on August 12, 2012, 02:41:54 PM
Now THIS is an awesome VMS, I mean, a freaking route shield on a VMS! Where else has this been done?
Quote from: NE2 on July 29, 2012, 10:50:41 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.tinypic.com%2Fqodqmr.jpg&hash=c378ca5a4c32a6d46e1f8c4f1c3fb6b52000bdc3)
Smaller shield on Raleigh's 1st Modern toll road, the "TriEx".
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2Ftriex-2_zpsc035c962.png&hash=8984f63c8faf41a1cc25f8440203a056c05bc41d)
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on January 06, 2013, 05:32:05 PM
This is one of the new travel time signs on I-15 around Vegas, this one southbound:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8073%2F8354486505_f7f2374562_c.jpg&hash=586844282f5f7338b21c5efbbcd2360e4c926411)
As you can see, they haven't been turned on yet, so they must be fairly new.
I'm curious...why the blank space? Is there some destination that will be added in the future that isn't accessible now?
Quote from: Central Avenue on January 20, 2013, 05:37:01 PM
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on January 06, 2013, 05:32:05 PM
This is one of the new travel time signs on I-15 around Vegas, this one southbound:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8073%2F8354486505_f7f2374562_c.jpg&hash=586844282f5f7338b21c5efbbcd2360e4c926411)
As you can see, they haven't been turned on yet, so they must be fairly new.
I'm curious...why the blank space? Is there some destination that will be added in the future that isn't accessible now?
Who knows, maybe a Baker or Barstow would be put there...
Quote from: Central Avenue on January 20, 2013, 05:37:01 PM
I'm curious...why the blank space? Is there some destination that will be added in the future that isn't accessible now?
IIRC, all of these new NDOT signs -- both here and around Reno -- have three lines of digits installed, even if they're not signed for anything.
In this case, they can't sign much beyond Primm and stay within their own data sets. They could, I suppose, add (what's left of) Jean as an intermediate destination so folks could decide whether to pause there if the backup is unusually bad.
Quote from: architect77 on January 20, 2013, 04:44:57 PM
Smaller shield on Raleigh's 1st Modern toll road, the "TriEx".
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2Ftriex-2_zpsc035c962.png&hash=8984f63c8faf41a1cc25f8440203a056c05bc41d)
That's more like "no shit, Sherlock". If it's a toll road, then of course tolling will be in progress. It is a very nice digital rendering of the shield.