I thought I had seen this topic on AARoads previously, but couldn't find it. My comment about the "crazy intersection of US-60 and WV-25" in Charleston got me researching how this intersection was handled in the old days. The current WV-25 is on the North Charleston bypass for US-35. This used to be the "intersection" of US-60, US-21 and US-35. This is one of the few places that three "main" U.S. routes came to together, but thus far I can't find any evidence that they all ever intersected with each other.
1930s: US-35 came in from the west on Washington Street West and ended at the intersection with Sissonville Road. US-21 came in from the north on Sissonville Road and turned left (east) onto Washington Street. A couple of long blocks later, US-60 came in from the south on Patrick Street and turned right (east) on Washington Street to form a long concurrency with US-21. In this version, US-60 and US-35 are two blocks apart (east-west) and never meet.
Early 1960s, perhaps earlier: US-35 was relocated onto a new four-lane Seventh Avenue through North Charleston. It now ends where it intersects with US-21 at Patrick Street. US-21 and US-60 still run on their historical routings. US-21 and US-35 no longer intersect, but they are now separated only two short blocks from each other.
Mid 1960s: As the South Side Bridge across the Kanawha River into downtown Charleston gets too crowded, most traffic from the west now crosses the larger Patrick Street bridge. The intersection of US-60 and US-35 is already jammed with trucks, and becomes clogged worse than ever. Local traffic begins to use side streets to avoid Patrick Street altogether. Traffic between US-21 and US-35 is encouraged to use Iowa Street (which is the extension of Sissonville Road south of Washington Street). On bad days, this entire section of town gets completely gridlocked.
Late 1960s: Today's "crazy loop" was created to relieve the gridlock. US-21 stays on its historic routing turning left (west) from Sissonville Road to Washington Street. Seventh Avenue is made one way westbound from Patrick Street to Iowa Street. US-60 eastbound is rerouted to turn left (west) on Seventh Avenue, then make an immediate right (north) on Rebecca Street. The start of US-35 westbound was truncated to this intersection. This causes US-60 eastbound to be extended one block west of its historic routing on Washington Street.
Going the other way, US-60 westbound is extended two long blocks west on Washington Street to the intersection with Sissonville Road. US-60 westbound turns left onto Iowa Street, which is made one-way south of here beyond Seventh Avenue (US-35). US-60 westbound is multiplexed with US-35 "southbound" and continues south on Iowa Street, skipping Sixth Avenue and then turning left (east) on Fifth Avenue, which is made one-way to the intersection with Patrick Street. US-60 rejoins its original routing here, turning right (south) on Patrick Street. US-35 ends at this same intersection of Fifth and Patrick. This creates a one-way concurrency of US-60 and US-35.
Important sidenote: Traffic between US-35 "southbound" and US-21 northbound must now traverse almost the entire loop. Most folks doing this decide to avoid this altogether and use Tyler Mountain Road (now Big Tyler Road) to Rocky Fork Road as a hillbilly bypass. In 1976, these roads were signed as WV-622 and WV-501.
1970: US-35 is rerouted onto the south bank of the Kanawha River, formerly WV-17. WV-25 gets extended along the Seventh Avenue four-lane. The concurrency is changed to a backwards one-way concurrency of US-60 westbound and WV-25 eastbound. I recall this being marked for a while.
1979: US-21 is truncated all the way down to Wytheville, Virginia. Sissonville Road becomes CR-21 in all four West Virginia counties north of here, and I believe that this was the first multi-county route with the same number in the state. At some point in the 1980s, CR-21 gets signed with New Jersey style trailblazers. This is now listed as LSR-21 on state records.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 23, 2021, 10:41:51 AM
Late 1960s: Today's "crazy loop" was created to relieve the gridlock. US-21 stays on its historic routing turning left (west) from Sissonville Road to Washington Street. Seventh Avenue is made one way westbound from Patrick Street to Iowa Street. US-60 eastbound is rerouted to turn left (west) on Seventh Avenue, then make an immediate right (north) on Rebecca Street. The start of US-35 westbound was truncated to this intersection. This causes US-60 eastbound to be extended one block west of its historic routing on Washington Street.
Going the other way, US-60 westbound is extended two long blocks west on Washington Street to the intersection with Sissonville Road. US-60 westbound turns left onto Iowa Street, which is made one-way south of here beyond Seventh Avenue (US-35). US-60 westbound is multiplexed with US-35 "southbound" and continues south on Iowa Street, skipping Sixth Avenue and then turning left (east) on Fifth Avenue, which is made one-way to the intersection with Patrick Street. US-60 rejoins its original routing here, turning right (south) on Patrick Street. US-35 ends at this same intersection of Fifth and Patrick. This creates a one-way concurrency of US-60 and US-35.
I vaguely recall a short time where US-21 was routed around the loop and that one block portion of Washington Street made one way. If so, this would have been the only time that all three roads (US-60, US-21 and US-35) ever intersected. Anybody know for sure?
Dale Sanderson (usends.com) and I have been trying to find posted proof US 35 reached US 60. So far, nothing. if you zoom way in on this photo - https://mywvhome.com/fifties/patrickst1.html, there might be a US 35 shield at the far intersection but way to fuzzy to tell.
Some other examples:
US 521 and US 701 end 1 block from one another and have not touched since 1992.
US 33 ends 3 blocks short of touching US 1-301
US 250 is parallel to US 60, 3 blocks apart and no longer touch
US 13 and US 301 have never touched in NC but are quite close
They used to be closer than this but US 301 and US 401 Bus in Fayetteville NC are about a mile apart
US 52 and US 601 come within about a mile in Salisbury NC (though meet later in Mt Airy)
US 176 ends a little short of US 64 on one end and a littke short of US 78 on the other
US 72 comes very close to US 78 but does not touch
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 23, 2021, 02:03:11 PM
US 72 comes very close to US 78 but does not touch
Chattanooga signage is problematic, but 72 also comes close to 76, doesn't it? And 27 and 127 as well? For that matter, 127 isn't too far from touching 11, 41, and 64.
How close do US 23 and US 29 come in Atlanta? Or US 22 and US 50 in Cincinnati? (For that matter, the truncated-at-the-state-line US 25 and 22, 50, and 52?)
US 30 & US 40 get within a mile or 2 of each other in Atlantic City (not including US 322 since it intersects US 30 in PA).
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 23, 2021, 02:03:11 PM
US 13 and US 301 have never touched in NC but are quite close
And following the Delaware realignment, US 301 north gets snug against US 13 as it crosses & merges into DE 1. (Now that I think about it...this would have to be the absolute closest 2 US routes get without intersecting, right?)
Quote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:33:55 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 23, 2021, 02:03:11 PM
US 72 comes very close to US 78 but does not touch
Chattanooga signage is problematic, but 72 also comes close to 76, doesn't it? And 27 and 127 as well? For that matter, 127 isn't too far from touching 11, 41, and 64.
How close do US 23 and US 29 come in Atlanta? Or US 22 and US 50 in Cincinnati? (For that matter, the truncated-at-the-state-line US 25 and 22, 50, and 52?)
Depends on whether you believe the latest TDOT map of Chattanooga. If you do, US 72 touches US 76 and US 127. US 127 is a close miss with US 41 and a near miss with US 11-64. US 76 is now a close miss to US 27.
23 and 29 multiplex in Suburban Atlanta.
US 22 and 50 used to duplex until I-71 was built. Now they only get a few hundred feet from one another at US 22's west end. It looks like US 25 at the state line is about 2/10 mile from US 27-52
For Cincinnati, US 22 uses the 7th St/9th St pair and ends at its intersection with 27/42/52/127. So it misses US 50, which is on Fort Washington Way with I-71.
What's interesting is that none of the US routes through downtown are signed on US 50, which is a freeways at both ends of downtown. The EB ramps to downtown only signs OH 264 and 2nd St, and WB only signs 3rd St. US 50 and 52 are parallel east of downtown for a bit. There are slip ramps from US 50 onto US 52, and US 52 are signed on them.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:33:55 PM
How close do US 23 and US 29 come in Atlanta? Or US 22 and US 50 in Cincinnati? (For that matter, the truncated-at-the-state-line US 25 and 22, 50, and 52?)
They intersect northeast of Atlanta I think
Though does 23 and 41 ever intersect each other? They're both parallel with I-75 between Atlanta and Macon, though they head in opposite directions after both cities.
US 206 and US 6 come within walking distance.
^ If you consider 3/4mi where half the road lacks a sidewalk or wide shoulder to be "walking distance", then sure...
Quote from: froggie on March 25, 2021, 08:49:58 AM
^ If you consider 3/4mi where half the road lacks a sidewalk or wide shoulder to be "walking distance", then sure...
I'm not talking about the actual road.. 3/4 mile is walking distance.
US 301 and US 401 in Fayetteville, NC.
US 19 and US 92 in St. Petersburg, FL.
In the newly minted category there is US 311 and US 158-421
Quote from: kenarmy on March 25, 2021, 12:15:44 AM
US 206 and US 6 come within walking distance.
I've always wondered about this one (and judging by your signature, you have too :-D)...the old DRJTBC signs coming off the Milford-Montague Toll Bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3107286,-74.8027757,3a,75y,3.05h,87.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAKbpZYKk2AlRPPifnu1GLQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) show US 206 as entering an overlap with US 209, so did US 206 formally meet its parent at one point? Or was this just always a sign error on DRJTBC's part?
Quote from: jmacswimmer on March 25, 2021, 10:14:17 AM
Quote from: kenarmy on March 25, 2021, 12:15:44 AM
US 206 and US 6 come within walking distance.
I've always wondered about this one (and judging by your signature, you have too :-D)...the old DRJTBC signs coming off the Milford-Montague Toll Bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3107286,-74.8027757,3a,75y,3.05h,87.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAKbpZYKk2AlRPPifnu1GLQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) show US 206 as entering an overlap with US 209, so did US 206 formally meet its parent at one point? Or was this just always a sign error on DRJTBC's part?
Yeah it used to, but for some strange reason it was truncated in 1946. I'm convinced PA did this just to annoy road geeks.. LITERALLY WHY. and they
still have a few signs around that show 206 still ending there. This bothers me so much bye :-D
Should we include vertical distance? Are there US Routes that cross over/under each other with no interchange? Can we get to less than 14 feet?
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 24, 2021, 10:47:22 PM
For Cincinnati, US 22 uses the 7th St/9th St pair and ends at its intersection with 27/42/52/127. So it misses US 50, which is on Fort Washington Way with I-71.
What's interesting is that none of the US routes through downtown are signed on US 50, which is a freeways at both ends of downtown. The EB ramps to downtown only signs OH 264 and 2nd St, and WB only signs 3rd St. US 50 and 52 are parallel east of downtown for a bit. There are slip ramps from US 50 onto US 52, and US 52 are signed on them.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:33:55 PM
How close do US 23 and US 29 come in Atlanta? Or US 22 and US 50 in Cincinnati? (For that matter, the truncated-at-the-state-line US 25 and 22, 50, and 52?)
They intersect northeast of Atlanta I think
Though does 23 and 41 ever intersect each other? They're both parallel with I-75 between Atlanta and Macon, though they head in opposite directions after both cities.
US 23 and US 41 do not, they only come within about 5 miles of each other in the southern part of metro Atlanta. US 23 and US 19 are a pair that come close without intersecting in the Atlanta area (about 3 miles), but they do intersect elsewhere such as Asheville NC.
(Every other pair of US routes in Atlanta intersect and/or overlap.)
50 and 52 in Cincinnati just after 50 leaves 71.
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 10:52:54 AM
Should we include vertical distance? Are there US Routes that cross over/under each other with no interchange? Can we get to less than 14 feet?
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 25, 2021, 09:10:33 AM
In the newly minted category there is US 311 and US 158-421
Speaking of US 311, it passes under US 58 without an interchange and ends at Business US 58.
Also in Virginia, US 58 comes close to both US 11E and US 11W but does not intersect them.
In Tennessee, US 129 and US 441 get close in Knoxville but don't touch.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 25, 2021, 11:54:44 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 10:52:54 AM
Should we include vertical distance? Are there US Routes that cross over/under each other with no interchange? Can we get to less than 14 feet?
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 25, 2021, 09:10:33 AM
In the newly minted category there is US 311 and US 158-421
Speaking of US 311, it passes under US 58 without an interchange and ends at Business US 58.
Also in Virginia, US 58 comes close to both US 11E and US 11W but does not intersect them.
In Tennessee, US 129 and US 441 get close in Knoxville but don't touch.
There is a project to connect US 311 to US 58 directly.
US 129 and US 441 in Knoxville are saving it for their marriage in Georgia...
Quote from: Hwy 61 Revisited on March 25, 2021, 11:53:34 AM
50 and 52 in Cincinnati just after 50 leaves 71.
However, 50 and 52 cross at the west end of Fort Washington Way and there at least 2 direct ramps between the two routes.
One in California that went under the radar for years but ironically was signed decently:
Though there was a lane signed for US 70 (circa 1959-1960) along US 101 south at the Four-Level Interchange in LA, US 70's westernmost extent was the San Bernardino Split (today's I-10/US 101 junction) a mile to the east, meaning that US 70 never intersects US 6 (which used to run along the Harbor Freeway and a sliver of the Arroyo Seco Parkway). Could include the specific Eagle Rock-Pasadena version of Alternate US 66 in that regard.
Although the eventual version of US 70 also missed on intersecting US 66 in Los Angeles, US 66 was the original west terminus in Holbrook, AZ if I'm not mistaken.
US 22 and US 422 no longer meet in Ebensburg, PA. They are separated by a 2 mile stretch of the US 219 expressway.
Nothing in Indiana that would be considered particularly close. Best you can get is US 6 and US 12 within 2 miles of each other in Lake County.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 25, 2021, 06:42:24 PM
Nothing in Indiana that would be considered particularly close. Best you can get is US 6 and US 12 within 2 miles of each other in Lake County.
I'm not sure how US routes were formally laid out inside of I-465, but how close did US 136 get to intersect its parent US 36 back then? Currently, it's about 2 1/2 miles along I-465, which is more than the Lake County example.
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 25, 2021, 06:54:39 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 25, 2021, 06:42:24 PM
Nothing in Indiana that would be considered particularly close. Best you can get is US 6 and US 12 within 2 miles of each other in Lake County.
I'm not sure how US routes were formally laid out inside of I-465, but how close did US 136 get to intersect its parent US 36 back then? Currently, it's about 2 1/2 miles along I-465, which is more than the Lake County example.
US 136 followed Crawfordsville Rd to 16th St, and then 16th St to MLK St. US 36 followed Rockville Rd to Washington St, Washington St to West St, West St/MLK St to 30th St to Mass Ave, and then Mass Ave Pendleton Pike.
So they met at 16th/MLK.
As of now though, they come within 3 miles of each other, so that's almost as close as US 6 and 12.
i cant measure these rn:
- US 43 and US 98 in the Mobile area
- US 31 and US 98 in Spanish Fort (gm doesn't show 98's new routing on Battleship Parkway)
- US 82 and US 25 near Brunswick
- did US 6 and US 60 touch?
Quote- US 43 and US 98 in the Mobile area
Prior to 2001, 43 ended at 90/98 in downtown Mobile (Broad/Government intersection). Current end is a little over 3 miles as the crow flies from 98.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:33:55 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 23, 2021, 02:03:11 PM
US 72 comes very close to US 78 but does not touch
Chattanooga signage is problematic, but 72 also comes close to 76, doesn't it? And 27 and 127 as well? For that matter, 127 isn't too far from touching 11, 41, and 64.
How close do US 23 and US 29 come in Atlanta? Or US 22 and US 50 in Cincinnati? (For that matter, the truncated-at-the-state-line US 25 and 22, 50, and 52?)
I think I will ask TDOT if they can clarify the routing of the US highways in Chattanooga. That place is a mess when it comes to US highways for sure.
US 2 and US 23 terminate about 5.5 miles from each other on opposite sides of the Straits of Mackinac. Even closer, US 23 and US 31 are about 1.5 miles from each other south of Mackinaw City, although they previously intersected in Mackinaw City. The closest near-miss though would be US 12 and US 223 in Somerset at about 3,600 feet apart. (Previously, AASHTO considered US 223 to silently overlap US 127 up to US 12 in some logs.) Those should be the top three for Michigan
US 3 and 20 in Boston/ Cambridge.
US 5 and US 1 in New Haven, CT.
I am not sure about this one in Norwalk, CT. I think US 7 does not intersect US there, but are close.
Closest in Arkansas appears to be US 165 and US 67 in North Little Rock. US 165 terminates at US 70. US 67 follows I-40 and I-30 as a concurrency a couple of miles north and west.
US 20 and US 1 in Boston.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on March 23, 2021, 02:43:57 PM
US 30 & US 40 get within a mile or 2 of each other in Atlantic City (not including US 322 since it intersects US 30 in PA).
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 23, 2021, 02:03:11 PM
US 13 and US 301 have never touched in NC but are quite close
And following the Delaware realignment, US 301 north gets snug against US 13 as it crosses & merges into DE 1. (Now that I think about it...this would have to be the absolute closest 2 US routes get without intersecting, right?)
Giving credit to those quoted above, I think that US 13 and US 301 is likely the answer ... it looks like in Delaware, northbound US 301 ends within
50 feet of southbound US 13 without intersecting it! (This would depend on the minute details of the definition of the path of US 301) Rather, US 301 ends at DE 1 which parallels US 13.
And in a cool coincidence, going about 350 miles (as the crow flies) south to Fayetteville NC, US 13 ends at I-95, less than ½ mile from US 301. So maybe both ends may be in the top ten!
The two roads never intersect (as currently routed).
US 209 terminates at PA 147 in Millersburg, PA, only about 1.36 miles from US 11/15, which is across the Susquehanna River.
Meanwhile in Delaware, US 202 terminates at I-95, missing US 13 also by about 1.36 miles (and misses US 13 Business by less than a mile).
And down in South Florida, US 441 parallels US 1 from about West Palm Beach down to Miami, passing within about a mile of each other at their closest approach, without touching.
US 42 comes within a few city blocks of US 150 in Louisville. There's a greater distance between US 42 and US 31 and US 31W, but it's not all that far down Main Street from the end of US 42 to 2nd Street. (Why not terminate US 42 at US 60 instead of having it run concurrent down to 31E)?
Also, US 460 comes within spittin' distance of US 127 in Frankfort.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 27, 2021, 01:45:46 AM
I am not sure about this one in Norwalk, CT. I think US 7 does not intersect US there, but are close.
US 1 is north of I-95 in Norwalk. US 7 has an interchange at US 1.
US 521 and US 701 don't intersect, but their endpoints are a block apart on US 17 in Georgetown, SC.
This wasn't always the case - 701 used to extend south into Charleston concurrent with 17. It was truncated back in 1992.
Quote from: US 89 on March 28, 2021, 12:25:05 PM
US 521 and US 701 don't intersect, but their endpoints are a block apart on US 17 in Georgetown, SC.
This wasn't always the case - 701 used to extend south into Charleston concurrent with 17. It was truncated back in 1992.
Couldn't make it to reply #3 of the thread? 😬
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 28, 2021, 01:59:18 PM
Quote from: US 89 on March 28, 2021, 12:25:05 PM
US 521 and US 701 don't intersect, but their endpoints are a block apart on US 17 in Georgetown, SC.
This wasn't always the case - 701 used to extend south into Charleston concurrent with 17. It was truncated back in 1992.
Couldn't make it to reply #3 of the thread? 😬
Could swear I looked for it. Apparently not hard enough... whoops :pan:
Quote from: Crown Victoria on March 27, 2021, 10:20:39 PM
Meanwhile in Delaware, US 202 terminates at I-95, missing US 13 also by about 1.36 miles (and misses US 13 Business by less than a mile).
I thought that US 202 actually joins I-95 for an (unsigned) concurrency to DE 141, and then overlaps DE 141 to a terminus at US 13/US 40?