I say these ones will need it.
US-13/264ALT/Frog Level Rd (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.571903,-77.4437491,3a,75y,56.35h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sU_AGqLJaq-CsPcAmCbHE0A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DU_AGqLJaq-CsPcAmCbHE0A%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D56.347225%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) - this one ultimately needs it. Dangerous for left turn Frog Level Rd traffic unless they add U-turn samples which I doubt they have any plans to do so anytime soon.
Davenport Farm Rd/Frog Level Rd (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5510284,-77.443086,3a,75y,179.52h,82.06t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sB_zfnpcBgdiIOryhZGUPrg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DB_zfnpcBgdiIOryhZGUPrg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D316.54425%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) - Why is there a 4 way stop at such a busy intersection? Signalize it! Both roads need widening as well.
Frog Level Rd/Forlines Rd (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5429663,-77.4432344,3a,75y,59.19h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1scEdfKFLoBL3gLcHLhYQPpA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DcEdfKFLoBL3gLcHLhYQPpA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D53.757687%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) - not as bad, but signals are a definite go. South Central High School traffic use this road a lot. Especially to the ones coming from Farmville Central.
Thomas Langston Rd/Davenport Farm Rd (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5484201,-77.4302757,3a,75y,204.67h,78.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqDBj6-n6ykVnWLhpeMadAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) - school traffic, can get backed up and it's very annoying. Many more intersections nearby need it as well.
Worthington Rd/County Home Rd (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5317042,-77.3488629,3a,75y,359.31h,83.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdI8-g331Iyhrvho3nnyhlw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DdI8-g331Iyhrvho3nnyhlw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D271.49054%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) - school traffic. Definitely needs it. Although it may get a roundabout soon.
US-13/US-258 (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.533897,-77.6040127,3a,75y,284.97h,89.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX_ZK-8FDxeqSD3rUAmy3Ow!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) fairly busy intersection, needs to be signalized or realigned.
Or maybe, you can just convert all of them into roundabouts if signals are so frustrating. Perfect for that area anyway (Not talking about the US-13/US-258 one).
Grimesland has no signals.
I can think of some right here in my city of Kansas City, MO - as they stand now (that is, merges either controlled only by stop signs or completely uncontrolled), they seem ripe for head-on collisions.
43rd Street at Westport Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0497534,-94.598371,3a,75y,299.4h,90.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saewZCFuJufQZQJjEl5fA2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Pershing Road at Gillham Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0815004,-94.5786313,3a,75y,174.33h,95.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4A0-B7bqjMhAhIOs9eWwsA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Meyer Boulevard at the Paseo (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.012321,-94.5683318,3a,75y,30.1h,71.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK3v41e95-lk9n9_ScfDApw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) (absolute traffic chaos!)
Also in KC: Meyer Boulevard at Swope Parkway (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0072713,-94.5428251,3a,75y,66h,93.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Y38YKuo4_Ft0LjPoPSNkw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) (How does THIS not have a light? It's at the entrance to Swope Park, and it's a huge intersection!)
Quote from: KCRoadFan on March 24, 2021, 12:33:25 AM
I can think of some right here in my city of Kansas City, MO - as they stand now (that is, merges either controlled only by stop signs or completely uncontrolled), they seem ripe for head-on collisions.
43rd Street at Westport Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0497534,-94.598371,3a,75y,299.4h,90.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saewZCFuJufQZQJjEl5fA2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Pershing Road at Gillham Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0815004,-94.5786313,3a,75y,174.33h,95.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4A0-B7bqjMhAhIOs9eWwsA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Meyer Boulevard at the Paseo (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.012321,-94.5683318,3a,75y,30.1h,71.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK3v41e95-lk9n9_ScfDApw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) (absolute traffic chaos!)
Also in KC: Meyer Boulevard at Swope Parkway (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0072713,-94.5428251,3a,75y,66h,93.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Y38YKuo4_Ft0LjPoPSNkw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) (How does THIS not have a light? It's at the entrance to Swope Park, and it's a huge intersection!)
Imagine the chaos that would ensue if the 43rd St stop sign were somehow knocked down. Also, for the Pershing Rd example, I think that is the lowest-speed road I have seen a merge sign on (might also be the lowest-mounted one I've seen too). And that Meyer Blvd intersection gives me chills.
One intersection I can think of that needs to be signalized is Saw Mill River Parkway Exit 39 and NY 117. Although it's already close to another traffic signal, drivers taking a busy parkway exit should not have to regularly make a left turn across four lanes of traffic with no protection, especially considering how little queueing area there is.
https://goo.gl/maps/j7QgrTEhi3AWTdA67
overland and us-287, nw of fort collins. i've posted about this intersection before. 287 is a super-2, overland is a 2-lane county road. 287 has 65 mph speed limit, and limited sight distance at this intersection. from nb overland, turning highway north (compass west), you're immediately in the passing lane. turning highway south (compass east), a short merge lane (really short because it goes to a bridge that cdot didn't want to widen)
cars will shoot the gap here all the time, and are frequently unaware that large vehicles are approaching at ludicrous speed.
from highway north, to turn sb onto overland, you turn out of the passing lane. there's not left turn lane.
this intersection is begging for a light. they've reconfigured it many times and people keep dying there.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 24, 2021, 01:57:56 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on March 24, 2021, 12:33:25 AM
I can think of some right here in my city of Kansas City, MO - as they stand now (that is, merges either controlled only by stop signs or completely uncontrolled), they seem ripe for head-on collisions.
43rd Street at Westport Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0497534,-94.598371,3a,75y,299.4h,90.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saewZCFuJufQZQJjEl5fA2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Pershing Road at Gillham Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0815004,-94.5786313,3a,75y,174.33h,95.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4A0-B7bqjMhAhIOs9eWwsA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Meyer Boulevard at the Paseo (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.012321,-94.5683318,3a,75y,30.1h,71.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK3v41e95-lk9n9_ScfDApw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) (absolute traffic chaos!)
Also in KC: Meyer Boulevard at Swope Parkway (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0072713,-94.5428251,3a,75y,66h,93.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Y38YKuo4_Ft0LjPoPSNkw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) (How does THIS not have a light? It's at the entrance to Swope Park, and it's a huge intersection!)
Imagine the chaos that would ensue if the 43rd St stop sign were somehow knocked down. Also, for the Pershing Rd example, I think that is the lowest-speed road I have seen a merge sign on (might also be the lowest-mounted one I've seen too). And that Meyer Blvd intersection gives me chills.
One intersection I can think of that needs to be signalized is Saw Mill River Parkway Exit 39 and NY 117. Although it's already close to another traffic signal, drivers taking a busy parkway exit should not have to regularly make a left turn across four lanes of traffic with no protection, especially considering how little queueing area there is.
https://goo.gl/maps/j7QgrTEhi3AWTdA67
For the 43rd street example, I don't think a signal is needed. What is needed is making that last block one-way eastbound and forcing westbound 43rd traffic to make a right on Madison and then a left on Westport to continue. (And that rush hour left turn restriction should also be removed.)
Here's a crazy example in Beverly Hills, CA:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0797219,-118.4116234,3a,75y,260.17h,78.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sRasWv6qXW_AP7Zq8efdLDQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DRasWv6qXW_AP7Zq8efdLDQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D185.61006%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: mrsman on March 24, 2021, 06:33:12 PM
Here's a crazy example in Beverly Hills, CA:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0797219,-118.4116234,3a,75y,260.17h,78.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sRasWv6qXW_AP7Zq8efdLDQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DRasWv6qXW_AP7Zq8efdLDQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D185.61006%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
I have seen that intersection in multiple LA-based reality TV shows in those montages between scenes with the upbeat music, and I always wondered where it was. Thanks for finally locating it for me!
Now that I think about it, this looks like a perfect candidate for a roundabout.
Quote from: mrsman on March 24, 2021, 06:33:12 PM
For the 43rd street example, I don't think a signal is needed. What is needed is making that last block one-way eastbound and forcing westbound 43rd traffic to make a right on Madison and then a left on Westport to continue. (And that rush hour left turn restriction should also be removed.)
I'd go with that suggestion. 43rd and Westport is a terrible intersection, and I can say this from IRL experience driving through it and later deciding to avoid it at all costs.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 24, 2021, 10:45:56 PM
Quote from: mrsman on March 24, 2021, 06:33:12 PM
Here's a crazy example in Beverly Hills, CA:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0797219,-118.4116234,3a,75y,260.17h,78.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sRasWv6qXW_AP7Zq8efdLDQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DRasWv6qXW_AP7Zq8efdLDQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D185.61006%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
I have seen that intersection in multiple LA-based reality TV shows in those montages between scenes with the upbeat music, and I always wondered where it was. Thanks for finally locating it for me!
Now that I think about it, this looks like a perfect candidate for a roundabout.
Yes, it is quite famous. A lot of LA scenery shows this part of Beverly Drive with the very tall palm trees and the wide streets as being classic LA. The streets do come together in a pretty geometric fashion, but a pain to drive through. THere are also two other nearby six point intersections (Sunset/Beverly/Crescent and Sunset/Canon/Rodeo) but those are both signalized.
I do like the roundabout idea. A number of sites dealing with LA traffic (like rants on Reddit) have made that suggestion. In fact, I do remember a roundabout pilot from many years ago at that intersection (with cones and police tape). It was certainly better than the controlled chaos* that exists now. I think the roundabout should be revisited as they are now more common in the US than when the pilot was conducted.
* It seems that even the crazy LA drivers know how dangerous this is so surprisingly there aren't too many accidents here. Unlike a standard all-way stop, it is very difficult to remember whose turn it is to go here, since there are so many points to this intersection. Plus, a lot of traffic on Beverly and Canon align themselves as two lanes in each direction since the roads are relatively wider and there are few parked cars (and both streets are two lanes in each direction south of Santa Monica Blvd). Cars tend to go and then slow in the middle as other cars from other directions are also going. Somehow they each negotiate who goes first depending on who reaches the middle first. Fortunatley, there are very few cars along Lomitas, so you almost never have to consider them. Like I said, controlled chaos.
In suburban/exurban/rural areas, I'd prefer roundabouts to signals. Both are much better than four-way (or two-way) stops, though. I can't stand those. This (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1861851,-77.4623333,3a,90y,240.94h,74.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgwWCN49jef7affe6zrLRwQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) would be a supreme location for a roundabout, for example.
Four-way stops are of the devil.
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 10:36:30 AM
Four-way stops are of the devil.
For old tar, main st and cooper st have 4 way stops. They will be signalized once the road widening project begins.
Wow, it took me a while to figure out that Old Tar is the name of a road, and that Main and Cooper are streets in Winterville, NC.
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 10:36:30 AM
Four-way stops are of the devil.
I don't mind them, until I encounter some asshat that doesn't understand the meaning of
first come, first serve.
I just fail to understand how Everyone has to stop, no matter what! is a valid option.
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 02:05:39 PM
I just fail to understand how Everyone has to stop, no matter what! is a valid option.
I've always viewed it as, "You might have to stop sometime, so we'll make you stop every time just in case," which is a theory that makes no sense to me but is, I suppose, consistent with the general theory of never trusting anyone to do what they're supposed to do.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 02:16:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 02:05:39 PM
I just fail to understand how Everyone has to stop, no matter what! is a valid option.
I've always viewed it as, "You might have to stop sometime, so we'll make you stop every time just in case," which is a theory that makes no sense to me but is, I suppose, consistent with the general theory of never trusting anyone to do what they're supposed to do.
Oh, please. We all know 99% of American drivers don't take an all-way stop to mean
actually stop. More like "slow down to 6 or 7 mph and glance to either side as you roll through the intersection". I always stop for this exact reason.
Unless it's a multi-lane four-way stop, with nine cars. Then it's Stop, wait for one or two cars to go through, then wonder who in the world should go next, wait a little bit, start to go, notice two other drivers in the same predicament, stop again, look at each other hopelessly...
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 25, 2021, 02:24:22 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 02:16:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 02:05:39 PM
I just fail to understand how Everyone has to stop, no matter what! is a valid option.
I've always viewed it as, "You might have to stop sometime, so we'll make you stop every time just in case," which is a theory that makes no sense to me but is, I suppose, consistent with the general theory of never trusting anyone to do what they're supposed to do.
Oh, please. We all know 99% of American drivers don't take an all-way stop to mean actually stop. More like "slow down to 6 or 7 mph and glance to either side as you roll through the intersection". I always stop for this exact reason.
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? Why the rude reply?
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 02:31:25 PM
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? Why the rude reply?
Uh, it was a normal reply with a tiny dash of harmless sarcasm for comedic effect. Don't see how it's
rude, but thanks for your concern.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 25, 2021, 02:35:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 02:31:25 PM
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? Why the rude reply?
Uh, it was a normal reply with a tiny dash of harmless sarcasm for comedic effect. Don't see how it's rude, but thanks for your concern.
That's how I took it too. Not particularly rude or anything out of the ordinary.
Maybe I've become desensitized to sarcasm...
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 25, 2021, 02:35:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 02:31:25 PM
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? Why the rude reply?
Uh, it was a normal reply with a tiny dash of harmless sarcasm for comedic effect. Don't see how it's rude, but thanks for your concern.
Uh, no, it wasn't. The "oh, please" was unnecessary and condescending. I'm not kernals12 and you don't need to address me as though I were. If anything, I think your comment about American drivers not actually stopping at all-way stops (a comment I would extend to pretty much any stop sign, for that matter!) just underscores my point that the idea of requiring people to stop every time (which, we can all agree, is what a stop sign does as a matter of law) is a stupid and unnecessary practice most of the time. Not all the time, of course–I'm sure we can all think of intersections where any number of factors (obstructed visibility, high pedestrian traffic, proximity to a school, etc.) might warrant a stop sign, but the American way is to throw up stop signs every time even when it would be perfectly safe to use a yield sign instead. That's the point I was trying to make.
Dude, no harm was intended and it wasn't personal. You don't have to have your guard up, just chill out. ;-)
Help yourselves.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0249/5884/files/valfre_chill_pill_how_to_chill_blog_post_1_1024x1024.jpg)
Hey, as I said, ultimately I think we agree on the overuse of stop signs being silly.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 06:04:52 PM
Hey, as I said, ultimately I think we agree on the overuse of stop signs being silly.
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1221261,-77.1730326,3a,39.9y,35.05h,93.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSYmS6DzACKp1kq59lreDIA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) used to be a 2-way stop. It has been converted to a 4-way stop. When NC-11 gets widened, this intersection will be converted to a superstreet or an interchange that bypasses the town.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 02:46:58 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 25, 2021, 02:35:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 02:31:25 PM
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? Why the rude reply?
Uh, it was a normal reply with a tiny dash of harmless sarcasm for comedic effect. Don't see how it's rude, but thanks for your concern.
Uh, no, it wasn't. The "oh, please" was unnecessary and condescending. I'm not kernals12 and you don't need to address me as though I were. If anything, I think your comment about American drivers not actually stopping at all-way stops (a comment I would extend to pretty much any stop sign, for that matter!) just underscores my point that the idea of requiring people to stop every time (which, we can all agree, is what a stop sign does as a matter of law) is a stupid and unnecessary practice most of the time. Not all the time, of course–I'm sure we can all think of intersections where any number of factors (obstructed visibility, high pedestrian traffic, proximity to a school, etc.) might warrant a stop sign, but the American way is to throw up stop signs every time even when it would be perfectly safe to use a yield sign instead. That's the point I was trying to make.
Especially since the American tendency to throw stop signs everywhere arguably encourages rolling stops in the first place.
Thank you. That's the gist of what I was getting at. Whenever I drive in the UK, the relative lack of stop signs feels like a breath of fresh air.
When this interchange: https://goo.gl/maps/x2v73g16JW2bPuVq8 , was converted from a cloverleaf to a diamond, I found it a bit off-putting that the intersections weren't signalized. There's so much development around it, especially on the north side, that I think signals would likely be justified.
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 02:05:39 PM
I just fail to understand how Everyone has to stop, no matter what! is a valid option.
Is this just saying "Red always means stop"?
Quote from: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 08:37:45 PM
Especially since the American tendency to throw stop signs everywhere arguably encourages rolling stops in the first place.
Yeah but I mean if we instead put Yield (Give way) signs everywhere like a lot of European countries do, it would be even worse because many American drivers just blow through those with a quick glance for conflicting traffic, at least in my experience. Stop signs may not be 100% effective but they're the best option we have ATM.
Quote from: epzik8 on March 26, 2021, 08:19:06 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 02:05:39 PM
I just fail to understand how Everyone has to stop, no matter what! is a valid option.
Is this just saying "Red always means stop"?
There are big red signs warning against hazardous materials from entering the Cumberland Gap Tunnel. You don't stop at those signs.
Yield also doesn't mean stop, except under certain circumstances.
Quote from: Big John on March 26, 2021, 02:43:52 PM
There are big red signs warning against hazardous materials from entering the Cumberland Gap Tunnel. You don't stop at those signs.
Except, of course, if you're carrying hazardous materials. :bigass:
Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
Yield also doesn't mean stop, except under certain circumstances.
Opinions vary, but I see a yield sign as a stop sign that you can run if no one's coming (with the exception of yield signs posted before freeway merge lanes of sufficient length to get up to speed and find a gap).
As I kid I could not understand why there was a yield sign at this T-intersection. Intersections had stop signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/hgzQTds7F1jhJ4KH6
Quote from: DrSmith on March 26, 2021, 05:11:50 PM
As I kid I could not understand why there was a yield sign at this T-intersection. Intersections had stop signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/hgzQTds7F1jhJ4KH6
I only know of one city in my home state that really seems to like using yield signs to control minor intersections when most other cities in the U.S. would probably use stop signs: https://goo.gl/maps/V5jZ2bH2HnAX4PZ29
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 07:36:22 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 06:04:52 PM
Hey, as I said, ultimately I think we agree on the overuse of stop signs being silly.
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1221261,-77.1730326,3a,39.9y,35.05h,93.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSYmS6DzACKp1kq59lreDIA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) used to be a 2-way stop. It has been converted to a 4-way stop. When NC-11 gets widened, this intersection will be converted to a superstreet or an interchange that bypasses the town.
I've driven through that intersection before... it was a nuisance on an otherwise free-flowing 55 mph (in reality, more like 67 - 70 mph) highway without any interruptions for 20+ miles.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 26, 2021, 05:50:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 07:36:22 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 06:04:52 PM
Hey, as I said, ultimately I think we agree on the overuse of stop signs being silly.
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1221261,-77.1730326,3a,39.9y,35.05h,93.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSYmS6DzACKp1kq59lreDIA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) used to be a 2-way stop. It has been converted to a 4-way stop. When NC-11 gets widened, this intersection will be converted to a superstreet or an interchange that bypasses the town.
I've driven through that intersection before... it was a nuisance on an otherwise free-flowing 55 mph (in reality, more like 67 - 70 mph) highway without any interruptions for 20+ miles.
Do you like how they converted it to a 4-way stop?
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 26, 2021, 01:25:24 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 08:37:45 PM
Especially since the American tendency to throw stop signs everywhere arguably encourages rolling stops in the first place.
Yeah but I mean if we instead put Yield (Give way) signs everywhere like a lot of European countries do, it would be even worse because many American drivers just blow through those with a quick glance for conflicting traffic, at least in my experience. Stop signs may not be 100% effective but they're the best option we have ATM.
If you keep designing the roads for the lowest common denominator, you're going to get lowest common denominator drivers. What we really need is a paradigm shift, to have signs mean what they say. Drivers tend to obey signs that are clearly warranted. Once they get used to that, they would be more likely to obey a sign that's warranted but where the reasons why aren't immediately obvious - which would improve safety.
There's a yield sign right where I live, and people just plain ignoring it couldn't be further from the truth. If anything, drivers tend to treat it too much like a stop sign!
Quote from: vdeane on March 26, 2021, 10:24:12 PM
There's a yield sign right where I live, and people just plain ignoring it couldn't be further from the truth. If anything, drivers tend to treat it too much like a stop sign!
That has generally been my experience as well. It's annoying when people slow way down or even stop if it's clear no one is coming - or if the yielding traffic gets their own lane.
Quote from: webny99 on March 26, 2021, 10:41:49 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 26, 2021, 10:24:12 PM
There's a yield sign right where I live, and people just plain ignoring it couldn't be further from the truth. If anything, drivers tend to treat it too much like a stop sign!
That has generally been my experience as well. It's annoying when people slow way down or even stop if it's clear no one is coming - or if the yielding traffic gets their own lane.
Same thing on Evans turning right onto Greenville Blvd. There has been plans to signalize it though.
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 26, 2021, 05:56:08 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 26, 2021, 05:50:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 07:36:22 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 06:04:52 PM
Hey, as I said, ultimately I think we agree on the overuse of stop signs being silly.
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1221261,-77.1730326,3a,39.9y,35.05h,93.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSYmS6DzACKp1kq59lreDIA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) used to be a 2-way stop. It has been converted to a 4-way stop. When NC-11 gets widened, this intersection will be converted to a superstreet or an interchange that bypasses the town.
I've driven through that intersection before... it was a nuisance on an otherwise free-flowing 55 mph (in reality, more like 67 - 70 mph) highway without any interruptions for 20+ miles.
Do you like how they converted it to a 4-way stop?
Take a guess.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 27, 2021, 09:53:52 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 26, 2021, 05:56:08 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 26, 2021, 05:50:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 07:36:22 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 06:04:52 PM
Hey, as I said, ultimately I think we agree on the overuse of stop signs being silly.
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1221261,-77.1730326,3a,39.9y,35.05h,93.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSYmS6DzACKp1kq59lreDIA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) used to be a 2-way stop. It has been converted to a 4-way stop. When NC-11 gets widened, this intersection will be converted to a superstreet or an interchange that bypasses the town.
I've driven through that intersection before... it was a nuisance on an otherwise free-flowing 55 mph (in reality, more like 67 - 70 mph) highway without any interruptions for 20+ miles.
Do you like how they converted it to a 4-way stop?
Take a guess.
Yes? And for this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.669853,-78.2523676,3a,75y,64.18h,87.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQe2ayEPZmQ1Cig5YDPwsaA!2e0!5s20130601T000000!7i13312!8i6656) one they did the same thing. Now they turned it into a roundabout. It's funny how you say "Take a guess.". That makes me laugh! :rofl:
No, I was trying to imply I didn't care for the stop, as it was an interruption along what is otherwise miles of free flowing 55 mph highway.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 27, 2021, 10:10:19 PM
No, I was trying to imply I didn't care for the stop, as it was an interruption along what is otherwise miles of free flowing 55 mph highway.
So what they did was not a smart move from the get-go.
I know it's in a sparsely populated area, but I can't see why this intersection shouldn't be signalized:
https://goo.gl/maps/p1tkprkRZgbyGFZF8
Also, there's this sign a a little down the road from there:
https://goo.gl/maps/Uc2xLmzEGWduhBcq5
This is the first time I've seen that posted on an undivided two-lane road. Do they really want you to move into the oncoming lane of traffic when there's an emergency vehicle stopped on the shoulder?
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 28, 2021, 09:03:37 PM
I know it's in a sparsely populated area, but I can't see why this intersection shouldn't be signalized:
https://goo.gl/maps/p1tkprkRZgbyGFZF8
OK-95 only gets 600 vehicles per day.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 28, 2021, 09:03:37 PM
Also, there's this sign a a little down the road from there:
https://goo.gl/maps/Uc2xLmzEGWduhBcq5
This is the first time I've seen that posted on an undivided two-lane road. Do they really want you to move into the oncoming lane of traffic when there's an emergency vehicle stopped on the shoulder?
Why shouldn't you, if there's clearly no traffic coming the other way? Obviously this won't always be possible, but it's not always possible to change lanes on a four-lane road either.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 09:15:42 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 28, 2021, 09:03:37 PM
Also, there's this sign a a little down the road from there:
https://goo.gl/maps/Uc2xLmzEGWduhBcq5
This is the first time I've seen that posted on an undivided two-lane road. Do they really want you to move into the oncoming lane of traffic when there's an emergency vehicle stopped on the shoulder?
Why shouldn't you, if there's clearly no traffic coming the other way? Obviously this won't always be possible, but it's not always possible to change lanes on a four-lane road either.
In any case, it is always possible to slow down, as the sign says.
This kind of sign is really common on two-lane roads, especially just after crossing a state line.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 09:15:42 PM
OK-95 only gets 600 vehicles per day.
Hm. There were 8 on-road vehicles visible in the GSV, so I assumed the traffic count was high enough to warrant a signal.
Quote from: Scott5114
Why shouldn't you, if there's clearly no traffic coming the other way? Obviously this won't always be possible, but it's not always possible to change lanes on a four-lane road either.
True, but I think if there was oncoming traffic, it would take some good guesswork to determine if you have enough time to move over from the stopped vehicle and return to your lane before getting too close, or if you should slow down and wait instead. Especially considering the high speed involved.
It's not any harder than determining if you can safely pass or not. Besides, it just says "move over". It doesn't say you have to fully enter the opposing lane to do so–my inclination would be to move over enough to straddle the centerline, to give the emergency vehicle a few extra feet of space.
Furthermore, as Oscar points out, since it's at a state line, the intent of the sign is probably simply to inform the driver of a Texas law that may or may not apply in the state the traveler just left (it does in Oklahoma, but that's not any of Texas's business). Thus the driver will hopefully remember it coming into play in a situation where it's more relevant, like the four-lane roads approaching Amarillo.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 09:44:42 PM
It's not any harder than determining if you can safely pass or not. Besides, it just says "move over". It doesn't say you have to fully enter the opposing lane to do so–my inclination would be to move over enough to straddle the centerline, to give the emergency vehicle a few extra feet of space.
Furthermore, as Oscar points out, since it's at a state line, the intent of the sign is probably simply to inform the driver of a Texas law that may or may not apply in the state the traveler just left (it does in Oklahoma, but that's not any of Texas's business). Thus the driver will hopefully remember it coming into play in a situation where it's more relevant, like the four-lane roads approaching Amarillo.
Well it is slightly harder because the two main differences are (a) the vehicle to be passed is stopped instead of moving, and (b) there is a critical decision point, the location of the stopped emergency vehicle (you have to do one thing or the other by the time you reach it); whereas with passing a vehicle you always have the option to just wait until the oncoming vehicle is gone.
I'm not sure about the specifics, but in most states "moving over" is legally defined as vacating the lane closest to or containing the emergency vehicle, at least on highways with more than one lane in a given direction. It may not include simply giving the vehicle a few feet of space, but again, I'm not sure how it applies to roads with only one lane in each direction.
And if that last part is true, doesn't it make much more sense to post it closer to the beginning of the four-laners? :confused:
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 28, 2021, 10:15:40 PM
I'm not sure about the specifics, but in most states "moving over" is legally defined as vacating the lane closest to or containing the emergency vehicle, at least on highways with more than one lane in a given direction. It may not include simply giving the vehicle a few feet of space, but again, I'm not sure how it applies to roads with only one lane in each direction.
And if that last part is true, doesn't it make much more sense to post it closer to the beginning of the four-laners? :confused:
The Texas law as stated applies to two-lane roads too, even if the "move over" option isn't always available for them and "slow down" might sometimes be the only choice.
Additional reminder signs may be appropriate farther away from the state line, but one right at the state line makes sense too.
I've personally been pulled over and gotten a warning for not slowing down or moving over when passing a stopped emergency vehicle on a two-lane road. This was in Illinois, back in 2005 or so. There was an oncoming vehicle, so I couldn't complete a normal lane change to go around at the 55 mph speed limit. I judged that speeding up would be safer than braking at that particular moment, so I sped up to about 62 mph and crept over the yellow line, then got fully back in my lane in time for the oncoming vehicle to pass by.
The officer had just finished up his paperwork and had his radar running, clocked me at 7 mph over the limit, and pulled me over and gave me a written warning.
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 10:49:30 AM
The officer had just finished up his paperwork and had his radar running, clocked me at 7 mph over the limit, and pulled me over and gave me a written warning.
He pulled you over and gave you a warning for trying to ensure his safety and avoid hitting him?
Someone's ungrateful!
He obviously didn't know what was going through my mind. All he knew is that his radar detector beeped for a vehicle that just went past him.
Was the warning for speeding, or did it specifically cite the move over/slow down law?
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 30, 2021, 03:21:19 PM
Was the warning for speeding, or did it specifically cite the move over/slow down law?
Both. Plus a half-missing license plate. In a commercial vehicle.
I was happy to get a warning...
(And he also tried to get me for not having a CDL, but he wasn't aware that a CDL wasn't required for the weight class I was driving.)
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 03:12:12 PM
He obviously didn't know what was going through my mind. All he knew is that his radar detector beeped for a vehicle that just went past him.
Well did you mention to him what WAS going through your mind?
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 30, 2021, 04:22:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 03:12:12 PM
He obviously didn't know what was going through my mind. All he knew is that his radar detector beeped for a vehicle that just went past him.
Well did you mention to him what WAS going through your mind?
My memory is fuzzy, but I think he mentioned the half-missing license plate first. I wasn't really in a position to start arguing things.
Quote from: mrsman on March 25, 2021, 07:01:25 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 24, 2021, 10:45:56 PM
Quote from: mrsman on March 24, 2021, 06:33:12 PM
Here's a crazy example in Beverly Hills, CA:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0797219,-118.4116234,3a,75y,260.17h,78.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sRasWv6qXW_AP7Zq8efdLDQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DRasWv6qXW_AP7Zq8efdLDQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D185.61006%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
I have seen that intersection in multiple LA-based reality TV shows in those montages between scenes with the upbeat music, and I always wondered where it was. Thanks for finally locating it for me!
Now that I think about it, this looks like a perfect candidate for a roundabout.
Yes, it is quite famous. A lot of LA scenery shows this part of Beverly Drive with the very tall palm trees and the wide streets as being classic LA. The streets do come together in a pretty geometric fashion, but a pain to drive through. THere are also two other nearby six point intersections (Sunset/Beverly/Crescent and Sunset/Canon/Rodeo) but those are both signalized.
I do like the roundabout idea. A number of sites dealing with LA traffic (like rants on Reddit) have made that suggestion. In fact, I do remember a roundabout pilot from many years ago at that intersection (with cones and police tape). It was certainly better than the controlled chaos* that exists now. I think the roundabout should be revisited as they are now more common in the US than when the pilot was conducted.
* It seems that even the crazy LA drivers know how dangerous this is so surprisingly there aren't too many accidents here. Unlike a standard all-way stop, it is very difficult to remember whose turn it is to go here, since there are so many points to this intersection. Plus, a lot of traffic on Beverly and Canon align themselves as two lanes in each direction since the roads are relatively wider and there are few parked cars (and both streets are two lanes in each direction south of Santa Monica Blvd). Cars tend to go and then slow in the middle as other cars from other directions are also going. Somehow they each negotiate who goes first depending on who reaches the middle first. Fortunatley, there are very few cars along Lomitas, so you almost never have to consider them. Like I said, controlled chaos.
Quite recently, while doing other road research, I came across this map from 1928.
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~24250~880079:Map-of-Los-Angeles,-California--Cop?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort&qvq=q:los%2Bangeles;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=56&trs=108#
If you look to the left of the red Beverly Hills, you will see the intersection of Canon/Beverly/Lomitas demarked as a traffic circle. Perhaps it was a traffic circle many years ago.
I'm surprised this (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28873.50) one isn't signalized it gets very busy in the morning and evenings and it's a headache to turn left. And right cause people are rushing.
How would two right turn lanes and a superstreet do at this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5721596,-77.4438795,241m/data=!3m1!1e3)intersection? It's very busy and there's a quick lane drop to just turn right. Who can draw a nice configuration?
I'm kind of already talking fictional here but these dangerous intersections warrant a signal.