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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: tolbs17 on March 27, 2021, 02:44:44 PM

Title: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 27, 2021, 02:44:44 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.775183,-78.0612167,3a,44.8y,302.92h,74.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1speuMpfGwEdbWrci9Sq5xuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7755088,-78.0620153,176m/data=!3m1!1e3

I just know these will disappear soon when this part gets upgraded to interstate standards.

I-95 in Rocky Mount has them too.

I think these were kind of risky, and the merge lane is relatively short.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: JoePCool14 on March 27, 2021, 03:08:38 PM
Those don't seem that bad. Looks like there's plenty of room to merge. The striping is odd, but otherwise it's a fine acceleration lane.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: SkyPesos on March 27, 2021, 03:10:52 PM
The triangle gore ending before the two lines touch each other? Ohio does this a lot; go randomly find an interchange that wasn't built or reconstructed in the past 10 years in the state, and there's a good chance the lines for the ramp left shoulder and through lanes right shoulder would end before meeting touch each other.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 27, 2021, 03:11:45 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 27, 2021, 03:08:38 PM
Those don't seem that bad. Looks like there's plenty of room to merge. The striping is odd, but otherwise it's a fine acceleration lane.
I'm guessing cause the speed limit used to be 55 back in the 70s.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 27, 2021, 03:15:03 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 27, 2021, 03:10:52 PM
The triangle gore ending before the two lines touch each other? Ohio does this a lot; go randomly find an interchange in the state, and there's a good chance the lines for the ramp left shoulder and through lanes right shoulder would end before meeting touch each other.
Ew.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4988342,-82.7133682,3a,75y,178.42h,75.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbMhqW9PO_s9FxRHqlVunvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

As I see here, they don't put the dots until the acceleration lane ends.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 27, 2021, 05:01:31 PM
I always liked those in North Carolina. Lets you get over if it's clear.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 27, 2021, 05:05:05 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 27, 2021, 05:01:31 PM
I always liked those in North Carolina. Lets you get over if it's clear.
They stopped making them. Do you think they should continue?
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 06:18:52 PM
1956
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 09:42:07 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 27, 2021, 02:44:44 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.775183,-78.0612167,3a,44.8y,302.92h,74.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1speuMpfGwEdbWrci9Sq5xuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7755088,-78.0620153,176m/data=!3m1!1e3

I just know these will disappear soon when this part gets upgraded to interstate standards.

I-95 in Rocky Mount has them too.

I think these were kind of risky, and the merge lane is relatively short.

Those look like normal merge ramps to me (other than the striping, which may just be a NC thing for all I know).

??
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: tolbs17 on October 24, 2021, 02:34:15 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 09:42:07 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 27, 2021, 02:44:44 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.775183,-78.0612167,3a,44.8y,302.92h,74.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1speuMpfGwEdbWrci9Sq5xuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7755088,-78.0620153,176m/data=!3m1!1e3

I just know these will disappear soon when this part gets upgraded to interstate standards.

I-95 in Rocky Mount has them too.

I think these were kind of risky, and the merge lane is relatively short.

Those look like normal merge ramps to me (other than the striping, which may just be a NC thing for all I know).

??
Yeah but it always makes me think that an extra lane adds up.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: Urban Prairie Schooner on October 28, 2021, 01:54:35 PM
It could always be worse. A lot worse.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4494013,-91.1806728,3a,28.6y,176.39h,84.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0E0zaIkJ7XKQRgP57GScGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: thspfc on October 28, 2021, 02:05:12 PM
On newer WI freeways the double white lines at merge points take extremely long to come together, to the point where I see a lot of people disregard them completely. I would rather they be like the ones in the OP.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: RobbieL2415 on October 28, 2021, 02:23:38 PM
On-ramps would still work if people actually got up to speed on them.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: US20IL64 on October 28, 2021, 04:23:21 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 28, 2021, 02:23:38 PM
On-ramps would still work if people actually got up to speed on them.

There are still many "fraidy-cats" that learned to drive in the 55 era, and are timid of acceleration forces,  :crazy:
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: Bruce on October 28, 2021, 06:59:04 PM
Meanwhile there's this merge I deal with every so often: https://goo.gl/maps/cf6gUDADZpp5ZMhX7

Traffic bombs down the hill and cuts off cars coming from the much busier SR 204, who are required to yield but sometimes don't. I've seen some nasty wrecks here.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: Ned Weasel on October 28, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
A dashed line extension of the channelizing line from the on-ramp used to be in the MUTCD for tapered merges.  However, the 2009 edition omits the dashed line extension, but it does include the dotted line extension of the channelizing line from the mainline.  See 3B-9, Drawing C.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: ran4sh on October 29, 2021, 10:16:35 AM
Quote from: Ned Weasel on October 28, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
A dashed line extension of the channelizing line from the on-ramp used to be in the MUTCD for tapered merges.  However, the 2009 edition omits the dashed line extension, but it does include the dotted line extension of the channelizing line from the mainline.  See 3B-9, Drawing C.

That seems to explain why Georgia is restriping its tapered merges
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: rower155 on October 29, 2021, 01:21:37 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 27, 2021, 02:44:44 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.775183,-78.0612167,3a,44.8y,302.92h,74.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1speuMpfGwEdbWrci9Sq5xuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7755088,-78.0620153,176m/data=!3m1!1e3

I just know these will disappear soon when this part gets upgraded to interstate standards.

I-95 in Rocky Mount has them too.

I think these were kind of risky, and the merge lane is relatively short.

This one was built per the NCDOT Roadway Design Manual Chapter 8-11. It has the full 1200' taper. I don't know how often they still use it vs the parallel entrance, but the angular entrance is still in the current manual as an option.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 29, 2021, 06:22:40 PM
The NJ Turnpike used this type design...without the skip lines as shown in Tolbs' examples...in their Interchange 6 - 9 widening project from 2009-2014.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: NoGoodNamesAvailable on October 29, 2021, 07:26:30 PM
Tapered entrance lanes are just as safe as parallel if you know how to drive. But of course most Americans don't.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: ran4sh on October 29, 2021, 10:31:59 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on October 29, 2021, 07:26:30 PM
Tapered entrance lanes are just as safe as parallel if you know how to drive. But of course most Americans don't.

I read somewhere that tapered is sometimes preferred because it more accurately reflects how drivers usually merge onto freeways. I know that I change lanes at the dashed line if I'm already moving at freeway speed
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: Revive 755 on October 29, 2021, 10:41:39 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on October 29, 2021, 07:26:30 PM
Tapered entrance lanes are just as safe as parallel if you know how to drive. But of course most Americans don't.

Tapered merges - particularly those resembling Figure 3B-9 Case B in the 2009 MUTCD - don't work well when one is behind a driver who refuses to use the accelerator until after merging.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: interstatefan990 on October 29, 2021, 11:11:54 PM
I also don't like when there's a modern parallel acceleration lane but the solid, thick white line doesn't become dotted until the very end, as if you're supposed to sit there waiting when there's a perfectly open gap for you to move in.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 04:50:50 AM
This almost looks like two lanes to the right and yet it's just one.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0794977,-78.7888633,3a,75y,207.07h,63.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJr928ttneA4jGR525_YHDg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJr928ttneA4jGR525_YHDg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D315.401%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: SkyPesos on October 30, 2021, 02:55:02 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 27, 2021, 03:15:03 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 27, 2021, 03:10:52 PM
The triangle gore ending before the two lines touch each other? Ohio does this a lot; go randomly find an interchange in the state, and there's a good chance the lines for the ramp left shoulder and through lanes right shoulder would end before meeting touch each other.
Ew.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4988342,-82.7133682,3a,75y,178.42h,75.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbMhqW9PO_s9FxRHqlVunvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

As I see here, they don't put the dots until the acceleration lane ends.
That's pretty common. Most of the time when a lane ends, It's just blank, rather than dots.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 30, 2021, 04:06:26 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 04:50:50 AM
This almost looks like two lanes to the right and yet it's just one.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0794977,-78.7888633,3a,75y,207.07h,63.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJr928ttneA4jGR525_YHDg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJr928ttneA4jGR525_YHDg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D315.401%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

With a screenshot pic, yes it looks like that. But traffic's going by at 70 mph here, not standing still. All you need to do is go back several hundred feet and look at it again and it's pretty clear-cut what's happening.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 09:42:59 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 30, 2021, 04:06:26 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 04:50:50 AM
This almost looks like two lanes to the right and yet it's just one.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0794977,-78.7888633,3a,75y,207.07h,63.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJr928ttneA4jGR525_YHDg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJr928ttneA4jGR525_YHDg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D315.401%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

With a screenshot pic, yes it looks like that. But traffic's going by at 70 mph here, not standing still. All you need to do is go back several hundred feet and look at it again and it's pretty clear-cut what's happening.
When it was repaved, they used the dots it used to be the broken lines.
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 09:58:02 PM
Over here, they changed it from this  (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.9704121,-77.8305954,3a,75y,113.13h,84.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stP_fPq5VS1MI6meKkgsO-g!2e0!5s20090401T000000!7i3328!8i1664)design to this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.970448,-77.8305781,3a,75y,113.13h,84.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stM0jrFAM5CQVHXi_0N2hIw!2e0!5s20210601T000000!7i16384!8i8192) design. Is it really better?
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: tolbs17 on January 13, 2022, 09:15:23 PM
For all I know outside of North Carolina, many states don't add a dotted line to know that the lane is ending.

Like this for example.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.765663,-77.480686,3a,43.7y,274.97h,69.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6bosqr-lBSujp6nIeyMnhw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

New Jersey started doing it recently if you compare the slider on the Street View.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6533093,-74.4486254,3a,75y,237.8h,78.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sjyKITLOmaXaoon9H9yYzYA!2e0!5s20211201T000000!7i16384!8i8192

Delaware still doesn't do it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6470649,-75.7529825,3a,75y,304.09h,81.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sASBchNsf-ujYCgV8eAQjyA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DASBchNsf-ujYCgV8eAQjyA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D74.59763%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Same with Maryland.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3615704,-76.5057466,3a,57.6y,104.83h,79.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6kc5FR10AEVRYYBok1DdJA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: Dirt Roads on January 13, 2022, 09:33:33 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 13, 2022, 09:15:23 PM
For all I know outside of North Carolina, many states don't add a dotted line to know that the lane is ending.

Like this for example.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.765663,-77.480686,3a,43.7y,274.97h,69.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6bosqr-lBSujp6nIeyMnhw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Actually, VDOT always does a dashed line at the end of a ramp or merge lane.  Notice carefully, the mainline lanes have been recently paved in this streetview, but the onramp did not get repaved (probably not warranted due to light use).  For some reason, the lane markings between the right lane and the onramp come to an abrupt end at the south end of the bridge over Poplar Swamp (creek).  It looks like the lane marking subcontract did not include the bridge itself, but that wouldn't explain why the "paint crew" came to an abrupt halt at the south end of the bridge (not continuing to finish that particular lane marking).
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: Tom958 on January 13, 2022, 10:14:42 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 09:58:02 PM
Over here, they changed it from this  (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.9704121,-77.8305954,3a,75y,113.13h,84.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stP_fPq5VS1MI6meKkgsO-g!2e0!5s20090401T000000!7i3328!8i1664)design to this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.970448,-77.8305781,3a,75y,113.13h,84.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stM0jrFAM5CQVHXi_0N2hIw!2e0!5s20210601T000000!7i16384!8i8192) design. Is it really better?

The first is a taper, the second a parallel. I've read that the parallel is safer, and NC and Wisconsin have changed to it. Perhaps other states have as well.

The drawback to changing is that it takes a l-o-o-o-o-g time. NC started in the eighties (I first noticed it when I-85 in Charlotte was reconstructed), and they're still nowhere near finished. I'm glad that Georgia has stuck with the taper.

Actually, though, some recent GDOT project renderings have shown parallel-type onramp terminals.  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Since when do they still make these merge ramps?
Post by: tolbs17 on January 14, 2022, 07:17:14 AM
Quote from: Tom958 on January 13, 2022, 10:14:42 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 30, 2021, 09:58:02 PM
Over here, they changed it from this  (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.9704121,-77.8305954,3a,75y,113.13h,84.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stP_fPq5VS1MI6meKkgsO-g!2e0!5s20090401T000000!7i3328!8i1664)design to this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.970448,-77.8305781,3a,75y,113.13h,84.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stM0jrFAM5CQVHXi_0N2hIw!2e0!5s20210601T000000!7i16384!8i8192) design. Is it really better?

The first is a taper, the second a parallel. I've read that the parallel is safer, and NC and Wisconsin have changed to it. Perhaps other states have as well.

The drawback to changing is that it takes a l-o-o-o-o-g time. NC started in the eighties (I first noticed it when I-85 in Charlotte was reconstructed), and they're still nowhere near finished. I'm glad that Georgia has stuck with the taper.

Actually, though, some recent GDOT project renderings have shown parallel-type onramp terminals.  :hmmm:
Tapered merge on-ramps are found on pretty much all freeways here in North Carolina prior to the 1990s.