On April 15, Mercedes will be unveiling a new car meant to do battle with the Tesla Model S. It's called the EQS, and just like its gasoline powered sister, the S Class, it will be very innovative. They say it will have a maximum range of 478 miles (https://www.motor1.com/news/498063/mercedes-eqs-electric-range-extended/) (on the optimistic European cycle, probably about 400 miles on the more realistic EPA cycle). That makes it probably the first electric car that has a cruising range comparable to gasoline. One thing that helps is the very aerodynamic shape with a drag coefficient of just .2 (https://insideevs.com/news/497543/mercedes-benz-eqs-4-mi-kwh/), the lowest for any production car. That will also help wind noise, a bonus for both passengers and the people who live near freeways.
I am sure that, just like the S class, the EQS will be a very popular choice for titans of industry and heads of state. It will help further mainstream the electric car. It's a sign that the age of internal combustion is rapidly coming to a close, just like the age of steam before it.
I thought this was real at first. Nice work.
Problem is that this is Mercedes, a high end luxury brand. That 400 mile range won't be a big deal until it is a regular thing in EVs that are in more of an entry level price range.
Quote from: 1 on April 01, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
I thought this was real at first. Nice work.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35957077/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-interior-revealed/
This is from five days ago, so it's no 4/1 joke. Honestly looks like an amazing vehicle.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 01, 2021, 09:57:14 AM
Problem is that this is Mercedes, a high end luxury brand. That 400 mile range won't be a big deal until it is a regular thing in EVs that are in more of an entry level price range.
The technology demonstrated in high end luxury sedans tends to trickle down.
Quote from: SectorZ on April 01, 2021, 10:14:52 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 01, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
I thought this was real at first. Nice work.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35957077/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-interior-revealed/
This is from five days ago, so it's no 4/1 joke. Honestly looks like an amazing vehicle.
There is even a Wikipedia page to go along with it. I searched around for an MSRP but with no luck.
Quote from: kernals12 on April 01, 2021, 10:19:37 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 01, 2021, 09:57:14 AM
Problem is that this is Mercedes, a high end luxury brand. That 400 mile range won't be a big deal until it is a regular thing in EVs that are in more of an entry level price range.
The technology demonstrated in high end luxury sedans tends to trickle down.
Okay, but it isn't anything exciting when the car is probably 100k plus. I would hope my car had all that high technology it I was paying that much. It isn't a game changer to until that range is available for someone looking to replace their Toyota Corolla.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 01, 2021, 10:20:27 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 01, 2021, 10:14:52 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 01, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
I thought this was real at first. Nice work.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35957077/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-interior-revealed/
This is from five days ago, so it's no 4/1 joke. Honestly looks like an amazing vehicle.
There is even a Wikipedia page to go along with it. I searched around for an MSRP but with no luck.
It will definitely be 6 digits.
^
Given that the S Class starts at 109k, this EV will definitely be over that.
Quote from: GaryV on April 01, 2021, 10:25:50 AM
^
Given that the S Class starts at 109k, this EV will definitely be over that.
The Mercedes website says $94,000
Quote from: kernals12 on April 01, 2021, 10:29:25 AM
Quote from: GaryV on April 01, 2021, 10:25:50 AM
^
Given that the S Class starts at 109k, this EV will definitely be over that.
The Mercedes website says $94,000
Car and Driver now says $110,850. Whatever. The EV will definitely be over $100k.
Even oil barons and Arab princes won't be able to resist the silence of an electric S class.
Quote from: kernals12 on April 01, 2021, 10:39:41 AM
Even oil barons and Arab princes won't be able to resist the silence of an electric S class.
Oil barons? What is this 1911?
GM will be selling an electric Chevy Silverado with 400 miles of range by 2023 or 2024
www.caranddriver.com/news/amp36038778/chevy-silverado-electric-pickup-confirmed/
Mind you, it probably won't be much cheaper than this Mercedes
The high price of battery powered cars in only half of the really sad economic reality. When someone buys a traditionally powered car, he expects there to be residual value. Everyone is different, from people who trade every couple of years to people that keep cars for decades, but the most basic expectation is of residual value. He pays $X and gets some %age of that back as a trade. Thus the next car will actually not cost full price, but rather only the "difference" between that and the trade-in's residual value.
However, the reality of batteries is quite different. While a well built and well maintained traditional car can be expected to last decades, the battery, representing the bulk of the overall value, will only last a few years.
Thus, these products are only for those so rich that they can buy a new car "from scratch" every time. No real application to common folk.
Quote from: SP Cook on April 06, 2021, 03:13:02 PM
The high price of battery powered cars in only half of the really sad economic reality. When someone buys a traditionally powered car, he expects there to be residual value. Everyone is different, from people who trade every couple of years to people that keep cars for decades, but the most basic expectation is of residual value. He pays $X and gets some %age of that back as a trade. Thus the next car will actually not cost full price, but rather only the "difference" between that and the trade-in's residual value.
However, the reality of batteries is quite different. While a well built and well maintained traditional car can be expected to last decades, the battery, representing the bulk of the overall value, will only last a few years.
Thus, these products are only for those so rich that they can buy a new car "from scratch" every time. No real application to common folk.
The fact that the battery motor needs to be replaced after a certain amount of time/or miles certainly has been cost prohibitive thus far. I don't have a lot of data on how much the price has declined for replacement batteries but it has been considerable. This is even an issue on hybrid cars like the Prius to a degree.
Something that intrigues me is the thought about how/if current electric vehicles will be future collector cars? I just don't see the amount of OEM and after market parts being available to make that kind of thing realistic like it has been for cars with combustion engines.
Road & Track posted an article about the EQS. (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36133947/mercedes-benz-eqs-is-an-awkward-but-advanced-electric-flagship/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_rdt&utm_medium=email&date=041621&utm_campaign=nl23536910&utm_term=AAA%20--%20High%20Minus%20Dormant%20and%2090%20Day%20Non%20Openers)
If it can in fact go over 400 miles on a charge, as discussed in the article, that would be a very big deal. The thing that gives me pause about EVs so far is precisely their shorter range compared to gas- or diesel-powered vehicles and the nuisance that poses on longer trips. Put differently, most EVs so far are fantastic cars for commuting and local driving, but if I'm going to spend the kind of money the automakers are asking for EVs, I want it to be my primary car that I can use for everything, including longer trips. The idea of having to stop for 45 minutes to an hour every three or four hours (210 to 280 miles) to charge the battery is a non-starter for me. Right now, depending on which car I'm driving, I can go 450 to 550 miles on a tank of gas, then make a combined gas and lunch stop, then get back on the road. While my current gas and lunch stop will usually be less than 45 minutes to an hour, extending it to that amount of time wouldn't be a big problem provided the charging station is in a good location.
I'm not really impressed with the styling. It looks too much like a Hyundai Sonata.
Quote from: kernals12 on April 16, 2021, 01:49:12 PM
I'm not really impressed with the styling. It looks too much like a Hyundai Sonata.
I found myself wondering about the practicality of the entire dashboard being a screen. That seems like a way to use more battery power than is really needed. Nice visual, no doubt, but likely unnecessary on the whole.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 16, 2021, 11:35:55 AM
Road & Track posted an article about the EQS. (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36133947/mercedes-benz-eqs-is-an-awkward-but-advanced-electric-flagship/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_rdt&utm_medium=email&date=041621&utm_campaign=nl23536910&utm_term=AAA%20--%20High%20Minus%20Dormant%20and%2090%20Day%20Non%20Openers)
Quote from: kernals12 on April 16, 2021, 01:49:12 PM
I'm not really impressed with the styling. It looks too much like a Hyundai Sonata.
One comment seems to agree with you about that.
Quote from: ton9583
Take away the 3 point star, it can be any car. Nothing said MB about the design.
EV's do not have the range needed for Western US driving. Cities can be 400 or more miles apart over here.
The needed spec: 1500 miles plus 10 minute recharge at a minimum with a price point of $20K to $25K. Wake me up when this is achieved.
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on April 17, 2021, 09:42:15 AM
EV's do not have the range needed for Western US driving. Cities can be 400 or more miles apart over here.
The needed spec: 1500 miles plus 10 minute recharge at a minimum with a price point of $20K to $25K. Wake me up when this is achieved.
Rick
Wait what? Gasoline cars don't nearly do 1500 miles on a tank.
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 12:11:12 PM
Wait what? Gasoline cars don't nearly do 1500 miles on a tank.
No, but they can be refilled (recharged) in about 10 minutes literally anywhere in the world from a standard device that exists well within the range of the vehicles, many dozens of times over. Electric cars, not so much. LOOOOOOOOOOOONG charging times, a extremely limited number of charging devices, and these are not even to a industry standard, meaning an even more extremely limited number that fit a particular brand of car.
Quote from: SP Cook on April 17, 2021, 12:48:44 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 12:11:12 PM
Wait what? Gasoline cars don't nearly do 1500 miles on a tank.
No, but they can be refilled (recharged) in about 10 minutes literally anywhere in the world from a standard device that exists well within the range of the vehicles, many dozens of times over. Electric cars, not so much. LOOOOOOOOOOOONG charging times, a extremely limited number of charging devices, and these are not even to a industry standard, meaning an even more extremely limited number that fit a particular brand of car.
It still seems the idea of 1500 miles per charge AND a ten minute charge is a bit extreme. It would be awesome, but not a minimum requirement for me to buy a car.
I'd be happy with 300 miles per charge with charges taking as long as a fillup (a few minutes).
Per Car and Driver, the Hyperscreen is an option (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36101351/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-revealed/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=041721&utm_campaign=nl23438605) and if you skip that, you get a more conventional center screen about the size of an iPad Pro (the largest iPad).
Regarding the exterior styling, one thing to consider with any EV is coefficient of drag being a major consideration.
I'm got a Toyota Solara vibe from how the EQS looked. It's weird to see the whole four door coupe/CLS thing incorporated into an otherwise boring looking front facade.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 01:40:08 PM
I'm got a Toyota Solara vibe from how the EQS looked. It's weird to see the whole four door coupe/CLS thing incorporated into an otherwise boring looking front facade.
It's not really a 4 door coupe. It's more like the cab forward design Chrysler pioneered in the 90s.
(https://i.imgur.com/fyLv9jD.jpg)
Also, I think EQS concept, with its wide shoulders and flat hood, was very good looking
(https://i.imgur.com/lNHBaxP.jpg)
Quote from: Rothman on April 17, 2021, 01:05:23 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 17, 2021, 12:48:44 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 12:11:12 PM
Wait what? Gasoline cars don't nearly do 1500 miles on a tank.
No, but they can be refilled (recharged) in about 10 minutes literally anywhere in the world from a standard device that exists well within the range of the vehicles, many dozens of times over. Electric cars, not so much. LOOOOOOOOOOOONG charging times, a extremely limited number of charging devices, and these are not even to a industry standard, meaning an even more extremely limited number that fit a particular brand of car.
It still seems the idea of 1500 miles per charge AND a ten minute charge is a bit extreme. It would be awesome, but not a minimum requirement for me to buy a car.
I'd be happy with 300 miles per charge with charges taking as long as a fillup (a few minutes).
Also, you can plug in your electric car at home and it will be fully charged the next morning. Most people would find it very inconvenient to go to a gas station every day.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 01:26:40 PM
Per Car and Driver, the Hyperscreen is an option (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36101351/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-revealed/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=041721&utm_campaign=nl23438605) and if you skip that, you get a more conventional center screen about the size of an iPad Pro (the largest iPad).
Regarding the exterior styling, one thing to consider with any EV is coefficient of drag being a major consideration.
But the Lucid Air and Tesla Model S are only slightly less aerodynamic but are way better looking.
Also, I wonder if this is the beginning of a great aerodynamic arms race like the one the Ford Taurus started in 1986. We might see enclosed wheel arches and, if the government allows it, cameras replacing sideview mirrors.
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 01:26:40 PM
Per Car and Driver, the Hyperscreen is an option (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36101351/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-revealed/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=041721&utm_campaign=nl23438605) and if you skip that, you get a more conventional center screen about the size of an iPad Pro (the largest iPad).
Regarding the exterior styling, one thing to consider with any EV is coefficient of drag being a major consideration.
But the Lucid Air and Tesla Model S are only slightly less aerodynamic but are way better looking.
Also, I wonder if this is the beginning of a great aerodynamic arms race like the one the Ford Taurus started in 1986. We might see enclosed wheel arches and, if the government allows it, cameras replacing sideview mirrors.
Hopefully not, cars got incredibly boring looking during the jelly bean era in styling. If I recall correctly Tesla was actually pushing NHSTA to approve cameras in place of mirrors on the front doors.
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 01:26:40 PM
Per Car and Driver, the Hyperscreen is an option (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36101351/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-revealed/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=041721&utm_campaign=nl23438605) and if you skip that, you get a more conventional center screen about the size of an iPad Pro (the largest iPad).
Regarding the exterior styling, one thing to consider with any EV is coefficient of drag being a major consideration.
But the Lucid Air and Tesla Model S are only slightly less aerodynamic but are way better looking.
....
I'm not familiar with the Lucid Air, but I do agree with you about the Tesla being a nicer-looking car than the Mercedes.
Irrelevant for me anyway. I can't afford either, and I'm sure the Mercedes will run more than the Tesla. I'm quite happy with my current cars anyway (and you can't get an EV with a manual transmission, as far as I know).
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 01:26:40 PM
Per Car and Driver, the Hyperscreen is an option (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36101351/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-revealed/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=041721&utm_campaign=nl23438605) and if you skip that, you get a more conventional center screen about the size of an iPad Pro (the largest iPad).
Regarding the exterior styling, one thing to consider with any EV is coefficient of drag being a major consideration.
But the Lucid Air and Tesla Model S are only slightly less aerodynamic but are way better looking.
....
I'm not familiar with the Lucid Air, but I do agree with you about the Tesla being a nicer-looking car than the Mercedes.
Irrelevant for me anyway. I can't afford either, and I'm sure the Mercedes will run more than the Tesla. I'm quite happy with my current cars anyway (and you can't get an EV with a manual transmission, as far as I know).
You can't get an EV with any sort of transmission.
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 08:57:00 PM
You can't get an EV with any sort of transmission.
The Porsche Taycan technically has a 2-speed automatic mounted in the rear axle:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a30379498/porsche-taycan-two-speed-transmission-explained/
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 08:57:00 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 01:26:40 PM
Per Car and Driver, the Hyperscreen is an option (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36101351/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-revealed/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=041721&utm_campaign=nl23438605) and if you skip that, you get a more conventional center screen about the size of an iPad Pro (the largest iPad).
Regarding the exterior styling, one thing to consider with any EV is coefficient of drag being a major consideration.
But the Lucid Air and Tesla Model S are only slightly less aerodynamic but are way better looking.
....
I'm not familiar with the Lucid Air, but I do agree with you about the Tesla being a nicer-looking car than the Mercedes.
Irrelevant for me anyway. I can't afford either, and I'm sure the Mercedes will run more than the Tesla. I'm quite happy with my current cars anyway (and you can't get an EV with a manual transmission, as far as I know).
You can't get an EV with any sort of transmission.
If that were true, you'd be agreeing with me: you can't get an EV with a manual transmission.
Technically, the auto industry views what Teslas have as a one-speed "direct drive" transmission.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 18, 2021, 08:28:33 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 08:57:00 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on April 17, 2021, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 01:26:40 PM
Per Car and Driver, the Hyperscreen is an option (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36101351/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-revealed/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=041721&utm_campaign=nl23438605) and if you skip that, you get a more conventional center screen about the size of an iPad Pro (the largest iPad).
Regarding the exterior styling, one thing to consider with any EV is coefficient of drag being a major consideration.
But the Lucid Air and Tesla Model S are only slightly less aerodynamic but are way better looking.
....
I'm not familiar with the Lucid Air, but I do agree with you about the Tesla being a nicer-looking car than the Mercedes.
Irrelevant for me anyway. I can't afford either, and I'm sure the Mercedes will run more than the Tesla. I'm quite happy with my current cars anyway (and you can't get an EV with a manual transmission, as far as I know).
You can't get an EV with any sort of transmission.
If that were true, you'd be agreeing with me: you can't get an EV with a manual transmission.
Technically, the auto industry views what Teslas have as a one-speed "direct drive" transmission.
The Taycan has a second gear likely due to the buying demographics of Porsche tending to have people who actually race. So that being the case top speed would be a concern for some Taycan buyers, I'm to understand it is around 150 MPH. I suspect as time goes on performance EVs will have more gears to help them hit 200 MPH plus. I believe most Tesla Models (including the old Roadster) topped out at about 120 MPH.