Just been doing some research and reading on US 30 and didn't know it was so long ! only been on it once a while back on a trip to Wapakoneta OH to Fort Wayne IN.
2-digit routes ending in 0 are meant to be the major east-west routes, so all of them are either very long (such as 30) or used to be (such as 10).
Unlike the Interstate system (which uses 5), the major two-digit north-south US routes end in 1, although there are a decent number of routes that travel the entire length of the US from Canada to Mexico or the Gulf Coast and end in a different digit.
I've been on US-30 in Iowa, Nebraska, and Wyoming.
Quote from: doglover44 on April 07, 2021, 11:53:00 AM
Just been doing some research and reading on US 30 and didn't know it was so long ! only been on it once a while back on a trip to Wapakoneta OH to Fort Wayne IN.
It's the 3rd longest US route in the country. Not sure how much I've been on it, probably just some one-off sections in the Midwest and of course Breezewood.
As said above, the x0 are generally the cross country US routes, at least historically before the interstates. There are some exceptions to this rule, like 10 ends at Detroit for its eastern terminus, and 90 ends just east of El Paso for its western terminus. 60 was originally planned as another one of the non transcon x0 US routes, with a Los Angeles-Chicago routing before it got a new routing and the LA-Chicago was numbered as 66. On the flipside, US 6 isn't an x0, but is a transcon route, after several extensions westward from it's first western terminus at Erie, PA.
For N-S routes, x1 routes are supposedly the major ones, but I don't buy into that. For example, US 19, 23, 25 and 27 are longer and seem more important than US 21 to me. Specifically US 25, where I-75 (an x5 interstate) was chosen to parallel it north of Knoxville in the interstates era. Same with 99 over 101 on the west coast, with I-5 replacing most of US 99. I explained a lot of this in another thread already.
Quote from: 1 on April 07, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Unlike the Interstate system (which uses 5), the major two-digit north-south US routes end in 1, although there are a decent number of routes that travel the entire length of the US from Canada to Mexico or the Gulf Coast and end in a different digit.
Save for US-21 and US-91, most of which were eliminated when I-7 and I-15, respectively, were completed. They are shadows of their former selves.
Quote from: abqtraveler on April 08, 2021, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 07, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Unlike the Interstate system (which uses 5), the major two-digit north-south US routes end in 1, although there are a decent number of routes that travel the entire length of the US from Canada to Mexico or the Gulf Coast and end in a different digit.
Save for US-21 and US-91, most of which were eliminated when I-77 and I-15, respectively, were completed. They are shadows of their former selves.
FTFY
Not to mention the truncation of several x0 routes due to interstate expansion out west.
Quote from: I-55 on April 08, 2021, 12:15:16 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on April 08, 2021, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 07, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Unlike the Interstate system (which uses 5), the major two-digit north-south US routes end in 1, although there are a decent number of routes that travel the entire length of the US from Canada to Mexico or the Gulf Coast and end in a different digit.
Save for US-21 and US-91, most of which were eliminated when I-77 and I-15, respectively, were completed. They are shadows of their former selves.
FTFY
Not to mention the truncation of several x0 routes due to interstate expansion out west.
Yep, US Routes 10, 40, 60, 70, and 80 used to be a lot longer. US-50 also got a little bit shorter with its elimination west of Sacramento.
US 30 seems like the exception here, as it haven't been truncated to a point east of its lengthy interstate concurrencies with I-84 and I-86 ye, probably to McCammon, ID. US 20 is mostly independent in Oregon and Idaho, so I can still see it existing to the west coast.
List of E-W US routes that entered one of the west coast states (CA, OR, WA), with former routes in strikethrough. Not including routes like 28 and 48 that got decommissioned before the interstates era:
2, 6, 10, 12, 20, 26, 30, 40, 50, 60, 66, 70, 80
So 4/7 of the existing ones aren't x0's.
I grew up less than 10 miles from US 30
I've been on the entirety of US 30 from Clinton, IA, to Canton, OH (not all in one trip).
Have been on the infamous Breezewood segment.
Have been on some of the mileage concurrent with I-80 in Wyoming
Have been on the segment west of I-5 to the western end
I know we have talked about the upgrades across the 4 states.There is an entire thread on Ohio. Also may have been for Indiana.
Currently for both Illinois and Iowa it looks like some passing lanes ...maybe. It's been in Iowa notes and various Illinois threads.
Illinois has remembered it many times . There was even toll 30 on the East West.
I'm my 1934 map it follows the current route to Sterling area the followed IL 38 to the Aurora area then it went close to current to Indiana
I am still fascinated by the shorter Tollway spur on page 5 of Illinois Notes.
so if we had to pick the 10 most "major" EW & NS US routes what would you go with? 11 if you count 101.
Quote from: texaskdog on April 08, 2021, 02:39:08 PM
so if we had to pick the 10 most "major" EW & NS US routes what would you go with? 11 if you count 101.
This is a general highway question and should be asked there.
I find it interesting that US 30 always bypassed the Chicago area, rather than go through it like the other mainline US Highways did (save US 6 & 45). That being said, out west, I could have easily seen US 30 being truncated to a western terminus somewhere in Nebraska, since it parallels Interstate 80 (and later Interstate 84) from Grand Island, Nebraska to Portland Oregon. Like US 90, US 30 was spared the fate of other long US Highways being greatly reduced in length or decommissioned entirely by the Interstate System.
Quote from: skluth on April 08, 2021, 04:37:46 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on April 08, 2021, 02:39:08 PM
so if we had to pick the 10 most "major" EW & NS US routes what would you go with? 11 if you count 101.
This is a general highway question and should be asked there.
Actually it's probably fictional
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 08, 2021, 12:33:05 PM
US 30 seems like the exception here, as it haven't been truncated to a point east of its lengthy interstate concurrencies with I-84 and I-86 ye, probably to McCammon, ID. US 20 is mostly independent in Oregon and Idaho, so I can still see it existing to the west coast.
US-30 through Wyoming via I-80 says "Hi"
I've been on US-30 in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana and Illinois.
Quote from: thenetwork on April 08, 2021, 07:50:41 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 08, 2021, 12:33:05 PM
US 30 seems like the exception here, as it haven't been truncated to a point east of its lengthy interstate concurrencies with I-84 and I-86 ye, probably to McCammon, ID. US 20 is mostly independent in Oregon and Idaho, so I can still see it existing to the west coast.
US-30 through Wyoming via I-80 says "Hi"
I purposely excluded WY because it seems like a state that doesn't truncate US routes. If they were/are interested, I think the concurrency to Yellowstone and US 87 would be gone by now. But if WY removes their section, NE can too; then I imagine the western terminus of US 30 would be at Grand River.
It was sort of an early outer belt of Chicago along with spurs like 430 and 330.Roosevelt Road was alt 30 I to downtown until the 70s.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 08, 2021, 05:55:46 PM
I find it interesting that US 30 always bypassed the Chicago area, rather than go through it like the other mainline US Highways did (save US 6 & 45). That being said, out west, I could have easily seen US 30 being truncated to a western terminus somewhere in Nebraska, since it parallels Interstate 80 (and later Interstate 84) from Grand Island, Nebraska to Portland Oregon. Like US 90, US 30 was spared the fate of other long US Highways being greatly reduced in length or decommissioned entirely by the Interstate System.
I wouldn't say that it bypasses the area it bypasses the city of Chicago but it still goes through some of its suburbs.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 08, 2021, 05:55:46 PM
I find it interesting that US 30 always bypassed the Chicago area, rather than go through it like the other mainline US Highways did (save US 6 & 45). That being said, out west, I could have easily seen US 30 being truncated to a western terminus somewhere in Nebraska, since it parallels Interstate 80 (and later Interstate 84) from Grand Island, Nebraska to Portland Oregon. Like US 90, US 30 was spared the fate of other long US Highways being greatly reduced in length or decommissioned entirely by the Interstate System.
20 goes through Chicago
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 09, 2021, 01:46:50 PM
I wouldn't say that it bypasses the area it bypasses the city of Chicago but it still goes through some of its suburbs.
The intersection of US 30 Lincoln Highway with Dixie Highway in Chicago Heights, IL was touted as the "Crossroads of the Country" by the locals. Before the interstate system, it was indeed a confluence of national importance, but obviously didn't reign supreme for too long. I worked on a study a few years back that looked to revitalize some of the vacant and underutilized properties in the area that was once a manufacturing juggernaut and still has some industries, although much less than 50 years ago.
Quote from: Rick Powell on April 09, 2021, 04:43:22 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 09, 2021, 01:46:50 PM
I wouldn't say that it bypasses the area it bypasses the city of Chicago but it still goes through some of its suburbs.
The intersection of US 30 Lincoln Highway with Dixie Highway in Chicago Heights, IL was touted as the "Crossroads of the Country" by the locals. Before the interstate system, it was indeed a confluence of national importance, but obviously didn't reign supreme for too long. I worked on a study a few years back that looked to revitalize some of the vacant and underutilized properties in the area that was once a manufacturing juggernaut and still has some industries, although much less than 50 years ago.
How many places are self proclaimed "Crossroads of America" even? Of course, there's Indianapolis, but there's also two other points on US 40 (National Road, which makes sense as the E-W route): one with US 41 at Terre Haute and another with former US 25 (Dixie Hwy) north of Dayton. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others on US 30, as the Lincoln Hwy, maybe where 25 Dixie and 30 Lincoln met (I think near Lima)?
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 09, 2021, 05:07:24 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on April 09, 2021, 04:43:22 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 09, 2021, 01:46:50 PM
I wouldn't say that it bypasses the area it bypasses the city of Chicago but it still goes through some of its suburbs.
The intersection of US 30 Lincoln Highway with Dixie Highway in Chicago Heights, IL was touted as the "Crossroads of the Country" by the locals. Before the interstate system, it was indeed a confluence of national importance, but obviously didn't reign supreme for too long. I worked on a study a few years back that looked to revitalize some of the vacant and underutilized properties in the area that was once a manufacturing juggernaut and still has some industries, although much less than 50 years ago.
How many places are self proclaimed "Crossroads of America" even? Of course, there's Indianapolis, but there's also two other points on US 40 (National Road, which makes sense as the E-W route): one with US 41 at Terre Haute and another with former US 25 (Dixie Hwy) north of Dayton. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others on US 30, as the Lincoln Hwy, maybe where 25 Dixie and 30 Lincoln met (I think near Lima)?
The Lincoln Highway (which had two major routings) and National Highway were the two main E-W roads of the time, with the various branches of the Dixie Hwy being the main N-S roads. Putting them together provides this list of early major intersections:
US 30 and IL 1 in Chicago Heights
Bus US 20 and Bus US 31 in South Bend
Old US 30 and Old US 31 in Plymouth, IN
US 30 and Dixie Hwy (very near I-75) in Beaverdam, OH
Washington and Meridian Streets in Indianapolis
US 40 and Dixie Dr (very near I-75) in Vandalia, OH
I've never seen anything to indicate that US 41 was a major early route, at least not where it intersected US 40. My understanding is that in the pre-interstate days, traffic heading south on US 41 from Chicago was more likely to veer off onto US 52 to Lafayette/Indy than stay on 41 to Terre Haute. Thus US 41 in Lake County is known as Indianapolis Blvd.
I've traveled US 30 from Camden, NJ to Granger, Wy. (over the course of 20 years)
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 09, 2021, 05:23:24 PM
I've never seen anything to indicate that US 41 was a major early route, at least not where it intersected US 40. My understanding is that in the pre-interstate days, traffic heading south on US 41 from Chicago was more likely to veer off onto US 50 to Lafayette/Indy than stay on 41 to Terre Haute. Thus US 41 in Lake County is known as Indianapolis Blvd.
That primarily traveled route, US 41 south out of Chicagoland to US 52, in the earliest days of Interstate System planning, was penciled in as the original alignment of I-65. Of course, the actual alignment as constructed "cut the corner" quite a bit and remained well east of US 41. But while US 41 was more or less a "straight shot" to Florida for pre-Interstate "snowbirds", most of it from US 52 south to near the KY/TN line was excluded from Interstate planning for one reason or another (probably the system 40K/vicinity mileage cap had a lot to do with that). But either as a major national N-S route or part of a regional Chicago-Indy corridor, its crossing of both US 20 in south Chicago and US 30 south of there would have, in pre-Interstate days, been a significant interregional/commercial junction point.
Indiana has a historical marker in Terre Haute, where US-40 and 41 intersected, labelling it the Crossroads of America.
https://www.in.gov/history/state-historical-markers/find-a-marker/crossroads-of-america/
Terre Haute has a plaque they put up at the site where the originally crossed.
(I'm not saying that this means it is deserving of the moniker. Just that they really promote it there.)
I think US-41 was considered a major route. It is four laned throughout Indiana (except for the IN-63 part) and runs from Upper Michigan to Miami.
https://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=f413d229-9d98-461f-8671-4ffa0405534b
US 30 in Indiana is a major rural divided highway. It is not a freeway except at Fort Wayne, where it runs around the north side on Interstate 69 (I‑69) and Interstate 469. Between Interstate 65 (at Merrillville) and I‑69 (Fort Wayne), there are over 40 traffic signals on this divided highway, hindering smooth traffic flow. This is especially pronounced near Warsaw and Columbia City, where the speed limit is reduced as the highway runs through a commercial section with many businesses and traffic signals. Many of the other signals are concentrated between Hobart and Valparaiso, the two cities being about 20 miles (32 km) apart. It is, however, a four lane divided road through its entirety within Indiana, generally avoiding small towns. Speed limits range, but are generally 60 miles per hour (97 km/h).
With some spot improvements to the sections concentrated with signals on US 30 in IN, I could see the route as part of an alternative Chicago-Columbus corridor to the current I-65/I-70, along with US 33 southeast of Ft Wayne. US 33 from the IN-OH border to Columbus is fine as it is I think. Sections with an AADT of 10k+ are at least an expressway, and Bellefontaine-Dublin is a freeway, while the 2 lane sections are generally below that threshold. The lowest AADT on this section is 2k near the IN border. For the traffic signals concentration of US 30 west of Valparaiso, you could use IN 49 to I-90 to avoid them, but unless you want to backtrack north to I-94, you'll be paying tolls.
I have used US30 off and on over the years, mostly to shunpike I-80/90 and if I had no time pressure to reach Mansfield, Ohio.
West of Mansfield Ohio, it is pretty much a near interstate grade most of the way. The only foobar is that silly interchange with I-75 at Beaverdam. You have to literally get off at Lincoln Highway, drive a a quarter mile to the I-75 exit for Lincoln Highway and then get back on. Very unusual compared to the rest of the route.
But once you cross into Indiana, you get a million of these grade level crossings and their left turn bays. Can't tell you how many cars I have seen misjudge the speed of traffic and cause major accidents.
As for Fort Wayne, it depends when you come through.
On Sunday mornings or late at night you can take old US-30 (IN-930) right through town as all the lights will be green 95% of the time.
But weekdays or week evenings forget about it, and take the US-30/I-469 Bypass.
Quote from: edwaleni on April 12, 2021, 09:18:11 AM
I have used US30 off and on over the years, mostly to shunpike I-80/90 and if I had no time pressure to reach Mansfield, Ohio.
West of Mansfield Ohio, it is pretty much a near interstate grade most of the way. The only foobar is that silly interchange with I-75 at Beaverdam. You have to literally get off at Lincoln Highway, drive a a quarter mile to the I-75 exit for Lincoln Highway and then get back on. Very unusual compared to the rest of the route.
But once you cross into Indiana, you get a million of these grade level crossings and their left turn bays. Can't tell you how many cars I have seen misjudge the speed of traffic and cause major accidents.
As for Fort Wayne, it depends when you come through.
On Sunday mornings or late at night you can take old US-30 (IN-930) right through town as all the lights will be green 95% of the time.
But weekdays or week evenings forget about it, and take the US-30/I-469 Bypass.
Once you get west of Van Wert, the left turns come into play as it's no longer freeway. Once you hit Indiana, you then lower the speed limit by 10 which would greatly increase mis-judging of traffic speeds. East of I469, more often you get passed doing 65-70mph until you hit the state line when it bumps up to 70. There needs to be better consistency of speed limits on that stretch for safety reasons.
A nice goal would be to have US30 be freeway from I-76 all the way to US31 near Plymouth, but that itself would require millions of dollars solely to redo some interchanges and do other spot upgrades........
Quote from: thefarmerchris on April 12, 2021, 12:45:55 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on April 12, 2021, 09:18:11 AM
I have used US30 off and on over the years, mostly to shunpike I-80/90 and if I had no time pressure to reach Mansfield, Ohio.
West of Mansfield Ohio, it is pretty much a near interstate grade most of the way. The only foobar is that silly interchange with I-75 at Beaverdam. You have to literally get off at Lincoln Highway, drive a a quarter mile to the I-75 exit for Lincoln Highway and then get back on. Very unusual compared to the rest of the route.
But once you cross into Indiana, you get a million of these grade level crossings and their left turn bays. Can't tell you how many cars I have seen misjudge the speed of traffic and cause major accidents.
As for Fort Wayne, it depends when you come through.
On Sunday mornings or late at night you can take old US-30 (IN-930) right through town as all the lights will be green 95% of the time.
But weekdays or week evenings forget about it, and take the US-30/I-469 Bypass.
Once you get west of Van Wert, the left turns come into play as it's no longer freeway. Once you hit Indiana, you then lower the speed limit by 10 which would greatly increase mis-judging of traffic speeds. East of I469, more often you get passed doing 65-70mph until you hit the state line when it bumps up to 70. There needs to be better consistency of speed limits on that stretch for safety reasons.
A nice goal would be to have US30 be freeway from I-76 all the way to US31 near Plymouth, but that itself would require millions of dollars solely to redo some interchanges and do other spot upgrades........
There are upgrades in Allen and Kosciusko Counties that I am aware of. The Allen county upgrades have been posted somewhere in this forum, basically a freeway conversion from I-69 to the Whitley county line. As for Kosciusko county, I know there's plenty of discussion locally in favor of bypassing Warsaw though nothing's officially planned AFAIK.
Quote from: I-55 on April 13, 2021, 12:58:44 AM
Quote from: thefarmerchris on April 12, 2021, 12:45:55 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on April 12, 2021, 09:18:11 AM
I have used US30 off and on over the years, mostly to shunpike I-80/90 and if I had no time pressure to reach Mansfield, Ohio.
West of Mansfield Ohio, it is pretty much a near interstate grade most of the way. The only foobar is that silly interchange with I-75 at Beaverdam. You have to literally get off at Lincoln Highway, drive a a quarter mile to the I-75 exit for Lincoln Highway and then get back on. Very unusual compared to the rest of the route.
But once you cross into Indiana, you get a million of these grade level crossings and their left turn bays. Can't tell you how many cars I have seen misjudge the speed of traffic and cause major accidents.
As for Fort Wayne, it depends when you come through.
On Sunday mornings or late at night you can take old US-30 (IN-930) right through town as all the lights will be green 95% of the time.
But weekdays or week evenings forget about it, and take the US-30/I-469 Bypass.
Once you get west of Van Wert, the left turns come into play as it's no longer freeway. Once you hit Indiana, you then lower the speed limit by 10 which would greatly increase mis-judging of traffic speeds. East of I469, more often you get passed doing 65-70mph until you hit the state line when it bumps up to 70. There needs to be better consistency of speed limits on that stretch for safety reasons.
A nice goal would be to have US30 be freeway from I-76 all the way to US31 near Plymouth, but that itself would require millions of dollars solely to redo some interchanges and do other spot upgrades........
There are upgrades in Allen and Kosciusko Counties that I am aware of. The Allen county upgrades have been posted somewhere in this forum, basically a freeway conversion from I-69 to the Whitley county line. As for Kosciusko county, I know there's plenty of discussion locally in favor of bypassing Warsaw though nothing's officially planned AFAIK.
No new bypass of Warsaw is required. The pain point is the fact that Warsaw allowed commercial zoning between Center Street (old US 30) and CR-325E. (to a lesser degree to Detroit Street)
An urban style layout with median elimination with frontage roads would easily fix the situation, though Warsaw may not want their retail isolated like that. An alternate would be a set of on/off lanes (like what TxDOT does) instead of frontage which provides easier access to roadside retail.
From Center Street west, there is plenty of ROW available to build overpasses, exit ramps where needed.
It looks like INDOT is going to have an public open house for US 30 upgrades in Fort Wayne/Allen County. Based off of the project maps, it'll be an interchange at Flaugh Road with "intersection improvements" elsewhere.
https://projectmeetingonline.com/us-30-corridor-study/
Quote from: thefarmerchris on June 04, 2021, 07:21:03 PM
It looks like INDOT is going to have an public open house for US 30 upgrades in Fort Wayne/Allen County. Based off of the project maps, it'll be an interchange at Flaugh Road with "intersection improvements" elsewhere.
https://projectmeetingonline.com/us-30-corridor-study/
The right lane on EB US-30 at the Kroemer traffic light is a completely different color than the other lanes at that junction from all the trucks that slam their brakes to stop from 65+ mph.
The upgrades are badly needed. Glad to see some movement on this.
Most frequent section I've been on is from Waterman IL to just east of Oswego IL
Went to the open house for US-30 upgrades tonight. Few notes:
- The project addresses the Kroemer Road intersection improvements and impacted intersections as far west as Felger/Leesburg Rd. This is NOT the same study as is being done for the whole state, but rather is addressing an isolated issue.
- Any alternatives listed are preliminary design and subject to change, though they do indicate the direction INDOT is trying to go with this project.
- Most alternatives for the other intersections were RIROs or removing intersections and dead ending the county roads. J-Turns were ruled out due to negative public feedback (similar to the US-31 situation).
- I was surprised by the number of farmers who have to move equipment across US-30 to access their fields and the lack of crossings presented in the initial alternatives (with RIROs and dead ends). I figured there was a high number of fields that were split when the new terrain alignment of US-30 was built.
It is early in the design process and public feedback will likely impact further planning. The scale of the project will be small, but the impact will be big.
I've been on US-30 a lot in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana and Illinois. It's a major cross country route though because US highways ending in a 0 are E-W major routes and US highways ending in a 1 are N-S major routes. A lot have been scaled back due to an Interstate taking over the route.
Geez if I had read the first page I'd realize I already answered this thread. I just went off the first post and didn't even realize that this thread has been here a couple months.
Quote from: ET21 on June 08, 2021, 09:58:37 AM
Most frequent section I've been on is from Waterman IL to just east of Oswego IL
I'm guessing to the junction with US34.
I take a portion of US30 to work every day in Joliet, IL! I don't mind saying this now, as I'll be moving in a week, making this statement no longer true. :)
Quote from: paulthemapguy on June 14, 2021, 11:11:02 AM
Quote from: ET21 on June 08, 2021, 09:58:37 AM
Most frequent section I've been on is from Waterman IL to just east of Oswego IL
I'm guessing to the junction with US34.
I take a portion of US30 to work every day in Joliet, IL! I don't mind saying this now, as I'll be moving in a week, making this statement no longer true. :)
Yup out to Wolf Road
Drove US 30 last night from Fort Wayne across to Lisbon Ohio. Was on 30 from roughly 630pm - 1100 pm
It was a great example of why I prefer 69/469/30 to 70/71 driving from Indy to northeast Ohio
Passed a truck west of Upper Sandusky and remarked the road was open in front of me. Went the last 15 miles to the interchange with 23 without passing a car or having a car pass me.
In the roughly 36 miles from the exit off 23 until just outside of Mansfield one car passed me (at 6 miles), I passed one car (21 miles) and we passed an Ohio State Patrolman with a car pulled over.
I've had long stretches of driving alone before but never such an extended period of multiple times. I make this trip solo a lot and it's preferable to 70/71