Poll
Question:
Which is the best?
Option 1: All asphalt
votes: 18
Option 2: Hybrid concrete and asphalt shoulders (Knightdale bypass, I-85 in Henderson)
votes: 14
Option 3: All concrete (I-485 on the north side of Charlotte, I-785)
votes: 31
I have to go with option 3. But that's only if highways are busier.
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0001796,-79.7994545,3a,75y,85.4h,79.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3QoVMKjWTSQyYygAms-ftg!2e0!5s20140601T000000!7i13312!8i6656) one seems okay to me but it's not my favorite. I rather have it all concrete rather than just the shoulders. Don't you think? The Winston-Salem Northern Beltway is being built that way. :D
That part of the highway opened in 2004. If they were building it right now, I'm sure it would have all been concrete (and as you can see the rumble strips are in an odd spot).
i like concrete if done right, or right imho.
colorado tends to groove it across the highway, which makes a really annoying whine noise when driven at highway speed, indeed, i know what 70mph sounds like quite well.
but it seems like when they go bad,they go REALLY bad. us 287 nw of fort collins is beat to all shit by trucks, the seams are out of whack with the striping, and are probably pants-shitting for motorcycles, since they cross the road at weird angles.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 11, 2021, 02:41:51 PM
i like concrete if done right, or right imho.
colorado tends to groove it across the highway, which makes a really annoying whine noise when driven at highway speed, indeed, i know what 70mph sounds like quite well.
but it seems like when they go bad,they go REALLY bad. us 287 nw of fort collins is beat to all shit by trucks, the seams are out of whack with the striping, and are probably pants-shitting for motorcycles, since they cross the road at weird angles.
Look at I-85 in Henderson back in 2007.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 11, 2021, 02:41:51 PM
colorado tends to groove it across the highway, which makes a really annoying whine noise when driven at highway speed, indeed, i know what 70mph sounds like quite well.
That noise from the transverse grooves is part of what makes driving on concrete fun. If it also has a little bit of that ka-thunk sound, so much the better! Longitudinal grooves are IMO more boring and tend to make the car shimmy a bit for some reason.
I like the concrete freeways ISTHA paves
I prefer well-maintained freeways without potholes regardless of surface. But there's nothing quite like a freshly-paved asphalt road with almost no traffic from my POV, especially when it winds through beautiful scenery like a Northwoods forest or Western canyon. It's even better when driving a sports car. I once drove a section of the Blue Ridge Parkway after it had been recently paved; even driving an older RAV4 it was practically nirvana.
Concrete roads can still be noisy, but new asphalt almost never is. Unfortunately, asphalt can't handle the loads carried by interstate truck traffic, so I prefer concrete on freeways except a few rarely-traveled ones. I don't care about shoulders, as long as they're wide enough to use if I need to pull off the road and not gravel.
Another annoying feature of concrete is on an sunny day it can get super bright and reflect all the light right into your eyes.
The other problem with concrete roads is that while they should rarely develop potholes if well-maintained, if there is a pothole it seems like it's almost impossible to repair. For a long time there was a monster hole in the left lane of NJ 21 northbound around Nutley or Clifton that was bad enough to destroy major suspension components at 70 mph.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on April 11, 2021, 05:57:13 PM
Another annoying feature of concrete is on an sunny day it can get super bright and reflect all the light right into your eyes.
The other problem with concrete roads is that while they should rarely develop potholes if well-maintained, if there is a pothole it seems like it's almost impossible to repair. For a long time there was a monster hole in the left lane of NJ 21 northbound around Nutley or Clifton that was bad enough to destroy major suspension components at 70 mph.
I've seen contractors for IDOT D9 use concrete pot-hole patches on asphalt roads
I thought the usual concrete pot-hole repair was cutting up and removing that "square" /section, and relaying it? Or is that repairing something else when I see crews doing that?
I have no strong feelings about this, except that I like the transition from one to the other, even if it's just from an asphalt roadway to a concrete bridge and back. I couldn't tell you why, though.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on April 11, 2021, 05:57:13 PM
Another annoying feature of concrete is on an sunny day it can get super bright and reflect all the light right into your eyes.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28420
Concrete makes cool noises, so I choose concrete. :bigass:
I just want to see more roads paved and striped like the new six lane portion of the Turner Turnpike.
It depends. For a lower volume Interstate like 155 in Illinois asphalt seem fine. The asphalt section of US 67 south of Monmouth was new alignment only one intersection will be repaved after 30 years.
I've always liked asphalt with concrete bridges, which is probably a majority of the Atlanta metro.
ADOT appears to be returning the metro Phoenix area freeways to concrete from rubberized asphalt (they all have a concrete base but the rubberized asphalt was an overlay). Instead of an asphalt overlay they are diamond grinding the concrete.
The diamond ground concrete is quieter and smoother in my opinion.
I prefer concrete. Asphalt always makes the car feel kinda loose and sloshy because of its relative softness and tendency to develop ruts and deform in the heat. Driving on concrete feels more precise.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 11, 2021, 02:41:51 PM
colorado tends to groove it across the highway, which makes a really annoying whine noise when driven at highway speed, indeed, i know what 70mph sounds like quite well.
That's one of the things I like about concrete with transverse grooves–you can tell if you're going too fast based on the pitch of the pavement whistle!
Living in a province where concrete roadways are rare, I'm always rather annoyed by the noise that concrete makes, in addition to just not being used to seeing a white road instead of a black one. Thus, I choose asphalt.
Anyone voting for concrete hasn't seen US-23 in Monroe County, Michigan. That being said, I shudder to think how disastrous it would be if it were asphalted.
I hope when I-95 is widened, it will be concrete.
Asphalt is concrete. Unless you mean roads that are only made out of the sticky black goo component.
Continuously reinforced concrete pavement (CRCP) > Asphalt > Jointed plain concrete pavement (JPCP). Not sure where jointed reinforced concrete pavement (JRCP) falls on that list. There's also asphalt-overlaid concrete pavement. Different pavements are warranted for different applications, percentage of truck traffic, ADT, etc. Pavements vary in cost, thickness, mix design, etc....so it's difficult to choose a type of pavement that's better universally.
Jointed plain concrete pavement is maddening to drive on after it's aged through many freeze-thaw cycles in places where it snows. The joints get pushed up, so it's like riding waves on a waverunner until you want to barf....but the waves are pavement.
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 02:35:08 PM
Asphalt is concrete. Unless you mean roads that are only made out of the sticky black goo component.
Everyone knows how these words are used colloquially and what they meant. You aren't blowing any minds here.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2021, 03:10:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 02:35:08 PM
Asphalt is concrete. Unless you mean roads that are only made out of the sticky black goo component.
Everyone knows how these words are used colloquially and what they meant. You aren't blowing any minds here.
He's trying to get everyone to say "Portland cement concrete" every time because he's in the pocket of Big Word Count.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 13, 2021, 03:36:17 PM
He's trying to get everyone to say "Portland cement concrete" every time because he's in the pocket of Big Word Count.
Correct.
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 04:19:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 13, 2021, 03:36:17 PM
He's trying to get everyone to say "Portland cement concrete" every time because he's in the pocket of Big Word Count.
Correct.
Absolutely correct.
(That doubles the count)
Quote from: andrepoiy on April 11, 2021, 08:45:24 PM
Living in a province where concrete roadways are rare, I'm always rather annoyed by the noise that concrete makes, in addition to just not being used to seeing a white road instead of a black one. Thus, I choose asphalt.
I mostly agree with this, concrete is rare in my area also. The one place that I support the use of concrete is actually on urban roads that have established bus routes and stops - use concrete either for the stops only, or for the whole street that the route runs on. Because I have experience with how frequent bus routes can degrade asphalt streets.
Another annoying thing about concrete freeways, that no one has mentioned yet, is how restriping them (such as after a widening) can cause confusion when the lane lines don't coincide with the seams. For an example of this, see I-20 inside I-285 east of I-75/85: https://goo.gl/maps/EJ6fTgsXaL8rBeeX6
Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 11:31:09 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on April 11, 2021, 08:45:24 PM
Living in a province where concrete roadways are rare, I'm always rather annoyed by the noise that concrete makes, in addition to just not being used to seeing a white road instead of a black one. Thus, I choose asphalt.
I mostly agree with this, concrete is rare in my area also. The one place that I support the use of concrete is actually on urban roads that have established bus routes and stops - use concrete either for the stops only, or for the whole street that the route runs on. Because I have experience with how frequent bus routes can degrade asphalt streets.
Another annoying thing about concrete freeways, that no one has mentioned yet, is how restriping them (such as after a widening) can cause confusion when the lane lines don't coincide with the seams. For an example of this, see I-20 inside I-285 east of I-75/85: https://goo.gl/maps/EJ6fTgsXaL8rBeeX6
Well, I-95 in NC will be widened and I'm sure they will use concrete slabs.
I driven on both asphalt and concrete paved freeways. In my area the concrete is used in the road bed and the surface is paved in asphalt.
I prefer concrete. A lot of states will chip-seal asphalt after about 5-6 years (even on freeways – looking at you, Texas) and I hate the sound that makes.
Nearly all new construction in Texas is concrete these days, fortunately. TxDOT is going back to a lot of older concrete sections and milling them smooth.
Obviously, what is better depends highly on a myriad of environmental factors: climate, soil, drainage patterns. And traffic load too. Obvious to most of us that it's not so simple as "what do I like better". And that's not easy to answer anyway. Brand new asphalt seems great, but in certain areas it can start pitting within a year and certainly within two or three. Concrete has always been more durable, but was more subject to cracking and pitting (that was 'fixed' with asphalt sealant) than it is now. Newer technology has concrete holding up better than before. And it's still a nice ride. Asphalt is much less durable, yet it's more flexible and it's a lot cheaper. So, it has advantages too. Especially where the soil/climate may not be conducive to concrete roadways.
Personally, I think concrete is preferable - but it's not better if it's in a location where it won't hold up. If that makes sense. :hmmm:
Concrete would be appropriate for major interstate highways and highways that tend to have a high AADT. For everything else, asphalt is the winner. With the exception of I-85 from NC 73 to the Rowan County line.
When they widen US 64/264 to 6 lanes, I hope they use concrete.
I think we can all agree it is very much dependent on traffic counts.
Concrete should be the ONLY road surface on major highway's in urban areas, at least have a 50 year pavement life designed due to the difficulty of reconstruction.
For long stretches of rural interstate blacktop is better, quiet, easier on the eyes, cheap, etc. Even with moderate truck traffic you can just do a heavy duty base and mill the surface periodically.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
I think we can all agree it is very much dependent on traffic counts.
Concrete should be the ONLY road surface on major highway's in urban areas, at least have a 50 year pavement life designed due to the difficulty of reconstruction.
For long stretches of rural interstate blacktop is better, quiet, easier on the eyes, cheap, etc. Even with moderate truck traffic you can just do a heavy duty base and mill the surface periodically.
Look at I-85 in Salisbury.
And that being said, when the I-440 express lanes come, I hope that can be rebuilt back to concrete like they did on I-85 in Henderson to the VA state line.
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 16, 2021, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
I think we can all agree it is very much dependent on traffic counts.
Concrete should be the ONLY road surface on major highway's in urban areas, at least have a 50 year pavement life designed due to the difficulty of reconstruction.
For long stretches of rural interstate blacktop is better, quiet, easier on the eyes, cheap, etc. Even with moderate truck traffic you can just do a heavy duty base and mill the surface periodically.
Look at I-85 in Salisbury.
And that being said, when the I-440 express lanes come, I hope that can be rebuilt back to concrete like they did on I-85 in Henderson to the VA state line.
What about it?
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 16, 2021, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
I think we can all agree it is very much dependent on traffic counts.
Concrete should be the ONLY road surface on major highway's in urban areas, at least have a 50 year pavement life designed due to the difficulty of reconstruction.
For long stretches of rural interstate blacktop is better, quiet, easier on the eyes, cheap, etc. Even with moderate truck traffic you can just do a heavy duty base and mill the surface periodically.
Look at I-85 in Salisbury.
And that being said, when the I-440 express lanes come, I hope that can be rebuilt back to concrete like they did on I-85 in Henderson to the VA state line.
What about it?
It was asphalt and it got widened to 8 lanes and to a concrete freeway in the mid 2000s.
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 16, 2021, 02:15:10 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 16, 2021, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
I think we can all agree it is very much dependent on traffic counts.
Concrete should be the ONLY road surface on major highway's in urban areas, at least have a 50 year pavement life designed due to the difficulty of reconstruction.
For long stretches of rural interstate blacktop is better, quiet, easier on the eyes, cheap, etc. Even with moderate truck traffic you can just do a heavy duty base and mill the surface periodically.
Look at I-85 in Salisbury.
And that being said, when the I-440 express lanes come, I hope that can be rebuilt back to concrete like they did on I-85 in Henderson to the VA state line.
What about it?
It was asphalt and it got widened to 8 lanes and to a concrete freeway in the mid 2000s.
Which is fine. A few miles of concrete in an urban area where traffic count is high and speeds lower is not irritating, but driving on it for hundreds of miles is.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:16:56 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 16, 2021, 02:15:10 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 16, 2021, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
I think we can all agree it is very much dependent on traffic counts.
Concrete should be the ONLY road surface on major highway's in urban areas, at least have a 50 year pavement life designed due to the difficulty of reconstruction.
For long stretches of rural interstate blacktop is better, quiet, easier on the eyes, cheap, etc. Even with moderate truck traffic you can just do a heavy duty base and mill the surface periodically.
Look at I-85 in Salisbury.
And that being said, when the I-440 express lanes come, I hope that can be rebuilt back to concrete like they did on I-85 in Henderson to the VA state line.
What about it?
It was asphalt and it got widened to 8 lanes and to a concrete freeway in the mid 2000s.
Which is fine. A few miles of concrete in an urban area where traffic count is high and speeds lower is not irritating, but driving on it for hundreds of miles is.
Also, I meant to say just I-40 - not I-440. But I-440 did have a concurrency before.
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8054166,-78.4260777,3a,75y,237.99h,70.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXOx0DSSoVytxAVEJArkpsA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) looks like fake darker asphalt!
I wonder why they do that.
It's just a newer layer than what's on the shoulder.
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 04:28:11 PM
It's just a newer layer than what's on the shoulder.
Which was paved in 2009. Well take a look at this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6072704,-77.5469177,3a,75y,81.52h,63.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soqcuUp8rvv6CYu_ZdOAVuQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) then!
Concrete if done right is very nice (see the IL tollway system for I-90 and I-88), but I also don't mind the hybrid approach
I-69 through Lansing is concrete and is some of the roughest freeway i have ever driven on (the section just east of I-96 was the worst to me). The freeze/thaw has does a number on the expansion joints and you drive over speed bumps every 40 feet. The truck lane is especially bad to drive on.
Quote from: tradephoric on May 11, 2021, 08:29:19 AM
(the section just east of I-96 was the worst to me).
The part that's near the airport? Is that possibly the concrete that was installed when that section was built about 1981?
I'm not sure when the concrete on I-69 was originally laid out. The surface itself doesn't seem horrible (it's not good by any means) but the expansion joints are what really stands out to me.
Why was this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.332476,-80.9125289,3a,45.5y,47.52h,82.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI--tnaZfF60CH62guzHwPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) part changed from concrete to asphalt. I wonder why...
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 14, 2021, 03:18:38 PM
Why was this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.332476,-80.9125289,3a,45.5y,47.52h,82.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI--tnaZfF60CH62guzHwPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) part changed from concrete to asphalt. I wonder why...
Bridge approach.
Quote from: US 89 on July 14, 2021, 03:20:38 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 14, 2021, 03:18:38 PM
Why was this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.332476,-80.9125289,3a,45.5y,47.52h,82.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI--tnaZfF60CH62guzHwPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) part changed from concrete to asphalt. I wonder why...
Bridge approach.
Yep. I've seen that elsewhere at bridge approaches.
Quote from: US 89 on July 14, 2021, 03:20:38 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 14, 2021, 03:18:38 PM
Why was this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.332476,-80.9125289,3a,45.5y,47.52h,82.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI--tnaZfF60CH62guzHwPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) part changed from concrete to asphalt. I wonder why...
Bridge approach.
US-421
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5Tmg8vPNY1d481Tt7
But look over here and it doesn't do that.
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 14, 2021, 03:35:21 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 14, 2021, 03:20:38 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 14, 2021, 03:18:38 PM
Why was this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.332476,-80.9125289,3a,45.5y,47.52h,82.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI--tnaZfF60CH62guzHwPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) part changed from concrete to asphalt. I wonder why...
Bridge approach.
US-421
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5Tmg8vPNY1d481Tt7
But look over here and it doesn't do that.
Alert the local media.
Quote from: kphoger on July 14, 2021, 03:23:43 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 14, 2021, 03:20:38 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 14, 2021, 03:18:38 PM
Why was this (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.332476,-80.9125289,3a,45.5y,47.52h,82.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI--tnaZfF60CH62guzHwPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) part changed from concrete to asphalt. I wonder why...
Bridge approach.
Yep. I've seen that elsewhere at bridge approaches.
IT is a sacrificial piece of asphalt It takes the pressure of expanding concrete instead of the bridge which could be damaged.
Does anyone know why ISTHA repaved I-94 from Lake-Cook Rd to Half Day Rd in asphalt a couple years back when the rest of the Tri-State from O'Hare north is concrete?
Was it supposed to act as a test control sample to see if they want to use asphalt going forward?
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 14, 2021, 05:02:26 PM
Does anyone know why ISTHA repaved I-94 from Lake-Cook Rd to Half Day Rd in asphalt a couple years back when the rest of the Tri-State from O'Hare north is concrete?
Was it supposed to act as a test control sample to see if they want to use asphalt going forward?
That section may have different soil conditions more conductive to asphalt.
When I was a kid I skateboarded in the city park and the "clip clop" of the wheels on the concrete reminded me of riding on the interstate. That's all I got today.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1256568,-80.1291349,3a,44y,353.47h,89.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIwQJWktnWl0KVDUBsEVJEw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
This highway look nice although there is one thing that I don't like about it which is the markings. Where are the black painted markings? Also btw, this highway (Winston-Salem Northern Beltway) transitions into asphalt past the Reidsville Rd interchange.
I'm only saying this cause I'm kind of blind when looking at white-on-white stuff. However at night time, it's not a problem because you have markers which light up...
When I ask, which type of asphalt is better? After 9 years I see, it's all crumbled when it was repaved. It's now due for repaving.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8906502,-77.6111437,3a,80.2y,278.56h,51.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNZXsgqI8Aw8oT2zj2THxfg!2e0!5s20110801T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2021, 03:10:41 PM
Jointed plain concrete pavement is maddening to drive on after it's aged through many freeze-thaw cycles in places where it snows. The joints get pushed up, so it's like riding waves on a waverunner until you want to barf....but the waves are pavement.
I got news for you. Asphalt/blacktop does the same thing. In Minnesota, MNDOT refers to it as tenting. Certain sandy clay soils create drainage issues that cause tenting. It's very annoying.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on November 05, 2021, 05:43:18 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2021, 03:10:41 PM
Jointed plain concrete pavement is maddening to drive on after it's aged through many freeze-thaw cycles in places where it snows. The joints get pushed up, so it's like riding waves on a waverunner until you want to barf....but the waves are pavement.
I got news for you. Asphalt/blacktop does the same thing. In Minnesota, MNDOT refers to it as tenting. Certain sandy clay soils create drainage issues that cause tenting. It's very annoying.
Not every 50 feet or so like concrete.
Also, some DOTs just paved asphalt over concrete rather than being able to afford a crack and seat, just delaying the rhythmic kachonks a while. See I-81 in Cortland and Broome Counties in NY...
Is there a reason why a freeway would be paved with asphalt for one direction (e.g. northbound) and concrete for the other (southbound)? See I-85 between Greenville SC and Anderson SC, which has been paved that way for about a couple of decades now.
The one that blows my mind: Concrete cut and patch sections on an otherwise asphalt paved highway. Have been noticing IDOT D8&D9 do more of that the last couple summers
It creates an interesting driving surface
That said, I have not seen it on freeways. 2 lane roads and boulevards in towns
I prefer asphalt. Even when major rehab is required, it can be milled down rather than having to be ripped out down to the dirt and replaced as is done with concrete. Asphalt is more forgiving of imprecision in initial placement, too.
Quote from: ran4sh on November 05, 2021, 09:13:26 PM
Is there a reason why a freeway would be paved with asphalt for one direction (e.g. northbound) and concrete for the other (southbound)? See I-85 between Greenville SC and Anderson SC, which has been paved that way for about a couple of decades now.
SC is almost known for this nowadays it seems. A couple of years ago they finished widening a portion of I-77 north of Columbia, then did pavement rehab (with no widening) on an immediately adjacent stretch north of what was widened. Most of what was widened or rehabbed was original concrete dating to the late-70’s to early 80’s (because most of I-77 south of Charlotte was late to the game, not actually finished until 1991!). Anyway, during the process of widening, they laid a brand new concrete lane to the inside median, and my assumption was that they would just diamond grind it all down for the final riding surface, after repouring damaged slabs in the original section. They did all of that, and then placed asphalt over it all for the final riding surface! No breaking up of the concrete or anything! I suppose the freeze/thaw cycle in Columbia just isn’t severe enough for concrete joints to come through the asphalt (it gets down into the upper teens maybe one night a year, and gets up to just over 100 as the highest temp for a week or two in mid-summer).
But anyway, just north of this seemingly asphalt widened section, they paved over the original concrete southbound lanes, but simply repaired and diamond-ground the northbound lanes. So from Exits 22 to 27, you have northbound concrete and southbound asphalt.
All in all, I *used* to prefer concrete, mainly because it just wasn’t used as much where I was raised (Tennessee), and I liked the sound of the perpendicular grooves. But the parallel grooves of diamond-ground roads are terrible when you have newer tires, and I’m sure downright dangerous to motorcycles. Superpave asphalt is the quietest and most resilient of the asphalts, but is very slippery in the rain. And it rains A LOT in NC and SC! Since SC has started exclusively using OGFC asphalt on interstates, it’s made a world of difference in rainy conditions. Overspray is cut down drastically. Much different in NC, which I think only recently started trying out OGFC and has Superpave everywhere. Overspray is absolutely horrible when driving through NC in the rain. The only big issues with OGFC are noisiness (and not in a good way) and it doesn’t hold up as well. So in a state with poor maintenance practices like SC that isn’t a good combination, but I think they’re trying to be better. In general, they just don’t use maintenance “best practices” and really need to look to other states for pointers. Especially when it comes to bridge approaches. Some states don’t seem to have a problem in that department, while others can never seem to get it right.
I brought up a lot to process, but most of us will be asleep in a few hours anyway, due to eating too much. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Quote from: ran4sh on November 05, 2021, 09:13:26 PM
Is there a reason why a freeway would be paved with asphalt for one direction (e.g. northbound) and concrete for the other (southbound)? See I-85 between Greenville SC and Anderson SC, which has been paved that way for about a couple of decades now.
I'm guessing:
(1) May save some $$.
(2) Research/testing purposes -- comparing longevity of two different builds in identical soils and with identical traffic statistics.
I-75 between I-475 and Forsyth in three lanes of concrete southbound and four lanes of asphalt northbound. The four lanes northbound eliminates the operational problem of dropping a lane at the 75-475 confluence. Perhaps three lanes of more-durable concrete is expected to be similar in life expectancy to four lanes of less-durable asphalt.
Testing blacktop asphalt: Quieter pavement test section (polymer). (https://goo.gl/maps/sikaseSSbnizokbV9)
Quote from: wanderer2575 on November 25, 2021, 12:45:10 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on November 05, 2021, 09:13:26 PM
Is there a reason why a freeway would be paved with asphalt for one direction (e.g. northbound) and concrete for the other (southbound)? See I-85 between Greenville SC and Anderson SC, which has been paved that way for about a couple of decades now.
I'm guessing:
(1) May save some $$.
(2) Research/testing purposes -- comparing longevity of two different builds in identical soils and with identical traffic statistics.
Having one side be asphalt and the other side be concrete was explicitly done for research purposes on the US 30 freeway east of Wooster, OH.
On the newly completed Bella Vista Bypass (I-49), the northbound carriageway that was just completed was done with asphalt between the exits where they had pre-paved the unopened carriageway a couple of years ago when they did the overpasses. They did asphalt on the completed northbound carriageway due to funding constraints to finish the project. The southbound carriageway is all concrete with asphalt shoulders.
The reasoning generally to have disparate surfaces on parallel opposite direction lanes generally is done because they are done or redone at different times. The reasoning at a given time may be the financial situation of the road building agency at the time, the current choice of surfaces by the roadbuilding agency at the different times, or something as simple as the bid is for a spec that either would meet or exceed and the particular contractor of a design build project prefers the other (especially in situations where a period of maintenance is included.)
REDONE is probably the bigger reason. In a lot of cases, they put an asphalt layer over existing concrete to smooth the driving surface. In Texas, most of the rural driving surfaces are asphalt but on the interstates and major arterials, the base is actually concrete. There is a near constant program to mill the surface down to relatively flat and put a new asphalt driving surface.
Here's a map that shows a list of all the concrete highways in North Carolina
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?layers=da4a1a337c6846a7b97030dc00e7c51c
In Norther California, there are a number of variations even within the same direction of a freeway, usually the result of widening projects using a different material than what was used when the highway was originally constructed.
The most interesting one around here is US-101 between San Jose and Morgan Hill. This stretch of freeway was built during the early 1980's, and consisted of 2 lanes each way, paved in asphalt. It became a bottleneck over the years, as US-101 south of Morgan Hill and north of CA-85 was already 3 or 4 lanes in each direction, respectively. When it was finally widened in the late-90's, 2 lanes were added to the inside shoulder of each direction, a mixed-flow and HOV lane. These added lanes were constructed of concrete, which gives an interesting effect of the roadway being 50/50 concrete/asphalt:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2023968,-121.7112073,3a,75y,139.8h,93.58t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGGJo9ENoW7jYxpFlszNM6Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DGGJo9ENoW7jYxpFlszNM6Q%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D203.82089%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
Another example, in the opposite direction, is CA-242 in Concord. It was constructed in the 1960's with the then-typical concrete roadway/asphalt shoulders. When a third shoulder lane was added in each direction around 2000, it was constructed of asphalt:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9755499,-122.0451252,3a,75y,31.4h,90.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMKDwxAiAGUOysgEI6rMg8Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Its worth noting that those cracked concrete slabs on CA-242 northbound were replaced over this past summer with fresh concrete in a project that resulted in a couple of weekend-long closures of that entire direction of freeway. Interestingly, the left lane remained paved with asphalt.
I have noticed that most major widening projects in the past few years around here have been paved with the same surface as the existing roadway. Asphalt freeways widened with asphalt, concrete freeways widened with concrete.
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 24, 2021, 02:36:35 AM
When I ask, which type of asphalt is better? After 9 years I see, it's all crumbled when it was repaved. It's now due for repaving.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8906502,-77.6111437,3a,80.2y,278.56h,51.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNZXsgqI8Aw8oT2zj2THxfg!2e0!5s20110801T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Actually, this is an interesting case. It looks like the put some sort of chip seal over the asphalt, which is what you see being laid down in that streetview image over top of the normal asphalt of the lane being driven in by the google car. Chip seal is only supposed to last about 5-10 years so the crumbled look it has now is completely ordinary, and the cracks you see are only in that top layer, which could be easily scraped off to reveal the fresh asphalt beneath. I've never seen chip seal used as a sort of sacrificial layer like this before though, only as a fix to prolong the life of asphalt that is starting to wear down, which is what makes this interesting.
You can actually see a little bit of the still fresh-looking asphalt layer below if you look closely at the side of the road: https://goo.gl/maps/iuZpchCvjFns4d1w6
Quote from: stevashe on December 08, 2021, 08:46:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 24, 2021, 02:36:35 AM
When I ask, which type of asphalt is better? After 9 years I see, it's all crumbled when it was repaved. It's now due for repaving.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8906502,-77.6111437,3a,80.2y,278.56h,51.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNZXsgqI8Aw8oT2zj2THxfg!2e0!5s20110801T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Actually, this is an interesting case. It looks like the put some sort of chip seal over the asphalt, which is what you see being laid down in that streetview image over top of the normal asphalt of the lane being driven in by the google car. Chip seal is only supposed to last about 5-10 years so the crumbled look it has now is completely ordinary, and the cracks you see are only in that top layer, which could be easily scraped off to reveal the fresh asphalt beneath. I've never seen chip seal used as a sort of sacrificial layer like this before though, only as a fix to prolong the life of asphalt that is starting to wear down, which is what makes this interesting.
You can actually see a little bit of the still fresh-looking asphalt layer below if you look closely at the side of the road: https://goo.gl/maps/iuZpchCvjFns4d1w6
This is the process Texas uses all over the state. The aggregate in the Streetview looks to be more coarse, but this is not the spray and drop chipseal either. This just putting down a layer of hotmix. As to the hotmix resurfacing, in Texas it tends to be replaced from as little as three years to as much as seven or eight. As people who drive on I-20 between Dallas and Louisiana too well know, it seems to be a never ending process that has most stretches undergo milling and resurfacing every three or so years.
My idea of chipseal is where liquid asphalt is sprayed on the road and rock chips or gravel are dropped onto it and it sticks.
Quote from: stevashe on December 08, 2021, 08:46:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 24, 2021, 02:36:35 AM
When I ask, which type of asphalt is better? After 9 years I see, it's all crumbled when it was repaved. It's now due for repaving.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8906502,-77.6111437,3a,80.2y,278.56h,51.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNZXsgqI8Aw8oT2zj2THxfg!2e0!5s20110801T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Actually, this is an interesting case. It looks like the put some sort of chip seal over the asphalt, which is what you see being laid down in that streetview image over top of the normal asphalt of the lane being driven in by the google car. Chip seal is only supposed to last about 5-10 years so the crumbled look it has now is completely ordinary, and the cracks you see are only in that top layer, which could be easily scraped off to reveal the fresh asphalt beneath. I've never seen chip seal used as a sort of sacrificial layer like this before though, only as a fix to prolong the life of asphalt that is starting to wear down, which is what makes this interesting.
You can actually see a little bit of the still fresh-looking asphalt layer below if you look closely at the side of the road: https://goo.gl/maps/iuZpchCvjFns4d1w6
That's great to know. When US-264 was upgraded to interstate standards, they did the same thing so I expect it to crumble in 5-10 years. The normal asphalt can still be seen on the shoulders.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.608748,-77.4589528,3a,50.3y,298.87h,67.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sngXkAtIcuqzMsIlZqtkOWQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 09, 2021, 11:09:01 PM
Quote from: stevashe on December 08, 2021, 08:46:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 24, 2021, 02:36:35 AM
When I ask, which type of asphalt is better? After 9 years I see, it's all crumbled when it was repaved. It's now due for repaving.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8906502,-77.6111437,3a,80.2y,278.56h,51.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNZXsgqI8Aw8oT2zj2THxfg!2e0!5s20110801T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Actually, this is an interesting case. It looks like the put some sort of chip seal over the asphalt, which is what you see being laid down in that streetview image over top of the normal asphalt of the lane being driven in by the google car. Chip seal is only supposed to last about 5-10 years so the crumbled look it has now is completely ordinary, and the cracks you see are only in that top layer, which could be easily scraped off to reveal the fresh asphalt beneath. I've never seen chip seal used as a sort of sacrificial layer like this before though, only as a fix to prolong the life of asphalt that is starting to wear down, which is what makes this interesting.
You can actually see a little bit of the still fresh-looking asphalt layer below if you look closely at the side of the road: https://goo.gl/maps/iuZpchCvjFns4d1w6
That's great to know. When US-264 was upgraded to interstate standards, they did the same thing so I expect it to crumble in 5-10 years. The normal asphalt can still be seen on the shoulders.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.608748,-77.4589528,3a,50.3y,298.87h,67.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sngXkAtIcuqzMsIlZqtkOWQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
That appears to be open graded asphalt. It helps drain water away from the surface and is good for rainy areas. It's not used in the north where it would perform poorly in freeze/thaw cycles.
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 13, 2021, 11:21:34 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on December 09, 2021, 11:09:01 PM
Quote from: stevashe on December 08, 2021, 08:46:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on October 24, 2021, 02:36:35 AM
When I ask, which type of asphalt is better? After 9 years I see, it's all crumbled when it was repaved. It's now due for repaving.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8906502,-77.6111437,3a,80.2y,278.56h,51.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNZXsgqI8Aw8oT2zj2THxfg!2e0!5s20110801T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Actually, this is an interesting case. It looks like the put some sort of chip seal over the asphalt, which is what you see being laid down in that streetview image over top of the normal asphalt of the lane being driven in by the google car. Chip seal is only supposed to last about 5-10 years so the crumbled look it has now is completely ordinary, and the cracks you see are only in that top layer, which could be easily scraped off to reveal the fresh asphalt beneath. I've never seen chip seal used as a sort of sacrificial layer like this before though, only as a fix to prolong the life of asphalt that is starting to wear down, which is what makes this interesting.
You can actually see a little bit of the still fresh-looking asphalt layer below if you look closely at the side of the road: https://goo.gl/maps/iuZpchCvjFns4d1w6
That's great to know. When US-264 was upgraded to interstate standards, they did the same thing so I expect it to crumble in 5-10 years. The normal asphalt can still be seen on the shoulders.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.608748,-77.4589528,3a,50.3y,298.87h,67.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sngXkAtIcuqzMsIlZqtkOWQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
That appears to be open graded asphalt. It helps drain water away from the surface and is good for rainy areas. It's not used in the north where it would perform poorly in freeze/thaw cycles.
Even parts of I-40 in North Carolina going to Wilmington is like that too.
When this was resurfaced in 2020 or 2021, I wonder what type of asphalt they used for this. Because it's definitely not as dark as compared to US-264 in Pitt and Greene county lines. Is this just a temporary fix or what? It was listed in the pavement rehabilitation.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7026215,-77.9839546,3a,45.7y,295.96h,73.63t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sqHiech8NP3h7eJMjqE0Jmw!2e0!5s20211101T000000!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 17, 2022, 11:43:02 PM
When this was resurfaced in 2020 or 2021, I wonder what type of asphalt they used for this. Because it's definitely not as dark as compared to US-264 in Pitt and Greene county lines. Is this just a temporary fix or what? It was listed in the pavement rehabilitation.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7026215,-77.9839546,3a,45.7y,295.96h,73.63t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sqHiech8NP3h7eJMjqE0Jmw!2e0!5s20211101T000000!7i16384!8i8192
Probably just a different blend of asphalt. Sometimes if it's something really different, they may discuss it on their website.
Quote from: Tom958 on November 25, 2021, 06:08:43 AM
I prefer asphalt. Even when major rehab is required, it can be milled down rather than having to be ripped out down to the dirt and replaced as is done with concrete. Asphalt is more forgiving of imprecision in initial placement, too.
The life of a concrete highway can be extended for many years if "diamond graded" correctly.
I-70 around Rifle, Colorado has had a stretch of concrete that has been around for decades (might even be the original surface). About 15 years ago, they did a diamond grading on the existing surface to where it felt and sounded like it was brand new pavement.
Unfortunately, this particular section is on it's last legs as there are some areas with serious degradation that another round of diamond grading cannot fix.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 05, 2022, 06:51:36 PM
Quote from: Tom958 on November 25, 2021, 06:08:43 AM
I prefer asphalt. Even when major rehab is required, it can be milled down rather than having to be ripped out down to the dirt and replaced as is done with concrete. Asphalt is more forgiving of imprecision in initial placement, too.
The life of a concrete highway can be extended for many years if "diamond graded" correctly.
I-70 around Rifle, Colorado has had a stretch of concrete that has been around for decades (might even be the original surface). About 15 years ago, they did a diamond grading on the existing surface to where it felt and sounded like it was brand new pavement.
Unfortunately, this particular section is on it's last legs as there are some areas with serious degradation that another round of diamond grading cannot fix.
Arkansas has a program where they mill old concrete and it makes a huge difference, but the use of it has been sporadic. Most new construction outside of metro areas has been asphalt which is OK now, but in a few years will need resurfacing.
Definitely odd that the left lane has darker asphalt compared to the highway itself. Maybe they are not finished yet? Who knows though.
And if they purposely did that, then that's just lazy and stupid imo.
https://goo.gl/maps/VWy7d6ZkjgT2rj769
How about this one - alternating concrete and asphalt lanes.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6500876,-83.2382296,3a,75y,4.1h,78.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smqPGEFAI5e3B_4t-UPEvbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
Quote from: GaryV on February 14, 2022, 02:17:40 PM
How about this one - alternating concrete and asphalt lanes.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6500876,-83.2382296,3a,75y,4.1h,78.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smqPGEFAI5e3B_4t-UPEvbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
is it still under construction or did they purposely make it like that?
They milled and resurfaced the outer lanes with asphalt because the former concrete had deteriorated. The outer lanes tend to deteriorate more quickly than interior lanes due to heavy truck traffic.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on February 14, 2022, 05:13:31 PM
They milled and resurfaced the outer lanes with asphalt because the former concrete had deteriorated. The outer lanes tend to deteriorate more quickly than interior lanes due to heavy truck traffic.
Not just that; the left lanes are much newer.
I'm guessing this is NCDOT's new standard of resurfacing highways.
https://goo.gl/maps/XPBtEauR2BciphFB7
It's to make it look darker and look like this: https://goo.gl/maps/HTeDr9vkEg7q8fqi6
However that is terrible and needs resurfacing after lasting for about roughly 10 years.