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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 11:45:24 AM

Title: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 11:45:24 AM
Since control cities seem to be a hot topic, how about this?

What cities are controls for one route, but not another that passes through/nearby or otherwise serves it?

Two examples:

Evansville -- yes for I-69, no for I-64.

Wytheville -- yes for I-77, no for I-81.

(Former example: Dayton -- yes for I-75, formerly no for I-70).

The best examples would probably be found in places that serve as interstate crossroads, such as Cambridge, Ohio; Washington, Pa.; Statesville, NC; and the aforementioned Wytheville, Va.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 11:46:07 AM
Springfield: yes for I-91, sporadic for I-90
Syracuse: yes for I-81, no for I-90
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 11:48:52 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 11:45:24 AM
Wytheville -- yes for I-77, no for I-81.
I-81 uses Wytheville.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 11:50:03 AM
I-95 uses Richmond, skipping Petersburg, though I-85 uses Petersburg.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: SkyPesos on April 22, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
Lodi - yes for I-76, no for I-71  :bigass:

sry, just picking a low-hanging fruit in my state.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 12:20:02 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 11:46:07 AM
Syracuse: yes for I-81, no for I-90

Also, Corning:

Yes for US 15/I-99
Yes for I-390 (which doesn't even go to Corning)
No for I-86 (which does go to Corning, but uses Binghamton).
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 12:22:15 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 22, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
Lodi - yes for I-76, no for I-71

I know you're probably not being entirely serious, but I would argue that Lodi is the control for US 224, not I-76.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: Flint1979 on April 22, 2021, 12:35:34 PM
I-64 is to going through Evansville like I-80 is to going through Chicago and Cleveland.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 22, 2021, 12:37:39 PM
Both New Stanton & Breezewood: Yes for I-70, no for I-76 (with one exception (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2264654,-79.6099639,3a,75y,137.71h,90.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUZyWuHHvsOTZtddduQoamQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en))

Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 12:20:02 PM
Also, Corning:

Yes for US 15/I-99
Yes for I-390 (which doesn't even go to Corning)
No for I-86 (which does go to Corning, but uses Binghamton).


Corning is used for I-86 east (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.389174,-77.3864836,3a,75y,104.03h,89.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szkgtwxUHnySIHB8nImVnkg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) at I-390's southern terminus (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3918456,-77.3910875,3a,75y,132.19h,85.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saSWyy0Xo9XG57SSjibM6Xg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 22, 2021, 12:37:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 12:20:02 PM
Also, Corning:

Yes for US 15/I-99
Yes for I-390 (which doesn't even go to Corning)
No for I-86 (which does go to Corning, but uses Binghamton).


Corning is used for I-86 east (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.389174,-77.3864836,3a,75y,104.03h,89.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szkgtwxUHnySIHB8nImVnkg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) at I-390's southern terminus (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3918456,-77.3910875,3a,75y,132.19h,85.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saSWyy0Xo9XG57SSjibM6Xg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en).

Guilt by association with I-390  :-P

Binghamton is used almost (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3684584,-77.6748047,3a,75y,314.28h,83.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZMK1gUoSsRPKI1OOBBYNxQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) everywhere (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3251905,-77.7377871,3a,19.8y,300.48h,90.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sksOmzNpvv9P4IxS9ooAnxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) else (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1002975,-78.4277284,3a,75y,9.59h,90.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxJOzZeo6YEEx_Ot3hcDzUg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en). It's also on the bottom of the post-interchange mileage signs (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1002975,-78.4277284,3a,75y,9.59h,90.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxJOzZeo6YEEx_Ot3hcDzUg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: vdeane on April 22, 2021, 12:51:54 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 22, 2021, 12:37:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 12:20:02 PM
Also, Corning:

Yes for US 15/I-99
Yes for I-390 (which doesn't even go to Corning)
No for I-86 (which does go to Corning, but uses Binghamton).


Corning is used for I-86 east (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.389174,-77.3864836,3a,75y,104.03h,89.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szkgtwxUHnySIHB8nImVnkg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) at I-390's southern terminus (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3918456,-77.3910875,3a,75y,132.19h,85.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saSWyy0Xo9XG57SSjibM6Xg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en).

Guilt by association with I-390  :-P

Binghamton is used almost (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3684584,-77.6748047,3a,75y,314.28h,83.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZMK1gUoSsRPKI1OOBBYNxQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) everywhere (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3251905,-77.7377871,3a,19.8y,300.48h,90.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sksOmzNpvv9P4IxS9ooAnxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) else (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1002975,-78.4277284,3a,75y,9.59h,90.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxJOzZeo6YEEx_Ot3hcDzUg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en). It's also on the bottom of the post-interchange mileage signs (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1002975,-78.4277284,3a,75y,9.59h,90.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxJOzZeo6YEEx_Ot3hcDzUg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
It's also used from I-81 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1152278,-75.9045358,3a,75y,286.66h,96.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1gryZUtmQTpMukCPLi90ew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).  I think I remember someone mentioning at a meet there actually was a recent official change on what control cities are supposed to be signed going forward - Corning replaces Elmira, not sure what replaces Jamestown (Erie?).
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 22, 2021, 12:51:54 PM
It's also used from I-81 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1152278,-75.9045358,3a,75y,286.66h,96.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1gryZUtmQTpMukCPLi90ew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).  I think I remember someone mentioning at a meet there actually was a recent official change on what control cities are supposed to be signed going forward - Corning replaces Elmira, not sure what replaces Jamestown (Erie?).

Wow, I was so focused on eastbound that I forgot about westbound.

For consistency's sake, I'd support both of those changes. And I hope Erie does replace Jamestown, which was never particularly relevant.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: thspfc on April 22, 2021, 02:25:56 PM
Portage WI - control city for US-51, WI-16, and WI-33, but not for I-39.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 07:46:26 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 11:48:52 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 11:45:24 AM
Wytheville -- yes for I-77, no for I-81.
I-81 uses Wytheville.

Not in my experience. It's Roanoke and Bristol.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 07:46:26 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 11:48:52 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 11:45:24 AM
Wytheville -- yes for I-77, no for I-81.
I-81 uses Wytheville.

Not in my experience. It's Roanoke and Bristol.
I-81 is all over the place. Sometimes it's Roanoke and Bristol, other times it's intermediate towns, then sometimes Wytheville is used.

Here's an example - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9150287,-81.273432,3a,40.8y,18.06h,85.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIrYfHLwt_kjPFNJO8gkvMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

IMO it should just be solely Roanoke and Bristol, and nothing else. Even Bristol is questionable. Knoxville and Roanoke.

I like the fact Maryland uses "Roanoke" and skips over the intermediate sized cities (20,000 - 40,000 population), like Martinsburg, Winchester, Harrisonburg, Staunton, and focuses on a long-distance, more sizable city with a metro population of over 300,000. Far more of importance and recognition than those others, and certainly than the small towns.

Hell, if it's proper, go "Harrisburg" north of Roanoke, with the other cities (Staunton, Harrisonburg (that would be interesting), Winchester, Martinsburg, Hagerstown, Chambersburg) as "intermediate" control cities.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 10:02:06 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 07:46:26 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 11:48:52 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 11:45:24 AM
Wytheville -- yes for I-77, no for I-81.
I-81 uses Wytheville.

Not in my experience. It's Roanoke and Bristol.
I-81 is all over the place. Sometimes it's Roanoke and Bristol, other times it's intermediate towns, then sometimes Wytheville is used.

Here's an example - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9150287,-81.273432,3a,40.8y,18.06h,85.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIrYfHLwt_kjPFNJO8gkvMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

IMO it should just be solely Roanoke and Bristol, and nothing else. Even Bristol is questionable. Knoxville and Roanoke.

I like the fact Maryland uses "Roanoke" and skips over the intermediate sized cities (20,000 - 40,000 population), like Martinsburg, Winchester, Harrisonburg, Staunton, and focuses on a long-distance, more sizable city with a metro population of over 300,000. Far more of importance and recognition than those others, and certainly than the small towns.

Hell, if it's proper, go "Harrisburg" north of Roanoke, with the other cities (Staunton, Harrisonburg (that would be interesting), Winchester, Martinsburg, Hagerstown, Chambersburg) as "intermediate" control cities.
I like far-off control cities, but Harrisburg is a stretch. Maybe use Winchester or Harrisonburg north of Roanoke.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 10:14:33 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 10:02:06 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 07:46:26 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 11:48:52 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 11:45:24 AM
Wytheville -- yes for I-77, no for I-81.
I-81 uses Wytheville.

Not in my experience. It's Roanoke and Bristol.
I-81 is all over the place. Sometimes it's Roanoke and Bristol, other times it's intermediate towns, then sometimes Wytheville is used.

Here's an example - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9150287,-81.273432,3a,40.8y,18.06h,85.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIrYfHLwt_kjPFNJO8gkvMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

IMO it should just be solely Roanoke and Bristol, and nothing else. Even Bristol is questionable. Knoxville and Roanoke.

I like the fact Maryland uses "Roanoke" and skips over the intermediate sized cities (20,000 - 40,000 population), like Martinsburg, Winchester, Harrisonburg, Staunton, and focuses on a long-distance, more sizable city with a metro population of over 300,000. Far more of importance and recognition than those others, and certainly than the small towns.

Hell, if it's proper, go "Harrisburg" north of Roanoke, with the other cities (Staunton, Harrisonburg (that would be interesting), Winchester, Martinsburg, Hagerstown, Chambersburg) as "intermediate" control cities.
I like far-off control cities, but Harrisburg is a stretch. Maybe use Winchester or Harrisonburg north of Roanoke.
Maybe in that instance, a smaller control city could be appropriate. But who knows. They'll never change.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: CoreySamson on April 22, 2021, 10:17:00 PM
A couple state and US highway examples in Texas:

Brazoria: yes for TX-332, no for TX-36
Rosenberg: yes for TX-36, no for US 59
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: Dirt Roads on April 22, 2021, 10:30:31 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 08:50:53 PM
Hell, if it's proper, go "Harrisburg" north of Roanoke, with the other cities (Staunton, Harrisonburg (that would be interesting), Winchester, Martinsburg, Hagerstown, Chambersburg) as "intermediate" control cities.

Which brings up another example:  Lexington on I-64 eastbound, but not on I-81 northbound.  Can't remember about I-81 southbound, but the main control city is Roanoke.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 10:36:49 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 22, 2021, 10:30:31 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 08:50:53 PM
Hell, if it's proper, go "Harrisburg" north of Roanoke, with the other cities (Staunton, Harrisonburg (that would be interesting), Winchester, Martinsburg, Hagerstown, Chambersburg) as "intermediate" control cities.

Which brings up another example:  Lexington on I-64 eastbound, but not on I-81 northbound.  Can't remember about I-81 southbound, but the main control city is Roanoke.
In my opinion, Lexington should be replaced with Richmond or Charlottesville, but I can see why they use it.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 10:38:55 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 22, 2021, 10:30:31 PM
Lexington on I-64 eastbound, but not on I-81 northbound.
Yeah it is...

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3376041,-79.9947555,3a,47y,350.76h,88.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn9KAwLezDtdZCaaU5tLTUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3896523,-79.9008143,3a,45y,25.36h,84.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2fLVeuKDnHzD6adCXhA3Uw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: Occidental Tourist on April 23, 2021, 02:27:11 AM
Pomona, CA.  I-10 e/b no. CA 60 e/b yes.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: jp the roadgeek on April 23, 2021, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 22, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
Lodi - yes for I-76, no for I-71  :bigass:

sry, just picking a low-hanging fruit in my state.

This one is so low that it's in a bog:

Meriden - Yes for I-691, no for I-91

Another couple for MA, including one for Springfield:

Worcester - Yes for I-290/I-395, sporadic for I-90
Springfield - Yes for I-291, sporadic for I-90

A fun one:

New York: Yes for I-95.  As for I-80, yes in OH, no in PA, extremely sproradic in NJ.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: ilpt4u on April 23, 2021, 08:53:20 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 11:45:24 AM
Since control cities seem to be a hot topic, how about this?

What cities are controls for one route, but not another that passes through/nearby or otherwise serves it?

Two examples:

Evansville -- yes for I-69, no for I-64.
Late response to the OP: I thought I had seen I-64 with the "Evansville"  control posted. I know it is at the IL 1 exit near the Wabash River: https://goo.gl/maps/9Bm5TDxHq6s6ekkPA

I think IDOT uses it as the EB Secondary control between Mount Vernon and the Wabash River
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:04:18 PM
Rocky Mount - I-95 yes US-64 (future I-87) No.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: sprjus4 on April 24, 2021, 03:00:42 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:04:18 PM
Rocky Mount - I-95 yes US-64 (future I-87) No.
Rocky Mount is most definitely used on both US-64 and I-95.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: OldDominion75 on April 24, 2021, 01:45:09 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:04:18 PM
Rocky Mount - I-95 yes US-64 (future I-87) No.

Huh? Rocky Mount is the control point for US 64 in the Raleigh area and as far east as Tarboro. I know that it is referenced on a mileage sign east of Williamston. If you mean when I-87 is completed Hampton Roads BGSs should not use Rocky Mount as their choice of a control city, then I definitely agree.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: SkyPesos on April 24, 2021, 01:50:07 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on April 23, 2021, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 22, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
Lodi - yes for I-76, no for I-71  :bigass:

sry, just picking a low-hanging fruit in my state.

This one is so low that it's in a bog:

Meriden - Yes for I-691, no for I-91
If we're including 3dis too, then...

Clayton - yes for I-170, no for I-64
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: Mapmikey on April 24, 2021, 02:04:20 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 11:50:03 AM
I-95 uses Richmond, skipping Petersburg, though I-85 uses Petersburg.

I-95 uses Petersburg, examples:
https://goo.gl/maps/Eh37YrbA57bmQGkm6
https://goo.gl/maps/igN7d9NasNK7yh1f6
https://goo.gl/maps/nsHxCc5T7BEJ2HZN8
https://goo.gl/maps/mHP3z8CHdk7YpSJC9

Not many NB but at least a couple:
https://goo.gl/maps/Gf4pqnGLcDKMCA687
https://goo.gl/maps/iLXWFQAQX1iteJCS7
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: Angelo71 on April 24, 2021, 03:37:19 PM
I think Wytheville is important for I-77 as it breaks apart from I-81 and goes to WV from there, it doesn't really matter for I-81 anyways.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: sprjus4 on April 24, 2021, 06:13:40 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on April 24, 2021, 02:04:20 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 11:50:03 AM
I-95 uses Richmond, skipping Petersburg, though I-85 uses Petersburg.

I-95 uses Petersburg, examples:
https://goo.gl/maps/Eh37YrbA57bmQGkm6
https://goo.gl/maps/igN7d9NasNK7yh1f6
https://goo.gl/maps/nsHxCc5T7BEJ2HZN8
https://goo.gl/maps/mHP3z8CHdk7YpSJC9

Not many NB but at least a couple:
https://goo.gl/maps/Gf4pqnGLcDKMCA687
https://goo.gl/maps/iLXWFQAQX1iteJCS7
I suppose I should've specified I was referring to northbound.

It's used at that point since it's close as an intermediate control, I'll give you that, though mainly it's Richmond for I-95.

Compared to I-85 on the other hand, Petersburg is consistently used.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:17:07 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 23, 2021, 08:53:20 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 11:45:24 AM
Since control cities seem to be a hot topic, how about this?

What cities are controls for one route, but not another that passes through/nearby or otherwise serves it?

Two examples:

Evansville -- yes for I-69, no for I-64.
Late response to the OP: I thought I had seen I-64 with the "Evansville"  control posted. I know it is at the IL 1 exit near the Wabash River: https://goo.gl/maps/9Bm5TDxHq6s6ekkPA

I think IDOT uses it as the EB Secondary control between Mount Vernon and the Wabash River

Typical Illinois. They tend to use supplemental destinations on intersecting roads instead of the main control cities found at interstate-to-interstate interchanges.
Title: Re: Control city for one route, but not for the other
Post by: 3467 on April 24, 2021, 10:24:27 PM
80 which interchanges 88 has Chicago while 88 has Sterling. Later Chicago appears and in fact appears on on the mileage sign as 155 miles. It's 166 via 80.