Talking about mood and feelings going from one state line to another...
There is a huge difference from SC to GA along with GA to SC. Go on I-95 from well-maintained, 3 and even 4 lane wide I-95 through Georgia, to washboard quality 2 lanes the moment you take the Savannah River bridge into SC. Same on the Talmadge Bridge heading out of Savannah.
SC is so different also depending on what part of the state you're in. It feels like everything from about Brunswick, GA through Wilmington, NC is its own state. Savannah and Charleston are so much alike, and share a lot of things. It feels like home to me pretty much anywhere along that stretch.
Piggly Wiggly, which used to be our largest grocery store chain, had major presences in Savannah and Charleston, and the National Weather Service office for Charleston serves Savannah as well. Once you get west of I-95 though on I-26 things change pretty quick. You go from the flat land of the Lowcountry to hills pretty quick.
The Midlands of SC is in the middle with all the different changes in elevation and with flat + hilly areas.
Upstate SC feels like a different state. Most of the roads (especially in Greenville and Spartanburg) are well-maintained, and the accent is different, plus the barbecue. SC doesn't spend the money on the Lowcountry like they do the Upstate.
What are your thoughts about this?
There's a pretty dramatic change of scenery when you from NE Oklahoma (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9351773,-94.7086665,3a,75y,54.82h,94.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5-cKVrJIT87j4oSt6Nv57w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) to SW Missouri (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0200073,-94.5348135,3a,75y,44.21h,91.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKQrIA5Qe3R8sqJgWtP-RKA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) on I-44.
I-84 between Connecticut and NY turns from a 3 lane, well-lit, and well-maintained urban freeway immediately into a 2 lane, unlighted, and pretty inadequate rural freeway with terrible pavement quality.
I-95 turns from an older design 60s freeway with a 40 foot guardrail median into a large, 60-80 ft median upon entering North Carolina from Virginia.
And the opposite happens entering North Carolina from Virginia along I-85... wide forested median reduces to a 30 foot guardrail median.
The speed limit used to go from 70 mph to 65 mph on I-85 into NC, but that was increased a couple years ago, maintaining a consistent 70 mph from Petersburg to Durham.
Downtown St Louis skyline (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6249657,-90.2085228,3a,25.1y,83.9h,92.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqHhyfHgEbMsrMy6FxkHdSw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) vs the dump that is East St Louis (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6281913,-90.1615105,3a,41.4y,99.57h,89.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6db3JE5p4vZ-QN7TKv4Glg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) crossing from MO to IL on I-64 or I-55
Rural Vermont has noticeably better property upkeep and maintainance than Northern NY.
Ohio to Pennsylvania on I-76. The Ohio side looker safer and better maintained.
Quote from: Big John on May 02, 2021, 09:25:51 PM
Ohio to Pennsylvania on I-76. The Ohio side looker safer and better maintained.
I mean I-76 enters Southwestern PA which is just a sad area, and so that is why Ohio looks better.
Quote from: Angelo71 on May 02, 2021, 09:31:17 PM
Quote from: Big John on May 02, 2021, 09:25:51 PM
Ohio to Pennsylvania on I-76. The Ohio side looker safer and better maintained.
I mean I-76 enters Southwestern PA which is just a sad area, and so that is why Ohio looks better.
Eastern Ohio is equally sad if not more so. Ohio's DOT just does a bunch of things better, like signage and freeway widening projects.
Indiana to Michigan on I-94: median changes from a concrete barrier in Indiana to a grassy median in Michigan. Also, it was pretty bumpy leaving Michigan prior to the reconstruction of the SB lanes in 2019.
One more thing to add: when entering Michigan from Indiana, the time changes right away from CST to EST and vice versa...
Entering Washington from Oregon you immediately notice the road underneath you is a lot more quiet. WSDOT does a far superior job to highway maintenance than ODOT.
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2021, 09:49:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on May 02, 2021, 09:31:17 PM
Quote from: Big John on May 02, 2021, 09:25:51 PM
Ohio to Pennsylvania on I-76. The Ohio side looker safer and better maintained.
I mean I-76 enters Southwestern PA which is just a sad area, and so that is why Ohio looks better.
Eastern Ohio is equally sad if not more so. Ohio's DOT just does a bunch of things better, like signage and freeway widening projects.
FWIW, OTIC & PTC are the 2 agencies in question here (and the legacy of that road maintained by the 2nd one
might have something to do with how the road quickly narrows from a grass median to concrete barrier just before the state line ;-) )
A very similar state line to this one is I-83 leaving MD for PA - grassy median from MD quickly narrows to concrete barrier at the first PA overpass (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7236234,-76.6564249,3a,75y,327.43h,85.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sO-YeAa0rfisvMN-op13xZw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
I-70 entering Pennsylvania from Maryland.
70 mph to 55 mph, need I say more?
No actual change in roadway conditions however, rural interstate highway with a grass median on either side.
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2021, 09:10:12 PM
Rural Vermont has noticeably better property upkeep and maintainance than Northern NY.
The change in mood/feel between Vermont and NY may be one of the most profound anywhere. Certainly in the northeast. Driving through NY, it's hilly with small towns and roads that are not maintained in the greatest. The communities you drive through (and homes in them) are pretty average looking and not particularly scenic. Many are quite dumpy. And you could just as easily be in PA, NJ or parts of eastern OH as where you really are. Generic northeast.
As soon as you hit Vermont, you start getting into the Green Mountains, all of the towns have a colonial feel. It looks like "New England" in a way that upstate NY does not. The roads are better. Overall, it's far more scenic. That's not to say it's more prosperous; it's just that Vermont does a better job of hiding it's hippie trailer parks in the woods, down a side road, than New York does.
Specifically regarding roads, crossing from New Mexico into Colorado (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28300.0) there's a pretty stark difference.
Internationally, coming from Bolivia where it looks like this (https://vagabundodlt.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/img_2090.jpg) to immediately seeing a paved highway and regulation signs (https://ponchotours.com/images/tours/bolivia-chile/border-crossing.jpg) is pretty stark.
Chris
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 03, 2021, 12:05:57 PM
I-70 entering Pennsylvania from Maryland.
70 mph to 55 mph, need I say more?
No actual change in roadway conditions however, rural interstate highway with a grass median on either side.
I-70 in PA/MD from Hagerstown to Breezewood is so scenic and amazing.
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 03, 2021, 12:15:53 PM
Internationally, coming from Bolivia where it looks like this (https://vagabundodlt.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/img_2090.jpg) to immediately seeing a paved highway and regulation signs (https://ponchotours.com/images/tours/bolivia-chile/border-crossing.jpg) is pretty stark.
Chris
The thread is about state lines. International crossings are often (if not usually) very stark, which is why it's not the same thing. One need look no farther than any crossing between the USA and Quebec province. And, worldwide, even that's nothing. San Ysidro to Tijuana is like entering a different world - the third world.
I-40 crossing from TN into AR is pretty stark:
Tennessee: (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.15304,-90.0553045,3a,75y,127.65h,88.23t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1szF8CDp58VBqBZfF8jUkEoA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DzF8CDp58VBqBZfF8jUkEoA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D126.71983%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)
Arkansas: (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1531922,-90.0746465,3a,82.6y,273.17h,86.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sF16QSg7VQGYa9SgijdliGQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DF16QSg7VQGYa9SgijdliGQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D314.87274%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)
Entering Arkansas from Tennessee for the first time gave me a weird sense of desolation in Arkansas largely because of this.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 03, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2021, 09:10:12 PM
Rural Vermont has noticeably better property upkeep and maintainance than Northern NY.
The change in mood/feel between Vermont and NY may be one of the most profound anywhere. Certainly in the northeast. Driving through NY, it's hilly with small towns and roads that are not maintained in the greatest. The communities you drive through (and homes in them) are pretty average looking and not particularly scenic. Many are quite dumpy. And you could just as easily be in PA, NJ or parts of eastern OH as where you really are. Generic northeast.
As soon as you hit Vermont, you start getting into the Green Mountains, all of the towns have a colonial feel. It looks like "New England" in a way that upstate NY does not. The roads are better. Overall, it's far more scenic. That's not to say it's more prosperous; it's just that Vermont does a better job of hiding it's hippie trailer parks in the woods, down a side road, than New York does.
Wow, a thousand times this. Very well said, and I couldn't agree more. It's something you need to experience to understand, but I would absolutely put it among the most profound in the country.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 03, 2021, 12:25:00 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 03, 2021, 12:15:53 PM
Internationally, coming from Bolivia where it looks like this (https://vagabundodlt.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/img_2090.jpg) to immediately seeing a paved highway and regulation signs (https://ponchotours.com/images/tours/bolivia-chile/border-crossing.jpg) is pretty stark.
Chris
The thread is about state lines. International crossings are often (if not usually) very stark, which is why it's not the same thing. One need look no farther than any crossing between the USA and Quebec province. And, worldwide, even that's nothing. San Ysidro to Tijuana is like entering a different world - the third world.
To be a contrarian, I would say that the differences at the vast majority of borders in the world are not at all that stark. There are certain examples (U.S./Mexico, Haiti/D.R., Bolivia/Chile, Singapore/Malaysia, etc.) but in reality, most neighboring countries are probably more alike than they are different. Think you're going to see a huge difference between Slovenia and Croatia? El Salvador and Honduras? Togo and Benin? Not really.
Chris
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 03, 2021, 12:32:20 PM
I-40 crossing from TN into AR is pretty stark:
Tennessee: (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.15304,-90.0553045,3a,75y,127.65h,88.23t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1szF8CDp58VBqBZfF8jUkEoA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DzF8CDp58VBqBZfF8jUkEoA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D126.71983%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)
Arkansas: (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1531922,-90.0746465,3a,82.6y,273.17h,86.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sF16QSg7VQGYa9SgijdliGQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DF16QSg7VQGYa9SgijdliGQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D314.87274%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)
Entering Arkansas from Tennessee for the first time gave me a weird sense of desolation in Arkansas largely because of this.
To be honest, both of those scenes look pretty grisly... like a before and after in Bill Peet's "Wump World"... LOL! :-D
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 03, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2021, 09:10:12 PM
Rural Vermont has noticeably better property upkeep and maintainance than Northern NY.
The change in mood/feel between Vermont and NY may be one of the most profound anywhere. Certainly in the northeast. Driving through NY, it's hilly with small towns and roads that are not maintained in the greatest. The communities you drive through (and homes in them) are pretty average looking and not particularly scenic. Many are quite dumpy. And you could just as easily be in PA, NJ or parts of eastern OH as where you really are. Generic northeast.
As soon as you hit Vermont, you start getting into the Green Mountains, all of the towns have a colonial feel. It looks like "New England" in a way that upstate NY does not. The roads are better. Overall, it's far more scenic. That's not to say it's more prosperous; it's just that Vermont does a better job of hiding it's hippie trailer parks in the woods, down a side road, than New York does.
Nah. VT/NY just isn't that dramatic. Crossed that border many, many times.
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2021, 09:10:12 PM
Rural Vermont has noticeably better property upkeep and maintainance than Northern NY.
Notable exception: Pownal and North Pownal. Much more like New York to the west than Williamstown, Mass., to the south.
I-65 on either side of the Ohio River. 50 mph, asphalt, elevated, narrow 6 lane in through the skyscrapers of Louisville, KY versus 65 mph, on the ground, concrete, wide 8-12 lanes, flat and suburban Jeffersonville, IN
Crossing into Virginia from North Carolina on Interstate 77, there is a rapid geographic shift in feel, as the road becomes fully immersed in (and climbing up) the Blue Ridge Mountains right after entering the state, whereas before it was more hilly with views of mountains in the distance. Road-wise, crossing the state line doesn't bring a huge difference in road quality, but does in road feel, as it goes from a concrete road to an asphalt road with advisory-type lane markings (I forget what these are officially called, that are often used on interstates climbing hills and mountains, and in other advisory situations, such as high-risk fog areas such as Interstate 75 in Tennessee near the Hiwassee River). https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5615575,-80.7447048,3a,75y,353.59h,92.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sv8qRSbm31BgdgUaI-uvKTA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2021, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 03, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2021, 09:10:12 PM
Rural Vermont has noticeably better property upkeep and maintainance than Northern NY.
The change in mood/feel between Vermont and NY may be one of the most profound anywhere. Certainly in the northeast. Driving through NY, it's hilly with small towns and roads that are not maintained in the greatest. The communities you drive through (and homes in them) are pretty average looking and not particularly scenic. Many are quite dumpy. And you could just as easily be in PA, NJ or parts of eastern OH as where you really are. Generic northeast.
As soon as you hit Vermont, you start getting into the Green Mountains, all of the towns have a colonial feel. It looks like "New England" in a way that upstate NY does not. The roads are better. Overall, it's far more scenic. That's not to say it's more prosperous; it's just that Vermont does a better job of hiding it's hippie trailer parks in the woods, down a side road, than New York does.
Nah. VT/NY just isn't that dramatic. Crossed that border many, many times.
Been to 48 states and have lived in 10 from coast to coast, so I think that my perspective on this one is pretty objective. Nor am I a particular fan of VT (actually have family in NH - and we look down on VT). That said: of all the state border crossings I can think of, VT/NY is one of the largest changes. It is that different. The scenery changes because the Green Mountains begin pretty quickly after you cross the state line; but culturally and developmentally the two states are very different. And it's funny because NY doesn't seem bad as you drive in from the west, but then you cross the border and it's suddenly very beautiful. Conversely, driving from VT->NY is a huge letdown. And, I apply this to crossings I've made from Bennington to the Hoosick area, Fairhaven/Whitehall, etc. Pattern is always the same. Perhaps it wouldn't be so geographically stark farther north but Lake Champlain precludes the possibility of a land border and the architecture and cultural development are still very different.
California and Nevada used to have a hugely different mood (although the scenery doesn't tend to change at the border itself), because NV had gambling when nobody else did. And those stateline casinos had flamboyant neon signage, etc. But that's no longer true, as there is legalized gaming in CA (tribal casinos, etc) and the casino signage isn't what it used to be. So the cultural difference isn't quite as much as it used to be.
Anywhere on the Michigan - Ohio border from Lake Erie to west of Sylvania
I-35, going from Oklahoma into Texas. Suddenly there are frontage roads, and there are exits every mile or two.
Quote from: tigerwings on May 04, 2021, 04:24:23 PM
Anywhere on the Michigan - Ohio border from Lake Erie to west of Sylvania
Just about anywhere leaving Michigan is an instant pavement improvement.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 04, 2021, 01:14:22 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2021, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 03, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2021, 09:10:12 PM
Rural Vermont has noticeably better property upkeep and maintainance than Northern NY.
The change in mood/feel between Vermont and NY may be one of the most profound anywhere. Certainly in the northeast. Driving through NY, it's hilly with small towns and roads that are not maintained in the greatest. The communities you drive through (and homes in them) are pretty average looking and not particularly scenic. Many are quite dumpy. And you could just as easily be in PA, NJ or parts of eastern OH as where you really are. Generic northeast.
As soon as you hit Vermont, you start getting into the Green Mountains, all of the towns have a colonial feel. It looks like "New England" in a way that upstate NY does not. The roads are better. Overall, it's far more scenic. That's not to say it's more prosperous; it's just that Vermont does a better job of hiding it's hippie trailer parks in the woods, down a side road, than New York does.
Nah. VT/NY just isn't that dramatic. Crossed that border many, many times.
Been to 48 states and have lived in 10 from coast to coast, so I think that my perspective on this one is pretty objective.
Oh ho ho, look at you. What rubbish.
Well, I've been to 49 states, I'll have you know. And, I have lived in 9 states and Russia. So, get off your high horse.
Objective? You started blabbing about beauty and whatnot, which is the definition of subjective.
Which also means, you are still wrong. Heck, MT to WY has more contrast then VT-NY.
Quote from: tigerwings on May 04, 2021, 04:24:23 PM
Anywhere on the Michigan - Ohio border from Lake Erie to west of Sylvania
The roads are enormous differences between the roads in MI and OH as well as IN and OH. I travel between those three states the most. Michigan had great roads, but they've deteriorated immensely. Indiana has always had pretty cruddy roads, and they continue to live up to that low standard. The trash accumulates along roads in those states, their DoTs don't seem to sweep the highways much at all. Ohio spends about twice per capita on roads what Michigan does, and probably a similar difference with Indiana. Ohio roads, at least where I am in the northwest, are in excellent condition, from interstates, state and federal routes to country roads. Debris is quickly removed and the freeway shoulders are frequently swept clean. There are exceptions, mostly along less traveled city streets in Toledo.
Quote from: westerninterloper on May 04, 2021, 11:26:54 PM
Quote from: tigerwings on May 04, 2021, 04:24:23 PM
Anywhere on the Michigan - Ohio border from Lake Erie to west of Sylvania
The roads are enormous differences between the roads in MI and OH as well as IN and OH. I travel between those three states the most. Michigan had great roads, but they've deteriorated immensely. Indiana has always had pretty cruddy roads, and they continue to live up to that low standard. The trash accumulates along roads in those states, their DoTs don't seem to sweep the highways much at all. Ohio spends about twice per capita on roads what Michigan does, and probably a similar difference with Indiana. Ohio roads, at least where I am in the northwest, are in excellent condition, from interstates, state and federal routes to country roads. Debris is quickly removed and the freeway shoulders are frequently swept clean. There are exceptions, mostly along less traveled city streets in Toledo.
Ohio's freeway quality is generally good in recent years. The state repaved a bunch of freeways, at least in Cincinnati and Columbus, and the rural stretch of I-71 between those two cities. Indiana has been improving too. I drove on I-74 between Cincy and Indy last month, and the road quality was so smooth that I was questioning if I was even in Indiana.
Illinois takes the cake for bad road quality imo.
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 04, 2021, 01:14:22 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2021, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 03, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2021, 09:10:12 PM
Rural Vermont has noticeably better property upkeep and maintainance than Northern NY.
The change in mood/feel between Vermont and NY may be one of the most profound anywhere. Certainly in the northeast. Driving through NY, it's hilly with small towns and roads that are not maintained in the greatest. The communities you drive through (and homes in them) are pretty average looking and not particularly scenic. Many are quite dumpy. And you could just as easily be in PA, NJ or parts of eastern OH as where you really are. Generic northeast.
As soon as you hit Vermont, you start getting into the Green Mountains, all of the towns have a colonial feel. It looks like "New England" in a way that upstate NY does not. The roads are better. Overall, it's far more scenic. That's not to say it's more prosperous; it's just that Vermont does a better job of hiding it's hippie trailer parks in the woods, down a side road, than New York does.
Nah. VT/NY just isn't that dramatic. Crossed that border many, many times.
Been to 48 states and have lived in 10 from coast to coast, so I think that my perspective on this one is pretty objective.
Oh ho ho, look at you. What rubbish.
Well, I've been to 49 states, I'll have you know. And, I have lived in 9 states and Russia. So, get off your high horse.
Objective? You started blabbing about beauty and whatnot, which is the definition of subjective.
Which also means, you are still wrong. Heck, MT to WY has more contrast then VT-NY.
VT is a dramatic change from all the states around it. Come at me.
I walked across the Purple People Bridge tonight and didn't feel any difference between Ohio and Kentucky.
I-95 SB from MA to RI.
Quote from: MinecraftNinja on May 04, 2021, 11:50:04 PM
I-95 SB from MA to RI.
Yes, the speed limit drops from 65 to 55 immediately.
Going into NC on VA/NC-86 from Danville. As soon as you cross into NC, you're in the boonies. Going the other way, civilization pops up out of nowhere as soon as you cross the VA state line.
On NC-86, there ain't jackshit between Danville and Yanceyville, and between Yanceyville and Hillsborough.
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
You started blabbing about beauty and whatnot, which is the definition of subjective.
Which also means, you are still wrong. Heck, MT to WY has more contrast then VT-NY.
To be fair, this is about
mood/feel, which makes sense for VT-NY since many of the changes aren't necessarily tangible, like scenery. Vermont does have a much more prosperous and colonial mood/feel, while NY has the dumpy and redneck vibes. It's not just about the scenery: You can even notice the difference just from looking at the houses and the way people maintain their properties.
Quote from: webny99 on May 05, 2021, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
You started blabbing about beauty and whatnot, which is the definition of subjective.
Which also means, you are still wrong. Heck, MT to WY has more contrast then VT-NY.
To be fair, this is about mood/feel, which makes sense for VT-NY since many of the changes aren't necessarily tangible, like scenery. Vermont does have a much more prosperous and colonial mood/feel, while NY has the dumpy and redneck vibes. It's not just about the scenery: You can even notice the difference just from looking at the houses and the way people maintain their properties.
I still think a whole lot of other borders are more dramatic in that sense. Perhaps there is some selection bias going on since VT's borders are probably more frequently crossed by members of this group than others, particularly out west.
And, because this is all quite subjective, everybody is simultaneously correct and wrong. :D
Quote from: Rothman on May 05, 2021, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 05, 2021, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
You started blabbing about beauty and whatnot, which is the definition of subjective.
Which also means, you are still wrong. Heck, MT to WY has more contrast then VT-NY.
To be fair, this is about mood/feel, which makes sense for VT-NY since many of the changes aren't necessarily tangible, like scenery. Vermont does have a much more prosperous and colonial mood/feel, while NY has the dumpy and redneck vibes. It's not just about the scenery: You can even notice the difference just from looking at the houses and the way people maintain their properties.
I still think a whole lot of other borders are more dramatic in that sense. Perhaps there is some selection bias going on since VT's borders are probably more frequently crossed by members of this group than others, particularly out west.
And, because this is all quite subjective, everybody is simultaneously correct and wrong. :D
Yes, and the fact that many of the western states are so sparsely populated that you might not see any homes or people for miles doesn't help their case.
Quote from: webny99 on May 05, 2021, 10:17:12 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 05, 2021, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 05, 2021, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
You started blabbing about beauty and whatnot, which is the definition of subjective.
Which also means, you are still wrong. Heck, MT to WY has more contrast then VT-NY.
To be fair, this is about mood/feel, which makes sense for VT-NY since many of the changes aren't necessarily tangible, like scenery. Vermont does have a much more prosperous and colonial mood/feel, while NY has the dumpy and redneck vibes. It's not just about the scenery: You can even notice the difference just from looking at the houses and the way people maintain their properties.
I still think a whole lot of other borders are more dramatic in that sense. Perhaps there is some selection bias going on since VT's borders are probably more frequently crossed by members of this group than others, particularly out west.
And, because this is all quite subjective, everybody is simultaneously correct and wrong. :D
Yes, and the fact that many of the western states are so sparsely populated that you might not see any homes or people for miles doesn't help their case.
Just thought of CO/AZ (cutting through NM on US 160). That's a pretty stark jump.
Jumping the border between Iowa and Wisconsin on US-61/US-151 is a stark difference, going between the rolling hills of the Driftless Area in Southwest Wisconsin into the urban feel of Dubuque in Iowa. And then just as quickly, if you stay on US-61/US-151, you'll be right back into open lands again.
US-20 with Illinois is kind of similar, but much more gradual of a difference thanks to East Dubuque.
I notice a difference when crossing from Texas into Coahuila.
Quote from: Rothman on May 05, 2021, 10:30:04 AM
Just thought of CO/AZ (cutting through NM on US 160). That's a pretty stark jump.
Meh, I’ve done that and I don’t think there’s all that much of a difference. If you go all the way up to Cortez, maybe, but most of that southwest part of 160 is in the Ute Mountain reservation and feels pretty similar to the Navajo reservation in NM/AZ.
If you asked me the one thing I remembered about 160 in Colorado west of 491, my answer would be all the beer bottles and various other broken glass and trash along the sides of the road. Unfortunately, that sort of describes what most roads in the area feel like in my experience (other than that CO and AZ do a much better job maintaining the actual pavement than NM does).
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 04, 2021, 01:14:22 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2021, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 03, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2021, 09:10:12 PM
Rural Vermont has noticeably better property upkeep and maintainance than Northern NY.
The change in mood/feel between Vermont and NY may be one of the most profound anywhere. Certainly in the northeast. Driving through NY, it's hilly with small towns and roads that are not maintained in the greatest. The communities you drive through (and homes in them) are pretty average looking and not particularly scenic. Many are quite dumpy. And you could just as easily be in PA, NJ or parts of eastern OH as where you really are. Generic northeast.
As soon as you hit Vermont, you start getting into the Green Mountains, all of the towns have a colonial feel. It looks like "New England" in a way that upstate NY does not. The roads are better. Overall, it's far more scenic. That's not to say it's more prosperous; it's just that Vermont does a better job of hiding it's hippie trailer parks in the woods, down a side road, than New York does.
Nah. VT/NY just isn't that dramatic. Crossed that border many, many times.
Been to 48 states and have lived in 10 from coast to coast, so I think that my perspective on this one is pretty objective.
Oh ho ho, look at you. What rubbish.
Well, I've been to 49 states, I'll have you know. And, I have lived in 9 states and Russia. So, get off your high horse.
Objective? You started blabbing about beauty and whatnot, which is the definition of subjective.
Which also means, you are still wrong. Heck, MT to WY has more contrast then VT-NY.
Disagree on every single count. And your bias is that you appear to be a New Yorker. Sorry, but your state isn't as pretty as New England. Not even close. The Green Mountains have colonial towns, and bucolic farmland; the Catskills have dumpy midcentury diners and motels, communes and ugly trailer camps. But you can salve your snowflake feelings in the knowledge that it's more scenic that Illinois.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 05, 2021, 11:41:59 AM
it's more scenic that Illinois.
I (https://goo.gl/maps/NhVtQmCVW1bsAFKV6)
rather (https://goo.gl/maps/2yM9ijB8CbyAn2b69)
enjoy (https://goo.gl/maps/hE2JBZbfq2811Vzy6)
Illinois (https://goo.gl/maps/b8tJ7menfZDkyiJ37)
scenery (https://goo.gl/maps/BjMeUrevCZ2aD3Kw8).
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 05, 2021, 11:41:59 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2021, 11:19:24 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 04, 2021, 01:14:22 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2021, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on May 03, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2021, 09:10:12 PM
Rural Vermont has noticeably better property upkeep and maintainance than Northern NY.
The change in mood/feel between Vermont and NY may be one of the most profound anywhere. Certainly in the northeast. Driving through NY, it's hilly with small towns and roads that are not maintained in the greatest. The communities you drive through (and homes in them) are pretty average looking and not particularly scenic. Many are quite dumpy. And you could just as easily be in PA, NJ or parts of eastern OH as where you really are. Generic northeast.
As soon as you hit Vermont, you start getting into the Green Mountains, all of the towns have a colonial feel. It looks like "New England" in a way that upstate NY does not. The roads are better. Overall, it's far more scenic. That's not to say it's more prosperous; it's just that Vermont does a better job of hiding it's hippie trailer parks in the woods, down a side road, than New York does.
Nah. VT/NY just isn't that dramatic. Crossed that border many, many times.
Been to 48 states and have lived in 10 from coast to coast, so I think that my perspective on this one is pretty objective.
Oh ho ho, look at you. What rubbish.
Well, I've been to 49 states, I'll have you know. And, I have lived in 9 states and Russia. So, get off your high horse.
Objective? You started blabbing about beauty and whatnot, which is the definition of subjective.
Which also means, you are still wrong. Heck, MT to WY has more contrast then VT-NY.
Disagree on every single count. And your bias is that you appear to be a New Yorker. Sorry, but your state isn't as pretty as New England. Not even close. The Green Mountains have colonial towns, and bucolic farmland; the Catskills have dumpy midcentury diners and motels, communes and ugly trailer camps. But you can salve your snowflake feelings in the knowledge that it's more scenic that Illinois.
Hit a nerve there, did I? Made you pull out the big snowflake guns on that one. :D
I don't care if NY is as pretty as New England (I grew up in western MA). We're talking about contrast.
Are we talking about highway features? Many people here seem to be bringing that up.
The two crossings with which I was most familiar growing up were I-64 into West Virginia and I-75 into Tennessee. Neither were dramatic. Road design was similar and the terrain was as well.
Sometimes border crossings involving streams can seem to be more stark, especially if the body of water is wide.
But to me, changes seem to be more attitudinal than anything else. I don't get any particularly different "feels" when crossing from Kentucky into West Virginia or Virginia. However, crossing the Ohio River into Ohio, Indiana, or Illinois gives the feeling that I"m leaving the south (even though Kentucky isn't really southern) and entering the midwest. Tennessee is truly more southern than Kentucky, but I don't really get the vibe that I'm entering the south. I do, however, acutely perceive that everything is going to cost more in Tennessee because of their outrageous sales taxes.
I don't think you can set someone down along the border of Kentucky and Tennessee, without signage, and them be able to discern there are two different states. Similarly, if you were on the banks of one of the forks of the Big Sandy River below Louisa, you wouldn't know if you were on the border of Kentucky and West Virginia, or merely on one side or the other of a fork that's entirely in Kentucky.
I would argue that crossing the border between California and Nevada on I-80 is a pretty stark difference. On the California side, you have the steep high-elevation mountain pass that you begin climbing just east of the state line, as you pass through boreal forests. On the Nevada side, you are in range-and-basin country and a wide-open desert.
3 miles East of the state line in Nevada: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5142228,-119.9842203,3a,75y,94.71h,92.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKO0rjezEicpmVCXWLeAJfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Similar distance West of the state line in California:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4422238,-120.013181,3a,75y,228.09h,91.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Ol7HIjF4KiIMrHlazY_HQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 04:47:43 PM
I would argue that crossing the border between California and Nevada on I-80 is a pretty stark difference. On the California side, you have the steep high-elevation mountain pass that you begin climbing just east of the state line, as you pass through boreal forests. On the Nevada side, you are in range-and-basin wide-open country desert.
3 miles East of the state line in Nevada: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5142228,-119.9842203,3a,75y,94.71h,92.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKO0rjezEicpmVCXWLeAJfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Similar distance West of the state line in California:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4422238,-120.013181,3a,75y,228.09h,91.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Ol7HIjF4KiIMrHlazY_HQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I'm going to guess that the mountain range was made the state border.
Another one that is very noticeable: NC to SC on I-26. Go from the mountains of the Green River Gorge, Hendersonville, Saluda, and high hills almost immediately into the Piedmont of SC above Spartanburg.
The temperature often goes up 10+ degrees in the summer when you go down those hills into South Carolina. It often gets colder by the same amount going up into NC in the winter.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 04:47:43 PM
I would argue that crossing the border between California and Nevada on I-80 is a pretty stark difference. On the California side, you have the steep high-elevation mountain pass that you begin climbing just east of the state line, as you pass through boreal forests. On the Nevada side, you are in range-and-basin wide-open country desert.
3 miles East of the state line in Nevada: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5142228,-119.9842203,3a,75y,94.71h,92.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKO0rjezEicpmVCXWLeAJfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Similar distance West of the state line in California:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4422238,-120.013181,3a,75y,228.09h,91.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Ol7HIjF4KiIMrHlazY_HQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I'm going to guess that the mountain range was made the state border.
Absolutely. Or, more precisely, the state border was drawn to include the entire mountain range, rather than the typical arrangement where a border follows the ridge line or basin divide. Why? GOLD!
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 05:17:48 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 04:47:43 PM
I would argue that crossing the border between California and Nevada on I-80 is a pretty stark difference. On the California side, you have the steep high-elevation mountain pass that you begin climbing just east of the state line, as you pass through boreal forests. On the Nevada side, you are in range-and-basin wide-open country desert.
3 miles East of the state line in Nevada: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5142228,-119.9842203,3a,75y,94.71h,92.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKO0rjezEicpmVCXWLeAJfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Similar distance West of the state line in California:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4422238,-120.013181,3a,75y,228.09h,91.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Ol7HIjF4KiIMrHlazY_HQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I'm going to guess that the mountain range was made the state border.
Absolutely. Or, more precisely, the state border was drawn to include the entire mountain range, rather than the typical arrangement where a border follows the ridge line or basin divide. Why? GOLD!
The actual definition of the California-Nevada border is a straight line from the point where the Colorado River intersects the 35th parallel, northwest to the intersection of the 39th parallel and 120th meridian, then north along the 120th meridian to the 42nd parallel (which happens to be the Oregon border).
Quote from: US 89 on May 05, 2021, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 05:17:48 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 04:47:43 PM
I would argue that crossing the border between California and Nevada on I-80 is a pretty stark difference. On the California side, you have the steep high-elevation mountain pass that you begin climbing just east of the state line, as you pass through boreal forests. On the Nevada side, you are in range-and-basin wide-open country desert.
3 miles East of the state line in Nevada: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5142228,-119.9842203,3a,75y,94.71h,92.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKO0rjezEicpmVCXWLeAJfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Similar distance West of the state line in California:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4422238,-120.013181,3a,75y,228.09h,91.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Ol7HIjF4KiIMrHlazY_HQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I'm going to guess that the mountain range was made the state border.
Absolutely. Or, more precisely, the state border was drawn to include the entire mountain range, rather than the typical arrangement where a border follows the ridge line or basin divide. Why? GOLD!
The actual definition of the California-Nevada border is a straight line from the point where the Colorado River intersects the 35th parallel, northwest to the intersection of the 39th parallel and 120th meridian, then north along the 120th meridian to the 42nd parallel (which happens to be the Oregon border).
That reminds me of a good show that aired on History years ago called "How the States Got Their Shape".
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 06:52:50 PM
Quote from: US 89 on May 05, 2021, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 05:17:48 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 04:47:43 PM
I would argue that crossing the border between California and Nevada on I-80 is a pretty stark difference. On the California side, you have the steep high-elevation mountain pass that you begin climbing just east of the state line, as you pass through boreal forests. On the Nevada side, you are in range-and-basin wide-open country desert.
3 miles East of the state line in Nevada: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5142228,-119.9842203,3a,75y,94.71h,92.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKO0rjezEicpmVCXWLeAJfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Similar distance West of the state line in California:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4422238,-120.013181,3a,75y,228.09h,91.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Ol7HIjF4KiIMrHlazY_HQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I'm going to guess that the mountain range was made the state border.
Absolutely. Or, more precisely, the state border was drawn to include the entire mountain range, rather than the typical arrangement where a border follows the ridge line or basin divide. Why? GOLD!
The actual definition of the California-Nevada border is a straight line from the point where the Colorado River intersects the 35th parallel, northwest to the intersection of the 39th parallel and 120th meridian, then north along the 120th meridian to the 42nd parallel (which happens to be the Oregon border).
That reminds me of a good show that aired on History years ago called "How the States Got Their Shape".
I remember learning in history class that when they set out to survey the actual border, the surveyor had a bit of a challenge because the junction of the 120th meridian and 39th parallel happens to be in Lake Tahoe. He had to create sight lines around the lake to establish the correct point. I have had fun with GPS while boating on Lake Tahoe trying to get my boat to that precise point, just to say that I had been there.
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 06:52:50 PM
Quote from: US 89 on May 05, 2021, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 05:17:48 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 04:47:43 PM
I would argue that crossing the border between California and Nevada on I-80 is a pretty stark difference. On the California side, you have the steep high-elevation mountain pass that you begin climbing just east of the state line, as you pass through boreal forests. On the Nevada side, you are in range-and-basin wide-open country desert.
3 miles East of the state line in Nevada: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5142228,-119.9842203,3a,75y,94.71h,92.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKO0rjezEicpmVCXWLeAJfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Similar distance West of the state line in California:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4422238,-120.013181,3a,75y,228.09h,91.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Ol7HIjF4KiIMrHlazY_HQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I'm going to guess that the mountain range was made the state border.
Absolutely. Or, more precisely, the state border was drawn to include the entire mountain range, rather than the typical arrangement where a border follows the ridge line or basin divide. Why? GOLD!
The actual definition of the California-Nevada border is a straight line from the point where the Colorado River intersects the 35th parallel, northwest to the intersection of the 39th parallel and 120th meridian, then north along the 120th meridian to the 42nd parallel (which happens to be the Oregon border).
That reminds me of a good show that aired on History years ago called "How the States Got Their Shape".
I remember learning in history class that when they set out to survey the actual border, the surveyor had a bit of a challenge because the junction of the 120th meridian and 39th parallel happens to be in Lake Tahoe. He had to create sight lines around the lake to establish the correct point. I have had fun with GPS while boating on Lake Tahoe trying to get my boat to that precise point, just to say that I had been there.
Oh that's really cool! Sounds like a fun challenge using a GPS.
Any interstate from any state into Pennsylvania. The ROW narrows considerably, the pavement quality degrades, and the sign count goes up (but not as much as PA to NY on the Thruway). This is most noticeable on I-90 Ohio to PA or I-81 New York to PA.
While the basic scenery is the same, crossing the CA/OR state line on I-5 is a mood-altering experience: NB relief, as you're now off 1960's-era concrete that is cracking and has been extensively patched to relatively new asphalt; coming back south -- if one knows it's there -- the opposite occurs, and you're gritting your teeth as you approach the state line sign knowing you're in for a bumpy ride! Not so much over on US 97 -- two-lane asphalt on both sides; while back in the '80's the CA side was quite distressed in terms of pavement, it's since been overlaid and/or rebuilt a couple of times, so while the OR stretch of US 97 seems to be a more "modern" road (considerably wider shoulders, straighter alignment), but at least to me, there's little difference in pavement quality. Nevertheless, in summer months I've always been in a better mood NB, because I'm leaving 100-degree Redding weather behind!
On my vacation to the District of Columbia, traveling with others, I landed at Ronald Regan, but was taken in a rental car to the hotel in D.C. Later in the week I took the Metro to the first stop on the Virginia side. I got to the surface and saw the Robert E. Lee Highway. I knew I was in a different world. I only walked for a few blocks in Virginia before I crossed back on the Francis Scott Key Bridge.
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 07, 2021, 11:49:56 PM
On my vacation to the District of Columbia, traveling with others, I landed at Ronald Regan, but was taken in a rental car to the hotel in D.C. Later in the week I took the Metro to the first stop on the Virginia side. I got to the surface and saw the Robert E. Lee Highway. I knew I was in a different world. I only walked for a few blocks in Virginia before I crossed back on the Francis Scott Key Bridge.
Northern Virginia is very liberal, highway name is probably an old relic.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 11:55:25 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 07, 2021, 11:49:56 PM
On my vacation to the District of Columbia, traveling with others, I landed at Ronald Regan, but was taken in a rental car to the hotel in D.C. Later in the week I took the Metro to the first stop on the Virginia side. I got to the surface and saw the Robert E. Lee Highway. I knew I was in a different world. I only walked for a few blocks in Virginia before I crossed back on the Francis Scott Key Bridge.
Northern Virginia is very liberal, highway name is probably an old relic.
Agreed, I'm surprised it hasn't been changed.
Northern Virginia is definitely
not anywhere close to conservative.
Quote from: LM117 on May 05, 2021, 08:18:35 AM
Going into NC on VA/NC-86 from Danville. As soon as you cross into NC, you're in the boonies. Going the other way, civilization pops up out of nowhere as soon as you cross the VA state line.
On NC-86, there ain't jackshit between Danville and Yanceyville, and between Yanceyville and Hillsborough.
The road gets much nicer in NC though. 86 from the state line to Hillsborough is an excellent drive.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 07:22:58 PM
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 07:10:19 PM
I remember learning in history class that when they set out to survey the actual border, the surveyor had a bit of a challenge because the junction of the 120th meridian and 39th parallel happens to be in Lake Tahoe. He had to create sight lines around the lake to establish the correct point. I have had fun with GPS while boating on Lake Tahoe trying to get my boat to that precise point, just to say that I had been there.
Oh that's really cool! Sounds like a fun challenge using a GPS.
Or better yet, WITHOUT a GPS thing....
Anyways, my stark 'Difference in mood/feel while crossing state line' is crossing between Wisconsin and Michigan - there is a very definite change in the 'feel' of the landscape between the two. Michigan has the overall depressing, run-down look and feel of a long-term major decline and negative attitude while Wisconsin has a much more prosperous, optimistic and inviting aura to it. I feel sad and depressed driving around on the Michigan side of the line.
Mike
Quote from: sparker on May 05, 2021, 09:03:56 PM
While the basic scenery is the same, crossing the CA/OR state line on I-5 is a mood-altering experience: NB relief, as you're now off 1960's-era concrete that is cracking and has been extensively patched to relatively new asphalt; coming back south -- if one knows it's there -- the opposite occurs, and you're gritting your teeth as you approach the state line sign knowing you're in for a bumpy ride! Not so much over on US 97 -- two-lane asphalt on both sides; while back in the '80's the CA side was quite distressed in terms of pavement, it's since been overlaid and/or rebuilt a couple of times, so while the OR stretch of US 97 seems to be a more "modern" road (considerably wider shoulders, straighter alignment), but at least to me, there's little difference in pavement quality. Nevertheless, in summer months I've always been in a better mood NB, because I'm leaving 100-degree Redding weather behind!
Well you may be permanently relieved to hear that the California side of I-5 was in the process of being repaved when I passed through in the Fall of 2019! There's still a transition from asphalt to concrete though, but it looks like the Oregon side is concrete, not California. Photos in both directions below.
Northbound:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51192884970_c48d29a6f7_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kZJVaL)
Southbound:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51191102082_9e0167455c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kZzMbj)
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 11:55:25 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 07, 2021, 11:49:56 PM
On my vacation to the District of Columbia, traveling with others, I landed at Ronald Regan, but was taken in a rental car to the hotel in D.C. Later in the week I took the Metro to the first stop on the Virginia side. I got to the surface and saw the Robert E. Lee Highway. I knew I was in a different world. I only walked for a few blocks in Virginia before I crossed back on the Francis Scott Key Bridge.
Northern Virginia is very liberal, highway name is probably an old relic.
Road names for heroes of the Confederacy are being removed from streets and roads and other things in Northern Virginia. I do not think the Lee name is long for what has traditionally been the name for most of U.S. 29 between Warrenton and the Key Bridge.
Same for Jefferson Davis - his name was on much of U.S. 1 and VA-110 in several Northern Virginia jurisdictions but is now going away.
Quote from: jdbx on May 05, 2021, 04:47:43 PM
I would argue that crossing the border between California and Nevada on I-80 is a pretty stark difference. On the California side, you have the steep high-elevation mountain pass that you begin climbing just east of the state line, as you pass through boreal forests. On the Nevada side, you are in range-and-basin country and a wide-open desert.
3 miles East of the state line in Nevada: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5142228,-119.9842203,3a,75y,94.71h,92.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKO0rjezEicpmVCXWLeAJfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Similar distance West of the state line in California:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4422238,-120.013181,3a,75y,228.09h,91.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Ol7HIjF4KiIMrHlazY_HQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I've been waiting for someone to mention this one.
When I was 11 years old in 1967, we took a "National Lampoon's Vacation" trip across the country to visit relatives in San Buenaventura, CA (better known to most as Ventura). It was a fascinating time to do so, as it was nearing the peak of Interstate construction, and I was just old enough to remember & appreciate everything along the voyage across 3/4 of this country from NE Indiana to SoCal. One of the most memorable moments was, after driving all day from Salt Lake City across the salt flats of Utah and the northern high deserts of Nevada, was to round that bend west of Reno in the Truckee Canyon, see the "Entering California" sign on I-80, and see the landscape immediately turn from brown to green. My mom, dad, and I all noticed this and commented on it.
Years later, I thought that memory might have been a bit inaccurate, clouded by time, but upon visiting friends in Reno a few years back, I took a day trip to retrace our route and lo-and-behold it's still true (in spite of recent severe drought). Kinda figures those old-timers knew what they were doing in drawing the border where they did! They went to the start of the "Sierra rain shadow" where the green stopped and the brown began and placed the state line there (and all without satellite or aerial photos).
Quote from: machias on May 05, 2021, 08:02:00 PM
Any interstate from any state into Pennsylvania. The ROW narrows considerably, the pavement quality degrades, and the sign count goes up (but not as much as PA to NY on the Thruway). This is most noticeable on I-90 Ohio to PA or I-81 New York to PA.
What do you mean "the sign count goes
up" (emphasis added)? I've always found PA highways to be some of the poorest marked in the USA. Lack of advanced warning for major junctions, what signs they did put in placed in poorly visible locations, et cetera. Now granted, I haven't been back to the Keystone State in quite some time, so they may have improved some over the interim.
Quote from: Sctvhound on May 02, 2021, 07:21:06 PM
Talking about mood and feelings going from one state line to another...
There is a huge difference from SC to GA along with GA to SC. Go on I-95 from well-maintained, 3 and even 4 lane wide I-95 through Georgia, to washboard quality 2 lanes the moment you take the Savannah River bridge into SC. Same on the Talmadge Bridge heading out of Savannah.
SC is so different also depending on what part of the state you're in. It feels like everything from about Brunswick, GA through Wilmington, NC is its own state. Savannah and Charleston are so much alike, and share a lot of things. It feels like home to me pretty much anywhere along that stretch.
Piggly Wiggly, which used to be our largest grocery store chain, had major presences in Savannah and Charleston, and the National Weather Service office for Charleston serves Savannah as well. Once you get west of I-95 though on I-26 things change pretty quick. You go from the flat land of the Lowcountry to hills pretty quick.
The Midlands of SC is in the middle with all the different changes in elevation and with flat + hilly areas.
Upstate SC feels like a different state. Most of the roads (especially in Greenville and Spartanburg) are well-maintained, and the accent is different, plus the barbecue. SC doesn't spend the money on the Lowcountry like they do the Upstate.
What are your thoughts about this?
I always get excited when I cross from Texas to New Mexico.
Back to what you were talking about Georgia to South Carolina, makes me think of driving from Las Cruces to El Paso on I-10. I-10 south of Las Cruces in New Mexico is a 6-lane freeway, where in Texas from the state line until about Woodrow Bean Transmountain Road its a 4-lane freeway (I really don't know why the Texas part isn't 6 lanes). This makes me think of another scenario that might be a child of this thread: When an interstate crosses state lines, and the two states don't have the same amount of lanes on the freeway, where does the transition take place. In the above scenario, the transition happens on the New Mexico side, where you lose the outside lane in Anthony, NM (or gain the lane in the opposite direction). I have seen the inverse I know, but I can't think of any examples at this moment.
I-81 at the Virginia / Tennessee border is similar... I-81 is 6 lanes on the Virginia side, and upon entering Tennessee (though it goes for about a mile), it drops to 4 lanes.
The only part of I-81 in the entire state of Virginia, besides the I-77 overlap and various "climbing" 3 lane sections, that's a true 6 lane design.
I-65 drops from 6 lanes to 4 lanes crossing from Kentucky into Tennessee... Kentucky has widened their entire portion between Tennessee and Indiana to 6 lanes, whereas Tennessee has done very little outside the Nashville metro.
I think the mood changes drastically from a roadgeek standpoint from any state entering California, and vise-versa. The oddball quirks of California signage (50+ year-old signs still rockin, lots of green-outs, different interstate shields plus drastically different US Highway shields, general overall non-MUTCD conformity in signage and lack of state wide FHWA mile posts) plus drastic-ish landscape (Arizona desert and California desert aren't that different, but about 2 hours later the landscape is completely different) plus signage conventions not seen anywhere else in the US. Then when you visit for a week, and enter one of the bordering states, and you get back to the way the other 49 states sign their roads and design them, you get knocked back down to reality.
I-15 from AZ into UT goes from undeveloped mostly govt-owned desert scrub right into massive new developments that literally bump up against the state line in re-booming St. George.
Quote from: Kniwt on May 26, 2021, 08:44:46 PM
I-15 from AZ into UT goes from undeveloped mostly govt-owned desert scrub right into massive new developments that literally bump up against the state line in re-booming St. George.
Will the St. George development ever spill into Arizona?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 26, 2021, 09:26:13 PM
Quote from: Kniwt on May 26, 2021, 08:44:46 PM
I-15 from AZ into UT goes from undeveloped mostly govt-owned desert scrub right into massive new developments that literally bump up against the state line in re-booming St. George.
Will the St. George development ever spill into Arizona?
Extremely unlikely due to the BLM ownership on the AZ side, not to mention any type of local government services or even basic infrastructure except for I-15 in that part of vast, vast Mohave County.
More likely that we'll see more development in the Littlefield and Beaver Dam area. With the new services at Exit 9, some additional economic activity is springing up.
Quote from: Kniwt on May 26, 2021, 09:38:21 PM
Extremely unlikely due to the BLM ownership on the AZ side, not to mention any type of local government services or even basic infrastructure except for I-15 in that part of vast, vast Mohave County.
More likely that we'll see more development in the Littlefield and Beaver Dam area. With the new services at Exit 9, some additional economic activity is springing up.
I wonder if there will ever be talk of splitting Mohave County down the Colorado River if there's enough growth in the Beaver Dam and Littlefield areas. I can't imagine the people down in Kingman (the county seat) care too much about what goes on north of the Grand Canyon. Hell, it takes 3 hours to drive from Kingman to Littlefield... and a majority of that is in Nevada.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 05, 2021, 03:53:26 PM
Are we talking about highway features? Many people here seem to be bringing that up.
The two crossings with which I was most familiar growing up were I-64 into West Virginia and I-75 into Tennessee. Neither were dramatic. Road design was similar and the terrain was as well.
Sometimes border crossings involving streams can seem to be more stark, especially if the body of water is wide.
But to me, changes seem to be more attitudinal than anything else. I don't get any particularly different "feels" when crossing from Kentucky into West Virginia or Virginia. However, crossing the Ohio River into Ohio, Indiana, or Illinois gives the feeling that I"m leaving the south (even though Kentucky isn't really southern) and entering the midwest. Tennessee is truly more southern than Kentucky, but I don't really get the vibe that I'm entering the south. I do, however, acutely perceive that everything is going to cost more in Tennessee because of their outrageous sales taxes.
I don't think you can set someone down along the border of Kentucky and Tennessee, without signage, and them be able to discern there are two different states. Similarly, if you were on the banks of one of the forks of the Big Sandy River below Louisa, you wouldn't know if you were on the border of Kentucky and West Virginia, or merely on one side or the other of a fork that's entirely in Kentucky.
I kind of of disagree with the differences between Kentucky and Tennessee. I think you can notice the differences if you use the 4 digit KY highways more so. Kentucky still seems to have more farmland. It seems like more of the land is farmed and the grass is a little different. The grass looks a little greener (literally) and it seems like there are more tree clumps on the Tennessee side. On the Kentucky side it seems like more of the land is farmed and there are more desolate areas between towns. Tennesseans seem to use the land a little different especially in Middle Tennessee. It seems like there are more homes scattered about on acreage between the towns.
Quote from: US 89 on May 27, 2021, 01:11:05 AM
Quote from: Kniwt on May 26, 2021, 09:38:21 PM
Extremely unlikely due to the BLM ownership on the AZ side, not to mention any type of local government services or even basic infrastructure except for I-15 in that part of vast, vast Mohave County.
More likely that we'll see more development in the Littlefield and Beaver Dam area. With the new services at Exit 9, some additional economic activity is springing up.
I wonder if there will ever be talk of splitting Mohave County down the Colorado River if there's enough growth in the Beaver Dam and Littlefield areas. I can't imagine the people down in Kingman (the county seat) care too much about what goes on north of the Grand Canyon. Hell, it takes 3 hours to drive from Kingman to Littlefield... and a majority of that is in Nevada.
That's crazy. That'd be like me driving to the Mackinac Bridge.
There is a difference crossing over from TN into VA. There are so many signs prohibiting activities as soon as you enter in VA. Your are quickly reminded that the state in VA has more control and more laws just from the signage alone.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 27, 2021, 11:22:13 AM
There is a difference crossing over from TN into VA. There are so many signs prohibiting activities as soon as you enter in VA. Your are quickly reminded that the state in VA has more control and more laws just from the signage alone.
Like immediately you are told you can't have a radar detector.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on May 27, 2021, 12:36:08 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 27, 2021, 11:22:13 AM
There is a difference crossing over from TN into VA. There are so many signs prohibiting activities as soon as you enter in VA. Your are quickly reminded that the state in VA has more control and more laws just from the signage alone.
Like immediately you are told you can't have a radar detector.
Yes, this. You get the feeling of entering a heavy-handed jurisdiction that really doesn't want you going faster than arbitrarily-set limits.